| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"crack baby" |
| Date: |
23 Sep 2006 12:30:21 PM |
| Object: |
*-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
Here in California we are going to vote on Proposition 86 which
would levy a new $2.60 tax on packs of cigarettes. I despise
tobacco but am going to vote against it because the revenues
would be used for stuff not related to smoking at all (e.g.
children's health care), and because a coalition of religious
groups publically endorsed the measure.
Churches have no business sticking their self-righteous noses
into politics. It's bad enough churches get away with
endorsing candidates or ballot measures in general, but to
think that an organization that pays no taxes at all should
have the audacity to not only violate tax-exempt status rules
(which require churches to stick to religion if they wish to
avoid taxation), but to use its tax-free revenues to promote
a tax that everyone but them has to pay is outrageous.
I like Mexico's constitution, it limits church property to the
church building and immediate grounds only, and also prohibits
church officials from speaking about politics in church or
in religious publications or broadcasts. Priests, nuns, etc.
were even denied the right to vote (not that it mattered, since
all Mexican elections are rigged).
Maybe we should enforce the American revolutionary principle of
"no taxation without representation" by defining it to also
mean "no representation without taxation." If the church wishes
to participate in the political process, it can pay taxes just
like the rest of us, otherwise it should shut the ***** up.
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| User: "Vernon athere@athere" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
23 Sep 2006 03:29:47 PM |
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"crack baby" <crack@backdoho.net> wrote in message
news:NaeRg.4073$TV3.2841@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Here in California we are going to vote on Proposition 86 which
would levy a new $2.60 tax on packs of cigarettes. I despise
tobacco but am going to vote against it because the revenues
would be used for stuff not related to smoking at all (e.g.
children's health care), and because a coalition of religious
groups publically endorsed the measure.
Churches have no business sticking their self-righteous noses
into politics.
It is EVERY BIT their business.
They just should not be tax exempt if they get into it.
SOOOOO
They forget teaching morals so they can keep tax exempt status.
Yes they can be wrong, but so can everyone else.
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| User: "crack baby" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
24 Sep 2006 03:28:04 PM |
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Vernon wrote...
Churches have no business sticking their self-righteous noses
into politics.
It is EVERY BIT their business.
Why? What does the bible teach about smoking? What was Jebus'
opinion on tobacco use and where in the New Testament did he
specify a recommended tobacco tax rate?
They just should not be tax exempt if they get into it.
They shouldn't be tax exempt at all. And if the government isn't
allowed to meddle in church affairs, churches shouldn't meddle in
government affairs.
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| User: "Vernon athere@athere" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
24 Sep 2006 04:07:57 PM |
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"crack baby" <crack@backdoho.net> wrote in message
news:oTBRg.7742$Ij.962@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Vernon wrote...
Churches have no business sticking their self-righteous noses
into politics.
It is EVERY BIT their business.
Why? What does the bible teach about smoking? What was Jebus'
opinion on tobacco use and where in the New Testament did he
specify a recommended tobacco tax rate?
He said to give taxes where levied, unconditionally.
The bible says your body is the temple, take care of it.
And before you think you are super cognative, that would include being fat,
excess alcohol (not none).
In a democracry (for the short time we will continue to have a
representative government) we get to choose.
BTW spending tax money to combat tobacco is sensless. If it is bad, just
make it prescription. IF they collect taxes, spend it on something
CONSTRUCTIVE (fat chance). Better yet have NO prescriptions, and give
people the freedom to kill themselves as they wish, just don't then decide
to give the offenders free medical care.
Yes, the WORST investment is on a failing education system.
The public gets the most return for their money when the government puts the
money into research. Every dollar spent in NASA has returned thru business
by about 100 fold.
There is NO commodity, NONE thatyou or I use that is not a direct or near
direct result of programs such as that or very similar.
Yes, get the government out of personal decisions. THAT is the best way to
keep the churches out of government decisions.
I don't smoke and I drink very seldom, and don't even think of doing drugs,
BUT that is MY decision, not the government's.
I WILL say that anyone causing harm to another, intentionaly or
unintentionaly, because of their action should pay and pay big. Of course
that would include companies. That's where the government might step in.
They just should not be tax exempt if they get into it.
They shouldn't be tax exempt at all. And if the government isn't
allowed to meddle in church affairs, churches shouldn't meddle in
government affairs.
That was my point DDUUUUHHHH.
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| User: "Delila" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
24 Sep 2006 07:24:20 PM |
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"Vernon" <athere@athere> wrote in message
news:4516f3a6$0$23943$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com...
Yes, get the government out of personal decisions. THAT is the best way
to keep the churches out of government decisions.
I don't smoke and I drink very seldom, and don't even think of doing
drugs, BUT that is MY decision, not the government's.
I WILL say that anyone causing harm to another, intentionaly or
unintentionaly, because of their action should pay and pay big. Of course
that would include companies. That's where the government might step in.
Oh, so you want it both ways.
D.
