| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
21 May 2006 11:11:07 PM |
| Object: |
The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Over the last year a number of commentators have sought to rehash old and
ill-informed accusations in an attempt to undermine the reputation of Pope
Pius XII. His war-time effort to save Jewish lives has, amazingly, been the
principal area of attack. The BBC program Reputations, repeated on 14th
February 1996, was one especially virulent attack. It was followed by a
review in The Times by religious affairs correspondent, Ruth Gledhill, which
attacked Pius XII apparently on the strength of the BBC program alone.
Later, the producer of the program, Jonathan Lewis, attempted to explain his
position in the liberal Catholic Journal The Tablet.
Pius XII was one of the few world leaders outside Jewry itself who was quick
to recognize the danger of Nazism. Former Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide,
in his book The Last Three Popes and the Jews demonstrates convincingly the
consistent and active protection provided to Jews in Europe by the papacy.
He does not shrink from strong criticism of other parts of the Catholic
Church where necessary and of some Catholic governments in particular.
Further, he commands respect from those reading from a Jewish perspective.
It is estimated that the actions of Pius XII directly led to the saving of
800,000 Jewish lives during the war. The estimate of 800,000 Jewish lives is
based upon the testimony of the post-war government of the recently created
State of Israel which recognized and honored that pope's contribution. The
Israelis recognized the figure and a forest of as many trees was planted in
commemoration in the Negeb, SE of Jerusalem, and was shown to Pope Paul VI
with some ceremony on his first state visit to Israel. Rev. Fr. Jean
Charles-Roux, now a Rosininian priest living in London and whose father was
French Ambassador to the Holy See in the 30's, lived with his family in Rome
during the fateful pre-war period. He recalls that the Pope told his father
as early as 1935 that the new regime in Germany was "diabolical." The
Ambassador frequently warned his government but the general reaction in
France seems to have been that it was good to see the back of the Prussian
militarist and that it was no bad thing that an Austrian-Czech house painter
was now Chancellor.
The reaction in the USA and Britain was scarcely different at that time; and
even later when they must have begun to know about the camps. The U.S.
government accepted a total of 10,000 - 15,000 Jewish refugees throughout
the war. - a truly scandalous statistic.
Britain was little better and before the war the government had been full of
"appeasers," the Duke of Windsor visited Hitler and Lloyd George even went
so far as to call him "the greatest living German"!
Ambassador Charles-Roux's own government in Paris (and the British
government) were deaf to the pleas of the Vatican to assist the German
internal resistance to the Nazi government. From the very beginning Pius XII
tried to persuade the Allied governments to support the German opposition to
Hitler, but since they would not listen to men like the Anglican Bishop Bell
of Chichester or to the few Jews who had escaped from Germany to Britain and
America, they would not and did not listen to a Pope. Men like Adam von
Trott zu Sulz (he had been a Rhodes Scholar at Balliol), Peter Yorek von
Wartenburg and many other leading Germans who later formed the Kreisau
circle, made continuous, repeated, energetic and ultimately futile attempts
to reach and persuade the British government to back, or even talk with, the
German resistance to Hitler. They were all killed in the 20th July plot to
assassinate Hitler, the last in a long line of foiled attempts to get rid of
the dictator, which was triggered by the Roman Catholic officer, Count Claus
Schenk von Stauffenberg. Stauffenberg was shot out of hand. Other
conspirators were not so lucky. They were tried by the infamous "People's
Court" and hanged by piano wire from butchers' hooks of Ploetzensce prison.
This was filmed on Hitler's orders so that he could watch it himself later.
Count von Galen, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Munster, was another outspoken
critic of the racial and eugenic policies of the Nazis and would undoubtedly
have been liquidated by them if not for the prominence and prestige of his
position.
In August 1943 Pius XII received a plea from the World Jewish Congress to
try to persuade the Italian authorities to remove 20,000 Jewish refugees
from internment camps in Northern Italy. "Our terror-stricken brethren look
to Your Holiness as the only hope for saving them from persecution and
death" they wrote. In September 1943, A.L. Easterman on behalf of the WJC
reported to the Apostolic Delegate in London (there was no Nuncio since the
British government always refused to recognize the diplomatic rights of the
Holy See-a hangover from our anti-
Catholic past). He reported that the efforts of the Holy See on behalf of
the Jews had been successful and wrote, "I feel sure that the efforts of
your Grace, and of the Holy See have brought about this fortunate result,
and I should like to express to the Holy See and yourself the warmest thanks
of the World Jewish Congress."
Around the same time, the German Chief of Police in Rome threatened to send
some 200 Jews to the Russian front unless they produced within 36 hours 50
kg of gold or equivalent in currency. The Chief Rabbi approached the Holy
See which immediately placed 15 kg at his disposal and lent the necessary
money free of charge. More than half the Jews of Rome were sheltered in
ecclesiastical buildings opened on the express instructions of Pius XII
himself. The Vatican Secretariat of State saved more Jews by faking their
baptisms and sending lists of "baptized" Jews to the German Ambassador,
Weizsacker, so that they could be evacuated. Many of those saved were helped
to escape by the massive over-issuing of Vatican passports, particularly in
the latter half of 1944, and records exist of many of these. However, this
had perforce to be handled with little or no ordinary documentary evidence
since the Nazis would without doubt have crushed this means of escape
immediately if they had become aware of the extent to which it was being
used to facilitate the rescue of Jews.
In November, 1943 Chief Rabbi Herzog wrote to Cardinal Roncalli, the future
Pope John XXIII, then Apostolic Delegate for Turkey and Greece, saying: "I
take this opportunity to express to your Eminence my sincere thanks as well
as my deep appreciation of your very kindly attitude to Israel and of the
invaluable help given by the Catholic Church to the Jewish people in its
affliction. Would you please convey these sentiments which come from Sion,
to His Holiness the Pope (Pius XII) along with the assurances that the
people of Israel know how to value his assistance and his attitude." The
American Jewish Welfare Board wrote to Pius XII in July 1944 to express its
appreciation for the protection given to the Jews during the German
occupation of Italy. At the end of the war, the World Jewish Congress
expressed its gratitude to the Pope and gave 20 million Lire to Vatican
charities. A former Israeli diplomat in Italy claimed that: "The Catholic
Church saved more Jewish lives during the war than all the other Churches,
religious institutions and rescue organizations put together. Its record
stands in startling contrast to the achievements of the International Red
Cross and the Western Democracies."
The Pope protested particularly against the deportations of Jews in
Slovakia, Hungary and Vichy, France, since these were formerly Catholic
countries where Fascists had gained control and they still had a majority of
Catholic citizens. In Hungary the Nunciature used thousands of blank and
forged forms to help Jews escape. A Red Cross worker even complained that
the use of forged documents was against the Geneva Convention! Happily this
rather officious complaint did not prevent the Nuncio's covert operation
continuing.
Pope Pius XII knew Germany well, having previously been papal Nuncio there.
