| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Xomicron" |
| Date: |
26 May 2004 04:23:09 PM |
| Object: |
Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who reject
the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy and
will keep believing his lies.
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| User: "Laura Gonzalez" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
26 May 2004 11:27:33 PM |
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On Wed, 26 May 2004 21:23:09 GMT, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who reject
the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy and
will keep believing his lies.
Hah! Are you talking about Kerry or some bishops involved in the
pedophile scandal?
Next Sunday, when you're on "Wafer Watch," ask people if they use
artificial birth control, especially the small families. ABC is
intrinsically evil, you know. Then ask your local reps and national
ones if they support ABC. Also divorce. If they do, you cannot vote
for them and still consider yourself Catholic.
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
27 May 2004 08:02:32 AM |
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Laura Gonzalez <me@home.net> wrote in message news:<aerab0tat3t4mojcv48ofqe0ld8s4cic9g@4ax.com>...
On Wed, 26 May 2004 21:23:09 GMT, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who reject
the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy and
will keep believing his lies.
Hah! Are you talking about Kerry or some bishops involved in the
pedophile scandal?
Next Sunday, when you're on "Wafer Watch," ask people if they use
artificial birth control, especially the small families. ABC is
intrinsically evil, you know. Then ask your local reps and national
ones if they support ABC. Also divorce. If they do, you cannot vote
for them and still consider yourself Catholic.
Very good point, Laura. Why isn't there a Wafer-Contracep Police in
church every Sunday.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
26 May 2004 10:02:59 PM |
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Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church?
With all the news about corrupt priests, irrational church leaders,
and blatant discrimination throughout the church, why does ANYONE
continue to go to Catholic churches?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
27 May 2004 08:01:08 AM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<c93lp3$cju$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church?
With all the news about corrupt priests, irrational church leaders,
and blatant discrimination throughout the church, why does ANYONE
continue to go to Catholic churches?
If Kerry believes in the Catholic doctrines of faith, nothing and no
one can make him not Catholic.
Moral Theology is not about what people believe in with respect to God
but what people do with their lives.
Corrupt priests, stupid bishops and popes are not the Catholic faith.
I am Catholic and believe in the Apostolic Creed, the doctrines of
faith (Trinity, Virginal Conception...etc). At the same time, I
reject the hierarchy's teaching on contraception, pre-martial sex,
divorce, homosexual marriage...etc and regarding abortion, I do not
force my opinion on others but leave them to make their own choices.
No one can make me not Catholic in faith, and a give a rats ***** what
the popes, bishops and priests teach about anybody's personal
relations with others.
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| User: "MaryC" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
30 May 2004 09:50:19 PM |
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Xomicron wrote
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who reject
the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy and
will keep believing his lies.
I suppose he thinks that like the 76 to 88 percent of Catholics who
think contraception and Catholicism are compatible, he thinks that the
Catholics who make up the body of the Church are more important than
the hierarchy. You can disagree with the belief, but there it is.
Believe me, most Catholics are quite aware that the Vatican is miles
away from American Catholics on contraception, abortion, the
ordination of women and the rule decreeing celibate priests. They
understand Kerry's dilemma and are sympathetic. Don't ask me why the
whole bunch don't go away and leave the ancient men of the Church to
dither over when Latin masses should be permitted.
http://www.cath4choice.org/contraception/thirty.htm
http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article50.htm
MaryC
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| User: "George Tirebiter" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
01 Jun 2004 09:32:31 AM |
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In article <c9gfoq$elk$8@emac1.ocs.lsu.edu>, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl>
wrote:
combs-bachmann@worldnet.att.net (MaryC) wrote in
news:ddb0303a.0405301850.38a32015@posting.google.com:
Xomicron wrote:
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy
and will keep believing his lies.
I suppose he thinks that like the 76 to 88 percent of Catholics who
think contraception and Catholicism are compatible, he thinks that the
Catholics who make up the body of the Church are more important than
the hierarchy. You can disagree with the belief, but there it is.
Believe me, most Catholics are quite aware that the Vatican is miles
away from American Catholics on contraception, abortion,
Abortion and contraception are not the same thing.
They are not the same thing. But what all you republicans masquerading as
christians ignore, is the fact that the vast majority of communicants are
actually committing the mortal sin of using contraception. Being pro-choice
is not itself a sin.
