| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"EggNog" |
| Date: |
13 Jan 2005 06:40:29 AM |
| Object: |
What does the Bible say about abortion? |
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
Answer: There was no practice of abortion in Bible times. Therefore, the
Bible never specifically addresses the issue. However, there are numerous
teachings in Scripture that make it abundantly clear what God's view of
abortion is. Jeremiah 1:5 tells us that God knows us before He knits us in
the womb. Psalm 139:13-16 speaks of God's active role in our creation and
formation in the womb. Exodus 21:22-25 prescribes the same penalty of
someone who causes the death of a baby in the womb as the penalty for
someone who commits murder. This clearly indicates that God considers a
baby in the womb as just as much of a human being as a full-grown adult.
For the Christian, abortion is not a matter of a woman's right to choose.
It is a matter of the life or death of a human being made in God's image
(Genesis 1:26-27; 9:6).
The first argument that always arises against the Christian stance on
abortion is, "What about cases of rape and/or incest?" As horrible as it
would be to become pregnant as a result of rape and/or incest, does that
make the murder of a baby the answer? Two wrongs do not make a right. The
child who is a result of rape/incest could be given up for adoption to a
loving family unable to have children on their own - or the child could be
raised by its mother. Again, the baby should not be punished for the evil
acts of its father.
The second argument that usually arises against the Christian stance on
abortion is, "What about when the life of the mother is at risk?" Honestly,
this is the most difficult question to answer on the issue of abortion.
First, let's remember that this situation is the reason behind less than
one-tenth of one percent of the abortions done in the world today. Second,
let's remember that God is a God of miracles. He can preserve the life of a
mother and a child despite all the medical odds being against it.
Ultimately, though, this question can only be decided between a husband,
wife, and God. Any couple facing this extremely difficult situation should
pray to the Lord for wisdom (James 1:5) as to what He would have them to do.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
13 Jan 2005 08:08:28 AM |
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"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
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| User: "Patrick Lee Humphrey" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
13 Jan 2005 09:16:21 AM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Since abortion never has been prosecuted as murder in this country -- probably
because abortion is legal, and murder isn't -- could you be bothered to think
*before* you reply?
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 7, Milwaukee 0 (January 11)
NEXT GAME: Friday, January 14 vs. Manitoba, 7:35
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| User: "--sexkitten--" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
13 Jan 2005 09:46:54 AM |
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Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Since abortion never has been prosecuted as murder in this country -- probably
because abortion is legal, and murder isn't -- could you be bothered to think
You could have stopped here. :))
*before* you reply?
--
--sexkitten--
In Loving Memory of Jim Addison
9/18/71 - 12/30/04
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| User: "Patrick Lee Humphrey" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
13 Jan 2005 10:20:47 AM |
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--sexkitten-- <ladyhawk_twoFILTER@hotmail.com> writes:
Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Since abortion never has been prosecuted as murder in this country --
probably because abortion is legal, and murder isn't -- could you be
bothered to think
You could have stopped here. :))
Mea culpa. ;-)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Houston 7, Milwaukee 0 (January 11)
NEXT GAME: Friday, January 14 vs. Manitoba, 7:35
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| User: "Somewriter" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
15 Jan 2005 08:22:57 AM |
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On 13 Jan 2005 10:20:47 -0600, Patrick Lee Humphrey <patrick@io.com>
wrote:
--sexkitten-- <ladyhawk_twoFILTER@hotmail.com> writes:
Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Since abortion never has been prosecuted as murder in this country --
probably because abortion is legal, and murder isn't -- could you be
bothered to think
You could have stopped here. :))
Mea culpa. ;-)
Shame on you.
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| User: "Patrick Lee Humphrey" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
15 Jan 2005 11:35:01 PM |
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Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> writes:
On 13 Jan 2005 10:20:47 -0600, Patrick Lee Humphrey <patrick@io.com>
wrote:
--sexkitten-- <ladyhawk_twoFILTER@hotmail.com> writes:
Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Since abortion never has been prosecuted as murder in this country --
probably because abortion is legal, and murder isn't -- could you be
bothered to think
You could have stopped here. :))
Mea culpa. ;-)
Shame on you.
