Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows



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Topic: Science > Abortion
User: "Mr. Young"
Date: 31 Aug 2006 12:45:15 AM
Object: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows
Just one more example proving beyond doubt; pro-life is pro-woman.
http://www.lifenews.com/nat2552.html
Springfield, IL (LifeNews.com) -- A new survey shows women considering an
abortion want to know information about the risks and dangers associated
with it beforehand. The survey stands in stark contrast to the position
abortion advocates take in opposition to legislation allowing women to know
the potential medical problems abortion presents.
The Journal of Medical Ethics published the results of the survey of 187
women in July.
The survey polled women seeking obstetric and gynecological services at a
Wisconsin women's health clinic and they were asked to give their opinions
about receiving information for elective medical procedures.
In the survey they ranked the kind of information they would want beforehand
and ranked the severity of different kinds of complications form a medical
procedure ranging from a headache to death.
The results showed 95 percent of patients wished to be informed of all the
risks of a procedure and 65 percent would want to know all of the possible
alternatives beforehand -- not just those alternatives a doctor presents.
In the ranking of risks, women placed mental and emotional health
consequences very high on the list -- only slightly below the risk of death
or heart disease.
Dr. David Reardon, director of the Elliot Institute and one of co-authors of
the study, said the finding may be especially important vis-a-vis abortion
decisions since recent peer-reviewed studies have linked abortion to
increased rates of mental health problems.
Some problems coming from an abortion, according to various studies, include
suicidal behavior, clinical depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse,
and sleep disorders.
"Doctors should anticipate that most women desire information on every
potential risk, even risks that doctors may judge to be less serious or
inconsequentially rare, and they will generally consider this information to
be relevant to their decisions regarding elective procedures," the authors
wrote in the study.
Reardon, in a statement sent to LifeNews.com, said the survey "demonstrates
that women have a high level of interest in being informed of any risk that
is statistically associated with the procedure, including psychological
risks."
While abortion businesses may regard some abortion risks as relatively
minor, Dr. Reardon said women don't regard them that way.
"It also reveals that while some experts may consider some associations,
such as a 10 percent higher risk of breast cancer, as relatively
unimportant, most women would consider it to be very important to their
decision making process," he said.
Reardon also said the study refutes the claim that abortion practitioners
should withhold information about studies identifying abortion risks simply
because he believes that future studies may someday disprove the earlier
findings.
"Our survey shows that most women don't want doctors to screen which
information they are told about risks," he said. "They want to judge the
evidence for themselves."
Reardon concluded that the study showed women "clearly prefer to be fully
informed about all possible complications, even if abortion providers insist
that the causal links between abortion and these statistically linked
complications have yet to be fully proven to the abortionist's
satisfaction."
Dr. Priscilla Coleman, a professor at Bowling Green State University, was
another one of the authors of the new study.
--
----------
Mr. J Yöung
youngopinions@aol.com
.

User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 04 Sep 2006 12:13:07 AM
In article <-OydnQbrwamFLWbZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Osprey
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

"Emmanual Kann" <kann@keinspam.de> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.09.03.21.59.22.483149@keinspam.de...

An Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:04:39 -0700, Anamika hat geschreibt:

Your impervious to grammatical instruction.


LOL!


It is funny, Anamika talks about "grammar" and yet she doesn't know the
difference between Your and You're

Look who's talking. Your grammar is terrible. And your only excuse:
Wilmington College.
.
User: "Anamika"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 04 Sep 2006 07:20:15 AM
David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <-OydnQbrwamFLWbZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Osprey
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

"Emmanual Kann" <kann@keinspam.de> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.09.03.21.59.22.483149@keinspam.de...

An Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:04:39 -0700, Anamika hat geschreibt:

Your impervious to grammatical instruction.


LOL!


It is funny, Anamika talks about "grammar" and yet she doesn't know the
difference between Your and You're


Look who's talking. Your grammar is terrible. And your only excuse:
Wilmington College.

It's funny, actually--isn't he the dope who pathelogically confuses
"you" and "you're," David?
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 04 Sep 2006 10:29:54 AM
In article <1157372415.343600.129350@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Anamika <starchaser@inorbit.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <-OydnQbrwamFLWbZnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Osprey
<noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

"Emmanual Kann" <kann@keinspam.de> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.09.03.21.59.22.483149@keinspam.de...

An Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:04:39 -0700, Anamika hat geschreibt:

Your impervious to grammatical instruction.


LOL!


It is funny, Anamika talks about "grammar" and yet she doesn't know the
difference between Your and You're


Look who's talking. Your grammar is terrible. And your only excuse:
Wilmington College.


It's funny, actually--isn't he the dope who pathelogically confuses
"you" and "you're," David?

Yes. That and about a hundred other things. It isn't the kind of
thing people do without thinking (their and there), but really basic
stuff. Furthermore, he does it repeatedly.
.



User: "Anamika"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 04 Sep 2006 07:18:28 AM
Osprey wrote:

"Emmanual Kann" <kann@keinspam.de> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.09.03.21.59.22.483149@keinspam.de...

An Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:04:39 -0700, Anamika hat geschreibt:

Your impervious to grammatical instruction.


LOL!


It is funny, Anamika talks about "grammar" and yet she doesn't know the
difference between Your and You're

My mistake isn't about a lack of knowledge. Whereas your errors stem
from innate and impenetrable ignorance.
.

User: "Anamika"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 03 Sep 2006 05:52:42 PM
Emmanual Kann wrote:

An Sat, 02 Sep 2006 03:04:39 -0700, Anamika hat geschreibt:

[You're] impervious to grammatical instruction.


LOL!

At least I bother to learn, while ocassionally missing. ;-)
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 01 Sep 2006 10:10:45 AM
osprey wrote:

thedeviliam@hotmail.com wrote:

osprey wrote:

thedeviliam@hotmail.com wrote:

Mr. Young wrote:

Just one more example proving beyond doubt; pro-life is pro-woman.

Firstly, I'd like to reinstate that people who call themselves
"pro-life" obviously have many views that show they aren't. Most of
them are christians, and christianity has killed people already born
unlike the right to choose.


And so have atheist, so using your logic we can say that atheist are
not "pro-life".

Yes, but the pro-choice heathens aren't calling themselves "pro-life",
they're calling themselves pro-choice BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FUCKING
TALKING ABOUT. CHOICE.


So what's wrong with someone CHOOSING to oppose abortion???

Once again, your argument seems to be "you're wrong also" when you
obviously don't even know what I'm talking about it--unless you're
trying to pretend to not understand my points on purpose. The statement
you just replied to was about the LABEL "pro-life" being propaganda
whereas the "pro-choice" label addresses your actual stance on the
debate. This went way over your head, evidently. The main thing I was
saying is that if "pro-lifers" wanted to have a civilized debate and
not just act high-and-mighty (and by high, I mean they act like they're
fucking tripping their asses off) they would call themselves
"anti-choice". Pro-choice doesn't even mean pro-abortion, but these
labels are trying to put a spin on it, and if you're so right, why do
you do this? Nevermind, I'll probably just get another non-sequitur out
of you.

