Religions > Atheism > ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"¥ UltraMan ¥" |
| Date: |
13 Oct 2007 01:53:27 AM |
| Object: |
~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
Does God Exist Scientifically?
"Does God Exist?" A person's foundational worldview is determined by how you answer
the question. Review the scientific and mathematical evidence for God's existence and
make a decision.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/does-god-exist.htm
Click To Discover
a.. Does God Exist - Based on the latest scientific evidence, has atheism become a
greater leap of faith than theism? Check out the evidence for the existence of God
here!
b.. God The Creator - Enjoy a creative expression of God's creation of the
universe, mankind, and all things.
c.. Existence of God Video - Can we make a case for God's reality? Can we use
scientific evidence to prove that God exists? Check out this video clip!
d.. Evolution Timeline Video - What are the phases of evolution in naturalistic
history? Are there interrelated stages in the evolution timeline? Check this short
video out!
e.. Is God a Delusion Video - Is there a scientific or philosophical approach to
establishing that God is no delusion? What would Dawkins say? You gotta stream this
short video now!
f.. Punctuated Equilibrium Video - How can we use philosophical conjecture to fill
the gaps in the fossil record? What theories are the scientists using? Stream this
short video clip now!
g.. Watch Design Video - Does William Paley's classic comparison of an organic cell
to watch design apply in today's Intelligent Design debate? View this short video
now!
h.. Radiometric Dating - A review of the latest scientific techniques for dating
inorganic objects.
i.. Theory Of Relativity Video - Watch this amazing video clip on the incredible
number of perfect settings required to sustain life on our planet. Could all of these
factors happened by chance?
j.. Human Evolution - A look at the fossil record and the controversial history of
the analysis.
k.. Dinosaur Extinction - What happened to the dinosaurs? What are the latest
conjectures?
l.. DNA Molecule - Although DNA code is remarkably complex, it's the information
translation system connected to that code that really baffles science.
m.. Evolutionism - Are the suggested evolutionary phases valid? A review of cosmic,
stellar, chemical, planetary, organic, macro and micro evolution.
n.. Evolution And The Fossil Record - Australopithecus afarensis, or "Lucy," was
considered a missing link for years. Studies now show that she was a pygmy
chimpanzee.
o.. Human Eye - Check out the eye. Complex organs made up of separate but necessary
subsystems cannot be the result of random chance.
p.. Complexity of Life Video - What does all the order and design inherent in
nature mean? Is life a miracle? View this short video now!
q.. Cell Structure - Is there really such a thing as "simple," now that we can view
cells using the latest in microbiological technology?
r.. Origin Of The Universe - The universe was created between 10 and 20 billion
years ago from a cosmic explosion that hurled matter and in all directions.
s.. The Age Of The Earth Part 2 - Young earth or old earth model? Historical review
of majority opinion. Radiometric dating. Natural chronometers pointing to a young
earth.
t.. Evolution Of Man - All humans originate from an ape-like ancestor that existed
a few million years ago. Learn the concepts of this theory.
u.. Darwin's Theory Of Evolution - The theory of natural selection and its various
issues.
v.. How Old Is The Earth? - A look at the latest in science and technology as
applied to our past.
w.. Evidence For Intelligent Design - Because of the metaphysical implications of
life resulting from intelligence, a surprisingly large number of us seek to reject
the concept.
x.. Theory Of Relativity - Einstein's theory that objects will move slower and
shorten in length from the point of view of an observer on Earth.
y.. Intelligent Design Video - Watch this extraordinary video clip of mechanical
and biological machines. See the fantastic complexity of life at the molecular level.
Does it point to an act of random evolution or design? What do the triple PhD's and
experts think about this?
z.. Proof Of God - What would constitute evidence for God? Using fundamental design
detection methodology, check out the incredible evidence for Intelligent Design now!
aa.. Second Law: Thermodynamics - Natural law and observable evidence applied to
shed dramatic light on our cosmos.
ab.. Irreducible Complexity - Michael Behe, a biochemist currently teaching at
Lehigh University, coined a term for describing the design phenomenon inherent in
molecular machines.
ac.. Catastrophism - The opposite of Uniformitarianism and the Geologic Time Scale.
Evidence for cataclysmic activity on earth. The Noachian Flood. The implications.
ad.. Origin of Life Video - Stream this short video clip on the huge question of
origins. Do you know what you believe and can you back it up with evidence?
ae.. Origin Of The Universe - What do we know about the beginning of space, time
and matter?
af.. All About The Journey - Read the life-story of Randall Niles, a long-time
cynic of Christianity. How did his life change as he gathered the facts and came to
conclusions?
ag.. Intelligent Design - An examination of mechanical and biological machines.
