| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Dr. Gamete" |
| Date: |
05 Aug 2003 11:59:58 AM |
| Object: |
When does human life really begin? |
The abortion issue turns on how one answers the question of when human
life begins. About 400 years ago early scientists argued that what
becomes a baby existed pre-formed in male germ cells. A tiny baby,
called a homunculus, was imagined to inhabit each sperm. The woman's
egg or womb was thought by these male scientists to serve only to
incubate the homunculus. In this view human life began with
spermatogenesis.
In 1651, William Harvey propose his ex ovo omnia (everything comes
from the egg) theory. In this view human life begins with oogenesis.
Sperm were actually hypothetical entities until Von Leeuwenhoek
invented the microscope in 1677 and discovered spermatozoid. In 1694,
Niklaas Hartsoecker made his famous drawings of sperm showing tiny
babies in the sperm's head. In 1751, Pierre-Louis Moreau de Maupertius
studied the occurrence of polydactyly in several generations of a
Berlin family and became convinced that Harvey's theory was the
correct one. In 1827, Karl Ernst von Baer discovered the mammalian
ovum, but viewed sperm as mere parasites. It wasn't until 1840 that
Martin Barry came up with the crazy idea that spermatozoa actually
enter the egg. In 1875, Oscar Hertwig, based on his study of sea
urchin reproduction, proposed that both egg and sperm are required for
reproduction, and that both physically unite during the process we now
refer to as fertilization. In 1877 fertilization was actually observed
happening in starfish eggs.
Was this, then, the first scientific proof that life begins with
fertilization? While this has been a popular view in recent times, a
better case can be made that both of the early theories were correct,
and that life, including human life, begins with both spermatogenesis
and oogenesis. It is gametogenesis, then, that gives rise to a human
being. Fertilization, which takes about 24 hours, is no "moment of
conception" that many imagine, but rather one of several stages in
human development, the earliest being gametogenesis. If an artificial
womb were ever made, what would you have to put into it? Although a
fertilized ovum would work, the first, the most basic thing you would
need is not a zygote, but a mature ovum and sperm (QED).
So again, when does human life begin? Do you equivocate like some and
point to viability, implantation, or perhaps the initiation of a fetal
heartbeat as the beginning of human life? Or perhaps, like Carl
Sagan, you think that human life doesn't begin until the fetus
develops distinctly human brain waves, since an adult without brain
waves is considered by most to be dead? If you're uncomfortable
standing on the slippery slope and are looking for a firm place to
stand, the erroneous notion that the 24-hour process of fertilization
is the beginning must be abandoned. The view that must now be
embraced, in light of advancements in scientific knowledge, is that
life begins with gametogenesis.
More, of course, could be said, but I've taken up enough bandwidth.
Thanks for reading thus far. For a more in-depth discussion of this
view and its implications please visit:
http://www.alysion.org/truelife/
.
|
|
| User: "Bob SD" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
18 Aug 2003 02:47:58 PM |
|
|
(Trish) wrote in
news:23be6401.0308180852.697f1762@posting.google.com:
Nonsense. Here's another example. I personally am anti-circumcision
when it comes to foreskins. I am vehemently opposed to routine
elective circumcision for baby boys. However, I realize that at this
point in time it would do more harm than good to have laws against
it. Therefore, I'm pro-parental-choice when it comes to
circumcision, while in no way pro-circumcision.
That's a good point. Come to think of it pro-choicers should probably
receive more credit than they currently get for supporting someone's
right to make their own decision on an act they may find personally
abhorrent. That definitely takes some guts.
Not as much "guts" as it takes for those idiots who, for some weird
reason, think they should be able to make reproductive choices and
decisions for other people, especially for other people who they don't
even know. Now that_takes_guts.
Trish
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Pillsbury" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
18 Aug 2003 04:15:58 PM |
|
|
Bob <SD> writes:
Discotrish@msn.com (Trish) wrote in
news:23be6401.0308180852.697f1762@posting.google.com:
[...]
That's a good point. Come to think of it pro-choicers should
probably receive more credit than they currently get for
supporting someone's right to make their own decision on an act
they may find personally abhorrent. That definitely takes some
guts.
Not as much "guts" as it takes for those idiots who, for some weird
reason, think they should be able to make reproductive choices and
decisions for other people, especially for other people who they
don't even know. Now that_takes_guts.
