** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult **


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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "¥ UltraMan ¥"
Date: 19 Jun 2007 03:14:28 PM
Object: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult **
Some Mormons Worry as Faith Comes Under Scrutiny
Mitt Romney's Presidential Rivals Have Used His Mormon Faith for Negative
Campaigning
June 19, 2007 -
In recent weeks, two of Mitt Romney's Republican rivals have apologized
after staffers sent out e-mails questioning basic tenets of Mormonism.
As Romney continues his quest for the presidential nomination, his faith is
likely to come under increasing scrutiny.
It's not the first time a candidate's faith has been a factor for voters. It
happened for Catholics in 1960 when John F. Kennedy ran for president, and
it happened for Orthodox Jews when Joe Lieberman ran for vice president in
2000.
Mormonism's moment in the spotlight brings a mixture of pride and anxiety
for members of the church.
Some Mormons worry about a resurgence of the type of bigotry the church has
faced since it was founded 177 years ago by Joseph Smith, who was later
killed by an angry mob.
Will Mormon Faith Hurt Romney?
Perhaps the biggest misconception about Mormons is that they're polygamists,
as portrayed in the HBO series "Big Love."
In fact, the church gave up polygamy in 1890. It is now only practiced by a
small group of so-called Mormon fundamentalists.
Nonetheless, some Mormons were offended when Romney harshly criticized
polygamy on "60 Minutes."
"I must admit, I can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy," Romney
said on the TV show.
John Dehlin, a Mormon businessman and journalist who runs a Web site called
mormonstories.org, said the remark was offensive.
"There are many Mormons who, while they don't practice polygamy, are very
proud of their ancestry. So to hear him so summarily dismiss or disparage
the practice of polygamy is hurtful," Dehlin said.
Other Mormon beliefs may provoke uncomfortable questions for Romney. For
example, Mormons believe God was once a human being. Mormons also believe in
symbolically baptizing the dead even if they're members of other religions.
Up until 1978, including a time during which Romney was prominent in the
church, black people had second-class status. Mormons used to teach that
blacks had dark skin because of a curse from God.
"These past statements haunt our people and they will haunt Mitt Romney,"
Dehlin said.
Dehlin, who is sometimes critical of the church, points out that Christian
politicians aren't often asked about Old Testament passages that condone
slavery.
"Every religion has skeletons in its historical closet," Dehlin said. "The
only difference is that Mormonism is less familiar."
Some people believe it's unfair for Romney to be forced to essentially
become a spokesman for his faith. Others argue that Romney is running for
the highest office in the land as a man of faith and that scrutiny comes
with the territory.
.

User: "•R L Measures"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 21 Jun 2007 08:12:01 PM
In article <AoCei.5789$c06.4240@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>, "Kris Baker"
<kris.baker@prodigyyy.net> wrote:

"•R L Measures" <r@somis.org> wrote in message
news:r-2006072016570001@192.168.1.100...

In article <5dsqevF34fnhvU1@mid.individual.net>, "¥ UltraMan ¥"
<ultra@man.jp> wrote:

.R L Measures wrote:

In article <5dqos4F352jb9U1@mid.individual.net>, "¥ UltraMan ¥"
<ultra@man.jp> wrote:

Yahoo message boards were best wrote:

¥ UltraMan ¥ wrote:

Some Mormons Worry as Faith Comes Under Scrutiny
Mitt Romney's Presidential Rivals Have Used His Mormon Faith for
Negative Campaigning
June 19, 2007 -


In recent weeks, two of Mitt Romney's Republican rivals have
apologized after staffers sent out e-mails questioning basic tenets
of Mormonism. As Romney continues his quest for the presidential
nomination, his
faith is likely to come under increasing scrutiny.

It's not the first time a candidate's faith has been a factor for
voters. It happened for Catholics in 1960 when John F. Kennedy ran
for president, and it happened for Orthodox Jews when Joe Lieberman
ran for vice president in 2000.

Mormonism's moment in the spotlight brings a mixture of pride and
anxiety for members of the church.

Some Mormons worry about a resurgence of the type of bigotry the
church has faced since it was founded 177 years ago by Joseph
Smith, who was later killed by an angry mob.


Will Mormon Faith Hurt Romney?
Perhaps the biggest misconception about Mormons is that they're
polygamists, as portrayed in the HBO series "Big Love."

In fact, the church gave up polygamy in 1890. It is now only
practiced by a small group of so-called Mormon fundamentalists.


Wrong, wrong, wrong.

** Indeed. The LDS church issued plural marriage permits up until 1906.


What about multiple partners in the afterlife?

** The two teenguy LDS missionaries I interviewed stated that God /
Elohim assigns each guy with the quantity of females that He deems
appropriate. I asked how man and they relied "possibly hundreds" with a
Broad (pun intended) smile on their faces.
.
User: "Darn CWs"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 22 Jun 2007 09:21:31 PM
In article <r-2106071812020001@192.168.1.100>,
(•R L Measures)
wrote:

** The two teenguy LDS missionaries I interviewed stated that God /
Elohim assigns each guy with the quantity of females that He deems
appropriate. I asked how man and they relied "possibly hundreds" with a
Broad (pun intended) smile on their faces.

Can you imagine 10 wives? All the nagging? Good lord!!
--
RECALL SCIENTOLOGIST CULTIST SHERIFF LEE "Caca" BACA for ParisGate!!
Ever Notice How Paris Hilton and Ronald Mcdonald ARE NEVER IN
THE SAME ROOM TOGETHER?? <GASP!!>
.
User: "•R L Measures"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 23 Jun 2007 08:50:04 AM
In article <None-2206071921310001@c-76-105-24-75.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>,
None@none.com (Darn CWs) wrote:

In article <r-2106071812020001@192.168.1.100>,

(•R L Measures)
wrote:

** The two teenguy LDS missionaries I interviewed stated that God /
Elohim assigns each guy with the quantity of females that He deems
appropriate. I asked how man and they relied "possibly hundreds" with a
Broad (pun intended) smile on their faces.