How can somebody this blatantly deceptive be

expected to be taken seriously? You of all people shouldn't be like
this, because by behaving in this manner you might scare someone into
grabbing a coathanger and hopefully ridding the world of someone who
may be something like you.


Oh my, you are really mature aren't you???

Case in point. You can't be taken seriously. You don't even have
anything to say.



So, since they're all liars,


Atheist lie too. Have you ever lied?

Everyone has lied,


Then you are a liar!

Liar has a present-tense connotation. I'm not lying now. Anyone who
calls themself "pro-life" is presently being deceptive. And again, I'd
like to point out to anyone following this that your argument from the
get-go is basically "you are as low and dishonest as I am". You aren't
even TRYING to be right. This is absolutely amazing.

but that doesn't make your entire essence of being a

lie. In context, the point I made had to refer to the labels of
"pro-life" and "pro-choice". If your argument is anti-lie, why stick to
this label? Is that the point, that calling yourself "pro-life" is okay
even though it's deceptive? If not, please respectfully explain your
retarded *****.


I am not sure if you are grown up enough, you are acting very childish
and I don't think you can comprehend my explanation.

If you didn't even want to try to come here and make sense, why did you
bother replying in the first place? You're just being blatantly
defensive and you're in over your head in trying to argue. You either
try to say I'm just as wrong as you or you can't say *****--and then you
call me childish. Way to go, slick.



nothing they

say can be trusted and they've already lost.


So nothing can be trusted that atheist say since they have lied as
well,

First of all, we all make typos, but realize there is more than one
atheist, so learn to spell.


Oh, you want a spelling war too? No problem, just make sure you are
perfect.

I ignore most spelling errors, I just had to mention that you
repeatedly referred to "atheists" as "atheist" and it sparked my
curiousity as to whether or not there was any motive there. I ignored
it initially but since you did it again, it did not appear to be a typo
anymore. I know you understand at least the concept of plural nouns, so
obviously it makes it seem intentional when you do it successively.

I would never say that all under one label

are the same just as I would never say all Christians suck as much as
you.


And you expect to be taken seriously, acting like you are????

I've explained where you're wrong, you haven't explained where I'm
wrong. But you make a reply like this saying I'm wrong and not even
trying to support any type of case. If you don't want to play, just
stay home.

My point was merely was once you catch a liar in a lie, and they

keep trying to work from that, it's dumbassed to pretend they're being
honest.

By the fucking way, it might be of interest to any sane person that you
haven't even attempted to say you aren't a liar.


I would be lying if I said I never lied. Of course I have, we all
have.

Did you just rip off what I said in the post you're replying to?

You've just defended

lying. Is this really the level to which you wanted to sink?


ROFL, reading this post and your response...and you want to talk about
sinking to a certain level???
Oh puh-lease.

Once again, you haven't addressed any issues I mentioned, so you have
no credibility as a critic.


and since you probably told a lie or two, or many for all we
know, nothing you say can be trusted and you've already lost.

About what? Maybe I lied about having a drink and left a beer can on my
chest and passed out. I wouldn't trust my argument for sobriety. We're
evaluating a situation, and so far your argument has been "YOU CAN BE
WRONG TOO"! Of course I can. Just because the other party is CAPABLE of
being wrong does NOT mean that you are correct in any way. Your
argument sounds like you're trying to be the Malcolm X of people who
are wrong and lie. I can't be black, I can be wrong, and I can lie.
Maybe you're a freedom fighter for idiots. But don't you have anything
better to fight for than being wrong? Oh, nevermind.

See how easy this is to just lump people into a category yet? It's
what you are doing.

Even the word "people" is a category, idiot. Nouns are all labels.


You are lumping people, based on what they believe or don't believe,
into a category. It's bigotry to say the very least, not to mention
dishonest.

Even the word "people" is a category, idiot. Nouns are all labels.
Learn to read.




"Pro-life" is constantly

used by supporters of war, capital punishment, and weaker standards
regarding gun control.


So there are no people on the "pro-choice" side that support war,
capital punishment, and weaker standards regarding gun control?

Of course there are, I'm just pointing out that the label is dogshit,
doesn't describe the people it's supposed to, and it's basically
propaganda of a caliber that makes Hitler sound like James Joyce. Keep
up, little man.

How about atheist, are there any that support war, capital punishment,
and/or weaker standards regarding gun control?

You're using labels also, by the way. Labels are strictly economy. We
sum ***** up because we're not omnicient, like God, who only sums *****
up and sends groups to hell because he's drunk and lazy.

Which by the way, we have more than enough gun control laws now.

Okay, this is why we have labels. How did I know you felt this way?

Wouldn't it be funny if a "pro-lifer" could come up with some logical
explanation why we should take anything they say seriously when their
very label is a lie?


Wouldn't it be funny if you, most likely another atheist, could come up
with some logical explanation as to why you should be taken seriously,
especially since you have probably lied in your life?

Um, because people who lie have a motive, whether or not they even
realize it. Maybe "atheist" isn't a logical label for me because I
don't have faith in "no God"...I'm a non-faith person...although it's
hard to "not believe" in something so vaguely defined and ambiguous
anyway. I'd have better luck being a Bigfoot atheist, because at least
there's pictures of Bigfoot. Even if your argument succeeded it would
still be "you're wrong too" so why do you even bother? Pathetic.

By the way, I am a trained marksman in the state of Delaware with the
Department of Corrections. I do own a firearm, I am licensed to carry.
So what's your problem with that, since you brought up gun control.

People as stupid as you are dangerous enough without the fucking guns.


Well, if you think you can convince the department to strip me of my
job, go for it.

There's no reasoning with some people, as the post concludes. I'll see
you on the news.

Other than that, I think enough time has been wasted on you. There are
enough children to argue with.

You must be ashamed to be verbally and intellectually raped by a child.
.

User: "Attila"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 31 Aug 2006 04:28:30 AM
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 01:45:15 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ZcadnXJVJL1b6mvZnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:

Just one more example proving beyond doubt; pro-life is pro-woman.

How about the dangers of pregnancy? Should they get equal billing?
--
Pro-Choice is Pro-Freedom
.
User: "osprey"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 31 Aug 2006 12:00:00 PM
Attila wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 01:45:15 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ZcadnXJVJL1b6mvZnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:

Just one more example proving beyond doubt; pro-life is pro-woman.


How about the dangers of pregnancy? Should they get equal billing?

Every woman should know the dangers for both. I also think that every
woman should be told, precisely, what an abortion is about and what the
unborn fetus may look like at that stage. She should have every
opportunity to make her decision based on well informed facts and they
shouldn't try to hide so much from the woman, for example...they don't
want the woman to hear the heartbeat. Why is that Attila??? Could it
be because they might change their mind once they know they are killing
a living human being.
Now, watch you take off on the term human being instead of staying
focused on the issue.
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 31 Aug 2006 08:55:18 PM
In article <1157043600.904470.81970@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 01:45:15 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ZcadnXJVJL1b6mvZnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:

Just one more example proving beyond doubt; pro-life is pro-woman.


How about the dangers of pregnancy? Should they get equal billing?


