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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "= Vox PopuliŠ"
Date: 27 Nov 2006 10:03:17 PM
Object: => US News & World Report: Stupid Letters to Editor about Atheism
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett.htm
The authors of the three atheist books, Richard Dawkins [The God Delusion], Sam
Harris [Letter to a Christian Nation], and Daniel Dennett [Breaking the Spell:
Religion as a Natural Phenomenon], apparently reject God on the grounds that
religions perpetrate actions that are harmful, and religious doctrine is
incompatible with science. General relativity, quantum mechanics, and string/M
theory are harder to explain without God than with God. All of nature, from
quarks to human consciousness, is so exquisite and awesome that it is foolish to
contend that it all came out of nowhere and evolved by chance. It did evolve,
but by the laws of chemistry and physics. The God of Scripture is also the God
of natural laws. Even if we live in a probabilistic universe, those
probabilities operate within the constraints of intelligently designed natural
laws. What we need is not to abandon religion but to modernize our understanding
of God.
BILL KLEMM
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett_2.htm
No one can deny that religions and religious adherents have their faults. Even
so, one only has to look back on the 20th century to realize that whenever and
wherever atheism prevailed, the death and destruction that followed was on an
unprecedented scale. Stalin's atheistic Soviet Union and Hitler's atheistic
Third Reich were responsible for millions of deaths. If history is a guide to
atheistic dominance, I'd just as soon stick with the flawed faithful.
PEGGY MULLER
Sam Harris casts a bad light on all religious people, saying that they don't
think about suffering. I disagree. Although not a model person, I am
characterized by some as "religious," and I care very much about suffering.
Mother Teresa was "religious" and dedicated her life to serving and trying to
relieve suffering.
TARA WOLF
Being an atheist is a logically untenable position. If a person is absolutely
certain there is no God, he/she would then know everything and would qualify for
the title. I am a bit more comfortable with some assumed humility in
agnosticism.
TOM BAKER
It is important to differentiate between "religion" and "faith," especially in a
discussion about whether religion harms people more than helps. "Religion" is
outward expression of belief in God, and "faith" is one's personal belief in
God. There are plenty of people who are "religious," that is, they practice
religion but do not have true faith. Religion without faith, by definition
hypocritical, certainly can lead to the abuses decried by the atheists in the
article. However, true and humble faith in a creative, loving, merciful,
judicious, and all-powerful God inspires and empowers believers to build a
better world for all people.
ALEXANDRA MEZZINA
The New Unbelievers
Books on atheism are hot. But do they have anything fresh to say?
By Jay Tolson
Posted Sunday, November 5, 2006
'Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live
to a great Age in that Country, without having their Piety shocked by meeting
with either an Atheist or an Infidel."
Little seems to have changed since Benjamin Franklin penned those words of
advice to would-be immigrants in 1782. Most polling data suggest that some 90
percent of Americans believe in God or a supreme spirit. And a recent University
of Minnesota study finds that atheists-or at least that lonely 1 percent of the
national mix that dares to identify itself as such-are the least trusted group
in America.
So why in this land of the God-fearing have the gloves-off arguments of a few
God-denying intellectuals been garnering such wide popular attention? Consider
book sales alone: Richard Dawkins's well-stocked arsenal of antireligious
thought, The God Delusion, currently claims the No. 7 spot on Amazon and No. 10
on the New York Times list, while Sam Harris's polemical Letter to a Christian
Nation bids fair to equal the sales of his 2004 bestseller, The End of Faith:
Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason. Meanwhile, Daniel Dennett's Breaking
the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon, though published last winter,
continues to spark controversy with its Darwinian take on the all-too-human urge
to believe. Beyond the world of books, magician Penn Jillette's paean to
godlessness, first broadcast a year ago on NPR's This I Believe, continues to be
among the most frequently visited stories on the NPR website
Rising skepticism? Do the polls simply have it wrong when it comes to Americans
and religion? British-born pundit Christopher Hitchens, author of the
forthcoming God Is Not Great, thinks so. "People lie about their beliefs all the
time," says Hitchens, who adds that he never gets more praise for his talk-show
appearances than when he goes after religion. Anecdotage may not trump polling,
but surveys exploring religious convictions in more nuanced terms lend some
credence to Hitchens's skepticism. One recent Harris Poll study found that 42
percent of adult Americans were not "absolutely certain" about the existence of
God, up from 34 percent three years ago.
If doubt is on the rise, Dawkins, the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public
Understanding of Science at Oxford University, thinks he knows why: "Six years
of Bush, which seems to be a step in the direction of theocracy, and the rise of
Islamic fundamentalism seem to suggest that the world is moving toward two
extreme religious views." Confessing to surprise at the size of his audiences on
his current U.S. book tour, Dawkins suggests that even moderate and liberal
believers are beginning to see that the slide into extremism may not be an
aberration but a recurrent tendency within religion.
Possibly. But do Dawkins and the other atheists add anything to a vigorous
tradition of skepticism and unbelief that includes the witty satire of Voltaire
and the brilliant cultural and psychological probings of Friedrich Nietzsche?
What is so new about "The New Atheism," as the November cover story of Wired
magazine dubbed the phenomenon?
Well, extremism, for one thing. Not only do the new atheists find religion
intellectually irredeemable, morally dubious, and socially unnecessary, they
judge it a clear and present danger, maybe even the greatest threat to the
survival of the species. If Voltaire wanted to "wipe out the infamy" of
religion, he really meant that he-like Thomas Jefferson and a number of
America's founders-wanted a more reasonable deism, a philosophical religion that
acknowledged an original designer but got rid of all the supernatural stuff,
including revealed truths and moral dictates that ran counter to reason. But
religion made reasonable or understood symbolically will not do for Dawkins or
Harris (though the latter sees some Eastern spiritual disciplines as acceptable,
and possibly even helpful to the moral life). Both are intent to show, as
Dawkins puts it, "that moderate religion makes the world safe for
fundamentalism."
It does so, they argue, by fostering an ethos of excessive deference and
restraint (some would say civility) when it comes to matters of faith. "It
insists that people not examine or subject their religious doctrines to the same
kind of scrutiny that scientific doctrines receive," says Harris, who is
currently completing graduate work in neuroscience. (He keeps the name of his
university and where he lives a secret, perhaps fearing retribution for his own
unrestrained swipes at religious shibboleths, particularly those of Islam.)
The idea of peaceful coexistence between religion and science-characterized by
the late Harvard biologist Stephen Jay Gould as respect for their
"nonoverlapping magisteria"-holds no appeal to most of the new atheists. Dawkins
insists that the religious magisterium is always overstepping its bounds, making
claims of scientific fact about the origins of the Earth, for example, that fly
in the face of all scientific evidence. Those scientists who are also religious
believers resort, Dawkins and Harris say, to the kind of specious arguments for
God that they would never tolerate within science. Both refer to Francis
Collins, head of the Human Genome Project, who makes the old argument-ridiculed
by Bertrand Russell as the "celestial teapot argument"-that God's existence
cannot be disproved. (Neither can the existence of a teapot orbiting the sun,
Russell tweaked.)
Philosophical arguments for or against God are more sophisticated than one might
learn from Dawkins, who sometimes comes close to confirming Francis Bacon's
adage that a "little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in
philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion." But he and the other new
atheists are more interesting when they challenge the unexamined confidence some
believers have in the adequacy, if not the necessity, of religion as a guide to
the good and moral life.
Two sides. To be sure, religionists and antireligionists go back and forth
citing their own statistics to make their respective cases. Dawkins and other
atheists charge that the religiously intense "red" states have higher rates of
violent crime and social breakdown than do the liberal "blue" states, while
believers claim that statistics suggest better behavioral outcomes among
religious people. Sociologist Penny Edgell, one of the authors of the University
of Minnesota study on attitudes toward atheists, finds that the statistical data
is inconclusive: "Religious involvement is closely related to socially
productive behavior. But does it cause or simply accompany socially productive
behaviors? Dawkins would say the latter." At the very least, the new atheists
make a compelling case that moral and socially productive behavior is in no way
dependent on religious belief.
Indeed, Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris argue that religious beliefs, particularly
those derived literally and selectively from religious texts, can lead to
behavior that is dubiously moral according to more universal principles of right
and wrong. The killing of innocents in the name of holy war is only the most
obvious instance. Discouraging the distribution of condoms in societies plagued
by AIDS on religious principles is another. "Religious people are able to talk
about morality without thinking about suffering," says Harris.
For those and other reasons, Dawkins and Harris conclude that religion itself
has outworn its social utility and should be retired from the field. They know
that religion cannot be banished politically, as past attempts (for example, in
France under Robespierre) have shown. The only way forward is for unbelievers to
make an unapologetic stand for unbelief. Dennett, by contrast, extends a
conciliatory hand to believers so long as they are willing to subject any
purported God-given moral edict to "the full light of reason, using all the
evidence at our command." Hitchens, for his part, sees "no chance for a final
victory over religious superstition." Hence the necessity of keeping it
restricted to the private sphere, he argues. "We have done so," Hitchens says,
"but secularism will always have to be defended."
Needless to say, many find the new atheists' indictment of religion misguided.
"Take religion out of the world," says Robert Wright, a visiting lecturer at
Princeton University, "would there be any less belligerent groupishness?"
Nationalism, he points out, can also produce monsters. At work on a book about
the changing character of religion, The Evolution of God, Wright says that
material, historical conditions always shape the way religious dogma and
scriptures are interpreted. "I am trying to find the circumstances conducive to
religious belligerence and those conducive to more benign expressions of the
religious impulse." What worries him most about the new atheists is that they
might undercut the very thing that makes America work as a civil society. "We
restrain ourselves from saying bad things about religion, from talking about it
at the dinner table. These guys want to talk about religion at the dinner
table."
.

