Religions > Atheism > ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult **
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"¥ UltraMan ¥" |
| Date: |
19 Jun 2007 03:14:28 PM |
| Object: |
** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
Some Mormons Worry as Faith Comes Under Scrutiny
Mitt Romney's Presidential Rivals Have Used His Mormon Faith for Negative
Campaigning
June 19, 2007 -
In recent weeks, two of Mitt Romney's Republican rivals have apologized
after staffers sent out e-mails questioning basic tenets of Mormonism.
As Romney continues his quest for the presidential nomination, his faith is
likely to come under increasing scrutiny.
It's not the first time a candidate's faith has been a factor for voters. It
happened for Catholics in 1960 when John F. Kennedy ran for president, and
it happened for Orthodox Jews when Joe Lieberman ran for vice president in
2000.
Mormonism's moment in the spotlight brings a mixture of pride and anxiety
for members of the church.
Some Mormons worry about a resurgence of the type of bigotry the church has
faced since it was founded 177 years ago by Joseph Smith, who was later
killed by an angry mob.
Will Mormon Faith Hurt Romney?
Perhaps the biggest misconception about Mormons is that they're polygamists,
as portrayed in the HBO series "Big Love."
In fact, the church gave up polygamy in 1890. It is now only practiced by a
small group of so-called Mormon fundamentalists.
Nonetheless, some Mormons were offended when Romney harshly criticized
polygamy on "60 Minutes."
"I must admit, I can't imagine anything more awful than polygamy," Romney
said on the TV show.
John Dehlin, a Mormon businessman and journalist who runs a Web site called
mormonstories.org, said the remark was offensive.
"There are many Mormons who, while they don't practice polygamy, are very
proud of their ancestry. So to hear him so summarily dismiss or disparage
the practice of polygamy is hurtful," Dehlin said.
Other Mormon beliefs may provoke uncomfortable questions for Romney. For
example, Mormons believe God was once a human being. Mormons also believe in
symbolically baptizing the dead even if they're members of other religions.
Up until 1978, including a time during which Romney was prominent in the
church, black people had second-class status. Mormons used to teach that
blacks had dark skin because of a curse from God.
"These past statements haunt our people and they will haunt Mitt Romney,"
Dehlin said.
Dehlin, who is sometimes critical of the church, points out that Christian
politicians aren't often asked about Old Testament passages that condone
slavery.
"Every religion has skeletons in its historical closet," Dehlin said. "The
only difference is that Mormonism is less familiar."
Some people believe it's unfair for Romney to be forced to essentially
become a spokesman for his faith. Others argue that Romney is running for
the highest office in the land as a man of faith and that scrutiny comes
with the territory.
.
|
|
| User: "jl" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
19 Jun 2007 02:10:59 PM |
|
|
Don't worry. The cat's already out of the bag because of the popular
HBO TV series, _Big Love._
Now everybody in the country knows that Mormons are flaky and
Mormonism is grotesque.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bugman" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
19 Jun 2007 02:25:25 PM |
|
|
"jl" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1182280259.283252.172690@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
Don't worry. The cat's already out of the bag because of the popular
HBO TV series, _Big Love._
Now everybody in the country knows that Mormons are flaky and
Mormonism is grotesque.
There is a Southpark episode that explains them very well.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
19 Jun 2007 03:29:49 PM |
|
|
"¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
news:5dqh8bFta5dsU1@mid.individual.net...
(snip)
Dehlin, who is sometimes critical of the church, points out that Christian
politicians aren't often asked about Old Testament passages that condone
slavery.
"Every religion has skeletons in its historical closet," Dehlin said. "The
only difference is that Mormonism is less familiar."
But how about we aire ALL the skeletons in all the closets, not just forgive
a few because everyone has some.
Some people believe it's unfair for Romney to be forced to essentially
become a spokesman for his faith. Others argue that Romney is running for
the highest office in the land as a man of faith and that scrutiny comes
with the territory.
No kidding. You believe something, you better be ready to justify it.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http//www.io.com/~dloubet
.
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
19 Jun 2007 09:27:41 PM |
|
|
On Jun 19, 1:29 pm, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote in messagenews:5dqh8bFta5dsU1@mid.=
individual.net...
(snip)
Dehlin, who is sometimes critical of the church, points out that Christ=
ian
politicians aren't often asked about Old Testament passages that condone
slavery.
"Every religion has skeletons in its historical closet," Dehlin said. "=
The
only difference is that Mormonism is less familiar."
But how about we aire ALL the skeletons in all the closets, not just forg=
ive
a few because everyone has some.
