Religions > Atheism > => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"- Vox Populi ©" |
| Date: |
24 Aug 2003 01:57:08 AM |
| Object: |
=> Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
By Michael Rothfeld
Staff Writer
August 23, 2003, 10:23 PM EDT
In life, John Geoghan left a trail of tortured families and shaken faith.
For Catholics on Long Island, the former priest's violent death in prison
yesterday could not alleviate the pain he brought upon the church.
"I can't say that's news I take any pleasure in at all," said Dan Mazzola,
66, a member of St. Rose of Lima parish in Massapequa. "It's too bad. His
entire life was too bad. This is just, I suppose, the culmination of
everything else."
Geoghan was accused of molesting 130 children over three decades as a
Boston-area priest and convicted of molesting a 10-year-old boy at a
swimming pool. He died after he was attacked by another inmate yesterday,
according to corrections officials in Massachusetts.
Dan Bartley, a co-director of Voice of the Faithful of Long Island, a lay
Catholic group, said there was no rejoicing in Geoghan's death.
"In spite of the suffering he inflicted on innocent children, it's sad when
anyone dies so tragically," said Bartley, 42.
"It sounds like a tragic life ending tragically."
Geoghan served under Bishop William F. Murphy of the Diocese of Rockville
Centre while Murphy was a top administrator in the Boston diocese. According
to a report to the diocese Murphy wrote in July in the Long Island Catholic,
the diocesan newspaper, Geoghan's uncle and Murphy's father attended high
school and college together in the Boston area.
Murphy wrote that as vicar general in Boston, he reviewed Geoghan's history
of abuse and worked to remove him from the priesthood against his will.
Geoghan was defrocked in 1998. Court records show, however, that Murphy
spent two years trying to convince Geoghan to resign while demonstrating
affection for him.
"Jack, please know that I always have great affection and concern for you
personally," Murphy wrote in a 1995 letter.
Joanne Novarro, a diocesan spokeswoman, noted yesterday that Murphy had been
responsible for removing Geoghan. She said she could not reach the bishop
yesterday.
"I'm sure he would want to say he would pray for the soul of John Geoghan,"
Novarro said. "Even though he committed terrible crimes, it's a terrible way
for him to meet his end."
The Rev. Gerald Twomey, a co-pastor of St. Anne Roman Catholic Church in
Brentwood, said yesterday, "There's no question that the actions of John
Geoghan and others like him ... have seriously damaged the prestige of
priests in the United States."
Twomey, 49, said that while he considered Geoghan to be a "sick,
pathological inversion of the ideal of priesthood," he did not think most
priests would feel differently about his death than that of any other child
molester.
But Twomey said, "I suspect for many of the direct victims of Geoghan ...
they will achieve some measure of closure that they have perhaps not
experienced before."
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
24 Aug 2003 06:49:23 AM |
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God does not need to will people to be murdered. He does not need us to
embark on witch-hunts or holy wars. Nor does He need to employ humans to
murder other humans as punishment for their sins. The idea that He does is
what has driven every religious conflict since civilisation began - but it
a mistaken belief. If He were inclined to do so, the dead ex-priest in
this case would have been dead long before being sent to prison, surely?
No criminal would ever survive to face a court. But God is eternal, and
according to Christian tradition every soul will come before Him for
judgement. In other words, we have no way to avoid facing Him, and no need
to 'hurry it along' for others - and He is in no rush.
Karma does not require that a person be murdered. That would be pointless.
If a person begins a life with a great deal of negative karma, or
accumulates such over that life, the balance can only be restored by
suffering through life - not by being killed and having to start again.
More likely than either of these was simply a natural hatred by the killer
of those who take advantage of and harm the vulnerable. I can quite
understand this emotion, although I do not agree that it is appropriate to
act on it in this way in general terms. But do not get confused between a
very human act of murder and some great divine justice. Justice it might
have been - but that will always be a matter of perception, and nothing to
do with God.
