| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
03 Nov 2004 08:25:04 AM |
| Object: |
Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
Once again Democratic Voters have to ask themselves, "Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death
again?" If you are a hardcore political watcher like myself then you would agree that
coming out of the debates and the media hyped weapons story, should have given John Kerry
an edge, but in the last days of the election, Kerry chose to campaign with Bill Clinton in
must win states and, except for Pennsylavia, Kerry lost states that Bill Clinton campaigned
in for him. Will hardcore Democrats ever get the message that the Clinton Era is over and
it is time to move on to something else?
.
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| User: "Snit" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
03 Nov 2004 10:31:01 PM |
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"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in post
on 11/3/04 9:24 PM:
On 2004-11-04 01:25:04 +1100, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> said:
Once again Democratic Voters have to ask themselves, "Was Bill Clinton
the kiss of death again?" If you are a hardcore political watcher like
myself then you would agree that coming out of the debates and the
media hyped weapons story, should have given John Kerry an edge, but in
the last days of the election, Kerry chose to campaign with Bill
Clinton in must win states and, except for Pennsylavia, Kerry lost
states that Bill Clinton campaigned in for him. Will hardcore Democrats
ever get the message that the Clinton Era is over and it is time to
move on to something else?
Well, there were a couple of good points raised by some politics
related reporters; the biggest one was how little one saw of Edwards -
had Edwards been allowed to do his magic with his sweet southern
accent, it would have bought in voters from all ends of the spectrum.
Edwards should have worked the conservative southern states, and John
working the more liberal northern.
The second problem, which I agree with, is that there is *very* little
that seperated Kerry and Bush in the end in regards to tbe big issues.
You could say that Kerry is a "Bush Light", without the religious
rhetoric.
As for Clinton, when you start wheeling out past politicians, you know
you're in trouble; if you can't stand on your own two feet and thus
require former politicians to come back from retirement, then you might
as well throw in the towel.
Another commentary that I heard, that makes a lot of sense, is that Bush
speaks to the emotional side of people, Kerry to the intellectual side, and
it is the emotional side that people are often most persuaded by.
Before the right wingers jump in here and suggest I am saying that there was
no logic to Bush's goals, or no emotion to Kerry's speeches, that is not at
all what I am suggesting.
Kerry could have stated the same things he did, had the same positions, but
worded things differently. Talk about his passion for making the US a
better place, his burning desire to reduce the gross inequality of the rich
and the poor, etc... he may very well have won.
I would have preferred to have Kerry win, but Kerry is a very left brained
thinker... he does not express his emotions well. Bush does not share that
weakness.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://smallurl.com/?i=15235)
.
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| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
03 Nov 2004 10:41:42 PM |
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|
"Snit" <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message
news:BDAEFE95.EC64%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID...
"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in post
2utp8kF2evcb0U2@uni-berlin.de
on 11/3/04 9:24 PM:
On 2004-11-04 01:25:04 +1100, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> said:
Once again Democratic Voters have to ask themselves, "Was Bill Clinton
the kiss of death again?" If you are a hardcore political watcher like
myself then you would agree that coming out of the debates and the
media hyped weapons story, should have given John Kerry an edge, but in
the last days of the election, Kerry chose to campaign with Bill
Clinton in must win states and, except for Pennsylavia, Kerry lost
states that Bill Clinton campaigned in for him. Will hardcore Democrats
ever get the message that the Clinton Era is over and it is time to
move on to something else?
Well, there were a couple of good points raised by some politics
related reporters; the biggest one was how little one saw of Edwards -
had Edwards been allowed to do his magic with his sweet southern
accent, it would have bought in voters from all ends of the spectrum.
Edwards should have worked the conservative southern states, and John
working the more liberal northern.
The second problem, which I agree with, is that there is *very* little
that seperated Kerry and Bush in the end in regards to tbe big issues.
You could say that Kerry is a "Bush Light", without the religious
rhetoric.
As for Clinton, when you start wheeling out past politicians, you know
you're in trouble; if you can't stand on your own two feet and thus
require former politicians to come back from retirement, then you might
as well throw in the towel.
Another commentary that I heard, that makes a lot of sense, is that Bush
speaks to the emotional side of people, Kerry to the intellectual side,
and
it is the emotional side that people are often most persuaded by.
This is what made Ronald Reagan so popular. Not only was he able to speak
on the intellectual side, he was able to use emotions as well. He made
people feel good
when he talked, people listened to Ronald Reagan. Whether you liked him or
not,
he was able to make people in this country feel good to be American's.
Gore, made the mistake of trying to speak too intelligently. Giving
American's the
perception that he was looking down on people. I do think that Kerry made
this mistake as well.
Before the right wingers jump in here and suggest I am saying that there
was
no logic to Bush's goals, or no emotion to Kerry's speeches, that is not
at
all what I am suggesting.
Maybe the first thing we need to do is drop the right winger, left winger
crap and lets
just stick with the issues. This campaign has been exhausing, ugly, and
divided this country.
It is time to mend the wounds, come together, and focus on the
issues..regardless of whether we
agree or not.
Kerry could have stated the same things he did, had the same positions,
but
worded things differently. Talk about his passion for making the US a
better place, his burning desire to reduce the gross inequality of the
rich
and the poor, etc... he may very well have won.
I would have preferred to have Kerry win, but Kerry is a very left brained
thinker... he does not express his emotions well. Bush does not share
that
weakness.
There are a few factors that everyone needs to remember.
Now, before people stepped into the booth...I am sure many said who they
were going to vote for.
But once they stepped into that booth, things change. People think
differently, and they think
about just how serious their vote is.
Never in America's history has American's voted OUT a war time president.
This has never happened, and most likely never will.