Some people believe it's unfair for Romney to be forced to essentially
become a spokesman for his faith. Others argue that Romney is running f=
or
the highest office in the land as a man of faith and that scrutiny comes
with the territory.
No kidding. You believe something, you better be ready to justify it.
Why? Did Kennedy have to "justify" the beliefs HE held? Has any other
President? It's religious faith. It is sufficient that he, if he must,
be able to clearly state what those beliefs are--but you are insisting
that he proselyte. That's unprecedented, and against the intent, if
not the actual law, of the constitution.
He doesn't have to JUSTIFY a darned thing. YOU might have to justify
insisting that he believes things he does not, and to justify this
really silly attack upon those beliefs, especially the sort of
strawman attacks that are typically used.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Denis Loubet" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
20 Jun 2007 12:00:33 AM |
|
|
"DianaC" <dianaiad@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1182306461.228033.234210@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 19, 1:29 pm, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"¥ UltraMan ¥" <u...@man.jp> wrote in
messagenews:5dqh8bFta5dsU1@mid.individual.net...
(snip)
Dehlin, who is sometimes critical of the church, points out that
Christian
politicians aren't often asked about Old Testament passages that condone
slavery.
"Every religion has skeletons in its historical closet," Dehlin said.
"The
only difference is that Mormonism is less familiar."
But how about we aire ALL the skeletons in all the closets, not just
forgive
a few because everyone has some.
Some people believe it's unfair for Romney to be forced to essentially
become a spokesman for his faith. Others argue that Romney is running
for
the highest office in the land as a man of faith and that scrutiny comes
with the territory.
No kidding. You believe something, you better be ready to justify it.
"Why? Did Kennedy have to "justify" the beliefs HE held?"
If anyone had asked him, sure.
"Has any other
President?"
I would hope so. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson wrote quite a bit about
what they believed and how they justified it.
But of course, they were intelligent men.
"It's religious faith. It is sufficient that he, if he must,
be able to clearly state what those beliefs are--but you are insisting
that he proselyte. That's unprecedented, and against the intent, if
not the actual law, of the constitution."
Not at all. Asking someone why they believe something silly and expecting an
answer is not against the constitution.
"He doesn't have to JUSTIFY a darned thing."
Then I don't have to take him seriously.
"YOU might have to justify
insisting that he believes things he does not, and to justify this
really silly attack upon those beliefs, especially the sort of
strawman attacks that are typically used."
Are you on drugs?
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
20 Jun 2007 01:07:22 AM |
|
|
"Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"DianaC" <diana...@msn.com> wrote
"Why? Did Kennedy have to "justify" the beliefs HE held?"
If anyone had asked him, sure.
Kennedy's religion was an issue. Period. If it hadn't had
been, Nixon wouldn't have gotten a single Electoral Vote.
.
|
|
|
| User: "jls" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
20 Jun 2007 09:33:40 AM |
|
|
On Jun 20, 2:07 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"DianaC" <diana...@msn.com> wrote
"Why? Did Kennedy have to "justify" the beliefs HE held?"
If anyone had asked him, sure.
Kennedy's religion was an issue. Period. If it hadn't had
been, Nixon wouldn't have gotten a single Electoral Vote.
Kennedy distanced himself from Catholicism. He said he would not take
instructions from Rome. His speeches on the subject were convincing.
I remember them.
It would be difficult to compare Catholicism with Mormonism as these
denominations affect a presidential candidate. Catholics are
mainstream; Mormons are not.
Catholicism is ancient; Mormonism is a relatively young religion.
Catholicism accepts black people as equals with whites; Mormonism does
not.
Just my opinion: very few blacks will vote for a Mormon.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
20 Jun 2007 11:06:08 PM |
|
|
jls <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Kennedy distanced himself from Catholicism.
He said he would not take instructions from
Rome.
That wasn't "Distancing himself," as no Catholic
I ever met took instructions from Rome. What he
was doing was addressing the fantasies of the
anti-Catholic crowd who claimed he would be taking
instructions from Rome.
In other words, yeah, his religion was a major
issue....
Secondly, Romney himself has employed his
religion at every opportunity. The Mormons had
been "Good little Germans" in the Religious
Reich, voting for all the fundy candidates and
innitiatives. Romney has made it clear that if
the Religious Reich plans on continuing with the
support of the Mormons, they had better be ready
to fully endorse & support a Mormon candidate.
Romney has also played the Mormon card in
fundraising & organizational support.
Why do you think he's doing so well in New
Hampshire right now? He's got a huge chunk of
the Massachusetts Mormon population (which is
much larger than most other states, outside of
Utah) driving to New Hampshire.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "¥ UltraMan ¥" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
20 Jun 2007 06:21:34 PM |
|
|
jls wrote:
On Jun 20, 2:07 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"DianaC" <diana...@msn.com> wrote
"Why? Did Kennedy have to "justify" the beliefs HE held?"
