| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Javriol" |
| Date: |
17 Aug 2005 05:38:20 PM |
| Object: |
TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
Editorial of Bizarre news:
I was just glancing over drudgereport.com and noticed a
story from "This is London" about a new controversy sur-
rounding baby sex selection.
Sex selection is allowed by the Human Fertilization and
Embryology Authority (HFEA) in order to avoid babies being
born with sex linked disorders such as hemophilia. But
its use for family balancing was opposed by the fertility
watchdog after a public consultation.
Now, after 15 years, the topic of whether couples should
be allowed to choose the sex of their babies to "balance"
their families is to be discussed in a public consultation
again.
The consultation is asking if sex selection were more widely
available, how many children of one gender should a couple
already have before they are allowed to use screening tech-
niques to try for a child of another gender.
This question is especially relevant in light of the crisis
in India where abortion has been used for years to eliminate
unwanted female babies, resulting in a dearth of marriage
prospects for young Indian men.
What do you think? Should parents be allowed to choose the
sex of their children before even conceiving? And if you're
a single woman of marriageable age would you consider moving
to Calcutta for some hot Indian loving?
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
17 Aug 2005 11:37:06 PM |
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Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.
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| User: "Mark Stahl" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 03:19:10 PM |
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"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:b048g1t59u9pcd1b1v7g3b6uejule6ocd8@4ax.com...
Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
This is just not true by any meaningful definition of "natural selection."
It is virtually the opposite; it is artificial selection. It's basically the
epitome of the difference between artificial and natural selection... if
not, we may as well drop the term "natural".
In this case, I think it's a particularly bad example of artificial
selection, based on a perfectly normal trait (gender) as opposed to
something perhaps more defensible such as a severe genetic disease that we
are actively trying to eradicate. Should push come to shove, I certainly
support someone's right to construct their family however they want, free of
government interference, but my medical and personal advice would be
*strongly* against such a practice.
.
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 03:22:07 PM |
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"Mark Stahl" <stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> said:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:b048g1t59u9pcd1b1v7g3b6uejule6ocd8@4ax.com...
Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
This is just not true by any meaningful definition of "natural selection."
It is virtually the opposite; it is artificial selection. It's basically the
epitome of the difference between artificial and natural selection... if
not, we may as well drop the term "natural".
Under biological naturalism, humans are no less natural than any other
animal.
--- Jim07D5
.
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| User: "Mark Stahl" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
19 Aug 2005 03:09:50 PM |
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"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:r7r9g19nfpp3159flau9vbf0ll0sqnlgjc@4ax.com...
"Mark Stahl" <stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> said:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:b048g1t59u9pcd1b1v7g3b6uejule6ocd8@4ax.com...
Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
This is just not true by any meaningful definition of "natural selection."
It is virtually the opposite; it is artificial selection. It's basically
the
epitome of the difference between artificial and natural selection... if
not, we may as well drop the term "natural".
Under biological naturalism, humans are no less natural than any other
animal.
Obviously humans are natural animals. But if the word "artificial" is to
have any meaning at all in contrast to "natural", we make distinctions
between that which is intentionally done by people and those which aren't.
Sex selection based on aesthetic or other preference via abortion is about
as artificial as you can get.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
19 Aug 2005 04:15:58 PM |
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On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:09:50 -0400, in alt.atheism , "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> in
<pdadnZ2dnZ3A5hi3nZ2dnVSmm96dnZ2dRVn-y52dnZ0@giganews.com> wrote:
"Jim07D5" <Jim07D5@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:r7r9g19nfpp3159flau9vbf0ll0sqnlgjc@4ax.com...
"Mark Stahl" <stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> said:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:b048g1t59u9pcd1b1v7g3b6uejule6ocd8@4ax.com...
Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
This is just not true by any meaningful definition of "natural selection."
It is virtually the opposite; it is artificial selection. It's basically
the
epitome of the difference between artificial and natural selection... if
not, we may as well drop the term "natural".
Under biological naturalism, humans are no less natural than any other
animal.