No, I have to say that Trish is right; it takes more guts to fight
for someone's right to do something which is unpopular and, to you,
repugnant than it does to just make an exception because you they're
doing something "icky". Not that I'm trying to pat myself on the back
here; I don't find abortion repugnant.
--
Matt Pillsbury "The brain is an important learning
pillsy@mac.com tool, Meatwad."--ATHF
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
14 Aug 2003 01:39:14 PM |
|
|
"Trish" <Discotrish@msn.com> wrote in message
news:23be6401.0308131321.74c48ef5@posting.google.com...
When the choice in question is abortion, that most certainly is what
you are "pro"-moting.
See what I mean? You purposely twist the truth to suit your anti-choice
agenda. You know that pro-choice means pro-choice and that the choice
can
be to carry to term or to abort. It favors neither choice or decision.
Why do you have to lie to support your position?
I do think it's progress (in a sense) that some so-called pro-choicers
do, in fact, try to distance themselves from the act of abortion. (as
if there were something inherently wrong with it. And there is!)
I don't try to distance myself from it- I got about as up- close to the act
as you can get. Twice.
What I DO see wrong is the attitude of some providers. Like adoption
providers, you have doctors who care and doctors who care about money. The
first clinic I went to was the poster child for the "abortion mill"; rude,
discourteous staff, uncaring doctor, assembly- line procedure. I went
because it was the cheapest place in town. Most women went because it was
the cheapest place in town. The second time, my fiance paid the bill and he
insisted on a decent place.
However if I vote in favor of a law that allows gambling (so that
others may do so, not necessarily myself), that is in fact a
pro-gambling position. Not merely "pro-choice." Same thing if I vote
to legalize prostition or drugs or whatever. You are supporting that
choice even if made by others. To distance yourself from the actual
act of abortion is an interesting linguistic limbo dance but
ultimately does not change what you are supporting. If you feel
something has been "twisted," perhaps it is the philosophical
underpinnings of your arguments. And if you feel discomfort with that,
well, rightly so.
Trish
.
|
|
|
| User: "Trish" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
18 Aug 2003 11:47:15 AM |
|
|
I don't try to distance myself from it- I got about as up- close to the act
as you can get. Twice.
What I DO see wrong is the attitude of some providers. Like adoption
providers, you have doctors who care and doctors who care about money. The
first clinic I went to was the poster child for the "abortion mill"; rude,
discourteous staff, uncaring doctor, assembly- line procedure. I went
because it was the cheapest place in town. Most women went because it was
the cheapest place in town. The second time, my fiance paid the bill and he
insisted on a decent place.
You get what you pay for, with abortion as with anything else.
Trish
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
20 Aug 2003 12:57:57 AM |
|
|
<no@spam.com> wrote:
Easy to win the argument if you insist on sweeping all opposing arguments
under the rug.
Hasn't worked for you.
Silly fat retarded feminazi *****.
Impressive "argument".
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
19 Aug 2003 01:45:01 AM |
|
|
In article <23be6401.0308180847.6b2b95f1@posting.google.com>,
Discotrish@msn.com says...
You get what you pay for, with abortion as with anything else.
And what you pay for in arranging the safe, legal, early ending of a
pregnancy is a safe, legal end to that pregnancy. You get what you pay
for (the time, equipment, clinic, staffing etc of trained doctors and
nurses to perform a simple minor surgical (or occasionally medical)
pregnancy termination).
Ditto if you pay for a safe, legal, term ending of the pregnancy often
by the same staff in the same or similarly equipped surroundings. Even
though this is generally less safe for you, as the patient, than an
early ending to the pregnancy.
Is that a problem?
If so, what is the problem, exactly?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
19 Aug 2003 10:52:18 AM |
|
|
In article <3F421866.90AC69A1@spam.com>, says...
Subject: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda)
From:
Newsgroups: talk.abortion, alt.abortion
Pat Winstanley wrote:
In article <23be6401.0308180847.6b2b95f1@posting.google.com>,
Discotrish@msn.com says...
You get what you pay for, with abortion as with anything else.
And what you pay for in arranging the safe, legal, early ending of a
pregnancy is a safe, legal end to that pregnancy. You get what you pay
for (the time, equipment, clinic, staffing etc of trained doctors and
nurses to perform a simple minor surgical (or occasionally medical)
pregnancy termination).
Ditto if you pay for a safe, legal, term ending of the pregnancy often
by the same staff in the same or similarly equipped surroundings. Even
though this is generally less safe for you, as the patient, than an
early ending to the pregnancy.
