| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"TerryG" |
| Date: |
28 Nov 2004 11:43:12 PM |
| Object: |
What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells. Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like the one
described in the following article.
And ask yourself why countries like South Korea are having success
with adult stem cells while fetal stem cells have produced no positive
results whatsoever.
Paralyzed woman walks again after stem cell therapy
ADVERTISEMENT
A South Korean woman paralyzed for 20 years is walking again after
scientists say they repaired her damaged spine using stem cells
derived from umbilical cord blood.
Hwang Mi-Soon, 37, had been bedridden since damaging her back in an
accident two decades ago.
Last week her eyes glistened with tears as she walked again with the
help of a walking frame at a press conference where South Korea
researchers went public for the first time with the results of their
stem-cell therapy.
They said it was the world's first published case in which a patient
with spinal cord injuries had been successfully treated with stem
cells from umbilical cord blood.
Though they cautioned that more research was needed and verification
from international experts was required, the South Korean researchers
said Hwang's case could signal a leap forward in the treatment of
spinal cord injuries.
The use of stem cells from cord blood could also point to a way to
side-step the ethical dispute over the controversial use of embryos in
embryonic stem-cell research.
"We have glimpsed at a silver lining over the horizon," said Song
Chang-Hoon, a member of the research team and a professor at Chosun
University's medical school in the southwestern city of Kwangju.
"We were all surprised at the fast improvements in the patient."
Under TV lights and flashing cameras, Hwang stood up from her
wheelchair and shuffled forward and back a few paces with the help of
the frame at the press conference here on Thursday.
"This is already a miracle for me," she said. "I never dreamed of
getting to my feet again."
Medical research has shown stem cells can develop into replacement
cells for damaged organs or body parts. Unlocking that potential could
see cures for diseases that are at present incurable, or even see the
body generate new organs to replace damaged or failing ones.
So-called "multipotent" stem cells -- those found in cord blood -- are
capable of forming a limited number of specialised cell types, unlike
the more versatile "undifferentiated" cells that are derived from
embroyos.
However, these stem cells isolated from umbilical cord blood have
emerged as an ethical and safe alternative to embryonic stem cells.
Clinical trials with embryonic stem cells are believed to be years
away because of the risks and ethical problems involved in the
production of embryos -- regarded as living humans by some people --
for scientific use.
In contrast, there is no ethical dimension when stem cells from
umbilical cord blood are obtained, according to researchers.
Additionally, umbilical cord blood stem cells trigger little immune
response in the recipient as embryonic stem cells have a tendency to
form tumors when injected into animals or human beings.
For the therapy, multipotent stem cells were isolated from umbilical
cord blood, which had been frozen immediately after the birth of a
baby and cultured for a period of time.
Then these cells were directly injected to the damaged part of the
spinal cord.
"Technical difficulties exist in isolating stem cells from frozen
umbilical cord blood, finding cells with genes matching those of the
recipient and selecting the right place of the body to deliver the
cells," said Han Hoon, president of Histostem, a government-backed
umbilical cord blood bank in Seoul.
Han teamed up with Song and other experts for the experiment.
They say that more experiments are required to verify the outcome of
the landmark therapy.
"It is just one case and we need more experiments, more data," said Oh
Il-Hoon, another researcher.
"I believe experts in other countries have been conducting similar
experiments and accumulating data before making the results public."
.
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
29 Nov 2004 12:01:22 AM |
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"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411282143.1622ce79@posting.google.com...
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells. Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like the one
described in the following article.
Ask, and ye shall receive, Terry:
Stem cells help heal paralyzed rats
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
....and...growing new eyeballs and transplanting them:
New Hope for the Blind
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/printArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/04/22/1019441222506.html
Three additional items of note, though:
1.) Umbilical is NOT adult. Separate class.
2.) Even umbilical cell therapy of this nature isn't available in the US,
thereby negating your remarks about Christopher Reeve. You are somehow
trying to claim that had this been available, he would not have been able to
avail himself to it.
3.) Paralysis is just one of the ailments.
You've stated a position and are trying frantically to support it with even
the thinnest of 'evidence.' In fact, it's so thin that it's transparent.
There's also a doctor in Portugal that has healed paralysis victims through
a surgical procedure, but it hasn't been approved in the US. A kid here in
Austin was one of his patients.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
.
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| User: "TerryG" |
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| Title: Re: What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
29 Nov 2004 08:14:41 AM |
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"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message news:<SWyqd.54165$g21.6302@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411282143.1622ce79@posting.google.com...
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells. Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like the one
described in the following article.