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| User: "Vernon athere@athere" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
25 Sep 2006 09:00:30 AM |
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"Delila" <WATERTIGER9NO@SPAMpeoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:UkFRg.5822$UG4.4685@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Vernon" <athere@athere> wrote in message
news:4516f3a6$0$23943$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com...
Yes, get the government out of personal decisions. THAT is the best way
to keep the churches out of government decisions.
I don't smoke and I drink very seldom, and don't even think of doing
drugs, BUT that is MY decision, not the government's.
I WILL say that anyone causing harm to another, intentionaly or
unintentionaly, because of their action should pay and pay big. Of
course that would include companies. That's where the government might
step in.
Oh, so you want it both ways.
O.K. Over your head.
If you murder someone, you don't think society has a right to eliminate you?
If you steal, you don't think that neighbors (the government) should get it
back and the thief punished?
If someone feeds you poison and says its good food, that's fine?
Now, if a person leaves a bottle of gin where you can get it and you die of
overdose, that's THEIR problem.
Yes, I know it's complicated and no one should leave poison out where the
retarded, such as yourself can get it.
Non-government
What I do to myself of my own free will.
Educational systems (propaganda machines)
What I eat or drink.
My life "style"
Special privileges to certain members such as married couples, blacks,
whites.
Speed limits
Government
"""National""" defense that requires more than individual efforts.
Removing those who damage OTHERS. I.E. steal, maim, cause damage by
speeding, kill. (No such thing as a simple fine)
If a local body (note local) wishes to hire body guards / monitors (police),
fine.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
24 Sep 2006 09:43:24 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:28:04 GMT, crack baby <crack@backdoho.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <oTBRg.7742$Ij.962@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Vernon wrote...
Churches have no business sticking their self-righteous noses
into politics.
It is EVERY BIT their business.
Why? What does the bible teach about smoking? What was Jebus'
opinion on tobacco use and where in the New Testament did he
specify a recommended tobacco tax rate?
The Gospel of Saint Rothman, CH3, vs 16 - 22.
They just should not be tax exempt if they get into it.
They shouldn't be tax exempt at all. And if the government isn't
allowed to meddle in church affairs, churches shouldn't meddle in
government affairs.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
23 Sep 2006 05:52:28 PM |
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On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:30:21 GMT, crack baby <crack@backdoho.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <NaeRg.4073$TV3.2841@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Here in California we are going to vote on Proposition 86 which
would levy a new $2.60 tax on packs of cigarettes. I despise
tobacco but am going to vote against it because the revenues
would be used for stuff not related to smoking at all (e.g.
children's health care),
Yeah, it would be truly evil to spend tax revenue on such frivolous
things as "child health care"!
What planet are you on?
and because a coalition of religious
groups publically endorsed the measure.
Churches have no business sticking their self-righteous noses
into politics. It's bad enough churches get away with
endorsing candidates or ballot measures in general, but to
think that an organization that pays no taxes at all should
have the audacity to not only violate tax-exempt status rules
(which require churches to stick to religion if they wish to
avoid taxation), but to use its tax-free revenues to promote
a tax that everyone but them has to pay is outrageous.
I like Mexico's constitution, it limits church property to the
church building and immediate grounds only, and also prohibits
church officials from speaking about politics in church or
in religious publications or broadcasts. Priests, nuns, etc.
were even denied the right to vote (not that it mattered, since
all Mexican elections are rigged).
As are US elections.
Maybe we should enforce the American revolutionary principle of
"no taxation without representation" by defining it to also
mean "no representation without taxation." If the church wishes
to participate in the political process, it can pay taxes just
like the rest of us, otherwise it should shut the ***** up.
So, you have to "pay" hard cash for the right to "free" speech?
Why do you hide behind a ridiculous false name?
You should run for the Republican Reich.
.
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| User: "crack baby" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
24 Sep 2006 03:33:43 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote...
So, you have to "pay" hard cash for the right to "free" speech?
Why do you hide behind a ridiculous false name?
You should run for the Republican Reich.
I hate rightards. And "free" speech means there are no restrictions
on that speech, but if I wish to raise money to advertise my message
then that money is income and must be taxed. If I raise a million
dollars to oppose the tobacco tax then the million dollars is taxed
leaving me with perhaps only $750,000 to advertise my anti-tax
position. The church next door also raises a million dollars but its
million dollars is not taxed and thus it can spend $1,000,000 or 25%
more, so the church's speech has been subsidized at my expense.
.
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| User: "Vernon athere@athere" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
24 Sep 2006 04:12:25 PM |
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"crack baby" <crack@backdoho.net> wrote in message
news:HYBRg.7743$Ij.6087@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Michael Gray wrote...
So, you have to "pay" hard cash for the right to "free" speech?
Why do you hide behind a ridiculous false name?
You should run for the Republican Reich.
I hate rightards. And "free" speech means there are no restrictions
on that speech, but if I wish to raise money to advertise my message
then that money is income and must be taxed. If I raise a million
dollars to oppose the tobacco tax then the million dollars is taxed
leaving me with perhaps only $750,000 to advertise my anti-tax
position. The church next door also raises a million dollars but its
million dollars is not taxed and thus it can spend $1,000,000 or 25%
more, so the church's speech has been subsidized at my expense.