Spontaneous generation vs. concept and design. The fantastic complexity at the
molecular level.
ah.. The Age Of The Earth - What evidence in our observable world actually limits
its age to thousands of years?
ai.. Creation Vs. Evolution - An emotional debate that goes to the core of life and
meaning.
aj.. The Dinosaur Fossils - What does the fossil record tell us about these great
creatures?
ak.. Charles Darwin - A look at the story behind the theory that changed the way we
look at our world.
al.. Geologic Time Scale - Do we really see credible time periods in the layers of
our earth's crust?
am.. DNA Double Helix - The DNA double helix is a great scientific discovery. Does
it point to an act of randomness or divine intervention?
an.. Piltdown Man - The discovery. The alleged missing link. The hoax. The
perpetrators. Dawson, Woodward and Chardin. A warning to all of us.
ao.. Spontaneous Generation - Why are scientists declaring such huge odds against
their own theories? Why are they proposing slightly outlandish non-scientific
conjectures?
ap.. Origin Of Life - Compelling media and pop science sell the notion that water,
rocks, volcanic salts and time can produce reproducing life.
aq.. Charles Darwin Video - Watch this short video clip on Charles Darwin and his
infamous theory of evolution. Discover the truth today!
ar.. Microscopic Organisms - If the first, simple organisms created on prebiotic
earth are at the foundation of evolutionary thinking, then what's a "simple"
organism?
as.. Miracle Of Life - It's more likely to win the state lottery every week for a
million years than randomly assemble the first bacterium.
at.. Intelligent Design Theory - The living results of natural selection
overwhelmingly impress us with the appearance of design as if by a master watchmaker.
Just appearance?
au.. Evolution of Man Video - Who was Darwin and what are the arguments regarding
his theory? What is natural selection and how does it play into what Charles Darwin
believed?
av.. Darwin's Theory of Evolution Video - Stream a short video on this theory. See
the incredible advances we've made in molecular biology, biochemistry, and genetics
since Charles Darwin.
aw.. Creation Evidence - Is there really any evidence for supernatural creation?
Check it out for yourself!
ax.. Creation Vs. Evolution - A hot debate within our culture today that sheds
light on core values.
ay.. All About Creation - Do creation and science work together or do they
contradict? Study the facts and make an informed decision.
az.. Charles Darwin - Natural Selection, in conjunction with genetic mutation,
allowed for the development of all species from a common ancestor.
ba.. Carbon Dating - What are the facts? What are the assumptions? How accurate is
this popular dating technique? Decide for yourself.
bb.. DNA Double Helix Video - Watch this awesome video clip of the spinning DNA
double helix. Does it point to an act of random evolution or intelligent design? See
the process of transcription and translation. You be the judge. What do the experts
think?
bc.. Creation Of Life - The "spark and soup" experiments of the 1950's. Proof for
the creation of life in a "random" laboratory experiment?
bd.. Theory Of Evolution - Macro-Evolution. A gradual process in which something
changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
be.. Big Bang Theory - The generally accepted theory of the origin of the universe.
Check it out for yourself.
bf.. All About Science - Can science help us understand life and our reason for
living? Can new technologies help us understand ourselves better?
bg.. Evidence For Evolution - Have we found the missing link? Is there even such a
thing?
bh.. Dragon History - Are the dinosaurs in our fossil record really the dragons of
the Bible?
bi.. Evolution Vs. Creation - The Great Debate over the Model of Origins: the
theories, contentions, and evidence. The lack of evidence and the resolution.
bj.. Problems With The Fossil Record - Based on Darwin's own words, his theory of
macro-evolutionary progression fails if we don't find evidence in the fossil record.
bk.. The Flood - What do the latest in science and technology tell us about the
biblical record?
bl.. Second Law of Thermodynamics Video - Watch this awesome video clip on the huge
number of perfect settings needed to sustain life on earth. Are these things random
happenstance or designed? You decide!
bm.. Uniformitarianism - This geological doctrine is often described with the
familiar slogan: the present is the key to the past.
bn.. Origin Of Species - The core text of evolutionary theory today. What's
happened in the last 150 years?
bo.. Fossil Record - Since Darwin put forth his evolutionary theory, scientists
have sought fossil evidence indicating past organic transitions. Where's the evidence
leading?
bp.. Big Bang Theory Video - Stream this short video on the big bang theory.
Explore alternatives to our ultimate question of origins. Where did life come from?
bq.. Age Of Earth - Why does the age of the Earth matter? What are the two
worldviews? Are we being educated or indoctrinated?
br.. Origin Of Life - Where did it all come from? Why did it all start?
bs.. Origin of Species Video - Check out this incredible video clip of the
Lampsillis Mussle. Is there a logical explanation for how evolution could explain the
creation of this mussle?
bt.. Anthropic Principle Video - What does the fine-tuning inherent in our universe
say about the Big Bang, Origin of Life, and other theories? Stream this short video
clip now!
bu.. Miller and Urey Video - How do we get from the sparks of life created by
Miller and Urey to the miracle of complex life? Check out this short video clip now!
bv.. Human Eye Function Video - What do organic subsystems reveal about Irreducible
Complexity and Intelligent Design? Why is the human eye impossible? Stream this video
clip now!
bw.. Frog Soup Video - What do frogs in blenders reveal about the complexity of
life? Is life really a miracle? You have to check out this short video clip!
bx.. Evolutionary Perspective Video - Are there philosophical leaps in evolutionary
science? How does evolution deal with the first organisms that arose by chance? You
gotta stream this video!
by.. DNA and Computers Video - What is the greatest scientific discovery ever? What
do we know about the digital code inherent in all living things? Watch this
incredible video clip now!
bz.. SETI Project Video - What impact does the Search for Extra-Terrestrial
Intelligence have on Intelligent Design Theory? Has anything been discovered? Check
this short video out!
ca.. Cosmogony Video - What caused the Origin of Everything? What are the
prevailing cosmogonies, theories, and philosophies of the day?