If anyone had asked him, sure.
Kennedy's religion was an issue. Period. If it hadn't had
been, Nixon wouldn't have gotten a single Electoral Vote.
Kennedy distanced himself from Catholicism. He said he would not take
instructions from Rome. His speeches on the subject were convincing.
I remember them.
It would be difficult to compare Catholicism with Mormonism as these
denominations affect a presidential candidate. Catholics are
mainstream; Mormons are not.
Catholicism is ancient; Mormonism is a relatively young religion.
Catholicism accepts black people as equals with whites; Mormonism does
not.
What skin color was Jesus ?
Just my opinion: very few blacks will vote for a Mormon.
Very few?
Name ONE .
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
22 Jun 2007 07:16:41 PM |
|
|
On Jun 19, 10:00 pm, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"DianaC" <diana...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1182306461.228033.234210@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 19, 1:29 pm, "Denis Loubet" <dlou...@io.com> wrote:
"=A5 UltraMan =A5" <u...@man.jp> wrote in
messagenews:5dqh8bFta5dsU1@mid.individual.net...
(snip)
Dehlin, who is sometimes critical of the church, points out that
Christian
politicians aren't often asked about Old Testament passages that cond=
one
slavery.
"Every religion has skeletons in its historical closet," Dehlin said.
"The
only difference is that Mormonism is less familiar."
But how about we aire ALL the skeletons in all the closets, not just
forgive
a few because everyone has some.
Some people believe it's unfair for Romney to be forced to essentially
become a spokesman for his faith. Others argue that Romney is running
for
the highest office in the land as a man of faith and that scrutiny co=
mes
with the territory.
No kidding. You believe something, you better be ready to justify it.
"Why? Did Kennedy have to "justify" the beliefs HE held?"
If anyone had asked him, sure.
"Has any other
President?"
I would hope so. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson wrote quite a bit about
what they believed and how they justified it.
But of course, they were intelligent men.
"It's religious faith. It is sufficient that he, if he must,
be able to clearly state what those beliefs are--but you are insisting
that he proselyte. That's unprecedented, and against the intent, if
not the actual law, of the constitution."
Not at all. Asking someone why they believe something silly and expecting=
an
answer is not against the constitution.
"He doesn't have to JUSTIFY a darned thing."
Then I don't have to take him seriously.
No, you don't. Hopefully, however, others will....and your attitude
won't come back to bite you in the butt when someone you LIKE runs for
office.
"YOU might have to justify
insisting that he believes things he does not, and to justify this
really silly attack upon those beliefs, especially the sort of
strawman attacks that are typically used."
Are you on drugs?
Do you usually use ad hominem to run from questions? Why shouldn't
you have to justify your questions before they are answered? These
people are running for political office, not Pastor in chief...and if
you don't have a problem with Harry Reid, then you don't have the
right to have a problem with Mitt Romney. At least, not in regard to
religion.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
24 Jun 2007 01:09:26 AM |
|
|
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
...and if you don't have a problem with Harry
Reid, then you don't have the right to have a
problem with Mitt Romney. At least, not in
regard to religion.
Because it's not like the Republicans have made
an issue out of religion these past twenty 27
years!!!!
Well, okay, so it is like it. Meaning, they have
made an issue out of religion.... constantly.
And it's an issue for Romney, too. He draws
heavily from Mormons for support... simply due
to the fact that he is a Mormon.
So as long as Republicans are willing to travel
backwards in time and undo the way they've run
on religion since 1980.... and Romney is going
to give back all the $Millions$ he's collected from
Mormons, and fire all the Mormon workers &
volunteers, it's unfair to raise Romney's religion
as an issue.
THE REPUBLICANS DIDN'T MAKE AN ISSUE
OUT OF THE ONLY CATHOLIC PRESIDENT'S
RELIGION!
Wait. They did. Darn. No wonder Republicans are
known as hypocrites... including religious hypocrites.
.
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
24 Jun 2007 10:34:00 AM |
|
|
On Jun 23, 11:09 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
...and if you don't have a problem with Harry
Reid, then you don't have the right to have a
problem with Mitt Romney. At least, not in
regard to religion.
Because it's not like the Republicans have made
an issue out of religion these past twenty 27
years!!!!
Well, okay, so it is like it. Meaning, they have
made an issue out of religion.... constantly.
And it's an issue for Romney, too. He draws
heavily from Mormons for support... simply due
to the fact that he is a Mormon.