Obviously humans are natural animals. But if the word "artificial" is to
have any meaning at all in contrast to "natural", we make distinctions
between that which is intentionally done by people and those which aren't.
Sex selection based on aesthetic or other preference via abortion is about
as artificial as you can get.
We have the natural/artificial distinction and the
natural/supernatural distinction. And then we have the *name* "Natural
Selection", which refers to a process by which some things live to
reproduce based on inherited characteristics and some don't. If the
*name* causes you trouble here, then think of the summary:
differential reproductive success due, at least in part, to inherited
characteristics. That is what the name Natural Selection refers to.
Please note that there is no exemption there (or in Darwin's writings
or in subsequent biology) for human actions. In fact, Darwin wrote a
whole book on sexual selection as a form of natural selection and
discussed human selection there.
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.
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| User: "Javriol" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
20 Aug 2005 11:31:31 AM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
We have the natural/artificial distinction and the
natural/supernatural distinction. And then we have the *name* "Natural
Selection", which refers to a process by which some things live to
reproduce based on inherited characteristics and some don't
You have to undertsand that to many natural selction is presented as
survival of the fittest per ramdon chance. The example I gave about
selecting what embryo is going to survive or not fall in that category.
Females are aborted in India, because inheritance are pass by the
female. People with no daughters, have not to give anything away. But
boys have all to gain.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 03:54:42 PM |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:19:10 -0400, in alt.atheism , "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> in <nNGdnSO66Z3mcZneRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
wrote:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:b048g1t59u9pcd1b1v7g3b6uejule6ocd8@4ax.com...
Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
This is just not true by any meaningful definition of "natural selection."
It is virtually the opposite; it is artificial selection. It's basically the
epitome of the difference between artificial and natural selection... if
not, we may as well drop the term "natural".
So drop it. Drop the name if you like, what matters is whether or not
there is differential reproductive success due to genetic
characteristics. You look at all reproduction and all death before
reproduction, if there is a difference in rates due to a genetic
characteristic, that is selection.
In this case, I think it's a particularly bad example of artificial
selection, based on a perfectly normal trait (gender) as opposed to
something perhaps more defensible such as a severe genetic disease that we
are actively trying to eradicate.
By "bad" I assume you mean immoral. If so, I am not about to discuss
what is or it not moral here.
Should push come to shove, I certainly
support someone's right to construct their family however they want, free of
government interference, but my medical and personal advice would be
*strongly* against such a practice.
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.
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| User: "Mark Stahl" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
19 Aug 2005 03:12:51 PM |
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"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:e7t9g15ho6r1526b5k2rcnu5boc5cni9po@4ax.com...
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:19:10 -0400, in alt.atheism , "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> in <nNGdnSO66Z3mcZneRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
wrote:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:b048g1t59u9pcd1b1v7g3b6uejule6ocd8@4ax.com...
Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
This is just not true by any meaningful definition of "natural selection."
It is virtually the opposite; it is artificial selection. It's basically
the
epitome of the difference between artificial and natural selection... if
not, we may as well drop the term "natural".
So drop it. Drop the name if you like, what matters is whether or not
there is differential reproductive success due to genetic
characteristics. You look at all reproduction and all death before
reproduction, if there is a difference in rates due to a genetic
characteristic, that is selection.
My only point was that the selection in this case was not "natural" but
"artificial". That's all.
In this case, I think it's a particularly bad example of artificial
selection, based on a perfectly normal trait (gender) as opposed to
something perhaps more defensible such as a severe genetic disease that we
are actively trying to eradicate.
By "bad" I assume you mean immoral.
Well, maybe, but I really just mean it's a bad idea, mostly for practical
reasons. A 50/50 sex ratio is a good thing, given the prevelance of
heterosexuality in the population and the degree of unhappiness generated
when suitable mates aren't available.
If so, I am not about to discuss
what is or it not moral here.
Why? I assume that's why the OP brought it up at all. That and the practical
part.
Should push come to shove, I certainly
support someone's right to construct their family however they want, free
of
government interference, but my medical and personal advice would be
*strongly* against such a practice.