Is that a problem?
If so, what is the problem, exactly?
Easy
Then explain what the problem is that you see with being legally
permitted to get medical treatment of *your* choice for *your* medical
condition...
.... and also explain why that should apply only to you, and not to
anyone else regarding their medical condition.
Also explain exactly what business it is of religions, governments,
neighbours, friends, even spouses/parents what medical treatment *you*
and (probably in consultation with your doctor) decide to have for
*your* medical condition...
.... and why the same doesn't apply to anyone else making decisions on
their medical treatment for their medical condition.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob SD" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
13 Aug 2003 05:51:41 PM |
|
|
(Trish) wrote in
news:23be6401.0308131321.74c48ef5@posting.google.com:
When the choice in question is abortion, that most certainly is
what you are "pro"-moting.
See what I mean? You purposely twist the truth to suit your
anti-choice agenda. You know that pro-choice means pro-choice and
that the choice can be to carry to term or to abort. It favors
neither choice or decision. Why do you have to lie to support your
position?
I do think it's progress (in a sense) that some so-called pro-choicers
do, in fact, try to distance themselves from the act of abortion. (as
if there were something inherently wrong with it. And there is!)
However if I vote in favor of a law that allows gambling (so that
others may do so, not necessarily myself), that is in fact a
pro-gambling position. Not merely "pro-choice." Same thing if I vote
to legalize prostition or drugs or whatever. You are supporting that
choice even if made by others. To distance yourself from the actual
act of abortion is an interesting linguistic limbo dance but
ultimately does not change what you are supporting. If you feel
something has been "twisted," perhaps it is the philosophical
underpinnings of your arguments. And if you feel discomfort with that,
well, rightly so.
Trish
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
pro-choicer n.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Now you look up the words truth, honesty and integrity. Study them.
Practice them. They will present a positive change for you.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
13 Aug 2003 07:41:04 PM |
|
|
"Bob" <SD> wrote in message news:Xns93D6A173DB3D7SD@153.80.109.11...
Discotrish@msn.com (Trish) wrote in
news:23be6401.0308131321.74c48ef5@posting.google.com:
When the choice in question is abortion, that most certainly is
what you are "pro"-moting.
See what I mean? You purposely twist the truth to suit your
anti-choice agenda. You know that pro-choice means pro-choice and
that the choice can be to carry to term or to abort. It favors
neither choice or decision. Why do you have to lie to support your
position?
I do think it's progress (in a sense) that some so-called pro-choicers
do, in fact, try to distance themselves from the act of abortion. (as
if there were something inherently wrong with it. And there is!)
However if I vote in favor of a law that allows gambling (so that
others may do so, not necessarily myself), that is in fact a
pro-gambling position. Not merely "pro-choice." Same thing if I vote
to legalize prostition or drugs or whatever. You are supporting that
choice even if made by others. To distance yourself from the actual
act of abortion is an interesting linguistic limbo dance but
ultimately does not change what you are supporting. If you feel
something has been "twisted," perhaps it is the philosophical
underpinnings of your arguments. And if you feel discomfort with that,
well, rightly so.
Trish
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
pro-choicer n.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth
Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Now you look up the words truth, honesty and integrity. Study them.
Practice them. They will present a positive change for you.
And here is where we demonstrate that most of the pro-choicers in this news
group don't understand what pro-choice means.
Even in the definition stated above it states "the choices"
favor
the choices
Favoring and supporting the legal right of women and girls to
choose
Wheter or not to carry to term
There are your choices
Amaing though how the term applies for women and/or girls only and they
still can't see the discrimination
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chris Owens" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
15 Aug 2003 07:08:10 AM |
|
|
Osprey wrote:
And here is where we demonstrate that most of the pro-choicers in this news
group don't understand what pro-choice means.
Even in the definition stated above it states "the choices"
favor
the choices
Favoring and supporting the legal right of women and girls to
choose
Wheter or not to carry to term
There are your choices
Amaing though how the term applies for women and/or girls only and they
still can't see the discrimination
I am perfectly willing to let any man who becomes pregnant decide
for himself whether or not he wants to have an abortion, Osprey.
Chris Owens
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
15 Aug 2003 09:10:23 AM |
|
|
"Chris Owens" <caowens880@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3F3CCD2A.C785776A@hotmail.com...
Osprey wrote:
And here is where we demonstrate that most of the pro-choicers in this
news
group don't understand what pro-choice means.