Okay, okay...I will go sit in de box, by myself, you know, and feel shame.
;-)
--PL"and den I get free"H </Denis Lemieux>
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| User: "Somewriter" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 01:08:05 PM |
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On 15 Jan 2005 23:35:01 -0600, Patrick Lee Humphrey <patrick@io.com>
wrote:
Somewriter <sappywriter@poetic.com> writes:
On 13 Jan 2005 10:20:47 -0600, Patrick Lee Humphrey <patrick@io.com>
wrote:
--sexkitten-- <ladyhawk_twoFILTER@hotmail.com> writes:
Patrick Lee Humphrey wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> writes:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Since abortion never has been prosecuted as murder in this country --
probably because abortion is legal, and murder isn't -- could you be
bothered to think
You could have stopped here. :))
Mea culpa. ;-)
Shame on you.
Okay, okay...I will go sit in de box, by myself, you know, and feel shame.
;-)
--PL"and den I get free"H </Denis Lemieux>
hahahahahaha
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
13 Jan 2005 09:14:24 AM |
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Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not murder.
Besides, why should I give a hoot what the Bible states?
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
13 Jan 2005 06:27:32 PM |
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"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not murder.
Proof please.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
14 Jan 2005 11:05:54 AM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not murder.
Proof please.
Provided countless times. Abortion is legal. Murder is not.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
14 Jan 2005 12:12:40 PM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cs8u5h$oib$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not murder.
Proof please.
Provided countless times. Abortion is legal. Murder is not.
So you think the Holocaust was okay since it was legal.
It's sad to realize that the pro-abortionist's only defense of legalized
abortion is that it's currently legal.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
16 Jan 2005 01:14:31 AM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not murder.
Proof please.
Provided countless times. Abortion is legal. Murder is not.
So you think the Holocaust was okay since it was legal.
1) It wasn't legal.
2) It wasn't okay.
3) You haven't the brains to know what I think about anything.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Sneechres" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 09:33:10 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Provided countless times. Abortion is legal. Murder is not.
So you think the Holocaust was okay since it was legal.
1) It wasn't legal.
Which German law during the Hitler regime extended legal protection to
Jews?
--S
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| User: "Sneechres" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 10:43:49 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Provided countless times. Abortion is legal. Murder is not.
So you think the Holocaust was okay since it was legal.
1) It wasn't legal.
Which German law during the Hitler regime extended legal protection to
Jews?
--S
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
14 Jan 2005 06:40:11 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in news:sYTFd.27473$Xs6.1524
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cs8u5h$oib$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not murder.
Proof please.
Provided countless times. Abortion is legal. Murder is not.
So you think the Holocaust was okay since it was legal.
You are an idiot, gaghemust. The holocaust was not leagal and involved
born_human-beings.
It's sad to realize that the pro-abortionist's only defense of legalized
abortion is that it's currently legal.
No, your delusional thinking process is what is sad.
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| User: "Sneechres" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 09:31:54 PM |
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BOB wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in news:sYTFd.27473$Xs6.1524
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:cs8u5h$oib$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Provided countless times. Abortion is legal. Murder is not.
So you think the Holocaust was okay since it was legal.
You are an idiot, gaghemust. The holocaust was not leagal
Yes, it actually was. There were different systems of justice in the
totalitarian regime of Germany, as Fraenkel points out:
"In the early years of the Hitler regime, a theoretical treatise on the
legal status of the Jews would have had to investigate whether the Jews
were being more or less justly treated. Such a question would not be
relevant today. It must be remembered that in dictatorial countries,
the dichotomy of justice and injustice has been supplanted by one of
legality and lawlessness. Finally, the Reichsgericht itself has
refused to recognize Jews living in Germany as 'persons' in the
legal sense. In a decision of June 27, 1936 the highest German court
condemned Jews to a 'civil death.' In February 1933 a contract was
signed between a motion-picture stage manager and a film company. The
contractual reasons for the termination of the relationship were:
'sickness, death, or similar causes rendering the stage manager's
work impossible.' 295 A short time after signing the contract, when
the anti-Semitic wave started on the grand scale, the company denounced
the contract and refused to pay the salary agreed upon. The court had
to determine whether the Jewish origin of a motion-picture stage
manager was equivalent to 'sickness and death' as a reason for the
dissolution of the contract. The Reichsgericht declared that an
analogy did exist and dismissed the complaint of the stage manager. It
argued that 'the former (liberal) theory of the legal status of the
"person" made no distinction between races...The National-Socialist
philosophy, however, requires that German law recognize only persons of
German origin or those who by law are declared equal to them and that
only Aryans should enjoy all legal rights and privileges. It is merely
a renewal of old principles to distinguish between groups having all
legal rights and those who have only a limited number of rights. The
complete deprivation of all rights is described a "civil" death:
the case before this court permits an analogy. --Fraenkel, "The Dual
State" p 95
and involved
born_human-beings.
