m aa#2115----:
I was a fervent Christian from my teens until my mid-40's, if that's
what you mean.

yjk---:
GOD/Jesus show HIS existence through HIS creatures.

I wish you found clues soon.

yjk---:
Jesus/GOD said HE would never leave us alone.

m aa#2115----:
According to Acts 1:9-11, Jesus left us about 40 days after his
"resurrection" and hasn't been seen since. The reason Christians are
waiting for him to return is because he left. Never mind the
invisible baby-sitters, *he* is gone and no one has seen him in about
2,000 years.

yjk---:
Let us exercise our common sense.
When Jesus was in human form, He was so limited to space and time.
He could be at one place at a time.
But when He is in Spiritual form, He can be everywhere all time.
All of us can call Jesus at same time.
This is heavy.

m aa#2115----:
How can anyone know what the love of God is, if he never shows up to
give us a sample? But I have studied the Bible extensively, so I know
that the above does give an honest, if unflattering, summary of how I
could behave in a manner that parallels how Jesus has behaved towards
us.

yjk---:
Do you want to touch HIM?

m aa#2115----:
Absentee bosses do make lousy supervisors, don't they? Maybe if God
showed up and told us what he wanted once in a while? I don't mean
just following books that men wrote and marketed as being "inspired"
and "God's revealed word." Let's get some guidelines from God
himself, assuming he has any he wants us to follow.

yjk---:
You do not know the power of GOD.

Nothing is impossible for HIM.

Don't you think HE has power to keep HIS words straight no matter how
many human beings mess up HIS Book?
Especially to ones seeking the Truth.
GOD can keep HIS Holy Book right.

yjk---:
You know, "love" is not "trying".

m aa#2115----:
Apparently, in Christ's case, love isn't "showing" either. Or at
least not showing up.

yjk---:
I guess you do not consider phone call as sign of love.

m aa#2115----:
Don't worry, I wouldn't *really* treat my wife as bad as Christ treats
his bride. ;-)

yjk---:
Are you the one deciding or your wife deciding that you are good
enough?

Bottom line is Christians are happier than atheists are.

m aa#2115----:
Sure, the lower you set your standards, the easier you are to please.
But are you *really* happy that you can't have any tangible,
face-to-face interactions with God? You know, the kind you could
actually videotape and show people and say, "Here's me and God, having
a nice quiet chat together"? Don't you long for the kind of contact
that goes beyond the mere subjective, vague impressions that even
heretics have and mistake for the presence and approval of God? Don't
you crave his actual, tangible presence the way I did (and in fact
still do, even though I no longer think such a thing is possible)?
Have you *really* loved him as ardently as I have? If you had, I
don't think you would be *entirely* satisfied with the way things are
now.

yjk---:
Flowers withers but GOD stays fresh, HIS words never change.
Your physical body getting older by everyday. Have you noticed?

m aa#2115----:
Pie in the sky by and by. He keeps you waiting, doesn't he. If you
knew the difference between man's word and God's word, you'd
understand why. ;-)

yjk---:
This is hope versus no hope.
Do you feel much better since you gave up hope?

One fine day in alt.atheism, yjk fired a few neurons and wrote

yjk---:

Bottom line is Christians are happier than atheists are.

Do you mean that generally, one-to-one, or that the most unhappy christian
is happier than the happiest atheist? You do realize, of course, the
christian inbred bigotry of that statement, don't you?

You do not know many athiests personally. You do not know me personally.
What gives you the authority to make that statement and call it truth?

(It starts with B-I-B-L)

Always has something to look forward to.

Too bad what you look forward to doesn't really exist.

<snip>

m aa#2115----:

Now I hear, indirectly, that many of my dogs are failing to obey my
will, and indeed quite a few of them show no signs of even knowing I
exist. The strongest dogs are dominating the weakest, and each dog
does pretty much whatever seems/feels right to it at the moment. That
pretty much matches what we find among "God's children," so I feel I
have succeeded in showing my dogs the same love God shows me.

