Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day

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Topic:	Science > Abortion
User:	"J Young"
Date:	15 Feb 2006 12:27:05 AM
Object:	Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day

Further proof that virtue and decency is being embraced by a larger portion
of society's young, and growing stronger every day. Keep up the good work
kids!
http://www.christianpost.com/article/society/2257/section/teens.promote.purity.on.valentines.day/1.htm
Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day
Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2006 Posted: 12:08:23PM EST
Teens and youth will stand up for sexual purity today on Valentine's Day by
taking part in the third annual Day of Purity, organizing events to
encourage their churches, organizations or community to take part.
The national event, which will involve hundreds, was organized by the
Liberty Counsel, a conservative Christian legal firm based in Orlando, Fla.
Youths will participate in various outreach activities to spread the message
of abstinence before marriage
--
"Honesty, Integrity, Compassion, and Decency"
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	27 Feb 2006 04:09:51 AM

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4401f0c3$0$58082$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Jeff North" <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:646rv1954n47d2kt2di4403c70i35g1jv8@4ax.com...

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:13:58 -0800, in alt.politics.homosexuality
"Dutch" <no@email.com>
<11vr2n53d0pj9a4@news.supernews.com> wrote:

is not a legal entity

False, anyone who causes an unborn child to be killed is guilty of
homicide
in this country.

That's a falsehood. Abortion is widely legal.

You didn't finish reading what I said, idiot.

The mother, with the consent of a doctor, *may* be an
exception to this law

What "law", pro-liar? Cite the actual law.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=187-199
See 187. (a) for the statute that defines the killing of a fetus as murder.
See 187. (b) for the exception, a theraputic abortion
To my knowledge most state laws are structured this way. The issue is NOT
whether or not the fetus is a human, bearing a right to protection under the
law, that NEVER has been an issue. The issue is whether or not the mother
has an overriding right to deny the fetus her body. THAT is what Roe v Wade
granted to women.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	27 Feb 2006 03:29:52 PM

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4401f0c3$0$58082$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Jeff North" <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:646rv1954n47d2kt2di4403c70i35g1jv8@4ax.com...

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:13:58 -0800, in alt.politics.homosexuality
"Dutch" <no@email.com>
<11vr2n53d0pj9a4@news.supernews.com> wrote:

is not a legal entity

False, anyone who causes an unborn child to be killed is guilty of
homicide
in this country.

That's a falsehood. Abortion is widely legal.

You didn't finish reading what I said, idiot.

Then you shouldn't have started off with a lie.

The mother, with the consent of a doctor, *may* be an
exception to this law

What "law", pro-liar? Cite the actual law.

Thus refuting your claim. It is not true that "anyone" who kills a
fetus is guilty of homicide. It's not defined as homicide at all, and
it's not even murder for an abortion.

To my knowledge most state laws are structured this way.

It is obvious that your knowledge is extremly limited.

The issue is NOT
whether or not the fetus is a human, bearing a right to protection under the
law, that NEVER has been an issue. The issue is whether or not the mother
has an overriding right to deny the fetus her body. THAT is what Roe v Wade
granted to women.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	23 Feb 2006 02:46:19 AM

On 23 Feb 2006 05:48:14 GMT,

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <

> wrote in message

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote

3. Regarding that INANE "killing of human lives" argument...

I agree, let's just make murder legal... it'd make life so much
easier.

There you go again, proving

Whatever is convenient is what C Chilton advocates, so why not infanticide
Chilton, what's the essential difference between infanticide and abortion?

Anybody who doesn't know the difference between infanticide and
abortion either has to be insane with hate or so contempuous of women
that he doesn't even see their existance.

It should be easy then, what's the difference?

Infants have all been born.