Does God Exist - A Scientific Inquiry
Does God Exist? The other day I was asked to prove the existence of God. It was a
one-on-one conversation with a skeptical friend, who somehow thrust the burden of
proof on me. He didn't want the religious, moral or philosophical arguments -- He
wanted the scientific "proof."
Does God Exist - Is a Scientific Approach Possible?
When it comes to the question, "Does God Exist," there are really only two possible
conclusions: God either is, or He isn't. There's no half-way. There's no sliding
scale. Whether you're an atheist or whether you're a theist, there's a certain level
of knowledge, and there's a certain level of faith.
I thought for a moment. Can I prove the existence of God -- scientifically? In my
religious/moral/philosophical experience, He's been proven to me. However, my friend
hasn't walked the same journey as me. He wants the facts -- he wants the naturalistic
proof for a supernatural reality.
I came to the conclusion that my friend's question was a fair one. He deserved my
best attempt at an answer. So, I gave it a shot.
Does God Exist - A Scientific Examination of the Evidence
God may not be provable through mathematical formulae or properties of physics, but
we live in an era where the evidence of an Intelligent Designer is all around us.
Just look through the Hubble Telescope and peer to the edge of the massive cosmos.
View the monitor of an electron-scanning microscope and delve into the intricate
world of a microscopic cell. Try to comprehend the massive library of complex
information inherent in the digital code that turns a fertilized egg into a human
being. Study principles of quantum mechanics and investigate the world of
extra-dimensionality. Review the nature of your conscience, subconscious, standards
of morality, and thoughts of religion. Then, try to reconcile all of these realities
with a basic theory of randomness and chaos.
Based on what we know today, I truly believe that atheism (not believing in any kind
of god) is a much bigger "leap of faith" than theism (believing that some kind of god
exists).
I asked my friend, "Have you really thought about some of the evidences for God? Or,
are you presupposing a purely naturalistic world, and closing your eyes to some of
the possible evidence? If I propose some observational evidence, are you even open to
examining it?"
My friend asked me to go on. So, here's my attempt at some basic scientific
observations that point to God:
a.. Causation. God provides the best explanation for the existence of the universe
and all that's in it. (The alternative theory is that "nothing" exploded and resulted
in everything that we see.)
b.. Order. God provides the best explanation for abstract notions such as numbers,
mathematical formulae, chemical-based processes, and natural laws. (The alternative
theory is that the chaotic first elements ordered themselves into complex information
systems.)
c.. Design. God provides the best explanation for the absolute complexity inherent
in cosmological, stellar, planetary, chemical and biological systems. (The
alternative theory is that random chance engineered apparent design.)
d.. Encoded Instructions. God provides the best explanation for the digital DNA
code contained in and controlling the functions of all life on earth. (The
alternative theory is that complex code, such as binary code running computers, can
pop into existence without any kind of programming, testing and debugging process.)
e.. Irreducible Complexity. God provides the best explanation for fully functioning
biological organisms, systems, and subsystems that couldn't come about through
gradual evolutionary process without totally ceasing to exist at lower, evolutionary
levels. (The alternative theory is that biological systems took huge, unseen leaps
from simple to complex without any guided process or forward-looking instructions.)
f.. Duality. God provides the best explanation for the separate human functions of
brain and conscience (matter and mind). (The alternative theory is monism -- only
matter exists and the human brain only appears to have a separate subconscious
ability.)
g.. Morality. God provides the best explanation for the existence of love, emotion,
altruism, and inherent moral/ethical values throughout the world. (The alternative
theory is that unguided materialistic processes evolve higher human consciousness.)
Does God Exist - A Scientific Conclusion
When it comes to the question of "Does God Exist," there are only two scientific
worldviews -- Someone/Something did it, or it did itself. Whether it's the beginning
of the cosmos or the beginning of life, the beginning of mankind or the beginning of
mind, either Someone/Something is responsible for everything we see or it's
responsible for itself.
"Does God Exist?" Is this really a question for science at all? Actually, it seems
this is a matter of forensic science, since we can't re-create the birth of the
universe or the formation of first life in a laboratory. Therefore, we collect the
observable evidence in our world and apply our forensic investigation skills to
analyze its collective meaning. In the end, we all need to collect and examine the
evidence for ourselves. Ultimately, whether couched as scientific inquiry or purely
religious/moral/philosophical faith, it's not a matter for the laboratory. It's a
personal, investigative decision for each and every one of us.
Does God Exist - The Big Questions
Does God exist? An answer to this fundamental question is a prerequisite for
answering the other big questions of life: Where did we come from? Why are we here?