So as long as Republicans are willing to travel
backwards in time and undo the way they've run
on religion since 1980.... and Romney is going
to give back all the $Millions$ he's collected from
Mormons, and fire all the Mormon workers &
volunteers, it's unfair to raise Romney's religion
as an issue.
THE REPUBLICANS DIDN'T MAKE AN ISSUE
OUT OF THE ONLY CATHOLIC PRESIDENT'S
RELIGION!
Wait. They did. Darn. No wonder Republicans are
known as hypocrites... including religious hypocrites.
Actually, they were no more likely to do so than the Democrats were.
However, I'm not talking about the Republican view. I'm talking about
the Democrat view; if you are so proud of your own reaction to
Kennedy, et.al, why are you attempting to excuse your attack on Romney
because of his Mormonism NOW?
Are there Republicans who attack Romney's religion? Sure. They are
idiots. I am a Republican because there are, quite frankly, only two
parties that have any chance at all of getting someone in the
presidency, and the Democrat leadership, in the main, is hypocritical,
condescending, racist and, quite frankly, impossible. Not to mention
the fact that their entire political strategy seems to be 'anything
but what the Republicans want.." and that isn't going to get us
anywhere.
So you go ahead and attack the Republicans if you wish...but when YOU
attack Romney because of his religion, you are being worse than the
fundamentalist Christian extremists who would rather vote for Satan
than for a Mormon. They, at least, are sincere. YOU, according to your
own stated standards, are not only being a hypocrite, you don't care
who knows it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
24 Jun 2007 03:23:50 PM |
|
|
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Actually, they were no more likely to do so
than the Democrats were.
Use religion as an issue? Are you on crack?
Look, I understand that you don't want certain things
to be true. Unfortunately though, they are true.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. Yes,
Romney is as least partly responsible for that, and
the history of the GOP has a great deal to do with it,
too.
Deal with it then move on.
Your every posts, your every denial of reality brings
you closer to painting yourself as a total psycho.
.
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
24 Jun 2007 05:30:57 PM |
|
|
On Jun 24, 1:23 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Actually, they were no more likely to do so
than the Democrats were.
Use religion as an issue? Are you on crack?
Look, I understand that you don't want certain things
to be true. Unfortunately though, they are true.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. Yes,
Romney is as least partly responsible for that, and
the history of the GOP has a great deal to do with it,
too.
Deal with it then move on.
Your every posts, your every denial of reality brings
you closer to painting yourself as a total psycho.
Amazing how the only people who think I'm psycho are those who have
problems addressing the issues I raise.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. But if the Democrats
(YOU) were not incredible hypocrites willing to use anything at all to
defeat a Republican, they would be doing everything they could to make
it NOT an issue. But no, y'all are so willing to use any tool at hand,
honorable or not, and you are not even far sighted enough to know that
you are shooting yourself in Harry Reid's foot.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
26 Jun 2007 02:03:54 AM |
|
|
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Amazing how the only people who think I'm
psycho are those who have problems
addressing the issues I raise.
The only issue you've raised is your gripe with
reality.
Romney is a Mormon.
Yes he is. And if he wasn't he wouldn't be a
candidate right now.
It is going to be an issue.
It already is an issue, and has been. Romney
is at least partly responsible for that.
But if the Democrats
Here in reality, it is the REPUBLICANS who have
insisted religion is an issue for (at least) 27 years
now.
You don't want that to be true. You would rather
that Romney walked into a political environment
with a clean religious slate. But that simply isn't
the case.
Blame Democrats all you want. All it does it
further paint you as a total psycho.
.
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
26 Jun 2007 10:21:16 AM |
|
|
On Jun 26, 12:03 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Amazing how the only people who think I'm
psycho are those who have problems
addressing the issues I raise.
The only issue you've raised is your gripe with
reality.
Romney is a Mormon.
Yes he is. And if he wasn't he wouldn't be a
candidate right now.
If he wasn't, he'd be FIRST of the three top Republicans running,
instead of one of the three top Republicans running.
It is going to be an issue.
It already is an issue, and has been. Romney
is at least partly responsible for that.
But if the Democrats
Here in reality, it is the REPUBLICANS who have
insisted religion is an issue for (at least) 27 years
now.
You don't want that to be true. You would rather
that Romney walked into a political environment
with a clean religious slate. But that simply isn't
the case.
Blame Democrats all you want. All it does it
further paint you as a total psycho.
YOU call me a 'total psycho?" Why, thank you. Given your credibility,
I consider that a compliment. I wouldn't want to be someone you
actually approved of.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
26 Jun 2007 05:11:07 PM |
|
|
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
If he wasn't, he'd be FIRST of the three top Republicans
running, instead of one of the three top Republicans
running.