User: "= Vox PopuliŠ"

Title: Re: => US News & World Report: Stupid Letters to Editor about Atheism 28 Nov 2006 03:29:26 PM
Lucifer wrote:

=> Vox PopuliŠ wrote:
<sneeeeyeerp>

This is relevant to alt.atheism, and a few other groups, but why post
it here?

So there are no Atheists who ride motorcycles?

(I notice you posted it twice to alt.atheism to. Trying to draw
attention to yourself or something?)

No, to the story, dipshit.
Here is the part you snipped:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett.htm

The authors of the three atheist books, Richard Dawkins [The God
Delusion], Sam Harris [Letter to a Christian Nation], and Daniel
Dennett [Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon],
apparently reject God on the grounds that religions perpetrate
actions that are harmful, and religious doctrine is incompatible with
science. General relativity, quantum mechanics, and string/M theory
are harder to explain without God than with God. All of nature, from
quarks to human consciousness, is so exquisite and awesome that it is
foolish to contend that it all came out of nowhere and evolved by
chance. It did evolve, but by the laws of chemistry and physics. The
God of Scripture is also the God of natural laws. Even if we live in
a probabilistic universe, those probabilities operate within the
constraints of intelligently designed natural laws. What we need is
not to abandon religion but to modernize our
understanding of God. BILL KLEMM
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett_2.htm
No one can deny that religions and religious adherents have their
faults. Even so, one only has to look back on the 20th century to
realize that whenever and wherever atheism prevailed, the death and
destruction that followed was on an unprecedented scale. Stalin's
atheistic Soviet Union and Hitler's atheistic Third Reich were
responsible for millions of deaths. If history is a guide to
atheistic dominance, I'd just as soon stick with the
flawed faithful. PEGGY MULLER
Sam Harris casts a bad light on all religious people, saying that
they don't think about suffering. I disagree. Although not a model
person, I am characterized by some as "religious," and I care very
much about suffering. Mother Teresa was "religious" and dedicated her
life to serving and trying to relieve suffering.
TARA WOLF

Being an atheist is a logically untenable position. If a person is
absolutely certain there is no God, he/she would then know everything
and would qualify for the title. I am a bit more comfortable with
some assumed humility in agnosticism.
TOM BAKER

It is important to differentiate between "religion" and "faith,"
especially in a discussion about whether religion harms people more
than helps. "Religion" is outward expression of belief in God, and
"faith" is one's personal belief in God. There are plenty of people
who are "religious," that is, they practice religion but do not have
true faith. Religion without faith, by definition hypocritical,
certainly can lead to the abuses decried by the atheists in the
article. However, true and humble faith in a creative, loving,
merciful, judicious, and all-powerful God inspires and empowers
believers to build a better world for all people.
ALEXANDRA MEZZINA


The New Unbelievers
Books on atheism are hot. But do they have anything fresh to say?
By Jay Tolson

Posted Sunday, November 5, 2006

'Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that
persons may live to a great Age in that Country, without having their
Piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist or an Infidel."