You ignorant piece of dog *****! Have you no knowledge about what is
happening in the world outside your trailer park?:
"December 18, 2004
Lisa M. Montgomery Kills Woman And Steals Baby From Womb
Maryville, Mo. - A Kansas woman posing as a dog lover strangled a
pregnant Missouri dog breeder to death, then cut open her womb and
stole her baby, federal authorities said Friday night.
After authorities found the baby in good health Friday, they called
off the search launched in several states, including Iowa, after
Bobbie Jo Stinnett, 23, was found dead in her Skidmore, Mo., home
Thursday.
After a 23-hour hunt, an anonymous tipster and a computer expert led
authorities to the baby girl, who was expected to be reunited with her
father, northwest Missouri sheriff's officials and the FBI said.
Lisa M. Montgomery, 36, of Melvern, Kan., who had previously been
pregnant herself but lost her baby under unknown circumstances, was
charged with kidnapping resulting in death, said Todd Graves, U.S.
attorney for Missouri's Western District. The federal charge carries a
penalty of death or life in prison without parole.
The dead woman's mother, Becky Harper, found Stinnett, who was eight
months pregnant with her first child, strangled inside the home on Elm
Street in Skidmore about 3 p.m. Thursday, authorities said.
Skidmore, population 320, is about 30 miles south of Clarinda, Ia.
Nodaway County Sheriff Ben Espey said it appeared that Stinnett was
killed no more than an hour before her mother discovered the gruesome
scene and that Stinnett may have struggled with her killer. Blond hair
was found in Stinnett's hands, court records state.
An Elm Street neighbor, Christopher Law, reported seeing a 1980s or
1990s red, two-door hatchback, possibly a Honda, in the driveway of
the Stinnetts' home around the time of the murder.
Missouri sheriff's officials at 12:30 a.m. Friday issued an Amber
Alert, a system to notify the public of missing children, and asked
residents of Missouri, Iowa, Kansas and other states to look for the
car or someone seeking medical help for a newborn.
Court records show Montgomery had contacted Stinnett through an online
message board under the guise of buying one of her rat terriers.
Stinnett and her husband, Zeb, sold the dogs through a Web site.
A computer analysis by investigators found Montgomery had used a
fictitious name to e-mail Stinnett for directions, records show.
After slaying Stinnett, Montgomery drove to Topeka, Kan., where she
telephoned her husband, Kevin, and told him she'd delivered a baby at
a women's birthing center, the affidavit states.
Working from a tip from an anonymous person who heard the Amber Alert,
law enforcement officers found a red Toyota Corolla in Montgomery's
driveway in Melvern, and a newborn girl in her possession inside,
court records show.
Montgomery then confessed to strangling Stinnett, cutting open her
abdomen to remove the fetus, and lying to her husband, the affidavit
states.
The baby was taken to a Topeka hospital for medical care and DNA
testing, authorities said.
Stinnett's mother, Becky Harper, who works at the Sumy Oil Co. gas
station in Skidmore, told police she was on the phone with Stinnett
when someone arrived at her daughter's door to see the dogs. Zeb
Stinnett was at work at Kawasaki Motors Manufacturing in Maryville at
the time, authorities said.
Harper and Zeb's mother, Patty Smith of Maitland, Mo., declined to
comment Friday.
The minister who married Bobbie Jo and Zeb a couple of summers ago
will officiate at her funeral service.
"They were just a nice young couple," said the Rev. Harold Hammon of
Skidmore Christian Church. "They weren't at all rowdy or anything.
They just worked and did their own thing."
Hammon offered words of comfort Friday to Bobbie Jo's relatives.
"Everyone's pretty well stunned by everything," Hammon said. "The only
one who can figure this one out is God. You can't explain it. You
can't understand it. The funeral is going to be a tough one."
Townspeople kept their eyes open for red Hondas Friday and tried to
remember where they'd seen that kind of car Thursday, said City Clerk
Tracy Shewey.
"It's kind of mind-blowing and just kind of, 'Wow, why is this
happening?' " Shewey said.
Shewey saw the emergency vehicles heading to the Stinnetts' small
white house Thursday and worried the woman had had a premature
delivery. "She's just really a nice gal," Shewey said.
By Friday evening, messages of sympathy and support were pouring onto
the family's terrier Web site.
"And we thought the Scott Peterson tragedy was abhorrent - this
unspeakable evil has no boundaries," one person wrote. "I pray for
your family that you will be reunited with your daughter soon, and
that your wife, God rest her soul, can look down forever and watch her
daughter grow up to be a beautiful person.""

Infants have all been born.

You call being cut from the womb with a butcher knife, being "born",
***** wipe?
You are, without doubt, the scummiest excuse for a human being I have
ever had the displeasure of communicating with. I can only hope that
someone will do the human family a favor and remove your sorry *****
from it's midst -- SOON.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	23 Feb 2006 11:46:43 AM

<Default@xxx.org> wrote:

On 23 Feb 2006 05:48:14 GMT,

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <

> wrote in message

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote

3. Regarding that INANE "killing of human lives" argument...

I agree, let's just make murder legal... it'd make life so much
easier.

There you go again, proving

Whatever is convenient is what C Chilton advocates, so why not infanticide
Chilton, what's the essential difference between infanticide and abortion?

Anybody who doesn't know the difference between infanticide and
abortion either has to be insane with hate or so contempuous of women
that he doesn't even see their existance.

It should be easy then, what's the difference?

Infants have all been born.

You ignorant piece of dog *****! Have you no knowledge about what is

The "logic" of the anti-choice fanatic.

happening in the world outside your trailer park?:

"December 18, 2004

Lisa M. Montgomery Kills Woman And Steals Baby From Womb

At least she didn't get an abortion, right?
--
Ray Fischer

User: "Robibnikoff"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	23 Feb 2006 11:40:05 AM

<Default@xxx.org> wrote in message
news:kosqv1ltg09a5nl76inru54vmpajugh9f7@4ax.com...
snip

You call being cut from the womb with a butcher knife, being "born",
***** wipe?

So, infants that are removed from the womb via a C-section aren't "born"?
Who would have thought.

You are, without doubt, the scummiest excuse for a human being I have
ever had the displeasure of communicating with. I can only hope that
someone will do the human family a favor and remove your sorry *****
from it's midst -- SOON.

Who pissed in your Cheerios, junior?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
.

User: "Bernard Hubbard"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	26 Feb 2006 01:09:52 AM

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:46:19 GMT,

wrote:

On 23 Feb 2006 05:48:14 GMT,

(Ray Fischer) wrote:

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <

> wrote in message

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote

3. Regarding that INANE "killing of human lives" argument...

I agree, let's just make murder legal... it'd make life so much
easier.

There you go again, proving

Whatever is convenient is what C Chilton advocates, so why not infanticide
Chilton, what's the essential difference between infanticide and abortion?

Anybody who doesn't know the difference between infanticide and
abortion either has to be insane with hate or so contempuous of women
that he doesn't even see their existance.

It should be easy then, what's the difference?

Infants have all been born.

You ignorant piece of dog *****! Have you no knowledge about what is
happening in the world outside your trailer park?:

"December 18, 2004

Lisa M. Montgomery Kills Woman And Steals Baby From Womb

Maryville, Mo. - A Kansas woman posing as a dog lover strangled a
pregnant Missouri dog breeder to death, then cut open her womb and
stole her baby, federal authorities said Friday night.

