Christopher A.Lee wrote:

Remember you have "Freedom "of" religion"
Not "freedom "from" religion"

You can't have one without the other, moron.

"Your religion" must not be based on much , if others expressing theirs
to you,, causes you concern :-)

"DanielSan" <danielsan1977@gmail.com> wrote in message...

****************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*--------------------------------------------------*
* "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act *
* of the whole American people which declared that *
* their legislature should make no law respecting *
* an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the *
* free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of *
* separation between church and state." *
* --Thomas Jefferson, 1802 *
****************************************************

Remember... it's freedom from RELIGION, not from God nor from
spirituality.

"Christianity" is a 'religion'... with sub-sects in the high hundreds.

I don't know of ANYONE who says that the separation between church
and state is in the Constitution.

I know of no one who comprehends the slightest bit of early American
history who doesn't fully understand that the American nation was founded
on the freedom of AND from religion. Religion was *NEVER* to be tolerated
in the federal government.

It would appear that we share a common view, but your statements lead
me to add some commentary....

That's a neocon (and perhaps only theocon) strawman concocted to
bash all those who want to keep church and state separate.

Hogwash. The will of the American people was revealed in numerous
votes passed by Congress in subsequent years following it's formation.

Religions are and always have been, the scourge of the earth... wreaking
more death and destruction before them than all famine, disease,
pestilence
and natural disaster throughout history, combined. The founding fathers
of
the future USA were all too keenly aware of this injustice and
persecution,
and specifically set about creating a nation that would disavow the
presence
of 'religion' (not God or spirituality) in governmental bodies, making
persecution
based on religious intolerance and misunderstanding a thing of the past...
while
at the same time, allowing all persons from ALL religions to move freely
about
the nation with an inalienable right to practice their beliefs IN PRIVATE
without
fear of retribution.

(I be willing to bet that you believe in the myth of "thanksgiving" too).

The longest lasting war in the history of mankind just ended a couple of
years
ago with the peace agreement between the Catholics and Protestants in
Northern Ireland. These two groups have been killing each other for 1200
or more years.... not thought about much by those in the USA, which was
established to allow personal freedom of religion thus ending citizen's
exposure to the ongoing "Christian" killing taking place elsewhere in the
world.

When they refer to that "wall", it is referencing
Thomas Jefferson's letter.

They're referring to the general intent of the founding citizens of the
nation.

The founding fathers of America were Deists, not Theists... believing in
a single Creator and holding high esteem there for. "God" was revered
and accepted as a very real possibility, spirituality abounded, but
religion
was always to remain an extremely personal matter and *never* to be
entwined with politics and governing.

For heaven's sake... what kind of person with the slightest brain power
who has read and understood US History regarding how this country
came into being, could possibly *not* understand, that from the very first
colonists (pilgrims) to set foot on this continent, that their sole reason
for
coming here was to *ESCAPE *RELIGIOUS* PERSECUTION* ?????

These people and those that followed were coming here to escape the
so-called "Christianity" that was murdering and persecuting throughout
their former home nations. Escape from this mental perversion and
heinous falsehood called "religion" was the sole original purpose for
the establishment of America.

Religion, MOST ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANITY, was to play NO role in
the governing powers that be; be it at the state, federal, or local level.
Yet at the same time, religious freedom and tolerance were to be put
into place thus allowing ALL religions to co-exist peacefully but also
separately from the governing and law-making powers.


Since this seems to be an equally good time to address the Muslim
"religious" issue, read for example the second President of the United
States, John Adams, and The Treaty of Tripoli (article 11). The treaty
of Tripoli was for the purpose of establishing free trade and ongoing
Peace with the Muslim nations in what is now referred to as the Middle
East.

It was ratified by 100% of Congress in May, 1797.... one of only a hand
full of unanimous votes in the entire history of the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli


Article 11 reads:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in ANY
sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no
character
of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity of Mussulmen;
and,
as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility
against
any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext
arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption
of
the harmony existing between the two countries."


In other words, America was *distancing* itself from the previous crimes
committed by Christians against Muslims in an effort to create peace and
encourage trade.

The treaty was ratified by a UNANIMOUS vote of ALL 23 Senators. The treaty
was reprinted in full in three newspapers, two in Philadelphia and one in
New
York City. There is NO RECORD of ANY public outcry or complaint in any
subsequent editions of the papers.


No, this is NOT a Christian nation and *never has been*... that is, until
recent
years during which Christianity has pushed it's way into government,
against
the wishes of the founders of this nation, and with the most devastating
and
dreadful repercussions now beginning to surface publicly.

There was a reason for the founder's choice to be believers in God, but
their
refusal to cater to the whims of ANY single *religion*. It's called
PEACE.


DM






"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or
no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson


"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed
us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their
use."
-- Galileo Galilei


"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying the cross."
-- Sinclair Lewis