Apparently German law did not distinguish between birth status any more
than it did racial groups.
--S
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
14 Jan 2005 07:26:01 PM |
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NOTHING.
It suggests you wait till the babies are born and THEN
smash them against the rocks. -- L.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
16 Jan 2005 12:41:56 AM |
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Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you are. This
is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other states have
similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
IC 35-42
ARTICLE 42. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON
IC 35-42-1
Chapter 1. Homicide
IC 35-42-1-0.5
Abortions exempt
Sec. 0.5. Sections 1, 3, and 4 of this chapter do not apply
to an abortion performed in compliance with:
(1) IC 16-34; or
(2) IC 35-1-58.5 (before its repeal).
As added by P.L.261-1997, SEC.2.
IC 35-42-1-1
Murder
Sec. 1. A person who:
(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human
being;
(2) kills another human being while committing or
attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product
tampering, criminal deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, or
carjacking;
(3) kills another human being while committing or
attempting to commit:
(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine, a
narcotic drug, or methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1);
(B) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III
controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-2);
(C) dealing in a schedule IV controlled
substance (IC 35-48-4-3); or
(D) dealing in a schedule V controlled
substance; or
(4) knowingly or intentionally kills a fetus that has
attained viability (as defined in IC 16-18-2-365);
commits murder, a felony.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.2. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340,
SEC.25; P.L.326-1987, SEC.2; P.L.296-1989, SEC.1; P.L.230-1993, SEC.2;
P.L.261-1997, SEC.3; P.L.17-2001, SEC.15.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar41/ch1.html
IC 35-41-1-14
"Human being" defined
Sec. 14. "Human being" means an individual who has been born
and is alive.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.15.
IC 35-41-1-22
"Person" defined
Sec. 22. (a) "Person" means a human being, corporation,
limited liability company, partnership, unincorporated association, or
governmental entity.
(b) "Person", for purposes of section 10.7 of this chapter,
means an adult or a minor.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.23. Amended by P.L.8-1993, SEC.509;
P.L.133-2002, SEC.64.
IC 35-42-1-0.5 clearly states that legal abortion is NOT murder.
And IC 35-41-1-14 clearly defines a person as an individual that who is
born and is alive.
Therefore, abortion is NOT murder, and not PERSON is harmed in an
abortion, and neither an embryo not a fetus is a person nor a human
being.
I have given you proof that abortion is not murder.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Gactimus" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
16 Jan 2005 08:37:15 AM |
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"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you are. This
is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other states have
similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
16 Jan 2005 06:24:27 PM |
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Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you are.
This
is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other states have
similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a HUMAN BEING. Therefore, the
specific definition of murder can only be given with respect to a body
of law. I gave proof that abortion is not murder using a current body
of law, law which defines a human being AND specifically excludes legal
abortion from being considered murder.
I gave you the proof that you asked for, and you did exactly what I
said that you would do. What's more, this proof was very easy to find.
If you had any intelligence, you could have done so yourself.
You asked a specific question, proof that abortion was not murder. I
gave you a complete answer to that question, with cites. That is not
in defense of abortion. That is in answer to your question. You just
cannot handle the fact that your question was answered honestly and
completely, and not in your favor.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
16 Jan 2005 10:11:53 PM |
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Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105921467.428190.167680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you are.