Can you imagine 10 wives? All the nagging? Good lord!!

• Indeed. Worse yet, imagine the unrest if one of the ten wants more
sausage than the rest. Of course, when I was 19 I could forsee this not.
.



User: "john p"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 21 Jun 2007 01:22:59 AM
On Jun 20, 7:16 pm,
(=B7R L Measures) wrote:

=B7 If Mitt gets 5% of the primary vote I will be surprised.

I wouldn't. Buch got elected--twice.
John P
--
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I
consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile."
-Kurt Vonnegut
.
User: "James Norris"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 21 Jun 2007 02:06:32 AM
On Jun 21, 7:22=EF=BF=BDam, john p <john.ph...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jun 20, 7:16 pm,

(=B7R L Measures) wrote:

=B7 =A0If Mitt gets 5% of the primary vote I will be surprised.


I wouldn't. =A0Buch got elected--twice.

John P
--
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I
consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile."

-Kurt Vonnegut

I have to say that your insightful and well-written remarks about this
complex topic really impressed me. Your have restored my faith in
usenet newsgroups as a medium for meaningful discussions between
intelligent human beings. Well done!
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
"If one doesn't clean the windows, the cat will be perplexed!"
Albert Einstein
http://archetype.com/macro_001.html
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
.


User: "DianaC"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 08:02:29 PM
On Jun 19, 3:24 pm, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

Yahoo message boards were best wrote:





=A5 UltraMan =A5 wrote:

Some Mormons Worry as Faith Comes Under Scrutiny
Mitt Romney's Presidential Rivals Have Used HisMormonFaith for
Negative Campaigning
June 19, 2007 -


In recent weeks, two of Mitt Romney's Republican rivals have
apologized after staffers sent out e-mails questioning basic tenets
of Mormonism. As Romney continues his quest for the presidential
nomination, his
faith is likely to come under increasing scrutiny.


It's not the first time a candidate's faith has been a factor for
voters. It happened for Catholics in 1960 when John F. Kennedy ran
for president, and it happened for Orthodox Jews when Joe Lieberman
ran for vice president in 2000.


Mormonism's moment in the spotlight brings a mixture of pride and
anxiety for members of the church.


Some Mormons worry about a resurgence of the type of bigotry the
church has faced since it was founded 177 years ago by Joseph Smith,
who was later killed by an angry mob.


WillMormonFaith Hurt Romney?
Perhaps the biggest misconception about Mormons is that they're
polygamists, as portrayed in the HBO series "Big Love."


In fact, the church gave up polygamy in 1890. It is now only
practiced by a small group of so-calledMormonfundamentalists.


Nonetheless, some Mormons were offended when Romney harshly
criticized polygamy on "60 Minutes."


"I must admit, I can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy,"
Romney said on the TV show.


John Dehlin, aMormonbusinessman and journalist who runs a Web site
called mormonstories.org, said the remark was offensive.


"There are many Mormons who, while they don't practice polygamy, are
very proud of their ancestry. So to hear him so summarily dismiss or
disparage the practice of polygamy is hurtful," Dehlin said.


OtherMormonbeliefs may provoke uncomfortable questions for Romney.
For example, Mormons believe God was once a human being. Mormons
also believe in symbolically baptizing the dead even if they're
members of other religions. Up until 1978, including a time during whi=

ch

Romney was prominent in
the church, black people had second-class status. Mormons used to
teach that blacks had dark skin because of a curse from God.


I don't believe that teaching has changed, for that would involve
changing the Book ofMormon, the revealed Word of God.


In the Book ofMormon, dark skin is a sign of disfavor in the eyes of
God. The darker the skin, the deeper the disfavor. It almost makes the
Christian Identity movement look benign.


And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

..=2E.and being that Mormons "hold" no such thing, the situation will not
arise.
<snip to end>
.
User: "Yahoo message boards were best"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 08:17:53 PM
DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 3:24 pm, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

Yahoo message boards were best wrote:





¥ UltraMan ¥ wrote:

Some Mormons Worry as Faith Comes Under Scrutiny
Mitt Romney's Presidential Rivals Have Used HisMormonFaith for
Negative Campaigning
June 19, 2007 -
In recent weeks, two of Mitt Romney's Republican rivals have
apologized after staffers sent out e-mails questioning basic tenets
of Mormonism. As Romney continues his quest for the presidential
nomination, his
faith is likely to come under increasing scrutiny.
It's not the first time a candidate's faith has been a factor for
voters. It happened for Catholics in 1960 when John F. Kennedy ran
for president, and it happened for Orthodox Jews when Joe Lieberman
ran for vice president in 2000.
Mormonism's moment in the spotlight brings a mixture of pride and
anxiety for members of the church.
Some Mormons worry about a resurgence of the type of bigotry the
church has faced since it was founded 177 years ago by Joseph Smith,
who was later killed by an angry mob.
WillMormonFaith Hurt Romney?
Perhaps the biggest misconception about Mormons is that they're
polygamists, as portrayed in the HBO series "Big Love."
In fact, the church gave up polygamy in 1890. It is now only
practiced by a small group of so-calledMormonfundamentalists.
Nonetheless, some Mormons were offended when Romney harshly
criticized polygamy on "60 Minutes."
"I must admit, I can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy,"
Romney said on the TV show.
John Dehlin, aMormonbusinessman and journalist who runs a Web site
called mormonstories.org, said the remark was offensive.
"There are many Mormons who, while they don't practice polygamy, are
very proud of their ancestry. So to hear him so summarily dismiss or
disparage the practice of polygamy is hurtful," Dehlin said.
OtherMormonbeliefs may provoke uncomfortable questions for Romney.
For example, Mormons believe God was once a human being. Mormons
also believe in symbolically baptizing the dead even if they're
members of other religions. Up until 1978, including a time during which
Romney was prominent in
the church, black people had second-class status. Mormons used to
teach that blacks had dark skin because of a curse from God.