It was he himself who wrote (after reading the first draft by Cardinal
Faulhaber of Munich) the criticism of racial policies in the Encyclical Mit
Brennender Sorge (which means "with burning anxiety" i.e. about the Nazi
threat to racial minorities and specifically the Jews) addressed directly to
the German people during the pontificate of Pope Pius XI. He wrote that
Catholics must never be anti-Semitic because "we are all Semites
spiritually" and ought to hold the Jewish people in high regard accordingly.
As a matter of simple historical fact, Rabbi Israel Zolli, the Chief Rabbi
of Rome, was received into the Catholic Church in 1945 after the war was
over. He was baptized entirely of his own free will and asked Pius XII, with
whom he had worked closely in the saving of Jewish lives, to be his
godfather. Dr. Zolli chose the name Eugenio a his baptismal name precisely
because it was Pius XII's own name.
These facts are rarely mentioned by commentators, yet they are clearly vital
to any assessment of the reputation of Pius XII. Instead an insidious
campaign has been maintained against the good name of that Pope, largely
centering around the accusation that he kept silent during the war about the
plight of the Jews and refused to mention them by name. It is now generally
implied by some that this was so because he was racist and an anti-Semite.
It is difficult to conceive of a more detestable lie.
Pius XII, as Cardinal Pacelli, had a hand in writing the encyclical Non
Abbiamo Bisogno which condemned Italian Fascist doctrines, as well as Divini
Redemptoris which opposed Soviet Communism and the massacres and starvation
that were being perpetrated in its name in Russia (e.g. the 10 million
peasants starved to death in the Ukraine). Pius XII was a highly active,
energetic and zealous opponent of totalitarianism and oppression. Pope Pius
XI issued the encyclical letter Mit Brennender Sorge in 1937 because he was
the ruling Pope; but it was Cardinal Pacelli, later Pius XII, who wrote it.
The German Roman Catholic hierarchy thanked Pope XI for the letter, which
condemned racism and anti-Semitism roundly, and the Pope pointed to Cardinal
Pacelli saying it was he who had been responsible for it. Pius XII's first
encyclical in 1939, Summi Pontificatus, repeated the theme and the Gestapo
were immediately given orders by the Nazi leadership to prevent its
distribution.
Thereafter, Pius XII adopted his policy of not naming the Jews explicitly.
This was partly because his experience of the diplomatic "deafness" of the
Allied governments and partly because of his knowledge and experience of the
increased persecution of Jews which followed the condemnatory statements
made in the two mentioned encyclicals.
He devoted himself instead to the covert rescue operation to save Jewish
lives, which was probably the most successful of all those attempted
particularly if one takes into account the saving of the Hungarian Jews and
the joint actions of the Vatican and the papal Nuncio in Hungary at that
time. It is well recognized that the saviors of the Hungarian Jews were the
papal Nuncio and the Swedish Embassy (in the person of Raoul Wallenberg),
both seeking to outwit the Chief Nazi murderer, Adolf Eichmann.
Pius XII followed the Dutch Roman Catholic hierarchy's plan to name the Jews
explicitly in their condemnation of Nazi deportations and intended to issue
a similar statement himself. The Nazis threatened to arrest more Jews. The
Dutch Reformed Church agreed not to protest openly but the Roman Catholic
hierarchy issued, in May 1943, their famous protest against the
deportations. The Nazis then launched an all-out offensive against Jews
(except those who had converted to the Dutch Protestant Reformed Church).
Ironically, it was the Dutch hierarchy's letter of open condemnation which
led to the arrest and execution of Edith Stein, the Jewish Roman Catholic
nun and philosopher.
The news of the increased persecution reached Pius XII. His own protest was
due to go into L'Osservatore Romano that very evening but he had the draft
burnt saying "If the protest of the Dutch Bishops has cost the lives of
40,000 people, my intervention would take at least 200,000 people to their
deaths." (See II Seitimanale, 1 March 1975, p.40.) Such was the result of
openly naming the Jews; more death from vain gestures.
There is no doubt that if Pius XII had made such a vain gesture, instead of
saving more Jewish lives, he would then have been open to the criticism of
having made the situation worse by vain and inopportune public statements.
Those who now criticize him for not saying enough would then have attacked
him for saying too much.
It is easy to forget that there was only so much that the Pope could do. He
had no Army or police beyond the Swiss Guard and he was not listened to by
the Allied powers. Under constant surveillance and threats from the Nazis
when they occupied Rome, his statements were seized and destroyed by the
Gestapo. As for his influence with loyal Roman Catholics, he had already
spelt out precisely and forthrightly what his views and those of the Church
were in the two above-mentioned encyclicals and in constant re-affirmations
of his position in the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatoire. No loyal Roman
Catholic need have been in any doubt at the time what the Catholic Church's
views on Nazism and racism were. The fact that some bad Catholics allowed
themselves to become involved with the Nazi terror cannot be blamed on Pope
Pius XII-any more than the fact that there were Jewish Kapos and a Jewish
police helping the Nazis enforce their extermination policies can be blamed
upon Jewish religious leaders. Pius XII plainly repudiated the perverted
doctrines of the Nazis and also the immoral Fascist doctrines of Benito
Mussolini (which had been condemned in the encyclical Non Abbiamo Bisogno
meaning "we have no need" i.e. of Fascist doctrines).
He is also sometimes criticized for not excommunicating Hitler, but Hitler
was already excommunicated ipso facto for a whole range of crimes and could
only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever
have wanted to, by having his excommunication lifted by the Pope himself.
The lifting of the sentence was reserved to the Holy See, latae sententiae.
Besides, the complaint assumes that Hitler took some notice of the Holy See
and the Catholic Church. Insofar as he did, it was for purely political
reasons, since he was forced to recognize the influence of the Catholic
Church and the papacy. Hitler described himself as "a complete pagan" (see
Hitler's Table Talk) and regarded the Catholic Church as his greatest enemy,
which he would destroy when he had the opportunity.
One must remember, too, that the Pope had a duty to his own flock, who were
in equal danger if they spoke out against the Nazis. Prince Sapicha, the
Cardinal of Cracow in Poland, told the Pope, perfectly accurately, that if
there were open public denunciations Catholics and Jews would be massacred
in Poland. It was better to try and rescue as many as possible through the
religious houses and allow the opposition Army to build up (which it did -
the Armija Krajowa, the secret underground Army under General Bor-Komorowski
which was later betrayed by the soviets and massacred by the Nazis). In
1940, 800 priests died in Buchenwald, 1,200 in 1942 and 3,000 in 1943. And
that was just Buchenwald.
Later, after the war was over, Pius XII received a large delegation of Roman
Jews in the Vatican and ordered that the Imperial steps be opened for them
to enter by. These steps were usually reserved for crowned Heads of State
(although they were later opened once for President Charles de Gaulle). The
Pope received them in the Sistine chapel and, seeing that his Jewish
visitors felt uncomfortable in that place, he came down from his throne and
warmly welcomed them telling them to feel completely at home, saying "I am
only the Vicar of Christ but you are His very kith and kin". Such was his
great love for the Jewish people, augmented by his knowledge of their
terrible sufferings.