Do we serve a purpose? Do we have any intrinsic value? What happens after we die? The
question of the existence of God is fundamental.
Does God Exist - A Philosophical Issue
Before we ask the question "Does God exist?" we first have to deal with our
philosophical predispositions. If, for example, I am already dedicated to the
philosophical idea that nothing can exist outside of the natural realm (i.e. there
can be no supernatural God), no amount of evidence could convince me otherwise.
Asking the question "does God exist?" would be pointless. My answer would be "No, He
doesn't," regardless of whether God truly exists or not. The question would be
impossible to answer from an evidentiary standpoint simply because anything which God
might have done (that is, any supernatural act which might serve as evidence for His
existence) would have to be explained away in terms of natural causes, not because we
know what those natural causes could possibly be, but simply because a supernatural
God is not allowed to exist!
Dr. Richard Lewontin, the Alexander Agassiz Professor of Zoology at Harvard
University, put it like this: "It is not that the methods and institutions of science
somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on
the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to
create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material
explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the
uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine
Foot in the door" (Richard Lewontin, "Billions and Billions of Demons," New York
Review of Books, January 9, 1997, p. 28).
If, on the other hand, I were neutral, and didn't already have an "a priori
adherence" to a particular worldview (be it naturalistic or otherwise), the question
"does God really exist?" wouldn't be pointless at all. Rather, it would be the first
step in an objective and meaningful search for ultimate truth. Our willingness to ask
the question with an open mind is fundamental to our ability to discover the truth
behind the answer. So first of all, before you even ask the question, decide whether
or not you're really willing to accept the answer.
Does God Exist - Things to Consider
Once you're ready to ask the question, "does God exist?" here are a few observations
to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:
a.. Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe
did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
b.. Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded
in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands
upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information
requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
c.. Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising
from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In
fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via
unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?
d.. The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and
what purpose do they serve?
e.. Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible
explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right
and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?
f.. People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and
old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally
experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these
prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and
other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be
sure, but is there something more?
If your curiosity has been piqued and you desire to look into this matter further, we
recommend that you consider the world's assortment of so-called Holy Books. If God
does exist, has He revealed Himself? And if He has revealed Himself, surely He
exists...
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: DO atheists exist scientifically? |
22 Oct 2007 08:00:15 AM |
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<akwarius@tele2.fr> wrote
snip
Thank you. So, Sorry, but, how can you manage the belief or idea of an all
powerful being, so God, if you admit that his reality depends on your
awereness ?
In English, please.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: DO atheists exist scientifically? |
23 Oct 2007 07:20:22 AM |
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:00:15 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
<akwarius@tele2.fr> wrote
snip
Thank you. So, Sorry, but, how can you manage the belief or idea of an all
powerful being, so God, if you admit that his reality depends on your
awereness ?
In English, please.
Or French.
Anything but raving gobbdlegook...
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: DO atheists exist scientifically? |
20 Oct 2007 08:00:33 PM |
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On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:28:26 +0200, "akwarius@tele2.fr"
<akwarius@tele2.fr> wrote:
What about god or God
What about your delusion?
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"So much blood has been shed by the Church because of an omission from the Gospel: "Ye
shall be indifferent as to what your neighbor's religion is." Not merely tolerant of it,
but indifferent to it. Divinity is claimed for many religions; but no religion is great
enough or divine enough to add that new law to its code."
- Mark Twain, a Biography
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| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
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| Title: Re: DO atheists exist scientifically? |
16 Oct 2007 11:44:59 PM |
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BAM:
(still awaiting that old missing
link btw.......)
Still waiting for you to complete elementary school.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: DO atheists exist scientifically? |
20 Oct 2007 09:49:28 PM |
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In article <_ZdRi.5014$5c.2814@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, BAM
<mcca5761@blahblahbellsouth.net> wrote:
"¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
news:5nb8b6Fgre8tU1@mid.individual.net...
Does God Exist Scientifically?
Does life in the womb exist scientifically? Yes.
Does the big bang exist scientifically? No.
Does Evolution exist scientifically? No. (still awaiting that old missing
link btw.......)
BAM
The Bronze Age misses you.
[But we don't, damn it.]
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: DO atheists exist scientifically? |
21 Oct 2007 06:33:10 PM |
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On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:49:28 -0700, chibiabos <chib@nospam.com> wrote:
In article <_ZdRi.5014$5c.2814@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, BAM
<mcca5761@blahblahbellsouth.net> wrote:
"¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
news:5nb8b6Fgre8tU1@mid.individual.net...
Does God Exist Scientifically?
Does life in the womb exist scientifically? Yes.
Does the big bang exist scientifically? No.
Does Evolution exist scientifically? No. (still awaiting that old missing
link btw.......)
BAM
The Bronze Age misses you.
[But we don't, damn it.]
As much as we'd like to ...
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus
was not born of a virgin."