Even in the definition stated above it states "the choices"
favor
the choices
Favoring and supporting the legal right of women and girls to
choose
Wheter or not to carry to term
There are your choices
Amaing though how the term applies for women and/or girls only and they
still can't see the discrimination
I am perfectly willing to let any man who becomes pregnant decide
for himself whether or not he wants to have an abortion, Osprey.
Chris Owens
Sure, me too. But that will never happen.
I am still though talking about the term pro-choice and how I think it is a
bad term.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chris Owens" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
16 Aug 2003 03:28:53 AM |
|
|
Osprey wrote:
I am still though talking about the term pro-choice and how I think it is a
bad term.
It's an accurate term, Osprey. 'Pro-abortion' implies that one
believes that the appropriate outcome to pregnancy is abortion.
I don't think that. Pro-choice, OTOH, both implies that there is
a choice -- abortion or carrying to term -- and that one favors
pregnant women each making their own, appropriate, choice. I do
not hesitate to admit that abortion IS one of the choices; but,
only one of them.
Chris Owens
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Trish" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
18 Aug 2003 11:40:55 AM |
|
|
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
pro-choicer n.
Citing dictionary definitions does not change what you are supporting.
All laws are about choice. Not just ones pertaining to abortion.
Trish
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob SD" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
18 Aug 2003 12:28:19 PM |
|
|
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in news:jn70b.181925
$YN5.134234@sccrnsc01:
"Trish" <Discotrish@msn.com> wrote in message
news:23be6401.0308180840.7f580d76@posting.google.com...
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
Citing dictionary definitions does not change what you are supporting.
Right. We are supporting choice.
All laws are about choice. Not just ones pertaining to abortion.
Everybody knows that "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are used in regards to
abortion.
Everybody except Trish, apparently.
.
|
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
18 Aug 2003 09:09:56 PM |
|
|
"Bob" <SD> wrote in message news:Xns93DB6AA3F568ASD@153.80.109.11...
"M is for Malapert" <minxs@sonic.net> wrote in news:jn70b.181925
$YN5.134234@sccrnsc01:
"Trish" <Discotrish@msn.com> wrote in message
news:23be6401.0308180840.7f580d76@posting.google.com...
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
Citing dictionary definitions does not change what you are supporting.
Right. We are supporting choice.
All laws are about choice. Not just ones pertaining to abortion.
Everybody knows that "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are used in regards to
abortion.
Everybody except Trish, apparently.
I'm slowly getting the idea that Trish knows very little about most things.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob SD" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
18 Aug 2003 12:24:48 PM |
|
|
(Trish) wrote in
news:23be6401.0308180840.7f580d76@posting.google.com:
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---- ------
pro-choicer n.
Citing dictionary definitions does not change what you are supporting.
All laws are about choice. Not just ones pertaining to abortion.
Trish
Like I said, for the dense...
.
|
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
18 Aug 2003 11:59:04 PM |
|
|
"Bob" <SD> wrote in message news:Xns93DB6A0B52C1BSD@153.80.109.11...
Discotrish@msn.com (Trish) wrote in
news:23be6401.0308180840.7f580d76@posting.google.com:
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---- ------
pro-choicer n.
Citing dictionary definitions does not change what you are supporting.
All laws are about choice. Not just ones pertaining to abortion.
Trish
Like I said, for the dense...
Wasn't Papa Jack running loose around somewhere screaming about dictionary
definitions and how almighty important they are?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob SD" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
19 Aug 2003 12:18:18 PM |
|
|
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in
news:bhsar2$2lg2q$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de:
"Bob" <SD> wrote in message news:Xns93DB6A0B52C1BSD@153.80.109.11...
Discotrish@msn.com (Trish) wrote in
news:23be6401.0308180840.7f580d76@posting.google.com:
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to
choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
--- ---- ------
pro-choicer n.
Citing dictionary definitions does not change what you are
supporting. All laws are about choice. Not just ones pertaining to
abortion.
Trish
Like I said, for the dense...
Wasn't Papa Jack running loose around somewhere screaming about
dictionary definitions and how almighty important they are?
Probably. They are only important to the anti-choice zealots when it
favors their postion. Go figure.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bob SD" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
19 Aug 2003 04:37:47 PM |
|
|
Bob <SD> wrote in news:Xns93DC68F2B2632SD@153.80.109.11:
"--sexkitten--" <not@naddress.com> wrote in
news:bhsar2$2lg2q$1@ID-163025.news.uni-berlin.de:
"Bob" <SD> wrote in message news:Xns93DB6A0B52C1BSD@153.80.109.11...