Oskar Schindler, a Roman Catholic, is regarded as a "righteous gentile" by
many Jews for saving the lives of some 3,000 - 4,000 Jews in his factories.
Why then is Pope Pius XII so unjustly criticized, despite saving 800,000
Jewish lives?
--
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J Young
youngopinions@aol.com
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 01:17:54 AM |
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<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Yeah, we're going to get the "real" story about a pope from the
catholics.
Want to buy a bridge?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "BernardZ" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 09:27:31 AM |
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In article <44715792$0$65441$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net says...
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Yeah, we're going to get the "real" story about a pope from the
catholics.
Want to buy a bridge?
I like the way its titled "The Real Story of Pius XII and the Jews". Its
anything but real. That guy did nothing.
--
Be careful, what you predict with the theory of human-caused global
warming as it will be tested soon enough as we aren't going to reduce
carbon dioxide emissions.
Observations of Bernard - No 99
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 10:46:29 AM |
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In article <MPG.1edc75629acdfa9989778@west.Usenet-News.net>, BernardZ
<DontBother@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
In article <44715792$0$65441$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
rfischer@sonic.net says...
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Yeah, we're going to get the "real" story about a pope from the
catholics.
Want to buy a bridge?
I like the way its titled "The Real Story of Pius XII and the Jews". Its
anything but real.
• I have observed that things which purport to be real and/or truthful
usually are roughly half so.
That guy did nothing.
• *****. Pius XII issued postwar Vatican passports to Adolph Eichmann
and Dr. Joseph Mengele so that they could escape to Argentina. In 1956,
Mengele was listed in the Buenos Aires telephone directory. Is that real
chutzpah or what?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 11:01:59 AM |
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".R L Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2205060846290001@192.168.1.100...
. *****. Pius XII issued postwar Vatican passports to Adolph Eichmann
and Dr. Joseph Mengele so that they could escape to Argentina. In 1956,
Mengele was listed in the Buenos Aires telephone directory. Is that real
chutzpah or what?
Two questions:
#1) Did the fact that the Soviets helped Heinrich Mueller and Martin Bormann
escape in the closing days of the war make them Nazi sympathizers? Doubtful.
Most likely, both the Soviets and the Vatican had individuals at work with
their own agendas. The RCC was amongst the persecuted; they were not the
persecutors.
#2) Does the fact that Golda Meir payed special homage to His Holiness upon
his death have any bearing on the situation? Or are you more qualified to
speak for the Jewish nation than she?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 10:54:46 PM |
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<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
".R L Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
. *****. Pius XII issued postwar Vatican passports to Adolph Eichmann
and Dr. Joseph Mengele so that they could escape to Argentina. In 1956,
Mengele was listed in the Buenos Aires telephone directory. Is that real
chutzpah or what?
Two questions:
#1) Did the fact that the Soviets helped Heinrich Mueller and Martin Bormann
So you're saying that Pius XII was no worse than Stalin?
Okay, I'll grant you that much.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 11:40:11 AM |
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In article <v_SdnQJFCtjxfezZRVn-uw@giganews.com>, <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
".R L Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2205060846290001@192.168.1.100...
. *****. Pius XII issued postwar Vatican passports to Adolph Eichmann
and Dr. Joseph Mengele so that they could escape to Argentina. In 1956,
Mengele was listed in the Buenos Aires telephone directory. Is that real
chutzpah or what?
Two questions:
#1) Did the fact that the Soviets helped Heinrich Mueller and Martin Bormann
escape in the closing days of the war make them Nazi sympathizers? Doubtful.
Most likely, both the Soviets and the Vatican had individuals at work with
their own agendas. The RCC was amongst the persecuted; they were not the
persecutors.
#2) Does the fact that Golda Meir payed special homage to His Holiness upon
his death have any bearing on the situation?
*** Yes, because Golda died in 1978 and it was not until February, 1992
that the government of Argentina opened the secret file on Eichmann and
Mengele and revealed that they had entered Argentina after the war on
Vatican Passports. The conduit for escaping war criminals was known as
the"Monastery Route." Prominent individuals in this enterprise were Bishop
Hudal, Father Drugonovich -- a Croat living in Rome, Ivo Omrcamin and the
Eugenio Pacelli -- alias Pius XII. Drugonovich specialized in forged
documents and hiding money -- presumably in the church's Institute for
Religious Works (bank) in Rome. Omrcamin was responsible for the physical
operation of the line. In an interview with Memory Pictures, Inc. in 1986,
Omrcamin explained that Pius XII backed the operation because he, like the
Nazis, was anticommunist. According to Omrcamin, the last pope to use the
"Monastery Route" was Paul VI.
Or are you more qualified to
speak for the Jewish nation than she?
*** Of course I could be wrong, but I am probably more qualified to speak
it than persons who died prior to an event taking place.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 04:51:49 AM |
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In article <44715792$0$65441$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, wrote:
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Yeah, we're going to get the "real" story about a pope from the
catholics.
Want to buy a bridge?
chortle
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| User: "SpankyTClown" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
23 May 2006 10:32:54 AM |
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It's all about the old men in dresses that want you to call them
father, that or the mad money.
Ray Fischer wrote:
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Yeah, we're going to get the "real" story about a pope from the
catholics.
Want to buy a bridge?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "princeandy" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
04 Jun 2006 08:19:41 PM |
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<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:MK2dnX8N6ahIpOzZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Over the last year a number of commentators have sought to rehash old and
ill-informed accusations in an attempt to undermine the reputation of Pope
Pius XII. His war-time effort to save Jewish lives has, amazingly, been
the
principal area of attack. The BBC program Reputations, repeated on 14th
February 1996, was one especially virulent attack. It was followed by a
review in The Times by religious affairs correspondent, Ruth Gledhill,
which
attacked Pius XII apparently on the strength of the BBC program alone.
Later, the producer of the program, Jonathan Lewis, attempted to explain
his
position in the liberal Catholic Journal The Tablet.
Pius XII was one of the few world leaders outside Jewry itself who was
quick
to recognize the danger of Nazism. Former Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide,
in his book The Last Three Popes and the Jews demonstrates convincingly
the
consistent and active protection provided to Jews in Europe by the papacy.
He does not shrink from strong criticism of other parts of the Catholic
Church where necessary and of some Catholic governments in particular.
Further, he commands respect from those reading from a Jewish perspective.
HOW WELL THOSSE JEWISH/ZIONIST HOLOHOAX LIES WORK.
YOU CANNOT DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT THE WAR WITHOUT COMING UP AGAINST THE
QUOTING HUGE AND UNREALISTIC FIGURES TO ENLIST CATHOLIC AND OTHER
PARTICIPATION BY PRAISE AND SOLIDIFY EVIDENCE OF NUMBERS WITH ORGANIZATIONS
THAT DO NOT WANT TO TAKE SIDES BUT WOULD BE FRELUCTANT TO POINT OUT THAT
THE NUMBERS ARE EXAGERRATED. IN ANY CASE WHAT WAS NORMAL CHRISTIAN
REACTION, AND APPARENTLY NOT A NORMAL REACTION FROM JEWS.
