On Nov 2, 4:24 pm, Deadrat <a...@b.com> wrote:

"_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote
innews:5p1ccoFp1nbaU1@mid.individual.net:

"Deadrat" <a...@b.com> wrote in message

"Fester" <n...@home.com> wrote in

"Deadrat" <a...@b.com> wrote in message

"Fester" <n...@home.com> wrote in

"_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote in message

Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest

Albert Snyder sued after church members demonstrated at his
son's funeral

The church and three of its leaders were found liable for
invasion of privacy

Church believes the Iraq war is a punishment for the nation's
tolerance of gays

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests

BALTIMORE, Maryland (AP) -- A grieving father won a nearly $11
million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas
church that pickets military funerals in the belief that the
war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of
homosexuality.

A member of Westboro Baptist Church protests outside a
veteran's hospital in Maywood, Illinois, in April 2006.

Albert Snyder of York, Pennsylvania, sued the Westboro Baptist
Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at
the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder,
who was killed in Iraq.

The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages.
It returned later in the afternoon with its decision to award
$6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2
million for causing emotional distress.

U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted the size of the
award for compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of
the defendants," according to financial statements filed with
the court.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel
killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank
God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."
A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral
protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such
protests at federal cemeteries.

But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by
the family of a fallen serviceman.
The church and three of its leaders -- the Rev. Fred Phelps
and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca
Phelps-Davis, 46 -- were found liable for invasion of privacy
and intent to inflict emotional distress.

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have
been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their
religious beliefs by spreading the message that the deaths of
soldiers are due to the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.
Their attorneys argued in closing statements Tuesday that the
burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of
view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees
freedom of speech and religion.

The judge said the church's financial statements, sealed
earlier, could be released to the plaintiffs.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the
federal courthouse.
Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your
enemy," while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag
and carried a sign that read "God hates fag enablers."
Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of
"God Bless America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the
church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles

As disgusting, repulsive and vile as these unhinged Westboro
SOBs are, I hate to say that they do have a right to free
speech.

So they do. And they exercised that right unimpeded by the
state. And that's all free speech buys you.

I don't think
that people have a right to not have their feelings hurt.

In general, they don't. In this case, however, Phelps was done
in by his over-the-top behavior in conjunction with a finding of
defamation against him.

I don't
mean this to minimize my sympathy for the family of the
deceased here.
In cases like this one, I would dearly love to be able shut
these
morons up, but I don't think that the decision will or should
be upheld, owing to the principle involved.

The principle being upheld here is any easy one to understand
and approve: Don't be an *****.

There's no law against that either.

Of course, not. Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that
it can't get your ***** in legal trouble.

Just look at all the posters on
this news group who haven't been locked up :-)

I realize that you're being, er, cute: I love an emoticon as much
as the next poster, so if I'm belaboring a point, excuse me. No
one is accusing Phelps (or the clowns on this news group) of
violating any criminal laws, so they're in no danger of being
"locked up." Which is also why the First Amendment won't help
Phelps.

The award may well be reduced, but the decision won't be easy to
overturn. The jury determined the facts in this case: Phelps
made false and believable statements to others about the
defendants. The facts are not appealable.

I feel ill defending the rights of people who have abused them so
badly,

Two things. First, you should not feel ill defending the rights
of people you don't like; you should rejoince in the activity.
It's the essence of our system. Second, Phelps did not abuse any
of his rights; he damaged another person and he's been held liable
for the damage.

but would you please tell me what the facts are? Specifically
how did they defame the defendants?

The plaintiffs (the Snyders) successfully sued Phelps for invasion
of privacy,

What "privacy" exactly?

My undestanding is that Phelps posted pictures of the family and
stories about their situation on his web sites.

intentional infliction of emotional harm,

There is no right to be free from emotional "harm".

This is true. But under certain circumstances you can hold someone
liable for causing you such harm. Understand yet?

and defamation.

What fame did they have prior to Phelps?

The latter included saying that the Snyders had raised their son
"for the devil,"

Millions of people in the world belive that Bu$h is the devil.

Just Hugo Chavez, as far as I know. But that doesn't mean the devil
actually exists.

to commit adultery

Was their son not guilty of this sin, as defined
in the Holey Baable?

Not the question, as their son was not a party to the suit. The
issue was whether his parents raised him to commit adultery.

and idoloatry,

Ibid.