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
31 May 2004 12:00:25 AM |
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MaryC wrote:
Xomicron wrote
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who reject
the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy and
will keep believing his lies.
I suppose he thinks that like the 76 to 88 percent of Catholics who
think contraception and Catholicism are compatible, he thinks that the
Catholics who make up the body of the Church are more important than
the hierarchy. You can disagree with the belief, but there it is.
Believe me, most Catholics are quite aware that the Vatican is miles
away from American Catholics on contraception, abortion, the
ordination of women and the rule decreeing celibate priests. They
understand Kerry's dilemma and are sympathetic. Don't ask me why the
whole bunch don't go away and leave the ancient men of the Church to
dither over when Latin masses should be permitted.
http://www.cath4choice.org/contraception/thirty.htm
http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article50.htm
Well, the whole point is, like Martin Luther, they want to reform the
church from the inside. If it were just a small minority, then sure,
they should move, but the vast majority want to remain Catholics but
find that the stagnation at the top is causing many to leave. I could
name so many people who have walked away from the Catholic church, it
isn't funny. If it were for the large concerntration of Catholic
followers in the third world, pumping out 6-10 children at a time, the
Catholic church would be shrinking.
Matty
--
My blog: http://kaiwai.blogspot.com/
"Was there any truth in the rumour that you were
dead?" - Norman; The Great Australian Bleeder
"You don't have to live next to me, Just give me my
equality" - Nina Simone (Mississippi *****)
"Science without religion is lame, religion without
science is blind." - Albert Einstein
"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die
for your country. You just need to
shoot straight." - Barry Goldwater, (Ret. AF general)
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| User: "Laura Gonzalez" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
31 May 2004 11:14:16 PM |
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On Mon, 31 May 2004 23:40:10 +0000 (UTC), Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl>
wrote:
combs-bachmann@worldnet.att.net (MaryC) wrote in
news:ddb0303a.0405301850.38a32015@posting.google.com:
Xomicron wrote:
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy
and will keep believing his lies.
I suppose he thinks that like the 76 to 88 percent of Catholics who
think contraception and Catholicism are compatible, he thinks that the
Catholics who make up the body of the Church are more important than
the hierarchy. You can disagree with the belief, but there it is.
Believe me, most Catholics are quite aware that the Vatican is miles
away from American Catholics on contraception, abortion,
Abortion and contraception are not the same thing.
In the eyes of the Church, they are both intrinsically evil and not
allowed under any circumstances.
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| User: "St. Jackanapes" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
31 May 2004 11:58:44 PM |
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In alt.recovery.catholicism, Laura Gonzalez said...
On Mon, 31 May 2004 23:40:10 +0000 (UTC), Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl>
wrote:
combs-bachmann@worldnet.att.net (MaryC) wrote in
news:ddb0303a.0405301850.38a32015@posting.google.com:
Xomicron wrote:
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy
and will keep believing his lies.
I suppose he thinks that like the 76 to 88 percent of Catholics who
think contraception and Catholicism are compatible, he thinks that the
Catholics who make up the body of the Church are more important than
the hierarchy. You can disagree with the belief, but there it is.
Believe me, most Catholics are quite aware that the Vatican is miles
away from American Catholics on contraception, abortion,
Abortion and contraception are not the same thing.
In the eyes of the Church, they are both intrinsically evil and not
allowed under any circumstances.
I'm Catholic and it never stopped me from knocking up girls and
demanding abortions.
--
St. Jackanapes
http://wwww.jackanapes.ws
-----------------------------
CHRISTIANITY DEBATE FORUM:
http://afjc.clickhalah.com/forum
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
01 Jun 2004 04:33:46 PM |
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Laura Gonzalez <me@home.net> wrote in message news:<3i0ob0p3ugrgofgarjlpfe59roaemu5fpl@4ax.com>...
On Mon, 31 May 2004 23:40:10 +0000 (UTC), Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl>
wrote:
combs-bachmann@worldnet.att.net (MaryC) wrote in
news:ddb0303a.0405301850.38a32015@posting.google.com:
Xomicron wrote:
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy
and will keep believing his lies.
I suppose he thinks that like the 76 to 88 percent of Catholics who
think contraception and Catholicism are compatible, he thinks that the
Catholics who make up the body of the Church are more important than
the hierarchy. You can disagree with the belief, but there it is.