American's are very reluctant to change horses midstream. So in a sense,
Kerry was defeated from the beginning, as any other challenger probably was
as well.
Another issue that has hurt the Democrats is the gay marriage issue.
Americans just are not ready to give up on the idea of marriage being
between a man and a woman. And I doubt we will see that change any time
soon.
The war and the gay marriage issue is what hurt John Kerry. That is my
opinion.
And I remember saying several months ago, Bush wouldn't lose based on the
fact that American's will not change horses midstream.
.
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| User: "Snit" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
03 Nov 2004 10:44:16 PM |
|
|
"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in post
TJSdnfg889DwLxTcRVn-qg@comcast.com on 11/3/04 9:41 PM:
Once again Democratic Voters have to ask themselves, "Was Bill Clinton
the kiss of death again?" If you are a hardcore political watcher like
myself then you would agree that coming out of the debates and the
media hyped weapons story, should have given John Kerry an edge, but in
the last days of the election, Kerry chose to campaign with Bill
Clinton in must win states and, except for Pennsylavia, Kerry lost
states that Bill Clinton campaigned in for him. Will hardcore Democrats
ever get the message that the Clinton Era is over and it is time to
move on to something else?
Well, there were a couple of good points raised by some politics
related reporters; the biggest one was how little one saw of Edwards -
had Edwards been allowed to do his magic with his sweet southern
accent, it would have bought in voters from all ends of the spectrum.
Edwards should have worked the conservative southern states, and John
working the more liberal northern.
The second problem, which I agree with, is that there is *very* little
that seperated Kerry and Bush in the end in regards to tbe big issues.
You could say that Kerry is a "Bush Light", without the religious
rhetoric.
As for Clinton, when you start wheeling out past politicians, you know
you're in trouble; if you can't stand on your own two feet and thus
require former politicians to come back from retirement, then you might
as well throw in the towel.
Another commentary that I heard, that makes a lot of sense, is that Bush
speaks to the emotional side of people, Kerry to the intellectual side, and
it is the emotional side that people are often most persuaded by.
This is what made Ronald Reagan so popular. Not only was he able to speak on
the intellectual side, he was able to use emotions as well. He made people
feel good when he talked, people listened to Ronald Reagan. Whether you liked
him or not, he was able to make people in this country feel good to be
American's.
I agree. I was never a fan of Reagan, but the man spoke well - and focused
on the emotional aspects very well.
Gore, made the mistake of trying to speak too intelligently. Giving
American's the perception that he was looking down on people. I do think that
Kerry made this mistake as well.
Nobody every blamed Bush for making that mistake. :)
Before the right wingers jump in here and suggest I am saying that there was
no logic to Bush's goals, or no emotion to Kerry's speeches, that is not at
all what I am suggesting.
Maybe the first thing we need to do is drop the right winger, left winger crap
and lets just stick with the issues. This campaign has been exhausing, ugly,
and divided this country. It is time to mend the wounds, come together, and
focus on the issues..regardless of whether we agree or not.
Agreed.
Kerry could have stated the same things he did, had the same positions, but
worded things differently. Talk about his passion for making the US a better
place, his burning desire to reduce the gross inequality of the rich and the
poor, etc... he may very well have won.
I would have preferred to have Kerry win, but Kerry is a very left brained
thinker... he does not express his emotions well. Bush does not share that
weakness.
There are a few factors that everyone needs to remember.
Now, before people stepped into the booth...I am sure many said who they were
going to vote for. But once they stepped into that booth, things change.
People think differently, and they think about just how serious their vote is.
Never in America's history has American's voted OUT a war time president. This
has never happened, and most likely never will. American's are very reluctant
to change horses midstream. So in a sense, Kerry was defeated from the
beginning, as any other challenger probably was as well.
Considering that he did very well.
Another issue that has hurt the Democrats is the gay marriage issue. Americans
just are not ready to give up on the idea of marriage being between a man and
a woman. And I doubt we will see that change any time soon.
A shame...
The war and the gay marriage issue is what hurt John Kerry. That is my
opinion.
Seems reasonable...
And I remember saying several months ago, Bush wouldn't lose based on the fact
that American's will not change horses midstream.
What is scary is that Bush has overthrown two governments in 4 years... and
that was with an election he knew would come up. What will he do in the
next four?
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://smallurl.com/?i=15235)
.
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| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
03 Nov 2004 11:00:54 PM |
|
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"Snit" <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message
news:BDAF01B0.EC68%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID...
"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in post
TJSdnfg889DwLxTcRVn-qg@comcast.com on 11/3/04 9:41 PM:
Once again Democratic Voters have to ask themselves, "Was Bill Clinton
the kiss of death again?" If you are a hardcore political watcher like
myself then you would agree that coming out of the debates and the
media hyped weapons story, should have given John Kerry an edge, but
in
the last days of the election, Kerry chose to campaign with Bill
Clinton in must win states and, except for Pennsylavia, Kerry lost
states that Bill Clinton campaigned in for him. Will hardcore
Democrats
ever get the message that the Clinton Era is over and it is time to
move on to something else?
Well, there were a couple of good points raised by some politics
related reporters; the biggest one was how little one saw of Edwards -
had Edwards been allowed to do his magic with his sweet southern
accent, it would have bought in voters from all ends of the spectrum.
Edwards should have worked the conservative southern states, and John
working the more liberal northern.
The second problem, which I agree with, is that there is *very* little
that seperated Kerry and Bush in the end in regards to tbe big issues.
You could say that Kerry is a "Bush Light", without the religious
rhetoric.
As for Clinton, when you start wheeling out past politicians, you know
you're in trouble; if you can't stand on your own two feet and thus
require former politicians to come back from retirement, then you might
as well throw in the towel.