--
Midwinter
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| User: "= Vox Populi ©" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
24 Aug 2003 07:15:27 PM |
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"Midwinter" <midw688@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bia8o3$ssh$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
God does not need to will people to be murdered. He does not need us to
embark on witch-hunts or holy wars. Nor does He need to employ humans to
murder other humans as punishment for their sins.
--
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of
rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he
shall surely be put to death.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely
be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as
well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the
name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
Josh 1:18 Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and
will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall
be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.
2 Chr 15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be
put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
The idea that He does is
what has driven every religious conflict since civilisation began - but it
a mistaken belief.
Mistaken ... accordung to the Holy Babble?
If He were inclined to do so, the dead ex-priest in
this case would have been dead long before being sent to prison, surely?
Why?
No criminal would ever survive to face a court.
Why not?
But God is eternal, and
according to Christian tradition every soul will come before Him for
judgement.
Some sooner than later eh?
--
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of
rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he
shall surely be put to death.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely
be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as
well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the
name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
Josh 1:18 Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and
will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall
be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.
2 Chr 15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be
put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
In other words, we have no way to avoid facing Him, and no need
to 'hurry it along' for others - and He is in no rush.
Yet your pathetic god commands it.
Karma does not require that a person be murdered. That would be pointless.
If a person begins a life with a great deal of negative karma, or
accumulates such over that life, the balance can only be restored by
suffering through life - not by being killed and having to start again.
How do you know his next life wont be as an aids infected anal concubine
in sub-saharan africa?
More likely than either of these was simply a natural hatred by the killer
of those who take advantage of and harm the vulnerable. I can quite
understand this emotion, although I do not agree that it is appropriate to
act on it in this way in general terms.
So you disagree with your own god-creature? It won't be happy.
But do not get confused between a
very human act of murder and some great divine justice. Justice it might
have been - but that will always be a matter of perception, and nothing to
do with God.
You speak for your god now, eh blasphemer?
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| User: "= Vox Populi ©" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
25 Aug 2003 09:24:12 AM |
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"Midwinter" <midw688@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bic8fv$ba$1@titan.btinternet.com...
On 25 Aug 2003, => Vox Populi © had this to say:
The idea that He does is
what has driven every religious conflict since civilisation began -
but it a mistaken belief.
Mistaken ... accordung to the Holy Babble?
According to the NT, I would have thought so, yes.
If He were inclined to do so, the dead ex-priest in
this case would have been dead long before being sent to prison,
surely?
Why?
Because if
*if* ?
They claim it certainly *is* ...
if the Christian God is all-powerful and can command humans to
kill (or was inclined to because they sinned against their fellow man)
then every criminal would meet a lynch mob or a lone killer before
getting anywhere near a court. God would arrange it.
Where in the Babble does it claim that god give's a flying ***** about
the laws made by man?
But God is eternal, and
according to Christian tradition every soul will come before Him for
judgement.
Some sooner than later eh?
Yes, pretty much. That is at least how I understand the Christian
doctrine. While power structures loosely based around Christianity may
take it upon themselves to decide when death comes to the sinner and the
heretic, and while lone religious maniacs might suddenly decide that God
wants them to stand in judgement of their fellows, I personally cannot
see any scriptural justification for it.
"Abraham kill me a son" ... ?
In other words, we have no way to avoid facing Him, and no need
to 'hurry it along' for others - and He is in no rush.
Yet your pathetic god commands it.
Look before you froth. I am not Christian - I do not worship this
'pathetic' god.
Halleluah !
I simply cannot see where He DOES command it in their
relevant holy text.
Well, here ... see this example and learn:
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of
rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he
shall surely be put to death.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely
be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as
well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the
name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
Josh 1:18 Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and
will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall
be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.
2 Chr 15:13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be
put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
That is my point. You can quote OT passages all you
like (and I know Christians do when they wish to justify executions and
crusades and so on, and anti-Christians like yourself do when they wish
to condemn Christianity) -
So only the Jews get to have all the fun?
but it is the NEW Testament that is relevant
to them, the NEW Covenant. And I cannot see such instructions there.