This
is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other states
have
similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is
currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a HUMAN BEING.
It also means to kill brutally or inhumanly.
Which abortion does not do in any case. After all, the women is
allowed to defend herself from unwanted use and harm to her person by
any reasonable means necessary. If anything, abortion is a case of
self defense.
By your definition, the
Holocaust wasn't murder.
No. It was murder. It was illegal to kill the Jews, Negros,
homosexuals, and gypsies without reason or trial, except as scapegoats
of the Nazi regime. The people convicted at Nuremburg were convicted
under the German law in existence at the time of the crime. The Nazis,
in the arrogance and hubris, never bothered to change the law.
Mark Sebree
.
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| User: "Gactimus" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 07:18:41 AM |
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"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105935113.765922.105260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105921467.428190.167680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you are.
This is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other states
have similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is
currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a HUMAN BEING.
It also means to kill brutally or inhumanly.
Which abortion does not do in any case. After all, the women is
allowed to defend herself from unwanted use and harm to her person by
any reasonable means necessary. If anything, abortion is a case of
self defense.
*****. The preborn is not the woman's property. This concept is an
explicit sanction of filial slavery. Parents are legal guardians of
children, never legal owners.
Abortion is the artificial, forcible, premature termination of a pregnancy
with the express purpose of intentionally killing innocent human life.
Childbirth is the natural, unforced, mature termination of a pregnancy
with the (natural) intent of promulgating human life.
.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 10:35:57 AM |
|
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Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105935113.765922.105260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105921467.428190.167680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you
are.
This is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other
states
have similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is
currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a HUMAN BEING.
It also means to kill brutally or inhumanly.
Which abortion does not do in any case. After all, the women is
allowed to defend herself from unwanted use and harm to her person
by
any reasonable means necessary. If anything, abortion is a case of
self defense.
*****.
My statement is a fact. The woman is defending herself from an
unwanted intrusion and use of her body.
The preborn is not the woman's property.
I never said it was. An embryo/fetus is not a person, nor is it a
human being, nor is there any obligation for the woman to continue an
unwanted pregnancy.
However, if the embryo/fetus is not wanted, and the woman does not want
to remain pregnant, it is an attacker, using and abusing her body
against her will. Therefore, she is allowed to take any reasonable
means to stop that use and attack.
This concept is an
explicit sanction of filial slavery.
And you are the one that wants to enslave the woman, and force her to
continue the hardships of an unwanted pregnancy against her will.
Parents are legal guardians of
children, never legal owners.
However, there are no children until birth. And the woman can give the
child away for another to care for at any time.
Abortion is the artificial, forcible, premature termination of a
pregnancy
with the express purpose of intentionally killing innocent human
life.
Close. There is no purpose of "intentionally killing innocent human
life". The purpose of an abortion is to end a pregnancy that the woman
does not want to continue, and thereby end what she considers to be an
undesirable medical condition. Her life is saved.
Childbirth is the natural, unforced, mature termination of a
pregnancy
with the (natural) intent of promulgating human life.
However, there is no obligation for a woman to continue an unwanted
pregnancy. Doing so is tantamount to slavery, since it forces the
woman to endure significant avoidable hardships without recourse, and
without being sentenced to do so in a court of law as punishment for a
crime.
Abortion is a valid alternative to pregnancy, if the woman chooses to
avail herself of it. Forcing a woman to continue an unwanted pregnancy
helps nobody. And forcing women to get abortions is just as bad. The
choice about whether to continue an unplanned pregnancy is up to the
woman exclusively. Her life, her body, her choice.
Mark Sebree
.
|
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| User: "Gactimus" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 11:11:57 AM |
|
|
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105979757.185392.103000@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105935113.765922.105260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105921467.428190.167680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you
are.
This is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other
states
have similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is
currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a HUMAN BEING.
It also means to kill brutally or inhumanly.
Which abortion does not do in any case. After all, the women is
allowed to defend herself from unwanted use and harm to her person by
any reasonable means necessary. If anything, abortion is a case of
self defense.