Another commentary that I heard, that makes a lot of sense, is that Bush
speaks to the emotional side of people, Kerry to the intellectual side,
and
it is the emotional side that people are often most persuaded by.
This is what made Ronald Reagan so popular. Not only was he able to
speak on
the intellectual side, he was able to use emotions as well. He made
people
feel good when he talked, people listened to Ronald Reagan. Whether you
liked
him or not, he was able to make people in this country feel good to be
American's.
I agree. I was never a fan of Reagan, but the man spoke well - and
focused
on the emotional aspects very well.
Gore, made the mistake of trying to speak too intelligently. Giving
American's the perception that he was looking down on people. I do think
that
Kerry made this mistake as well.
Nobody every blamed Bush for making that mistake. :)
Before the right wingers jump in here and suggest I am saying that there
was
no logic to Bush's goals, or no emotion to Kerry's speeches, that is not
at
all what I am suggesting.
Maybe the first thing we need to do is drop the right winger, left winger
crap
and lets just stick with the issues. This campaign has been exhausing,
ugly,
and divided this country. It is time to mend the wounds, come together,
and
focus on the issues..regardless of whether we agree or not.
Agreed.
Kerry could have stated the same things he did, had the same positions,
but
worded things differently. Talk about his passion for making the US a
better
place, his burning desire to reduce the gross inequality of the rich and
the
poor, etc... he may very well have won.
I would have preferred to have Kerry win, but Kerry is a very left
brained
thinker... he does not express his emotions well. Bush does not share
that
weakness.
There are a few factors that everyone needs to remember.
Now, before people stepped into the booth...I am sure many said who they
were
going to vote for. But once they stepped into that booth, things change.
People think differently, and they think about just how serious their
vote is.
Never in America's history has American's voted OUT a war time president.
This
has never happened, and most likely never will. American's are very
reluctant
to change horses midstream. So in a sense, Kerry was defeated from the
beginning, as any other challenger probably was as well.
Considering that he did very well.
Another issue that has hurt the Democrats is the gay marriage issue.
Americans
just are not ready to give up on the idea of marriage being between a man
and
a woman. And I doubt we will see that change any time soon.
A shame...
The war and the gay marriage issue is what hurt John Kerry. That is my
opinion.
Seems reasonable...
And I remember saying several months ago, Bush wouldn't lose based on the
fact
that American's will not change horses midstream.
What is scary is that Bush has overthrown two governments in 4 years...
and
that was with an election he knew would come up. What will he do in the
next four?
I tend to look at this in the Utilitarian Theory, basically thinking that
the actions are good for all the people.
We are in no position to know why our country has taken the actions it has
taken.
People criticise Bush for saying Bin Laden was not an important target any
longer.
Did anyone stop to think that maybe that message was intentionally put out
there? Because we know Bin Laden pays attention to what our government
says. Is it not possible that the thinking behind this is that if Bin Laden
thinks the pressure is off, he will eventually make a mistake?
The war in Iraq. Bush has said many times, we will not fight terrorism on
U.S. soil. Has anyone thought that maybe it is possible that Bush set up
Iraq to become the battle ground in fighting terrorism? That maybe it is
possible that our being their, and Iraq being one of the central locations
in the region, would cause terrorist to come there and we fight them?
Yes we toppled two governments. Was it good for the people in those
countries? Personally, I don't know. I would like to think so, but I also
stop to ask myself who are we to know what is better for them.
Again, using the utiltarian theory, we sometimes make decisions, knowing the
consequences, but we do it anyways for the good of all the people.
A good way to help explain this would be like this...
You are in the military, you are the pilot of a bomber. Your mission is to
drop your bombs over a target that has been confirmed as being a terrorist
hideout. The mission is to kill the enemy; however, you realize that some
innocent may be lost. You have to make a decision, you realize the
consequences. But for the overall good of the people, you make the decision
to follow your orders and drop your bombs. In hopes that the people who do
survive and future generations will be free and the world will be safer.
We killed a lot of people in Iraq, many of them were innocent people, many
were insurgents and known terrorist. Was all this for the good of the
world? Is the world a safer place?
I don't know if I am ready to say the world is a safer place just yet, the
threat of terrorism is still real. George Bush has the weight of this on his
shoulders. Keep in mind, he inherited this weight when he came into office.
The threat of terrorism has been underestimated and overlooked for far too
long. We just never realized it until it hit home.
All we can do is hope and pray that our Government is making the right
decisions. Keep in mind, that everytime they speak to us..they are not just
relaying a message to the American public, they are relaying a message to
the world and yes...even our enemies. So it is very possible that our
Government misleads, and yes..even lies..on purpose. To sometimes try and
throw off the enemy.
Think of it like a football game. Sometimes you try to trick the defense or
the offense into going off sides. It could be a slight motion to a tricky
call. We are trying, and again this is my opinion only, to get the enemy to
jump off sides.
.
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
03 Nov 2004 11:32:51 PM |
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On 2004-11-04 15:44:16 +1100, Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> said:
"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in post
TJSdnfg889DwLxTcRVn-qg@comcast.com on 11/3/04 9:41 PM:
And I remember saying several months ago, Bush wouldn't lose based on the fact
that American's will not change horses midstream.
What is scary is that Bush has overthrown two governments in 4 years... and
that was with an election he knew would come up. What will he do in the
next four?
Syria, North Korea and Iran are next on the target radar.
Too bad he doesn't do everyone a favour and sort Saudi Arabia out once
and for all.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.
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| User: "Snit" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
03 Nov 2004 11:39:45 PM |
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"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in post
on 11/3/04 10:32 PM:
On 2004-11-04 15:44:16 +1100, Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> said:
"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in post
TJSdnfg889DwLxTcRVn-qg@comcast.com on 11/3/04 9:41 PM:
And I remember saying several months ago, Bush wouldn't lose based on the
fact
that American's will not change horses midstream.