- Cardinal Bellarmine,[1615, during the trial of Galileo]
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: DO atheists exist scientifically? |
16 Oct 2007 11:09:39 PM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, "BAM" <mcca5761@blahblahbellsouth.net>
bloodied us up with this:
"¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
news:5nb8b6Fgre8tU1@mid.individual.net...
Does God Exist Scientifically?
Does life in the womb exist scientifically? Yes.
Does the big bang exist scientifically? No.
Does Evolution exist scientifically? No. (still awaiting that old
missing link btw.......)
BAM
Still denying reality, eh BAMBAM?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: DO atheists exist scientifically? |
17 Oct 2007 12:11:17 PM |
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On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:09:39 -0500, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
[piggybacking]
One fine day in alt.atheism, "BAM" <mcca5761@blahblahbellsouth.net>
bloodied us up with this:
still awaiting that old missing link btw.......
No mirrors in your trailer?
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my
contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him, the
spinal cord would fully suffice."
- Albert Einstein
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| User: "John Smith" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 02:33:40 AM |
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"¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
news:5nb8b6Fgre8tU1@mid.individual.net...
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
"Does God Exist?" A person's foundational worldview is determined by how
you answer the question. Review the scientific and mathematical evidence
for God's existence and make a decision.
There is none.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/does-god-exist.htm
Click To Discover
a.. Does God Exist - Based on the latest scientific evidence, has atheism
become a greater leap of faith than theism?
What the hell does that mangled bull ***** have to do with the question?
Check out the evidence for the existence of God
here!
THERE AIN'T NONE!
Your crap answers are just that!
That's why mentally and personally corrupt, fanatics have to use warped
thinking to PRETEND that "Intelligent Design" is an actual fact instead of a
bellowed shell game based on fanaticism and ignorance.
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| User: "guillermina" |
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| Title: Karl Marx a deceiver Christian and later a devil worshiper |
22 Oct 2007 11:21:36 AM |
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According to some historical data, Karl Marx was a deceiver Christian
and later a devil worshiper. He was never an authentic atheist.
Most called atheists are not really atheists, they do believe in some
sort of god or gods. Those who called themselves atheist, try to lie to
others and to themselves, therefore, live in a illusion.
http://forerunner.com/predvestnik/X0013_Karl_Marx.html
In Spanish
http://www.lavozdelosmartires.com.ar/la%20otra%20cara%20de%20karl%
20marx.htm
--
http://www.elcanusa.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Karl Marx a deceiver Christian and later a devil worshiper |
22 Oct 2007 11:46:25 AM |
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"guillermina" <gmanon@gmanon.com> wrote in message
news:1193070090.5351.26.camel@ggonjon-laptop...
snip
Most called atheists are not really atheists, they do believe in some
sort of god or gods. Those who called themselves atheist, try to lie to
others and to themselves, therefore, live in a illusion.
Uh huh. What orifice did you pull this load out of?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: Karl Marx a deceiver Christian and later a devil worshiper |
22 Oct 2007 08:00:07 PM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5o42bkFkq42cU1@mid.individual.net...
"guillermina" <gmanon@gmanon.com> wrote in message
news:1193070090.5351.26.camel@ggonjon-laptop...
snip
Most called atheists are not really atheists, they do believe in some
sort of god or gods. Those who called themselves atheist, try to lie to
others and to themselves, therefore, live in a illusion.
Uh huh. What orifice did you pull this load out of?
The article says:
" We've heard that Marx was a deep humanitarian; that he was possessed by
the idea of helping the oppressed masses. His belief: The reason behind
oppression is capitalism. As soon as this putrid system is destroyed after
the time of proletariat's rule, a new society will appear in which everyone
will work and receive according to their needs. There will be neither a
state that represses individuality, nor war or revolution, but a world-wide
brotherhood of nations lasting forever."
The article goes on to say that Marx was a Christian in his early years, but
that he later claimed to be an atheist and it implies that he participated
in a satanic ritual "followed by an orgy".
One of my early posts to this group which turned into a rather long thread
claimed that Marx was a Christian. How much of the stuff in the linked
article is factually based, I have no idea. An orgy sounds like fun, but
satanic rituals would make it hardly worth the trouble. Maybe people like
Marx were so horny they would put up with Satanism just to get laid. I am
about to print out the article to read it opffline, as it goes into
Leninism, which seems to be practiced by the current Administration, i.e.,
top-down governance. that would explain the initial, atleast hostility to
environmentalism, until the Repuiblicans could figure out a way to try to be
in charge of it themselves. Environmentalism is a threat to those who fear
change intitiated from the "grass roots". Most environmentalists are
phenomenologically inspired in that they see detrimental changes around them
and want to stop them.
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| User: "ike milligan" |
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| Title: Re: Karl Marx (correction) |
22 Oct 2007 08:40:52 PM |
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"ike milligan" <accordiondoc@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:13hqht5h5d9g6bd@corp.supernews.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote in message
news:5o42bkFkq42cU1@mid.individual.net...
"guillermina" <gmanon@gmanon.com> wrote in message
news:1193070090.5351.26.camel@ggonjon-laptop...
snip
The article goes on to say that Marx was a Christian in his early years,
but that he later claimed to be an atheist and it implies that he
participated in a satanic ritual "followed by an orgy".