Believe me, most Catholics are quite aware that the Vatican is miles
away from American Catholics on contraception, abortion,
Abortion and contraception are not the same thing.
In the eyes of the Church, they are both intrinsically evil and not
allowed under any circumstances.
They are fools so to think. Contraception avoids automatic abortion
(natural abortion) which frequently happens after sex since the
splitting egg may not attach itself and gets flushed out. Hence, if
barrier contraceptives are used there would not be a chance for the
sperm to fertilize any egg and natural automatic abortion could NOT
happen.
Simply put, contraceptives protect against potential natural abortion.
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| User: "Alan" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
27 May 2004 01:30:04 PM |
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Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message news:<1V7tc.37735$bS1.19462@okepread02>...
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who reject
the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy and
will keep believing his lies.
What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
the Church.
You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
You see asswipe, I call you that with all due respect of course, a
person is not allowed to govern with the purpose of a religious
agenda. Only a Constitutional agenda is supposed to take place.
That is something the religious right tends to forget.
Get your god out of my face ***** hole!
Alan C.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
27 May 2004 01:44:16 PM |
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(Alan) wrote in
news:12664237.0405271030.6f77277@posting.google.com:
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:<1V7tc.37735$bS1.19462@okepread02>...
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy
and will keep believing his lies.
What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
the Church.
You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
What seperation of church and state?
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| User: "Alan" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
28 May 2004 12:56:29 PM |
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Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message news:<4Gqtc.46719$kc2.707702@nnrp1.uunet.ca>...
mlmr11@yahoo.com (Alan) wrote in
news:12664237.0405271030.6f77277@posting.google.com:
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:<1V7tc.37735$bS1.19462@okepread02>...
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy
and will keep believing his lies.
What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
the Church.
You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
What seperation of church and state?
Either you are a total imbicile or you are a good actor.
If in fact the former is true then I can not help you.
If the second is true then you do not need response.
However, neither relieve you of the responisbility to carry the
"Redneck ***** Stain" title.
For that is what you are.
And the truth shall set you free
A.C.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
29 May 2004 12:05:11 PM |
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(Alan) wrote in
news:12664237.0405280956.3e3f858@posting.google.com:
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:<4Gqtc.46719$kc2.707702@nnrp1.uunet.ca>...
(Alan) wrote in
news:12664237.0405271030.6f77277@posting.google.com:
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:<1V7tc.37735$bS1.19462@okepread02>...
Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his
hypocrisy and will keep believing his lies.
What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
the Church.
You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
What seperation of church and state?
Either you are a total imbicile or you are a good actor.
If in fact the former is true then I can not help you.
If the second is true then you do not need response.
In other words, you're full of ***** and know that there is no seperation of
church and state in the United States.
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| User: "Eric Chomko" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
09 Jun 2004 11:39:41 AM |
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Xomicron (xomicron@wp.pl) wrote:
: (Alan) wrote in
: news:12664237.0405271030.6f77277@posting.google.com:
: > Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
: > news:<1V7tc.37735$bS1.19462@okepread02>...
: >
: >> Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
: >> sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
: >> continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
: >> reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
: >>
: >> Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his hypocrisy
: >> and will keep believing his lies.
: >
: > What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
: > I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
: > the Church.
: > You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
: > Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
: What seperation of church and state?
It is in the Constitution. Read Article VI, "no religious test shall ever
be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the
United States."
Also, Amendment I, "no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
If you want an integration of church and state, then I suggest you leave
the United States, switch to Islam and move to Saudi Arabia where they see
things politically as you do.
Eric
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| User: "Xomicron" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
09 Jun 2004 11:50:56 AM |
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(Eric Chomko) wrote in
news:ca7egd$dt0$1@news.ums.edu:
Xomicron (xomicron@wp.pl) wrote:
: (Alan) wrote in
: news:12664237.0405271030.6f77277@posting.google.com:
: > Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
: > news:<1V7tc.37735$bS1.19462@okepread02>...
: >
: >> Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
: >> sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
: >> continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
: >> reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
: >>
: >> Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his
: >> hypocrisy and will keep believing his lies.
: >
: > What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
: > I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
: > the Church.
: > You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
: > Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
: What seperation of church and state?
It is in the Constitution.
No it isn't.
Read Article VI, "no religious test shall ever be required as a
qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
What does this have to do with seperation of church and state?