So the OT is irrelevant and no longer valid to any "true" christians?
Someone should notify them post haste ...
How do you know his next life wont be as an aids infected anal
concubine in sub-saharan africa?
I do not.
More likely than either of these was simply a natural hatred by the
killer of those who take advantage of and harm the vulnerable. I can
quite understand this emotion, although I do not agree that it is
appropriate to act on it in this way in general terms.
So you disagree with your own god-creature? It won't be happy.
No. I disagree with some people's ideas about their own god-creature.
Well, which one's do you agree with?
And quite frankly I could not care less whether it is happy or not.
It seems eternally cranky and ill-tempered.
Perhaps if you spent more time reading posts rather than thinking about
what your angry response is going to be...? Certainly I apologise for
not making it more clear that I do not follow this particular faith, but
god knows (figure of speech) I have said it often enough.
But do not get confused between a
very human act of murder and some great divine justice. Justice it
might have been - but that will always be a matter of perception, and
nothing to do with God.
You speak for your god now, eh blasphemer?
As above.
As below ...
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
30 Aug 2003 06:27:09 PM |
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On 25 Aug 2003, => Vox Populi © had this to say:
Because if
*if* ?
They claim it certainly *is* ...
Indeed. However, I do not share their beliefs, so I can only speculate
on ifs and maybes.
Where in the Babble does it claim that god give's a flying ***** about
the laws made by man?
The two testaments are very different books written in very different
cultures and describing very different gods. In the Old Testament, to
answer your question, it does not. In the New Testament, there are one
or two references along "render unto Caesar" lines that suggest God at
least indulges human laws - unless they directly contradict His own.
Yes, pretty much. That is at least how I understand the Christian
doctrine. While power structures loosely based around Christianity
may take it upon themselves to decide when death comes to the sinner
and the heretic, and while lone religious maniacs might suddenly
decide that God wants them to stand in judgement of their fellows, I
personally cannot see any scriptural justification for it.
"Abraham kill me a son" ... ?
An Old Testament example, of course, under a godly regime which would
have theoretically been superceded by the "new covenant". Whereas the OT
God was an angry and violent God, the NT God supposedly encourages His
followers to 'turn the other cheek'. It also teaches that Jesus has the
power to judge, and will judge all humans at the time of the Second
Coming - whenever that might be. If that is the case, and if Jesus is
immortal, then it follows that there is no requirement for humans to
judge each other on Jesus' behalf.
I simply cannot see where He DOES command it in their
relevant holy text.
Well, here ... see this example and learn:
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the
sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the
sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall
surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone
him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he
blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
Again, I do not dispute that the Old Testament God was an extremely
violent creature. But the Christian faith is - or should be -
constructed on the New Testament, not the blood and fire of the Old.
Jesus is - we are told - the "new deal", presumably since threats and
violence have been tested and shown to be ineffective.
That is my point. You can quote OT passages all you
like (and I know Christians do when they wish to justify executions
and crusades and so on, and anti-Christians like yourself do when
they wish to condemn Christianity) -
So only the Jews get to have all the fun?
If you consider murder and executions to be fun, then yes. The New
Testament offers a different approach - or should do. Certainly the
words of Jesus in the only four books that actually matter suggest that
all this putting to death is not the best way to go. Unless you wish to
show me differently, that is certainly the impression I get. The gospels
- the basic building block of what Christianity should have been - do not
justify such.
but it is the NEW Testament that is relevant
to them, the NEW Covenant. And I cannot see such instructions there.
So the OT is irrelevant and no longer valid to any "true" christians?
Someone should notify them post haste ...
I cannot make judgements on what 'true' Christians should be since I am
not Christian. Therefore I do not believe that Christianity is 'true' at
all. If I DID, then of course *I* would be a 'true' Christian, and
anyone whose belief system differed from mine would be a hellbound
heretic.
