"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:1g7t811h823bs8gbcco7rk3ddkcme8n7q6@4ax.com...

On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:50:16 -0500,
"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:

Norma <njb904@charter.net> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote

=== READERS; My ISP is screwing up again, only allowing
me to post to single groups, or pairs of them. So due
to those nitwits not having their act together tonight,
I'm now posting this in *that* manner. Therefore, if this
shows up more than once in your group, please ignore
the *extra* ones. --Thanks!! ===

+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
+

Re: The "Koran in the Toilet" Incident

Anyone who knows anything about the way that the U.S.
government has functioned for the last 100+ years (and probably
a lot longer than that) knows the following:

-- It can't *stand* to be considered wrong. (In fact, just a
few decades ago, it produced many propaganda films
designed SOLELY for consumption of people living
overseas from America, that painted us as a GLORIOUS
and problem-free place. The films contained such
patent lies of that nature, that they were prohibited from
being viewed by *Americans.* The reason for which is
obvious. Americans would have laughed their butts off
at the sheer and blatant dishonesty of them.

-- Our military not only is legitimately "gung-ho" when that
is called for, but it also gets power-mad from time to time,
and then can go hog-wild in inflicting unnecessary cruelty
to enemies, and sometimes just to people they have
control over. (Can you say, "My Lei Massacre?")

-- If anything paints us in a bad light, documents pertaining
to that get shredded or classified like crazy!

-- If something is TOO well-publicized to be classified,
then the 'damage-control" folks swing into action. To
see good examples of that, just review the transcripts
of the recordings between Nixon and his henchmen
during the Watergate Era. (Can you say, "stonewalling?")

It's not hard to imagine how the conversations probably went
in the Pentagon and the State Department after Newsweek
reported to the whole world that a copy of The Koran was flushed
down a toilet at our base in Guantanamo Bay, to harass one or
more of our Muslim prisoners. (You know -- those Muslim prisoners
that we keep down there -- OUTSIDE of most U.S. jurisdiction, in
our lame attempt to **circumvent** the Bill of Rights and thereby
keep them detained for years without getting fair trials? THOSE
prisoners?)

Who knows... but the conversation at VERY high levels very
well have been something like this:

# # # # # # # #

"The guards flushed a WHAT down a toilet?"

"A copy of The Koran," sir.

"And WHO reported that, and to WHOM?"

"'Newsweek' Magazine, sir. To the whole world.

"Oh DAMN!! **Now** there's gonna be hell to pay!
Did the incident actually happen?"

"Who knows? Probably. There's nothing uncommon
about harassing those prisoners down there. Hell, just
keeping them imprisoned at the end of Cuba for years with
no hope of getting a fair trial is worse torture than that."

""Oh, man!! We need to concoct some SERIOUS
damage control on THIS one! Got any ideas, for openers?"

"Well... Newsweek's already trying to weasel out of it
by claiming there was only one witness, and they ran with
it -- rather than ensuring that there were at least two
witnesses, per their usual procedures."

"Hmmm. That sounds fairly credible. A story that can't
help but sell magazines, that's right in line with the sort of
crap that we typically dole out to our prisoners in Guantan-
amo. Yeah!! Let's back them on that, and let the maga-
zine have most of the egg on ITS face. Hell, those dumb
ragheads over there in the Middle East should fall for that
in a heartbeat. Go for it!!"

# # # # # # # #

SO... now it remains to see whether those so-called
"ignorant ragheads" (i.e., Muslims) really ARE that gullible...
or if they'll INSTEAD see in a heartbeat the REAL powers-
that-be in America, for what they *really* are.

And -- while they're working on that, it wouldn't hurt
for them to keep in mind that our current administration...
including the majorities of both houses of Congress -- are
kowtowing to a collection of fanatical pseudo-Christian
extremists (the "Religious Radical Right") who have abso-
lutely NO respect or regard for ANY other person's beliefs,
when they're not pseudo-Christians themselves who
subscribe to their own repressive agendas.

So we can only hope that the billion and more Muslims
around the world realize that 94% of Americans are ACTUAL
Christians who want *nothing* to do with the hatefulness,
bigotry, intolerance, and extremism of that mere (but artificially
potent) 6% in the "Religious Radical Right" splinter group.

Oh, Yeah. Lots of luck on *that*! Because most
of the American people haven't yet figured out THEM-
SELVES that such a clear distinction as that prevails.

Too much time surfing the net, or watching TV, I guess.