What is scary is that Bush has overthrown two governments in 4 years... and
that was with an election he knew would come up. What will he do in the
next four?
Syria, North Korea and Iran are next on the target radar.
And how many people think that Bush's attacks on his "Axis of Evil" will not
lead to even more attacks on American soil?
My guess: within 10 years or so there will be another terrorist attack on US
soil - one bigger than 9/11. I hope not... but Bush's policies make it more
and more likely. One cannot run around the world killing hundreds of
thousands of innocent people without their being some repercussions.
Too bad he doesn't do everyone a favour and sort Saudi Arabia out once
and for all.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://smallurl.com/?i=15235)
.
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
04 Nov 2004 12:34:56 AM |
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On 2004-11-04 16:39:45 +1100, Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> said:
"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in post
on 11/3/04 10:32 PM:
On 2004-11-04 15:44:16 +1100, Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> said:
"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in post
TJSdnfg889DwLxTcRVn-qg@comcast.com on 11/3/04 9:41 PM:
And I remember saying several months ago, Bush wouldn't lose based on the
fact
that American's will not change horses midstream.
What is scary is that Bush has overthrown two governments in 4 years... and
that was with an election he knew would come up. What will he do in the
next four?
Syria, North Korea and Iran are next on the target radar.
And how many people think that Bush's attacks on his "Axis of Evil" will not
lead to even more attacks on American soil?
My guess: within 10 years or so there will be another terrorist attack on US
soil - one bigger than 9/11. I hope not... but Bush's policies make it more
and more likely. One cannot run around the world killing hundreds of
thousands of innocent people without their being some repercussions.
No, no, you don't understand, according to the average American, he is
appointed by god, and doing gods work! praise the lard!
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to
Islam and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an
Iranian is an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is
ignorance, insulated and arrogant.
One thing I can say, atleast when the other empires existed, the people
in side Britain, France and so forth weren't so ignorant not to know
that countries outside their borders exist.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.
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| User: "Tim Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
04 Nov 2004 01:12:48 AM |
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In article <2uu0slF2egfj4U2@uni-berlin.de>, Matty wrote:
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian is
an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is
Heck, the average religious American knows almost nothing about their *own*
religion, so of course they don't know much about Islam. On the other hand,
a hell of a lot of Muslims don't know much about Islam, either.
Religion works a lot better on a small scale, basically each family or small
group figuring it out for themselves. When it gets large and organized, you
end up with things like the Catholic Church, which deviate far from the Holy
books and teachings they purport to be founded upon, with layers of
beauracracy and full of teachings and beliefs that can't be traced back to
anything Biblical. Same goes for most large Protestant groups, and, getting
outside of Christianity, it is that way for large Muslim groups.
--
--Tim Smith
.
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
04 Nov 2004 01:35:00 AM |
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On 2004-11-04 18:12:48 +1100, Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> said:
In article <2uu0slF2egfj4U2@uni-berlin.de>, Matty wrote:
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian is
an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is
Heck, the average religious American knows almost nothing about their *own*
religion, so of course they don't know much about Islam. On the other hand,
a hell of a lot of Muslims don't know much about Islam, either.
Religion works a lot better on a small scale, basically each family or small
group figuring it out for themselves. When it gets large and organized, you
end up with things like the Catholic Church, which deviate far from the Holy
books and teachings they purport to be founded upon, with layers of
beauracracy and full of teachings and beliefs that can't be traced back to
anything Biblical. Same goes for most large Protestant groups, and, getting
outside of Christianity, it is that way for large Muslim groups.
The problem is that your average "Christian" has never laerned their
own religion, but of course, you have the brain dead parents, demand
that it should be taught through the public education system; if these
parents want their kids to learn Christianity, good for them, but don't
expect the public education system to fund their "lifestyle" choice at
the expense of others. If they want their children educated, they can
send their children to the local Catholic/Protestant school.
Regarding Islam, I agree, there are an AWFUL lot of clueless Muslims
out there which would make Mohummad cry with disgust in regards to how
ignorant his follows are.
Also, I've *ALWAYS* been in favour of a class at school, along the
lines of "Society Studies", where the focus is on studying the worlds
religions, beliefs and other social movements, so that when students
get out of school, they actually realise the whole world doesn't
revolve around the west, and there are more beliefs our there besides
the Juedo-Christian culture we see in our society today.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.
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| User: "BC" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
04 Nov 2004 10:35:16 AM |
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Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2uu4d9F2fhonrU1@uni-berlin.de>...
On 2004-11-04 18:12:48 +1100, Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> said:
In article <2uu0slF2egfj4U2@uni-berlin.de>, Matty wrote:
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian is
an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is
Heck, the average religious American knows almost nothing about their *own*
religion, so of course they don't know much about Islam. On the other hand,
a hell of a lot of Muslims don't know much about Islam, either.
Religion works a lot better on a small scale, basically each family or small
group figuring it out for themselves. When it gets large and organized, you
end up with things like the Catholic Church, which deviate far from the Holy
books and teachings they purport to be founded upon, with layers of
beauracracy and full of teachings and beliefs that can't be traced back to
anything Biblical. Same goes for most large Protestant groups, and, getting
outside of Christianity, it is that way for large Muslim groups.
The problem is that your average "Christian" has never laerned their
own religion, but of course, you have the brain dead parents, demand
that it should be taught through the public education system; if these
parents want their kids to learn Christianity, good for them, but don't
expect the public education system to fund their "lifestyle" choice at
the expense of others. If they want their children educated, they can
send their children to the local Catholic/Protestant school.
