Science > Abortion > Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday!
| Topic: |
Science > Abortion |
| User: |
"Craig Chilton" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 08:48:56 PM |
| Object: |
Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
-- Craig Chilton
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
17 Feb 2004 01:35:10 AM |
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(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<40317df9.190548@netnews.mchsi.com>...
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
-- Craig Chilton
He is definitely going to be a strong contender for the Lamda (sp?)
award. And with good reason.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 12:39:13 AM |
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(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<40317df9.190548@netnews.mchsi.com>...
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
-- Craig Chilton
Yet when a judge stood up for what he believed in and believed he was
supporting the constitution and the constitution in Alabama, he was
persecuted.
The double standards continues
the judge stood for freedom of speech. He took a oath, that included
a oath to God, and he supported that oath with the display of the 10
commandments. And yet he was ridiculed.
But we got a mayor who is disobeying the law, passing out papers that
are WORTHLESS, while homosexuals pay $150.00 for this worthless piece
of paper...and he is a hero?
S.F. is making THOUSANDS and giving people worthless pieces of paper,
and a mayor disregarding due process of the law...and he is a hero?
There is something terribly wrong, when we have a nation that turns
away from God, spits at the 10 commandments and tosses out freedom of
speech...and we honor a mayor who is making THOUSANDS giving out
worthless pieces of paper, misleading homosexuals, and disobeying the
law.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 01:12:37 AM |
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On 22 Feb 2004 22:39:13 -0800,
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
Yet when a judge stood up for what he believed in and
believed he was supporting the constitution and the consti-
tution in Alabama, he was persecuted.
The double standard continues.
Not in the least! Same-sex marriage is totally harmless. It
would have NO effect upon the marriages of any heterosexual
couples.
However, Judge Moore DESERVED condemnation for his
blatant attempt to make it appear that the state ENDORSED a
particular religion. To be fair to him, he was asked if he would
allow a monument to the Koran to be placed alongside the 10
Commandments monument in the same building, and he said he
would NOT. Thus flying in the face of the principle of separation
of church and state that has protected us from tyrannical state
religions for hundreds of years. He tried to set a dangerous
precedent, and was very PROPERLY fired for doing so.
The judge stood for freedom of speech.
See above. If that were true, he'd have allowed the Koran
monument. He's a mindless bigot.
He took a oath, that included a oath to God, and he supported
that oath with the display of the 10 commandments.
See above. His act was idiotic, and he should have
known better.
And yet he was ridiculed.
He deserved every bit of that that he received. For the
reasons I just stated.
But we got a mayor who is disobeying the law, passing out
papers that are WORTHLESS, while homosexuals pay $150.00
for this worthless piece of paper...and he is a hero?
Yes, because the couples KNOW that such a risk exists, but
they are all united in this effort to push for EQUALITY. **Just** as
the blacks and their allies from other races did, 40 years ago. Then,
the demonstrations were in Selma, D.C., and elsewhere. Today,
it's Massachusetts and San Francisco. And the goals are equally
laudable and important.
S.F. is making THOUSANDS and giving people worthless
pieces of paper, ...
Ultimately, those certificates may turn out to be totally valid.
If not, they'll each fetch a small fortune on E-Bay.
...and a mayor disregarding due process of the law... and
he is a hero?
Just as much as Rosa Parks was. They both put themselves
at risk to further human rights and equality.
There is something terribly wrong, when we have a nation
that turns away from God,...
No such thing has happened. But if second-class citizenship is
perpetuated against homosexuals, that will be a slap in the face to
Jesus, who commanded us to show love and compassion to our
neighbors. One doesn't do that by imposing misery upon people.
...spits at the 10 commandments...
No such thing happened. That monument will be perfectly
welcome and leagal on ANY *private* land or property.
...and tosses out freedom of speech...
The way Moore did when he said he would NOT allow the
Koran monument?
...and we honor a mayor who is making THOUSANDS giving
out worthless pieces of paper,...
Not so, as I just explained.
...misleading homosexuals,...
Wrong. They know the circumstances EXACTLY. They're
no dummies.
...and disobeying the law.
That may not be the case at all. California's constitution
guarantees EQUALITY. Very likely, that higher law will render
Prop. 22 null and void, when tested in court.
And I most certainly hope that that is EXACTLY what
will happen.
-- Craig Chilton
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| User: "Osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 08:51:01 AM |
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"Craig Chilton" <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:4041a155.30190178@netnews.mchsi.com...
On 22 Feb 2004 22:39:13 -0800,
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton <xanadu222@mchsi.com> wrote:
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
Yet when a judge stood up for what he believed in and
believed he was supporting the constitution and the consti-
tution in Alabama, he was persecuted.
The double standard continues.
Not in the least! Same-sex marriage is totally harmless. It
would have NO effect upon the marriages of any heterosexual
couples.
However, Judge Moore DESERVED condemnation for his
blatant attempt to make it appear that the state ENDORSED a
particular religion.
No, he upheld the constitution and his oath, which included God.
To be fair to him, he was asked if he would
allow a monument to the Koran to be placed alongside the 10
Commandments monument in the same building, and he said he
would NOT. Thus flying in the face of the principle of separation
of church and state that has protected us from tyrannical state
religions for hundreds of years. He tried to set a dangerous
precedent, and was very PROPERLY fired for doing so.
Double standards.
Support a sin
Attack God
That is all this is. And you said you are a Christian?
The judge stood for freedom of speech.
See above. If that were true, he'd have allowed the Koran
monument. He's a mindless bigot.
He took a oath, that included a oath to God, and he supported
that oath with the display of the 10 commandments.
See above. His act was idiotic, and he should have
known better.
He did the right thing.
And yet he was ridiculed.
He deserved every bit of that that he received. For the
reasons I just stated.
But we got a mayor who is disobeying the law, passing out
papers that are WORTHLESS, while homosexuals pay $150.00
for this worthless piece of paper...and he is a hero?
Yes, because the couples KNOW that such a risk exists, but
they are all united in this effort to push for EQUALITY. **Just** as
the blacks and their allies from other races did, 40 years ago. Then,
the demonstrations were in Selma, D.C., and elsewhere. Today,
it's Massachusetts and San Francisco. And the goals are equally
laudable and important.
S.F. is making THOUSANDS and giving people worthless
pieces of paper, ...
Ultimately, those certificates may turn out to be totally valid.
If not, they'll each fetch a small fortune on E-Bay.
...and a mayor disregarding due process of the law... and
he is a hero?
Just as much as Rosa Parks was. They both put themselves
at risk to further human rights and equality.
There is something terribly wrong, when we have a nation
that turns away from God,...
No such thing has happened.
Yes, it is happening. Homosexuality is clearly wrong and a sin.