Little seems to have changed since Benjamin Franklin penned those
words of advice to would-be immigrants in 1782. Most polling data
suggest that some 90 percent of Americans believe in God or a supreme
spirit. And a recent University of Minnesota study finds that
atheists-or at least that lonely 1 percent of the national mix that
dares to identify itself as such-are the least trusted group in
America.
So why in this land of the God-fearing have the gloves-off arguments
of a few God-denying intellectuals been garnering such wide popular
attention? Consider book sales alone: Richard Dawkins's well-stocked
arsenal of antireligious thought, The God Delusion, currently claims
the No. 7 spot on Amazon and No. 10 on the New York Times list, while
Sam Harris's polemical Letter to a Christian Nation bids fair to
equal the sales of his 2004 bestseller, The End of Faith: Religion,
Terror, and the Future of Reason. Meanwhile, Daniel Dennett's
Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon, though
published last winter, continues to spark controversy with its
Darwinian take on the all-too-human urge to believe. Beyond the world
of books, magician Penn Jillette's paean to godlessness, first
broadcast a year ago on NPR's This I Believe, continues to be among
the most frequently visited stories on the NPR website
Rising skepticism? Do the polls simply have it wrong when it comes to
Americans and religion? British-born pundit Christopher Hitchens,
author of the forthcoming God Is Not Great, thinks so. "People lie
about their beliefs all the time," says Hitchens, who adds that he
never gets more praise for his talk-show appearances than when he
goes after religion. Anecdotage may not trump polling, but surveys
exploring religious convictions in more nuanced terms lend some
credence to Hitchens's skepticism. One recent Harris Poll study found
that 42 percent of adult Americans were not "absolutely certain"
about the existence of God, up from 34 percent three years ago.
If doubt is on the rise, Dawkins, the Charles Simonyi Professor of
the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, thinks he
knows why: "Six years of Bush, which seems to be a step in the
direction of theocracy, and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism seem
to suggest that the world is moving toward two extreme religious
views." Confessing to surprise at the size of his audiences on his
current U.S. book tour, Dawkins suggests that even moderate and
liberal believers are beginning to see that the slide into extremism
may not be an aberration but a recurrent tendency within religion.
Possibly. But do Dawkins and the other atheists add anything to a
vigorous tradition of skepticism and unbelief that includes the witty
satire of Voltaire and the brilliant cultural and psychological
probings of Friedrich Nietzsche? What is so new about "The New
Atheism," as the November cover story of Wired magazine dubbed the
phenomenon?
Well, extremism, for one thing. Not only do the new atheists find
religion intellectually irredeemable, morally dubious, and socially
unnecessary, they judge it a clear and present danger, maybe even the
greatest threat to the survival of the species. If Voltaire wanted to
"wipe out the infamy" of religion, he really meant that he-like
Thomas Jefferson and a number of America's founders-wanted a more
reasonable deism, a philosophical religion that acknowledged an
original designer but got rid of all the supernatural stuff,
including revealed truths and moral dictates that ran counter to
reason. But religion made reasonable or understood symbolically will
not do for Dawkins or Harris (though the latter sees some Eastern
spiritual disciplines as acceptable, and possibly even helpful to the
moral life). Both are intent to show, as Dawkins puts it, "that
moderate religion makes the world safe for fundamentalism."
It does so, they argue, by fostering an ethos of excessive deference
and restraint (some would say civility) when it comes to matters of
faith. "It insists that people not examine or subject their religious
doctrines to the same kind of scrutiny that scientific doctrines
receive," says Harris, who is currently completing graduate work in
neuroscience. (He keeps the name of his university and where he lives
a secret, perhaps fearing retribution for his own unrestrained swipes
at religious shibboleths, particularly those of Islam.)
The idea of peaceful coexistence between religion and
science-characterized by the late Harvard biologist Stephen Jay Gould
as respect for their "nonoverlapping magisteria"-holds no appeal to
most of the new atheists. Dawkins insists that the religious
magisterium is always overstepping its bounds, making claims of
scientific fact about the origins of the Earth, for example, that fly
in the face of all scientific evidence. Those scientists who are also
religious believers resort, Dawkins and Harris say, to the kind of
specious arguments for God that they would never tolerate within
science. Both refer to Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome
Project, who makes the old argument-ridiculed by Bertrand Russell as
the "celestial teapot argument"-that God's existence cannot be
disproved. (Neither can the existence of a teapot orbiting the sun,
Russell tweaked.)
Philosophical arguments for or against God are more sophisticated
than one might learn from Dawkins, who sometimes comes close to
confirming Francis Bacon's adage that a "little philosophy inclineth
man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds
about to religion." But he and the other new atheists are more
interesting when they challenge the unexamined confidence some
believers have in the adequacy, if not the necessity, of religion as
a guide to the good and moral life.
Two sides. To be sure, religionists and antireligionists go back and
forth citing their own statistics to make their respective cases.
Dawkins and other atheists charge that the religiously intense "red"
states have higher rates of violent crime and social breakdown than
do the liberal "blue" states, while believers claim that statistics
suggest better behavioral outcomes among religious people.
Sociologist Penny Edgell, one of the authors of the University of
Minnesota study on attitudes toward atheists, finds that the
statistical data is inconclusive: "Religious involvement is closely
related to socially productive behavior. But does it cause or simply
accompany socially productive behaviors? Dawkins would say the
latter." At the very least, the new atheists make a compelling case
that moral and socially productive behavior is in no way dependent on
religious belief.
Indeed, Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris argue that religious beliefs,
particularly those derived literally and selectively from religious
texts, can lead to behavior that is dubiously moral according to more
universal principles of right and wrong. The killing of innocents in
the name of holy war is only the most obvious instance. Discouraging
the distribution of condoms in societies plagued by AIDS on religious
principles is another. "Religious people are able to talk about
morality without thinking about suffering," says Harris.
For those and other reasons, Dawkins and Harris conclude that
religion itself has outworn its social utility and should be retired
from the field. They know that religion cannot be banished
politically, as past attempts (for example, in France under
Robespierre) have shown. The only way forward is for unbelievers to
make an unapologetic stand for unbelief. Dennett, by contrast,
extends a conciliatory hand to believers so long as they are willing
to subject any purported God-given moral edict to "the full light of
reason, using all the evidence at our command." Hitchens, for his
part, sees "no chance for a final victory over religious
superstition." Hence the necessity of keeping it restricted to the
private sphere, he argues. "We have done so," Hitchens says, "but
secularism will always have to be defended."
Needless to say, many find the new atheists' indictment of religion
misguided. "Take religion out of the world," says Robert Wright, a
visiting lecturer at Princeton University, "would there be any less
belligerent groupishness?" Nationalism, he points out, can also
produce monsters. At work on a book about the changing character of
religion, The Evolution of God, Wright says that material, historical
conditions always shape the way religious dogma and scriptures are
interpreted. "I am trying to find the circumstances conducive to
religious belligerence and those conducive to more benign expressions
of the religious impulse." What worries him most about the new
atheists is that they might undercut the very thing that makes
America work as a civil society. "We restrain ourselves from saying
bad things about religion, from talking about it at the dinner table.
These guys want to talk about religion at the dinner table."