Ibid.

and to support a pedophilic organization (the Catholic Church).

Irrefutable.

Again, the question is not whether the Catholic Church is a pedphilic
organization but whether the Snyders raised their son to condone
such.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Civil law is still a law.

A Law written by a legislative body,

which still must abide by constitutional principles.

I think you are trying
desperately to split hairs that aren't meant to be split.

Phelps is an *****.

He wheedles the legislative system

to make a living off of being an *****.

Yes, I like the fact he is being hurt,

but no...it is still overall a bad decision IMNSHO.

Now, if a cop
followed him around, and gave him Disturbing the peace citation every
time he went and protested a funeral, violating noise ordinance every
time his group exceeped certain decibel levels, jaywalking every time
he crossed the street not at a crosswalk, a blocking traffic citation
if he even as so much as narrowed the corridor in which the funeral
procession went....that would be pretty good law.

Hatter

"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:472b0102$0$20649$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

"Deadrat" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:kSvWi.52114$RX.14032@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...

"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in
news:472a7550$0$32546$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

"_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote in message
news:5osp4fFo30caU1@mid.individual.net...

Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest

Albert Snyder sued after church members demonstrated at his son's
funeral

The church and three of its leaders were found liable for invasion
of privacy

Church believes the Iraq war is a punishment for the nation's
tolerance of gays

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests

BALTIMORE, Maryland (AP) -- A grieving father won a nearly $11
million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church
that pickets military funerals in the belief that the war in Iraq
is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

A member of Westboro Baptist Church protests outside a veteran's
hospital in Maywood, Illinois, in April 2006.

Albert Snyder of York, Pennsylvania, sued the Westboro Baptist
Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the
March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was
killed in Iraq.

The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It
returned later in the afternoon with its decision to award $6
million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million
for causing emotional distress.

U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted the size of the award for
compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants,"
according to financial statements filed with the court.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel
killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God
for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."
A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and
Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal
cemeteries.

But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the
family of a fallen serviceman.
The church and three of its leaders -- the Rev. Fred Phelps and his
two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 --
were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict
emotional distress.

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a
private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious
beliefs by spreading the message that the deaths of soldiers are
due to the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.
Their attorneys argued in closing statements Tuesday that the
burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view
are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of
speech and religion.

The judge said the church's financial statements, sealed earlier,
could be released to the plaintiffs.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal
courthouse.
Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy,"
while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a
sign that read "God hates fag enablers."
Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God
Bless America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the
church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles

As disgusting, repulsive and vile as these unhinged Westboro SOBs
are, I hate to say that they do have a right to free speech.

So they do. And they exercised that right unimpeded by the state.
And that's all free speech buys you.

I don't think
that people have a right to not have their feelings hurt.

In general, they don't. In this case, however, Phelps was done in by
his over-the-top behavior in conjunction with a finding of defamation
against him.

I don't
mean this to minimize my sympathy for the family of the deceased
here.
In cases like this one, I would dearly love to be able shut these
morons up, but I don't think that the decision will or should be
upheld, owing to the principle involved.

The principle being upheld here is any easy one to understand and
approve: Don't be an *****.

There's no law against that either.

Of course, not. Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that it can't
get your ***** in legal trouble.

Just look at all the posters on
this news group who haven't been locked up :-)

I realize that you're being, er, cute: I love an emoticon as much as the
next poster, so if I'm belaboring a point, excuse me. No one is accusing
Phelps (or the clowns on this news group) of violating any criminal laws,
so they're in no danger of being "locked up." Which is also why the
First Amendment won't help Phelps.

The award may well be reduced, but the decision won't be easy to
overturn. The jury determined the facts in this case: Phelps made
false and believable statements to others about the defendants. The
facts are not appealable.

I feel ill defending the rights of people who have abused them so
badly,

Two things. First, you should not feel ill defending the rights of
people you don't like; you should rejoince in the activity. It's the
essence of our system. Second, Phelps did not abuse any of his rights;
he damaged another person and he's been held liable for the damage.

but would you please tell me what the facts are? Specifically
how did they defame the defendants?

The plaintiffs (the Snyders) successfully sued Phelps for invasion of
privacy, intentional infliction of emotional harm, and defamation. The
latter included saying that the Snyders had raised their son "for the
devil," to commit adultery and idoloatry, and to support a pedophilic
organization (the Catholic Church).