Ask, and ye shall receive, Terry:
Stem cells help heal paralyzed rats
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
So why can't you cite a single example of success treating a human
being? Because everyone knows that fetal stem cells cause tumors and
other disasterous side effects. And no one has figured out how to
prevent this. But in the meantime, people like Reeve pass on
investigating the use of adult stem cells because they've been told to
hold out for fetal stems cells.
...and...growing new eyeballs and transplanting them:
New Hope for the Blind
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/printArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/04/22/1019441222506.html
Gee! I'm so surprised. Another article on treating animals with
fetal stem cells. Perhaps you can explaim why the ONLY successes with
humans have involved ADULT stem cells. An please don't insult our
intelligence with claims that it's because of Bush's policies. Bush
does not control the rest of the world where, with only a few
exceptions, fetal stem cell research has been unrestricted.
Three additional items of note, though:
1.) Umbilical is NOT adult. Separate class.
It is considered ADULT because they are taken AFTER birth. No fetus
or embryo is destroyed.
2.) Even umbilical cell therapy of this nature isn't available in the US,
thereby negating your remarks about Christopher Reeve. You are somehow
trying to claim that had this been available, he would not have been able to
avail himself to it.
Are you really so naive as to think that Christoper Reeve limited
himself to what is going on the US?
3.) Paralysis is just one of the ailments.
You've stated a position and are trying frantically to support it with even
the thinnest of 'evidence.' In fact, it's so thin that it's transparent.
In your opinion.
There's also a doctor in Portugal that has healed paralysis victims through
a surgical procedure, but it hasn't been approved in the US. A kid here in
Austin was one of his patients.
Doctors in Portugal have also had success using adult stem cells. The
use of fetal stem cells is illegal in Portugal, one of the few
countries where it is illegal.
.
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| User: "The other Donald" |
|
| Title: Re: What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
29 Nov 2004 10:52:48 AM |
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"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411290614.605cdbdb@posting.google.com...
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:<SWyqd.54165$g21.6302@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411282143.1622ce79@posting.google.com...
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells. Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like the one
described in the following article.
Ask, and ye shall receive, Terry:
Stem cells help heal paralyzed rats
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
So why can't you cite a single example of success treating a human
being?
Now you're playing a game of 'shifting the goal posts.' See below for more
information on how new ESCR is when compared to other therapies.
Because everyone knows that fetal stem cells cause tumors and
other disasterous side effects.
Cite, please. The one reference in the article was quite vague. What I've
seen of these side effects was from an untested cosmetic application in
Russia.
Plus, you may want to also read the very material you posted:
"Additionally, umbilical cord blood stem cells trigger little immune
response in the recipient as embryonic stem cells have a tendency to form
tumors when injected into animals or human beings."
You were careful to make an issue of the second half of that sentence, while
neglecting to acknowledge that side effects of a similar nature are possible
with the procedure of discussion, stated in the first half of the same
sentence.
And no one has figured out how to
prevent this.
No one? You sure are full of absolutes and unfounded claims.
Maybe this is where that concept called "experimentation" comes in. The same
idea was likely used in determining how much radiation was enough to kill
cancerous cells, but leave a living person.
But in the meantime, people like Reeve pass on
investigating the use of adult stem cells because they've been told to
hold out for fetal stems cells.
Care to prove this unfounded statement, also?
And, since you won't go past superficial, anecdotal tripe, it is obvious
that you don't understand the varying degrees of spinal cord injuries. Or
you choose to ignore them because it would jeopardize you black-n-white
fantasies.
This is more of the gray areas that you refuse to acknowledge. Spinal cord
injuries come in varying degrees of severity, and at different locations on
the spinal column. Of course, everyone knows that. Some just choose to
ignore such facts in their 'yes-no' views of the world....kind of like you
did.
Reeve's injury was at C2, and the damage was considerably more extensive
than what I've been able to find on Mi-Soon.
The procedure I mentioned in Portugal wouldn't be appropriate for Reeve due
to the fact that his cord was severed, though partially. There was also some
time constraints involved and age factors.
...and...growing new eyeballs and transplanting them:
New Hope for the Blind
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/printArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/04/22/1019441222506.html
Gee! I'm so surprised. Another article on treating animals with
fetal stem cells. Perhaps you can explaim why the ONLY successes with
humans have involved ADULT stem cells.
<sarcasm>
Because they have been experimented with longer and gotten further along in
development?
</sarcasm>
Embryonic stem cells have only begun their journey:
http://www.news.wisc.edu/packages/stemcells/
First line: "In early November of 1998, when human embryonic stem cells were
introduced to the world, the possibilities seemed astonishing."