I don't believe that teaching has changed, for that would involve
changing the Book ofMormon, the revealed Word of God.
In the Book ofMormon, dark skin is a sign of disfavor in the eyes of
God. The darker the skin, the deeper the disfavor. It almost makes the
Christian Identity movement look benign.

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!


...and being that Mormons "hold" no such thing, the situation will not
arise.

Oh, they can get into Heaven, alright... but only as servants.
"In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing,
if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really
converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy
Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the
celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get
celestial glory."
~Elder Mark E. Peterson, LDS Elder
http://www.lds-mormon.com/racism.shtml
.
User: "DianaC"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 09:23:25 PM
On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 3:24 pm, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

Yahoo message boards were best wrote:


=A5 UltraMan =A5 wrote:

Some Mormons Worry as Faith Comes Under Scrutiny
Mitt Romney's Presidential Rivals Have Used HisMormonFaith for
Negative Campaigning
June 19, 2007 -
In recent weeks, two of Mitt Romney's Republican rivals have
apologized after staffers sent out e-mails questioning basic tenets
of Mormonism. As Romney continues his quest for the presidential
nomination, his
faith is likely to come under increasing scrutiny.
It's not the first time a candidate's faith has been a factor for
voters. It happened for Catholics in 1960 when John F. Kennedy ran
for president, and it happened for Orthodox Jews when Joe Lieberman
ran for vice president in 2000.
Mormonism's moment in the spotlight brings a mixture of pride and
anxiety for members of the church.
Some Mormons worry about a resurgence of the type of bigotry the
church has faced since it was founded 177 years ago by Joseph Smith,
who was later killed by an angry mob.
WillMormonFaith Hurt Romney?
Perhaps the biggest misconception about Mormons is that they're
polygamists, as portrayed in the HBO series "Big Love."
In fact, the church gave up polygamy in 1890. It is now only
practiced by a small group of so-calledMormonfundamentalists.
Nonetheless, some Mormons were offended when Romney harshly
criticized polygamy on "60 Minutes."
"I must admit, I can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy,"
Romney said on the TV show.
John Dehlin, aMormonbusinessman and journalist who runs a Web site
called mormonstories.org, said the remark was offensive.
"There are many Mormons who, while they don't practice polygamy, are
very proud of their ancestry. So to hear him so summarily dismiss or
disparage the practice of polygamy is hurtful," Dehlin said.
OtherMormonbeliefs may provoke uncomfortable questions for Romney.
For example, Mormons believe God was once a human being. Mormons
also believe in symbolically baptizing the dead even if they're
members of other religions. Up until 1978, including a time during w=

hich

Romney was prominent in
the church, black people had second-class status. Mormons used to
teach that blacks had dark skin because of a curse from God.

I don't believe that teaching has changed, for that would involve
changing the Book ofMormon, the revealed Word of God.
In the Book ofMormon, dark skin is a sign of disfavor in the eyes of
God. The darker the skin, the deeper the disfavor. It almost makes the
Christian Identity movement look benign.

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!


...and being that Mormons "hold" no such thing, the situation will not
arise.


Oh, they can get into Heaven, alright... but only as servants.

"In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing,
if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really
converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy
Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the
celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get
celestial glory."

~Elder Mark E. Peterson, LDS Elder

Well, Elder Mark E. Peterson was incorrect...
He's allowed...and since the man was never a prophet or president of
the church, and the official position of the church is quite
different, don't you think that your insistance that THIS quote would
trump our scripture, our prophets and our beliefs as a whole?
Of course, your basic presentations of LDS beliefs (consisting as they
do of cherry picked quotes out of context and from incorrect sources)
is something no Mormon would recognize as theirs in the first
place...but you go on ahead; I'm only a fifth generation Mormon who
has studied her religion seriously for over forty years; how dare I
actually know what my beliefs are better than you?
Diana
.
User: "Yahoo message boards were best"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 20 Jun 2007 12:10:34 AM
DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 3:24 pm, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

Yahoo message boards were best wrote:

¥ UltraMan ¥ wrote:

Some Mormons Worry as Faith Comes Under Scrutiny
Mitt Romney's Presidential Rivals Have Used HisMormonFaith for
Negative Campaigning
June 19, 2007 -
In recent weeks, two of Mitt Romney's Republican rivals have
apologized after staffers sent out e-mails questioning basic tenets
of Mormonism. As Romney continues his quest for the presidential
nomination, his
faith is likely to come under increasing scrutiny.
It's not the first time a candidate's faith has been a factor for
voters. It happened for Catholics in 1960 when John F. Kennedy ran
for president, and it happened for Orthodox Jews when Joe Lieberman
ran for vice president in 2000.
Mormonism's moment in the spotlight brings a mixture of pride and
anxiety for members of the church.
Some Mormons worry about a resurgence of the type of bigotry the
church has faced since it was founded 177 years ago by Joseph Smith,
who was later killed by an angry mob.
WillMormonFaith Hurt Romney?
Perhaps the biggest misconception about Mormons is that they're
polygamists, as portrayed in the HBO series "Big Love."
In fact, the church gave up polygamy in 1890. It is now only
practiced by a small group of so-calledMormonfundamentalists.
Nonetheless, some Mormons were offended when Romney harshly
criticized polygamy on "60 Minutes."
"I must admit, I can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy,"
Romney said on the TV show.
John Dehlin, aMormonbusinessman and journalist who runs a Web site
called mormonstories.org, said the remark was offensive.
"There are many Mormons who, while they don't practice polygamy, are
very proud of their ancestry. So to hear him so summarily dismiss or
disparage the practice of polygamy is hurtful," Dehlin said.
OtherMormonbeliefs may provoke uncomfortable questions for Romney.
For example, Mormons believe God was once a human being. Mormons
also believe in symbolically baptizing the dead even if they're
members of other religions. Up until 1978, including a time during which
Romney was prominent in
the church, black people had second-class status. Mormons used to
teach that blacks had dark skin because of a curse from God.