And for anyone to even accept the idea of allowing homosexuals to be married
is committing a sin by accepting homosexuality.
It is a sin Craig, and you claimed you are a Christian. You should know
better.
This are no gray areas, it is wrong, it is a sin, and if you accept it you
are turning away from God.
But if second-class citizenship is
perpetuated against homosexuals, that will be a slap in the face to
Jesus, who commanded us to show love and compassion to our
neighbors. One doesn't do that by imposing misery upon people.
Yes, you show love and compassion, but that doesn't mean you have to accept
the sinful act.
Please Craig, don't quote Jesus Christ when you are turning away from the
word of God.
It is hypocrisy and you are just as guilty as the sinner themselves for even
accepting the idea of
homosexuals getting married.
.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 09:50:31 AM |
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:51:01 -0500,
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
Yet when a judge stood up for what he believed in and
believed he was supporting the constitution and the consti-
tution in Alabama, he was persecuted.
The double standard continues.
Not in the least! Same-sex marriage is totally harmless. It
would have NO effect upon the marriages of any heterosexual
couples.
However, Judge Moore DESERVED condemnation for his
blatant attempt to make it appear that the state ENDORSED a
particular religion.
No, he upheld the constitution and his oath, which included God.
I've seen no evidence that God told him to break the supreme law
of the land.
To be fair to him, he was asked if he would allow a
monument to the Koran to be placed alongside the 10
Commandments monument in the same building, and he said he
would NOT. Thus flying in the face of the principle of separation
of church and state that has protected us from tyrannical state
religions for hundreds of years. He tried to set a dangerous
precedent, and was very PROPERLY fired for doing so.
Double standards.
Support a sin
Attack God
I'm supporting no sin. I'm defending our liberties. Very VITAL
liberties. And that includes NO attack on God.
That is all this is. And you said you are a Christian?
Yes. One the tens of millions of SENSIBLE ones.
The judge stood for freedom of speech.
See above. If that were true, he'd have allowed the Koran
monument. He's a mindless bigot.
He took a oath, that included a oath to God, and he supported
that oath with the display of the 10 commandments.
See above. His act was idiotic, and he should have
known better.
He did the right thing.
In your opinion. Not even REMOTELY in mine. He broke the
law and got fired for it. I agree with that. Because the law that HE
broke was a WORTHWHILE law.
And yet he was ridiculed.
He deserved every bit of that that he received. For the
reasons I just stated.
But we got a mayor who is disobeying the law, passing out
papers that are WORTHLESS, while homosexuals pay $150.00
for this worthless piece of paper...and he is a hero?
Yes, because the couples KNOW that such a risk exists, but
they are all united in this effort to push for EQUALITY. **Just** as
the blacks and their allies from other races did, 40 years ago. Then,
the demonstrations were in Selma, D.C., and elsewhere. Today,
it's Massachusetts and San Francisco. And the goals are equally
laudable and important.
S.F. is making THOUSANDS and giving people worthless
pieces of paper, ...
Ultimately, those certificates may turn out to be totally valid.
If not, they'll each fetch a small fortune on E-Bay.
...and a mayor disregarding due process of the law... and
he is a hero?
Just as much as Rosa Parks was. They both put themselves
at risk to further human rights and equality.
There is something terribly wrong, when we have a nation
that turns away from God,...
No such thing has happened.
Yes, it is happening. Homosexuality is clearly wrong and a sin.
Perhaps. The Bible indicates the likelihood of that. But that is
between THEM and God. There's no call for the anti-gay-rights
busybodyism that so many have been guilty of.
And for anyone to even accept the idea of allowing homosexuals
to be married is committing a sin by accepting homosexuality.
I "aacept" anything that any person does which does not
break a worthwhile law (bigotry-enforcing laws excluded), and
which does no overt harm to their neighbors. Remember that
the Bible is *meaningless* to at least 17% of our multi-cultural
population, so I'm not about to impose control-freakism on any
person. If there's a disagreement between what they do and God,
they can take it up with God. That is every person's right.
It is a sin Craig, and you claimed you are a Christian. You
should know better.
See above, and add this to it: The Bible neither appointed not
authorized ANY person to act as an ENFORCER of its precepts (either
real, or, as is the case with opposition to abortion, misperceived)
against society in general. The Bible appointed NO such Gestapo.
But the RRR cult -- BEING a misinformed and programmed cult --
obviously doesn't know any better.
This are no gray areas, it is wrong, it is a sin, and if you accept
it you are turning away from God.
Wrong. I'm leaving it in GOD's hands. Huge difference.
But if second-class citizenship is perpetuated against homo-
sexuals, that will be a slap in the face to Jesus, who commanded
us to show love and compassion to our neighbors. One doesn't
do that by imposing misery upon people.
Yes, you show love and compassion, but that doesn't mean
you have to accept the sinful act.
It is NOT my place to *interfere* with any person's personal and
private business. Supporting bigoted laws WOULD constitute such
interference.
Please Craig, don't quote Jesus Christ when you are turning
away from the word of God.
Sorry, Robert, but we disagree 100% on this. And Jesus CLEARLY
commanded us to show love and compassion to out neighbors. One
does the **oopposite** of that if he supports imposing misery upon
them, or discriminates against them (such as in housing, and the work-
place).
It is hypocrisy and you are just as guilty as the sinner themselves
for even accepting the idea of homosexuals getting married.
Many of the O.T. laws bit the dust in the later disposition. And
even though the N.T. does indicate problems with homosexuality,
there is no clear-cut indication that this would be the case with a
same-sex MARRIED couple. Also -- the 10 Commandments
obviously are the equivalent of the Bible's "constitution." The
way they're written, it's pretty much a REVERSE "Bill of Rights."
If same-sex marriage *were* a problem to an omniscient God who
clearly saw OUR day when He composed it, it seems logical that
He'd have made SOME mention of it in there. He didn't.
-- Craig Chilton
.
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| User: "Osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 03:02:14 PM |
|
|
"Craig Chilton" <> wrote in message
news:40441f9b.62520654@netnews.mchsi.com...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:51:01 -0500,
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
Yet when a judge stood up for what he believed in and
believed he was supporting the constitution and the consti-
tution in Alabama, he was persecuted.
The double standard continues.
Not in the least! Same-sex marriage is totally harmless. It
would have NO effect upon the marriages of any heterosexual
couples.
However, Judge Moore DESERVED condemnation for his
blatant attempt to make it appear that the state ENDORSED a
particular religion.
No, he upheld the constitution and his oath, which included God.
I've seen no evidence that God told him to break the supreme law
of the land.
He wasn't breaking any laws.