Yjk---:
Folks who do not follow GOD's Will, going to be like those dogs.
No guideline to follow?

Okay, this is the part which made me want to de-lurk on this NG.

Of the many frightening things theists will profess to believe this one
stands out to me as particularly frightening - the idea that without a
deity (or, more accurately, their personal version of a deity) we would
all of us be without _any_ guidance at all. It frightens me because I
know there are people for whom this is true, and its usually the very
theists who proclaim this. The only thing keeping them in check is fear.
Only the threat of their deity going Old Testament on them keeps them in
line.

This of course doesn't mean that all (or even most) theists are like
this. Most of the ones I know aren't. But I've had conversations with
some who truly feel that people in general would not have _any_ morals
or impulse control if it were not for religion of some sort. And for
them its true, and that keeps me awake at night.

If you are so morally undeveloped as a human being that you need an
external entity tell you basic things like "Treat people with respect,
if something isn't yours don't take it, and raping someone just because
you felt like having it off with them is a Bad Thing" then I honestly
hope you KEEP your primitive belief that an all-seeing judgmental entity
with a long-range Smite-O-Matic and itchy trigger finger is watching
every thing you do. It'd be great if you could sit at the grown-ups
table with the rest of us who can exercise self-control even in the
absence of fears of retribution or punishment. But until that day if it
takes you being afraid of Big Daddy to keep you from acting like an
animal then please do NOT let anything you read, see, hear, think, or
feel shake you from your faith. For our sake.

m aa#2115----:

Next, I
think I'm going to try loving my wife the way Christ loves the Church.
I've already done one really nice thing for her, and given her a copy
of some of my old letters, so tomorrow I can leave her. I'm sure
she'll do as well in the care of the "spirit" of my love and concern
for her as the Church has done under the care of Christ's Spirit. ;-)

yjk---:
You know, "love" is not "trying".
You cannot love her when you do something you yourself
do not believe in.
Bottom line is Christians are happier than atheists are.
Always has something to look forward to.

Like looking forward to constantly being afraid you've displeased Big
Daddy again, and how he'll show his love for you by making you suffer.
Looking forward to being told over and over how you're unworthy, are
nothing but a lowly sinner, and how everyone at the dance will see your
Dirty Pillows if you wear that slutty dress. In some demented way I'm
sure you DO look forward to being mistreated by the psychotic-*****
drunk husband/father you pray to.

"He hits me because he loves me."

-Ghost Rider----:
-
-So when there is a big forest fire, it's a natural occurance. But if it
-starts raining and puts the fire out, that's god? The god only gets the
-credit for good stuff, never the bad. And you can't see the irony in it?

Yjk---:
Natural laws were created by GOD to let us know that we are limited and

-Ghost Rider----:
-
-So when there is a big forest fire, it's a natural occurance. But if
it -starts raining and puts the fire out, that's god? The god only
gets the -credit for good stuff, never the bad. And you can't see the
irony in it?

Yjk---:
Natural laws were created by GOD to let us know that we are limited
and Teach us everything is by cause and effect.
GOD will not interfere with true personal will.

Call HIM in our distress with faith.

-Ghost Rider----:
-Let's look at the biggest irony of all, 9/11. The muslims worship
the same -god as you christians, they just add another psychic and a
few more books. -Their god led them into battle and rewarded those
who gave their lives for -their god in the cockpits of those planes.
Yet on this side, the SAME god -planted heroes in one of the planes,
who thwarted the evil terrorists and -saved many lives, then your
loving god led his christian soldiers into -battle against his muslim
soldiers. -
-No, this makes no sense at all. Not unless you are unable to
distinguish -between fact and fantasy.

Yjk---:
There is One True GOD.
Many others interpret GOD wrong.

Even same Bible believing folks.
They do not understand ways of GOD.

GOD will not approve terrorists. Never.