.

User: "james"

Title: Re: => US News & World Report: Stupid Letters to Editor about Atheism 29 Nov 2006 03:03:35 PM
Richard Dawkins is a lone voice of reason amidst a sea of insanity.
http://www.futuregringo.com/index.php/2006/11/04/ted-haggard-vs-richard-daw=
kins-2/
=3D> Vox Populi=A9 wrote:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett.htm

The authors of the three atheist books, Richard Dawkins [The God
Delusion], Sam Harris [Letter to a Christian Nation], and Daniel
Dennett [Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon],
apparently reject God on the grounds that religions perpetrate
actions that are harmful, and religious doctrine is incompatible with
science. General relativity, quantum mechanics, and string/M theory
are harder to explain without God than with God. All of nature, from
quarks to human consciousness, is so exquisite and awesome that it is
foolish to contend that it all came out of nowhere and evolved by
chance. It did evolve, but by the laws of chemistry and physics. The
God of Scripture is also the God of natural laws. Even if we live in
a probabilistic universe, those probabilities operate within the
constraints of intelligently designed natural laws. What we need is
not to abandon religion but to modernize our
understanding of God. BILL KLEMM
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett_2.htm
No one can deny that religions and religious adherents have their
faults. Even so, one only has to look back on the 20th century to
realize that whenever and wherever atheism prevailed, the death and
destruction that followed was on an unprecedented scale. Stalin's
atheistic Soviet Union and Hitler's atheistic Third Reich were
responsible for millions of deaths. If history is a guide to
atheistic dominance, I'd just as soon stick with the
flawed faithful. PEGGY MULLER
Sam Harris casts a bad light on all religious people, saying that
they don't think about suffering. I disagree. Although not a model
person, I am characterized by some as "religious," and I care very
much about suffering. Mother Teresa was "religious" and dedicated her
life to serving and trying to relieve suffering.
TARA WOLF

Being an atheist is a logically untenable position. If a person is
absolutely certain there is no God, he/she would then know everything
and would qualify for the title. I am a bit more comfortable with
some assumed humility in agnosticism.
TOM BAKER

It is important to differentiate between "religion" and "faith,"
especially in a discussion about whether religion harms people more
than helps. "Religion" is outward expression of belief in God, and
"faith" is one's personal belief in God. There are plenty of people
who are "religious," that is, they practice religion but do not have
true faith. Religion without faith, by definition hypocritical,
certainly can lead to the abuses decried by the atheists in the
article. However, true and humble faith in a creative, loving,
merciful, judicious, and all-powerful God inspires and empowers
believers to build a better world for all people.
ALEXANDRA MEZZINA


The New Unbelievers
Books on atheism are hot. But do they have anything fresh to say?
By Jay Tolson

Posted Sunday, November 5, 2006

'Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that
persons may live to a great Age in that Country, without having their
Piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist or an Infidel."