Every woman should know the dangers for both. I also think that every
woman should be told, precisely, what an abortion is about and what the
unborn fetus may look like at that stage. She should have every
opportunity to make her decision based on well informed facts and they
shouldn't try to hide so much from the woman, for example...they don't
want the woman to hear the heartbeat.

They can hear the heartbeat if they like. You want to FORCE them to
hear the heartbeat.
.
User: "osprey"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 01 Sep 2006 12:43:58 AM
David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <1157043600.904470.81970@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 01:45:15 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ZcadnXJVJL1b6mvZnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:

Just one more example proving beyond doubt; pro-life is pro-woman.


How about the dangers of pregnancy? Should they get equal billing?


Every woman should know the dangers for both. I also think that every
woman should be told, precisely, what an abortion is about and what the
unborn fetus may look like at that stage. She should have every
opportunity to make her decision based on well informed facts and they
shouldn't try to hide so much from the woman, for example...they don't
want the woman to hear the heartbeat.


They can hear the heartbeat if they like. You want to FORCE them to
hear the heartbeat.

Where was that ever said????
They will not allow the woman to hear the heartbeat, they want to keep
her from hearing it because she might change her mind.
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 01 Sep 2006 01:27:17 AM
In article <1157089438.134875.52930@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <1157043600.904470.81970@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 01:45:15 -0400, "Mr. Young"
<youngopinions@aol.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<ZcadnXJVJL1b6mvZnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com> wrote:

Just one more example proving beyond doubt; pro-life is pro-woman.


How about the dangers of pregnancy? Should they get equal billing?


Every woman should know the dangers for both. I also think that every
woman should be told, precisely, what an abortion is about and what the
unborn fetus may look like at that stage. She should have every
opportunity to make her decision based on well informed facts and they
shouldn't try to hide so much from the woman, for example...they don't
want the woman to hear the heartbeat.


They can hear the heartbeat if they like. You want to FORCE them to
hear the heartbeat.


Where was that ever said????

Then you should have no problem with the present state of affairs.


They will not allow the woman to hear the heartbeat, they want to keep
her from hearing it because she might change her mind.

*****. You will believe anything.
.
User: "Day Brown"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 02 Sep 2006 02:47:23 AM
Be that as it may herbal abortions are now available. no appointment, no
clinic, no protestor line, no adoption sermon, no doctor, no bill, no
prescription, no problems with pharmacists, and no parental consent.
There aint a damn thing the government can do about it. The debate is over.
.
User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 02 Sep 2006 11:27:20 AM
In article <hGaKg.42$sS.89176@news.sisna.com>, Day Brown
<daybrown@wildblue.net> wrote:

Be that as it may herbal abortions are now available. no appointment, no
clinic, no protestor line, no adoption sermon, no doctor, no bill, no
prescription, no problems with pharmacists, and no parental consent.

There aint a damn thing the government can do about it. The debate is over.

And the Republicans, who promised they WOULD do something about it have
done NOTHING. Abortions are UP under Bush, were DOWN under Clinton,
and were UP under the first Bush. But the sheep continue to follow the
Republicans because they seem to be the most hateful.
.
User: "Day Brown"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 04 Sep 2006 11:29:33 PM
David W. Barnes wrote:

In article <hGaKg.42$sS.89176@news.sisna.com>, Day Brown
<daybrown@wildblue.net> wrote:


Be that as it may herbal abortions are now available. no appointment, no
clinic, no protestor line, no adoption sermon, no doctor, no bill, no
prescription, no problems with pharmacists, and no parental consent.

There aint a damn thing the government can do about it. The debate is over.



And the Republicans, who promised they WOULD do something about it have
done NOTHING. Abortions are UP under Bush, were DOWN under Clinton,
and were UP under the first Bush. But the sheep continue to follow the
Republicans because they seem to be the most hateful.

Agreed, but sheeple are not rational, so we cant expect otherwise.
.



User: ""

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 10 Sep 2006 04:07:14 AM
David W. Barnes wrote:


Then you should have no problem with the present state of affairs.


They will not allow the woman to hear the heartbeat, they want to keep
her from hearing it because she might change her mind.


*****. You will believe anything.

David,
Hi. I don't believe we've ever exchanged comments in a newsgroup
before, but please forgive me if I'm mistaken.
Irrespective of whether a woman who is considering an abortion is
allowed, encouraged, or required to hear the foetus' heartbeat, some
reports recently published indicate that mid-to-late term abortions
apparently may involve significant foetal pain.
Could you support legislation that would require foetal anesthesia in
these cases?
I really haven't done the due diligence required to confirm the
reports, but let's just say that if those reports are validated, what
would be your position on requiring physicians to administer a general
anesthetic to a mid-to-late term foetus prior to its abortion?
Lisa Lundgren
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 10 Sep 2006 12:28:47 PM
<Tolepaintingmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:


Then you should have no problem with the present state of affairs.


They will not allow the woman to hear the heartbeat, they want to keep
her from hearing it because she might change her mind.


*****. You will believe anything.


David,

Hi. I don't believe we've ever exchanged comments in a newsgroup
before, but please forgive me if I'm mistaken.

Irrespective of whether a woman who is considering an abortion is
allowed, encouraged, or required to hear the foetus' heartbeat, some
reports recently published indicate that mid-to-late term abortions
apparently may involve significant foetal pain.

Did you also see the reports that late-term abortions are exceedingly
rare and are done only for compelling medical need and are not
available except for medical need??
And no, mid-term abortions cannot cause pain because the brain isn't
sufficiently developed until about the 7th month.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 10 Sep 2006 05:55:28 PM
Ray Fischer wrote:

<Tolepaintingmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:


Then you should have no problem with the present state of affairs.


They will not allow the woman to hear the heartbeat, they want to keep
her from hearing it because she might change her mind.


*****. You will believe anything.


David,

Hi. I don't believe we've ever exchanged comments in a newsgroup
before, but please forgive me if I'm mistaken.

Irrespective of whether a woman who is considering an abortion is
allowed, encouraged, or required to hear the foetus' heartbeat, some
reports recently published indicate that mid-to-late term abortions
apparently may involve significant foetal pain.


Did you also see the reports that late-term abortions are exceedingly
rare and are done only for compelling medical need and are not
available except for medical need??

And no, mid-term abortions cannot cause pain because the brain isn't
sufficiently developed until about the 7th month.

Fair enough. Thanks.
So you would support a federal law requiring foetal anesthesia in
partial-birth abortions, rare though they might be. Right?
Lisa Lundgren
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 10 Sep 2006 09:29:10 PM
<Tolepaintingmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

<Tolepaintingmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

David W. Barnes wrote:


Then you should have no problem with the present state of affairs.


They will not allow the woman to hear the heartbeat, they want to keep
her from hearing it because she might change her mind.


*****. You will believe anything.


David,

Hi. I don't believe we've ever exchanged comments in a newsgroup
before, but please forgive me if I'm mistaken.

Irrespective of whether a woman who is considering an abortion is
allowed, encouraged, or required to hear the foetus' heartbeat, some
reports recently published indicate that mid-to-late term abortions
apparently may involve significant foetal pain.