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
19 Aug 2005 04:17:49 PM |
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On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:12:51 -0400, in alt.atheism , "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> in
<2OudnZ2dnZ3gvxD6nZ2dneOhm96dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@giganews.com> wrote:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:e7t9g15ho6r1526b5k2rcnu5boc5cni9po@4ax.com...
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:19:10 -0400, in alt.atheism , "Mark Stahl"
<stahl@nospam.aecom.yu.edu> in <nNGdnSO66Z3mcZneRVn-3Q@giganews.com>
wrote:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:b048g1t59u9pcd1b1v7g3b6uejule6ocd8@4ax.com...
Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
This is just not true by any meaningful definition of "natural selection."
It is virtually the opposite; it is artificial selection. It's basically
the
epitome of the difference between artificial and natural selection... if
not, we may as well drop the term "natural".
So drop it. Drop the name if you like, what matters is whether or not
there is differential reproductive success due to genetic
characteristics. You look at all reproduction and all death before
reproduction, if there is a difference in rates due to a genetic
characteristic, that is selection.
My only point was that the selection in this case was not "natural" but
"artificial". That's all.
Artificial selection is a sub-set of natural selection. Humans don't
violate natural laws.
In this case, I think it's a particularly bad example of artificial
selection, based on a perfectly normal trait (gender) as opposed to
something perhaps more defensible such as a severe genetic disease that we
are actively trying to eradicate.
By "bad" I assume you mean immoral.
Well, maybe, but I really just mean it's a bad idea, mostly for practical
reasons. A 50/50 sex ratio is a good thing, given the prevelance of
heterosexuality in the population and the degree of unhappiness generated
when suitable mates aren't available.
If so, I am not about to discuss
what is or it not moral here.
Why? I assume that's why the OP brought it up at all. That and the practical
part.
Nope, he brought it up because he has this silly idea that if
evolution has consequences we don't like, or if processes we don't
like are part of evolution, then it is reasonable to rejected
evolution. Either that or because these things are natural we can't
judge them. Either way he is wrong.
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.
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| User: "Javriol" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 04:31:11 AM |
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You missed the point. People are selecting what children they are
going to have. In India Abortion is used as tool to get rid of girls.
do you know why? ( the answe would probly shock the american
abortionist who claim abortion is rape victims)
Matt Silberstein wrote:
Ballistic missiles are examples of gravity in action. That I oppose
ICBMs does not mean that I think that gravity does not exist or is
wrong. All reproduction, and all death before reproduction, is natural
selection in action. All thrown rocks are gravity in action. Some
break windows, kill people, some just land.
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 12:33:32 PM |
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On 18 Aug 2005 02:31:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Javriol"
<javriol@gmail.com> in
<1124357471.711122.145780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:
You missed the point. People are selecting what children they are
going to have. In India Abortion is used as tool to get rid of girls.
I dealt with the only point that was relevant to evolutionary biology.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
Jim Steinman
.
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| User: "Cracklin" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection or the whole TUNE? :-) |
18 Aug 2005 02:28:15 PM |
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"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
=================
I love this tune. It's by Meatloaf. :-) I remember it well from the 1970s.
Here's the whole song:
Paradise By The Dashboard Light
BOY:
I remember every little thing
As if it happened only yesterday
Parking by the lake
And there was not another car in sight
And I never had a girl
Looking any better than you did
And all the kids at school
They were wishing they were me that night
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing the the metal on the edge of a knife
Glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonely in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
GIRL:
Ain't no doubt about it
We were doubly blessed
Cause we were barely seventeen
And we were barely dressed
Ain't no doubt about it
Baby got to go and shout it
Ain't no doubt about it
We were doubly blessed
BOY:
Cause we were barely seventeen
And we were barely dressed
Baby doncha hear my heart
You got it drowning out the radio
I've been waiting so long
For you to come along and have some fun
And I gotta let ya know
No you're never gonna regret it
So open up your eyes I got a big surprise
It'll feel all right
Well I wanna make your motor run
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing the the metal on the edge of a knife
Glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonely in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
You got to do what you can
And let Mother Naure do the rest
Ain't no doubt about it
We were doubly blessed
Cause we were barely seventeen
and we were barely --
we're gonna go all the way tongiht
we're gonna go all the way
and tonight the night....