But for myself, I certainly think that the New Testament directly
contradicts the Old in many ways, not least this very subject. And I
think that if Jesus is to be accepted as the Messiah, and if Messiah is
interpreted in the way that Christians wish to interpret the concept,
then the Old Testament does not seem relevant any more.
No. I disagree with some people's ideas about their own
god-creature.
Well, which one's do you agree with?
Would you like me to go into a lengthy description of my idea of what
constitutes divinity? If I am to do so, could you tell me what relevance
you think such an explanation would have, given that neither you nor I
hold any belief in the Christian idea of God?
And quite frankly I could not care less whether it is happy or not.
It seems eternally cranky and ill-tempered.
To me it simply seems non-existent, but let it pass.
As above.
As below ...
Also not a concept I share.
--
Midwinter
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
24 Aug 2003 06:39:04 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:49:23 +0000 (UTC), Midwinter
<midw688@hotmail.com> posted in alt.atheism:
God does not need to will people to be murdered. He does not need us to
embark on witch-hunts or holy wars. Nor does He need to employ humans to
murder other humans as punishment for their sins. The idea that He does is
what has driven every religious conflict since civilisation began - but it
a mistaken belief. If He were inclined to do so, the dead ex-priest in
this case would have been dead long before being sent to prison, surely?
Surely.
Which means that your god WANTED him to continue to live to be able to
molest children.
More likely than either of these was simply a natural hatred by the killer
of those who take advantage of and harm the vulnerable.
Which is why he was in prison for having committed murder. He was
just a nice Christian who was misunderstood by the law.
--
"The doctrine that the earth is neither the center of the universe nor immovable, but
moves even with a daily rotation, is absurd, and both philosophically and theologically
false, and at the least an error of faith."
- Catholic Church's decision against Galileo Galilei
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
25 Aug 2003 12:46:05 AM |
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I guess this will teach me not to take 'one last look' before I go - it
is embarrassing having to post after I have sent a 'goodbye' message, so
this and my answer to Vox will have to be the last ones.
But I cannot let this one go without an answer because Al Klein and Vox'
misinterpretation of my post needs correcting while I have chance (albeit
rushed).
On 25 Aug 2003, Al Klein had this to say:
Surely.
Which means that your god WANTED him to continue to live to be able to
molest children.
Firstly, the Christian God is not 'my' God. I am not Christian - I am
pagan. And personally, I see no reason why someone like this priest IS
kept alive, other than that such is required *by the law of the land*. I
have no use for people like him, and feel absolutely no sorrow at his
death. However, his killing was an *illegal* act, much as it might have
been a useful one. And it is not one that I believe is made any more
'legal' by claiming it to have been karma or "God's will".
Which is why he was in prison for having committed murder. He was
just a nice Christian who was misunderstood by the law.
I doubt it. He was a murderer. And no doubt he believed he had every
reason for his original killing much as he felt he had reason for killing
this priest. He was wrong on both counts. But in your first paragraph
you express contempt when you think I am trying to say the priest should
have been allowed to live: that demonstrates the understandable hatred I
spoke of, the hatred of those who abuse the vulnerable. And no doubt
this murderer felt it, too - but I am not trying to address the issue of
his previous crimes, nor defend him for this one. I am simply trying to
suggest that his killing of the priest was probably not driven by any
god.
--
Midwinter
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
30 Aug 2003 06:09:33 PM |
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On 25 Aug 2003, => Vox Populi © had this to say:
I am pagan.
Outlaw Biker Gang or ambiguously defined Belief System ?
Ambiguously-defined belief system. That said, it is perfectly adequately
defined for my purposes and for anyone else's it is irrelevant.
And to be made to suffer. Death ends suffering, but you knew that
as a pagan.
Firstly you do not really know what I know and what I do not, and
secondly I would certainly agree that punishment intended to bring about
rehabilitation should involve a degree of suffering of some kind, but if
a dangerous threat to society is simply removed by incarceration or
isolation then that is sufficient. I personally see nothing valuable in
such people as this which would warrant any great deal of effort being
expended in making them suitable for re-introduction into society.