I don't believe that teaching has changed, for that would involve
changing the Book ofMormon, the revealed Word of God.
In the Book ofMormon, dark skin is a sign of disfavor in the eyes of
God. The darker the skin, the deeper the disfavor. It almost makes the
Christian Identity movement look benign.

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

...and being that Mormons "hold" no such thing, the situation will not
arise.

Oh, they can get into Heaven, alright... but only as servants.

"In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing,
if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really
converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy
Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the
celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get
celestial glory."

~Elder Mark E. Peterson, LDS Elder


Well, Elder Mark E. Peterson was incorrect...

He's allowed...and since the man was never a prophet or president of
the church, and the official position of the church is quite
different, don't you think that your insistance that THIS quote would
trump our scripture, our prophets and our beliefs as a whole?

Of course, your basic presentations of LDS beliefs (consisting as they
do of cherry picked quotes out of context and from incorrect sources)
is something no Mormon would recognize as theirs in the first
place...but you go on ahead; I'm only a fifth generation Mormon who
has studied her religion seriously for over forty years; how dare I
actually know what my beliefs are better than you?

Diana

Has any teaching of the scriptures or a prophet ever been overturned,
other than the injuction for men to take more than one wife?
And what is the modern day interpretation of dark skin being a mark of
spiritual ambivalence or waywardness in the life preceding this one?
Just what is the teaching of the LDS church concerning matters of dark skin?
America would like to know in no uncertain terms where the LDS church
stands on its past teachings concerning matters of dark skin, how those
teachings have changed and evolved over time and what the current
teachings of the LDS church are concerning dark skinned people.
And what is the current stance on marriage between blacks and whites,
blacks and Asian, and whites and Asians... marriage between *any*
particular different classifications of human beings?
Has marriage between different groups of human beings ever been
officially discouraged by the LDS at any time in its existence, whether
in writing, from the pulpit or behind closed doors?
Do you deny that the Book of Mormon has numerous passages referring to
dark skin as being a sign of disfavor with God?
.

User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 20 Jun 2007 10:50:00 PM
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:23:25 -0700, DianaC <dianaiad@msn.com> wrote:

On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

"In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing,
if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really
converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy
Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the
celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get
celestial glory."
~Elder Mark E. Peterson, LDS Elder

Well, Elder Mark E. Peterson was incorrect...

I think I hear the sound of bagpipes.
.
User: "•R L Measures"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 21 Jun 2007 05:56:09 AM
In article <h9tj735oqel9t3p1j0fflqd8t5heeis1j8@4ax.com>, Al Klein
<rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:23:25 -0700, DianaC <dianaiad@msn.com> wrote:

On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:


"In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing,
if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really
converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy
Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the
celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get
celestial glory."


~Elder Mark E. Peterson, LDS Elder


Well, Elder Mark E. Peterson was incorrect...


I think I hear the sound of bagpipes.

• I hear the sound of delightsome laughter.
.
User: "¥ UltraMan ¥"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 21 Jun 2007 08:20:41 AM
..R L Measures wrote:

In article <h9tj735oqel9t3p1j0fflqd8t5heeis1j8@4ax.com>, Al Klein
<rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:23:25 -0700, DianaC <dianaiad@msn.com> wrote:

On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:


"In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is
willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith,
and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and
the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his
days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go
there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."


~Elder Mark E. Peterson, LDS Elder


Well, Elder Mark E. Peterson was incorrect...


I think I hear the sound of bagpipes.


. I hear the sound of delightsome laughter.

I hear the council preparing for excommunication ...
.
User: "•R L Measures"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 21 Jun 2007 10:02:52 AM
In article <5dvc9cF35ac75U1@mid.individual.net>, "¥ UltraMan ¥"
<ultra@man.jp> wrote:

.R L Measures wrote:

In article <h9tj735oqel9t3p1j0fflqd8t5heeis1j8@4ax.com>, Al Klein
<rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:23:25 -0700, DianaC <dianaiad@msn.com> wrote:

On Jun 19, 6:17 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:


"In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is
willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith,
and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and
the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his
days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go
there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."


~Elder Mark E. Peterson, LDS Elder


Well, Elder Mark E. Peterson was incorrect...


I think I hear the sound of bagpipes.


. I hear the sound of delightsome laughter.


I hear the council preparing for excommunication ...

** only time will tell, Al. cheerz
.







User: "John"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 03:12:38 PM
On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote:


And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.
Perhaps its because you get all your religious understanding, from
South Park, and HBO.....
Nonetheless, your declaration is a lie.
.
User: "Kris Baker"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 06:41:34 PM
"John" <ewsnet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182283958.942414.32700@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...@man.jp> wrote:


And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.
Perhaps its because you get all your religious understanding, from
South Park, and HBO.....
Nonetheless, your declaration is a lie.
-------------
Huh? I grew up surrounded by people who came out of Mormon
Seminary, with stories about how "blackness" is the mark of Cain,
that Cain killed Abel, that Mormons are on Abel's side, and that
black men are Satan.
.
User: "James McGill"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 07:20:05 PM
Kris Baker wrote:

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.