Did you also see the reports that late-term abortions are exceedingly
rare and are done only for compelling medical need and are not
available except for medical need??

And no, mid-term abortions cannot cause pain because the brain isn't
sufficiently developed until about the 7th month.


Fair enough. Thanks.

So you would support a federal law requiring foetal anesthesia in
partial-birth abortions, rare though they might be. Right?

Since so-called "partial-birth abortions" aren't a late-term procedure
then why would the use of anesthesia be recommended?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 16 Sep 2006 03:01:06 AM
Ray Fischer wrote:

So you would support a federal law requiring foetal anesthesia in
partial-birth abortions, rare though they might be. Right?


Since so-called "partial-birth abortions" aren't a late-term procedure
then why would the use of anesthesia be recommended?

Ray,
There's no need for a partial-birth abortion in the early stages of
foetal development. The term refers mainly to IDX procedures, but also
to some D&E procedures. The "D" in both of those refers to "dilation,"
which is necessary only in late-term abortions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-birth_abortion
Do your homework next time.
Yours in Christ,
Lisa Lundgren
.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 16 Sep 2006 01:25:36 PM
<Tolepaintingmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:

So you would support a federal law requiring foetal anesthesia in
partial-birth abortions, rare though they might be. Right?


Since so-called "partial-birth abortions" aren't a late-term procedure
then why would the use of anesthesia be recommended?


There's no need for a partial-birth abortion in the early stages of
foetal development.

Where did you get your medical degree? What qualifies you to decide
other people's medical treatment?

The term refers mainly to IDX procedures, but also
to some D&E procedures. The "D" in both of those refers to "dilation,"
which is necessary only in late-term abortions.

A stupid lie. Some dilation is done in ALL abortions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-birth_abortion

There's an error in that since IDE abortions are not done late-term.
========================================================================
Dilation and Extraction for Late Second Trimester Abortion
Presented at the National Abortion Federation Risk Management Seminar,
September 13, 1992
(BY MARTIN HASKELL, M.D.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Introduction
The surgical method described in this paper differs from classic D&E in
that it does not rely upon dismemberment to remove the fetus. Nor are
inductions or infusions used to expel the intact fetus.
Rather, the surgeon grasps and removes a nearly intact fetus through an
adequately dilated cervix. The author has coined the term Dilation and
Extraction or D&X to distinguish it from dismemberment-type D&E's.
This procedure can be performed in a properly equipped physician's
office under local anesthesia. It can be used successfully in patients
20-26 weeks in pregnancy.
The author has performed over 700 of these procedures with a low rate of
complications.
Background D&E evolved as an alternative to induction or instillation
methods for second trimester abortion in the mid 1970's. This happened
in part because of lack of hospital facilities allowing second trimester
abortions in some geographic areas, in part because surgeons needed a
`right now' solution to complete
suction abortions inadvertently started in the second trimester and in
part to provide a means of early second trimester abortion to avoid
necessary delays for instillation methods. 1
The North Carolina Conference in 1978 established D&E as the preferred
method for early second trimester abortions in the U.S. 2 , 3 , 4
Footnotes at end of article.
Classic D&E is accomplished by dismembering the fetus inside the uterus
with instruments and removing the pieces through an adequately dilated
cervix. 5
However, most surgeons find dismemberment at twenty weeks and beyond to
be difficult due to the toughness of fetal tissues at this stage of
development.
Consequently, most late second trimester abortions are performed by an
induction method. 6 , 7 , 8
Two techniques of late second trimester D&E's have been described at
previous NAF meetings. The first relies on sterile urea intra-amniotic
infusion to cause fetal demise and lysis (or softening) of fetal tissues
prior to surgery. 9
The second technique is to rupture the membranes 24 hours prior to
surgery and cut the umbilical cord. Fetal death and ensuing autolysis
soften the tissues. There are attendant risks of infection with this
method.
In summary, approaches to late second trimester D&E's rely upon some
means to induce early fetal demise to soften the fetal tissues making
dismemberment easier.
Patient Selection the author routinely performs this procedure on all
patients 20 through 24 weeks LMP with certain exceptions. The author
performs the procedure on selected patients 25 through 26 weeks LMP.
The author refers for induction patients falling into the following
categories: previous C-section over 22 weeks; obese patients (more than
20 pounds over large frame ideal weight); twin pregnancy over 21 weeks;
patients 26 weeks and over.
Description of Dilation and Extraction Method
Dilation and extraction takes over three days. In a nutshell, D&X can be
described as follows: dilation; more dilation; real-time ultrasound
visualization; version (as needed); intact extraction; fetal skull
decompression; removal; clean-up; recovery.
Day 1--Dilation
The patient is evaluated with an ultrasound, hemoglobin and Rh. Hadlock
scales are used to interpret all ultrasound measurements.
In the operating room, the cervix is prepped, anesthetized and dilated
to 9-11 mm. Five, six or seven large Dilapan hydroscopic dilators are
placed in the cervix. The patient goes home or to a motel overnight.
Day 2--Dilation
The patient returns to the operating room where the previous day's
Dilapan are removed. The cervix is scrubbed and anesthetized. Between 15
and 25 Dilapan are placed in the cervical canal. The patient returns
home or to a motel overnight.
Day 3--The Operation
The patient returns to the operating room where the previous day's
Dilapan are removed. The surgical assistant administers 10 IU Pitocin
intramuscularly. The cervix is scrubbed, anesthetized and grasped with a
tenaculum. The membranes are ruptured, if they are not already.
The surgical assistant places an ultrasound probe on the patient's
abdomen and scans the fetus, locating the lower extremities. This scan
provides the surgeon information about the orientation of the fetus and
approximate location of the lower extremities. The transducer is then
held in position over the lower extremities.
The surgeon introduces a large grasping forcep, such as a Bierer or
Hern, through the vaginal and cervical canals into the corpus of the
uterus. Based upon his knowledge of fetal orientation, he moves the tip
of the instrument carefully towards the fetal lower extremities. When
the instrument appears on the sonogram screen, the surgeon is able to
open and close its jaws to firmly and reliably grasp a lower extremity.
The surgeon then applies firm traction to the instrument causing a
version of the fetus (if necessary) and pulls the extremity into the
vagina.
By observing the movement of the lower extremity and version of the
fetus on the ultrasound screen, the surgeon is assured that his
instrument has not inappropriately grasped a maternal structure.
With a lower extremity in the vagina, the surgeon uses his fingers to
deliver the opposite lower extremity, then the torso, the shoulders and
the upper extremities.
The skull lodges at the internal cervical os. Usually there is not
enough dilation for it to pass through. The fetus is oriented dorsum or
spine up.
At this point, the right-handed surgeon slides the fingers of the left
had along the back of the fetus and `hooks' the shoulders of the fetus
with the index and ring fingers (palm down). Next he slides the tip of
the middle finger along the spine towards the skull while applying
traction to the shoulders and lower extremities. The middle finger lifts
and pushes the anterior cervical lip out of the way.
While maintaining this tension, lifting the cervix and applying traction
to the shoulders with the fingers of the left hand, the surgeon takes a
pair of blunt curved Metzenbaum scissors in the right hand. He carefully
advances the tip, curved down, along the spine and under his middle
finger until he feels it contact the base of the skull under the tip of
his middle finger.
Reassessing proper placement of the closed scissors tip and safe
elevation of the cervix, the surgeon then forces the scissors into the
base of the skull or into the foramen magnum. Having safely entered the
skull, he spreads the scissors to enlarge the opening.
The surgeon removes the scissors and introduces a suction catheter into
this hole and evacuates the skull contents. With the catheter still in
place, he applies traction to the fetus, removing it completely from the
patient.
The surgeon finally removes the placenta with forceps and scrapes the
uterine walls with a large Evans and a 14 mm suction curette. The
procedure ends.
Recovery
Patients are observed a minimum of 2 hours following surgery. A pad
check and vital signs are performed every 30 minutes. Patients with
minimal bleeding after 30 minutes are encouraged to walk about the
building or outside between checks.
Intravenous fluids, pitocin and antibiotics are available for the
exceptional times they are needed.
Anesthesia Lidocaine 1% with epinephrine administered intra-cervically
is the standard anesthesia. Nitrous-oxide/oxygen analgesic is
administered nasally as an adjunct. For the Dilapan insert and Dilapan
change, 12cc's is used in 3 equidistant locations around the cervix. For
the surgery, 24cc's is used at 6 equidistant spots.
Carbocaine 1% is substituted for lidocaine for patients who expressed
lidocaine sensitivity.
Medications
All patients not allergic to tetracycline analogues receive doxycycline
200 mgm by mouth daily for 3 days beginning Day 1.
Patients with any history of gonorrhea, chlamydia or pelvic inflammatory
disease receive additional doxycycline, 100 mgm by mouth twice daily for
six additional days.
Patients allergic to tetracyclines are not given prophylactic
antibiotics.
Ergotrate 0.2 mgm by mouth four times daily for three days is dispensed
to each patient.
Pitocin 10 IU intramuscularly is administered upon removal of the
Dilapan on Day 3.
Rhogam intramuscularly is provided to all Rh negative patients on Day 3.
Ibuprofen orally is provided liberally at a rate of 100 mgm per hour