Actually the article says that he wrote a play where there was a Satanic
ritual followed by an orgy. Doesn't say he was in the ritual or the orgy.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Karl Marx a deceiver Christian and later a devil worshiper |
23 Oct 2007 08:48:24 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:46:25 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"guillermina" <gmanon@gmanon.com> wrote in message
news:1193070090.5351.26.camel@ggonjon-laptop...
snip
Most called atheists are not really atheists, they do believe in some
sort of god or gods. Those who called themselves atheist, try to lie to
others and to themselves, therefore, live in a illusion.
Uh huh. What orifice did you pull this load out of?
Not his *****, that's for sure. Even an ***** is smarter than that.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"Does it ever amaze anyone else how little faith some heterosexuals have
in heterosexuality? It's supposed to be this god-given human instinct
that only the warped and perverted ever stray from; but, it seems, if we
once tell our straight children a message even as mild as "some people
are gay, and that's all right," that'll be enough to send lil' Suzy into
the arms of women forever. It's a wonder the race has survived this
long, really..."
- Charles M Seaton (21 Dec 1994)
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| User: "Don Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Karl Marx a deceiver Christian and later a devil worshiper |
22 Oct 2007 08:49:32 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:46:25 -0400, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com>
wrote:
"guillermina" <gmanon@gmanon.com> wrote in message
news:1193070090.5351.26.camel@ggonjon-laptop...
snip
Most called atheists are not really atheists, they do believe in some
sort of god or gods. Those who called themselves atheist, try to lie to
others and to themselves, therefore, live in a illusion.
Uh huh. What orifice did you pull this load out of?
Sadly, the one he "thinks" with.
WOA (Wicked Old Atheist) #2278
If you can't be a dirty old man, what is the point of being an old man?
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
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| User: "Kenneth Doyle" |
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| Title: Re: Karl Marx a deceiver Christian and later a devil worshiper |
22 Oct 2007 08:54:20 PM |
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guillermina <gmanon@gmanon.com> wrote in
news:1193070090.5351.26.camel@ggonjon-laptop:
According to some historical data, Karl Marx was a deceiver Christian
and later a devil worshiper. He was never an authentic atheist.
Most called atheists are not really atheists, they do believe in some
sort of god or gods. Those who called themselves atheist, try to lie to
others and to themselves, therefore, live in a illusion.
http://forerunner.com/predvestnik/X0013_Karl_Marx.html
In Spanish
http://www.lavozdelosmartires.com.ar/la%20otra%20cara%20de%20karl%
20marx.htm
Yeah well, as they say in China, get a dog up ya!
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| User: "Davej" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
14 Oct 2007 10:56:03 AM |
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On Oct 13, 1:53 am, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <ul...@man.jp> wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
"Does God Exist?" A person's foundational worldview is determined
by how you answe the question. Review the scientific and
mathematical evidence for God's existence and make a decision.
[...]
Yes, make a decision, and remember that Religion is an industry that
needs your money. More churches need to be built. More satin robes
need to be sewn.
When we look at Nature, we see no evidence of a "loving God." There is
vast suffering built in. Why didn't Jesus visit the leper colonies and
cure all the lepers? Why did he only cure those who came to him and
begged? Was he too busy? What did he do in all those years before he
started preaching?
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| User: "Rock Brentwood" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
16 Oct 2007 04:40:07 PM |
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On Oct 13, 1:53 am, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <ul...@man.jp> wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
"Does God Exist?" A person's foundational worldview is determined by how =
you answer
the question. Review the scientific andmathematicalevidence for God's exi=
stence and
make a decision.
A mathematical proof requires a precise definition of what it is whose
existence you're trying to prove!
Similarly, a precise indication of "atheism" requires first a precise
indication of what "-theo-" the "a" is against in this "ism". If your
"-theo-" is the wrong one, then it's not actually "atheism", but
"aWhatIMistakenlyThoughTheoWasButActuallyIsntism", which isn't
actually an anythingism at all.
So, in fact, there is a much deeper distinction that underlies the
theism-vs-atheism divide: the IDoKnowWhatTheoIsism vs.
IDontEvenKnowWhatTheoIsism divide. The latter group is further
sundered into IThinkIKnowWhatTheoIsButActuallyDontism vs. the
IKnowThatIDontEvenKnowWhatTheoIsism divide.
And this is before you even get to gnosticism vs. agnosticism, since
the latter is IKnowWhatTheoIsButDontKnowIfItExistsism and requires the
IKnowWhatTheoIsism prerequisite, which almost nobody qualifies for.
Almost all people who call themselves theists or atheists are actually
in the second group: IThinkIKnowWhatTheoIsButActuallyDontism and are
therefore not qualified to be either agnostic, theist or atheist! They
are, in actualy fact, none of the above, but just think they are.
Those in group 3 are none of the above and know that they're none of
the above.
And since almost nobody is in the IDoKnowWhatTheoIsism group, then it
suffices to say that almost nobody has even the prerequisite required
to be ANY of the three groups: theist, atheist or agnostic. So, almost
everybody is none of the above.