Islamic folks, you're on your own. But now you have
a LOT of solid food for thought!

-- Craig Chilton (A person who's *been* to Turkey,
Jordan, Israel/Palestine, Egypt, Azerbaijan, and
Kazakhstan, and is an American who already
know that you are NOT "ignorant ragheads."
Don't count on our *government* being smart
enough to do that, however.)
<xanadu222@mchsi.com>

Flushing one corner of one page would have represented
desecration, but I would bet it was something simple, like with
the "menstrual blood" story, it might have been touched by a
woman who was menstruating, and didn't use any blood at all.
It doesn't take much to desecrate the Qur'an in the eyes of the
Muslim. Like they wouldn't sell the jewelry symbols of Islam to
ex-pats in Saudi, because they "might" wear them into the
bathroom. It probably was a simple statement that was misin-
terpreted, and that would be enough to start a frenzy of hate.

We don't know the truth of this incident, so give it a rest...

We know that our gutless and DIShonest government
PRESSURED Newsweek to issue a retraction. Funnier than hell,
watching *that* pathetic display! I hope that OBVIOUS desperation
on the U.S. Government's part was *well* noted by the Middle
Easterners.

Oh, Craig nevers rests. He seems to love making a fool of himself.

Uh-huh. Right. And yet, CLUELESS and FACTLESS **you** has
never been able to demonstrate that. But you certainly are good at
making a total fool of *yourself* with those vacuous comments of yours.

<pointless idiocy flushed>

NO WONDER you cravenly cower behind a silly alias, rather than
having the guts and courage of your convictions to post under your real
name. That's a typical characteristic of MOST bigots who support
hateful agendas. Gives them a shot at NOT finding themselves total
laughingstocks in front of whatever friends they might have.

90% of people post under something other than their real name.
What's your problem with it?

When it comes to posting anonymously, it makes no difference
whether a FAIR-MINDED person who is opposed to a hateful
agenda (Anti-Choice) posts anonymously or not, since he/she has
NOTHING to be ASHAMED of in the first place, when putting up
posts that DEFEND personal liberties against the agendas of mindless,
hateful and control-freakish bigots. The only anonymous COWARDS
are those who spew shameful hate and repression, while hiding behind
an alias in the process... just like a Ku Klux Klansman who cravenly
hides his face under a hood."

In other words, you have a double standard. It's similar to your "If
anyone disagree's with me, they are wrong" standard.

Craig Chilton" <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote:

"Reasoned Insanity" <mintclovers@yahoo.com> wrote:

Norma <njb904@charter.net> wrote:

Craig Chilton <xanadu222_@mchsi.com> wrote

Re: The "Koran in the Toilet" Incident

Anyone who knows anything about the way that the U.S.
government has functioned for the last 100+ years (and probably
a lot longer than that) knows the following:

-- It can't *stand* to be considered wrong. (In fact, just a
few decades ago, it produced many propaganda films
designed SOLELY for consumption of people living
overseas from America, that painted us as a GLORIOUS
and problem-free place. The films contained such
patent lies of that nature, that they were prohibited from
being viewed by *Americans.* The reason for which is
obvious. Americans would have laughed their butts off
at the sheer and blatant dishonesty of them.

-- Our military not only is legitimately "gung-ho" when that
is called for, but it also gets power-mad from time to time,
and then can go hog-wild in inflicting unnecessary cruelty
to enemies, and sometimes just to people they have
control over. (Can you say, "My Lei Massacre?")

-- If anything paints us in a bad light, documents pertaining
to that get shredded or classified like crazy!

-- If something is TOO well-publicized to be classified,
then the 'damage-control" folks swing into action. To
see good examples of that, just review the transcripts
of the recordings between Nixon and his henchmen
during the Watergate Era. (Can you say, "stonewalling?")

It's not hard to imagine how the conversations probably went
in the Pentagon and the State Department after Newsweek
reported to the whole world that a copy of The Koran was flushed
down a toilet at our base in Guantanamo Bay, to harass one or
more of our Muslim prisoners. (You know -- those Muslim prisoners
that we keep down there -- OUTSIDE of most U.S. jurisdiction, in
our lame attempt to **circumvent** the Bill of Rights and thereby
keep them detained for years without getting fair trials? THOSE
prisoners?)

Who knows... but the conversation at VERY high levels very
well have been something like this:

# # # # # # # #

"The guards flushed a WHAT down a toilet?"

"A copy of The Koran," sir.

"And WHO reported that, and to WHOM?"