To be fair to him, he was asked if he would allow a
monument to the Koran to be placed alongside the 10
Commandments monument in the same building, and he said he
would NOT. Thus flying in the face of the principle of separation
of church and state that has protected us from tyrannical state
religions for hundreds of years. He tried to set a dangerous
precedent, and was very PROPERLY fired for doing so.
Double standards.
Support a sin
Attack God
I'm supporting no sin.
Homosexuality is a sin Craig.
I'm defending our liberties. Very VITAL
liberties. And that includes NO attack on God.
That is all this is. And you said you are a Christian?
Yes. One the tens of millions of SENSIBLE ones.
The judge stood for freedom of speech.
See above. If that were true, he'd have allowed the Koran
monument. He's a mindless bigot.
He took a oath, that included a oath to God, and he supported
that oath with the display of the 10 commandments.
See above. His act was idiotic, and he should have
known better.
He did the right thing.
In your opinion. Not even REMOTELY in mine. He broke the
law and got fired for it. I agree with that. Because the law that HE
broke was a WORTHWHILE law.
And yet he was ridiculed.
He deserved every bit of that that he received. For the
reasons I just stated.
But we got a mayor who is disobeying the law, passing out
papers that are WORTHLESS, while homosexuals pay $150.00
for this worthless piece of paper...and he is a hero?
Yes, because the couples KNOW that such a risk exists, but
they are all united in this effort to push for EQUALITY. **Just** as
the blacks and their allies from other races did, 40 years ago. Then,
the demonstrations were in Selma, D.C., and elsewhere. Today,
it's Massachusetts and San Francisco. And the goals are equally
laudable and important.
S.F. is making THOUSANDS and giving people worthless
pieces of paper, ...
Ultimately, those certificates may turn out to be totally valid.
If not, they'll each fetch a small fortune on E-Bay.
...and a mayor disregarding due process of the law... and
he is a hero?
Just as much as Rosa Parks was. They both put themselves
at risk to further human rights and equality.
There is something terribly wrong, when we have a nation
that turns away from God,...
No such thing has happened.
Yes, it is happening. Homosexuality is clearly wrong and a sin.
Perhaps. The Bible indicates the likelihood of that. But that is
between THEM and God. There's no call for the anti-gay-rights
busybodyism that so many have been guilty of.
No Craig, It is also up to us to honor Gods word. And by accepting
homosexuality, trying to justify it, is ignoring God's word
I don't hate the person, I hate the sin. And I will not support the sin by
allowing laws to support it.
And for anyone to even accept the idea of allowing homosexuals
to be married is committing a sin by accepting homosexuality.
I "aacept" anything that any person does which does not
break a worthwhile law (bigotry-enforcing laws excluded), and
which does no overt harm to their neighbors. Remember that
the Bible is *meaningless* to at least 17% of our multi-cultural
population, so I'm not about to impose control-freakism on any
person. If there's a disagreement between what they do and God,
they can take it up with God. That is every person's right.
It is a sin Craig, and you claimed you are a Christian. You
should know better.
See above, and add this to it: The Bible neither appointed not
authorized ANY person to act as an ENFORCER of its precepts (either
real, or, as is the case with opposition to abortion, misperceived)
against society in general. The Bible appointed NO such Gestapo.
But the RRR cult -- BEING a misinformed and programmed cult --
obviously doesn't know any better.
This are no gray areas, it is wrong, it is a sin, and if you accept
it you are turning away from God.
Wrong. I'm leaving it in GOD's hands. Huge difference.
No Craig, by allowing it to become legal in marriage, is to accept the act.
That is why I object to homosexual marriage.
But if second-class citizenship is perpetuated against homo-
sexuals, that will be a slap in the face to Jesus, who commanded
us to show love and compassion to our neighbors. One doesn't
do that by imposing misery upon people.
Yes, you show love and compassion, but that doesn't mean
you have to accept the sinful act.
It is NOT my place to *interfere* with any person's personal and
private business. Supporting bigoted laws WOULD constitute such
interference.
Please Craig, don't quote Jesus Christ when you are turning
away from the word of God.
Sorry, Robert, but we disagree 100% on this.
Yes we do Craig.
And Jesus CLEARLY
commanded us to show love and compassion to out neighbors.
And no one said you can't show love and compassion to our neighbors.
One
does the **oopposite** of that if he supports imposing misery upon
them, or discriminates against them (such as in housing, and the work-
place).
You, nor I, asked them to be homosexual. We should be trying to help them
learn Gods word. That is love and compassion.
It is hypocrisy and you are just as guilty as the sinner themselves
for even accepting the idea of homosexuals getting married.
Many of the O.T. laws bit the dust in the later disposition. And
even though the N.T. does indicate problems with homosexuality,
there is no clear-cut indication that this would be the case with a
same-sex MARRIED couple. Also -- the 10 Commandments
obviously are the equivalent of the Bible's "constitution." The
way they're written, it's pretty much a REVERSE "Bill of Rights."
If same-sex marriage *were* a problem to an omniscient God who
clearly saw OUR day when He composed it, it seems logical that
He'd have made SOME mention of it in there. He didn't.
-- Craig Chilton
.
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| User: "Contact" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome |
27 Feb 2004 10:09:44 AM |
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|
In article <40424eee.2826916@netnews.mchsi.com>
(Craig Chilton) wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:02:14 -0500,
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
Yet when a judge stood up for what he believed in and
believed he was supporting the constitution and the consti-
tution in Alabama, he was persecuted.
The double standard continues.
Not in the least! Same-sex marriage is totally harmless. It
would have NO effect upon the marriages of any heterosexual
couples.
However, Judge Moore DESERVED condemnation for his
blatant attempt to make it appear that the state ENDORSED a
particular religion.
No, he upheld the constitution and his oath, which included God.
I've seen no evidence that God told him to break the supreme law
of the land.
He wasn't breaking any laws.
Many Supreme Court decisions have shown that separation of
church and state is implicit in the First Amendment. Most lawyers
should be well aware of that. ALL *judges* should be. And the
CHIEF Justice of a state's supreme court is without excuse if he
doesn't know that. The 10 Commandments monument was a
violation of the principle of the separation of church and state on
PUBLIC property. Which means that it can be freely displayed
with NO problem on any of the land or buildings that comprise the
OTHER 95% of the space in America.
Ex-judge Moore had a DEFIANT and moronic agenda, and he
got very properly slapped down for his stupidity.
Civil disobediance DOES have its place, when worthwhile
individual liberties are being trampled. We saw that during the
Civil Rights Movement of the late '50s and early '60s. And we're
seeing it now in the Gay Rights Movement.
The DIFFERENCE is that an attempt to tear down the very
*** protective*** barrier that spares our liberties from attack by a
religius tyranny is stupid, pointless, hateful, and destructive.