Who in their right mind would support a compulsive liar
for President? Who in their right mind would support
a cowardly chicken hawk who not only didn't serve during
Vietnam, but ran off to France?
NOBODY. Unless, you're a Mormon hoping to see the
very first Mormon elected President. Then you support
Mitt Romney -- despite is over abundance of flaws --
for no reason other than the fact that he's Mormon.
Romney is drawing on that Mormon support. Without it,
he wouldn't be a contender.
If Romney wasn't a Mormon, he'd be nothing but a
fast talking, extremely flawed candidate for offie.
.
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
26 Jun 2007 07:37:31 PM |
|
|
On Jun 26, 3:11 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
If he wasn't, he'd be FIRST of the three top Republicans
running, instead of one of the three top Republicans
running.
Who in their right mind would support a compulsive liar
for President? Who in their right mind would support
a cowardly chicken hawk who not only didn't serve during
Vietnam, but ran off to France?
Getting called to a two and a half year mission is not 'running off.'
Getting a three year student deferment is not 'running off.' After the
deferment, he registered for the draft along with everyone else; he
wasn't attempting to get away with anything at at all. We encourage
ALL our young men to go on just such missions.
He didn't attempt to pull any of the things some of your heros
did...for instance, like Gore, who handed out pictures of himself
looking like an infantryman in VietNam, when in reality he spent seven
months as a reporter waaaaay behind the lines (and who got special
protection because of whose son he was)---or Kerry, who accepted
purple hearts for wounds that didn't cause him any time off duty so
that he could leave combat early--and get assigned to some cushy job
as an Admiral's aide and get out of the service early himself, or
Clinton, whose amazingly agile draft dodging was legendary, or..????
No, you can't criticize the man for not serving in the military. He
would have. He didn't attempt to evade the draft; when he was
eligible, he drew a number like everybody else. It was simply his good
fortune that this number was 300, not 176.
NOBODY. Unless, you're a Mormon hoping to see the
very first Mormon elected President. Then you support
Mitt Romney -- despite is over abundance of flaws --
for no reason other than the fact that he's Mormon.
Actually, push come to shove, I am leaning more toward Giuliani or
Thompson.
Romney is drawing on that Mormon support. Without it,
he wouldn't be a contender.
REALLY? Just how many Mormons do you think are IN the USA? I know
that we have about 12 or 13 million members world wide, but more than
half of them are not in the USA. So we have what...six million people
supporting the man?
You truly are an idiot.
<snip to end>
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
27 Jun 2007 12:59:57 AM |
|
|
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Getting called to a two and a half year mission
Oh, please. There is no shortage of Mormons without
the wealth & influence of Romney that would have
loved to hide from Vietnam AND tour France.
You're such a dishonest skank that you're pretending
it was some sort of sacrafice... Sheesh!
.
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
27 Jun 2007 12:55:30 PM |
|
|
On Jun 26, 10:59 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Getting called to a two and a half year mission
Oh, please. There is no shortage of Mormons without
the wealth & influence of Romney that would have
loved to hide from Vietnam AND tour France.
You're such a dishonest skank that you're pretending
it was some sort of sacrafice... Sheesh!
JTEM, you really need to learn a couple of things. First, EVERY young
Mormon male is encouraged to serve a mission. All of them.
Considerably more than half do, and so do a great many Mormon women,
as well. I did. It's a part of being who we are. We did it before the
draft, we did it during the draft, we do it now. It isn't a way to get
out of military service: it is done AS WELL AS military service. AS
WELL as school. AS WELL as all the other things young men and women of
that age group do.
We don't consider missionary service to be a sacrifice, but an
opportunity for service--and if you think that Romney actually got to
'tour France' during that two and a half years, you are an even bigger
idiot than you look.
And you, quite frankly, look like a pretty big idiot.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
27 Jun 2007 07:54:49 PM |
|
|
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Oh, please. There is no shortage of Mormons without
the wealth & influence of Romney that would have
loved to hide from Vietnam AND tour France.
You're such a dishonest skank that you're pretending
it was some sort of sacrafice... Sheesh!
JTEM, you really need to learn a couple of things. First,
EVERY young Mormon male is encouraged to serve a
mission.
*Duh*!
And if you're the elitist son of a rich & highly placed Mormon,
you get to hide from Vietnam AND tour France!
You're intentionally ignoring what I was saying....
.
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
27 Jun 2007 11:47:46 PM |
|
|
On Jun 27, 5:54 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Oh, please. There is no shortage of Mormons without
the wealth & influence of Romney that would have
loved to hide from Vietnam AND tour France.