"'Newsweek' Magazine, sir. To the whole world.

"Oh DAMN!! **Now** there's gonna be hell to pay!
Did the incident actually happen?"

"Who knows? Probably. There's nothing uncommon
about harassing those prisoners down there. Hell, just
keeping them imprisoned at the end of Cuba for years with
no hope of getting a fair trial is worse torture than that."

""Oh, man!! We need to concoct some SERIOUS
damage control on THIS one! Got any ideas, for openers?"

"Well... Newsweek's already trying to weasel out of it
by claiming there was only one witness, and they ran with
it -- rather than ensuring that there were at least two
witnesses, per their usual procedures."

"Hmmm. That sounds fairly credible. A story that can't
help but sell magazines, that's right in line with the sort of
crap that we typically dole out to our prisoners in Guantan-
amo. Yeah!! Let's back them on that, and let the maga-
zine have most of the egg on ITS face. Hell, those dumb
ragheads over there in the Middle East should fall for that
in a heartbeat. Go for it!!"

# # # # # # # #

SO... now it remains to see whether those so-called
"ignorant ragheads" (i.e., Muslims) really ARE that gullible...
or if they'll INSTEAD see in a heartbeat the REAL powers-
that-be in America, for what they *really* are.

And -- while they're working on that, it wouldn't hurt
for them to keep in mind that our current administration...
including the majorities of both houses of Congress -- are
kowtowing to a collection of fanatical pseudo-Christian
extremists (the "Religious Radical Right") who have abso-
lutely NO respect or regard for ANY other person's beliefs,
when they're not pseudo-Christians themselves who
subscribe to their own repressive agendas.

So we can only hope that the billion and more Muslims
around the world realize that 94% of Americans are ACTUAL
Christians who want *nothing* to do with the hatefulness,
bigotry, intolerance, and extremism of that mere (but artificially
potent) 6% in the "Religious Radical Right" splinter group.

Oh, Yeah. Lots of luck on *that*! Because most
of the American people haven't yet figured out THEM-
SELVES that such a clear distinction as that prevails.

Too much time surfing the net, or watching TV, I guess.

Islamic folks, you're on your own. But now you have
a LOT of solid food for thought!

-- Craig Chilton (A person who's *been* to Turkey,
Jordan, Israel/Palestine, Egypt, Azerbaijan, and
Kazakhstan, and is an American who already
know that you are NOT "ignorant ragheads."
Don't count on our *government* being smart
enough to do that, however.)
<xanadu222@mchsi.com>

Flushing one corner of one page would have represented
desecration, but I would bet it was something simple, like with
the "menstrual blood" story, it might have been touched by a
woman who was menstruating, and didn't use any blood at all.
It doesn't take much to desecrate the Qur'an in the eyes of the
Muslim. Like they wouldn't sell the jewelry symbols of Islam to
ex-pats in Saudi, because they "might" wear them into the
bathroom. It probably was a simple statement that was misin-
terpreted, and that would be enough to start a frenzy of hate.

We don't know the truth of this incident, so give it a rest...

We know that our gutless and DIShonest government
PRESSURED Newsweek to issue a retraction. Funnier than hell,
watching *that* pathetic display! I hope that OBVIOUS desperation
on the U.S. Government's part was *well* noted by the Middle
Easterners.

Oh, Craig nevers rests. He seems to love making a fool of himself.

Uh-huh. Right. And yet, CLUELESS and FACTLESS **you** has
never been able to demonstrate that. But you certainly are good at
making a total fool of *yourself* with those vacuous comments of yours.

NO WONDER you cravenly cower behind a silly alias, rather than
having the guts and courage of your convictions to post under your real
name. That's a typical characteristic of MOST bigots who support
hateful agendas. Gives them a shot at NOT finding themselves total
laughingstocks in front of whatever friends they might have.

90% of people post under something other than their real name.
What's your problem with it?

When it comes to posting anonymously, it makes no difference
whether a FAIR-MINDED person who is opposed to a hateful
agenda (Anti-Choice) posts anonymously or not, since he/she has
NOTHING to be ASHAMED of in the first place, when putting up
posts that DEFEND personal liberties against the agendas of mindless,
hateful and control-freakish bigots. The only anonymous COWARDS
are those who spew shameful hate and repression, while hiding behind
an alias in the process... just like a Ku Klux Klansman who cravenly
hides his face under a hood."

In other words, you have a double standard. It's similar to your
"If anyone disagree's with me, they are wrong" standard.