After authorities found the baby in good health Friday, they called
off the search launched in several states, including Iowa, after
Bobbie Jo Stinnett, 23, was found dead in her Skidmore, Mo., home
Thursday.

After a 23-hour hunt, an anonymous tipster and a computer expert led
authorities to the baby girl, who was expected to be reunited with her
father, northwest Missouri sheriff's officials and the FBI said.

Lisa M. Montgomery, 36, of Melvern, Kan., who had previously been
pregnant herself but lost her baby under unknown circumstances, was
charged with kidnapping resulting in death, said Todd Graves, U.S.
attorney for Missouri's Western District. The federal charge carries a
penalty of death or life in prison without parole.

The dead woman's mother, Becky Harper, found Stinnett, who was eight
months pregnant with her first child, strangled inside the home on Elm
Street in Skidmore about 3 p.m. Thursday, authorities said.

Skidmore, population 320, is about 30 miles south of Clarinda, Ia.

Nodaway County Sheriff Ben Espey said it appeared that Stinnett was
killed no more than an hour before her mother discovered the gruesome
scene and that Stinnett may have struggled with her killer. Blond hair
was found in Stinnett's hands, court records state.

An Elm Street neighbor, Christopher Law, reported seeing a 1980s or
1990s red, two-door hatchback, possibly a Honda, in the driveway of
the Stinnetts' home around the time of the murder.

Missouri sheriff's officials at 12:30 a.m. Friday issued an Amber
Alert, a system to notify the public of missing children, and asked
residents of Missouri, Iowa, Kansas and other states to look for the
car or someone seeking medical help for a newborn.

Court records show Montgomery had contacted Stinnett through an online
message board under the guise of buying one of her rat terriers.
Stinnett and her husband, Zeb, sold the dogs through a Web site.

A computer analysis by investigators found Montgomery had used a
fictitious name to e-mail Stinnett for directions, records show.

After slaying Stinnett, Montgomery drove to Topeka, Kan., where she
telephoned her husband, Kevin, and told him she'd delivered a baby at
a women's birthing center, the affidavit states.

Working from a tip from an anonymous person who heard the Amber Alert,
law enforcement officers found a red Toyota Corolla in Montgomery's
driveway in Melvern, and a newborn girl in her possession inside,
court records show.

Montgomery then confessed to strangling Stinnett, cutting open her
abdomen to remove the fetus, and lying to her husband, the affidavit
states.

The baby was taken to a Topeka hospital for medical care and DNA
testing, authorities said.

Stinnett's mother, Becky Harper, who works at the Sumy Oil Co. gas
station in Skidmore, told police she was on the phone with Stinnett
when someone arrived at her daughter's door to see the dogs. Zeb
Stinnett was at work at Kawasaki Motors Manufacturing in Maryville at
the time, authorities said.

Harper and Zeb's mother, Patty Smith of Maitland, Mo., declined to
comment Friday.

The minister who married Bobbie Jo and Zeb a couple of summers ago
will officiate at her funeral service.

"They were just a nice young couple," said the Rev. Harold Hammon of
Skidmore Christian Church. "They weren't at all rowdy or anything.
They just worked and did their own thing."

Hammon offered words of comfort Friday to Bobbie Jo's relatives.

"Everyone's pretty well stunned by everything," Hammon said. "The only
one who can figure this one out is God. You can't explain it. You
can't understand it. The funeral is going to be a tough one."

Townspeople kept their eyes open for red Hondas Friday and tried to
remember where they'd seen that kind of car Thursday, said City Clerk
Tracy Shewey.

"It's kind of mind-blowing and just kind of, 'Wow, why is this
happening?' " Shewey said.

Shewey saw the emergency vehicles heading to the Stinnetts' small
white house Thursday and worried the woman had had a premature
delivery. "She's just really a nice gal," Shewey said.

By Friday evening, messages of sympathy and support were pouring onto
the family's terrier Web site.

"And we thought the Scott Peterson tragedy was abhorrent - this
unspeakable evil has no boundaries," one person wrote. "I pray for
your family that you will be reunited with your daughter soon, and
that your wife, God rest her soul, can look down forever and watch her
daughter grow up to be a beautiful person.""

Infants have all been born.

You call being cut from the womb with a butcher knife, being "born",
***** wipe?

You are, without doubt, the scummiest excuse for a human being I have
ever had the displeasure of communicating with. I can only hope that
someone will do the human family a favor and remove your sorry *****
from it's midst -- SOON.

Don't you realize that the perp in this case was a crazed
heterosexual. So why did you post this in a gay newsgroup? Were you
hoping that it would portray gay people in a bad light? Thought so
you spineless *****. BTW Billy-boy it's time to wash your socks
again. They smell of toe jam.
--
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus
handicapped."~Elbert Hubbard to quote a relative of mine.
Bernard Hubbard
.

User: "Craig Chilton"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	18 Feb 2006 02:31:47 AM

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:19:29 -0800,
"Dutch" <Anonymous@COWARD> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote

[ ... ]

3. Regarding that INANE "killing of human lives" argument...

I agree, let's just make murder legal... it'd make life so much
easier.

There you go again, proving proving you are to DOLTISH to be able
to distinguish between mere reproductive process entities and PEOPLE.

Whatever is convenient is what C Chilton advocate...

Wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with convenience, as long as
accessing it does no harm to any other PEOPLE or their property.
Mere reproductive-process entities are NOT even remotely people,
and even the Bible makes that quite clear, and *never* defends them as
such. Abortion is a harmless, and hugely-*beneficial* REMEDY. And it'is
here to STAY. Worldwide. Forevermore.
As I told you before, the ONLY time that a fetus is defended in the
Bible is in Ex. 21:20-25. As PROPERTY. In a passage that *condones
SLAVERY*.