You're such a dishonest skank that you're pretending
it was some sort of sacrafice... Sheesh!
JTEM, you really need to learn a couple of things. First,
EVERY young Mormon male is encouraged to serve a
mission.
*Duh*!
And if you're the elitist son of a rich & highly placed Mormon,
you get to hide from Vietnam AND tour France!
You're intentionally ignoring what I was saying....
I addressed what you were saying. The fact that I'm not playing by
your script does NOT mean that what I said is irrelevant.
You, however, are.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
28 Jun 2007 12:08:48 AM |
|
|
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
And if you're the elitist son of a rich & highly placed Mormon,
you get to hide from Vietnam AND tour France!
You're intentionally ignoring what I was saying....
I addressed what you were saying.
No you didn't. You concentrated ENTIRELY on the so-called
"missionary" work, and ignored the fact that it was taking
place in a highly sought after destination.
You're a dishonest SKANK. It's YOU trying to make an
issue out of Romney calling himself a Mormon.
Let's face it, Romney worships no god. If he did, do you
think he'd be such an immoral *****?
.
|
|
|
| User: "David Bowie" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
28 Jun 2007 07:52:59 AM |
|
|
JTEM wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
JTEM wrote:
And if you're the elitist son of a rich & highly placed Mormon,
you get to hide from Vietnam AND tour France!
You're intentionally ignoring what I was saying....
I addressed what you were saying.
No you didn't. You concentrated ENTIRELY on the so-called
"missionary" work, and ignored the fact that it was taking
place in a highly sought after destination.
In actual fact, as a Mormon who served as a full-time missionary in
continental Europe, i can say that continental Europe is *not* "a highly
sought after destination" (or anything similar) for most of those from
the US who apply to become Mormon missionaries. There are exceptions, of
course, usually if someone's parents are from the continent, or if
someone's parent served as a full-time missionary on the continent (and
i haven't bothered to check if Romney fits either of those). For the
most part, though, continental Europe (especially France, Germany, and
Benelux, as well as the Scandinavian countries) is considered a "hard"
missionary field, and therefore is dispreferred.
<snip>
David, setting followups yet once more
--
David Bowie University of Central Florida
Jeanne's Two Laws of Chocolate: If there is no chocolate in the
house, there is too little; some must be purchased. If there is
chocolate in the house, there is too much; it must be consumed.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Whosoever" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
28 Jun 2007 08:30:56 AM |
|
|
"David Bowie" <db.news@pmpkn.net> wrote in message news:4683af13$0$8150$bb8e7a08@news.usenetcompany.com...
And if you're the elitist son of a rich & highly placed Mormon,
you get to hide from Vietnam AND tour France!
You're intentionally ignoring what I was saying....
In actual fact, as a Mormon who served as a full-time missionary in continental Europe, i can say that continental Europe is *not*
"a highly sought after destination" (or anything similar) for most of those from the US who apply to become Mormon missionaries.
There are exceptions, of course, usually if someone's parents are from the continent, or if someone's parent served as a full-time
missionary on the continent (and i haven't bothered to check if Romney fits either of those). For the most part, though,
continental Europe (especially France, Germany, and Benelux, as well as the Scandinavian countries) is considered a "hard"
missionary field, and therefore is dispreferred.
.. The Sheep and the Goats The Judgment
The Piglet, the Sheep, and the Goat A YOUNG PIG was shut up in a
fold-yard with a Goat and a Sheep. On one occasion when the shepherd laid
hold of him, he grunted and squeaked and resisted violently. The Sheep
and the Goat complained of his distressing cries, saying, "He often
handles us, and we do not cry out." To this the Pig replied, "Your
handling and mine are very different things. He catches you only for your
wool, or your milk, but he lays hold on me for my very life."
Aesop. -- Aesop's Fables.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
(Matthew 25:31-46 NLT) The Final Judgment
31 "But when the Son of Man?*?
comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon
his glorious throne. 32 All the nations?*? will be gathered in his
presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the
sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep at his right hand and
the goats at his left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on his right,
'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for
you from the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you fed me.
I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited
me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick,
and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.' 37 "Then
these righteous ones will reply, 'Lord, when did we ever see you hungry
and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a
stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39
When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?' 40 "And the
King will say, 'I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least
of these my brothers and sisters,?*? you were doing it to me!' 41 "Then
the King will turn to those on the left and say, 'Away with you, you
cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
demons.?*? 42 For I was hungry, and you didn't feed me. I was thirsty,
and you didn't give me a drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn't
invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn't give me clothing. I
was sick and in prison, and you didn't visit me.' 44 "Then they will
reply, 'Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or
naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?' 45 "And he will answer, 'I
tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my
brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.' 46 "And they will go
away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal
life."