Six whole years, as compared to 40 with umbilical cords:
"Doctors have been transferring HSCs in bone marrow transplants for more
than 40 years."
faq, also cited below: http://www.isscr.org/science/faq.htm
I would also like you to show where something even close to that (growing
eyeballs) is even in the works, let alone accomplished, with any of the stem
cell therapies that you claim are just as good. Please feel free to show the
advances in other stem cxell therapies for Alzheimer's, diabetes,
Parkinson's, burns, etc.
An please don't insult our
intelligence
Your doing quite well on your own, thank you.
with claims that it's because of Bush's policies. Bush
does not control the rest of the world where, with only a few
exceptions, fetal stem cell research has been unrestricted.
It's not like he's opened the door for extensive research to find the
answers, has he? And, since embryonic stem cells have only been "available"
since a tad over two years before Shrub put his 'ban' in place, it's hardly
astonishing that the progress in the US has been limited.
Twofold answer, just in case you don't recognize the obvious: New field of
science, and limited resources put behind it.
You also know quite well that the major breakthroughs in medicine come from
labs with federal funding because of the huge amount of money that is
needed: HIV is an excellent example. Getting $300 million from private
sources is an exercise in futility. $300 million is almost a rounding error
in the federal budget.
Three additional items of note, though:
1.) Umbilical is NOT adult. Separate class.
It is considered ADULT because they are taken AFTER birth.
Of course, when you try to speak in sound bytes and absolutes, the truth
never comes out. This will shed some light on your dilemma:
http://www.isscr.org/science/faq.htm
Notice the shades of gray, and how it doesn't fit into your binary views.
There's a great, big complex world out here, and very little, if any, of it
has a simple answer.
No fetus
or embryo is destroyed.
And thus tips your hand.
2.) Even umbilical cell therapy of this nature isn't available in the
US,
thereby negating your remarks about Christopher Reeve. You are somehow
trying to claim that had this been available, he would not have been
able to
avail himself to it.
Are you really so naive as to think that Christoper Reeve limited
himself to what is going on the US?
You the one playing 'either-or.' YOU made the claim that Reeve *only*
adhered to embryonic stem cell research, going further to claim it was
because that's what people had convinced him to do. I would tend to believe
that he knew a hell of a lot more about his injury than you ever will.
For some reason, and I have my suspicions as to your motives, you
conveniently did not include other possibilities:
....1.) the other therapies may not have been suitable for Reeve's injury;
....2.) too many years may have passed for Reeve to be a viable candidate;
....3.) the risks of the procedure in question may have outweighed the
benefits: i.e. it may have done more damage, taking away what limited
function he has, like occasionally breathing on his own.
I'm certain that there are many more reasons, but you stated explicitly that
it was because "he had been told."
3.) Paralysis is just one of the ailments.
You've stated a position and are trying frantically to support it with
even
the thinnest of 'evidence.' In fact, it's so thin that it's transparent.
In your opinion.
You have sat, straight-faced I'll bet, and claimed obscurely that because we
have 'this,' we don't need 'that.'
You've distorted and/ignored that which doesn't conform to what you want to
insist. That may work on the inept, but I've done quite a bit of homework on
the matter.
I don't take the position that the other forms of stem cell therapies won't
have their uses. Because of the omnipotent characteristic of embryonic
cells, though, the frontier seems much greater, and it should be advanced
with as much zeal as the rest of them.
I don't have the emotional attachment to a blob of 150 cells the way you do.
You're allowing that personal, irrational, emotional attachment to interfere
with your conclusions. Case in point: you look for any reason to discount
the potential of ESCR when those same shortcomings can be found in most
every other branch of medicine, and you distort findings to prop up your
flawed position.
There's also a doctor in Portugal that has healed paralysis victims
through
a surgical procedure, but it hasn't been approved in the US. A kid here
in
Austin was one of his patients.
Doctors in Portugal have also had success using adult stem cells. The
use of fetal stem cells is illegal in Portugal, one of the few
countries where it is illegal.
Way to go in showing that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
The cells in question are pulled from the sinuses. This procedure is being
tested in the US (A lab in Florida, IIRC) and also shows great promise.
Sinus cells are the only regenerating cells in the body.
All in all, you're trying to find some sort of evidence to justify stopping
embryonic stem cell research. You have the base position that ESCR is akin
to abortion, therefore you only seek out limited information and narrow your
criteria to where any answer contrary to what you want to hear is somehow
eliminated from the equation. As I said, you've decided on something and
you're trying frantically to find only that which supports it, regardless of
how far you have to stretch the facts or rely on ignorance of said facts.