Little seems to have changed since Benjamin Franklin penned those
words of advice to would-be immigrants in 1782. Most polling data
suggest that some 90 percent of Americans believe in God or a supreme
spirit. And a recent University of Minnesota study finds that
atheists-or at least that lonely 1 percent of the national mix that
dares to identify itself as such-are the least trusted group in
America.
So why in this land of the God-fearing have the gloves-off arguments
of a few God-denying intellectuals been garnering such wide popular
attention? Consider book sales alone: Richard Dawkins's well-stocked
arsenal of antireligious thought, The God Delusion, currently claims
the No. 7 spot on Amazon and No. 10 on the New York Times list, while
Sam Harris's polemical Letter to a Christian Nation bids fair to
equal the sales of his 2004 bestseller, The End of Faith: Religion,
Terror, and the Future of Reason. Meanwhile, Daniel Dennett's
Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon, though
published last winter, continues to spark controversy with its
Darwinian take on the all-too-human urge to believe. Beyond the world
of books, magician Penn Jillette's paean to godlessness, first
broadcast a year ago on NPR's This I Believe, continues to be among
the most frequently visited stories on the NPR website
Rising skepticism? Do the polls simply have it wrong when it comes to
Americans and religion? British-born pundit Christopher Hitchens,
author of the forthcoming God Is Not Great, thinks so. "People lie
about their beliefs all the time," says Hitchens, who adds that he
never gets more praise for his talk-show appearances than when he
goes after religion. Anecdotage may not trump polling, but surveys
exploring religious convictions in more nuanced terms lend some
credence to Hitchens's skepticism. One recent Harris Poll study found
that 42 percent of adult Americans were not "absolutely certain"
about the existence of God, up from 34 percent three years ago.
If doubt is on the rise, Dawkins, the Charles Simonyi Professor of
the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, thinks he
knows why: "Six years of Bush, which seems to be a step in the
direction of theocracy, and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism seem
to suggest that the world is moving toward two extreme religious
views." Confessing to surprise at the size of his audiences on his
current U.S. book tour, Dawkins suggests that even moderate and
liberal believers are beginning to see that the slide into extremism
may not be an aberration but a recurrent tendency within religion.
Possibly. But do Dawkins and the other atheists add anything to a
vigorous tradition of skepticism and unbelief that includes the witty
satire of Voltaire and the brilliant cultural and psychological
probings of Friedrich Nietzsche? What is so new about "The New
Atheism," as the November cover story of Wired magazine dubbed the
phenomenon?
Well, extremism, for one thing. Not only do the new atheists find
religion intellectually irredeemable, morally dubious, and socially
unnecessary, they judge it a clear and present danger, maybe even the
greatest threat to the survival of the species. If Voltaire wanted to
"wipe out the infamy" of religion, he really meant that he-like
Thomas Jefferson and a number of America's founders-wanted a more
reasonable deism, a philosophical religion that acknowledged an
original designer but got rid of all the supernatural stuff,
including revealed truths and moral dictates that ran counter to
reason. But religion made reasonable or understood symbolically will
not do for Dawkins or Harris (though the latter sees some Eastern
spiritual disciplines as acceptable, and possibly even helpful to the
moral life). Both are intent to show, as Dawkins puts it, "that
moderate religion makes the world safe for fundamentalism."
It does so, they argue, by fostering an ethos of excessive deference
and restraint (some would say civility) when it comes to matters of
faith. "It insists that people not examine or subject their religious
doctrines to the same kind of scrutiny that scientific doctrines
receive," says Harris, who is currently completing graduate work in
neuroscience. (He keeps the name of his university and where he lives
a secret, perhaps fearing retribution for his own unrestrained swipes
at religious shibboleths, particularly those of Islam.)
The idea of peaceful coexistence between religion and
science-characterized by the late Harvard biologist Stephen Jay Gould
as respect for their "nonoverlapping magisteria"-holds no appeal to
most of the new atheists. Dawkins insists that the religious
magisterium is always overstepping its bounds, making claims of
scientific fact about the origins of the Earth, for example, that fly
in the face of all scientific evidence. Those scientists who are also
religious believers resort, Dawkins and Harris say, to the kind of
specious arguments for God that they would never tolerate within
science. Both refer to Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome
Project, who makes the old argument-ridiculed by Bertrand Russell as
the "celestial teapot argument"-that God's existence cannot be
disproved. (Neither can the existence of a teapot orbiting the sun,
Russell tweaked.)
Philosophical arguments for or against God are more sophisticated
than one might learn from Dawkins, who sometimes comes close to
confirming Francis Bacon's adage that a "little philosophy inclineth
man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds
about to religion." But he and the other new atheists are more
interesting when they challenge the unexamined confidence some
believers have in the adequacy, if not the necessity, of religion as
a guide to the good and moral life.
Two sides. To be sure, religionists and antireligionists go back and
forth citing their own statistics to make their respective cases.
Dawkins and other atheists charge that the religiously intense "red"
states have higher rates of violent crime and social breakdown than
do the liberal "blue" states, while believers claim that statistics
suggest better behavioral outcomes among religious people.
Sociologist Penny Edgell, one of the authors of the University of
Minnesota study on attitudes toward atheists, finds that the
statistical data is inconclusive: "Religious involvement is closely
related to socially productive behavior. But does it cause or simply
accompany socially productive behaviors? Dawkins would say the
latter." At the very least, the new atheists make a compelling case
that moral and socially productive behavior is in no way dependent on
religious belief.
Indeed, Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris argue that religious beliefs,
particularly those derived literally and selectively from religious
texts, can lead to behavior that is dubiously moral according to more
universal principles of right and wrong. The killing of innocents in
the name of holy war is only the most obvious instance. Discouraging
the distribution of condoms in societies plagued by AIDS on religious
principles is another. "Religious people are able to talk about
morality without thinking about suffering," says Harris.
For those and other reasons, Dawkins and Harris conclude that
religion itself has outworn its social utility and should be retired
from the field. They know that religion cannot be banished
politically, as past attempts (for example, in France under
Robespierre) have shown. The only way forward is for unbelievers to
make an unapologetic stand for unbelief. Dennett, by contrast,
extends a conciliatory hand to believers so long as they are willing
to subject any purported God-given moral edict to "the full light of
reason, using all the evidence at our command." Hitchens, for his
part, sees "no chance for a final victory over religious
superstition." Hence the necessity of keeping it restricted to the
private sphere, he argues. "We have done so," Hitchens says, "but
secularism will always have to be defended."
Needless to say, many find the new atheists' indictment of religion
misguided. "Take religion out of the world," says Robert Wright, a
visiting lecturer at Princeton University, "would there be any less
belligerent groupishness?" Nationalism, he points out, can also
produce monsters. At work on a book about the changing character of
religion, The Evolution of God, Wright says that material, historical
conditions always shape the way religious dogma and scriptures are
interpreted. "I am trying to find the circumstances conducive to
religious belligerence and those conducive to more benign expressions
of the religious impulse." What worries him most about the new
atheists is that they might undercut the very thing that makes
America work as a civil society. "We restrain ourselves from saying
bad things about religion, from talking about it at the dinner table.
These guys want to talk about religion at the dinner table."

.
User: "Greywolf"

Title: Re: => US News & World Report: Stupid Letters to Editor about Atheism 30 Nov 2006 12:11:55 AM
"james" <tune2828@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1164834215.807214.220200@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Richard Dawkins is a lone voice of reason amidst a sea of insanity.
Thankfully, that is not exactly true. There are many 'voices of reason' in
the world. And more and more will arise. Religion is based on nothing more
than fantasy. Don't believe it? Produce a living, breathing, deity that
*anyone* could recognize as deity. And without the need for 'faith'!
http://www.futuregringo.com/index.php/2006/11/04/ted-haggard-vs-richard-dawkins-2/
=> Vox PopuliŠ wrote:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett.htm

The authors of the three atheist books, Richard Dawkins [The God
Delusion], Sam Harris [Letter to a Christian Nation], and Daniel
Dennett [Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon],
apparently reject God on the grounds that religions perpetrate
actions that are harmful, and religious doctrine is incompatible with
science. General relativity, quantum mechanics, and string/M theory
are harder to explain without God than with God.