Now ... to answer your question. If you're of the monistic pantheistic
persuasion then you're in the IDoKnowWhatTheoIsism group. In that
case, a mathematical proof of the existence of God is tantamount to a
complete resolution of the problem of determining what, if any, law
governs this universe and all the phenomena contained therein.
Thus, all Theoretical Physicists are (even unbeknownst to themselves)
agnostics, aspiring to resolve their uncertainty either in favor of
theism or atheism ... and nobody but Theoretical Physicists are
agnostic, theist or atheist.
.
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| User: "Rock Brentwood" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
16 Oct 2007 04:46:02 PM |
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On Oct 16, 4:40 pm, Rock Brentwood <markw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Now ... to answer your question. If you're of the monistic pantheistic
persuasion ...
Buddhists might fit that mould. But it's hard to tell how much they
lean toward monism and away from dualism. However, pantheism is,
without a doubt, a central feature of the enterprise.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 04:34:01 PM |
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On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:53:27 -0600, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp>
wrote:
Does God Exist - A Scientific Examination of the Evidence
God may not be provable through mathematical formulae or properties of physics
Then it doesn't objectively exist.
I asked my friend, "Have you really thought about some of the evidences for God?
Objective evidence? There is none.
a.. Causation. God provides the best explanation for the existence of the universe
and all that's in it.
Causation is a property of the universe. We have no evidence that it
needed to *be* caused.
(The alternative theory is that "nothing" exploded and resulted
in everything that we see.)
Since the Big Bang wasn't an explosion, no.
b.. Order.
In comparison to what other universe is this one ordered? If you have
none with which to compare it, you can't tell if it's more or less
ordered than one known to be not created.
c.. Design
You can't show design before you first show a designer, which is what
you're trying to prove. Petitio principii.
d.. Encoded Instructions. God provides the best explanation for the digital DNA
code
The best one other than evolution, which provides a MUCH simpler one.
"What doesn't work doesn't survive, so what we see must be what
worked."
e.. Irreducible Complexity
No such thing. Behe is an idiot. (His classic example, the
mousetrap, is easily refuted by a 5 year old - the base is useful as a
piece of wood, by itself, long before the mousetrap is invented.)
f.. Duality. God provides the best explanation for the separate human functions of
brain and conscience
Assuming they ARE separate functions, which they aren't. That would
be the fallacy of inventing reality to match your assertion.
g.. Morality
Evolution, again, is the best explanation. Morality is one of those
things that works. (Too bad it exists in such a small percentage of
the population.)
"Does God Exist?" Is this really a question for science at all?
"Objectively exist"? Of course. If something objectively exists,
there's objective evidence of that existence. Where's the OBJECTIVE
evidence of any god? (None of the above assertions is objective
evidence.)
Does God Exist - The Big Questions
Does God exist? An answer to this fundamental question is a prerequisite for
answering the other big questions of life: Where did we come from?
Our parents.
Why are we here?
Prerequisite: Proof that there IS a reason.
Do we serve a purpose?
Why does it matter if we (or worms or bacteria) serve a purpose other
than our own?
Do we have any intrinsic value?
About US$5, with the falling value of the dollar.
What happens after we die?
That's what happens. We die. Like the light when we turn the power
to the bulb off.
The question of the existence of God is fundamental.
The question of the existence of God is totally irrelevant to sane
adults until there's objective evidence, at which time there's no
longer any question.
Does God Exist - A Philosophical Issue
Before we ask the question "Does God exist?" we first have to deal with our
philosophical predispositions.
No, first we have to dispose of philosophy. We're talking about
OBJECTIVE existence. No one argues that no one believes in God.
If, on the other hand, I were neutral, and didn't already have an "a priori
adherence" to a particular worldview (be it naturalistic or otherwise), the question
"does God really exist?"
.... wouldn't arise. Unless you had an a priori belief in gods.
Does God Exist - Things to Consider
Once you're ready to ask the question, "does God exist?" here are a few observations
to consider as you begin your search for an objective answer:
There's only one, really:
Objective evidence:
Since there is none, there's nothing else to consider.
a.. Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe
did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.
No, it shows that, most likely, not "in fact", there was a moment when
the universe assumed its current configuration. Since it's impossible
to even conjecture what happened "before" that, science doesn't even
address it.
b.. Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded
in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands
upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information
requires intelligence and design requires a designer.
But you have yet to prove "intelligence" or "design". Again, petitio
principii.
c.. Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising
from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical.
And we had 500 million years in which it could occur. That would be
at least 1.5*10^46 chemical reactions before life occurred, and we
only needed one. Truly an astronomical number.
In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via
unintelligent processes.
They aren't even sure YOU could have been born. Science isn't "Sure".
If you want surety stick with religion. If you want reality stick
with science.
d.. The universe is ordered by natural laws.
"Natural laws" are observations made by people, not rules by which the
universe must exist.
Where did these laws come from
The people who formulated them.
and what purpose do they serve?