Whereas efforts to ensure that no one be deprived of EQUALITY
over such TRIVIAL matters as race, ethnicity, or sexual orienta-
tion are examples of the very BEST motives for employing civil
disobedience.
To be fair to him, he was asked if he would allow a
monument to the Koran to be placed alongside the 10
Commandments monument in the same building, and he said he
would NOT. Thus flying in the face of the principle of separation
of church and state that has protected us from tyrannical state
religions for hundreds of years. He tried to set a dangerous
precedent, and was very PROPERLY fired for doing so.
Double standards.
Support a sin
Attack God
I'm supporting no sin.
Homosexuality is a sin Craig.
I'm defending our liberties. Very VITAL
liberties. And that includes NO attack on God.
That is all this is. And you said you are a Christian?
Yes. One the tens of millions of SENSIBLE ones.
The judge stood for freedom of speech.
See above. If that were true, he'd have allowed the Koran
monument. He's a mindless bigot.
He took a oath, that included a oath to God, and he supported
that oath with the display of the 10 commandments.
See above. His act was idiotic, and he should have
known better.
He did the right thing.
In your opinion. Not even REMOTELY in mine. He broke the
law and got fired for it. I agree with that. Because the law that HE
broke was a WORTHWHILE law.
And yet he was ridiculed.
He deserved every bit of that that he received. For the
reasons I just stated.
But we got a mayor who is disobeying the law, passing out
papers that are WORTHLESS, while homosexuals pay $150.00
for this worthless piece of paper...and he is a hero?
Yes, because the couples KNOW that such a risk exists, but
they are all united in this effort to push for EQUALITY. **Just** as
the blacks and their allies from other races did, 40 years ago. Then,
the demonstrations were in Selma, D.C., and elsewhere. Today,
it's Massachusetts and San Francisco. And the goals are equally
laudable and important.
S.F. is making THOUSANDS and giving people worthless
pieces of paper, ...
Ultimately, those certificates may turn out to be totally valid.
If not, they'll each fetch a small fortune on E-Bay.
...and a mayor disregarding due process of the law... and
he is a hero?
Just as much as Rosa Parks was. They both put themselves
at risk to further human rights and equality.
There is something terribly wrong, when we have a nation
that turns away from God,...
No such thing has happened.
Yes, it is happening. Homosexuality is clearly wrong and a sin.
Perhaps. The Bible indicates the likelihood of that. But that is
between THEM and God. There's no call for the anti-gay-rights
busybodyism that so many have been guilty of.
No Craig, It is also up to us to honor Gods word. And by accepting
homosexuality, trying to justify it, is ignoring God's word
I don't hate the person, I hate the sin. And I will not support the sin by
allowing laws to support it.
And for anyone to even accept the idea of allowing homosexuals
to be married is committing a sin by accepting homosexuality.
I "aacept" anything that any person does which does not
break a worthwhile law (bigotry-enforcing laws excluded), and
which does no overt harm to their neighbors. Remember that
the Bible is *meaningless* to at least 17% of our multi-cultural
population, so I'm not about to impose control-freakism on any
person. If there's a disagreement between what they do and God,
they can take it up with God. That is every person's right.
It is a sin Craig, and you claimed you are a Christian. You
should know better.
See above, and add this to it: The Bible neither appointed not
authorized ANY person to act as an ENFORCER of its precepts (either
real, or, as is the case with opposition to abortion, misperceived)
against society in general. The Bible appointed NO such Gestapo.
But the RRR cult -- BEING a misinformed and programmed cult --
obviously doesn't know any better.
This are no gray areas, it is wrong, it is a sin, and if you accept
it you are turning away from God.
Wrong. I'm leaving it in GOD's hands. Huge difference.
No Craig, by allowing it to become legal in marriage, is to accept the act.
That is why I object to homosexual marriage.
But if second-class citizenship is perpetuated against homo-
sexuals, that will be a slap in the face to Jesus, who commanded
us to show love and compassion to our neighbors. One doesn't
do that by imposing misery upon people.
Yes, you show love and compassion, but that doesn't mean
you have to accept the sinful act.
It is NOT my place to *interfere* with any person's personal and
private business. Supporting bigoted laws WOULD constitute such
interference.
Please Craig, don't quote Jesus Christ when you are turning
away from the word of God.
Sorry, Robert, but we disagree 100% on this.
Yes we do Craig.
And Jesus CLEARLY
commanded us to show love and compassion to out neighbors.
And no one said you can't show love and compassion to our neighbors.
One
does the **oopposite** of that if he supports imposing misery upon
them, or discriminates against them (such as in housing, and the work-
place).
You, nor I, asked them to be homosexual. We should be trying to help them
learn Gods word. That is love and compassion.
It is hypocrisy and you are just as guilty as the sinner themselves
for even accepting the idea of homosexuals getting married.
Many of the O.T. laws bit the dust in the later disposition. And
even though the N.T. does indicate problems with homosexuality,
there is no clear-cut indication that this would be the case with a
same-sex MARRIED couple. Also -- the 10 Commandments
obviously are the equivalent of the Bible's "constitution." The
way they're written, it's pretty much a REVERSE "Bill of Rights."
If same-sex marriage *were* a problem to an omniscient God who
clearly saw OUR day when He composed it, it seems logical that
He'd have made SOME mention of it in there. He didn't.
-- Craig Chilton
-- Craig Chilton
Zzzz.
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| User: "Craig Chilton" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
27 Feb 2004 08:48:36 AM |
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:02:14 -0500,
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
Robert heishman ("Osprey") wrote:
Craig Chilton < > wrote:
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
Yet when a judge stood up for what he believed in and
believed he was supporting the constitution and the consti-
tution in Alabama, he was persecuted.
The double standard continues.
Not in the least! Same-sex marriage is totally harmless. It
would have NO effect upon the marriages of any heterosexual
couples.
However, Judge Moore DESERVED condemnation for his
blatant attempt to make it appear that the state ENDORSED a
particular religion.
No, he upheld the constitution and his oath, which included God.
I've seen no evidence that God told him to break the supreme law
of the land.
He wasn't breaking any laws.
Many Supreme Court decisions have shown that separation of
church and state is implicit in the First Amendment. Most lawyers
should be well aware of that. ALL *judges* should be. And the
CHIEF Justice of a state's supreme court is without excuse if he
doesn't know that. The placement of 10 Commandments monument
was a violation of the principle of the separation of church and state
on PUBLIC property. Which means that it can be freely displayed
with NO problem on any of the land or buildings that comprise the
OTHER 95% of the space in America. He could have placed it in his
front yard for all to see, and NO one would have complained.
Ex-judge Moore had a DEFIANT and moronic agenda, and he
got very properly slapped down for his stupidity.