No they're not! That's just 'trash talk' coming from someone who can't seem
to find Mr. God -- no matter where he looks -- and as a result has to use
the ole' 'You can't explain *every* single aspect of our existence, so that
*proves* a 'God' exists argument. Problem is, God is running out of places
to (deliberately) hide. He so loved his creation that he 'possessed' a human
in order for that unfortunate to be tortured and crucified, but departed
from that poor creature *before* the unfortunate underwent torture and
crucifixion. A 'God' can't feel torture, pain, and actual 'death' -- can
one?
A 'God' minus the Jesus nonsense, you say? Where's any more proof for the
existence of *that* one? Where does the *knowledge* that there actually is
one, stem from. If it rests simply on the fact that the universe is awesome,
that proves nothing insofar as a 'God' is concerned. You can't grab 'it' by
the lapels, drag 'it' out of the sky, and say, 'Look-ee here! We got us a
'God'!
All of nature, from

quarks to human consciousness, is so exquisite and awesome that it is
foolish to contend that it all came out of nowhere and evolved by
chance.

And an invisible 'God' who does his best to elude any detection of him
created the universe for *what* purpose?
It did evolve, but by the laws of chemistry and physics. The

God of Scripture is also the God of natural laws.

Really? Care to provide some proof of that. Or is that some more
condescending theist talk based on a deeply-held belief in the absurd and
unprovable? But said with *such* assurance!
Even if we live in

a probabilistic universe, those probabilities operate within the
constraints of intelligently designed natural laws. What we need is
not to abandon religion but to modernize our
understanding of God. BILL KLEMM

You mean change the 'nature' of 'God' in order to shake off the 'proofs'
that the 'old' one was make-believe -- a 'mistake', if you will -- in order
to expose the 'real' *true* 'God' who has not a shred more 'proof' that 'he'
is any more 'real' than the 'false', old 'God'?

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett_2.htm
No one can deny that religions and religious adherents have their
faults. Even so, one only has to look back on the 20th century to
realize that whenever and wherever atheism prevailed, the death and
destruction that followed was on an unprecedented scale.

Let me guess. You're going to bring up Stalin and his 'Christian'
underlings. And you're going to bring up Hitler and all those Christians
that surrounded him, and who did his evil bidding with guns constantly
pointed at their heads.
Stalin's

atheistic Soviet Union and Hitler's atheistic Third Reich were
responsible for millions of deaths.

Awww, I was hoping you selective pickers of 'evil' wouldn't resort to
*those* two again! What, run out of evil atheist dictators and their all too
willfully serving Christian henchmen to beat on?
If history is a guide to

atheistic dominance, I'd just as soon stick with the
flawed faithful.

You mean like the 'Crusaders' mercilessly slaughtered Muslims just because
they were Muslims? And those behind the Inquisitions and the Salem Witch
Hunts? I don't doubt that for a minute.
PEGGY MULLER

Sam Harris casts a bad light on all religious people, saying that
they don't think about suffering. I disagree.

Well I invite you to spend a week out here and watch what some Christians
out my way think about a person who doesn't share their views have to show
you what they think of the 'suffering' of others.
Although not a model

person, I am characterized by some as "religious," and I care very
much about suffering. Mother Teresa was "religious" and dedicated her
life to serving and trying to relieve suffering.
TARA WOLF

Being an atheist is a logically untenable position. If a person is
absolutely certain there is no God, he/she would then know everything
and would qualify for the title.

Let me see. If an atheist is 'absolutely certain' that there is no 'God',
*that* would make the atheist a 'God'? Is that what I'm 'hearing' here?
I am a bit more comfortable with

some assumed humility in agnosticism.
TOM BAKER

Well why not just take a stab in the dark and believe there *is* a 'God'?
What's the matter? Don't have enough proof that there is one? There *should*
be *some* of that. Don't you agree?

It is important to differentiate between "religion" and "faith,"
especially in a discussion about whether religion harms people more
than helps. "Religion" is outward expression of belief in God, and
"faith" is one's personal belief in God. There are plenty of people
who are "religious," that is, they practice religion but do not have
true faith. Religion without faith, by definition hypocritical,
certainly can lead to the abuses decried by the atheists in the
article. However, true and humble faith in a creative, loving,
merciful, judicious, and all-powerful God inspires and empowers
believers to build a better world for all people.
ALEXANDRA MEZZINA

How about all the agony, anguish, pain, suffering, mayhem and death that has
surrounded man since he became 'man'? The same 'God' would have to be
responsible for that too. Would he not? *And* for the wars fought in his
'name'. I would take it.


The New Unbelievers
Books on atheism are hot. But do they have anything fresh to say?
By Jay Tolson

Yeah! Belief in 'God' is nothing more than brainwashed delusion. And the
clergy have nothing to prove that it isn't.

Posted Sunday, November 5, 2006

'Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that
persons may live to a great Age in that Country, without having their
Piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist or an Infidel."