Casualties in WW2
Not including the documented 5 million non Jewish in concentration camps
who far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims. And this
is without lies and exaggerations about non jewish cassualities.
Soviet Union 25,568,000
China 11,324,000
Germany 7,060,000
Poland 6,850,000
Japan 1,806,000
Yugoslavia 1,700,000
Rumania 985,000
France 810,000
Austria 525,000
Italy 410,000
Great Britain 388,000
USA 295,000
Holland 250,000
Belgium 85,000
Finland 79,000
Canada 42,000
India 36,000
Australia 29,000
Albania 28,000
Spain 22,000
Bulgaria 21,000
New Zealand 12,000
Norway 10,000
South Africa 9,000
Luxembourg 5,000
Denmark 4,000
TOTAL 58,353,000
soc.culture.europe,
The Jewish ghetto police always had the option, she said, of "throwing off
their uniforms and joining the rest of us" - a point that Yitzak Zuckerman,
a leader of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, made in his memoir.
http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=2139
Read the Red Cross reports. Go to the Red Cross museum, headquarters
in your city and pick up the records. Anyway theres a few independent
witnesses.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Numbe
r=293321480
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
During World WarII, Rassinier was a highly decorated member of the French
Resistance. In October of 1943 he was arrested by the Gestapo for various
activities including the smuggling of Jewish refugees over the Franco-Swiss
border. http://www.codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/PORT1RAS.HTML
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2_Letters.html
On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A. Lindbergh
broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that when
Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WW2, he was
told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/lindbergh3.html
http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html
I, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are persons
with PhD's in various fields who
also deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Until
recently, there was never a forensic
examination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). Demographic figures
are incomplete. After the fall
of East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled Poland
into the Soviet Union or ended up
behind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many civilians
died in the war, many died in the
concentration camps of louse-born typhus. During World War One, two million
civilians in the Soviet Union died
of typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.
Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a Holocaust
Documentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged victims
of Nazi
extermination. But as you can see HERE
(http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann), nearly
every name is listed at least
twice, some as many as five times!
http://www.yadvashem.org/lwp/workplace/IY_HON_Welcome
Yad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearly
everyone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, including
you can submit a "Page of Testimony".
And of course we have lists duplicated, unconfirmed, but 3m according to our
usual jewish/Zionist sources.
Put your name in, you might be missing out on reparations.
Has been improvements since this, numbers still very dicey.
Name Town District Region
Country Bday Source
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1879 list of victims from Germany
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1879 list of deportation from Berlin
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1905 list of deportation from Berlin
It is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions with
louse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)
or diesel exhaust as alleged by malicious "witnesses" or tortured
confessors. There are no written orders for
extermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration camps
show no smoke and flames
belching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and records
show there was not enough coke or
crematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and confessors
lied about how many minutes it takes
to cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount of
carbon monoxide to kill a human. If
the Nazis wanted to kill millions they could have driven the coal fired
train into a tunnel or quonset hut and gassed
'em with the exhaust from the locomotive or used the exhaust from the
crematoria. At Auschwitz, during a typhus
epidemic, up to 300 people died per day, hence the crematoria, shaving of
heads and requisitions for tons of
Zyklon B louse disinfestant. HCN is a very dangerous, impractical, messy
method for extermination.
http://www.vho.org/
The Holocaust Controversy A Case for open Debate
The Gas Chambers are a fraud, a tourist attraction, slander, demonizing,
impractical/impossible, malicious
atrocity propaganda spread by the communists, who hated Hitler and
perpetrated by Jews, who were always
looking for ways to get to the lands of milk and money. The Jews have
extorted billions from the US Treasury,
Germany, Swiss banks and insurance companies on account of the Holohoax
fraud. The Holohoax also makes
those who fought Hitler feel like they did something good fighting the
demon, Hitler instead of letting Hitler take
on Stalin alone.
A "liberal" person has an open mind. A bigot is irrational and obstinate.
Without Jewish co operation through the zionists the Germans would never
have had the resources to herd the Jews into the various camps. And the
zionists made it impossible for the underground to trust the jews.
Like elsewhere, the only people who had the information and the ear of the
frightened Jewish population were the Judenrat. In this case the Judenrat
comprised mainly the Zionist Federation members. Without their help the SS,
with 19 officers and less than 90 men, plus a few hundred Hungarian police,
could not have collected and controlled a million Jews, when they did not
even know their whereabouts. Kastner and the others were left under no
illusions. Eichmann told Joel Brand, one of the members of Kastner's
committee, that he intended to send all Hungary's Jews to Auschwitz, before
he even started the expulsions! He told them clearly that all these Jews
will die, 12,000 a day, unless certain conditions were met.
http://www.geocities.com/chabaan_2000/safad.HTM
Is The same authors also describe co-operation between Zionist leaders and
Eichmann. It is interesting to note that the extreme right-wing revisionists
only chose wealthy Jews for emigration, whereas other Zionists insisted on
taking only young and healthy Jews. Eichmann helped them to carry out these
plans, in return for which the Zionist Organization paid large sums to the
Nazis. As Kimche says about the Zionist delegates in Germany: They had not
come to Germany to save Jews. That was not their job. When the Nazis began
the systematic murder of Jews in 1941, the Zionists decided neither to
support Jewish resistance in Europe, nor to attack the Nazis, nor to say
anything about the mass liquidation of their fellow Jews. Their sole purpose
was to save certain selected Jews as future settlers in Palestine. They were
not interested in Jews who wished to stay in their home countries and fight
the Nazis.
It is estimated that the actions of Pius XII directly led to the saving of
800,000 Jewish lives during the war. The estimate of 800,000 Jewish lives
is
based upon the testimony of the post-war government of the recently
created
State of Israel which recognized and honored that pope's contribution. The
Israelis recognized the figure and a forest of as many trees was planted
in
commemoration in the Negeb, SE of Jerusalem, and was shown to Pope Paul VI
with some ceremony on his first state visit to Israel. Rev. Fr. Jean
Charles-Roux, now a Rosininian priest living in London and whose father
was
French Ambassador to the Holy See in the 30's, lived with his family in
Rome
during the fateful pre-war period. He recalls that the Pope told his
father
as early as 1935 that the new regime in Germany was "diabolical." The
Ambassador frequently warned his government but the general reaction in
France seems to have been that it was good to see the back of the Prussian
militarist and that it was no bad thing that an Austrian-Czech house
painter
was now Chancellor.
The reaction in the USA and Britain was scarcely different at that time;
and
even later when they must have begun to know about the camps. The U.S.
government accepted a total of 10,000 - 15,000 Jewish refugees throughout
the war. - a truly scandalous statistic.
Britain was little better and before the war the government had been full
of
"appeasers," the Duke of Windsor visited Hitler and Lloyd George even went
so far as to call him "the greatest living German"!