*****.
My statement is a fact. The woman is defending herself from an
unwanted intrusion and use of her body.
That has never been an argument for abortion.
The preborn is not the woman's property.
I never said it was. An embryo/fetus is not a person, nor is it a
human being, nor is there any obligation for the woman to continue an
unwanted pregnancy.
However, if the embryo/fetus is not wanted, and the woman does not want
to remain pregnant, it is an attacker, using and abusing her body
against her will. Therefore, she is allowed to take any reasonable
means to stop that use and attack.
Since when do we dole out the death penalty for that? Maybe Siamese twins
should be allowed to kill each other.
This concept is an explicit sanction of filial slavery.
And you are the one that wants to enslave the woman, and force her to
continue the hardships of an unwanted pregnancy against her will.
Aw, poor baby.
Parents are legal guardians of
children, never legal owners.
However, there are no children until birth. And the woman can give the
child away for another to care for at any time.
Abortion is the artificial, forcible, premature termination of a
pregnancy with the express purpose of intentionally killing innocent
human life.
Close. There is no purpose of "intentionally killing innocent human
life". The purpose of an abortion is to end a pregnancy that the woman
does not want to continue, and thereby end what she considers to be an
undesirable medical condition. Her life is saved.
Childbirth is the natural, unforced, mature termination of a pregnancy
with the (natural) intent of promulgating human life.
However, there is no obligation for a woman to continue an unwanted
pregnancy. Doing so is tantamount to slavery, since it forces the
woman to endure significant avoidable hardships without recourse, and
without being sentenced to do so in a court of law as punishment for a
crime.
Abortion is a valid alternative to pregnancy, if the woman chooses to
avail herself of it. Forcing a woman to continue an unwanted pregnancy
helps nobody. And forcing women to get abortions is just as bad. The
choice about whether to continue an unplanned pregnancy is up to the
woman exclusively. Her life, her body, her choice.
It's not her body.
.
|
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 11:42:49 AM |
|
|
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105979757.185392.103000@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105935113.765922.105260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105921467.428190.167680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is
not
murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you
are.
This is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other
states
have similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is
currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a HUMAN BEING.
It also means to kill brutally or inhumanly.
Which abortion does not do in any case. After all, the women is
allowed to defend herself from unwanted use and harm to her
person by
any reasonable means necessary. If anything, abortion is a case
of
self defense.
*****.
My statement is a fact. The woman is defending herself from an
unwanted intrusion and use of her body.
That has never been an argument for abortion.
The woman is under no obligation to continue an unwanted pregnancy.
She is relieving herself of an unwanted medical condition. She is not
obligated to give your opinions or your beliefs any consideration.
The preborn is not the woman's property.
I never said it was. An embryo/fetus is not a person, nor is it a
human being, nor is there any obligation for the woman to continue
an
unwanted pregnancy.
However, if the embryo/fetus is not wanted, and the woman does not
want
to remain pregnant, it is an attacker, using and abusing her body
against her will. Therefore, she is allowed to take any reasonable
means to stop that use and attack.
Since when do we dole out the death penalty for that?
Then you tell me how we end the pregnancy NOW, if we disallow abortion.
Forcing her to continue an unewanted pregnancy to completion is not an
option.
If the woman kills an assailant that is attacking her, there is no
murder and no "death penalty" since that is self defense. In an
abortion, the woman is defending herself from an unwanted use and abuse
of her body by any available means. There is no reason that she should
care about the life of the thing that is using and abusing her body.
Maybe Siamese twins
should be allowed to kill each other.
Sometimes, it is necessary to kill one in order for the other to
survive. Doctors usually try to separate the twins soon after birth,
which is why it is so rare to hear of any.
However, there is no obligation for one person to allow another to use
his or her body without his or her continuing consent. And that
includes donating blood or organs to save another person's life.
Therefore, there is no obligation for the woman to continue an unwanted
pregnancy, since the embryo/fetus is using her body without her
continuing consent.
This concept is an explicit sanction of filial slavery.
And you are the one that wants to enslave the woman, and force her
to
continue the hardships of an unwanted pregnancy against her will.
Aw, poor baby.