...so why not infanticide, Chilton?

PERSONHOOD **begins** at BIRTH, dummy!!
You are FAR from being she sharpest tool in the shed. An ANVIL is
sharper that you. On its BLUNT end.
But keep on posting. I love to see you assist in the destruction
of your own loathsome agenda against human rights and personal
liberties, by helping society to become more aware of just *how*
IDIOTIC you Anti-Choicers/RRR Cult lemmings are.

... Are you aware that more than a QUADRILLION of those are
terminated DAILY, worldwide... by MEN? The elective abortion
of that many Stage One entities of the reproductive process.
Gametes. ALL of which... JUST like the Stage 2, 3, and 4 entities
(zygotes, embryoes, and fetuses)... are human, *potential*
people, unique, and *alive*. (LOL!!! So much for that lying
garbage spewed by Anti-Choicers that "life begins at fertiliza-
tion." They need to have a look at a sperm. DEAD sperm don't
have tails that wriggle!)

-- Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
The Abject IGNORANCE of the Anti-Choicers...
...is excellently spotlighted by Ray Fischer in this exchange:
"Sneechres" wrote:
"You are SOOOO sure that an unborn baby isn't a human being."
To which Ray astutely responded:
"That's because I can read and can educate myself. I know that
for thousands of years human societies have placed the start of a
person's life at birth. Occasionally later. Not earlier.
"You're such an arrogant moron that you don't even know what
'human being' MEANS. You think you can just fart an opinion and
expect everyone to bow down and worship it."
-- Feb. 18, 2002
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	18 Feb 2006 03:00:50 AM

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:19:29 -0800,
"Dutch" <Anonymous@COWARD> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote

[ ... ]

3. Regarding that INANE "killing of human lives" argument...

I agree, let's just make murder legal... it'd make life so much
easier.

There you go again, proving proving you are to DOLTISH to be able
to distinguish between mere reproductive process entities and PEOPLE.

Whatever is convenient is what C Chilton advocate...

Wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with convenience, as long as
accessing it does no harm to any other PEOPLE or their property.

Fetuses ARE people. Every person began as one, no person exists who was NOT
one once. No human fetus has ever become ANYTHING BUT a person.

Mere reproductive-process entities are NOT even remotely people,

That is a LIE. Fetuses ARE people, even if not recognized in every religion,
custom or law, they ARE unique, complete people in an early developmental
stage in every meaningful way. Stop lying about that. Go ahead and believe
that it's right and proper and beneficial to allow women to have abortions
when they need them, I even agree with that, but don't lie about what it is,
that's just wrong. It's the lying that I can't tolerate. Maybe society is
better off if we kill off unwanted babies, I can't argue that, but lets call
a spade a spade.
.

User: "Craig Chilton"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	18 Feb 2006 10:00:13 AM

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 01:00:50 -0800,
"Dutch" <Anonymous@COWARD> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote:

"Dutch" <Anonymous@COWARD> wrote:

Craig Chilton <

> wrote

[ ... ]

3. Regarding that INANE "killing of human lives" argument...

I agree, let's just make murder legal... it'd make life so much
easier.

There you go again, proving proving you are to DOLTISH to be able
to distinguish between mere reproductive process entities and PEOPLE.

Whatever is convenient is what C Chilton advocate...

Wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with convenience, as long as
accessing it does no harm to any other PEOPLE or their property.

Fetuses ARE people.

NOT according to the Bible, which never, *ever* defends them as
such. Even though it defends *people* throughout. Ex. 21:20-25 is
the ONLY passage in the Bible that defends one *at all* -- and then
ONLY as *property*. And then, to show how much *more* idiotic your
stance is... it's a passage that **condones SLAVERY."" ---
First off, the person being DEFENDED by those verses clearly is
the WOMAN. (There's no suggestion that her FETUS be removed
and evaluated for injuries, so that the appropriate penalties of "an
eye for an eye" or "a tooth for a tooth" can properly be imposed.)
Next -- I LOVE it when Anti-Choicers draw upon that passage,
because it would be hard to come up with one that could be used
as a BETTER example of just how UNlikely it is that the Bible would
go to the extent of defending g/z/e/fs! (For the sake of brevity,
I'll use only the NIV in my responses.) Here's why. Turn to the verses
IMMEDIATELY *before* the ones you cited, in the SAME passage:
Ex. 21:20-21...
20 -- If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the
slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished,
21 -- but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a
day or two, since the slave is his property.
Here we see the Bible treating:
A. An already-human being as mere PROPERTY.
B. It can be either a MALE or a FEMALE
C. There is NO penalty to the assailant if death doesn't occur.
D. If death DOES occur, the penalty is UNSPECIFIED.
So let's consider THIS scenario: A 13-year-old girl (or it could
be a boy) suddenly and inexplicably provokes the wrath of her owner, who
takes a rod and violently THRASHES her mercilessly to within a millimeter
of her life, and leaves her lying in a senseless and unconscious bloody
heap in the middle of a dusty road. She lies there in abject agony, mixed
with periods of unconsciousness, for two days and nights. Then, 47
hours, 59 minutes and 59 seconds after the beating, she manages to
struggle to her feet and struggle off, crippled and maimed, teeth broken
off, arm broken, and with an eye put out. The penalty to her owner for
having inflicted such horrendous, unconscionable and cruel damage?
NONE!!
Or she DIES. What is her owner's penalty THEN? It's unspecified.
For all we know, it could be 3 lashes on the back of his hand by a
fellow slave owner, wielding a wet noodle.
Given all of this, the notion that the Bible would be concerned with
mere reproductive-process entities becomes totally LUDICROUS.
Fetuses are no more people than acorns are oak trees.
You are one of the biggest JOKES in Usenet, "Dutch."