from Day 1 onward.

Patients with severe cramps with Dilapan dilation are provided Phenergan
25 mgm suppositories rectally every 4 hours as needed.
Rare patients require Synalogos DC in order to sleep during Dilapan
dilation.
Patients with a hemoglobin less than 10 g/dl prior to surgery receive
packed red blood cell transfusions.
Follow Up
All patients are given a 24 hour physician's number to call in case of a
problem or concern.
At least three attempts to contact each patient by phone one week after
surgery are made by the office staff.
All patients are asked to return for check-up three weeks following
their surgery.
Third Trimester
The author is aware of one other surgeon who uses a conceptually similar
technique. He adds additional changes of Dilapan and/or lamineria in the
48 hour dilation period. Coupled with other refinements and a slower
operating time, he performs these procedures up to 32 weeks or more. 10
Summary
In conclusion, Dilation and Extraction is an alternative method for
achieving late second trimester abortions to 26 weeks. It can be used in
the third trimester.
Among its advantages are that it is a quick, surgical outpatient method
that can be performed on a scheduled basis under local anesthesia
Among its disadvantages are that it requires a high degree of surgical
skill, and may not be appropriate for a few patients.
Footnotes
1 Cates, W. Jr., Schulz, K.F., Grimes D.A., et al: The Effects of Delay
and Method of Choice on the Risk of Abortion Morbidity, Family Planning
Perspectives, 9:266, 1977.
2 Borell, U., Emberey, M.P., Bygdeman, M., et al: Midtrimester Abortion
by Dilation and Evacuation (Letter), American Journal of Obstetrics and
Gynecology, 131:232, 1978.
3 Centers for Disease Control: Abortion Surveillance 1978, p. 30,
November, 1980.
4 Grimes, D.A., Cates, W. Jr. (Berger, G.S., et al, ed): Dilation and
Evacuation, Second Trimester Abortion--Perspectives After a Decade of
Experience, Boston, John Wright--PSG, 1981, p. 132.
5 Ibid, p. 121-128.
6 Ibid, p. 121.
7 Kerenyi, T.D. (Bergen, G.S., et al, ed): Hypertonic Saline Instillation,
Second Trimester Abortion--Perspectives After a Decade of Experience,
Boston, John Wright--PSG, 1981, p. 79.
8 Hanson, M.S. (Zatuchni, G. I., et al, ed): Midtrimester Abortion:
Dilation and Extraction Preceded by Laminaria, Pregnancy Termination
Procedures, Safety and New Developments, Hagerstown, Harper and Row,
1979, p. 192.
9 Hern, W.M., Abortion Practice, Philadelphia, J.B. Lippincott, 1990, p.
127, 144-6.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 18 Sep 2006 08:40:00 PM
Ray,
Thanks for the step-by-step on how to kill a baby.
Good job.
The dilation to which we were primarily referring, however, was the
dilation that is required for partial birth abortions.
The question I asked regarded the possibility of anesthetizing those
foetae who are sufficiently developed as to feel the pain caused by
their terminations.
The question stands, if you would like to address it.
Yours in Christ,
Lisa Lundgren
Ray Fischer wrote:

<Tolepaintingmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:


So you would support a federal law requiring foetal anesthesia in
partial-birth abortions, rare though they might be. Right?


Since so-called "partial-birth abortions" aren't a late-term procedure
then why would the use of anesthesia be recommended?


There's no need for a partial-birth abortion in the early stages of
foetal development.


Where did you get your medical degree? What qualifies you to decide
other people's medical treatment?

The term refers mainly to IDX procedures, but also
to some D&E procedures. The "D" in both of those refers to "dilation,"
which is necessary only in late-term abortions.


A stupid lie. Some dilation is done in ALL abortions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-birth_abortion


There's an error in that since IDE abortions are not done late-term.

========================================================================
Dilation and Extraction for Late Second Trimester Abortion
Presented at the National Abortion Federation Risk Management Seminar,

September 13, 1992
(BY MARTIN HASKELL, M.D.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction
The surgical method described in this paper differs from classic D&E in
that it does not rely upon dismemberment to remove the fetus. Nor are
inductions or infusions used to expel the intact fetus.

Rather, the surgeon grasps and removes a nearly intact fetus through an
adequately dilated cervix. The author has coined the term Dilation and
Extraction or D&X to distinguish it from dismemberment-type D&E's.

This procedure can be performed in a properly equipped physician's
office under local anesthesia. It can be used successfully in patients
20-26 weeks in pregnancy.

The author has performed over 700 of these procedures with a low rate of
complications.

Background D&E evolved as an alternative to induction or instillation
methods for second trimester abortion in the mid 1970's. This happened
in part because of lack of hospital facilities allowing second trimester
abortions in some geographic areas, in part because surgeons needed a
`right now' solution to complete

suction abortions inadvertently started in the second trimester and in
part to provide a means of early second trimester abortion to avoid
necessary delays for instillation methods. 1

The North Carolina Conference in 1978 established D&E as the preferred
method for early second trimester abortions in the U.S. 2 , 3 , 4

Footnotes at end of article.