I am eternally grateful that you are not a member of our research community.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
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| User: "Sneechres" |
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| Title: Re: What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
01 Dec 2004 12:40:32 AM |
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"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message news:<AtIqd.52261$KQ2.35406@fe2.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411290614.605cdbdb@posting.google.com...
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:<SWyqd.54165$g21.6302@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411282143.1622ce79@posting.google.com...
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells. Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like the one
described in the following article.
Ask, and ye shall receive, Terry:
Stem cells help heal paralyzed rats
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
So why can't you cite a single example of success treating a human
being?
Now you're playing a game of 'shifting the goal posts.'
Well, if your body was the goal post, I have no problem with you
receiving injections of rat cells. ;)
Because everyone knows that fetal stem cells cause tumors and
other disasterous side effects.
Cite, please.
Your claims are way overstated.
http://www.cbhd.org/resources/stemcells/mcconchie_2004-06-16.htm
http://www.fumento.com/sustemcell.html
And, since you won't go past superficial, anecdotal tripe, it is
obvious
that you don't understand the varying degrees of spinal cord injuries.
It's obvious that you don't understand the varying degrees of spinal
cord injury treatments--stem cells don't even show up on the radar.
Electrical implants are still the way therapists and doctors go. Ask
anyone who's paralyzed what kind of treatment they are getting.
Special stabilizing frames, special chairs, physical manipulation
exercising, and electrodes. They have to take drugs to avoid certain
infections, etc.
http://www.aapmr.org/condtreat/injuries/sciadvance.htm
Or
you choose to ignore them because it would jeopardize you black-n-white
fantasies.
You're the one who is fantasizing. No one believed that the crippled
would miraculously get up and walk. The Kerry Edwards Faith Healing
ticket lost, remember?
I don't have the emotional attachment to a blob of 150 cells the way you do.
Yes you do. You have a vested interest in it's death. People who
advocate embryonic stem cell research absolutely have an emotional
attachment--they want the cells harvested so they can selfishly use
them for themselves. Never mind that there is absolutely no evidence,
none whatsoever, that embryonic stem cells have any theraputic value
in human medical therapy.
--S
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| User: "TerryG" |
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| Title: Re: What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
29 Nov 2004 02:56:34 PM |
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(TerryG) wrote in message news:<7322e1ab.0411290614.605cdbdb@posting.google.com>...
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message news:<SWyqd.54165$g21.6302@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" < > wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411282143.1622ce79@posting.google.com...
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells. Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like the one
described in the following article.
Ask, and ye shall receive, Terry:
Stem cells help heal paralyzed rats
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
So why can't you cite a single example of success treating a human
being? Because everyone knows that fetal stem cells cause tumors and
other disasterous side effects. And no one has figured out how to
prevent this. But in the meantime, people like Reeve pass on
investigating the use of adult stem cells because they've been told to
hold out for fetal stems cells.
...and...growing new eyeballs and transplanting them:
New Hope for the Blind
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/printArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/04/22/1019441222506.html
Gee! I'm so surprised. Another article on treating animals with
fetal stem cells. Perhaps you can explaim why the ONLY successes with
humans have involved ADULT stem cells. An please don't insult our
intelligence with claims that it's because of Bush's policies. Bush
does not control the rest of the world where, with only a few
exceptions, fetal stem cell research has been unrestricted.
Three additional items of note, though:
1.) Umbilical is NOT adult. Separate class.
It is considered ADULT because they are taken AFTER birth. No fetus
or embryo is destroyed.
2.) Even umbilical cell therapy of this nature isn't available in the US,
thereby negating your remarks about Christopher Reeve. You are somehow
trying to claim that had this been available, he would not have been able to
avail himself to it.
Are you really so naive as to think that Christoper Reeve limited
himself to what is going on the US?
3.) Paralysis is just one of the ailments.
You've stated a position and are trying frantically to support it with even
the thinnest of 'evidence.' In fact, it's so thin that it's transparent.
In your opinion.
There's also a doctor in Portugal that has healed paralysis victims through
a surgical procedure, but it hasn't been approved in the US. A kid here in
Austin was one of his patients.
Doctors in Portugal have also had success using adult stem cells. The
use of fetal stem cells is illegal in Portugal, one of the few
countries where it is illegal.
Why don't you read the following.