Making sense of what we see.
e.. Philosophers agree
about a lot of totally inane things. Philosophy isn't objective
evidence about what it makes things up about. (And that's ALL
philosophy is - making things up.)
f.. People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and
old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally
experienced something of the supernatural.
That only proves that there are ignorant people of every race, creed,
color and culture.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"One man's religion is another man's belly laugh"
- Robert Heinlein
.
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| User: "_ Prof. Jonez _" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 05:59:40 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote:
Does God Exist - A Scientific Examination of the Evidence
God may not be provable through mathematical formulae or properties of physics
<snip>
c.. Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life
arising
from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are
astronomical.
And we had 500 million years in which it could occur. That would be
at least 1.5*10^46 chemical reactions before life occurred, and we
only needed one. Truly an astronomical number.
Thank god we have astronomers then, eh?
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 02:13:54 AM |
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On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:53:27 -0600, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp>
wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
.
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| User: "¥ UltraMan ¥" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 05:14:35 AM |
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"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:g0s0h3p03oufdf66mnhec3co5hkhsfh1g7@4ax.com...
"¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
Bad news for The Church of Christ Scientist eh ?
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 04:52:12 PM |
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On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 04:14:35 -0600, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:g0s0h3p03oufdf66mnhec3co5hkhsfh1g7@4ax.com...
"Å UltraMan ? <ultra@man.jp> wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
Bad news for The Church of Christ Scientist eh ?
It would be, if they listened to evidence, and respected reality, but
if they did that, they wouls become atheists.
.
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| User: "_ Prof. Jonez _" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 06:02:42 PM |
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"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:5ff2h3p19114dfrlclndj9s9g44ui7s7re@4ax.com...
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 04:14:35 -0600, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp>
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
"SUltraMan ? <ultra@man.jp> wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
Bad news for The Church of Christ Scientist eh ?
It would be, if they listened to evidence, and respected reality, but
if they did that, they wouls become atheists.
So then they'd be The Church of Atheist Scientist ...
I like that, it's kinda catchy.
.
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| User: "Logician" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 05:31:40 AM |
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On Oct 13, 8:13 am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:53:27 -0600, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <ul...@man.jp>
wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
Funny that you are both discussing something that does not exist!
Since you are dicussing it, it must exist (that is basic logic). It
may exist only in the Bible, and other peoples, but that is a form of
existance.
I think what you are really asking is something more than does God
exist, but how was the world made, is there life after death, and
similar questions. The word God is said to answer all such questions.
So the word really means what we don't know.
So the answer is yes God (clearly) does exist, and you need to ask the
right question.
.
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| User: "John Smith" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 12:14:43 PM |
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"Logician" <sales@logicians.com> wrote in message
news:1192271500.799631.170120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 13, 8:13 am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:53:27 -0600, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ul...@man.jp>
wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
Funny that you are both discussing something that does not exist!
Since you are dicussing it, it must exist (that is basic logic).
No; it's blatant stupidity.
.
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| User: "_ Prof. Jonez _" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 05:43:36 PM |
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"John Smith" <bobsyoungbro@yahoo.com> wrote
"Logician" <sales@logicians.com> wrote in message On Oct 13, 8:13 am, Michael
Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:53:27 -0600, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ul...@man.jp>
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
Funny that you are both discussing something that does not exist!
Since you are dicussing it, it must exist (that is basic logic).
For a stump-stupid religious imbecile perhaps that smells like "logic" ...
to the rest of the enlightened world, it's the festering pile of excrement
it's always been.
.
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| User: "Logician" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 03:55:25 PM |
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On 13 Oct, 18:14, "John Smith" <bobsyoung...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Logician" <sa...@logicians.com> wrote in message
news:1192271500.799631.170120@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 13, 8:13 am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:53:27 -0600, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <ul...@man.jp>
wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
Funny that you are both discussing something that does not exist!
Since you are dicussing it, it must exist (that is basic logic).
No; it's blatant stupidity.
You claim God does not exist "at all" so the word refers to something
that does not exist at all? You think that's logical?
.
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| User: "_ Prof. Jonez _" |
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| Title: Re: ~~ Does God Exist Scientifically? <= allaboutgod.com says so ~~ |
13 Oct 2007 05:48:30 PM |
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"Logician" <sales@logicians.com> wrote in message
On 13 Oct, 18:14, "John Smith" <bobsyoung...@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Logician" <sa...@logicians.com> wrote in message
On Oct 13, 8:13 am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:53:27 -0600, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ul...@man.jp>
wrote:
Does God Exist Scientifically?
No.
He does not exist at all, let alone 'scientifically'.
Funny that you are both discussing something that does not exist!
Since you are dicussing it, it must exist (that is basic logic).
No; it's blatant stupidity.
:You claim God does not exist "at all"
It's all or nothing, jackass. God can't "partially" exist,
just like your sister can't be half-pregnant. Either she is
or she isn't.
: so the word refers to something that does not exist at all? You think that's
logical?
When you get past grammar school English, you'll comprehend
that A-Theism is the antonym to the word "Theism", so whatever
you want to define as theism, then atheism is the complete
absence of that quality.
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