Classic D&E is accomplished by dismembering the fetus inside the uterus
with instruments and removing the pieces through an adequately dilated
cervix. 5

However, most surgeons find dismemberment at twenty weeks and beyond to
be difficult due to the toughness of fetal tissues at this stage of
development.

Consequently, most late second trimester abortions are performed by an
induction method. 6 , 7 , 8

Two techniques of late second trimester D&E's have been described at
previous NAF meetings. The first relies on sterile urea intra-amniotic
infusion to cause fetal demise and lysis (or softening) of fetal tissues
prior to surgery. 9

The second technique is to rupture the membranes 24 hours prior to
surgery and cut the umbilical cord. Fetal death and ensuing autolysis
soften the tissues. There are attendant risks of infection with this
method.

In summary, approaches to late second trimester D&E's rely upon some
means to induce early fetal demise to soften the fetal tissues making
dismemberment easier.

Patient Selection the author routinely performs this procedure on all
patients 20 through 24 weeks LMP with certain exceptions. The author
performs the procedure on selected patients 25 through 26 weeks LMP.

The author refers for induction patients falling into the following
categories: previous C-section over 22 weeks; obese patients (more than
20 pounds over large frame ideal weight); twin pregnancy over 21 weeks;
patients 26 weeks and over.

Description of Dilation and Extraction Method
Dilation and extraction takes over three days. In a nutshell, D&X can be
described as follows: dilation; more dilation; real-time ultrasound
visualization; version (as needed); intact extraction; fetal skull
decompression; removal; clean-up; recovery.

Day 1--Dilation

The patient is evaluated with an ultrasound, hemoglobin and Rh. Hadlock
scales are used to interpret all ultrasound measurements.

In the operating room, the cervix is prepped, anesthetized and dilated
to 9-11 mm. Five, six or seven large Dilapan hydroscopic dilators are
placed in the cervix. The patient goes home or to a motel overnight.

Day 2--Dilation

The patient returns to the operating room where the previous day's
Dilapan are removed. The cervix is scrubbed and anesthetized. Between 15
and 25 Dilapan are placed in the cervical canal. The patient returns
home or to a motel overnight.

Day 3--The Operation

The patient returns to the operating room where the previous day's
Dilapan are removed. The surgical assistant administers 10 IU Pitocin
intramuscularly. The cervix is scrubbed, anesthetized and grasped with a
tenaculum. The membranes are ruptured, if they are not already.

The surgical assistant places an ultrasound probe on the patient's
abdomen and scans the fetus, locating the lower extremities. This scan
provides the surgeon information about the orientation of the fetus and
approximate location of the lower extremities. The transducer is then
held in position over the lower extremities.

The surgeon introduces a large grasping forcep, such as a Bierer or
Hern, through the vaginal and cervical canals into the corpus of the
uterus. Based upon his knowledge of fetal orientation, he moves the tip
of the instrument carefully towards the fetal lower extremities. When
the instrument appears on the sonogram screen, the surgeon is able to
open and close its jaws to firmly and reliably grasp a lower extremity.
The surgeon then applies firm traction to the instrument causing a
version of the fetus (if necessary) and pulls the extremity into the
vagina.

By observing the movement of the lower extremity and version of the
fetus on the ultrasound screen, the surgeon is assured that his
instrument has not inappropriately grasped a maternal structure.

With a lower extremity in the vagina, the surgeon uses his fingers to
deliver the opposite lower extremity, then the torso, the shoulders and
the upper extremities.

The skull lodges at the internal cervical os. Usually there is not
enough dilation for it to pass through. The fetus is oriented dorsum or
spine up.

At this point, the right-handed surgeon slides the fingers of the left
had along the back of the fetus and `hooks' the shoulders of the fetus
with the index and ring fingers (palm down). Next he slides the tip of
the middle finger along the spine towards the skull while applying
traction to the shoulders and lower extremities. The middle finger lifts
and pushes the anterior cervical lip out of the way.

While maintaining this tension, lifting the cervix and applying traction
to the shoulders with the fingers of the left hand, the surgeon takes a
pair of blunt curved Metzenbaum scissors in the right hand. He carefully
advances the tip, curved down, along the spine and under his middle
finger until he feels it contact the base of the skull under the tip of
his middle finger.

Reassessing proper placement of the closed scissors tip and safe
elevation of the cervix, the surgeon then forces the scissors into the
base of the skull or into the foramen magnum. Having safely entered the
skull, he spreads the scissors to enlarge the opening.

The surgeon removes the scissors and introduces a suction catheter into
this hole and evacuates the skull contents. With the catheter still in
place, he applies traction to the fetus, removing it completely from the
patient.

The surgeon finally removes the placenta with forceps and scrapes the
uterine walls with a large Evans and a 14 mm suction curette. The
procedure ends.

Recovery

Patients are observed a minimum of 2 hours following surgery. A pad
check and vital signs are performed every 30 minutes. Patients with
minimal bleeding after 30 minutes are encouraged to walk about the
building or outside between checks.

Intravenous fluids, pitocin and antibiotics are available for the
exceptional times they are needed.

Anesthesia Lidocaine 1% with epinephrine administered intra-cervically
is the standard anesthesia. Nitrous-oxide/oxygen analgesic is
administered nasally as an adjunct. For the Dilapan insert and Dilapan
change, 12cc's is used in 3 equidistant locations around the cervix. For
the surgery, 24cc's is used at 6 equidistant spots.

Carbocaine 1% is substituted for lidocaine for patients who expressed
lidocaine sensitivity.

Medications
All patients not allergic to tetracycline analogues receive doxycycline
200 mgm by mouth daily for 3 days beginning Day 1.

Patients with any history of gonorrhea, chlamydia or pelvic inflammatory
disease receive additional doxycycline, 100 mgm by mouth twice daily for
six additional days.

Patients allergic to tetracyclines are not given prophylactic
antibiotics.

Ergotrate 0.2 mgm by mouth four times daily for three days is dispensed
to each patient.

Pitocin 10 IU intramuscularly is administered upon removal of the
Dilapan on Day 3.

Rhogam intramuscularly is provided to all Rh negative patients on Day 3.
Ibuprofen orally is provided liberally at a rate of 100 mgm per hour

from Day 1 onward.


Patients with severe cramps with Dilapan dilation are provided Phenergan
25 mgm suppositories rectally every 4 hours as needed.

Rare patients require Synalogos DC in order to sleep during Dilapan
dilation.

Patients with a hemoglobin less than 10 g/dl prior to surgery receive
packed red blood cell transfusions.

Follow Up
All patients are given a 24 hour physician's number to call in case of a
problem or concern.

At least three attempts to contact each patient by phone one week after
surgery are made by the office staff.

All patients are asked to return for check-up three weeks following
their surgery.

Third Trimester
The author is aware of one other surgeon who uses a conceptually similar
technique. He adds additional changes of Dilapan and/or lamineria in the
48 hour dilation period. Coupled with other refinements and a slower
operating time, he performs these procedures up to 32 weeks or more. 10

Summary
In conclusion, Dilation and Extraction is an alternative method for
achieving late second trimester abortions to 26 weeks. It can be used in
the third trimester.