Discotrish@msn.com (Trish) wrote in
news:23be6401.0308180840.7f580d76@posting.google.com:
You still don't get it do you? OK, one more time for the dense:
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to
choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
--- ---- ------
pro-choicer n.
Citing dictionary definitions does not change what you are
supporting. All laws are about choice. Not just ones pertaining to
abortion.
Trish
Like I said, for the dense...
Wasn't Papa Jack running loose around somewhere screaming about
dictionary definitions and how almighty important they are?
Probably. They are only important to the anti-choice zealots when it
favors their postion. Go figure.
Make that position, not "postion". Fat fingers and slow braincells.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "--sexkitten--" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
13 Aug 2003 11:22:26 PM |
|
|
Some reading for you about your wonderful "choice" :
www.exiledmothers.com
Sounds SOOO much better. Isn't everyone so HAPPY???
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: "Pro-choice": attacking adoption, to promote abortion |
14 Aug 2003 01:38:59 AM |
|
|
--sexkitten-- wrote:
Some reading for you about your wonderful "choice" :
www.exiledmothers.com
Sounds SOOO much better. Isn't everyone so HAPPY???
Of course, the key word on that site that sets off the pro-abortion liberal
is "industry". What a pity they can never see that word when it is coupled
with "abortion."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Krisblake" |
|
| Title: Re: "Anti-Choice": attacking abortion, to promote forced birth and adoption. |
14 Aug 2003 04:48:55 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 18:38:59 +1200, wrote:
--sexkitten-- wrote:
Some reading for you about your wonderful "choice" :
www.exiledmothers.com
Sounds SOOO much better. Isn't everyone so HAPPY???
Of course, the key word on that site that sets off the pro-abortion liberal
is "industry".
No, it's an article about mothers that have lost their children to
those running adoption mills. It's all about *money,* my dear -- it
has absolutely *****-all to do with the well-being of children.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Pat Winstanley" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
12 Aug 2003 08:03:46 AM |
|
|
In article <23be6401.0308112058.4c37964e@posting.google.com>,
says...
Subject: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda)
From: (Trish)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion, alt.abortion
I am uncomfortable with idiot anti-choice zealots like yourself who refuse
to accept the fact that pro-choice is not the same as pro-abortion.
Whenever facts don't suit your agenda you twist the facts and resort to
outright lies. Are you proud of those dispicable tactics?
When the choice in question is abortion, that most certainly is what
you are "pro"-moting. It is interesting to see you get so lathered up
that you need to call people names. While I disagree profoundly with
your position, I do not disrespect you as a person. You have every
right to hold your view even as I question your reasons for it. May I
gently suggest your disrespect for others (in this case based merely
on a philosophical disagreement) seems to extend far beyond the fetus.
Why do refuse to accept that being "pro-choice" does not mean advocating
that any, all or most pregnancies should be aborted?
Please explain why you appear to be incapable of comprehending simple
English...
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
13 Aug 2003 12:54:59 AM |
|
|
Pat Winstanley wrote:
In article <23be6401.0308112058.4c37964e@posting.google.com>,
says...
Subject: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda)
From: (Trish)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion, alt.abortion
I am uncomfortable with idiot anti-choice zealots like yourself who refuse
to accept the fact that pro-choice is not the same as pro-abortion.
Whenever facts don't suit your agenda you twist the facts and resort to
outright lies. Are you proud of those dispicable tactics?
When the choice in question is abortion, that most certainly is what
you are "pro"-moting. It is interesting to see you get so lathered up
that you need to call people names. While I disagree profoundly with
your position, I do not disrespect you as a person. You have every
right to hold your view even as I question your reasons for it. May I
gently suggest your disrespect for others (in this case based merely
on a philosophical disagreement) seems to extend far beyond the fetus.
Why do refuse to accept that being "pro-choice" does not mean advocating
that any, all or most pregnancies should be aborted?
Please explain why you appear to be incapable of comprehending simple
English...
Why do you refuse to accept that "pro-abortion" *doesn't* mean
advocating abortion for every pregnancy? No one's accusing of *that*,
are they?
No. It's *you* who's come up with this erroneous meaning of the word
pro-abortion, on the sole basis of which you reject the label!