Civil disobediance DOES have its place, when worthwhile
individual liberties are being trampled. We saw that during the
Civil Rights Movement of the late '50s and early '60s. And we're
seeing it now in the Gay Rights Movement.
The DIFFERENCE is that an attempt to tear down the very
*** protective*** barrier that spares our liberties from attack by a
religius tyranny is stupid, pointless, hateful, and destructive.
Whereas efforts to ensure that no one be deprived of EQUALITY
over such TRIVIAL matters as race, ethnicity, or sexual orienta-
tion are examples of the very BEST motives for employing civil
disobedience.
To be fair to him, he was asked if he would allow a
monument to the Koran to be placed alongside the 10
Commandments monument in the same building, and he said he
would NOT. Thus flying in the face of the principle of separation
of church and state that has protected us from tyrannical state
religions for hundreds of years. He tried to set a dangerous
precedent, and was very PROPERLY fired for doing so.
Double standards.
Support a sin
Attack God
I'm supporting no sin.
Homosexuality is a sin Craig.
That is open to interpretation. And even if such interpretation
leads to that conclusion for Judeo-Christians -- 17% of Americans
are NOT Judeo-Christian, and as such are EXEMPT from being
PUT UPON by Judeo-Christians. The Bible appointed NO Gestapo
to attempt to ENFORCE its precepts (real -- or worse, misperceived)
against society in general.
And unlike the RRR cultists, I am NOT about to self-appoint
myself to such an **arrogant** role with NO authority.
I'm defending our liberties. Very VITAL liberties. And that
includes NO attack on God.
That is all this is. And you said you are a Christian?
Yes. One the tens of millions of SENSIBLE ones.
The judge stood for freedom of speech.
See above. If that were true, he'd have allowed the Koran
monument. He's a mindless bigot.
He took a oath, that included a oath to God, and he supported
that oath with the display of the 10 commandments.
See above. His act was idiotic, and he should have
known better.
He did the right thing.
In your opinion. Not even REMOTELY in mine. He broke the
law and got fired for it. I agree with that. Because the law that
HE broke was a WORTHWHILE law.
And yet he was ridiculed.
He deserved every bit of that that he received. For the
reasons I just stated.
But we got a mayor who is disobeying the law, passing out
papers that are WORTHLESS, while homosexuals pay $150.00
for this worthless piece of paper...and he is a hero?
Yes, because the couples KNOW that such a risk exists, but
they are all united in this effort to push for EQUALITY. **Just** as
the blacks and their allies from other races did, 40 years ago. Then,
the demonstrations were in Selma, D.C., and elsewhere. Today,
it's Massachusetts and San Francisco. And the goals are equally
laudable and important.
And TODAY (2/27/04), more than a dozen gay couples in
Iowa City, Iowa are about to apply for marriage licenses there.
They will almost surely be turned down, and they expect to be.
But they're doing the right thing. This just helps that much more
to *exemplify* and shine a spotlight on the INJUSTICE that is
being done to millions of gays throughout most of America.
S.F. is making THOUSANDS and giving people worthless
pieces of paper, ...
Ultimately, those certificates may turn out to be totally valid.
If not, they'll each fetch a small fortune on E-Bay.
...and a mayor disregarding due process of the law... and
he is a hero?
Just as much as Rosa Parks was. They both put themselves
at risk to further human rights and equality.
There is something terribly wrong, when we have a nation
that turns away from God,...
No such thing has happened.
Yes, it is happening. Homosexuality is clearly wrong and a sin.
Perhaps. The Bible indicates the likelihood of that. But that is
between THEM and God. There's no call for the anti-gay-rights
busybodyism that so many have been guilty of.
No Craig, It is also up to us to honor Gods word. And by accepting
homosexuality, trying to justify it, is ignoring God's word.
Seeking to impose hardship and misery upon people for NO good
reason is a direct and blatant violation of Jesus' prime directive:
for His followers to show love and compassion to their neighbors.
I don't hate the person, I hate the sin. And I will not support the
sin by allowing laws to support it.
Consider this: The "sin" to which you refer has to do with the
SEX that they share. Which they will DO, unabated, whether they
are married or not. Granting them the right to marry is simply an
additional incentive for those couples to be monogamous. Many
will not be, despite being married, just as is the case with *hetero*-
sexuals. But many of them probably WILL be more monogamous,
which carries for them the SAME benefit that it carries for the hets:
it can reduce their risk of contracting STDs, and thus save some of
their lives.
And for anyone to even accept the idea of allowing homosex-
uals to be married is committing a sin by accepting homosexuality.
I "accept" anything that any person does which does not
break a worthwhile law (bigotry-enforcing laws excluded), and
which does no overt harm to their neighbors. Remember that
the Bible is *meaningless* to at least 17% of our multi-cultural
population, so I'm not about to impose control-freakism on any
person. If there's a disagreement between what they do and God,
they can take it up with God. That is every person's right.
It is a sin Craig, and you claimed you are a Christian. You
should know better.
See above, and add this to it: The Bible neither appointed not
authorized ANY person to act as an ENFORCER of its precepts (either
real, or, as is the case with opposition to abortion, misperceived)
against society in general. The Bible appointed NO such Gestapo.
But the RRR cult -- BEING a misinformed and programmed cult --
obviously doesn't know any better.
This are no gray areas, it is wrong, it is a sin, and if you accept
it you are turning away from God.
Wrong. I'm leaving it in GOD's hands. Huge difference.
No Craig, by allowing it to become legal in marriage, is to accept
the act. That is why I object to homosexual marriage.
See above. By NOT being so inflexible, you could be helping many
of them to live longer.
But if second-class citizenship is perpetuated against homo-
sexuals, that will be a slap in the face to Jesus, who commanded
us to show love and compassion to our neighbors. One doesn't
do that by imposing misery upon people.
Yes, you show love and compassion, but that doesn't mean
you have to accept the sinful act.
It is NOT my place to *interfere* with any person's personal and
private business. Supporting bigoted laws WOULD constitute such
interference.
Please Craig, don't quote Jesus Christ when you are turning
away from the word of God.
Sorry, Robert, but we disagree 100% on this.
Yes we do Craig.
That's nothing new for us. But at least we've both learned to be
civil in the process.
And Jesus CLEARLY commanded us to show love and
compassion to out neighbors.
And no one said you can't show love and compassion to
our neighbors.
See above, in THIS post.
One does the **oopposite** of that if he supports imposing
misery upon them, or discriminates against them (such as in
housing, and the workplace).
You, nor I, asked them to be homosexual. We should be trying
to help them learn Gods word. That is love and compassion.
We are instructed to spread the gospel. That is far more likely
to be effective when the Christians who are doing it are NOT
simultaneously attempting to deprive people of equal rights.