Perhaps they "can get into heaven" but not into the priesthood (or into
the temple!) Cold comfort to be given entrance into heaven, with the
proviso that you will be only a servant there as well. Okay, so the
church has toned down the racism in recent years, but surely you do not
honestly believe that there is "NO teaching, EVER"...
Joseph Smith first president, prophet, and founder of the Mormon Church:
Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by
strict law to their own species, and put them on a national
equalization" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph
Smith, 270; History of the Church, 5: 218).
"Thursday, 8--Held Mayor's court and tried two negroes for
attempting to marry two white women: fined one $25, and the other $5"
(ibid., 6: 210).
and the rebellious niggers in the slave states. . . "
(Millennial Star, 22:602)
Brigham Young second President and Prophet:
You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth,
uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly
deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is
generally bestowed upon mankind. . . . Cain slew his brother. Cain might
have been killed, and that would put a termination to that line of human
beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which was
the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and
then another cursed is pronounced upon the same race--that they should
be the "servants of servants;" and they will be until that curse is
removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter
that decree (Journal of Discourses, 7:290)
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If
the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the
seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot.
This will always be (ibid., 10:110)
Brigham Young stated that his sermons (as cited above) are Scripture:
I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children
of man, that they may not call Scripture (ibid., 13:95).
Book of Mormon
1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) "she was exceedingly fair and white."
1 Nephi 12:23 (prophecy of the Lamanites) " became a dark, and
loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of
abominations."
1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) "they were white, and exceedingly fair and
beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain."
2 Nephi 5:21 "a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly
fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the
Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
2 Nephi 30:6 (prophecy to the Lamanites if they repented) "scales of
darkness shall begin to fall. . . . they shall be a white and
delightsome people" ("white and delightsome" was changed to "pure and
delightsome" in 1981).
Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) "whom ye hate because of their filthiness
and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . . ."
Jacob 3:8-9 "their skins will be whiter than yours... revile no more
against them because of the darkness of their skins. . . ."
Alma 3:6 "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the
mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them
because of their transgression and their rebellion."
Alma 3:9 "whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did
bring the same curse upon his seed."
Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) "set a mark on them that they and their
seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . . ."
Alma 23:18 "[Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites]
and the curse of God did no more follow them."
3 Nephi 2:14-16 "Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were
numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and
their skin became white like unto the Nephites and . . . became
exceedingly fair. . . . "
3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) "they were as white as the countenance and
also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed
all the whiteness. . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness
thereof… and behold they were white, even as Jesus."
Mormon 5:15 (prophecy about the Lamanites) "for this people shall be
scattered, and shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people,
beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us. . . ."
.
User: "DianaC"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 08:00:57 PM
On Jun 19, 5:20 pm, James McGill <jmcg...@email.arizona.edu> wrote:

Kris Baker wrote:

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.


Perhaps they "can get into heaven" but not into the priesthood (or into
the temple!) Cold comfort to be given entrance into heaven, with the
proviso that you will be only a servant there as well. Okay, so the
church has toned down the racism in recent years, but surely you do not
honestly believe that there is "NO teaching, EVER"...

That would come as a HUGE surprise to my husband and children, who
held (and my sons now hold) the priesthood. You might want to actually
do some research before you make yourself look like an idiot.
<snip a WHOLE lot of out of context qoutes>
.



User: "Yahoo message boards were best"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 06:48:08 PM
John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!



Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.

But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book of Mormon.


Perhaps its because you get all your religious understanding, from
South Park, and HBO.....

Nonetheless, your declaration is a lie.

.
User: "Kris Baker"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 07:02:11 PM
"Yahoo message boards were best" <abc@xyz.com> wrote in message
news:YWZdi.34048$Um6.29896@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!



Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.