Ambassador Charles-Roux's own government in Paris (and the British
government) were deaf to the pleas of the Vatican to assist the German
internal resistance to the Nazi government. From the very beginning Pius
XII
tried to persuade the Allied governments to support the German opposition
to
Hitler, but since they would not listen to men like the Anglican Bishop
Bell
of Chichester or to the few Jews who had escaped from Germany to Britain
and
America, they would not and did not listen to a Pope. Men like Adam von
Trott zu Sulz (he had been a Rhodes Scholar at Balliol), Peter Yorek von
Wartenburg and many other leading Germans who later formed the Kreisau
circle, made continuous, repeated, energetic and ultimately futile
attempts
to reach and persuade the British government to back, or even talk with,
the
German resistance to Hitler. They were all killed in the 20th July plot to
assassinate Hitler, the last in a long line of foiled attempts to get rid
of
the dictator, which was triggered by the Roman Catholic officer, Count
Claus
Schenk von Stauffenberg. Stauffenberg was shot out of hand. Other
conspirators were not so lucky. They were tried by the infamous "People's
Court" and hanged by piano wire from butchers' hooks of Ploetzensce
prison.
This was filmed on Hitler's orders so that he could watch it himself
later.
Count von Galen, the Roman Catholic Bishop of Munster, was another
outspoken
critic of the racial and eugenic policies of the Nazis and would
undoubtedly
have been liquidated by them if not for the prominence and prestige of his
position.
In August 1943 Pius XII received a plea from the World Jewish Congress to
try to persuade the Italian authorities to remove 20,000 Jewish refugees
from internment camps in Northern Italy. "Our terror-stricken brethren
look
to Your Holiness as the only hope for saving them from persecution and
death" they wrote. In September 1943, A.L. Easterman on behalf of the WJC
reported to the Apostolic Delegate in London (there was no Nuncio since
the
British government always refused to recognize the diplomatic rights of
the
Holy See-a hangover from our anti-
Catholic past). He reported that the efforts of the Holy See on behalf of
the Jews had been successful and wrote, "I feel sure that the efforts of
your Grace, and of the Holy See have brought about this fortunate result,
and I should like to express to the Holy See and yourself the warmest
thanks
of the World Jewish Congress."
Around the same time, the German Chief of Police in Rome threatened to
send
some 200 Jews to the Russian front unless they produced within 36 hours 50
kg of gold or equivalent in currency. The Chief Rabbi approached the Holy
See which immediately placed 15 kg at his disposal and lent the necessary
money free of charge. More than half the Jews of Rome were sheltered in
ecclesiastical buildings opened on the express instructions of Pius XII
himself. The Vatican Secretariat of State saved more Jews by faking their
baptisms and sending lists of "baptized" Jews to the German Ambassador,
Weizsacker, so that they could be evacuated. Many of those saved were
helped
to escape by the massive over-issuing of Vatican passports, particularly
in
the latter half of 1944, and records exist of many of these. However, this
had perforce to be handled with little or no ordinary documentary evidence
since the Nazis would without doubt have crushed this means of escape
immediately if they had become aware of the extent to which it was being
used to facilitate the rescue of Jews.
In November, 1943 Chief Rabbi Herzog wrote to Cardinal Roncalli, the
future
Pope John XXIII, then Apostolic Delegate for Turkey and Greece, saying: "I
take this opportunity to express to your Eminence my sincere thanks as
well
as my deep appreciation of your very kindly attitude to Israel and of the
invaluable help given by the Catholic Church to the Jewish people in its
affliction. Would you please convey these sentiments which come from Sion,
to His Holiness the Pope (Pius XII) along with the assurances that the
people of Israel know how to value his assistance and his attitude." The
American Jewish Welfare Board wrote to Pius XII in July 1944 to express
its
appreciation for the protection given to the Jews during the German
occupation of Italy. At the end of the war, the World Jewish Congress
expressed its gratitude to the Pope and gave 20 million Lire to Vatican
charities. A former Israeli diplomat in Italy claimed that: "The Catholic
Church saved more Jewish lives during the war than all the other Churches,
religious institutions and rescue organizations put together. Its record
stands in startling contrast to the achievements of the International Red
Cross and the Western Democracies."
The Pope protested particularly against the deportations of Jews in
Slovakia, Hungary and Vichy, France, since these were formerly Catholic
countries where Fascists had gained control and they still had a majority
of
Catholic citizens. In Hungary the Nunciature used thousands of blank and
forged forms to help Jews escape. A Red Cross worker even complained that
the use of forged documents was against the Geneva Convention! Happily
this
rather officious complaint did not prevent the Nuncio's covert operation
continuing.
Pope Pius XII knew Germany well, having previously been papal Nuncio
there.
It was he himself who wrote (after reading the first draft by Cardinal
Faulhaber of Munich) the criticism of racial policies in the Encyclical
Mit
Brennender Sorge (which means "with burning anxiety" i.e. about the Nazi
threat to racial minorities and specifically the Jews) addressed directly
to
the German people during the pontificate of Pope Pius XI. He wrote that
Catholics must never be anti-Semitic because "we are all Semites
spiritually" and ought to hold the Jewish people in high regard
accordingly.
As a matter of simple historical fact, Rabbi Israel Zolli, the Chief Rabbi
of Rome, was received into the Catholic Church in 1945 after the war was
over. He was baptized entirely of his own free will and asked Pius XII,
with
whom he had worked closely in the saving of Jewish lives, to be his
godfather. Dr. Zolli chose the name Eugenio a his baptismal name precisely
because it was Pius XII's own name.
These facts are rarely mentioned by commentators, yet they are clearly
vital
to any assessment of the reputation of Pius XII. Instead an insidious
campaign has been maintained against the good name of that Pope, largely
centering around the accusation that he kept silent during the war about
the
plight of the Jews and refused to mention them by name. It is now
generally
implied by some that this was so because he was racist and an anti-Semite.
It is difficult to conceive of a more detestable lie.
Pius XII, as Cardinal Pacelli, had a hand in writing the encyclical Non
Abbiamo Bisogno which condemned Italian Fascist doctrines, as well as
Divini
Redemptoris which opposed Soviet Communism and the massacres and
starvation
that were being perpetrated in its name in Russia (e.g. the 10 million
peasants starved to death in the Ukraine). Pius XII was a highly active,
energetic and zealous opponent of totalitarianism and oppression. Pope
Pius
XI issued the encyclical letter Mit Brennender Sorge in 1937 because he
was
the ruling Pope; but it was Cardinal Pacelli, later Pius XII, who wrote
it.
The German Roman Catholic hierarchy thanked Pope XI for the letter, which
condemned racism and anti-Semitism roundly, and the Pope pointed to
Cardinal
Pacelli saying it was he who had been responsible for it. Pius XII's first
encyclical in 1939, Summi Pontificatus, repeated the theme and the Gestapo
were immediately given orders by the Nazi leadership to prevent its
distribution.
Thereafter, Pius XII adopted his policy of not naming the Jews explicitly.
This was partly because his experience of the diplomatic "deafness" of the
Allied governments and partly because of his knowledge and experience of
the
increased persecution of Jews which followed the condemnatory statements
made in the two mentioned encyclicals.