Every person began as one, ...

Nope. Every person passed through that stage *before* BECOMING
a person. Just as they passed through Stage One as a pair of Stage
One entities (gametes) that had not yet combined.
You know. The *potential* people (just as the other 3 stages are
only *potential* people; 70% of *them* spontaneously abort/miscarry)
that are being **electively aborted** at the rate of a **quadrillion**
per day, worldwide... by men... while Anti-Choice HYPOCRITES like you
look the other way and whistle a tune. CLUE: **Just** like the entities
of the other three stages, gametes *also* are human, unique, and
LIVING *potential* people.

...no person exists who was NOT one once. No human fetus has
ever become ANYTHING BUT a person.

Wrong. No fetus has ever BEEN a person. Ever. But most Stage
Four reproductive-process entities (fetuses) go on to BECOME people.
At the moment they CEASE being fetuses and become people: BIRTH.

Mere reproductive-process entities are NOT even remotely people,
and even the Bible makes that quite clear, and *never* defends them as
such. Abortion is a harmless, and hugely-*beneficial* REMEDY. And it'is
here to STAY. Worldwide. Forevermore.

That is a LIE. Fetuses ARE people,...

Only to loons like you who go around wearing tinfoil hats with antennae
-- either literally or figuratively. (LOL!!! *What* a tool.)
No wonder the RRR Cult is America's National Laughingstock, since it's
comprised of barn-owl loony nitwits like you.

...even if not recognized in every religion, custom or law, they ARE
unique, complete people in an early developmental stage in every mean-
ingful way.

Wrong. They are unique, complete reproductive-process entities which
are **potential** people. SOME of which go on to *become* people (at
birth) while MOST of them miscarry during the 2nd and 3rd stages (zygotes
and embryoes) -- usually before the woman even knows she's gotten pregnant.

Stop lying about that.

I **never** lie in my posts. But there's a LOT of lying going on here.
ALL of it on *your* part. No surprise, though. Having NO FACTS on their
side to support their loathsome agenda against women even in *existence*,
WITHOUG lying like rugs, RRR cultists wouldn't even HAVE an agenda. They
*depend* upon their dishonesty to CON bone-ignorant people like you into
falling for their sociopathic hate-propaganda. You are living proof that
such morons CAN be thus conned by them.

Go ahead and believe that it's right and proper and beneficial to
allow women to have abortions when they need them, ...

It's not something one needs to "believe." That's simply a
cut-ands-dried FACT. Abortion is no more a moral issue than is
taking an aspirin for a headache. Only total LOONS like you are
dumb enough to think otherwise.

I even agree with that, ...

Yeah. And the sky is green.

It's the lying that I can't tolerate.

And yet you are so ADEPT at it. It may just be the *only*
thing that you can do worth a damn. (And that is *just* what
it is worth.)
-- Craig Chilton

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
GOD'S "WIN-WIN-WIN" SITUATION
God is omniscient and omnipotent. That means that He has
always KNOWN everything *about* everything, past present and
future. And that He may freely INTERACT, uniquely, with any
person, group, or all humanity, however and whenever He
chooses.
Trillions (indeed, even octillions) of years ago, God KNEW
just *which* human entities (from sperm and ova on, inclusive)
would be born, and which ones would NOT, for whatever
reason. In the case of Jeremiah, He interacted BEFORE
Jeremiah reached the womb -- while Jeremiah was STILL at
the sperm-and-ovum stage! (Jer. 1:5). In THAT case, at least,
the soul had been instilled at the sperm-and-egg stage -- the
stage at which God communicated with Jeremiah.
So it's VERY possible that God instills ALL souls at that
stage... since God ALREADY knows which of them will later
become people, and which ones will not. And if He chooses
to instill souls in ALL of those, then heaven must be a VERY
populated place. And any potential people that happened to
have been aborted then got a FREE pass to heaven. And
missed the RISK that is faced by all of us here on earth.
And then, there also is the very REAL possibility that God
chooses to instill souls ONLY in the entities that He KNOWS,
beforehand, *will* be BORN. Then there are NO free passes
to heaven. But that's no loss to the QUINTILLION human
entities, daily, that never knew the difference.
Any way you look at it, it's a "win-win" situation for God.
Which makes it no great surprise that He never said so much
as ONE SINGLE WORD against abortion. Since abortion is a
highly-valuable REMEDY that enables millions of women to put
their lives BACK on track, and gives them another chance to
pursue their full ranges of future opportunities, the availability
of it is FAR more in line with God's COMPASSION (and the
compassion that Jesus commanded us to show to others), than
it would be for women to be FORCED to carry-to-term against
their will, and see many of their opportunities and their well-being
destroyed. (Particularly since God ALSO was/is well-aware that
MOST women who DO obtain abortions go on later to HAVE
children, by choice, when the timing is better, and the circum-
stances and prospects for long-term stable family environments
are far more favorable.)
For God, the status quo is "win-win-win" -- all the way!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	18 Feb 2006 03:28:50 PM

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> dropped another steaming load..
[..]

Wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with convenience, as long as
accessing it does no harm to any other PEOPLE or their property.

Fetuses ARE people.

NOT according to the Bible,

The bible is irrelevant. You are irrelevant.
<snip proof of same>

Fetuses are no more people than acorns are oak trees.