"Deadrat" <a...@b.com> wrote in message

news:kSvWi.52114$RX.14032@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net...

"Fester" <n...@home.com> wrote in
news:472a7550$0$32546$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

"_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote in message
news:5osp4fFo30caU1@mid.individual.net...

Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest

Albert Snyder sued after church members demonstrated at his son's
funeral

The church and three of its leaders were found liable for invasion of
privacy

Church believes the Iraq war is a punishment for the nation's
tolerance of gays

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests

BALTIMORE, Maryland (AP) -- A grieving father won a nearly $11
million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that
pickets military funerals in the belief that the war in Iraq is a
punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

A member of Westboro Baptist Church protests outside a veteran's
hospital in Maywood, Illinois, in April 2006.

Albert Snyder of York, Pennsylvania, sued the Westboro Baptist Church
for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006
funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in
Iraq.

The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It
returned later in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million
in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for
causing emotional distress.

U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted the size of the award for
compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants,"
according to financial statements filed with the court.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed
in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead
soldiers" and "God hates fags."
A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and
Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal
cemeteries.

But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the
family of a fallen serviceman.
The church and three of its leaders -- the Rev. Fred Phelps and his
two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 --
were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict
emotional distress.

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a
private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious
beliefs by spreading the message that the deaths of soldiers are due
to the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.
Their attorneys argued in closing statements Tuesday that the burial
was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are
protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech
and religion.

The judge said the church's financial statements, sealed earlier,
could be released to the plaintiffs.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal
courthouse.
Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy,"
while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a
sign that read "God hates fag enablers."
Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God
Bless America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church
greeted the news with tightlipped smiles

As disgusting, repulsive and vile as these unhinged Westboro SOBs are,
I hate to say that they do have a right to free speech.

So they do. And they exercised that right unimpeded by the state. And
that's all free speech buys you.

I don't think
that people have a right to not have their feelings hurt.

In general, they don't. In this case, however, Phelps was done in by his
over-the-top behavior in conjunction with a finding of defamation against
him.

I don't
mean this to minimize my sympathy for the family of the deceased here.
In cases like this one, I would dearly love to be able shut these
morons up, but I don't think that the decision will or should be
upheld, owing to the principle involved.

The principle being upheld here is any easy one to understand and
approve: Don't be an *****.

There's no law against that either. Just look at all the posters on this
news group who haven't been locked up :-)

The award may well be reduced, but the decision won't be easy to
overturn. The jury determined the facts in this case: Phelps made false
and believable statements to others about the defendants. The facts are
not appealable.

I feel ill defending the rights of people who have abused them so badly, but
would you please tell me what the facts are? Specifically how did they
defame the defendants?

"_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote in message
news:5osp4fFo30caU1@mid.individual.net...

Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest

Albert Snyder sued after church members demonstrated at his son's funeral

The church and three of its leaders were found liable for invasion of
privacy

Church believes the Iraq war is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of
gays

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests

BALTIMORE, Maryland (AP) -- A grieving father won a nearly $11 million
verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets
military funerals in the belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for
the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

A member of Westboro Baptist Church protests outside a veteran's hospital
in Maywood, Illinois, in April 2006.

Albert Snyder of York, Pennsylvania, sued the Westboro Baptist Church for
unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral
of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.

The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned
later in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive
damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional
distress.

U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted the size of the award for
compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants,"
according to financial statements filed with the court.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in
Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers"
and "God hates fags."
A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and
Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries.

But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family
of a fallen serviceman.
The church and three of its leaders -- the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two
daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 -- were found
liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private
ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by
spreading the message that the deaths of soldiers are due to the nation's
tolerance of homosexuality.
Their attorneys argued in closing statements Tuesday that the burial was a
public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the
First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

The judge said the church's financial statements, sealed earlier, could be
released to the plaintiffs.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal
courthouse.
Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while
Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that
read "God hates fag enablers."
Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless
America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church
greeted the news with tightlipped smiles

As disgusting, repulsive and vile as these unhinged Westboro SOBs are, I
hate to say that they do have a right to free speech.

I don't think that
people have a right to not have their feelings hurt. I don't mean this to
minimize my sympathy for the family of the deceased here. In cases like
this one, I would dearly love to be able shut these morons up, but I don't
think that the decision will or should be upheld, owing to the principle
involved.

Church ordered to pay $10.9 million for funeral protest