He devoted himself instead to the covert rescue operation to save Jewish
lives, which was probably the most successful of all those attempted
particularly if one takes into account the saving of the Hungarian Jews
and
the joint actions of the Vatican and the papal Nuncio in Hungary at that
time. It is well recognized that the saviors of the Hungarian Jews were
the
papal Nuncio and the Swedish Embassy (in the person of Raoul Wallenberg),
both seeking to outwit the Chief Nazi murderer, Adolf Eichmann.
Pius XII followed the Dutch Roman Catholic hierarchy's plan to name the
Jews
explicitly in their condemnation of Nazi deportations and intended to
issue
a similar statement himself. The Nazis threatened to arrest more Jews. The
Dutch Reformed Church agreed not to protest openly but the Roman Catholic
hierarchy issued, in May 1943, their famous protest against the
deportations. The Nazis then launched an all-out offensive against Jews
(except those who had converted to the Dutch Protestant Reformed Church).
Ironically, it was the Dutch hierarchy's letter of open condemnation which
led to the arrest and execution of Edith Stein, the Jewish Roman Catholic
nun and philosopher.
The news of the increased persecution reached Pius XII. His own protest
was
due to go into L'Osservatore Romano that very evening but he had the draft
burnt saying "If the protest of the Dutch Bishops has cost the lives of
40,000 people, my intervention would take at least 200,000 people to their
deaths." (See II Seitimanale, 1 March 1975, p.40.) Such was the result of
openly naming the Jews; more death from vain gestures.
There is no doubt that if Pius XII had made such a vain gesture, instead
of
saving more Jewish lives, he would then have been open to the criticism of
having made the situation worse by vain and inopportune public statements.
Those who now criticize him for not saying enough would then have attacked
him for saying too much.
It is easy to forget that there was only so much that the Pope could do.
He
had no Army or police beyond the Swiss Guard and he was not listened to by
the Allied powers. Under constant surveillance and threats from the Nazis
when they occupied Rome, his statements were seized and destroyed by the
Gestapo. As for his influence with loyal Roman Catholics, he had already
spelt out precisely and forthrightly what his views and those of the
Church
were in the two above-mentioned encyclicals and in constant
re-affirmations
of his position in the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatoire. No loyal Roman
Catholic need have been in any doubt at the time what the Catholic
Church's
views on Nazism and racism were. The fact that some bad Catholics allowed
themselves to become involved with the Nazi terror cannot be blamed on
Pope
Pius XII-any more than the fact that there were Jewish Kapos and a Jewish
police helping the Nazis enforce their extermination policies can be
blamed
upon Jewish religious leaders. Pius XII plainly repudiated the perverted
doctrines of the Nazis and also the immoral Fascist doctrines of Benito
Mussolini (which had been condemned in the encyclical Non Abbiamo Bisogno
meaning "we have no need" i.e. of Fascist doctrines).
He is also sometimes criticized for not excommunicating Hitler, but Hitler
was already excommunicated ipso facto for a whole range of crimes and
could
only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever
have wanted to, by having his excommunication lifted by the Pope himself.
The lifting of the sentence was reserved to the Holy See, latae
sententiae.
Besides, the complaint assumes that Hitler took some notice of the Holy
See
and the Catholic Church. Insofar as he did, it was for purely political
reasons, since he was forced to recognize the influence of the Catholic
Church and the papacy. Hitler described himself as "a complete pagan" (see
Hitler's Table Talk) and regarded the Catholic Church as his greatest
enemy,
which he would destroy when he had the opportunity.
One must remember, too, that the Pope had a duty to his own flock, who
were
in equal danger if they spoke out against the Nazis. Prince Sapicha, the
Cardinal of Cracow in Poland, told the Pope, perfectly accurately, that if
there were open public denunciations Catholics and Jews would be massacred
in Poland. It was better to try and rescue as many as possible through the
religious houses and allow the opposition Army to build up (which it did -
the Armija Krajowa, the secret underground Army under General
Bor-Komorowski
which was later betrayed by the soviets and massacred by the Nazis). In
1940, 800 priests died in Buchenwald, 1,200 in 1942 and 3,000 in 1943. And
that was just Buchenwald.
Later, after the war was over, Pius XII received a large delegation of
Roman
Jews in the Vatican and ordered that the Imperial steps be opened for them
to enter by. These steps were usually reserved for crowned Heads of State
(although they were later opened once for President Charles de Gaulle).
The
Pope received them in the Sistine chapel and, seeing that his Jewish
visitors felt uncomfortable in that place, he came down from his throne
and
warmly welcomed them telling them to feel completely at home, saying "I am
only the Vicar of Christ but you are His very kith and kin". Such was his
great love for the Jewish people, augmented by his knowledge of their
terrible sufferings.
Oskar Schindler, a Roman Catholic, is regarded as a "righteous gentile" by
many Jews for saving the lives of some 3,000 - 4,000 Jews in his
factories.
Why then is Pope Pius XII so unjustly criticized, despite saving 800,000
Jewish lives?
--
----------
J Young
youngopinions@aol.com
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
05 Jun 2006 03:41:23 PM |
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In article <NELgg.3439$ap3.495@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "princeandy"
<andy@home.com> wrote:
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:MK2dnX8N6ahIpOzZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Over the last year a number of commentators have sought to rehash old and
ill-informed accusations in an attempt to undermine the reputation of Pope
Pius XII. His war-time effort to save Jewish lives has, amazingly, been
the
principal area of attack. The BBC program Reputations, repeated on 14th
February 1996, was one especially virulent attack. It was followed by a
review in The Times by religious affairs correspondent, Ruth Gledhill,
which
attacked Pius XII apparently on the strength of the BBC program alone.
Later, the producer of the program, Jonathan Lewis, attempted to explain
his
position in the liberal Catholic Journal The Tablet.
Pius XII was one of the few world leaders outside Jewry itself who was
quick
to recognize the danger of Nazism. Former Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide,
in his book The Last Three Popes and the Jews demonstrates convincingly
the
consistent and active protection provided to Jews in Europe by the papacy.
He does not shrink from strong criticism of other parts of the Catholic
Church where necessary and of some Catholic governments in particular.
Further, he commands respect from those reading from a Jewish perspective.
HOW WELL THOSSE JEWISH/ZIONIST HOLOHOAX LIES WORK.
YOU CANNOT DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT THE WAR WITHOUT COMING UP AGAINST THE
QUOTING HUGE AND UNREALISTIC FIGURES TO ENLIST CATHOLIC AND OTHER
PARTICIPATION BY PRAISE AND SOLIDIFY EVIDENCE OF NUMBERS WITH ORGANIZATIONS
THAT DO NOT WANT TO TAKE SIDES BUT WOULD BE FRELUCTANT TO POINT OUT THAT
THE NUMBERS ARE EXAGERRATED. IN ANY CASE WHAT WAS NORMAL CHRISTIAN
REACTION, AND APPARENTLY NOT A NORMAL REACTION FROM JEWS.
Casualties in WW2
Not including the documented 5 million non Jewish in concentration camps
who far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims. And this
is without lies and exaggerations about non jewish cassualities.