Beneficiary of Adult Stem Cell Treatment for Spinal Cord Injury and
Paralysis
Testimony at Senate Committee on Science, Technology, and Space
Hearing: Adult Stem Cell Research, Wednesday, July 14 2004 by Laura
Dominguez
http://www.leaderu.com/science/stemcelltestimony_dominguez.html
Any chance this is the same person you're talking about? And oh by
the way, the surgical procedure you mentioned just might have been as
described in the following excerpt: "The surgery involved the removal
of tissue from my olfactory sinus area and transplanting it into my
spinal cord at the injury site. Both procedures, the harvesting of the
tissue and the transplant were done at the same time. I was the tenth
person in the world and the second American to have this procedure
done."
I did a Google search for Portugal and paralysis and every single
related hit had to do with the use of ADULT stem cells. None
mentioned a purely surgical procedure unless it had to do with facial
paralysis (e.g. Bell's palsey). You weren't, by any chance, trying to
blow something by us, now, were you. Noooo. Of course not. You
people just don't know the difference between truth and lies.
Just look at how you responded to my challenge to cite a single
example of positive results using fetal stem cells. Of course you had
to take advantage of my lack of specificity; I didn't specifically
say success in treating humans. But you knew that was what I meant.
But what did you do? You provided examples of lab animals being
treated with fetal stem cells. As if there is even a remotely similar
significance between the two. But I'm used to it by now. Those are
the pathetically dishonest games you have to play to try to keep the
issue in debate. I'd ask you how you sleep at night if I thought you
had any semblance of a conscience. But you don't so I won't bother to
ask.
.
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| User: "The other Donald" |
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| Title: Re: What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
29 Nov 2004 06:41:09 PM |
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"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411291256.16edf5e5@posting.google.com...
ritpg@hotmail.com (TerryG) wrote in message
news:<7322e1ab.0411290614.605cdbdb@posting.google.com>...
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:<SWyqd.54165$g21.6302@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411282143.1622ce79@posting.google.com...
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher
Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How
much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his
cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells. Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like the
one
described in the following article.
Ask, and ye shall receive, Terry:
Stem cells help heal paralyzed rats
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
So why can't you cite a single example of success treating a human
being? Because everyone knows that fetal stem cells cause tumors and
other disasterous side effects. And no one has figured out how to
prevent this. But in the meantime, people like Reeve pass on
investigating the use of adult stem cells because they've been told to
hold out for fetal stems cells.
...and...growing new eyeballs and transplanting them:
New Hope for the Blind
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/printArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/04/22/1019441222506.html
Gee! I'm so surprised. Another article on treating animals with
fetal stem cells. Perhaps you can explaim why the ONLY successes with
humans have involved ADULT stem cells. An please don't insult our
intelligence with claims that it's because of Bush's policies. Bush
does not control the rest of the world where, with only a few
exceptions, fetal stem cell research has been unrestricted.
Three additional items of note, though:
1.) Umbilical is NOT adult. Separate class.
It is considered ADULT because they are taken AFTER birth. No fetus
or embryo is destroyed.
2.) Even umbilical cell therapy of this nature isn't available in the
US,
thereby negating your remarks about Christopher Reeve. You are somehow
trying to claim that had this been available, he would not have been
able to
avail himself to it.
Are you really so naive as to think that Christoper Reeve limited
himself to what is going on the US?
3.) Paralysis is just one of the ailments.
You've stated a position and are trying frantically to support it with
even
the thinnest of 'evidence.' In fact, it's so thin that it's
transparent.
In your opinion.
There's also a doctor in Portugal that has healed paralysis victims
through
a surgical procedure, but it hasn't been approved in the US. A kid
here in
Austin was one of his patients.
Doctors in Portugal have also had success using adult stem cells. The
use of fetal stem cells is illegal in Portugal, one of the few
countries where it is illegal.
Why don't you read the following.
Beneficiary of Adult Stem Cell Treatment for Spinal Cord Injury and
You're preaching to someone that has a dog in this fight. I read everything
that I can get my hands on regarding spinal cord injuries, because it is a
personal matter. For people like you, Christopher Reeve is just a face on a
TV screen. My brother, on the other hand, is very real.
Ronnie is also just one of several personal examples I can give. There's
also my mother and her battle with diabetes, that is likely to have been
passed to me and my daughter. There is my firefighter, Eric, who deals daily
with the possibility of the rejection of a liver transplant. There is my
friend, Neal, that recently lost both parents to Alzheimer's. That man is
looking down the barrel of a loaded gun, as is his brother Gary. Neal's
daughter also happens to be my wife's daughter.
Not to mention that your motives are not the advancement of medical
research, and push science to its boundaries. You want to ban something
because of your irrational, emotional attachment to 150 cells, and you will
stop at nothing to satisfy your infatuations.
That means you are standing in my way, and I *will* mow you down. You can't
win, so I would suggest that you go hide in your ivory tower and don't *****
with me on this one.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
.