People give NO credibility to hypocrites, and in such a case,
*that* is all that those being approached would be seeing.
It is hypocrisy and you are just as guilty as the sinner themselves
for even accepting the idea of homosexuals getting married.
Many of the O.T. laws bit the dust in the later disposition. And
even though the N.T. does indicate problems with homosexuality,
there is no clear-cut indication that this would be the case with a
same-sex MARRIED couple. Also -- the 10 Commandments
obviously are the equivalent of the Bible's "constitution." The
way they're written, it's pretty much a REVERSE "Bill of Rights."
If same-sex marriage *were* a problem to an omniscient God who
clearly saw OUR day when He composed it, it seems logical that
He'd have made SOME mention of it in there. He didn't.
-- Craig Chilton
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| User: "Mike Walton" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! -it should ! |
23 Feb 2004 02:44:26 PM |
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GPS evidence proved that Scott Peterson, who was falsely accused of
murdering Laci, was concerned about the course of the investigation.
As a matter of fact, he evidently went to the Bay, more out of
disbelief about the course of the investigation, than out of fear that
the police would discover his wife's body. When Scott Peterson went to
the Bay, he only stayed 2 or 3 minutes each time, and that is clearly
not a man who was concerned about what the police were doing. The
police had already shocked and isolated Scott Peterson by treating him
like a guilty suspect, and Scott didn't need any more than 2 or 3
minutes to confirm the fact the police were not investigating the
disappearance of Laci, they were merely seeking to confirm their
suspicions at best and pursuing the leads that the real murderers were
advancing, at worst.
Perhaps the police are angry at Scott Peterson because he was aware of
the fact that they were tailing him to the marina and having made fun
of them, they think that GPS tracking devices prove that the police
essentially duped a confession. They did not.
Since when is Scott denied the opportunity to observe the
investigation into his own wife's murder? -- if anybody cares to call
tailing Scott Peterson, an "investigation". In the final analysis, the
police were tracking Scott Peterson when they should have been looking
for Laci, and they are pursueing Scott at all cost, to evade the
simple truth.
http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/scott.htm
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| User: "Dennis Kemmerer" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! -it should ! |
23 Feb 2004 03:10:30 PM |
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"Mike Walton" <mikewalton55@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d2701d5a.0402231244.76d7e0c4@posting.google.com...
GPS evidence proved that Scott Peterson, who was falsely accused of
[snip]
This has what to do with alt.politics.homosexuality?
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 10:36:50 PM |
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osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
(Craig Chilton) wrote in message news:<40317df9.190548@netnews.mchsi.com>...
He has MY nomination!
It's too soon for that, now, but let's keep this in mind for
reminding our Congressional representatives, a few years
from now, after the war for EQUAL rights has been WON.
"Newsome Day." Sounds good!!!
-- Craig Chilton
Yet when a judge stood up for what he believed in and believed he was
supporting the constitution and the constitution in Alabama,
You're lying again, *****.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
22 Feb 2004 12:17:12 PM |
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Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
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| User: "Rev. Donald Spitz" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
22 Feb 2004 02:05:55 PM |
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"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Im6_b.3727$yZ1.2316@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
He belongs in prison with all his homo sex perverted friends.
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I know I am a sinner.
I believe you died on the cross to take away my
sins. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart
and be my Lord and my Savior, and take away my sins.
http://www.ArmyofGod.com
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| User: "Patrick Lee Humphrey" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
22 Feb 2004 02:19:01 PM |
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"Rev. Donald Spitz" <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> writes:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Im6_b.3727$yZ1.2316@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
He belongs in prison with all his homo sex perverted friends.
Life has really sucked for you since that Emancipation Proclamation, hasn't
it, Fake Reverend?
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2003-04 Houston Aeros)
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
22 Feb 2004 02:51:45 PM |
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Rev. Donald Spitz <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
He belongs in prison with all his homo sex perverted friends.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he
love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:20
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I know I am a sinner.
I believe you died on the cross to take away my
sins. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart
and be my Lord and my Savior, and take away my sins.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:5
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "rgeorge" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
22 Feb 2004 11:08:15 PM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:c1b4p0$jdl$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Rev. Donald Spitz <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
He belongs in prison with all his homo sex perverted friends.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he
love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:20
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I know I am a sinner.
I believe you died on the cross to take away my
sins. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart
and be my Lord and my Savior, and take away my sins.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:5
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
The Bible admonishes: "O you lovers of YHWH, hate what is bad." (Psalm
97:10) Hence, Christians are expected to hate every practice that violates
YHWH's laws. Some people may even react with stronger feelings of aversion
or disgust toward homosexuality than toward other types of immorality,
viewing homosexuality as an unnatural sexual perversion. However, should
Christians hate the individuals who practice such things?
The psalmist sheds some light on this issue at Psalm 139:21, 22: "Do I not
hate those who are intensely hating you, O YHWH, and do I not feel a
loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate
them. They have become to me real enemies." Our loyalty to YHWH and his
principles should generate in us a strong dislike of those who deliberately
revolt against YHWH and who take a stand as God's enemies. Satan and the
demons are among such confirmed enemies of God. Some humans also likely fall
into this category. Yet, it may be very difficult for a Christian to
identify such people from outward appearances. We cannot read hearts.
(Jeremiah 17:9, 10) It would be wrong to assume that one is an unreformable
enemy of God because he or she is practicing wrong. In many cases wrongdoers
simply do not know God's standards.
Hence, generally speaking, Christians are slow to hate fellow humans. Even
if they have strong feelings of abhorrence toward certain life-styles, they
do not seek to inflict injury on others, nor do they harbor spite or malice
toward them. Rather, the Bible counsels Christians to "be peaceable with all
men."-Romans 12:9, 17-19.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
22 Feb 2004 11:16:54 PM |
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rgeorge <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Rev. Donald Spitz <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
He belongs in prison with all his homo sex perverted friends.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he
love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:20
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I know I am a sinner.
I believe you died on the cross to take away my
sins. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart
and be my Lord and my Savior, and take away my sins.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:5
The Bible admonishes: "O you lovers of YHWH, hate what is bad." (Psalm
97:10)
I didn't have to quote some obscure Psalm. That passage from Matthew
are the words of Jesus.
In fact Jesus Christ was quite clear in saying that you are not to
condemn other people for what YOU believe is evil.
[...]
Hence, generally speaking, Christians are slow to hate fellow humans.
Yeah, there's plenty of evidence for that claim, isn't there? It's
not like Christians have killed anybody who didn't behave exactly
as the Bible supposedly says people should.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "rgeorge" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
25 Feb 2004 01:18:26 PM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:c1c2c5$ke$1@bolt.sonic.net...
rgeorge <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Rev. Donald Spitz <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
He belongs in prison with all his homo sex perverted friends.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he
love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:20
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I know I am a sinner.