Also, Amendment I, "no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
What does this have to do with seperation of church and state?
If you want an integration of church and state, then I suggest you leave
the United States, switch to Islam and move to Saudi Arabia where they
see things politically as you do.
Read up on the early history of the United States.
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| User: "Eric Chomko" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
15 Jun 2004 11:04:45 AM |
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Xomicron (xomicron@wp.pl) wrote:
: (Eric Chomko) wrote in
: news:ca7egd$dt0$1@news.ums.edu:
: > Xomicron (xomicron@wp.pl) wrote:
: >: (Alan) wrote in
: >: news:12664237.0405271030.6f77277@posting.google.com:
: >
: >: > Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote in message
: >: > news:<1V7tc.37735$bS1.19462@okepread02>...
: >: >
: >: >> Question: with all of the news about the Catholic Church trying to
: >: >> sanction Kerry and deny him communion etc., why does Kerry insist on
: >: >> continuing to go to Catholic church? What is it with Catholics who
: >: >> reject the church's teachings but still insist on belonging to it?
: >: >>
: >: >> Must be that he thinks that people won't see through all his
: >: >> hypocrisy and will keep believing his lies.
: >: >
: >: > What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
: >: > I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
: >: > the Church.
: >: > You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
: >: > Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
: >
: >: What seperation of church and state?
: >
: > It is in the Constitution.
: No it isn't.
: > Read Article VI, "no religious test shall ever be required as a
: > qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
: What does this have to do with seperation of church and state?
It states that you don't have to be a particular religion or to even be
religious to serve in the government. THAT is a seperation of church and
state.
:
: > Also, Amendment I, "no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
: > prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
: What does this have to do with seperation of church and state?
Again, it states that the government cannot interfere with the practicing
of religion, not can the government be involved in the advancement of any
particular religion.
: > If you want an integration of church and state, then I suggest you leave
: > the United States, switch to Islam and move to Saudi Arabia where they
: > see things politically as you do.
: Read up on the early history of the United States.
I have. Please tell me where church and state are intertwined,
necessarily.
Eric
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| User: "ALOHA" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
17 Jun 2004 12:34:45 PM |
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"Eric Chomko" <echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote in message
news:can6mt$2eat$2@news.ums.edu...
:
: > Also, Amendment I, "no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
: > prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
: What does this have to do with seperation of church and state?
Again, it states that the government cannot interfere with the practicing
of religion, not can the government be involved in the advancement of any
particular religion.
Subsequent Supreme Court decisions have established that the Government has
no role in trying to impose religious practice on anyone. Nor should they
advance one religion at the expense of the others.
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| User: "Eric Chomko" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
17 Jun 2004 03:39:27 PM |
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ALOHA (ALOHA@thevatican.org) wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" <echomko_at_@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote in message
: news:can6mt$2eat$2@news.ums.edu...
: >
: > :
: > : > Also, Amendment I, "no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
: > : > prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
: >
: > : What does this have to do with seperation of church and state?
: >
: > Again, it states that the government cannot interfere with the practicing
: > of religion, not can the government be involved in the advancement of any
: > particular religion.
: >
: Subsequent Supreme Court decisions have established that the Government has
: no role in trying to impose religious practice on anyone. Nor should they
: advance one religion at the expense of the others.
Right, the SC was simply upholding the Constitution in those cases.
Eric
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| User: "Cunneen" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
17 Jun 2004 07:37:11 PM |
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: >: > What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
: >: > I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
: >: > the Church.
: >: > You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
: >: > Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
Catholic doctrine covers both faith and morals. It is the teaching of the
Catholic church that abortion is murder and is therefore grossly immoral. It
is not just wrong for Catholics, it is wrong, period. Murder is murder.
A Catholic who publicly denies Catholic moral teaching is subject to public
discipline. It doesn't make a difference if he is a politician or not; hiding
behind "separation" is subterfuge. This has nothing to do with government;
this has to do with religious membership and what it means.
He SAYS he is a Catholic and he DENIES what the Church teaches. That's
hypocrisy.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
19 Jun 2004 12:20:34 AM |
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Cunneen <cunneen@aol.com> wrote:
: >: > What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
: >: > I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
: >: > the Church.
: >: > You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
: >: > Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
Catholic doctrine covers both faith and morals. It is the teaching of the
Catholic church that abortion is murder and is therefore grossly immoral.