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| User: "TerryG" |
|
| Title: Re: What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
30 Nov 2004 07:55:24 AM |
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"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message news:<FkPqd.80755$jq5.36730@fe2.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411291256.16edf5e5@posting.google.com...
ritpg@hotmail.com (TerryG) wrote in message
news:<7322e1ab.0411290614.605cdbdb@posting.google.com>...
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:<SWyqd.54165$g21.6302@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411282143.1622ce79@posting.google.com...
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher
Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How
much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his
cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells. Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like the
one
described in the following article.
Ask, and ye shall receive, Terry:
Stem cells help heal paralyzed rats
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
So why can't you cite a single example of success treating a human
being? Because everyone knows that fetal stem cells cause tumors and
other disasterous side effects. And no one has figured out how to
prevent this. But in the meantime, people like Reeve pass on
investigating the use of adult stem cells because they've been told to
hold out for fetal stems cells.
...and...growing new eyeballs and transplanting them:
New Hope for the Blind
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/printArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/04/22/1019441222506.html
Gee! I'm so surprised. Another article on treating animals with
fetal stem cells. Perhaps you can explaim why the ONLY successes with
humans have involved ADULT stem cells. An please don't insult our
intelligence with claims that it's because of Bush's policies. Bush
does not control the rest of the world where, with only a few
exceptions, fetal stem cell research has been unrestricted.
Three additional items of note, though:
1.) Umbilical is NOT adult. Separate class.
It is considered ADULT because they are taken AFTER birth. No fetus
or embryo is destroyed.
2.) Even umbilical cell therapy of this nature isn't available in the
US,
thereby negating your remarks about Christopher Reeve. You are somehow
trying to claim that had this been available, he would not have been
able to
avail himself to it.
Are you really so naive as to think that Christoper Reeve limited
himself to what is going on the US?
3.) Paralysis is just one of the ailments.
You've stated a position and are trying frantically to support it with
even
the thinnest of 'evidence.' In fact, it's so thin that it's
transparent.
In your opinion.
There's also a doctor in Portugal that has healed paralysis victims
through
a surgical procedure, but it hasn't been approved in the US. A kid
here in
Austin was one of his patients.
Doctors in Portugal have also had success using adult stem cells. The
use of fetal stem cells is illegal in Portugal, one of the few
countries where it is illegal.
Why don't you read the following.
Beneficiary of Adult Stem Cell Treatment for Spinal Cord Injury and
You're preaching to someone that has a dog in this fight. I read everything
that I can get my hands on regarding spinal cord injuries, because it is a
personal matter. For people like you, Christopher Reeve is just a face on a
TV screen. My brother, on the other hand, is very real.
Ronnie is also just one of several personal examples I can give. There's
also my mother and her battle with diabetes, that is likely to have been
passed to me and my daughter. There is my firefighter, Eric, who deals daily
with the possibility of the rejection of a liver transplant. There is my
friend, Neal, that recently lost both parents to Alzheimer's. That man is
looking down the barrel of a loaded gun, as is his brother Gary. Neal's
daughter also happens to be my wife's daughter.
Not to mention that your motives are not the advancement of medical
research, and push science to its boundaries. You want to ban something
because of your irrational, emotional attachment to 150 cells, and you will
stop at nothing to satisfy your infatuations.
That means you are standing in my way, and I *will* mow you down. You can't
win, so I would suggest that you go hide in your ivory tower and don't *****
with me on this one.
Give me a break. As if you're the only one in the world who knows
people with medical problems. Your "at-any-cost" approach to life is
repulsive to people who really care about people. Anyone can fight
for people they know. It takes someone with a sense of true
compassion and fairness to fight for people they don't know.
Notice, folks, how this left wing liberal just jerked the discussion
from a logical, fact-based dialogue to an emotional, "because I said
so" exercise in whining. He didn't refute a single thing I said when
I stood up to his lies and misrepresentations. Because he can't.
People like him want you to do what he wants because he wants it. His
family and friends are more important than the general sanctity of
human life.
.
|
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|
| User: "The other Donald" |
|
| Title: Re: What Adult Stems Cells Can Do |
30 Nov 2004 06:49:31 PM |
|
|
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411300555.2129b0a0@posting.google.com...
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:<FkPqd.80755$jq5.36730@fe2.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411291256.16edf5e5@posting.google.com...
ritpg@hotmail.com (TerryG) wrote in message
news:<7322e1ab.0411290614.605cdbdb@posting.google.com>...
"The other Donald" <the_donald_13@yeehaw2.com> wrote in message
news:<SWyqd.54165$g21.6302@fe1.texas.rr.com>...