I believe you died on the cross to take away my
sins. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart
and be my Lord and my Savior, and take away my sins.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:5
The Bible admonishes: "O you lovers of YHWH, hate what is bad." (Psalm
97:10)
I didn't have to quote some obscure Psalm. That passage from Matthew
are the words of Jesus.
In fact Jesus Christ was quite clear in saying that you are not to
condemn other people for what YOU believe is evil.
[...]
Hence, generally speaking, Christians are slow to hate fellow humans.
Yeah, there's plenty of evidence for that claim, isn't there? It's
not like Christians have killed anybody who didn't behave exactly
as the Bible supposedly says people should.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
Christians upon the earth today have the benefit of seeing how Christ and
the inspired apostles reasoned on Bible principles. Jesus himself had made a
solemn dedication to serve YHWH. That meant he was a minister or ambassador
of YHWH and was required to give his first attention to YHWH's service. He
appreciated true values, visualizing the rightness of his position and
keeping clear of the old world or false human reasonings. He preached the
storing up of treasures in heaven and practiced what he preached by serving
in full-time ministry. He understood the principles that all things belong
to YHWH and the blessing of YHWH makes rich. He resisted the effort of the
people to make him a king. Jesus was positive in his expressions and
actions. He fully understood his place and the work to be done. While he was
neutral toward the conflicts, politics and commerce of this world, yet he
did not hesitate to speak out in condemnation of the violations of the
righteous principles of God. He did not compromise principles with being
overly tactful.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
26 Feb 2004 12:23:49 AM |
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rgeorge <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
rgeorge <reecegeorge@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
Rev. Donald Spitz <Glory2Jesus@ArmyofGod.com> wrote:
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
He belongs in prison with all his homo sex perverted friends.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he
love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:20
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I know I am a sinner.
I believe you died on the cross to take away my
sins. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart
and be my Lord and my Savior, and take away my sins.
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have their reward.
Matthew 6:5
The Bible admonishes: "O you lovers of YHWH, hate what is bad." (Psalm
97:10)
I didn't have to quote some obscure Psalm. That passage from Matthew
are the words of Jesus.
In fact Jesus Christ was quite clear in saying that you are not to
condemn other people for what YOU believe is evil.
[...]
Hence, generally speaking, Christians are slow to hate fellow humans.
Yeah, there's plenty of evidence for that claim, isn't there? It's
not like Christians have killed anybody who didn't behave exactly
as the Bible supposedly says people should.
Christians upon the earth today have the benefit of seeing how Christ and
the inspired apostles reasoned on Bible principles.
Which you then proceed to completely ignore.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
22 Feb 2004 08:37:23 PM |
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"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Im6_b.3727$yZ1.2316@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
And we see plenty of those types among those that want to deny people
rights, such as those that oppose letting homosexuals marry and those
that don't think that women can decide for themselves whether or not
to get an abortion.
After all, these people think that their opinion should rule the
world, and that all people should bow down to their personal beliefs
and opinions.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 02:26:53 AM |
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"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0402221837.2a6d0035@posting.google.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<Im6_b.3727$yZ1.2316@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
And we see plenty of those types among those that want to deny people
rights,
I don't wish to deny anyone (even gay people) their rights. At the same
time, I don't believe it's right to grant "special rights" such as letting
gay people redefine mariage to suit their own agenda.
such as those that oppose letting homosexuals marry and those
that don't think that women can decide for themselves whether or not
to get an abortion.
Given that you probably don't even know my views on abortion, why do you
make such an assumption?
After all, these people think that their opinion should rule the
world, and that all people should bow down to their personal beliefs
and opinions.
Sounds like PC liberalism to me...
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 03:31:07 PM |
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"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<hPi_b.4698$yZ1.4678@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0402221837.2a6d0035@posting.google.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<Im6_b.3727$yZ1.2316@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
And we see plenty of those types among those that want to deny people
rights,
I don't wish to deny anyone (even gay people) their rights.
Really? It sounds like you do. You wish to deny them their right to
marry whom they wish.
At the same
time, I don't believe it's right to grant "special rights" such as letting
gay people redefine mariage to suit their own agenda.
OK. You have just stated a contradiction. You say you don't wish to
deny anyone any rights, and then you turn around and state that you
don't wish to allow homosexuals the right to get married to the person
that they wish to.
Exactly what "special rights" are homosexuals asking for? How do
those rights differ materially from the rights of heterosexuals? How
do those rights materially alter or diminsh the rights of
heterosexuals?
Religious reasons are not acceptable. You do not have the right to
force anyone else to accept or follow your religious beliefs. Your
reasons must be secular. By the way, allowing homosexuals to marry
will not require any religious institution to perform these marriages.
Just like heterosexuals, homosexuals getting married can opt for a
civil ceremony.
such as those that oppose letting homosexuals marry and those
that don't think that women can decide for themselves whether or not
to get an abortion.
Given that you probably don't even know my views on abortion, why do you
make such an assumption?
I didn't. However, alt.abortion, where I am posting from. does
concern itself primarily with abortion. Also, there is a large
overlap between those that wish to deny women the right to an abortion
and those that wish to deny homosexuals the right to marry.
Basically, I was pointing out two distinct groups that wish to deny
people their personal and civil rights, and they seem to think that
the world revolves around them and their religion.
After all, these people think that their opinion should rule the
world, and that all people should bow down to their personal beliefs
and opinions.
Sounds like PC liberalism to me...
Sorry, my statement was a statement of fact based on what people post
and the stance that they take. They seem to think that they can deny
people their personal and civil rights and force them to adhere to
their personal opinions, just because they don't like the actions that
these people want to take, but which they do not deny for themselves.
Also, you seem to think that liberalism is a bad thing. Do you even
know what "liberal" means? (And I am not talking about "the opposite
of conservative" definition. I am talking about the general
definition.) Somehow I doubt it.
Here is the definition from Dictionary.com:
Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or
authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and
tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
One who favors greater freedom in political or religious matters; an
opponent of the established systems
Showing or characterized by broad-mindedness;
A person who favors a political philosophy of progress and reform and
the protection of civil liberties
Having political or social views favoring reform and progress
Tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or
tradition
Let's look at the definitions. "Broad-minded", "tolerant", "free of
bigotry", "favors greater freedom in political or religious matters",
"favors the political philosophy of progress and reform and the
potection of civil liberties". Interestingly enough, most people
would consider those to be positive traits. Therefore, calling
someone a liberal is actually a complement, not a put down.
So, thank you for the complement. Perhaps it is something that you
should strive for yourself.