Regarding Islam, I agree, there are an AWFUL lot of clueless Muslims
out there which would make Mohummad cry with disgust in regards to how
ignorant his follows are.
Also, I've *ALWAYS* been in favour of a class at school, along the
lines of "Society Studies", where the focus is on studying the worlds
religions, beliefs and other social movements, so that when students
get out of school, they actually realise the whole world doesn't
revolve around the west, and there are more beliefs our there besides
the Juedo-Christian culture we see in our society today.
Matty
I had thought the same thing a while back after reading
Karen Armstrong's "A History of God" which looked at the
evolution of the major religions through a strictly
historical perspective. The problem is, though, is that
very few people want to view their religion this way --
it's way too sensitive a matter. All the major religions
have skeletons in their closets that make believers uneasy
and nonbelievers gloat.
But I agree some sort of survey and introduction to basic
tenets would be very worthwhile. Even just among the
Christian religions, there is a lot of confusion about
what the other branches believe. When even other Christians
were wondering why Mel Gibson's movie, "The Passion" only
focussed on the nasty end of Christ's life, I had to wonder
if anyone bothered to look up "Passion Play" -- it's a very
traditional, very old, but also very Catholic way of using
Christ's suffering to make some points.
-BC
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
04 Nov 2004 06:56:50 PM |
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On 2004-11-05 03:35:16 +1100, (BC) said:
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:<2uu4d9F2fhonrU1@uni-berlin.de>...
On 2004-11-04 18:12:48 +1100, Tim Smith <reply_in_group@mouse-potato.com> said:
In article <2uu0slF2egfj4U2@uni-berlin.de>, Matty wrote:
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian is
an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is
Heck, the average religious American knows almost nothing about their *own*
religion, so of course they don't know much about Islam. On the other hand,
a hell of a lot of Muslims don't know much about Islam, either.
Religion works a lot better on a small scale, basically each family or small
group figuring it out for themselves. When it gets large and organized, you
end up with things like the Catholic Church, which deviate far from the Holy
books and teachings they purport to be founded upon, with layers of
beauracracy and full of teachings and beliefs that can't be traced back to
anything Biblical. Same goes for most large Protestant groups, and, getting
outside of Christianity, it is that way for large Muslim groups.
The problem is that your average "Christian" has never laerned their
own religion, but of course, you have the brain dead parents, demand
that it should be taught through the public education system; if these
parents want their kids to learn Christianity, good for them, but don't
expect the public education system to fund their "lifestyle" choice at
the expense of others. If they want their children educated, they can
send their children to the local Catholic/Protestant school.
Regarding Islam, I agree, there are an AWFUL lot of clueless Muslims
out there which would make Mohummad cry with disgust in regards to how
ignorant his follows are.
Also, I've *ALWAYS* been in favour of a class at school, along the
lines of "Society Studies", where the focus is on studying the worlds
religions, beliefs and other social movements, so that when students
get out of school, they actually realise the whole world doesn't
revolve around the west, and there are more beliefs our there besides
the Juedo-Christian culture we see in our society today.
Matty
I had thought the same thing a while back after reading
Karen Armstrong's "A History of God" which looked at the evolution of
the major religions through a strictly historical perspective. The
problem is, though, is that
very few people want to view their religion this way -- it's way too
sensitive a matter. All the major religions
have skeletons in their closets that make believers uneasy
and nonbelievers gloat.
But I agree some sort of survey and introduction to basic tenets would
be very worthwhile. Even just among the Christian religions, there is a
lot of confusion about what the other branches believe. When even other
Christians
were wondering why Mel Gibson's movie, "The Passion" only focussed on
the nasty end of Christ's life, I had to wonder
if anyone bothered to look up "Passion Play" -- it's a very
traditional, very old, but also very Catholic way of using Christ's
suffering to make some points.
-BC
True. You're right, it would be more, "well, this is what Catholics
believe, and this is what Protestants believe; these are the
denonminations that spawed off the Protestant reformation..." etc. etc.
Back at College in religious educaiton we learned the same thing, and
IMHO, we were better off for it.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
05 Nov 2004 07:07:34 PM |
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Matty wrote:
On 2004-11-04 16:39:45 +1100, Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> said:
"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in post
2utt89F2ejn09U3@uni-berlin.de
on 11/3/04 10:32 PM:
On 2004-11-04 15:44:16 +1100, Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> said:
"Osprey" <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote in post
TJSdnfg889DwLxTcRVn-qg@comcast.com on 11/3/04 9:41 PM:
And I remember saying several months ago, Bush wouldn't lose based
on the
fact
that American's will not change horses midstream.
What is scary is that Bush has overthrown two governments in 4
years... and
that was with an election he knew would come up. What will he do in
the
next four?
Syria, North Korea and Iran are next on the target radar.
And how many people think that Bush's attacks on his "Axis of Evil"
will not
lead to even more attacks on American soil?
My guess: within 10 years or so there will be another terrorist attack
on US
soil - one bigger than 9/11. I hope not... but Bush's policies make
it more
and more likely. One cannot run around the world killing hundreds of
thousands of innocent people without their being some repercussions.
No, no, you don't understand, according to the average American, he is
appointed by god, and doing gods work! praise the lard!
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian
is an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is ignorance,
insulated and arrogant.
One thing I can say, atleast when the other empires existed, the people
in side Britain, France and so forth weren't so ignorant not to know
that countries outside their borders exist.
What are you, some kind of retard?
You sound more like a dumb kiwi than anything else.
--
---------------------------------
Th3 G0ld3n Yrs Sux0r
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| User: "Snit" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
05 Nov 2004 07:07:00 PM |
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"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in post
isadnVIfM4uyvhHcRVn-qA@bresnan.com on 11/5/04 6:07 PM:
And how many people think that Bush's attacks on his "Axis of Evil" will not
lead to even more attacks on American soil?