But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book of Mormon.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/racism.shtml
Elder MARK E. PETERSON
Race Problems -- As They Affect The Church
Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level,
Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.
God has commanded Israel not to intermarry. To go against this commandment
of God would be in sin. Those who willfully sin with their eyes open to this
wrong will not be surprised to find that they will be separated from the
presence of God in the world to come. This is spiritual death....
The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to
the restriction placed upon them. "No person having the least particle of
Negro blood can hold the Priesthood" (Brigham Young). It does not matter if
they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no
Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood
marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible
for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry
with a Negro is to forfeit a "Nation of Priesthood holders"....
The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn
some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own
people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color
their thinking to some extent, and then, of course, they have been persuaded
by some of the arguments that have been put forth....We who teach in the
Church certainly must have our feet on the ground and not to be led astray
by the philosophies of men on this subject....
I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after.
He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white
people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same
Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the
same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have
read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He
will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his
objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us
away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and
embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we
used to say about sin, "First we pity, then endure, then embrace"....
Now let's talk about segregation again for a few moments. Was segregation a
wrong principle? When the Lord chose the nations to which the spirits were
to come, determining that some would be Japanese and some would be Chinese
and some Negroes and some Americans, He engaged in an act of segregation....
When he told Enoch not preach the gospel to the descendants of Cain who were
black, the Lord engaged in segregation. When He cursed the descendants of
Cain as to the Priesthood, He engaged in segregation....
Who placed the Negroes originally in darkest Africa? Was it some man, or was
it God? And when He placed them there, He segregated them....
The Lord segregated the people both as to blood and place of residence. At
least in the cases of the Lamanites and the Negro we have the definite word
of the Lord Himself that he placed a dark skin upon them as a curse -- as a
punishment and as a sign to all others. He forbade intermarriage with them
under threat of extension of the curse. And He certainly segregated the
descendants of Cain when He cursed the Negro as to the Priesthood, and drew
an absolute line. You may even say He dropped an Iron curtain there....
Now we are generous with the Negro. We are willing that the Negro have the
highest education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if
they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages
they can get out of life in the world. But let them enjoy these things among
themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change
that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, "what God hath
joined together, let not man put asunder." Only here we have the reverse of
the thing -- what God hath separated, let not man bring together again."
Think of the Negro, cursed as to the priesthood.... This Negro, who, in the
pre-existence lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him
to the earth in their lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being
born in darkest Africa--if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to
accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all
he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts
the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him
the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is
faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will
go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EZRA TAFT BENSON
General Conference Report, October 1967, p. 38
The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for
many years and is far advanced. While it can be thwarted in a fairly short
period of time merely by sufficient exposure, the evil effects of what has
already been accomplished cannot be removed overnight. The animosities, the
hatred, the extension of government control into our daily lives -- all this
will take time to repair. The already-inflicted wounds will be slow in
healing. But they can be healed; that is the important point.
First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the
unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators
to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder. Not one in a thousand
Americans -- black or white -- really understands the full implications of
today's civil rights agitation. The planning, direction, and leadership come
from the Communists, and most of those are white men who fully intend to
destroy America by spilling Negro blood, rather than their own.
Next, we must not participate in any so-called "blacklash" activity which
might tend to further intensify inter-racial friction. Anti-Negro vigilante
action, or mob action, of any kind fits perfectly into the Communist plan.
This is one of the best ways to force the decent Negro into cooperating with
militant Negro groups. The Communists are just as anxious to spearhead such
anti-Negro actions as they are to organize demonstrations that are
calculated to irritate white people.
We must insist that duly authorized legislative investigating committees
launch an even more exhaustive study and expose the degree to which secret
Communists have penetrated into the civil rights movement. The same needs to
be done with militant anti-Negro groups. This is an effective way for the
American people of both races to find out who are the false leaders among
them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRUCE R. MCCONKIE
Mormon Doctrine, p. 114
In a broad general sense, caste systems have their root and origin in the
gospel itself, and when they operate according to the divine decree, the
resultant restrictions and segregation are right and proper and have the
approval of the Lord. To illustrate: Cain, Ham, and the whole Negro race
have been cursed with a black skin, the mark of Cain, so they can be
identified as a caste apart, a people with whom the other descendants of
Adam should not intermarry. (Gen. 4; Moses 5.) The whole house of Israel was
chosen as a peculiar people, one set apart from all other nations (Ex.
19:5-6; Deut. 7:6; 14:2); and they were forbidden to marry outside their own
caste. (Ex. 34:10-17; Deut. 7:1-5.) In effect the Lamanites belonged to one
caste and the Nephites to another, and a mark was put upon the Lamanites to
keep the Nephites from intermixing with and marrying them. (Alma 3:6-11.)
All this is not to say that any race, creed, or caste should be denied any
inalienable rights. But it is to say that Deity in his infinite wisdom, to
carry out his inscrutable purposes, has a caste system of his own, a system
of segregation of races and peoples. The justice of such a system is evident
when life is considered in its true eternal perspective. It is only by a
knowledge of pre-existence that it can be known why some persons are born in
one race or caste and some in another. "However, in a broad general sense,
caste systems have their origin in the gospel itself, and when they operate
according to the divine decree, the resultant restrictions and segregation
are right and proper and have the approval of the lord.
pp. 102.
Tough he was rebel and an associate of Lucifer in pre-existence, and though
he was a liar from the beginning whose name was Perdition, Cain was cursed
with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who
are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He
became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of
his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in
eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan.
pg. 343
Through Ham (a name meaning black) the blood of the Canaanites was preserved
through the flood, he having married Egyptus, a descendent of Cain.
Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can
they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message
of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them... Negroes are not equal
with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are
concerned....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 NEPHI 5:21
And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing,
because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts
against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were
white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing
unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto
thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.
And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they
shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it
was done.
And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle
people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for
beasts of prey.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPENCER W. KIMBALL
General Conference Report, October, 1960.
Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-923.
I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today.... The
day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome,
and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In
this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were
as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome The children in
the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and
sisters in the hogans on the reservation.
At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were
present, the little member girl--sixteen--sitting between the dark father
and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her
parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun
and wind and weather....These young members of the Church are changing to
whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and
his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that
the process might be accelerated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOSPEH FIELDING SMITH
Doctrines of Salvation, pp. 65-66.
There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either with
Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive
rewards here based upon their actions there, just as they will receive
rewards hereafter for deeds done in the body. The Negro, evidently, is
receiving the reward he merits.
pg. 61.
There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages,
while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we
once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to
the laws that were given us there. Those who were faithful in all things
there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful
received less.
Juvenile Instructor, vol. 26, p. 635
It is very clear that the mark which was set upon the descendants of Cain
was a skin of blackness...It has been noticed in our day that men who have
lost the spirit of the Lord, and from whom His blessings have been
withdrawn, have turned dark to such an extent as to excite the comments of
all who have known them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BRIGHAM YOUNG
Journal of Discourses
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White
man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain,
the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be
so.
Vol. 7, pg. 290-291
Cain slew his brother. . . and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the
flat nose and black skin.
You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely,
disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly
all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon
mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his
brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain
slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a
termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord
put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind
down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same
race--that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until
that curse is removed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JOHN TAYLOR
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, pg. 304.
And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon
Cain was continued through Hams' wife, as he had married a wife of that
seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that
the devil should have a representative upon the earth as well as God.
Millennial Star, Vol. 14, pg. 418.
For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of
blackness, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should
repent,....Cain and his posterity must wear the mark which God put upon
them; and his white friends may wash the race of Cain with fuller's soap
every day, they cannot wash away God's mark.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year 2001 update
"Racial degeneration, resulting in differences in appearance and spiritual
aptitude, has arisen since the fall. We know the circumstances under which
the posterity of Cain (and later of Ham) were born with the characteristics
of the black race. (Moses 5:16-41; 7:8,12,22; Abra. 1:20-27.) The Book of
Mormon explains why the Lamanites received dark skins and a degenerate
status. (2 Ne. 5:21-23.) If we had a full and true history of all races and
nations, we would know the origins of all their distinctive characteristics.
In the absence of such detailed information, however, we know only the
general principle that all these changes from the physical and spiritual
perfections of our common parents have been brought about by departure from
the gospel truths. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 148-151; vol. 3, pp.
313-326.)" (Mormon Doctrine 1999 printing, p. 616)
.