Little seems to have changed since Benjamin Franklin penned those
words of advice to would-be immigrants in 1782. Most polling data
suggest that some 90 percent of Americans believe in God or a supreme
spirit. And a recent University of Minnesota study finds that
atheists-or at least that lonely 1 percent of the national mix that
dares to identify itself as such-are the least trusted group in
America.
So why in this land of the God-fearing have the gloves-off arguments
of a few God-denying intellectuals been garnering such wide popular
attention? Consider book sales alone: Richard Dawkins's well-stocked
arsenal of antireligious thought, The God Delusion, currently claims
the No. 7 spot on Amazon and No. 10 on the New York Times list, while
Sam Harris's polemical Letter to a Christian Nation bids fair to
equal the sales of his 2004 bestseller, The End of Faith: Religion,
Terror, and the Future of Reason. Meanwhile, Daniel Dennett's
Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon, though
published last winter, continues to spark controversy with its
Darwinian take on the all-too-human urge to believe. Beyond the world
of books, magician Penn Jillette's paean to godlessness, first
broadcast a year ago on NPR's This I Believe, continues to be among
the most frequently visited stories on the NPR website
Rising skepticism? Do the polls simply have it wrong when it comes to
Americans and religion? British-born pundit Christopher Hitchens,
author of the forthcoming God Is Not Great, thinks so. "People lie
about their beliefs all the time," says Hitchens, who adds that he
never gets more praise for his talk-show appearances than when he
goes after religion. Anecdotage may not trump polling, but surveys
exploring religious convictions in more nuanced terms lend some
credence to Hitchens's skepticism. One recent Harris Poll study found
that 42 percent of adult Americans were not "absolutely certain"
about the existence of God, up from 34 percent three years ago.
If doubt is on the rise, Dawkins, the Charles Simonyi Professor of
the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, thinks he
knows why: "Six years of Bush, which seems to be a step in the
direction of theocracy, and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism seem
to suggest that the world is moving toward two extreme religious
views." Confessing to surprise at the size of his audiences on his
current U.S. book tour, Dawkins suggests that even moderate and
liberal believers are beginning to see that the slide into extremism
may not be an aberration but a recurrent tendency within religion.
Possibly. But do Dawkins and the other atheists add anything to a
vigorous tradition of skepticism and unbelief that includes the witty
satire of Voltaire and the brilliant cultural and psychological
probings of Friedrich Nietzsche? What is so new about "The New
Atheism," as the November cover story of Wired magazine dubbed the
phenomenon?
Well, extremism, for one thing. Not only do the new atheists find
religion intellectually irredeemable, morally dubious, and socially
unnecessary, they judge it a clear and present danger, maybe even the
greatest threat to the survival of the species. If Voltaire wanted to
"wipe out the infamy" of religion, he really meant that he-like
Thomas Jefferson and a number of America's founders-wanted a more
reasonable deism, a philosophical religion that acknowledged an
original designer but got rid of all the supernatural stuff,
including revealed truths and moral dictates that ran counter to
reason. But religion made reasonable or understood symbolically will
not do for Dawkins or Harris (though the latter sees some Eastern
spiritual disciplines as acceptable, and possibly even helpful to the
moral life). Both are intent to show, as Dawkins puts it, "that
moderate religion makes the world safe for fundamentalism."
It does so, they argue, by fostering an ethos of excessive deference
and restraint (some would say civility) when it comes to matters of
faith. "It insists that people not examine or subject their religious
doctrines to the same kind of scrutiny that scientific doctrines
receive," says Harris, who is currently completing graduate work in
neuroscience. (He keeps the name of his university and where he lives
a secret, perhaps fearing retribution for his own unrestrained swipes
at religious shibboleths, particularly those of Islam.)
The idea of peaceful coexistence between religion and
science-characterized by the late Harvard biologist Stephen Jay Gould
as respect for their "nonoverlapping magisteria"-holds no appeal to
most of the new atheists. Dawkins insists that the religious
magisterium is always overstepping its bounds, making claims of
scientific fact about the origins of the Earth, for example, that fly
in the face of all scientific evidence. Those scientists who are also
religious believers resort, Dawkins and Harris say, to the kind of
specious arguments for God that they would never tolerate within
science. Both refer to Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome
Project, who makes the old argument-ridiculed by Bertrand Russell as
the "celestial teapot argument"-that God's existence cannot be
disproved. (Neither can the existence of a teapot orbiting the sun,
Russell tweaked.)
Philosophical arguments for or against God are more sophisticated
than one might learn from Dawkins, who sometimes comes close to
confirming Francis Bacon's adage that a "little philosophy inclineth
man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds
about to religion." But he and the other new atheists are more
interesting when they challenge the unexamined confidence some
believers have in the adequacy, if not the necessity, of religion as
a guide to the good and moral life.
Two sides. To be sure, religionists and antireligionists go back and
forth citing their own statistics to make their respective cases.
Dawkins and other atheists charge that the religiously intense "red"
states have higher rates of violent crime and social breakdown than
do the liberal "blue" states, while believers claim that statistics
suggest better behavioral outcomes among religious people.
Sociologist Penny Edgell, one of the authors of the University of
Minnesota study on attitudes toward atheists, finds that the
statistical data is inconclusive: "Religious involvement is closely
related to socially productive behavior. But does it cause or simply
accompany socially productive behaviors? Dawkins would say the
latter." At the very least, the new atheists make a compelling case
that moral and socially productive behavior is in no way dependent on
religious belief.
Indeed, Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris argue that religious beliefs,
particularly those derived literally and selectively from religious
texts, can lead to behavior that is dubiously moral according to more
universal principles of right and wrong. The killing of innocents in
the name of holy war is only the most obvious instance. Discouraging
the distribution of condoms in societies plagued by AIDS on religious
principles is another. "Religious people are able to talk about
morality without thinking about suffering," says Harris.
For those and other reasons, Dawkins and Harris conclude that
religion itself has outworn its social utility and should be retired
from the field. They know that religion cannot be banished
politically, as past attempts (for example, in France under
Robespierre) have shown. The only way forward is for unbelievers to
make an unapologetic stand for unbelief. Dennett, by contrast,
extends a conciliatory hand to believers so long as they are willing
to subject any purported God-given moral edict to "the full light of
reason, using all the evidence at our command." Hitchens, for his
part, sees "no chance for a final victory over religious
superstition." Hence the necessity of keeping it restricted to the
private sphere, he argues. "We have done so," Hitchens says, "but
secularism will always have to be defended."
Needless to say, many find the new atheists' indictment of religion
misguided. "Take religion out of the world," says Robert Wright, a
visiting lecturer at Princeton University, "would there be any less
belligerent groupishness?" Nationalism, he points out, can also
produce monsters. At work on a book about the changing character of
religion, The Evolution of God, Wright says that material, historical
conditions always shape the way religious dogma and scriptures are
interpreted. "I am trying to find the circumstances conducive to
religious belligerence and those conducive to more benign expressions
of the religious impulse." What worries him most about the new
atheists is that they might undercut the very thing that makes
America work as a civil society. "We restrain ourselves from saying
bad things about religion, from talking about it at the dinner table.
These guys want to talk about religion at the dinner table."

As one atheist being treated so brutally for not 'loving Jesus' or embracing
Christianity -- and worse, for not buckling before the evil monstrosity who
'controls' these mindless automatons for his own selfish, greedy, and
depraved desires -- I cannot *hope* to embrace so ignorant a group of people
who do not see the utter hypocrisy in what they are doing. Phooey! on them!
What immoral filth!
If I saw 'Christians' registering their outrage and moral indignation at
what is being done to me out here, I would think I would go back to at least
*respecting* some of them again.
Greywolf
.