RADIO BROADCAST:
Ok here we go, we got a real pressure cooker going here, two down, nobody
on, no
score, bottom of the ninth, there's the wind-up, and there it is, a line
shot up the
middle, look at him go. This boy can really fly! He's rounding first and
really turning
it on now, he's not letting up at all, he's gonna try for second; the ball
is bobbled out
in center, and here comes the throw, and what a throw! He's gonna slide in
head first,
here he comes, he's out! No, wait, safe - safe at second base, this kid
really makes
things happen out there. Batter steps up to the plate here's the pitch -
he's going, and
what a jump he's got, he's trying for third, here's the throw, its in the
dirt - safe at
third! Holy cow, stolen base! He's taking a pretty big lead out there,
almost daring
him to try and pick him off. The pitcher glances over, winds up, and it
bunted,
bunted down the third base line, the suicide squeeze is on! Here he comes,
squeeze
play, it's gonna be close, here's the throw, here's the play at the plate,
holy cow, I
think he's gonna make it!
II. Let Me Sleep On It
GIRL:
Stop right there!
I gotta know right now!
Before we go any further --!
Do you love me?
Will you love me forever?
Do you need me?
Will you never leave me?
Will you make me so happy for the rest of my life?
Will you take me away and will you make me your wife?
Do you love me?
Will you love me forever?
Do you need me?
Will you never leave me?
Will you make me so happy for the rest of my life?
Will you take me away and will you make me your wife?
I gotta know right now
Before we go any further
Do you love me !!!?
Will you love me forever !!!?
BOY:
Let me sleep on it
Baby, baby let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
And I'll give you an answer in the morning
Let me sleep on it
Baby, baby let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
And I'll give you an answer in the morning
Let me sleep on it
Baby, baby let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
And I'll give you an answer in the morning
GIRL:
I gotta know right now!
Do you love me?
Will you love me forever?
Do you need me?
Will you never leave me?
Will you make me so happy for the rest of my life?
Will you take me away and will you make me your wife?
I gotta know right now!
Before we go any further
Do you love me?
Will you love me forever?
BOY:
Let me sleep on it
Baby, baby let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
And I'll give you an answer in the morning
Let me sleep on it !!!
GIRL: Will you love me forever?
BOY: Let me sleep on it!!
GIRL:
Will you love me forever?
III. Praying for the End of Time
BOY:
I couldn't take it any longer
Lord I was crazed
And when the feeling came upon me
Like a tidal wave
I started swearing to my God and on my mother's grave
That I would love you to the end of time
I swore that I would love you to the end of time!
So now I'm praying for the end of time
To hurry up and arrive
Cause if I gotta spend another minute with you
I don't think that I can really survive
I'll never break my promise or forget my vow
But God only knows what I can do right now
I'm praying for the end of time
It's all that I can do
Praying for the end of time, so I can end my time with you!!!
BOY:
It was long ago and it was far away
And it was so much better than it is today
GIRL:
It never felt so good
It never felt so right
And we were glowing like
A metal on the edge of a knife
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection or the whole TUNE? :-) |
18 Aug 2005 03:56:19 PM |
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On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 14:28:15 -0500, in alt.atheism , "Cracklin'"
<c@c.c> in <4304d9e6$0$16578$8f2e0ebb@news.shared-secrets.com> wrote:
"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message
And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
It never felt so good, it never felt so right
And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
C'mon! Hold on tight!
C'mon! Hold on tight!
Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
I can see paradise by the dashboard light
Paradise by the dashboard light
=================
I love this tune. It's by Meatloaf. :-)
No, it was written by Jim Steinman. Meatloaf sang it.
--
Matt Silberstein
Will you hold me sacred?
Will you hold me tight?