My guess: within 10 years or so there will be another terrorist attack on US
soil - one bigger than 9/11. I hope not... but Bush's policies make it more
and more likely. One cannot run around the world killing hundreds of
thousands of innocent people without their being some repercussions.
No, no, you don't understand, according to the average American, he is
appointed by god, and doing gods work! praise the lard!
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian
is an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is ignorance,
insulated and arrogant.
One thing I can say, atleast when the other empires existed, the people
in side Britain, France and so forth weren't so ignorant not to know
that countries outside their borders exist.
What are you, some kind of retard?
You sound more like a dumb kiwi than anything else.
What part of the comments do you disagree with?
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://smallurl.com/?i=15235)
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
06 Nov 2004 10:31:00 PM |
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Snit wrote:
"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in post
isadnVIfM4uyvhHcRVn-qA@bresnan.com on 11/5/04 6:07 PM:
And how many people think that Bush's attacks on his "Axis of Evil" will not
lead to even more attacks on American soil?
My guess: within 10 years or so there will be another terrorist attack on US
soil - one bigger than 9/11. I hope not... but Bush's policies make it more
and more likely. One cannot run around the world killing hundreds of
thousands of innocent people without their being some repercussions.
No, no, you don't understand, according to the average American, he is
appointed by god, and doing gods work! praise the lard!
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian
is an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is ignorance,
insulated and arrogant.
One thing I can say, atleast when the other empires existed, the people
in side Britain, France and so forth weren't so ignorant not to know
that countries outside their borders exist.
What are you, some kind of retard?
You sound more like a dumb kiwi than anything else.
What part of the comments do you disagree with?
I've heard these same remarks from other foreign nationals. And I
always disagree with their snide remarks.
--
---------------------------------
Th3 G0ld3n Yrs Sux0r
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
07 Nov 2004 05:26:50 AM |
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On 2004-11-07 15:31:00 +1100, GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> said:
Snit wrote:
"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in post
isadnVIfM4uyvhHcRVn-qA@bresnan.com on 11/5/04 6:07 PM:
And how many people think that Bush's attacks on his "Axis of Evil" will not
lead to even more attacks on American soil?
My guess: within 10 years or so there will be another terrorist attack on US
soil - one bigger than 9/11. I hope not... but Bush's policies make it more
and more likely. One cannot run around the world killing hundreds of
thousands of innocent people without their being some repercussions.
No, no, you don't understand, according to the average American, he is
appointed by god, and doing gods work! praise the lard!
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian
is an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is ignorance,
insulated and arrogant.
One thing I can say, atleast when the other empires existed, the people
in side Britain, France and so forth weren't so ignorant not to know
that countries outside their borders exist.
What are you, some kind of retard?
You sound more like a dumb kiwi than anything else.
What part of the comments do you disagree with?
I've heard these same remarks from other foreign nationals. And I
always disagree with their snide remarks.
Because they're true, and you can't handle the reality?
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
07 Nov 2004 12:15:03 PM |
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Matty wrote:
On 2004-11-07 15:31:00 +1100, GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> said:
Snit wrote:
"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in post
isadnVIfM4uyvhHcRVn-qA@bresnan.com on 11/5/04 6:07 PM:
And how many people think that Bush's attacks on his "Axis of
Evil" will not
lead to even more attacks on American soil?
My guess: within 10 years or so there will be another terrorist
attack on US
soil - one bigger than 9/11. I hope not... but Bush's policies
make it more
and more likely. One cannot run around the world killing hundreds of
thousands of innocent people without their being some repercussions.
No, no, you don't understand, according to the average American, he is
appointed by god, and doing gods work! praise the lard!
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to
Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an
Iranian
is an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is ignorance,
insulated and arrogant.
One thing I can say, atleast when the other empires existed, the
people
in side Britain, France and so forth weren't so ignorant not to know
that countries outside their borders exist.
What are you, some kind of retard?
You sound more like a dumb kiwi than anything else.
What part of the comments do you disagree with?
I've heard these same remarks from other foreign nationals. And I
always disagree with their snide remarks.
Because they're true, and you can't handle the reality?
Maybe it's because you are just jealous. It usually boils down to it.
--
---------------------------------
Th3 G0ld3n Yrs Sux0r
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
07 Nov 2004 09:20:13 PM |
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On 2004-11-08 05:15:03 +1100, GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> said:
Matty wrote:
On 2004-11-07 15:31:00 +1100, GreyCloud <mist@cumulus.com> said:
Snit wrote:
"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in post
isadnVIfM4uyvhHcRVn-qA@bresnan.com on 11/5/04 6:07 PM:
And how many people think that Bush's attacks on his "Axis of Evil" will not
lead to even more attacks on American soil?
My guess: within 10 years or so there will be another terrorist attack on US
soil - one bigger than 9/11. I hope not... but Bush's policies make it more
and more likely. One cannot run around the world killing hundreds of
thousands of innocent people without their being some repercussions.
No, no, you don't understand, according to the average American, he is
appointed by god, and doing gods work! praise the lard!
One only needs to look at the ignorance of Americans in regards to Islam
and the middle east - heck, the average American thinks that an Iranian
is an Arab! I ***** you not. Joe Average in America is ignorance,
insulated and arrogant.
One thing I can say, atleast when the other empires existed, the people
in side Britain, France and so forth weren't so ignorant not to know
that countries outside their borders exist.
What are you, some kind of retard?
You sound more like a dumb kiwi than anything else.
What part of the comments do you disagree with?
I've heard these same remarks from other foreign nationals. And I
always disagree with their snide remarks.