"TerryG" <ritpg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7322e1ab.0411282143.1622ce79@posting.google.com...
I can't help but wonder what could have happened if Christopher
Reeve
hadn't been lead down the path of fetal stem cell research. How
much
time did he waste fighting for fetal stem cell research when his
cure
might have been staring him right in the face all along.
Read the following article and note that the stem cells came
from
umbilical cord blood. That means they were ADULT stem cells.
Now I
challenge all you people out there in favor of fetal stem cell
research to cite a single success using fetal stem cells like
the
one
described in the following article.
Ask, and ye shall receive, Terry:
Stem cells help heal paralyzed rats
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/08/03/stemcell.research/index.html
So why can't you cite a single example of success treating a human
being? Because everyone knows that fetal stem cells cause tumors and
other disasterous side effects. And no one has figured out how to
prevent this. But in the meantime, people like Reeve pass on
investigating the use of adult stem cells because they've been told
to
hold out for fetal stems cells.
...and...growing new eyeballs and transplanting them:
New Hope for the Blind
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/printArticle.pl?path=/articles/2002/04/22/1019441222506.html
Gee! I'm so surprised. Another article on treating animals with
fetal stem cells. Perhaps you can explaim why the ONLY successes
with
humans have involved ADULT stem cells. An please don't insult our
intelligence with claims that it's because of Bush's policies. Bush
does not control the rest of the world where, with only a few
exceptions, fetal stem cell research has been unrestricted.
Three additional items of note, though:
1.) Umbilical is NOT adult. Separate class.
It is considered ADULT because they are taken AFTER birth. No fetus
or embryo is destroyed.
2.) Even umbilical cell therapy of this nature isn't available in
the
US,
thereby negating your remarks about Christopher Reeve. You are
somehow
trying to claim that had this been available, he would not have
been
able to
avail himself to it.
Are you really so naive as to think that Christoper Reeve limited
himself to what is going on the US?
3.) Paralysis is just one of the ailments.
You've stated a position and are trying frantically to support it
with
even
the thinnest of 'evidence.' In fact, it's so thin that it's
transparent.
In your opinion.
There's also a doctor in Portugal that has healed paralysis
victims
through
a surgical procedure, but it hasn't been approved in the US. A kid
here in
Austin was one of his patients.
Doctors in Portugal have also had success using adult stem cells.
The
use of fetal stem cells is illegal in Portugal, one of the few
countries where it is illegal.
Why don't you read the following.
Beneficiary of Adult Stem Cell Treatment for Spinal Cord Injury and
You're preaching to someone that has a dog in this fight. I read
everything
that I can get my hands on regarding spinal cord injuries, because it is
a
personal matter. For people like you, Christopher Reeve is just a face
on a
TV screen. My brother, on the other hand, is very real.
Ronnie is also just one of several personal examples I can give. There's
also my mother and her battle with diabetes, that is likely to have been
passed to me and my daughter. There is my firefighter, Eric, who deals
daily
with the possibility of the rejection of a liver transplant. There is my
friend, Neal, that recently lost both parents to Alzheimer's. That man
is
looking down the barrel of a loaded gun, as is his brother Gary. Neal's
daughter also happens to be my wife's daughter.
Not to mention that your motives are not the advancement of medical
research, and push science to its boundaries. You want to ban something
because of your irrational, emotional attachment to 150 cells, and you
will
stop at nothing to satisfy your infatuations.
That means you are standing in my way, and I *will* mow you down. You
can't
win, so I would suggest that you go hide in your ivory tower and don't
*****
with me on this one.
Give me a break.
Give *you* a break? Kiss my *****, liar.
As if you're the only one in the world who knows
people with medical problems.
Are you trying to say something here? There's MILLIONS of people that can
benefit from ESCR, and
Your inept retort is duly noted.
Your "at-any-cost" approach to life is
repulsive to people who really care about people.
To a selfish piece of ***** like you, I'm certain you'll twist the facts
anyway you can. You don't have to make any sacrifices, so it's easy for you
to sit in your white tower, make up lies and pontificate like the other
sacks of ***** you ally yourself with.
You are letting others suffer while you engage in your delusional conceit.
Anyone can fight
for people they know. It takes someone with a sense of true
compassion and fairness to fight for people they don't know.
Sounds more like an unhealthy obsession. You've now shown your true stripes:
Embryos are all you care about, and ***** everyone else....except yourself,
of course, since you have no dibilitating illness to concern yourself with.
And, just in case you do, you are free to cling adamantly to your crusade
and not avail yourself to any cures that may come from embryonic stem cell
research.