User: "DianaC"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 19 Jun 2007 09:32:48 PM
On Jun 19, 4:48 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote:


And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!


Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.


But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book of Mormon.

Well, there you go; you need to get a few facts straight before you
mouth off. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT
BASED upon the Book of Mormon, any more than all the other Christians
around are 'based on' the Book of Matthew.
However, would you care to show me, in the Book of Mormon, where black
people cannot get into heaven?
You know, chapter, verse....????
Be very careful where you look. Check the context. Because if you pull
what most people do who try this, you are going to be made to look
really, really silly.
Just trying to be nice to you here, y'know.
Diana
.
User: "Yahoo message boards were best"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 20 Jun 2007 01:00:50 AM
DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:48 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.

But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book of Mormon.


Well, there you go; you need to get a few facts straight before you
mouth off. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT
BASED upon the Book of Mormon,

Are you repudiating the Book of Mormon?
Are you saying that there are teachings in the Book of Mormon to which
the LDS church does not subscribe?
Are you saying that the Book of Mormon is not the word of God as
revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith?
Forget all the other Christians and what they believe or don't believe.
Is the Book of Mormon the revealed word of God or not?
any more than all the other Christians

around are 'based on' the Book of Matthew.

However, would you care to show me, in the Book of Mormon, where black
people cannot get into heaven?

You know, chapter, verse....????
Be very careful where you look. Check the context. Because if you pull
what most people do who try this, you are going to be made to look
really, really silly.

Just trying to be nice to you here, y'know.

Diana

Whether or not the LDS teaches that black people can get into heaven,
.
User: "DianaC"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 22 Jun 2007 06:59:15 PM
On Jun 19, 11:00 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:48 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.

But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book ofMormon.


Well, there you go; you need to get a few facts straight before you
mouth off. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT
BASED upon the Book ofMormon,


Are you repudiating the Book ofMormon?

Not a bit. But I am probably, almost certainly, repudiating your view
of it. Since I'm the Mormon, then it stands to reason that my
interpretation of it is probably closer to standard Mormon doctrine
than yours is.


Are you saying that there are teachings in the Book ofMormonto which
the LDS church does not subscribe?

Ooooh, you're good. Beg a lot of questions, do you? How about
answering the question?


Are you saying that the Book ofMormonis not the word of God as
revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith?

Answer the question.


Forget all the other Christians and what they believe or don't believe.

Is the Book ofMormonthe revealed word of God or not?

any more than all the other Christians

around are 'based on' the Book of Matthew.


However, would you care to show me, in the Book ofMormon, where black
people cannot get into heaven?


You know, chapter, verse....????
Be very careful where you look. Check the context. Because if you pull
what most people do who try this, you are going to be made to look
really, really silly.


Just trying to be nice to you here, y'know.


Diana


Whether or not the LDS teaches that black people can get into heaven,

Ah. you CAN'T show me. Well, that's fairly typical of the anti
stance...
.
User: "Yahoo message boards were best"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 22 Jun 2007 07:29:46 PM
DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 11:00 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:48 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.

But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book ofMormon.

Well, there you go; you need to get a few facts straight before you
mouth off. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT
BASED upon the Book ofMormon,

Are you repudiating the Book ofMormon?


Not a bit. But I am probably, almost certainly, repudiating your view
of it. Since I'm the Mormon, then it stands to reason that my
interpretation of it is probably closer to standard Mormon doctrine
than yours is.

I don't give a sick rats ***** what the standard Mormon excuse is. Racism
based on skin color is the message that anyone with a sixth grade
education or better comes away with.
You can rationalize it away all you want, but there it is in black and
white.

Are you saying that there are teachings in the Book ofMormonto which
the LDS church does not subscribe?


Ooooh, you're good. Beg a lot of questions, do you? How about
answering the question?

Are you saying that the Book ofMormonis not the word of God as
revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith?


Answer the question.

Forget all the other Christians and what they believe or don't believe.

Is the Book ofMormonthe revealed word of God or not?

any more than all the other Christians

around are 'based on' the Book of Matthew.
However, would you care to show me, in the Book ofMormon, where black
people cannot get into heaven?
You know, chapter, verse....????
Be very careful where you look. Check the context. Because if you pull
what most people do who try this, you are going to be made to look
really, really silly.
Just trying to be nice to you here, y'know.
Diana

Whether or not the LDS teaches that black people can get into heaven,


Ah. you CAN'T show me. Well, that's fairly typical of the anti
stance...


.
User: "DianaC"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 23 Jun 2007 09:16:49 PM
On Jun 22, 5:29 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 11:00 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:48 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heav=

en.

But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book ofMormon.

Well, there you go; you need to get a few facts straight before you
mouth off. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT
BASED upon the Book ofMormon,

Are you repudiating the Book ofMormon?


Not a bit. But I am probably, almost certainly, repudiating your view
of it. Since I'm the Mormon, then it stands to reason that my
interpretation of it is probably closer to standard Mormon doctrine
than yours is.


I don't give a sick rats ***** what the standard Mormon excuse is. Racism
based on skin color is the message that anyone with a sixth grade
education or better comes away with.