People are not plants, they are animals Craig.

Every person began as one, ...

Nope. Every person passed through that stage *before* BECOMING
a person.

Same thing.

Just as they passed through Stage One as a pair of Stage
One entities (gametes) that had not yet combined.

No, THEY didn't pass through that stage, because THEY did_not_exist as a
unique and distinct entity at that stage.

You know. The *potential* people

Fetuses are *actual* living, unique, developing, ***complete*** human
entities, not merely potential.

...no person exists who was NOT one once. No human fetus has
ever become ANYTHING BUT a person.

Wrong.

No, RIGHT. No fetus has ever become a tree.

No fetus has ever BEEN a person. Ever.

That's not what I said, try to read more carefully.

But most Stage
Four reproductive-process entities (fetuses) go on to BECOME people.

If not violently aborted.

At the moment they CEASE being fetuses and become people: BIRTH.

Argument by definition. The last resort of sophists.

That is a LIE. Fetuses ARE people,...

Only to

Honest observers.

...even if not recognized in every religion, custom or law, they ARE
unique, complete people in an early developmental stage in every mean-
ingful way.

Wrong. They are unique, complete reproductive-process entities which
are **potential** people.

Argument by definition instead of by truth.

SOME of which go on to *become* people (at
birth) while MOST of them miscarry during the 2nd and 3rd stages (zygotes
and embryoes) -- usually before the woman even knows she's gotten
pregnant.

Something that happens spontaneously cannot by definition be a moral issue.
What are fetuses ten days, or ten hours before birth?

Stop lying about that.

I **never** lie

Yes you do Craig, you do constantly and you do it well.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	18 Feb 2006 06:01:54 PM

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> dropped another steaming load..

[..]

Wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with convenience, as long as
accessing it does no harm to any other PEOPLE or their property.

Fetuses ARE people.

NOT according to the Bible,

The bible is irrelevant. You are irrelevant.

Only the word of the Almighty Dutch is relevant.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Bonnie B"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	17 Feb 2006 10:44:12 PM

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:39:13 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Dutch"
<no@email.com>

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> wrote in message
news:5iicv1dqpveqq2ubpfg6ihvbdulf3j8513@fe04.buzzardnews.com...

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:36:30 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Dutch"
<no@email.com>

Before I had the time to respond to you in this post, both "Bonnie
B."
and "BOB" had already done so. Excellently!!

Mer�i beaucoup, cupcake <kiss noise>

What happened to "get a uterus and then you can have an opinion"?
Shouldn't
that have been "get a uterus and then you can disagree with me"?

No, Check the attribution chevrons, O Illiterate One.

I don't need to check.

Then remain ignorant of the fact that the comment you moaned about was
not addressed to you specifically, rendering your response impotent,
as well as revealing you to be deeply stupid.
<flush Dutchie's useless complaints about his previously refuted
material>
Oh, look -- nothing left. LOL
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	17 Feb 2006 11:00:43 PM

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> scrawled

What happened to "get a uterus and then you can have an opinion"?
Shouldn't
that have been "get a uterus and then you can disagree with me"?

No, Check the attribution chevrons, O Illiterate One.

I don't need to check.

Then

Then you're a hypocrite, and a liar. End of Story.
Next idiot..
.

User: "BOB"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	17 Feb 2006 11:12:09 PM

"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in news:11vdafm5srf44bd@news.supernews.com:

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> scrawled

What happened to "get a uterus and then you can have an opinion"?
Shouldn't
that have been "get a uterus and then you can disagree with me"?

No, Check the attribution chevrons, O Illiterate One.

I don't need to check.

Then

Then you're a hypocrite, and a liar. End of Story.

Next idiot..

That would be you Crotch. You're up.

User: "Bonnie B"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	18 Feb 2006 01:57:57 AM

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:00:43 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Dutch"
<no@email.com>

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> scrawled

What happened to "get a uterus and then you can have an opinion"?
Shouldn't
that have been "get a uterus and then you can disagree with me"?

No, Check the attribution chevrons, O Illiterate One.

I don't need to check.

Then remain ignorant of the fact that the comment
you moaned about was not addressed to you specifically,
rendering your response impotent, as well as revealing you to be deeply stupid.

Have fun remaining ignorant, douchebag. LOL
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	18 Feb 2006 02:11:24 AM

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> blabbered

What happened to "get a uterus and then you can have an opinion"?
Shouldn't
that have been "get a uterus and then you can disagree with me"?

No, Check the attribution chevrons,

I don't need to check.

the comment as not addressed to you specifically,

Liar, your statement...
"I'd even bet money that you are neither the owner nor an operator of a
uterus. So you don't get a say in what a woman does with her body."
Why do we all get to have an opinion on the morality of infanticide but when
it's fetuses being killed only men who agree with you who are allowed to
have an opinion? Don't you mind adding hypocrite to your long list of
credits here?
.

User: "Bonnie B"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	19 Feb 2006 02:03:54 AM

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 00:11:24 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Dutch"
<no@email.com>

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> blabbered

What happened to "get a uterus and then you can have an opinion"?
Shouldn't
that have been "get a uterus and then you can disagree with me"?

No, Check the attribution chevrons,

I don't need to check.

the comment as not addressed to you specifically,

Liar,

Yes, you are, you illiterate piece of *****.
And I still wasn't talking to you when you IGNORED the attribution
chevrons.
Get it yet? Of course not.
You just want something off topic to whine about so you can forget
that others' sex lives are none of your damn business.

Why do we all get to have an opinion on the morality of infanticide but when
it's fetuses being killed only men who agree with you who are allowed to
have an opinion?