You have just shown what a low-life you are. You have no respect for
women, and you have no respect for others. You just desire to force
your opinion on others and dictate their lives to them.
Parents are legal guardians of
children, never legal owners.
However, there are no children until birth. And the woman can give
the
child away for another to care for at any time.
Abortion is the artificial, forcible, premature termination of a
pregnancy with the express purpose of intentionally killing
innocent
human life.
Close. There is no purpose of "intentionally killing innocent
human
life". The purpose of an abortion is to end a pregnancy that the
woman
does not want to continue, and thereby end what she considers to be
an
undesirable medical condition. Her life is saved.
Childbirth is the natural, unforced, mature termination of a
pregnancy
with the (natural) intent of promulgating human life.
However, there is no obligation for a woman to continue an unwanted
pregnancy. Doing so is tantamount to slavery, since it forces the
woman to endure significant avoidable hardships without recourse,
and
without being sentenced to do so in a court of law as punishment
for a
crime.
Abortion is a valid alternative to pregnancy, if the woman chooses
to
avail herself of it. Forcing a woman to continue an unwanted
pregnancy
helps nobody. And forcing women to get abortions is just as bad.
The
choice about whether to continue an unplanned pregnancy is up to
the
woman exclusively. Her life, her body, her choice.
It's not her body.
Then who's body is it? Slavery is illegal in the USA, in case you had
not heard. Therefore, she does not belong to anyone else, and she does
not belong to the state. Therefore, her body is her own. It belongs
to her, and she has absolute control over it. She gets to dictate who
and what has use of it, in what manner, and when. And she can withdraw
that consent at any time and for any reason
Her life, her body, her choice.
Mark Sebree
.
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| User: "Adam H." |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 07:32:45 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:18:41 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote,
akin to the neighing and braying of farmyard animals:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105935113.765922.105260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105921467.428190.167680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you are.
This is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other states
have similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is
currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a HUMAN BEING.
It also means to kill brutally or inhumanly.
Which abortion does not do in any case. After all, the women is
allowed to defend herself from unwanted use and harm to her person by
any reasonable means necessary. If anything, abortion is a case of
self defense.
*****. The preborn is not the woman's property. This concept is an
explicit sanction of filial slavery. Parents are legal guardians of
children, never legal owners.
Abortion is the artificial, forcible, premature termination of a pregnancy
with the express purpose of intentionally killing innocent human life.
False. The 'express purpose' would be determined by the woman
undergoing the abortion, not by you.
Childbirth is the natural, unforced, mature termination of a pregnancy
with the (natural) intent of promulgating human life. 3
Except when it's induced or premature, of course.
---
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
- Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "Somewriter" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 07:33:23 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:18:41 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105935113.765922.105260@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105921467.428190.167680@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105857716.314072.303340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in
news:1105629264.620746.307610@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Gactimus wrote:
"EggNog" <Egg@super.net> wrote in
news:urednX3Vl92g8XvcRVn-rw@intertex.net:
Question: "What does the Bible say about abortion?"
"Thou shalt not murder."
Which has nothing to do with abortion since abortion is not
murder.
Proof please.
Not that you will believe it even with cites, but here you are.
This is for Indiana, since that is where I am from. Other states
have similar laws.
http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar42/ch1.html
BWAHAHAHA!!! So your only defense of abortion is that it is
currently
legal. How droll. Slavery was legal too you know.
Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a HUMAN BEING.
It also means to kill brutally or inhumanly.
Which abortion does not do in any case. After all, the women is
allowed to defend herself from unwanted use and harm to her person by
any reasonable means necessary. If anything, abortion is a case of
self defense.
*****. The preborn is not the woman's property. This concept is an
explicit sanction of filial slavery. Parents are legal guardians of
children, never legal owners.
Abortion is the artificial, forcible, premature termination of a pregnancy
with the express purpose of intentionally killing innocent human life.
You do so everybody when you have sex (assuming you have sex).
.
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| User: "natch" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 11:52:19 AM |
|
|
argue all you want, more people feel that you cant murder the unborn
than feel it is murder to get rid of a pile of goo
pro choice people are not for late term abortions unless it saves the
womans life
now if youve devoted your life to changing that go and run for office,
arguing here any longer wont do any good
.