That's the same church that recently rewarded the bishop who tried to
cover up and protect child molesting priests.
It
is not just wrong for Catholics, it is wrong, period. Murder is murder.
The assumption you make which is almost cerrtainly wrong is that the
church is correct.
A Catholic who publicly denies Catholic moral teaching is subject to public
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
19 Jun 2004 07:08:15 AM |
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(Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cb0if1$p61$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Cunneen <cunneen@aol.com> wrote:
: >: > What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
: >: > I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
: >: > the Church.
: >: > You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
: >: > Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
Catholic doctrine covers both faith and morals. It is the teaching of the
Catholic church that abortion is murder and is therefore grossly immoral.
That's the same church that recently rewarded the bishop who tried to
cover up and protect child molesting priests.
Also, while officially in the Catholic church there is no divorce, the
morally-choosy-on-what-to-pick-on bishops and Cardinal RATzinger,
simply ignore that fact that in civil marriage there is divorce. Yet,
divorce, according to the NT, automatically causes adultery which
breaks the Ten Commandments if re-marriage happens.
According to the skewed moral logic of the bishops, all politicians
who do not vote to BAN DIVORCE, should be barred from communion.
It
is not just wrong for Catholics, it is wrong, period. Murder is murder.
The assumption you make which is almost cerrtainly wrong is that the
church is correct.
A Catholic who publicly denies Catholic moral teaching is subject to public
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
The Seat of St. Peter has been vacant for many years and what used to
be Pope John Paul II, is Karol Wojtyla, a senile man who abandoned a
huge group of his flock.
There is no Pope today just a shadow of a fool.
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
19 Jun 2004 06:27:27 PM |
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Shan wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cb0if1$p61$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
The Seat of St. Peter has been vacant for many years and what used to
be Pope John Paul II, is Karol Wojtyla, a senile man who abandoned a
huge group of his flock.
There is no Pope today just a shadow of a fool.
Yeap, but unfortunately the fool has nominated more ultra-conservative
cardinals, so don't expect any changes in the future hence the another
reason I jumped ship long along.
Matty
--
My blog: http://kaiwai.blogspot.com/
Using a mouse in unix? That's heresy.
"Was there any truth in the rumour that you were
dead?" - Norman; The Great Australian Bleeder
"You don't have to live next to me, Just give me my
equality" - Nina Simone (Mississippi *****)
"Science without religion is lame, religion without
science is blind." - Albert Einstein
"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die
for your country. You just need to
shoot straight." - Barry Goldwater, (Ret. AF general)
.
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
20 Jun 2004 08:08:42 AM |
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Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jk0f2F124ceaU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cb0if1$p61$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
The Seat of St. Peter has been vacant for many years and what used to
be Pope John Paul II, is Karol Wojtyla, a senile man who abandoned a
huge group of his flock.
There is no Pope today just a shadow of a fool.
Yeap, but unfortunately the fool has nominated more ultra-conservative
cardinals, so don't expect any changes in the future hence the another
reason I jumped ship long along.
I know but who cares what the new fool or all the other fools say. We
continue to follow our consciences and dismiss their "teaching
authority" on moral theology while we continue to believe in the
doctrines of the faith.
Declarations of bishops has become a laughing matter that very few
idioc Catholics follow any way.
.
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
20 Jun 2004 09:11:58 AM |
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Shan wrote:
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jk0f2F124ceaU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cb0if1$p61$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
The Seat of St. Peter has been vacant for many years and what used to
be Pope John Paul II, is Karol Wojtyla, a senile man who abandoned a
huge group of his flock.
There is no Pope today just a shadow of a fool.
Yeap, but unfortunately the fool has nominated more ultra-conservative
cardinals, so don't expect any changes in the future hence the another
reason I jumped ship long along.
I know but who cares what the new fool or all the other fools say. We
continue to follow our consciences and dismiss their "teaching
authority" on moral theology while we continue to believe in the
doctrines of the faith.
Declarations of bishops has become a laughing matter that very few
idioc Catholics follow any way.
True, its like the like of speaking to go through priests, it seems
every catholic I know (like what the Protestants believe) talk directly
to god. There are a whole heap of laws and crap that make non-sense and
meanly justify employing a person at the papal library to check the
books once and a while.