Because infants are living people. Fetuses in the first 6 to maybe 8
weeks are not. Those aforementioned fetuses are part of a woman's
body. You are not a woman. Ergo, shut the _fuck_ up.
Now run along and add hypocrite to your long list of
troll credits here. LOL
Oh, and I just fixed your projection for you again. You're welcome,
again.
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	19 Feb 2006 05:33:35 AM

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> blabbered

the comment as not addressed to you specifically,

Liar,

Yes, you are, you illiterate piece of *****.

You're lying again. You say it right below in different words..
"You are not a woman. Ergo, shut the _fuck_ up."
Well up your festering twat with a broken beer bottle BABE. This is a moral
issue that I have a valid opinion on and I plan to talk about it until *I*
feel like stopping. Smart-mouthed lying cunts like you are a dime a dozen,
so eat ***** and die.
.

User: "Bonnie B"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	19 Feb 2006 06:26:53 AM

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:33:35 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Dutch"
<no@email.com>

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> blabbered

the comment as not addressed to you specifically,

Liar,

Yes, you are, you illiterate piece of *****.

You're

.... telling the truth yet again, and that just bugs you endlessly. LOL

"You are not a woman. Ergo, shut the _fuck_ up."

Well up your festering twat with a broken beer bottle BABE.

Oooooohhh, what a manly man you are.
Now, what's that old saying -- oh yeah -- "Scratch a misogynist, find
an oedipally conflicted, racist homophobe." LOL
And you're still not a woman. Ergo, shut the ***** up about abortion.
And others' sex lives are still none of your damn business, as has
been proven to you repeatedly.

Smart-mouthed lying cunts like me are a dime a dozen,
so eat ***** and die.

Glad to fix your projection for you, smart-mouthed lying *****. LOL
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	19 Feb 2006 04:50:32 PM

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> attempting to stifle freedom of speech,
demanded
"shut the ***** up about abortion"
Why don't adults shut up about child abuse? THEY aren't children. Those
children aren't THEIR concern!
Why don't YOU shut the ***** up about abortion until YOU are pregnant and YOU
want to have an abortion?
Why do feel the need to shut people up?
.

User: "Bonnie B"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	19 Feb 2006 05:01:23 PM

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 14:50:32 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Dutch"
<no@email.com>

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> attempting to stifle freedom of speech,
demanded

"shut the ***** up about abortion"

Why don't adults

..... shut the ***** up about what others do with their bodies?
Because they're not really adults.
Now, until you grow a uterus, shut the ***** up about abortion,
dipshit.
Oh, and other's sex lives are still none of your damn business.
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	19 Feb 2006 08:21:19 PM

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> blabbered

the wisdom of "Dutch" <no@email.com>

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> attempting to stifle freedom of speech,
demanded

"shut the ***** up about abortion"

Why don't adults

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse? THEY aren't children. Those
children aren't THEIR concern!
Why don't YOU shut the ***** up about abortion until YOU are pregnant and YOU
want to have an abortion?
Why do feel the need to shut people up?

.... shut the ***** up about what others do with their bodies?

I never mentioned self-mutilation or suicide. Why do you feel the need to
lie about abortion? It's the taking of an innocent human life, deal with it
honestly. I promise that it won't kill you.

Because they're not really adults.

No, you aren't.

Now, until you grow a uterus, shut the ***** up about abortion,
dipshit.

Why does lack of a uterus disqualify me from expressing an opinion on this
moral issue?
1. You don't disqualify men who agree with you
2. You don't disqualify women who have had hysterectomies
3. You don't disqualify men from having an opinion on spousal abuse
For someone who claims to be smart your arguments are very inconsistent and
superficial. If no men ever stood up for the emancipation of women you would
still not be allowed to vote.

Oh, and other's sex lives are still none of your damn business.

Non-sequitor, other people's family lives are none of anyone else's
business, that does not mean that immoral or illegal acts cannot take place
within families. This sophomoric and transparent attempt to paint your
opponents as lascivious or intrusive will not work. Morals are everyone's
business, by definition. This adapative consensus is how our moral structure
evolves.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	19 Feb 2006 11:57:42 PM

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> blabbered

the wisdom of "Dutch" <no@email.com>

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> attempting to stifle freedom of speech,
demanded

"shut the ***** up about abortion"

Why don't adults

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse? THEY aren't children. Those
children aren't THEIR concern!

The children have rights.
Not that you seem to be very concerned abotu people's rights.

Why don't YOU shut the ***** up about abortion until YOU are pregnant and YOU
want to have an abortion?

Same back at you.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Bonnie B"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	20 Feb 2006 01:03:43 PM

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:21:19 -0800, the faaaaabulous supreme deity
Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, Ruler of the heavens and host of fab parties,
opened the heavens and shone his light upon the wisdom of "Dutch"
<no@email.com>

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse?

Abuse is non-consensual. People have a vested interest in curbing
abuse because they don't want to be abused themselves and want to be
protected from it.
Society as a whole also has a vested interest in making sure that its
citizenry is protected from abuse so that all members might continue
contributing to the overall welfare of society.
Thus beneath your remedial sociology lesson for today.
And do keep in mind that until you grow a uterus, you don't get an
opinion about abortion.
And others' sex lives are still none of your damn business.
<flush remainder of Duchess' non-sequitur crapfest>
.

User: "Dutch"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	20 Feb 2006 03:41:25 PM

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> wrote

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse?

Abuse is non-consensual.

Abortion is non-consensual from the point-of-view of the interests of the
fetus. That is the crux of the argument against abortion.