Because they're true, and you can't handle the reality?
Maybe it's because you are just jealous. It usually boils down to it.
Jealous of what? please, want to know where I would love to move to? to
the coast of Spain, a nice little villa on the coast, sunshine, the
warm salty air, the vast assortment of food, the culture and people in
the area.
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of everything
plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.
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| User: "Snit" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
07 Nov 2004 09:44:25 PM |
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"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in post
on 11/7/04 8:20 PM:
Maybe it's because you are just jealous. It usually boils down to it.
Jealous of what? please, want to know where I would love to move to? to
the coast of Spain, a nice little villa on the coast, sunshine, the
warm salty air, the vast assortment of food, the culture and people in
the area.
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of everything
plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
Why? I'll tell you why! I am an American! Have you seen our country...
with its...um... safe streets... and... um... fine political system...
and... um...
Damn! Do you have another room?
:)
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
.
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
07 Nov 2004 11:13:51 PM |
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On 2004-11-08 14:44:25 +1100, Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> said:
"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in post
on 11/7/04 8:20 PM:
Maybe it's because you are just jealous. It usually boils down to it.
Jealous of what? please, want to know where I would love to move to? to
the coast of Spain, a nice little villa on the coast, sunshine, the
warm salty air, the vast assortment of food, the culture and people in
the area.
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of everything
plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
Why? I'll tell you why! I am an American! Have you seen our country...
with its...um... safe streets... and... um... fine political system...
and... um...
Damn! Do you have another room?
:)
LOL, I don't have the money fo that villa in Spain so I'll have to
settle for a beach house up the coast of NZ, with cold weather, sub-par
fish 'n chip shop and the average people :-)
Mind you, I've been to the US, maybe the tourism council of Canada
should put up at the Los Angles Air Port, "America, the gateway to
Canada" poster ;-)
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
07 Nov 2004 11:02:05 PM |
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Snit wrote:
"Matty" <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in post
on 11/7/04 8:20 PM:
Maybe it's because you are just jealous. It usually boils down to it.
Jealous of what? please, want to know where I would love to move to? to
the coast of Spain, a nice little villa on the coast, sunshine, the
warm salty air, the vast assortment of food, the culture and people in
the area.
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of everything
plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
Why? I'll tell you why! I am an American! Have you seen our country...
with its...um... safe streets... and... um... fine political system...
and... um...
Damn! Do you have another room?
:)
You wouldn't like it there. They don't like americans, remember?
--
---------------------------------
Th3 G0ld3n Yrs Sux0r
.
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| User: "Snit" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
07 Nov 2004 11:30:49 PM |
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"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in post
VZqdncrToIe5YBPcRVn-hA@bresnan.com on 11/7/04 10:02 PM:
Maybe it's because you are just jealous. It usually boils down to it.
Jealous of what? please, want to know where I would love to move to? to
the coast of Spain, a nice little villa on the coast, sunshine, the
warm salty air, the vast assortment of food, the culture and people in
the area.
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of everything
plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
Why? I'll tell you why! I am an American! Have you seen our country...
with its...um... safe streets... and... um... fine political system...
and... um...
Damn! Do you have another room?
:)
You wouldn't like it there. They don't like americans, remember?
That's OK, I am not too fond of a lot of them myself. :)
On a slightly more serious note, I spent some time in France a few years
ago. I had always heard that the French hate Americans... esp. those of us,
like me, who do not speak French.
To the contrary, however, I found the French to be, on a whole, wonderful
people who would bend over backwards to help me. I have done some traveling
across the US and found it much the same.
I would like to think that most people in the world do not hate Americans,
just the arrogant, miserable excuses for human flesh that do seem to
accumulate here... but do not represent us all.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
.
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
08 Nov 2004 06:34:17 PM |
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Snit wrote:
"GreyCloud" <mist@cumulus.com> wrote in post
VZqdncrToIe5YBPcRVn-hA@bresnan.com on 11/7/04 10:02 PM:
Maybe it's because you are just jealous. It usually boils down to it.
Jealous of what? please, want to know where I would love to move to? to
the coast of Spain, a nice little villa on the coast, sunshine, the
warm salty air, the vast assortment of food, the culture and people in
the area.
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of everything
plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
Why? I'll tell you why! I am an American! Have you seen our country...
with its...um... safe streets... and... um... fine political system...
and... um...
Damn! Do you have another room?
:)
You wouldn't like it there. They don't like americans, remember?
That's OK, I am not too fond of a lot of them myself. :)
On a slightly more serious note, I spent some time in France a few years
ago. I had always heard that the French hate Americans... esp. those of us,
like me, who do not speak French.
To the contrary, however, I found the French to be, on a whole, wonderful
people who would bend over backwards to help me. I have done some traveling
across the US and found it much the same.
I would like to think that most people in the world do not hate Americans,
just the arrogant, miserable excuses for human flesh that do seem to
accumulate here... but do not represent us all.
Agreed. I've have both positive and negative experiences.
--
---------------------------------
Th3 G0ld3n Yrs Sux0r
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| User: "John P. Boatwright" |
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| Title: Re: Was just about everything the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
08 Nov 2004 12:37:22 AM |
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Matty wrote:
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of everything
plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
You wish.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Proof God described the planet density profile
BEFORE science did:
http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/density.htm
(see the 2 graphs, obviously God was right in Genesis)
Mirror site at: http://For-God.net
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: Was just about everything the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
08 Nov 2004 07:45:31 AM |
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"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message news:<418F141B.4239@For-God.net>...
Matty wrote:
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of everything
plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
You wish.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
The impression Europeans get is that the United States is like Iraq
Mark II -- militaristic, overly religious, uneducated,
overreactionary, civilly dangerous, charmless, and gun obsessed, with
poor diplomacy, blinkered foreign policy and rudimentary form of
democracy.