Among its advantages are that it is a quick, surgical outpatient method
that can be performed on a scheduled basis under local anesthesia

Among its disadvantages are that it requires a high degree of surgical
skill, and may not be appropriate for a few patients.

Footnotes
1 Cates, W. Jr., Schulz, K.F., Grimes D.A., et al: The Effects of Delay
and Method of Choice on the Risk of Abortion Morbidity, Family Planning
Perspectives, 9:266, 1977.

2 Borell, U., Emberey, M.P., Bygdeman, M., et al: Midtrimester Abortion
by Dilation and Evacuation (Letter), American Journal of Obstetrics and
Gynecology, 131:232, 1978.

3 Centers for Disease Control: Abortion Surveillance 1978, p. 30,
November, 1980.

4 Grimes, D.A., Cates, W. Jr. (Berger, G.S., et al, ed): Dilation and
Evacuation, Second Trimester Abortion--Perspectives After a Decade of
Experience, Boston, John Wright--PSG, 1981, p. 132.

5 Ibid, p. 121-128.

6 Ibid, p. 121.

7 Kerenyi, T.D. (Bergen, G.S., et al, ed): Hypertonic Saline Instillation,
Second Trimester Abortion--Perspectives After a Decade of Experience,
Boston, John Wright--PSG, 1981, p. 79.

8 Hanson, M.S. (Zatuchni, G. I., et al, ed): Midtrimester Abortion:
Dilation and Extraction Preceded by Laminaria, Pregnancy Termination
Procedures, Safety and New Developments, Hagerstown, Harper and Row,
1979, p. 192.

9 Hern, W.M., Abortion Practice, Philadelphia, J.B. Lippincott, 1990, p.
127, 144-6.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

.
User: "Ray Fischer"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 19 Sep 2006 01:57:13 AM
<Tolepaintingmom@yahoo.com> wrote:


Ray,

Thanks for the step-by-step on how to kill a baby.

I posted nothing baout killing babies, pro-liar.

The dilation to which we were primarily referring, however, was the
dilation that is required for partial birth abortions.

Minima,.

The question I asked regarded the possibility of anesthetizing those
foetae who are sufficiently developed as to feel the pain caused by
their terminations.

Already explained. Pay attention.

The question stands, if you would like to address it.

Yours in Christ,

Don't give me that crap, you lying bigot. I can see your hatred
and it does not come from Christ.

Ray Fischer wrote:

<Tolepaintingmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ray Fischer wrote:


So you would support a federal law requiring foetal anesthesia in
partial-birth abortions, rare though they might be. Right?


Since so-called "partial-birth abortions" aren't a late-term procedure
then why would the use of anesthesia be recommended?


There's no need for a partial-birth abortion in the early stages of
foetal development.


Where did you get your medical degree? What qualifies you to decide
other people's medical treatment?

The term refers mainly to IDX procedures, but also
to some D&E procedures. The "D" in both of those refers to "dilation,"
which is necessary only in late-term abortions.


A stupid lie. Some dilation is done in ALL abortions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-birth_abortion


There's an error in that since IDE abortions are not done late-term.

========================================================================
Dilation and Extraction for Late Second Trimester Abortion
Presented at the National Abortion Federation Risk Management Seminar,

September 13, 1992
(BY MARTIN HASKELL, M.D.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction
The surgical method described in this paper differs from classic D&E in
that it does not rely upon dismemberment to remove the fetus. Nor are
inductions or infusions used to expel the intact fetus.

Rather, the surgeon grasps and removes a nearly intact fetus through an
adequately dilated cervix. The author has coined the term Dilation and
Extraction or D&X to distinguish it from dismemberment-type D&E's.

This procedure can be performed in a properly equipped physician's
office under local anesthesia. It can be used successfully in patients
20-26 weeks in pregnancy.

The author has performed over 700 of these procedures with a low rate of
complications.

Background D&E evolved as an alternative to induction or instillation
methods for second trimester abortion in the mid 1970's. This happened
in part because of lack of hospital facilities allowing second trimester
abortions in some geographic areas, in part because surgeons needed a
`right now' solution to complete

suction abortions inadvertently started in the second trimester and in
part to provide a means of early second trimester abortion to avoid
necessary delays for instillation methods. 1

The North Carolina Conference in 1978 established D&E as the preferred
method for early second trimester abortions in the U.S. 2 , 3 , 4

Footnotes at end of article.

Classic D&E is accomplished by dismembering the fetus inside the uterus
with instruments and removing the pieces through an adequately dilated
cervix. 5

However, most surgeons find dismemberment at twenty weeks and beyond to
be difficult due to the toughness of fetal tissues at this stage of
development.

Consequently, most late second trimester abortions are performed by an
induction method. 6 , 7 , 8

Two techniques of late second trimester D&E's have been described at
previous NAF meetings. The first relies on sterile urea intra-amniotic
infusion to cause fetal demise and lysis (or softening) of fetal tissues
prior to surgery. 9

The second technique is to rupture the membranes 24 hours prior to
surgery and cut the umbilical cord. Fetal death and ensuing autolysis
soften the tissues. There are attendant risks of infection with this
method.

In summary, approaches to late second trimester D&E's rely upon some
means to induce early fetal demise to soften the fetal tissues making
dismemberment easier.

Patient Selection the author routinely performs this procedure on all
patients 20 through 24 weeks LMP with certain exceptions. The author
performs the procedure on selected patients 25 through 26 weeks LMP.

The author refers for induction patients falling into the following
categories: previous C-section over 22 weeks; obese patients (more than
20 pounds over large frame ideal weight); twin pregnancy over 21 weeks;
patients 26 weeks and over.

Description of Dilation and Extraction Method
Dilation and extraction takes over three days. In a nutshell, D&X can be
described as follows: dilation; more dilation; real-time ultrasound
visualization; version (as needed); intact extraction; fetal skull
decompression; removal; clean-up; recovery.

Day 1--Dilation

The patient is evaluated with an ultrasound, hemoglobin and Rh. Hadlock
scales are used to interpret all ultrasound measurements.

In the operating room, the cervix is prepped, anesthetized and dilated
to 9-11 mm. Five, six or seven large Dilapan hydroscopic dilators are
placed in the cervix. The patient goes home or to a motel overnight.

Day 2--Dilation

The patient returns to the operating room where the previous day's
Dilapan are removed. The cervix is scrubbed and anesthetized. Between 15
and 25 Dilapan are placed in the cervical canal. The patient returns
home or to a motel overnight.

Day 3--The Operation

The patient returns to the operating room where the previous day's
Dilapan are removed. The surgical assistant administers 10 IU Pitocin
intramuscularly. The cervix is scrubbed, anesthetized and grasped with a
tenaculum. The membranes are ruptured, if they are not already.

The surgical assistant places an ultrasound probe on the patient's
abdomen and scans the fetus, locating the lower extremities. This scan
provides the surgeon information about the orientation of the fetus and
approximate location of the lower extremities. The transducer is then
held in position over the lower extremities.