Well I've got news for you, feminist. Everyone else *does* know what it
means!
So keep on being a pedantic twat if you like. It's really all you're
demonstrating with this line of argument.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
12 Aug 2003 01:00:27 PM |
|
|
<no@spam.com> wrote:
Why do you refuse to accept that "pro-abortion" *doesn't* mean
advocating abortion for every pregnancy?
Why do you keep lying about the meaning of English words?
pro-: favoring : supporting : championing
Mirriam Webster Dictionary
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
12 Aug 2003 01:18:58 PM |
|
|
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:bhb9vr$cjb$1@bolt.sonic.net...
<no@spam.com> wrote:
Why do you refuse to accept that "pro-abortion" *doesn't* mean
advocating abortion for every pregnancy?
Why do you keep lying about the meaning of English words?
pro-: favoring : supporting : championing
Mirriam Webster Dictionary
Amazing, yet when questioned about pro-choice and when you were asked what
choices do you favor, you completely ignored that and said the choices were
not the issue.
pro -: favoring
choice -: selection
What choices are you favoring?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Krisblake" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
12 Aug 2003 03:27:58 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:18:58 -0400, "Osprey" <noneedstoknow@mail.com>
wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:bhb9vr$cjb$1@bolt.sonic.net...
<no@spam.com> wrote:
Why do you refuse to accept that "pro-abortion" *doesn't* mean
advocating abortion for every pregnancy?
Why do you keep lying about the meaning of English words?
pro-: favoring : supporting : championing
Mirriam Webster Dictionary
Amazing, yet when questioned about pro-choice....
Without further ado, here's the definition fo Pro-Choice:
(I hope this clears up everything for you.)
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Pro-Choice
pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose
whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
13 Aug 2003 12:20:23 PM |
|
|
Osprey <noneedstoknow@mail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
<no@spam.com> wrote:
Why do you refuse to accept that "pro-abortion" *doesn't* mean
advocating abortion for every pregnancy?
Why do you keep lying about the meaning of English words?
pro-: favoring : supporting : championing
Mirriam Webster Dictionary
Amazing, yet when questioned about pro-choice and when you were asked what
choices do you favor,
I wrote that I do not favor any particular choice. I favor the
freedom and the right to make choices and not have to obey the
dictates of immoral control freaks like you.
pro -: favoring
choice -: selection
What choices are you favoring?
None. Favoring CHOICE.
How did you get to be such an illiterate moron?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
13 Aug 2003 12:36:48 PM |
|
|
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:bhds0m$q4t$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Osprey <noneedstoknow@mail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
<no@spam.com> wrote:
Why do you refuse to accept that "pro-abortion" *doesn't* mean
advocating abortion for every pregnancy?
Why do you keep lying about the meaning of English words?
pro-: favoring : supporting : championing
Mirriam Webster Dictionary
Amazing, yet when questioned about pro-choice and when you were asked
what
choices do you favor,
I wrote that I do not favor any particular choice. I favor the
freedom and the right to make choices and not have to obey the
dictates of immoral control freaks like you.
pro -: favoring
choice -: selection
What choices are you favoring?
None. Favoring CHOICE.
What choice?
Do you favor a persons choice to shoot someone?
Do you favor a persons choice to drink and drive?
What choices?
You obviously favor any choice, wrong or right
How did you get to be such an illiterate moron?
I still feel sorry for you, it must have been a shame when you were in
school wasting away while others were actually getting a education.
That white powder will do that to you, does it all the time.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: When does human life really begin? (Pro-lie propaganda) |
13 Aug 2003 12:43:29 PM |
|
|
Osprey <noneedstoknow@mail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Osprey <noneedstoknow@mail.com> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
<no@spam.com> wrote:
Why do you refuse to accept that "pro-abortion" *doesn't* mean
advocating abortion for every pregnancy?
Why do you keep lying about the meaning of English words?
pro-: favoring : supporting : championing
Mirriam Webster Dictionary
Amazing, yet when questioned about pro-choice and when you were asked
what
choices do you favor,
I wrote that I do not favor any particular choice. I favor the
freedom and the right to make choices and not have to obey the
dictates of immoral control freaks like you.
pro -: favoring
choice -: selection
What choices are you favoring?
None. Favoring CHOICE.
What choice?
You _are_ illiterate.
Do you favor a persons choice to shoot someone?
Do you favor a persons choice to drink and drive?
And a dumbshit as well.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