Matty
--
My blog: http://kaiwai.blogspot.com/
Using a mouse in unix? That's heresy.
"Was there any truth in the rumour that you were
dead?" - Norman; The Great Australian Bleeder
"You don't have to live next to me, Just give me my
equality" - Nina Simone (Mississippi *****)
"Science without religion is lame, religion without
science is blind." - Albert Einstein
"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die
for your country. You just need to
shoot straight." - Barry Goldwater, (Ret. AF general)
.
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| User: "Xomicron" |
|
| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
20 Jun 2004 07:10:29 PM |
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Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jlk9hF11a6vgU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jk0f2F124ceaU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cb0if1$p61$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
The Seat of St. Peter has been vacant for many years and what used to
be Pope John Paul II, is Karol Wojtyla, a senile man who abandoned a
huge group of his flock.
There is no Pope today just a shadow of a fool.
Yeap, but unfortunately the fool has nominated more ultra-conservative
cardinals, so don't expect any changes in the future hence the another
reason I jumped ship long along.
I know but who cares what the new fool or all the other fools say. We
continue to follow our consciences and dismiss their "teaching
authority" on moral theology while we continue to believe in the
doctrines of the faith.
Declarations of bishops has become a laughing matter that very few
idioc Catholics follow any way.
True, its like the like of speaking to go through priests, it seems
every catholic I know (like what the Protestants believe) talk directly
to god. There are a whole heap of laws and crap that make non-sense and
meanly justify employing a person at the papal library to check the
books once and a while.
Many Catholic doctrines are not biblically based.
.
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| User: "Shan" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
22 Jun 2004 08:34:40 AM |
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(Xomicron) wrote in message news:<5b9de012.0406201610.79d54963@posting.google.com>...
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jlk9hF11a6vgU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jk0f2F124ceaU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cb0if1$p61$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
The Seat of St. Peter has been vacant for many years and what used to
be Pope John Paul II, is Karol Wojtyla, a senile man who abandoned a
huge group of his flock.
There is no Pope today just a shadow of a fool.
Yeap, but unfortunately the fool has nominated more ultra-conservative
cardinals, so don't expect any changes in the future hence the another
reason I jumped ship long along.
I know but who cares what the new fool or all the other fools say. We
continue to follow our consciences and dismiss their "teaching
authority" on moral theology while we continue to believe in the
doctrines of the faith.
Declarations of bishops has become a laughing matter that very few
idioc Catholics follow any way.
True, its like the like of speaking to go through priests, it seems
every catholic I know (like what the Protestants believe) talk directly
to god. There are a whole heap of laws and crap that make non-sense and
meanly justify employing a person at the papal library to check the
books once and a while.
Many Catholic doctrines are not biblically based.
I am not sure I agree with you regarding doctrines of faith. On that
matter, Protestants are in lah-lah land when it comes to doctrine.
However, doctrines on Moral Theology of both Protestants and Catholics
should be taken with a grain of salt because they have nothing to do
with faith between a person and God.
Further, many moral theology teachings even when based on the Bible
are not cut in stone and frequently passé vs. modern science and
medicine.
Simply put, your statement is not useful.
.
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| User: "bernard connor" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
21 Jun 2004 03:42:27 AM |
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(Xomicron) wrote in message news:<5b9de012.0406201610.79d54963@posting.google.com>...
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jlk9hF11a6vgU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jk0f2F124ceaU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cb0if1$p61$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
The Seat of St. Peter has been vacant for many years and what used to
be Pope John Paul II, is Karol Wojtyla, a senile man who abandoned a
huge group of his flock.
There is no Pope today just a shadow of a fool.
Yeap, but unfortunately the fool has nominated more ultra-conservative
cardinals, so don't expect any changes in the future hence the another
reason I jumped ship long along.
I know but who cares what the new fool or all the other fools say. We
continue to follow our consciences and dismiss their "teaching
authority" on moral theology while we continue to believe in the
doctrines of the faith.
Declarations of bishops has become a laughing matter that very few
idioc Catholics follow any way.
True, its like the like of speaking to go through priests, it seems
every catholic I know (like what the Protestants believe) talk directly
to god. There are a whole heap of laws and crap that make non-sense and
meanly justify employing a person at the papal library to check the
books once and a while.
Many Catholic doctrines are not biblically based.