People have a vested interest in curbing
abuse because they don't want to be abused themselves and want to be
protected from it.

That's essentially correct as far as it goes, but it goes further than
simple self-interest. Abuse is seen as morally wrong, harmful and unjust. We
not only want a system that ensures *our own* safety, we want the safety of
innocent others to be protected.

Society as a whole also has a vested interest in making sure that its
citizenry is protected from abuse so that all members might continue
contributing to the overall welfare of society.

That doesn't add anything to what you said above. We protect infants at
least as vigorously as we protect adults, and infants contribute nothing to
the overall "welfare of society". There is no reasoned argument that would
permit us to define infants as deserving of moral consideration while
denying it to fetuses. There *is* a plausible argument that allows a
pregnant woman to make a case for her own reproductive freedom, overuling
the rights of a particular fetus, but to make that argument one does not
need to lie about the nature of an unborn child.

Thus beneath your remedial sociology lesson for today.

Your inflated opinion of your own intellect is well-known, and laughable.
[..]
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	20 Feb 2006 11:23:05 PM

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> wrote

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse?

Abuse is non-consensual.

Abortion is non-consensual from the point-of-view of the interests of the
fetus.

Just as rape is non-consensual from the viewpoint of the rapist.

That is the crux of the argument against abortion.

Women are slaves?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Pat Cherback"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	21 Feb 2006 03:05:37 PM

Ray Fischer wrote:

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> wrote

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse?

Abuse is non-consensual.

Abortion is non-consensual from the point-of-view of the interests of the
fetus.

Just as rape is non-consensual from the viewpoint of the rapist.

Rape is non-consensual by definition, from all possible viewpoints.
Abortion is not.

That is the crux of the argument against abortion.

Women are slaves?

Everyone is a slave to the truth, whether they like it or not. Many
people think that they can create convenient, comforting truths, but
those efforts are doomed to fail. Abortion is the taking a human life,
that is the uncomfortable, inconvenient truth. It may or may not be
right to do it, that's not for anyone but the mother to decide.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	21 Feb 2006 04:22:07 PM

Pat Cherback <its.raining.truth@gmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> wrote

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse?

Abuse is non-consensual.

Abortion is non-consensual from the point-of-view of the interests of the
fetus.

Just as rape is non-consensual from the viewpoint of the rapist.

Rape is non-consensual by definition, from all possible viewpoints.

Likewise forced childbirth.

Abortion is not.

That is the crux of the argument against abortion.

Women are slaves?

Everyone is a slave to the truth, whether they like it or not.

Inane propaganda.

Many
people think that they can create convenient, comforting truths, but
those efforts are doomed to fail. Abortion is the taking a human life,
that is the uncomfortable, inconvenient truth.

According to millenia of human social and legal tradition the start
of a human's life is and has been at birth. When you claim otherwise
you are lying.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Pat Cherback"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	22 Feb 2006 04:48:47 AM

Ray Fischer wrote:

Pat Cherback <its.raining.truth@gmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> wrote

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse?

Abuse is non-consensual.

Abortion is non-consensual from the point-of-view of the interests of the
fetus.

Just as rape is non-consensual from the viewpoint of the rapist.

Rape is non-consensual by definition, from all possible viewpoints.

Likewise forced childbirth.

That is true, forced childbirth is wrong. Irresponsible sex is also
wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. Pro-life advocates have it all
wrong in this respect. Everyone gets it wrong here. There is a simple
set of truths that gets it right.

That is the crux of the argument against abortion.

Women are slaves?

Everyone is a slave to the truth, whether they like it or not.

Inane propaganda.

Only to those who fear the truth..

Many
people think that they can create convenient, comforting truths, but
those efforts are doomed to fail. Abortion is the taking a human life,
that is the uncomfortable, inconvenient truth.

According to millenia of human social and legal tradition the start
of a human's life is and has been at birth. When you claim otherwise
you are lying.

According to the truth a fetus is a unique already existing human life,
and you know it. If what you say were true, a newborn child could not
and would not be as it is at birth. It would be a group of cells so
small it would be invisible to the eye.
You fear that if you admit the truth, that abortion is the taking of
human life, that women will lose the ability to chose to have
abortions, that is not the case. Women in that situation are very
strong in their belief in what they need to do. This is known to be
true, if you know anything about women in this situation.
.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: Teens Promote Purity on Valentine's Day	22 Feb 2006 12:22:05 PM

Pat Cherback <its.raining.truth@gmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Pat Cherback <its.raining.truth@gmail.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

"Bonnie B" <bonnieb@fifismaxi.pad> wrote

Why don't adults shut up about child abuse?

Abuse is non-consensual.

Abortion is non-consensual from the point-of-view of the interests of the
fetus.

Just as rape is non-consensual from the viewpoint of the rapist.

Rape is non-consensual by definition, from all possible viewpoints.

Likewise forced childbirth.

That is true, forced childbirth is wrong. Irresponsible sex is also
wrong.

There's the usual anti-sex prudery.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Then stop trying to make a right out of a wrong.

Pro-life advocates have it all
wrong in this respect. Everyone gets it wrong here. There is a simple
set of truths that gets it right.

LOL! YOU know the "truth" and everybody who disagrees is wrong.

Many
people think that they can create convenient, comforting truths, but
those efforts are doomed to fail. Abortion is the taking a human life,
that is the uncomfortable, inconvenient truth.

According to millenia of human social and legal tradition the start
of a human's life is and has been at birth. When you claim otherwise
you are lying.

According to the truth

Your opinion.

a fetus is a unique already existing human life,

As is every sperm and egg.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

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