The surgeon introduces a large grasping forcep, such as a Bierer or
Hern, through the vaginal and cervical canals into the corpus of the
uterus. Based upon his knowledge of fetal orientation, he moves the tip
of the instrument carefully towards the fetal lower extremities. When
the instrument appears on the sonogram screen, the surgeon is able to
open and close its jaws to firmly and reliably grasp a lower extremity.
The surgeon then applies firm traction to the instrument causing a
version of the fetus (if necessary) and pulls the extremity into the
vagina.

By observing the movement of the lower extremity and version of the
fetus on the ultrasound screen, the surgeon is assured that his
instrument has not inappropriately grasped a maternal structure.

With a lower extremity in the vagina, the surgeon uses his fingers to
deliver the opposite lower extremity, then the torso, the shoulders and
the upper extremities.

The skull lodges at the internal cervical os. Usually there is not
enough dilation for it to pass through. The fetus is oriented dorsum or
spine up.

At this point, the right-handed surgeon slides the fingers of the left
had along the back of the fetus and `hooks' the shoulders of the fetus
with the index and ring fingers (palm down). Next he slides the tip of
the middle finger along the spine towards the skull while applying
traction to the shoulders and lower extremities. The middle finger lifts
and pushes the anterior cervical lip out of the way.

While maintaining this tension, lifting the cervix and applying traction
to the shoulders with the fingers of the left hand, the surgeon takes a
pair of blunt curved Metzenbaum scissors in the right hand. He carefully
advances the tip, curved down, along the spine and under his middle
finger until he feels it contact the base of the skull under the tip of
his middle finger.

Reassessing proper placement of the closed scissors tip and safe
elevation of the cervix, the surgeon then forces the scissors into the
base of the skull or into the foramen magnum. Having safely entered the
skull, he spreads the scissors to enlarge the opening.

The surgeon removes the scissors and introduces a suction catheter into
this hole and evacuates the skull contents. With the catheter still in
place, he applies traction to the fetus, removing it completely from the
patient.

The surgeon finally removes the placenta with forceps and scrapes the
uterine walls with a large Evans and a 14 mm suction curette. The
procedure ends.

Recovery

Patients are observed a minimum of 2 hours following surgery. A pad
check and vital signs are performed every 30 minutes. Patients with
minimal bleeding after 30 minutes are encouraged to walk about the
building or outside between checks.

Intravenous fluids, pitocin and antibiotics are available for the
exceptional times they are needed.

Anesthesia Lidocaine 1% with epinephrine administered intra-cervically
is the standard anesthesia. Nitrous-oxide/oxygen analgesic is
administered nasally as an adjunct. For the Dilapan insert and Dilapan
change, 12cc's is used in 3 equidistant locations around the cervix. For
the surgery, 24cc's is used at 6 equidistant spots.

Carbocaine 1% is substituted for lidocaine for patients who expressed
lidocaine sensitivity.

Medications
All patients not allergic to tetracycline analogues receive doxycycline
200 mgm by mouth daily for 3 days beginning Day 1.

Patients with any history of gonorrhea, chlamydia or pelvic inflammatory
disease receive additional doxycycline, 100 mgm by mouth twice daily for
six additional days.

Patients allergic to tetracyclines are not given prophylactic
antibiotics.

Ergotrate 0.2 mgm by mouth four times daily for three days is dispensed
to each patient.

Pitocin 10 IU intramuscularly is administered upon removal of the
Dilapan on Day 3.

Rhogam intramuscularly is provided to all Rh negative patients on Day 3.
Ibuprofen orally is provided liberally at a rate of 100 mgm per hour

from Day 1 onward.


Patients with severe cramps with Dilapan dilation are provided Phenergan
25 mgm suppositories rectally every 4 hours as needed.

Rare patients require Synalogos DC in order to sleep during Dilapan
dilation.

Patients with a hemoglobin less than 10 g/dl prior to surgery receive
packed red blood cell transfusions.

Follow Up
All patients are given a 24 hour physician's number to call in case of a
problem or concern.

At least three attempts to contact each patient by phone one week after
surgery are made by the office staff.

All patients are asked to return for check-up three weeks following
their surgery.

Third Trimester
The author is aware of one other surgeon who uses a conceptually similar
technique. He adds additional changes of Dilapan and/or lamineria in the
48 hour dilation period. Coupled with other refinements and a slower
operating time, he performs these procedures up to 32 weeks or more. 10

Summary
In conclusion, Dilation and Extraction is an alternative method for
achieving late second trimester abortions to 26 weeks. It can be used in
the third trimester.

Among its advantages are that it is a quick, surgical outpatient method
that can be performed on a scheduled basis under local anesthesia

Among its disadvantages are that it requires a high degree of surgical
skill, and may not be appropriate for a few patients.

Footnotes
1 Cates, W. Jr., Schulz, K.F., Grimes D.A., et al: The Effects of Delay
and Method of Choice on the Risk of Abortion Morbidity, Family Planning
Perspectives, 9:266, 1977.

2 Borell, U., Emberey, M.P., Bygdeman, M., et al: Midtrimester Abortion
by Dilation and Evacuation (Letter), American Journal of Obstetrics and
Gynecology, 131:232, 1978.

3 Centers for Disease Control: Abortion Surveillance 1978, p. 30,
November, 1980.

4 Grimes, D.A., Cates, W. Jr. (Berger, G.S., et al, ed): Dilation and
Evacuation, Second Trimester Abortion--Perspectives After a Decade of
Experience, Boston, John Wright--PSG, 1981, p. 132.

5 Ibid, p. 121-128.

6 Ibid, p. 121.

7 Kerenyi, T.D. (Bergen, G.S., et al, ed): Hypertonic Saline Instillation,
Second Trimester Abortion--Perspectives After a Decade of Experience,
Boston, John Wright--PSG, 1981, p. 79.

8 Hanson, M.S. (Zatuchni, G. I., et al, ed): Midtrimester Abortion:
Dilation and Extraction Preceded by Laminaria, Pregnancy Termination
Procedures, Safety and New Developments, Hagerstown, Harper and Row,
1979, p. 192.

9 Hern, W.M., Abortion Practice, Philadelphia, J.B. Lippincott, 1990, p.
127, 144-6.

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net


--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
User: "Day Brown"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 19 Sep 2006 08:13:48 PM
Be that as it may, some witches and midwives go for walks, an in summer
collect Claviceps Purpurea off wild grasses like Paspalum and Lolium.
Commonly known as 'ergot', it has been used for millennia by midwives to
create *strong* contractions during delivery.
Of course, ergot will do this any time. 1st, 2nd, or 3rd trimester, and
result in an official "miscarriage". But it is nevertheless, abortion on
demand. No appointment, no clinic, no adoption sermon, no protestor
line, no doctor, no bill, no prescription or problems with pharmacists,
and no parental consent.
The abortion debate is over. The government does not have the *power* to
make effective rules.
.






User: "David W. Barnes"

Title: Re: Women Want to Know of Abortion Risks Beforehand, New Survey Shows 10 Sep 2006 06:07:22 PM