Tyndale House Publishers. (2004). Holy Bible : New Living Translation.
"Text edition"--Spine. (2nd ed.) (Mt 25:31). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House
Publishers.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus spoke of this event, as well. When the
Tribulation is over, the Lord will gather the survivors of all the
nations of the world and separate them into two groups: the sheep and the
goats. The nations classified as sheep will be ushered into the
millennial period-a thousand years of peace and prosperity. The goats
will be sent out into outer darkness. Who are the sheep and goats? The
defining issue is how people treat Israel during the Tribulation because
when antichrist comes, he'll persuade the nations to hate the Jews. The
nations who buy into his hatred will be doomed. But the nations who
befriend Israel will be brought into the Millennium.
Courson, J. (2006). Jon Courson's application commentary : Volume two :
Psalms-Malachi (462). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus refers to the judgment of nations that will take place at the end
of the Tribulation. According to Zechariah 14:4, when Jesus comes back to
earth, the Mount of Olives will split in half the moment His feet touch
down upon it. I found it interesting that contractors were denied a
permit to build a hotel on the Mount of Olives because seismological
studies indicated a major fault running through it. When Jesus comes,
that fault will split the mountain in half, a great valley will open
up, and a new stream will begin to flow from the Dead Sea to the
Mediterranean. Joel refers to this valley as the valley of decision
(Joel 3:14) because those who survive the Tribulation will be brought
there to stand before the Lord at the judgment of the nations. The
sheep will be allowed to enter into the millennium. The goats will be
sent away to destruction. Who are the sheep? "The ones who clothed Me;
fed Me; and cared about Me," answers Jesus. "When did we do that,
Lord?" the sheep ask. "When you did it to the least of My brethren-the
Jews," Jesus answers. You see, midway through the Tribulation,
Antichrist's determination to destroy the Jews will come to light. All
over the world, anti-Semitism will run rampant. At that time, however,
many will refuse to take the mark of the beast and will help the Jews,
even as some did in Nazi Germany. They will visit those in prison. They
will hide those in need of protection. They will reach out to those who
are hurting. They will go on record, saying, "We will not take the mark
of the beast. We will stand with these persecuted people." Jesus said
in so doing, they will demonstrate outwardly their faith in Him.
Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (189).
Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Years ago, I sat on a hill outside Galilee and watched a single shepherd
boy lead a flock of sheep. It was a beautiful sight. Goats, on the other
hand, are impossible to lead. They would rather butt heads and eat trash
than follow anyone. Goats do what they want.
The point is the sorting out of righteous and wicked individuals that
will happen then. The angels will assist Jesus in this process. The
wicked will go to eternal destruction (cf. v. 42), but the righteous will
continue on in Messiah's kingdom that will then move from the present
earth to the new earth.
"The fear motive is often condemnbed by modern Christians, but the Book
of Matthew shows Jesus was not opposed to using it properly."571
Tom Constable. (2003; 2003). Tom Constable's Expository Notes on the
Bible (Mt 13:49). Galaxie Software.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
24 Jun 2007 06:34:49 PM |
|
|
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. But if
the Democrats (YOU) were not incredible hypocrites
willing to use anything at all to defeat a Republican,
What planet are you on, psycho?
THE REPUBLICANS have made religion an issue AT LEAST
since Jimmy Carter.
As a matter of fact, if you pulled your head out of your
*****, you could even find DOZENS of articles & commentaries
written over the years, discussing ways that Democrats might
go about establishing that the GOP doesn't own a lock on
Religion!
Romney himself has often used the Mormon card, including
in fundraising. He can't use it and then whine like a little
girl when every other english speaking person in the world
notices.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Free Lunch" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
24 Jun 2007 05:45:54 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:30:57 -0700, in alt.atheism
DianaC <dianaiad@msn.com> wrote in
<1182724257.657270.269020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Jun 24, 1:23 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Actually, they were no more likely to do so
than the Democrats were.
Use religion as an issue? Are you on crack?
Look, I understand that you don't want certain things
to be true. Unfortunately though, they are true.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. Yes,
Romney is as least partly responsible for that, and
the history of the GOP has a great deal to do with it,
too.
Deal with it then move on.
Your every posts, your every denial of reality brings
you closer to painting yourself as a total psycho.
Amazing how the only people who think I'm psycho are those who have
problems addressing the issues I raise.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. But if the Democrats
(YOU) were not incredible hypocrites willing to use anything at all to
defeat a Republican, they would be doing everything they could to make
it NOT an issue. But no, y'all are so willing to use any tool at hand,
honorable or not, and you are not even far sighted enough to know that
you are shooting yourself in Harry Reid's foot.