Soviet Union 25,568,000
China 11,324,000
Germany 7,060,000
Poland 6,850,000
Japan 1,806,000
Yugoslavia 1,700,000
Rumania 985,000
France 810,000
Austria 525,000
Italy 410,000
Great Britain 388,000
USA 295,000
Holland 250,000
Belgium 85,000
Finland 79,000
Canada 42,000
India 36,000
Australia 29,000
Albania 28,000
Spain 22,000
Bulgaria 21,000
New Zealand 12,000
Norway 10,000
South Africa 9,000
Luxembourg 5,000
Denmark 4,000
TOTAL 58,353,000
soc.culture.europe,
The Jewish ghetto police always had the option, she said, of "throwing off
their uniforms and joining the rest of us" - a point that Yitzak Zuckerman,
a leader of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, made in his memoir.
http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=2139
Read the Red Cross reports. Go to the Red Cross museum, headquarters
in your city and pick up the records. Anyway theres a few independent
witnesses.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Numbe
r=293321480
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
During World WarII, Rassinier was a highly decorated member of the French
Resistance. In October of 1943 he was arrested by the Gestapo for various
activities including the smuggling of Jewish refugees over the Franco-Swiss
border. http://www.codoh.com/thoughtcrimes/PORT1RAS.HTML
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2_Letters.html
On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A. Lindbergh
broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that when
Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WW2, he was
told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/WW2Timeline/lindbergh3.html
http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html
I, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are persons
with PhD's in various fields who
also deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Until
recently, there was never a forensic
examination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). Demographic figures
are incomplete. After the fall
of East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled Poland
into the Soviet Union or ended up
behind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many civilians
died in the war, many died in the
concentration camps of louse-born typhus. During World War One, two million
civilians in the Soviet Union died
of typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.
Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a Holocaust
Documentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged victims
of Nazi
extermination. But as you can see HERE
(http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann), nearly
every name is listed at least
twice, some as many as five times!
http://www.yadvashem.org/lwp/workplace/IY_HON_Welcome
Yad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearly
everyone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, including
you can submit a "Page of Testimony".
And of course we have lists duplicated, unconfirmed, but 3m according to our
usual jewish/Zionist sources.
Put your name in, you might be missing out on reparations.
Has been improvements since this, numbers still very dicey.
Name Town District Region
Country Bday Source
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1879 list of victims from Germany
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1879 list of deportation from Berlin
Friedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany
1905 list of deportation from Berlin
It is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions with
louse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)
or diesel exhaust as alleged by malicious "witnesses" or tortured
confessors. There are no written orders for
extermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration camps
show no smoke and flames
belching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and records
show there was not enough coke or
crematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and confessors
lied about how many minutes it takes
to cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount of
carbon monoxide to kill a human. If...
• The SS' records say 5.98 million Jews were exterminated.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
05 Jun 2006 01:05:48 AM |
|
|
In article <NELgg.3439$ap3.495@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "princeandy"
<andy@home.com> wrote:
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:MK2dnX8N6ahIpOzZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Over the last year a number of commentators have sought to rehash old and
ill-informed accusations in an attempt to undermine the reputation of Pope
Pius XII. His war-time effort to save Jewish lives has, amazingly, been
the
principal area of attack. The BBC program Reputations, repeated on 14th
February 1996, was one especially virulent attack. It was followed by a
review in The Times by religious affairs correspondent, Ruth Gledhill,
which
attacked Pius XII apparently on the strength of the BBC program alone.
Later, the producer of the program, Jonathan Lewis, attempted to explain
his
position in the liberal Catholic Journal The Tablet.
Pius XII was one of the few world leaders outside Jewry itself who was
quick
to recognize the danger of Nazism. Former Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide,
in his book The Last Three Popes and the Jews demonstrates convincingly
the
consistent and active protection provided to Jews in Europe by the papacy.
He does not shrink from strong criticism of other parts of the Catholic
Church where necessary and of some Catholic governments in particular.
Further, he commands respect from those reading from a Jewish perspective.
HOW WELL THOSSE JEWISH/ZIONIST HOLOHOAX LIES WORK.
YOU CANNOT DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT THE WAR WITHOUT COMING UP AGAINST THE
QUOTING HUGE AND UNREALISTIC FIGURES TO ENLIST CATHOLIC AND OTHER
PARTICIPATION BY PRAISE AND SOLIDIFY EVIDENCE OF NUMBERS WITH ORGANIZATIONS
THAT DO NOT WANT TO TAKE SIDES BUT WOULD BE FRELUCTANT TO POINT OUT THAT
THE NUMBERS ARE EXAGERRATED. IN ANY CASE WHAT WAS NORMAL CHRISTIAN
REACTION, AND APPARENTLY NOT A NORMAL REACTION FROM JEWS.
Casualties in WW2
Not including the documented 5 million non Jewish in concentration camps
who far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims. And this
is without lies and exaggerations about non jewish cassualities.
• According to SS records, they exterminated c. 5.98-million "Juden".
.
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| User: "Don Ocean" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
05 Jun 2006 02:04:52 AM |
|
|
•R L Measures wrote:
In article <NELgg.3439$ap3.495@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "princeandy"
<andy@home.com> wrote:
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:MK2dnX8N6ahIpOzZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Over the last year a number of commentators have sought to rehash old and
ill-informed accusations in an attempt to undermine the reputation of Pope
Pius XII. His war-time effort to save Jewish lives has, amazingly, been
the
principal area of attack. The BBC program Reputations, repeated on 14th
February 1996, was one especially virulent attack. It was followed by a
review in The Times by religious affairs correspondent, Ruth Gledhill,
which
attacked Pius XII apparently on the strength of the BBC program alone.
Later, the producer of the program, Jonathan Lewis, attempted to explain
his
position in the liberal Catholic Journal The Tablet.
Pius XII was one of the few world leaders outside Jewry itself who was
quick
to recognize the danger of Nazism. Former Israeli diplomat Pinchas Lapide,
in his book The Last Three Popes and the Jews demonstrates convincingly
the
consistent and active protection provided to Jews in Europe by the papacy.
He does not shrink from strong criticism of other parts of the Catholic
Church where necessary and of some Catholic governments in particular.
Further, he commands respect from those reading from a Jewish perspective.
HOW WELL THOSSE JEWISH/ZIONIST HOLOHOAX LIES WORK.
YOU CANNOT DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT THE WAR WITHOUT COMING UP AGAINST THE
QUOTING HUGE AND UNREALISTIC FIGURES TO ENLIST CATHOLIC AND OTHER
PARTICIPATION BY PRAISE AND SOLIDIFY EVIDENCE OF NUMBERS WITH ORGANIZATIONS
THAT DO NOT WANT TO TAKE SIDES BUT WOULD BE FRELUCTANT TO POINT OUT THAT
THE NUMBERS ARE EXAGERRATED. IN ANY CASE WHAT WAS NORMAL CHRISTIAN
REACTION, AND APPARENTLY NOT A NORMAL REACTION FROM JEWS.