Mark Sebree
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| User: "Stan de SD" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
23 Feb 2004 11:22:15 PM |
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"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0402231331.54e23a2e@posting.google.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<hPi_b.4698$yZ1.4678@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0402221837.2a6d0035@posting.google.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<Im6_b.3727$yZ1.2316@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
And we see plenty of those types among those that want to deny people
rights,
I don't wish to deny anyone (even gay people) their rights.
Really? It sounds like you do.
Based on the fact that I don't accept some specious argument regarding your
interpretation of the law?
You wish to deny them their right to marry whom they wish.
And there's the fundamental flaw in your reasoning: your complaint isn't
that the law is not applied fairly and/or evenly (which it is), it's merely
that it doesn't allow you to do as you wish. Let me offer an analogy to make
it clearer: Interstate 5 between the Grapevine and the Altamont Pass Cutoff
has a speed limit of 70 MPH. Now, some people are content to drive the speed
limit. However, I would personally prefer to go faster. After all, I have a
big Mercedes sedan that was built for high-speed autobahn cruising, and on a
dry, clear day with light traffic, I don't see any safety issue in driving
90 MPH when heading back and forth from No Cal to So Cal. However, the mere
fact that I would WANT to drive faster than the law permits is hardly an
equal rights issue, since all other licensed drivers (not driving trucks or
pulling trailers) are also limited to 70 MPH. I can see the response I would
get from that CHiPper in the white Camaro if I argued that I was being
discriminated against because I really wanted to go 90. Once again, claiming
that you are denied equal protection under the law merely because you would
with to break it when others don't is a pretty lame excuse, which is why
most people in this state aren't going for it. Got it?
At the same
time, I don't believe it's right to grant "special rights" such as
letting
gay people redefine mariage to suit their own agenda.
OK. You have just stated a contradiction. You say you don't wish to
deny anyone any rights, and then you turn around and state that you
don't wish to allow homosexuals the right to get married to the person
that they wish to.
Not at all - reread what I posted above.
Exactly what "special rights" are homosexuals asking for? \
To change the marriage laws to accomodate their desire to do something that
others can't legally do.
How do
those rights differ materially from the rights of heterosexuals? How
do those rights materially alter or diminsh the rights of
heterosexuals?
I don't get to change laws merely because they restrict me from what I like
to do - otherwise the speed limit on Interstates outside of city limits
would be 100 MPH, fireworks and firearms would be available to any adult w/o
a criminal record, and there would be beer vending machines in BART
stations.
Religious reasons are not acceptable. You do not have the right to
force anyone else to accept or follow your religious beliefs.
such as those that oppose letting homosexuals marry and those
that don't think that women can decide for themselves whether or not
to get an abortion.
Given that you probably don't even know my views on abortion, why do you
make such an assumption?
I didn't. However, alt.abortion, where I am posting from. does
concern itself primarily with abortion. Also, there is a large
overlap between those that wish to deny women the right to an abortion
and those that wish to deny homosexuals the right to marry.
You still miss the point - I don't deny anyone the right to marry based on
sexual orientation. I don't believe in changing the law merely because some
people (for whatever reason) with to marry people of the same sex, whether
it is because they are gay, want citizenship in the US, whatever.
Basically, I was pointing out two distinct groups that wish to deny
people their personal and civil rights, and they seem to think that
the world revolves around them and their religion.
But how would that be much different from a particularly vocal group that
wishes to have special rights granted merely because of their sexual
orientation?
My argument against gay marriage has NOTHING to do with religion, since I
don't subscribe to any religious belief whatsoever. My objection is based on
three issues: (1) It's a patently silly concept that clearly contradicts the
concept and purpose of marriage, even when defined as a civil arrangement
(2) by changing the law to suit the whims of the gay community, it grants
special favors to one group of individuals, which is hardly consistent with
the concept of "equal rights", and (3) the arguments presented are so
spurious that they would have been laughed out of court in the days before
Political Correctness (and the total suspension of rational thinking it
predicates) infiltrated the mindset of the citizens of California.Sorry if
you have trouble accepting it, but that's where I stand.
After all, these people think that their opinion should rule the
world, and that all people should bow down to their personal beliefs
and opinions.
Sounds like PC liberalism to me...
Sorry, my statement was a statement of fact based on what people post
and the stance that they take.
And again, it sound exactly like the militant fringes of the gay community -
they want that all people should bow down to their personal beliefs and
opinions.
(rest of commentary snipped as tangential to the main issue...)
.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: Will the Birthday of Gay Rights HERO, Mayor Newsome, Become a National Holiday! |
25 Feb 2004 03:20:23 AM |
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"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<bcB_b.7155$aT1.1756@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0402231331.54e23a2e@posting.google.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<hPi_b.4698$yZ1.4678@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:c30d43e8.0402221837.2a6d0035@posting.google.com...
"Stan de SD" <standesd_DIGA_NO_A_SPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<Im6_b.3727$yZ1.2316@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
Only in a bunch of narcissisic drama queens who think that the world
revolves around them.
And we see plenty of those types among those that want to deny people
rights,
I don't wish to deny anyone (even gay people) their rights.
Really? It sounds like you do.
Based on the fact that I don't accept some specious argument regarding your
interpretation of the law?
You wish to deny them their right to marry whom they wish.
And there's the fundamental flaw in your reasoning: your complaint isn't
that the law is not applied fairly and/or evenly (which it is), it's merely
that it doesn't allow you to do as you wish.
And what do you think I wish to do? Answer carefully.
Let me offer an analogy to make
it clearer: Interstate 5 between the Grapevine and the Altamont Pass Cutoff
has a speed limit of 70 MPH.
State, please. I have no idea about where you are talking about.
Now, some people are content to drive the speed
limit. However, I would personally prefer to go faster. After all, I have a
big Mercedes sedan that was built for high-speed autobahn cruising, and on a
dry, clear day with light traffic, I don't see any safety issue in driving
90 MPH when heading back and forth from No Cal to So Cal. However, the mere
fact that I would WANT to drive faster than the law permits is hardly an
equal rights issue, since all other licensed drivers (not driving trucks or
pulling trailers) are also limited to 70 MPH. I can see the response I would
get from that CHiPper in the white Camaro if I argued that I was being
discriminated against because I really wanted to go 90. Once again, claiming
that you are denied equal protection under the law merely because you would
with to break it when others don't is a pretty lame excuse, which is why
most people in this state aren't going for it. Got it?
Yes. You are using a false analogy. The speed limit applies to
everyone equally. There is no discrimination involved, and no
difference in rights. It is not as if women can drive 80 MPH simply
because they happen to be women.
However, that analogy falls apart when you look at the issue under
discussion. Most people can marry the person that they wish to. And
that marriage gives them special rights under the laws, rights that
span as | | | | | | |