I
have no use for people like him,
Who does?
Who indeed.
That's relative. Many of the civilian Iraqis killed by U$ troops
would make the same claim.
I would say that such expressions as 'right' and 'wrong' are always
relative. But 'legal' and 'illegal' are terms which in themselves assume
a certain frame of reference. In this case it is the domestic law of the
United States. Iraqi civilians are not relevant to the discussion.
much as it might have
been a useful one. And it is not one that I believe is made any more
'legal' by claiming it to have been karma or "God's will".
That's a tautology. Since god don't make anything "legal or illegal"
...
It is not a tautology - and I stated that I do not believe in the
Christian God. Therefore I do not make any claims regarding what He does
and does not do; only what I imagine He might hypothetically do - on the
basis of what I know of Christian tradition.
I doubt it. He was a murderer.
Are you sure?
As sure as I need to be. The reliability of his initial conviction is
not for me to question.
Like many claim to have a reason for believing in their god, and
acting upon commands given by their fabricated god.
Precisely. But does that invariably make such acts "right"? I would
contend that it does not (indeed, that it rarely does), and that the
subject line of this thread poses a meaningless question, which attempts
to shift personal responsibility for a crime away from its perpetrator
and onto some divine force or god figure.
Forced to live ... a painful and tormented long life.
Your motive here is vengeance. This is pointless and unconstructive, and
in this example (unless your family have been directly affected by this
man's crimes) it is not your right to claim such revenge in any case.
You mean not driven by some cretinous human's claim he was acting on
"god's" behalf ... or that it wasn't "god's" will ...?
I mean that, going by the 'basics' of what Christianity teaches about its
god, a murder such as this would be unlikely to be "God's will". More
likely it is simply the will of a person who cannot or will not keep
control of their emotions.
--
Midwinter
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
30 Aug 2003 07:48:10 PM |
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Someone said:
I am pagan
Are you, by chance, a teenager?
--
-Kolle; 15 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, and Gustav Mahler are my Gods.
Madly Insane EAC Scientist.
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| User: "= Vox Populi ©" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
30 Aug 2003 09:16:02 PM |
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Daniel Kolle wrote:
Someone said:
I am pagan
Are you, by chance, a teenager?
Or even an ex-teenager, eh?
--
"Imagine the people who believe such things
and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally,
all the patient findings of thinking minds through
all the centuries since the Bible was written.
And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated,
the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us,
who would make themselves the guides and leaders of
us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs
on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and
homes. I personally resent it bitterly..."
-- Isaac Asimov,
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| User: "Midwinter" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
31 Aug 2003 05:44:08 AM |
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On 31 Aug 2003, Daniel Kolle had this to say:
Someone said:
I am pagan
Are you, by chance, a teenager?
Because 'pagan' invariably means someone who has got their belief system
out of a book, and shows it off in order to look "cool", right?
No, I am not a teenager.
As I said, my belief system is perfectly adequate for me, and irrelevant to
anyone else. I made the statement simply in reply to Vox's assumption that
I was Christian, and also took the liberty of answering what I usually find
is the inevitable follow-up question: "well, what are you then?"
--
Midwinter
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
24 Aug 2003 08:01:33 AM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:49:23 +0000 (UTC), Midwinter
<midw688@hotmail.com> wrote:
God does not need to will people to be murdered. He does not need us to
embark on witch-hunts or holy wars. Nor does He need to employ humans to
murder other humans as punishment for their sins. The idea that He does is
what has driven every religious conflict since civilisation began - but it
a mistaken belief. If He were inclined to do so, the dead ex-priest in
this case would have been dead long before being sent to prison, surely?
No criminal would ever survive to face a court. But God is eternal, and
according to Christian tradition every soul will come before Him for
judgement. In other words, we have no way to avoid facing Him, and no need
to 'hurry it along' for others - and He is in no rush.