Casualties in WW2
Not including the documented 5 million non Jewish in concentration camps
who far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims. And this
is without lies and exaggerations about non jewish cassualities.
• According to SS records, they exterminated c. 5.98-million "Juden".
Absolute Jewish Lie... There are no records of how many or of what
bloodline were killed. Yes there were a lot killed and a lot died from
camp diseases. But there is no clear cut record of numbers of deaths.
But do keep in mind the fucking Jews were instrumental in instigating
at the very least 2 world wars. If the greedy bastards had a conscience,
they would be responsible for the misery and deaths of hundreds of
millions of human beings over the centuries. 5.25 million Jews are
but a drop in the bucket in comparison to the misery and murder promoted
by the Jews. If the Jews were to become extinct tomorrow, the world
would instantly be a better place to live. They are not a chosen people
in any Gods. Sadly when we did get someone who would eradicate these
criminals we very soft heartedly saved these scum from their just
rewards. We will pay for that in American lives and treasure very dearly.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
05 Jun 2006 03:49:31 PM |
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In article <4ei39lF1drjbuU1@individual.net>, Don Ocean <ocean@amerion.com>
wrote:
•R L Measures wrote:
In article <NELgg.3439$ap3.495@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, "princeandy"
<andy@home.com> wrote:
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:MK2dnX8N6ahIpOzZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
...
• According to SS records, they exterminated c. 5.98-million "Juden".
Absolute Jewish Lie... There are no records of how many or of what
bloodline were killed.
• Bananas. The records show how much Zyklon-B was purchased from I. G.
Farben Gmbh and the cost of building the crematoria with the ingenious
human fat burning fire box..
Yes there were a lot killed and a lot died from
camp diseases.
• Such as breathing too much hydrogen cyanide gas.
But there is no clear cut record of numbers of deaths.
• right down to the number of gypsies killed and the number of Juden killed.
But do keep in mind the fucking ...
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| User: "Attila2" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
05 Jun 2006 04:36:16 AM |
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More off topic religious propagandizing.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
05 Jun 2006 09:06:16 AM |
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In article <lnu782lt731tt1b660gmg1it9hk40pt672@4ax.com>,
Attila2 <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
More off topic religious propagandizing.
poor senile attila still doesn't recognize the connection between the
roman catholic church and abortion.
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: CC convent at Auschwitz |
22 May 2006 04:50:26 AM |
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In article <MK2dnX8N6ahIpOzZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
<youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
http://www.catholicleague.org/pius/realstory.htm
Over the last year a number of commentators have sought to rehash old and
ill-informed accusations in an attempt to undermine the reputation of Pope
Pius XII. His war-time effort to save Jewish lives has, amazingly, been the
principal area of attack. The BBC program Reputations, repeated on 14th
February 1996, was one especially virulent attack. It was followed by a
review in The Times by religious affairs correspondent, Ruth Gledhill, which
attacked Pius XII apparently on the strength of the BBC program alone.
Later, the producer of the program, Jonathan Lewis, attempted to explain his
position in the liberal Catholic Journal The Tablet.
Pius XII was one of the few world leaders outside Jewry itself who was quick
to recognize the danger of Nazism. ...
• So why, after the RCC convent in Auschwitz, Poland reported that the
Nazis were burning large numbers humans at its Auschwitz-Birkenau slave
labor camp, did Cardinal Tisserant plead - to no avail - with Pius XII /
Eugenio Pacelli to tell the world what was taking place there? Also,
after the war, why did Pius XII issue Vatican passports to Dr. Joseph
Mengele and Adolph Eichmann so that they could escape to South America?
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| User: "FERRANTE" |
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| Title: Re: CC convent at Auschwitz |
22 May 2006 04:24:39 PM |
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• So why, after the RCC convent in Auschwitz, Poland reported that the
Nazis were burning large numbers humans at its Auschwitz-Birkenau slave
labor camp, did Cardinal Tisserant plead - to no avail - with Pius XII /
Eugenio Pacelli to tell the world what was taking place there? Also,
after the war, why did Pius XII issue Vatican passports to Dr. Joseph
Mengele and Adolph Eichmann so that they could escape to South America?
Because the Pope was afraid for the 40+ million Catholics in Germany.
Many people were hid in the Vatican and it was the Americans that
allowed so many war criminals to escape.
The Americans had surveillance (taken from low-flying aircraft) and
was well aware of what was going on long before we invaded those
camps.
Mark
'Quod scripsi scripsi' - 'What I have written I have Written.'-- Pontius Pilate
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: CC convent at Auschwitz |
22 May 2006 07:38:20 PM |
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In article <fqa47298fkkspcno5cblfr9a0mbgjlkb14@4ax.com>, FERRANTE
<ferrante276-ng@yahoo.com> wrote:
• So why, after the RCC convent in Auschwitz, Poland reported that the
Nazis were burning large numbers humans at its Auschwitz-Birkenau slave
labor camp, did Cardinal Tisserant plead - to no avail - with Pius XII /
Eugenio Pacelli to tell the world what was taking place there? Also,
after the war, why did Pius XII issue Vatican passports to Dr. Joseph
Mengele and Adolph Eichmann so that they could escape to South America?
Because the Pope was afraid for the 40+ million Catholics in Germany.
• Catholics controlled the Third Reich.
Many people were hid in the Vatican and it was the Americans that
allowed so many war criminals to escape.
• So it was those damned Americans who forced Pius XII to issue Vatican
passports to Eichmann and Mengle?
The Americans had surveillance (taken from low-flying aircraft) and
was well aware of what was going on long before we invaded those
camps.
• Auschwitz-Birkenau provided workers for the nearby I. G. Farben
synthetic rubber plant, so the role of the camp was somewhat unclear.
Also, the only Allied bomber that could carry a significant payload from
England to E. Poland was the B-29, an airplane that was deployed only in
the Pacific Theatre.
cheers, Mark
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| User: "Attila2" |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 02:39:46 PM |
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On Mon, 22 May 2006 00:11:07 -0400, <youngopinions@aol.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<MK2dnX8N6ahIpOzZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
More off topic religious propagandizing.
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: The Real Story of Pope Pius XII and the Jews |
22 May 2006 05:00:34 PM |
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In article <mr44721ucspqcd5djdcc6o7abnkuc4fh3i@4ax.com>,
Attila2 <prochoice@here.now> wrote:
On Mon, 22 May 2006 00:11:07 -0400, <youngopinions@aol.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<MK2dnX8N6ahIpOzZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:
More off topic religious propagandizing.
you continue to demonstrate your ignorance of usenet newsgroups,
scumball, and your disrespect for readers' ability to decide for
themselves what is and is not appropriate.
do you feel like a hypocrite criticizing others for doing what you
do? even osprey has legitimately commented on your hypocrisy.
your hypocrisy aside, what you might want to do to make yourself feel
like an even bigger ***** is take a random sample of posts you've
whined about and then search google for the number of posts with this
topic, demonstrating that readers know what is of interest to them
far better than you do.
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