The RC Hierarchy are indulging in their usual "pro-life" hypocrisy.
Christianity was always anti-life. In Matthew 19,12, Jesus is alleged
to have said: For there are eunuchs who were born thus ---and there
are eunuch who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven
sake.
There was a strong "Eunuchs for Christ" movement in the early Church.
Origen, one of the "Fathers of the Church" castrated himself or had it
done to him.
For ca 500 years, the Musical Director of the Papal choirs had choir
boys castrated, becaue the alternative (horror) was to let women sing
in church. The secular Italian State abolished this barbaric custom.
Bernard
.
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| User: "Matty" |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
21 Jun 2004 01:09:33 AM |
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Xomicron wrote:
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jlk9hF11a6vgU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
Matty <kaiwainz@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<2jk0f2F124ceaU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Shan wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in message news:<cb0if1$p61$1@bolt.sonic.net>...
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
The Seat of St. Peter has been vacant for many years and what used to
be Pope John Paul II, is Karol Wojtyla, a senile man who abandoned a
huge group of his flock.
There is no Pope today just a shadow of a fool.
Yeap, but unfortunately the fool has nominated more ultra-conservative
cardinals, so don't expect any changes in the future hence the another
reason I jumped ship long along.
I know but who cares what the new fool or all the other fools say. We
continue to follow our consciences and dismiss their "teaching
authority" on moral theology while we continue to believe in the
doctrines of the faith.
Declarations of bishops has become a laughing matter that very few
idioc Catholics follow any way.
True, its like the like of speaking to go through priests, it seems
every catholic I know (like what the Protestants believe) talk directly
to god. There are a whole heap of laws and crap that make non-sense and
meanly justify employing a person at the papal library to check the
books once and a while.
Many Catholic doctrines are not biblically based.
True, much of the rules have been rectum plunked by so-called academics
who would find it a strungle to get two brain cells to rub together. If
people concerntrated on respecting on and other, the need for 100s of
laws, statutes and other crap would be a thing of the past.
Matty
--
My blog: http://kaiwai.blogspot.com/
Using a mouse in unix? That's heresy.
"Was there any truth in the rumour that you were
dead?" - Norman; The Great Australian Bleeder
"You don't have to live next to me, Just give me my
equality" - Nina Simone (Mississippi *****)
"Science without religion is lame, religion without
science is blind." - Albert Einstein
"You don't need to be 'straight' to fight and die
for your country. You just need to
shoot straight." - Barry Goldwater, (Ret. AF general)
.
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| User: "J.T." |
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| Title: Re: Why doesn't Kerry leave the Catholic church? |
19 Jun 2004 09:49:59 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Cunneen <cunneen@aol.com> wrote:
: >: > What part of the Catholic "Doctorine" does Kerry claim to be against?
: >: > I haven't read or heard anything that came from Kerrys lips against
: >: > the Church.
: >: > You must be referencing his stance on abortion.
: >: > Ah yes, it is called seperation of church and state.
Catholic doctrine covers both faith and morals. It is the teaching of the
Catholic church that abortion is murder and is therefore grossly immoral.
That's the same church that recently rewarded the bishop who tried to
cover up and protect child molesting priests.
He was not rewarded. That "post" he was given as "arch-priest" is an
empty position. It does not carry a salary, he doesn't get a house, he
does not wield any administrative power. He does however, have to try
and round up some donations for the upkeep of that cathedral. It also
means he won't vanish from the face of the earth, just in case a warrant
for his arrest finally makes an appearance.
It
is not just wrong for Catholics, it is wrong, period. Murder is murder.
The assumption you make which is almost cerrtainly wrong is that the
church is correct.
Well as far as Catholics are concerned, yes, in such cases of
magisterial teaching, the Church must be obeyed. The point of this
thread is that Kerry, since he claims to be a Catholic, should obey
mageisterial teaching, or stop his claims of being a Catholic.
A Catholic who publicly denies Catholic moral teaching is subject to public
Why should anyone care what the Pope says?
*Catholics* (like Kerry) should care what the Pope says because the Pope
is, to us, the vicar of Christ on earth, and for us, Christ is Lord and
King (and God).
But it's not just the Pope who speaks. Even the writings of the Church
Fathers (recognized post-Apostolic Church leaders up to the 4th century
or so) have spoken out against abortion, e.g., The Didache (50 AD).
.
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