~Iain
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Was just about everything the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
08 Nov 2004 02:48:24 PM |
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(Iain) wrote in
news:6feb9a89.0411080545.46ea7ad9@posting.google.com:
"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message
news:<418F141B.4239@For-God.net>...
Matty wrote:
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of
everything plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
You wish.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
The impression Europeans get is that the United States is like Iraq
Mark II -- militaristic, overly religious, uneducated,
overreactionary, civilly dangerous, charmless, and gun obsessed, with
poor diplomacy, blinkered foreign policy and rudimentary form of
democracy.
Considering that the United States is the world's oldest democracy (well,
republic actually), it seems that it is the Europeans who are uneducated.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
08 Nov 2004 02:50:03 PM |
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(Iain) wrote in
news:6feb9a89.0411080545.46ea7ad9@posting.google.com:
"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message
news:<418F141B.4239@For-God.net>...
Matty wrote:
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of
everything plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
You wish.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
The impression Europeans get is that the United States is like Iraq
Mark II -- militaristic, overly religious, uneducated,
overreactionary, civilly dangerous, charmless, and gun obsessed, with
poor diplomacy, blinkered foreign policy and rudimentary form of
democracy.
Considering that the United States is the world's oldest democracy (well,
republic actually), it seems that it is the Europeans who are uneducated.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
09 Nov 2004 11:23:33 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
iain_inkster@hotmail.com (Iain) wrote in
news:6feb9a89.0411080545.46ea7ad9@posting.google.com:
"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message
news:<418F141B.4239@For-God.net>...
Matty wrote:
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of
everything plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
You wish.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
The impression Europeans get is that the United States is like Iraq
Mark II -- militaristic, overly religious, uneducated,
overreactionary, civilly dangerous, charmless, and gun obsessed, with
poor diplomacy, blinkered foreign policy and rudimentary form of
democracy.
Considering that the United States is the world's oldest democracy (well,
republic actually),
Another neocon moron who doesn't know what the difference between a
democracy and a republic is and doesn't know squat about world
history.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
09 Nov 2004 06:08:03 AM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<1099947003.GFXLJ9QQ+ruubyls0fEVhg@bubbanews>...
iain_inkster@hotmail.com (Iain) wrote in
news:6feb9a89.0411080545.46ea7ad9@posting.google.com:
"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message
news:<418F141B.4239@For-God.net>...
Matty wrote:
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of
everything plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
You wish.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
The impression Europeans get is that the United States is like Iraq
Mark II -- militaristic, overly religious, uneducated,
overreactionary, civilly dangerous, charmless, and gun obsessed, with
poor diplomacy, blinkered foreign policy and rudimentary form of
democracy.
Considering that the United States is the world's oldest democracy (well,
republic actually), it seems that it is the Europeans who are uneducated.
It's not the oldest and not the first.
Old existing democracies:
- The British parliament was unified in 1707 (the U.S. constitution
aimed to emulate it so far as was desirable).
- The English parliament incorporated into the above was founded in
1265.
- Iceland's parliament was established in 930 A.D.
- The Manx parliament is over 1000 years old.
Former republics: England, Rome(federal republic), Holy Roman
Empire(lacked an propor monarch)
The United States were founded 1776 as a "democracy", although no
women could vote, nor could slaves and other such characters. Many
countries permitted female voting and abolished slavery before the
United States.
~Iain
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
09 Nov 2004 08:01:23 AM |
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(Iain) wrote in
news:6feb9a89.0411090408.5474794c@posting.google.com:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message
news:<1099947003.GFXLJ9QQ+ruubyls0fEVhg@bubbanews>...
(Iain) wrote in
news:6feb9a89.0411080545.46ea7ad9@posting.google.com:
"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message
news:<418F141B.4239@For-God.net>...
Matty wrote:
Why on earth would I be jealous of the US, the epicentre of
everything plastic, anti-intellectual and uncultured?
You wish.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
The impression Europeans get is that the United States is like Iraq
Mark II -- militaristic, overly religious, uneducated,
overreactionary, civilly dangerous, charmless, and gun obsessed, with
poor diplomacy, blinkered foreign policy and rudimentary form of
democracy.
Considering that the United States is the world's oldest democracy
(well, republic actually), it seems that it is the Europeans who are
uneducated.
It's not the oldest and not the first.
Old existing democracies:
- The British parliament was unified in 1707 (the U.S. constitution
aimed to emulate it so far as was desirable).
- The English parliament incorporated into the above was founded in
1265.
When the US Constitution was ratified, England was still ruled by a king.
- Iceland's parliament was established in 930 A.D.
Iceland's parliment was disbanded in 1800 (although it was reestablished 43
years later). Iceland only became independent in 1918 and the current
government was only established in 1944.
- The Manx parliament is over 1000 years old.
Former republics: England, Rome(federal republic), Holy Roman
Empire(lacked an propor monarch)
I was referring to those governments that still exist today.
The United States were founded 1776 as a "democracy", although no
women could vote, nor could slaves and other such characters.
The United States was founded as a republic. It never has been a democracy.
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| User: "Sigvaldi Eggertsson" |
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| Title: Re: Was Bill Clinton the kiss of death for John Kerry? |
09 Nov 2004 01:28:36 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:<1100008883.+957yqJhevA79JRI6Z5stg@bubbanews>...
When the US Constitution was ratified, England was still ruled by a king.
- Iceland's parliament was established in 930 A.D.
Iceland's parliment was disbanded in 1800 (although it was reestablished 43
years later).
The Icelandic parliament was suspended in 1800, because of disputes
over its location, duties etc. It was never disbanded.
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