Neither knows what "right" or "left" is, nor "conservative" or "liberal",
just like to blurt out names in the hope that someone will be an ally or
offended.
The first sentence of the above post says it ALL "I HATE--"
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| User: "crack baby" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
25 Sep 2006 04:49:36 AM |
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Vernon wrote...
Neither knows what "right" or "left" is, nor "conservative" or "liberal",
just like to blurt out names in the hope that someone will be an ally or
offended.
The first sentence of the above post says it ALL "I HATE--"
I still do hate rightards and leftists. But it was amusing to hear me
accused of being a rightarded member of the "Republican Reich" for
suggesting that churches have no right to involve themselves in the
political process. On the contrary, the Republicans are the biggest
supporters of allowing churches to interfere in politics, and the only
time they ever oppose it is when leftist churches do it (e.g. how some
churches face revocation of tax-exempt status for their opposition to
the Iraq war, while rightist churches who support the war are invited
to the White House for the annual prayer breakfast).
.
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| User: "Vernon athere@athere" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
25 Sep 2006 09:02:45 AM |
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"crack baby" <crack@backdoho.net> wrote in message
news:QCNRg.7881$Ij.2381@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Vernon wrote...
Neither knows what "right" or "left" is, nor "conservative" or "liberal",
just like to blurt out names in the hope that someone will be an ally or
offended.
The first sentence of the above post says it ALL "I HATE--"
"I still do hate "
Says everything that needs be said.
All rationality eliminated or negated with those words.
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| User: "crack baby" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
29 Sep 2006 09:49:41 AM |
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Vernon wrote...
"I still do hate "
Says everything that needs be said.
All rationality eliminated or negated with those words.
Okay, how about rightards irritate the hell out of me? I subscribe to
Marilyn Manson's cry of "we hate love...we love hate" so I hate lots
of stuff. To me rightards and leftists are pretty much the same thing,
mindless rabble with no critical thinking skills who parrot whatever
some radio show host has to say. The leftards can be amusing, but the
rightards are downright scary.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Katharine was a tall, fair-haired girl, very straight, with splendid
movements. She had a bold, aquiline face, a face that one might have
called noble until one discovered that there was as nearly as possible
nothing behind it. Very early in her married life he had decided -
though perhaps it was only that he knew her more intimately than he knew
most people - that she had without exception the most stupid, vulgar,
empty mind that he had ever encountered. She had not a thought in her
head that was not a slogan, and there was no imbecility, absolutely none
that she was not capable of swallowing if the Party handed it out to
her. 'The human sound-track' he nicknamed her in his own mind."
-- 1984
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Vernon athere@athere" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
29 Sep 2006 11:22:48 AM |
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"crack baby" <crack@backdoho.net> wrote in message
news:9oaTg.6490$e66.3429@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Vernon wrote...
"I still do hate "
Says everything that needs be said.
All rationality eliminated or negated with those words.
Okay, how about rightards irritate the hell out of me?
"rightards"
hmmm
You are so full of propaganda and hate it is unbelievable.
The last time I heard that sentiment was from the head of the German left
(Socialist) party. His name? Hitler.
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| User: "Vernon athere@athere" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
25 Sep 2006 09:01:17 AM |
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"crack baby" <crack@backdoho.net> wrote in message
news:QCNRg.7881$Ij.2381@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
Vernon wrote...
Neither knows what "right" or "left" is, nor "conservative" or "liberal",
just like to blurt out names in the hope that someone will be an ally or
offended.
The first sentence of the above post says it ALL "I HATE--"
I still do hate rightards and leftists. But it was amusing to hear me
accused of being a rightarded member of the "Republican Reich" for
suggesting that churches have no right to involve themselves in the
political process. On the contrary, the Republicans are the biggest
supporters of allowing churches to interfere in politics, and the only
time they ever oppose it is when leftist churches do it (e.g. how some
churches face revocation of tax-exempt status for their opposition to
the Iraq war, while rightist churches who support the war are invited
to the White House for the annual prayer breakfast).
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: *-*-*--> Untaxed churches endorse tobacco tax... |
24 Sep 2006 09:44:14 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 20:33:43 GMT, crack baby <crack@backdoho.net>
wrote:
- Refer: <HYBRg.7743$Ij.6087@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
Michael Gray wrote...
So, you have to "pay" hard cash for the right to "free" speech?
Why do you hide behind a ridiculous false name?
You should run for the Republican Reich.
I hate rightards. And "free" speech means there are no restrictions
on that speech, but if I wish to raise money to advertise my message
then that money is income and must be taxed. If I raise a million
dollars to oppose the tobacco tax then the million dollars is taxed
leaving me with perhaps only $750,000 to advertise my anti-tax
position. The church next door also raises a million dollars but its
million dollars is not taxed and thus it can spend $1,000,000 or 25%
more, so the church's speech has been subsidized at my expense.
You still appear to have double standards, mate.
.
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