You don't give a ***** about people, as is evidenced by your tenuous grasp on
reality.
Notice, folks,
Great....here goes the speech FROM an unintelligent twit, TO the
unintelligent twits.
how this left wing liberal just jerked the discussion
from a logical, fact-based dialogue to an emotional, "because I said
so" exercise in whining.
Quite the opposite, you ignorant *****.
You started this with your sniveling diatribe of lies and unfounded claims
about the 'dangers' of embryonic stem cell research. Lies that you have yet
to substantiate, only perpetuated.
Fact-based? Yeah, I presented a shitload of facts, and you keep coming back
with your smarmy ***** and tear-jerker stories. Your argument, and I use the
term loosely for your benefit, is based on an unsupported premise and your
emotional whimpering with a few anecdotal stories about people you don't
know.
The only FACTS posted have been mine, and the people in *my* stories have
faces that I see.
Yes, folks....please notice that Terry hasn't backed up a damn thing he'
said, and when he's backed into a corner like the rat-***** that he is, out
comes the usual lie of 'liberal.'
I'm beginning to believe that 'liberal' is the right-wing euphemism for
crying 'uncle.'
He didn't refute a single thing I said when
I stood up to his lies and misrepresentations.
You lying *****.
Not only have I *NOT* lied, you consistently don't substantiate your claims.
Let us count the ways:
1.) "Because everyone knows that fetal stem cells cause tumors and other
disasterous side effects."
~~You posted no cite, even when requested.
2.) "And no one has figured out how to prevent this."
~~You posted no cite, even when requested.
3.) "But in the meantime, people like Reeve pass on investigating the use of
adult stem cells because they've been told to hold out for fetal stems
cells."
~~You posted no cite, even when requested.
4.) "It is considered ADULT because they are taken AFTER birth."
~~I showed this to be patently false in my reply, with cite: "Of course,
when you try to speak in sound bytes and absolutes, the truth never comes
out. This will shed some light on your dilemma:
http://www.isscr.org/science/faq.htm
~~end quote~~
5.) "The use of fetal stem cells is illegal in Portugal, one of the few
countries where it is illegal."
~~You posted no cite, therefore it is still an unfounded claim. I did fine
the following that would indicate that you are lying:
"In an attempt to provide background information on the status of the
debate, the European Commission (EC) published, in late September, a survey
of member states' regulatory approaches to the issue. It found that the
preparation of stem cells from supernumerary embryos is allowed by law in
Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Greece, the Netherlands, Sweden and the UK, while
the practice is prohibited in Austria, Germany, France, Ireland, Italy and,
under many circumstances, Spain. Luxembourg and Portugal currently have no
specific legislation on the subject."
Of note: "Luxembourg and Portugal currently have no specific legislation on
the subject." That means it's not illegal, liar.
Where's all your facts, liar?
Now I challenge you to show a single point I posted that I didn't back up
with evidence. Altering criteria faster than you were proven wrong will only
show the desperation of your stupidity.
By the way, you stupid *****...this is the actual story I spoke of about the
person in Austin that went to Portugal:
"Daniel El-Azzi, a bright 17-year-old who graduated from Austin's
Huntington-Surrey High School two years early, has been paralyzed since
diving head-first into shallow water at Emma Long Metropolitan Park three
months ago."
From the Austin American-Statesman, November 7, 2004
TinyURL:
http://tinyurl.com/6l5wm
Original:
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?s_hidethis=no&p_product=AASB&p_theme=aasb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_field_label-0=Author&p_field_label-1=title&p_bool_label-1=AND&s_dispstring=portugal%20AND%20date(11/06/2004%20to%2011/08/2004)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=11/06/2004%20to%2011/08/2004&p_field_advanced-0=&p_text_advanced-0=(portugal)&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no
***** you, again.
Because he can't.
People like him want you to do what he wants because he wants it. His
family and friends are more important than the general sanctity of
human life.
Actually, what you have shown is how these things typically turn out: You
low-lifes post a bunch of nonsense and lies. We mercilessly debunk them, and
challenge you to substantiate your claims.
You refuse, and post more *****, and/or, as you've done in this thread, begin
altering your criteria.
We call you on the floor for your lies, and you respond with the pandering
tripe of "see what I mean folks...."
Yeah, they can see exactly what you mean. You actually mean you are
completely full of *****, incapable of formulating a valid argument,
resorting to lies and emotional pleas to the 'crowd' as I decimate your
position.
--
-Donald in Austin
AA #2104
Apatriot #22
Atheist FF/EMT
.....and ordained minister
Stork pin recipient: May 1, 2003 -Madelyn
.
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