Figments of the imagination don't do anything.
However there are people who imagine they do. who also imagine they're
helping the figment and doing its work.
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| User: "BlackWater" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
24 Aug 2003 01:11:28 PM |
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Neither. I think he just pissed-off some big guy
with a *really* bad temper. Probably took the last
of the green peas at chow time ...
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
24 Aug 2003 01:37:09 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:11:28 GMT, BlackWater <bw@barrk.net> wrote:
Neither. I think he just pissed-off some big guy
with a *really* bad temper. Probably took the last
of the green peas at chow time ...
There is a hierarchy of prisoners. Child molesters are the lowest of
the low. I don't know why he was with the general prison population.
In the UK he would have been segregated for his own protection -
practically solitary confinement.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
24 Aug 2003 06:40:19 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:37:09 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:11:28 GMT, BlackWater <bw@barrk.net> wrote:
Neither. I think he just pissed-off some big guy
with a *really* bad temper. Probably took the last
of the green peas at chow time ...
There is a hierarchy of prisoners. Child molesters are the lowest of
the low. I don't know why he was with the general prison population.
In the UK he would have been segregated for his own protection -
practically solitary confinement.
He was. His killer was also among the segregated population.
--
"A truly unselfish act would be a Christian volunteering to have his soul take your
soul's place in hell, so yours could go to Heaven. Don't hold your breath."
- John Popelish
&
"The United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion"
- Treaty of Tripoli, 1797, ratified by Congress
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
24 Aug 2003 07:27:51 PM |
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On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:40:19 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:37:09 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> posted in alt.atheism:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:11:28 GMT, BlackWater <bw@barrk.net> wrote:
Neither. I think he just pissed-off some big guy
with a *really* bad temper. Probably took the last
of the green peas at chow time ...
There is a hierarchy of prisoners. Child molesters are the lowest of
the low. I don't know why he was with the general prison population.
In the UK he would have been segregated for his own protection -
practically solitary confinement.
He was. His killer was also among the segregated population.
Interesting. They're usually supervised more than the others, to
protect them from each other.
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
25 Aug 2003 10:02:12 PM |
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On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:39:29 GMT, BlackWater <bw@barrk.net> wrote:
There was an 'experimental' prison system tried back
around the end of the 1800s in which the prisoners
were *totally* isolated from each other - visited
only by officials, preachers and such. As such, there
was no 'prison culture' and the inmates had a chance
to dis-habituate themselves from the way of thinking
that got 'em locked up in the first place. Instead
of being a crime academy, turning out a worse, harder,
product than went in, there was actually the opportunity
for rehabilitation and re-civilization.
For a good description of solitary confinement, read the book
'Papillon'.
Oh well, the 'liberals' would probably say it was 'cruel
and unusual' these days ...
You misspelled 'rational people'.
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| User: "= Vox Populi ©" |
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| Title: Re: => Child Molesting Priest murdered in Prison - Karma or God's Will ? |
27 Aug 2003 09:17:54 AM |
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"Jos Flachs" <'wcruise'@ksc15.th.com> wrote in message
news:okflkv8mtuh5lgj2s85sknnub5kdks6cda@4ax.com...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:39:29 GMT, BlackWater <bw@barrk.net> wrote:
There was an 'experimental' prison system tried back
around the end of the 1800s in which the prisoners
were *totally* isolated from each other - visited
only by officials, preachers and such. As such, there
was no 'prison culture' and the inmates had a chance
to dis-habituate themselves from the way of thinking
that got 'em locked up in the first place. Instead
of being a crime academy, turning out a worse, harder,
product than went in, there was actually the opportunity
for rehabilitation and re-civilization.
For a good description of solitary confinement, read the book
'Papillon'.
That was last century, French, AdMax in the U$$A today makes that
look rather humane by comparison ...
Oh well, the 'liberals' would probably say it was 'cruel
and unusual' these days ...
You misspelled 'rational people'.
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