Then perhaps you need to get a twelfth grade education? The message in
the BOM is that separation from the righteous is the punishment for
evil acts. Skin color is genetics.
this is VERY clearly stated in the following: Jacob 3: 7-10
The people being referred to here are the dark skinned Lamanites, who
are more righteous at the moment than the white skinned Nephites; the
Nephites are being warned ABOUT their racist attitudes.
7 Behold, their husbands love their wives, and their wives love their
husbands; and their husbands and their wives love their children; and
their unbelief and their hatred towards you is because of the iniquity
of their fathers; wherefore, how much better are you than they, in the
sight of your great Creator?
8 O my brethren, I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins
that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought
with them before the throne of God.
9 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, which is the word of
God, that ye revile no more against them because of the darkness of
their skins; neither shall ye revile against them because of their
filthiness; but ye shall remember your own filthiness, and remember
that their filthiness came because of their fathers.
10 Wherefore, ye shall remember your children, how that ye have
grieved their hearts because of the example that ye have set before
them; and also, remember that ye may, because of your filthiness,
bring your children unto destruction, and their sins be heaped upon
your heads at the last day.
In other words, if the racist white Nephites consider that skin color
equals salvation, then they are going to find that the Lamanites are
'whiter' than they are at the judgment seat; but skin color has
nothing to do with salvation or worth; the Lamanites are brown
(filthy, in the terms of the Nephites) because of genetics (because of
their fathers) but they are more righteous; they love each other and
are more moral---more just about everything--than the Nephites who
think that they are so much better *because they are white.*
In other words, sir, the Book of Mormon teaches AGAINST the very
racism you accuse it of promoting; perhaps you should actually READ
it, rather than get your information from pamphlets written by liars?


You can rationalize it away all you want, but there it is in black and
white.

Yes, indeed, there it is---and it's not saying what YOU claim it does,
does it?
<snip to end>
.



User: "Red"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 20 Jun 2007 07:06:43 AM
On Jun 20, 2:00=EF=BF=BDam, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:48 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, "=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's not
likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you wish,
but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the LDS church,
that comes close to implying that black people cannot get into heaven.

But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book of Mormon.


Well, there you go; you need to get a few facts straight before you
mouth off. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT
BASED upon the Book of Mormon,


Are you repudiating the Book of Mormon?

Are you saying that there are teachings in the Book of Mormon to which
the LDS church does not subscribe?

Are you saying that the Book of Mormon is not the word of God as
revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith?

Forget all the other Christians and what they believe or don't believe.

Is the Book of Mormon the revealed word of God or not?

=A0 any more than all the other Christians

around are 'based on' the Book of Matthew.


However, would you care to show me, in the Book of Mormon, where black
people cannot get into heaven?


You know, chapter, verse....????
Be very careful where you look. Check the context. Because if you pull
what most people do who try this, you are going to be made to look
really, really silly.


Just trying to be nice to you here, y'know.


Diana


Whether or not the LDS teaches that black people can get into heaven,

Like I said I believe Mormonism to be a cult.
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 20 Jun 2007 10:55:44 PM
On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 05:06:43 -0700, Red <RedRedCountry@aol.com> wrote:

Like I said I believe Mormonism to be a cult.

If that makes it a cult then all religions are cults.
.

User: "¥ UltraMan ¥"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 20 Jun 2007 06:19:36 PM
Red wrote:

On Jun 20, 2:00?am, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:48 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, " UltraMan " <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's
not likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you
wish, but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the
LDS church, that comes close to implying that black people cannot
get into heaven.

But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book of Mormon.


Well, there you go; you need to get a few facts straight before you
mouth off. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT
BASED upon the Book of Mormon,


Are you repudiating the Book of Mormon?

Are you saying that there are teachings in the Book of Mormon to
which the LDS church does not subscribe?

Are you saying that the Book of Mormon is not the word of God as
revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith?

Forget all the other Christians and what they believe or don't
believe.

Is the Book of Mormon the revealed word of God or not?

any more than all the other Christians

around are 'based on' the Book of Matthew.


However, would you care to show me, in the Book of Mormon, where
black people cannot get into heaven?


You know, chapter, verse....????
Be very careful where you look. Check the context. Because if you
pull what most people do who try this, you are going to be made to
look really, really silly.


Just trying to be nice to you here, y'know.


Diana


Whether or not the LDS teaches that black people can get into heaven,


Like I said I believe Mormonism to be a cult.

As is your superstition.
.
User: "Red"

Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** 20 Jun 2007 06:22:34 PM
On Jun 20, 7:19=EF=BF=BDpm, "=EF=BF=BD UltraMan =EF=BF=BD" <u...@man.jp> wr=
ote:

Red wrote:

On Jun 20, 2:00?am, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

DianaC wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:48 pm, Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com>
wrote:

John wrote:

On Jun 19, 4:24 pm, " UltraMan " <u...@man.jp> wrote:

And being they hold that no Negroes will get into heaven, he's
not likely to grab much of the Black Caucus vote ... LOL!

Its one thing to twist words, and parse them into whatever you
wish, but you will find that there is NO teaching, EVER in the
LDS church, that comes close to implying that black people cannot
get into heaven.

But I thought that the LDS church was based on the Book of Mormon.


Well, there you go; you need to get a few facts straight before you
mouth off. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is NOT
BASED upon the Book of Mormon,


Are you repudiating the Book of Mormon?


Are you saying that there are teachings in the Book of Mormon to
which the LDS church does not subscribe?


Are you saying that the Book of Mormon is not the word of God as
revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith?


Forget all the other Christians and what they believe or don't
believe.


Is the Book of Mormon the revealed word of God or not?


=A0any more than all the other Christians


around are 'based on' the Book of Matthew.


However, would you care to show me, in the Book of Mormon, where
black people cannot get into heaven?


You know, chapter, verse....????
Be very careful where you look. Check the context. Because if you
pull what most people do who try this, you are going to be made to
look really, really silly.


Just trying to be nice to you here, y'know.


Diana


Whether or