The issue will be with the Republican voters, particularly the
evangelicals and fundamentalists who aren't necessarily willing to admit
that the Catholics are Christian. These people are not Democrats.
Mormons are much more likely to vote for Democrats and run as Democrats
than the evangelicals and fundamentalists who make up the religious
right.
I don't see the Democrats complaining about Romney being a Mormon, they
don't care.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Yahoo message boards were best" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
24 Jun 2007 06:29:25 PM |
|
|
Free Lunch wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:30:57 -0700, in alt.atheism
DianaC <dianaiad@msn.com> wrote in
<1182724257.657270.269020@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Jun 24, 1:23 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Actually, they were no more likely to do so
than the Democrats were.
Use religion as an issue? Are you on crack?
Look, I understand that you don't want certain things
to be true. Unfortunately though, they are true.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. Yes,
Romney is as least partly responsible for that, and
the history of the GOP has a great deal to do with it,
too.
Deal with it then move on.
Your every posts, your every denial of reality brings
you closer to painting yourself as a total psycho.
Amazing how the only people who think I'm psycho are those who have
problems addressing the issues I raise.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. But if the Democrats
(YOU) were not incredible hypocrites willing to use anything at all to
defeat a Republican, they would be doing everything they could to make
it NOT an issue. But no, y'all are so willing to use any tool at hand,
honorable or not, and you are not even far sighted enough to know that
you are shooting yourself in Harry Reid's foot.
The issue will be with the Republican voters, particularly the
evangelicals and fundamentalists who aren't necessarily willing to admit
that the Catholics are Christian. These people are not Democrats.
Mormons are much more likely to vote for Democrats and run as Democrats
than the evangelicals and fundamentalists who make up the religious
right.
I don't see the Democrats complaining about Romney being a Mormon, they
don't care.
After all, he *did* get elected governor of the most Democratic state in
the union.
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
26 Jun 2007 02:06:40 AM |
|
|
Yahoo message boards were best <a...@xyz.com> wrote:
After all, he *did* get elected governor of the most
Democratic state in the union.
Feh. The Governor's office had been Republican since
1990, and it was Romney who completely wore out their
welcome.
Romney "won" with 49% of the vote in an election that
had numerous third-party candidates. He also heavily
out-spent his oppenent. Romney could not have won
re-election, so he didn't even try.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "DianaC" |
|
| Title: Re: ** Mormons afraid Mitt Romney will expose their Crazy Cult ** |
25 Jun 2007 05:54:04 PM |
|
|
On Jun 24, 3:45 pm, Free Lunch <l...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:30:57 -0700, in alt.atheism
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote in
<1182724257.657270.269...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
On Jun 24, 1:23 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
DianaC <diana...@msn.com> wrote:
Actually, they were no more likely to do so
than the Democrats were.
Use religion as an issue? Are you on crack?
Look, I understand that you don't want certain things
to be true. Unfortunately though, they are true.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. Yes,
Romney is as least partly responsible for that, and
the history of the GOP has a great deal to do with it,
too.
Deal with it then move on.
Your every posts, your every denial of reality brings
you closer to painting yourself as a total psycho.
Amazing how the only people who think I'm psycho are those who have
problems addressing the issues I raise.
Romney is a Mormon. It is going to be an issue. But if the Democrats
(YOU) were not incredible hypocrites willing to use anything at all to
defeat a Republican, they would be doing everything they could to make
it NOT an issue. But no, y'all are so willing to use any tool at hand,
honorable or not, and you are not even far sighted enough to know that
you are shooting yourself in Harry Reid's foot.
The issue will be with the Republican voters, particularly the
evangelicals and fundamentalists who aren't necessarily willing to admit
that the Catholics are Christian. These people are not Democrats.
Mormons are much more likely to vote for Democrats and run as Democrats
than the evangelicals and fundamentalists who make up the religious
right.
I don't see the Democrats complaining about Romney being a Mormon, they
don't care.- Hide quoted text -
You DON'T????
Then you need to pay far closer attention to these boards; yes, there
are plenty of fundamentalist evangalistic idiots who are against
Romney because he is a mormon, but there are far MORE Democrats who
bring the topic up. One can tell which is which, actually; the
fundamentalists are afraid of his religion. The Democrats make fun of
it.
But we, as a nation, SHOULD have come further than the beginning of
the twentieth century, when congress had very lengthy hearings about
whether they would allow a legally elected Mormon senator to actually
take his seat in the Senate.
- Show quoted text -
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