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| User: "Sneechres" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
17 Jan 2005 09:59:08 PM |
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Mark Sebree wrote:
By your definition, the
Holocaust wasn't murder.
No. It was murder.
Not according to German law, protection of which was extended only to
Aryans or those who by law were declared equal to Aryans was early as
1936.
Of course, you also have to inconceivably overlook all the propaganda
as well (The Jew as vermin, etc.)
It was illegal to kill the Jews, Negros,
homosexuals, and gypsies without reason or trial,
Really, that's why 20 million people died without a trial and no one
did anything about it until after the war?
except as scapegoats
of the Nazi regime. The people convicted at Nuremburg were convicted
under the German law in existence at the time of the crime.
No, they absolutely were not. It is common knowledge that Nurnberg was
what is called "ex-post-facto."
"The legal basis for the trial was established by the 'London Charter',
issued on August 8, 1945, which restricted the trial to "trial and
punishment of the major war criminals of the European Axis
countries"...The legal basis for the jurisdiction of the court was that
by the Instrument of Surrender of Germany, political authority for
Germany had been transferred to the Allied Control Council which having
sovereign power over Germany could choose to punish violations of
international law and the laws of war. Because the court was limited to
violations of the laws of war, it did not have jurisdiction over crimes
that took place before the outbreak of war on September 1, 1939...
The trials were conducted under their own rules of evidence; the
indictments were created ex post facto and were not based on any
nation's law; the tu quoque defense was removed; and the entire spirit
of the assembly was "victor's justice"...
The definition of what constitutes a war crime is described by the
Nuremberg Principles, a document which was created as a result of the
trial..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials
Feel free to prove me wrong by showing where the Court cited which
German laws were violated.
The Nazis,
in the arrogance and hubris, never bothered to change the law.
Really, what do you call the Nuernberg laws???? You ARE aware of the
German Reichsgericht declarations, aren't you?
--S
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the Bible say about abortion? |
19 Jan 2005 12:30:11 AM |
|
|
On 17 Jan 2005 19:59:08 -0800, while scaling the Mt.
Everest, "Sneechres" <sneechres@yahoo.com>
pontificated:
Mark Sebree wrote:
By your definition, the
Holocaust wasn't murder.
No. It was murder.
Not according to German law, protection of which was extended only to
Aryans or those who by law were declared equal to Aryans was early as
1936.
Of course, you also have to inconceivably overlook all the propaganda
as well (The Jew as vermin, etc.)
It was illegal to kill the Jews, Negros,
homosexuals, and gypsies without reason or trial,
Really, that's why 20 million people died without a trial and no one
did anything about it until after the war?
except as scapegoats
of the Nazi regime. The people convicted at Nuremburg were convicted
under the German law in existence at the time of the crime.
No, they absolutely were not. It is common knowledge that Nurnberg was
what is called "ex-post-facto."
"The legal basis for the trial was established by the 'London Charter',
issued on August 8, 1945, which restricted the trial to "trial and
punishment of the major war criminals of the European Axis
countries"...The legal basis for the jurisdiction of the court was that
by the Instrument of Surrender of Germany, political authority for
Germany had been transferred to the Allied Control Council which having
sovereign power over Germany could choose to punish violations of
international law and the laws of war. Because the court was limited to
violations of the laws of war, it did not have jurisdiction over crimes
that took place before the outbreak of war on September 1, 1939...
The trials were conducted under their own rules of evidence; the
indictments were created ex post facto and were not based on any
nation's law; the tu quoque defense was removed; and the entire spirit
of the assembly was "victor's justice"...
The definition of what constitutes a war crime is described by the
Nuremberg Principles, a document which was created as a result of the
trial..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials
Feel free to prove me wrong by showing where the Court cited which
German laws were violated.
The Nazis,
in the arrogance and hubris, never bothered to change the law.
Really, what do you call the Nuernberg laws???? You ARE aware of the
German Reichsgericht declarations, aren't you?
Very good. :)
___
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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