Can you colorize my life I'm so sick of black and white?
Can you make it all a little less old?
_I would do anything for love_ by Jim Steinman
.
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| User: "Javriol" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection or the whole TUNE? :-) |
18 Aug 2005 05:48:30 PM |
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No, it was written by Jim Steinman. Meatloaf sang it.
Give you very good insight on Carol's knowledge. She does a websearch,
and then she pretends she knows. What she us doing is trying to be
friendly with you. Find some common ground and then she will manipulate
you in her JW bashing.
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| User: "Javriol" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 01:58:49 PM |
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
On 18 Aug 2005 02:31:11 -0700, in alt.atheism , "Javriol"
<javriol@gmail.com> in
<1124357471.711122.145780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> wrote:
You missed the point. People are selecting what children they are
going to have. In India Abortion is used as tool to get rid of girls.
I dealt with the only point that was relevant to evolutionary biology.
[snip]
Still in either case it would not be considered natural selection.
However I can make a case for it. If I was to play devils advocate.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
17 Aug 2005 09:47:29 PM |
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Javriol wrote in message
<1124318300.556139.138560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>...
Editorial of Bizarre news:
I was just glancing over drudgereport.com and noticed a
story from "This is London" about a new controversy sur-
rounding baby sex selection.
Sex selection is allowed by the Human Fertilization and
Embryology Authority (HFEA)
That has a rather Orwellian ring to it.
in order to avoid babies being
born with sex linked disorders such as hemophilia. But
its use for family balancing was opposed by the fertility
watchdog after a public consultation.
Now, after 15 years, the topic of whether couples should
be allowed to choose the sex of their babies to "balance"
their families is to be discussed in a public consultation
again.
The consultation is asking if sex selection were more widely
available, how many children of one gender should a couple
already have before they are allowed to use screening tech-
niques to try for a child of another gender.
This question is especially relevant in light of the crisis
in India where abortion has been used for years to eliminate
unwanted female babies, resulting in a dearth of marriage
prospects for young Indian men.
What do you think? Should parents be allowed to choose the
sex of their children before even conceiving? And if you're
a single woman of marriageable age would you consider moving
to Calcutta for some hot Indian loving?
- Rick
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 04:07:20 PM |
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In article <wLudnZ2dnZ3pBTnonZ2dnY9qnt6dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0
@giganews.com>, Rick said...
Sex selection is allowed by the Human Fertilization and
Embryology Authority (HFEA)
That has a rather Orwellian ring to it.
I'd say it sounds more (Adldous) Huxleyan than Orwellian.
In Orwell's Oceania, a governmental agency that specialized in
terminating undesirable pregnancies would be called something
like "the Ministry of Birth."
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "Jim07D5" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 05:22:35 PM |
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Brian E. Clark <reply@newsgroup.only.please> said:
In article <wLudnZ2dnZ3pBTnonZ2dnY9qnt6dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0
@giganews.com>, Rick said...
Sex selection is allowed by the Human Fertilization and
Embryology Authority (HFEA)
That has a rather Orwellian ring to it.
I'd say it sounds more (Adldous) Huxleyan than Orwellian.
In Orwell's Oceania, a governmental agency that specialized in
terminating undesirable pregnancies would be called something
like "the Ministry of Birth."
And anti-abortionists would be called "pro-life". Heh. Couldn't happen
here.
--- Jim07D5
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: TOBS: Abortion; Natural Selection in action? |
18 Aug 2005 05:11:40 PM |
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Brian E. Clark wrote in message ...
In article <wLudnZ2dnZ3pBTnonZ2dnY9qnt6dnZ2dRVn-052dnZ0
@giganews.com>, Rick said...
Sex selection is allowed by the Human Fertilization and
Embryology Authority (HFEA)
That has a rather Orwellian ring to it.
I'd say it sounds more (Adldous) Huxleyan than Orwellian.
In Orwell's Oceania, a governmental agency that specialized in
terminating undesirable pregnancies would be called something
like "the Ministry of Birth."
Makes sense.
- Rick
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