User: "james"

Title: Re: => US News & World Report: Stupid Letters to Editor about Atheism 29 Nov 2006 03:03:41 PM
Richard Dawkins is a lone voice of reason amidst a sea of insanity.
http://www.futuregringo.com/index.php/2006/11/04/ted-haggard-vs-richard-daw=
kins-2/
=3D> Vox Populi=A9 wrote:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett.htm

The authors of the three atheist books, Richard Dawkins [The God
Delusion], Sam Harris [Letter to a Christian Nation], and Daniel
Dennett [Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon],
apparently reject God on the grounds that religions perpetrate
actions that are harmful, and religious doctrine is incompatible with
science. General relativity, quantum mechanics, and string/M theory
are harder to explain without God than with God. All of nature, from
quarks to human consciousness, is so exquisite and awesome that it is
foolish to contend that it all came out of nowhere and evolved by
chance. It did evolve, but by the laws of chemistry and physics. The
God of Scripture is also the God of natural laws. Even if we live in
a probabilistic universe, those probabilities operate within the
constraints of intelligently designed natural laws. What we need is
not to abandon religion but to modernize our
understanding of God. BILL KLEMM
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/letters/articles/061126/4lett_2.htm
No one can deny that religions and religious adherents have their
faults. Even so, one only has to look back on the 20th century to
realize that whenever and wherever atheism prevailed, the death and
destruction that followed was on an unprecedented scale. Stalin's
atheistic Soviet Union and Hitler's atheistic Third Reich were
responsible for millions of deaths. If history is a guide to
atheistic dominance, I'd just as soon stick with the
flawed faithful. PEGGY MULLER
Sam Harris casts a bad light on all religious people, saying that
they don't think about suffering. I disagree. Although not a model
person, I am characterized by some as "religious," and I care very
much about suffering. Mother Teresa was "religious" and dedicated her
life to serving and trying to relieve suffering.
TARA WOLF

Being an atheist is a logically untenable position. If a person is
absolutely certain there is no God, he/she would then know everything
and would qualify for the title. I am a bit more comfortable with
some assumed humility in agnosticism.
TOM BAKER

It is important to differentiate between "religion" and "faith,"
especially in a discussion about whether religion harms people more
than helps. "Religion" is outward expression of belief in God, and
"faith" is one's personal belief in God. There are plenty of people
who are "religious," that is, they practice religion but do not have
true faith. Religion without faith, by definition hypocritical,
certainly can lead to the abuses decried by the atheists in the
article. However, true and humble faith in a creative, loving,
merciful, judicious, and all-powerful God inspires and empowers
believers to build a better world for all people.
ALEXANDRA MEZZINA


The New Unbelievers
Books on atheism are hot. But do they have anything fresh to say?
By Jay Tolson

Posted Sunday, November 5, 2006

'Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that
persons may live to a great Age in that Country, without having their
Piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist or an Infidel."

Little seems to have changed since Benjamin Franklin penned those
words of advice to would-be immigrants in 1782. Most polling data
suggest that some 90 percent of Americans believe in God or a supreme
spirit. And a recent University of Minnesota study finds that
atheists-or at least that lonely 1 percent of the national mix that
dares to identify itself as such-are the least trusted group in
America.
So why in this land of the God-fearing have the gloves-off arguments
of a few God-denying intellectuals been garnering such wide popular
attention? Consider book sales alone: Richard Dawkins's well-stocked
arsenal of antireligious thought, The God Delusion, currently claims
the No. 7 spot on Amazon and No. 10 on the New York Times list, while
Sam Harris's polemical Letter to a Christian Nation bids fair to
equal the sales of his 2004 bestseller, The End of Faith: Religion,
Terror, and the Future of Reason. Meanwhile, Daniel Dennett's
Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon, though
published last winter, continues to spark controversy with its
Darwinian take on the all-too-human urge to believe. Beyond the world
of books, magician Penn Jillette's paean to godlessness, first
broadcast a year ago on NPR's This I Believe, continues to be among
the most frequently visited stories on the NPR website
Rising skepticism? Do the polls simply have it wrong when it comes to
Americans and religion? British-born pundit Christopher Hitchens,
author of the forthcoming God Is Not Great, thinks so. "People lie
about their beliefs all the time," says Hitchens, who adds that he
never gets more praise for his talk-show appearances than when he
goes after religion. Anecdotage may not trump polling, but surveys
exploring religious convictions in more nuanced terms lend some
credence to Hitchens's skepticism. One recent Harris Poll study found
that 42 percent of adult Americans were not "absolutely certain"
about the existence of God, up from 34 percent three years ago.
If doubt is on the rise, Dawkins, the Charles Simonyi Professor of
the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, thinks he
knows why: "Six years of Bush, which seems to be a step in the
direction of theocracy, and the rise of Islamic fundamentalism seem
to suggest that the world is moving toward two extreme religious
views." Confessing to surprise at the size of his audiences on his
current U.S. book tour, Dawkins suggests that even moderate and
liberal believers are beginning to see that the slide into extremism
may not be an aberration but a recurrent tendency within religion.
Possibly. But do Dawkins and the other atheists add anything to a
vigorous tradition of skepticism and unbelief that includes the witty
satire of Voltaire and the brilliant cultural and psychological
probings of Friedrich Nietzsche? What is so new about "The New
Atheism," as the November cover story of Wired magazine dubbed the
phenomenon?
Well, extremism, for one thing. Not only do the new atheists find
religion intellectually irredeemable, morally dubious, and socially
unnecessary, they judge it a clear and present danger, maybe even the
greatest threat to the survival of the species. If Voltaire wanted to
"wipe out the infamy" of religion, he really meant that he-like
Thomas Jefferson and a number of America's founders-wanted a more
reasonable deism, a philosophical religion that acknowledged an
original designer but got rid of all the supernatural stuff,
including revealed truths and moral dictates that ran counter to
reason. But religion made reasonable or understood symbolically will
not do for Dawkins or Harris (though the latter sees some Eastern
spiritual disciplines as acceptable, and possibly even helpful to the
moral life). Both are intent to show, as Dawkins puts it, "that
moderate religion makes the world safe for fundamentalism."
It does so, they argue, by fostering an ethos of excessive deference
and restraint (some would say civility) when it comes to matters of
faith. "It insists that people not examine or subject their religious
doctrines to the same kind of scrutiny that scientific doctrines
receive," says Harris, who is currently completing graduate work in
neuroscience. (He keeps the name of his university and where he lives
a secret, perhaps fearing retribution for his own unrestrained swipes
at religious shibboleths, particularly those of Islam.)
The idea of peaceful coexistence between religion and
science-characterized by the late Harvard biologist Stephen Jay Gould
as respect for their "nonoverlapping magisteria"-holds no appeal to
most of the new atheists. Dawkins insists that the religious
magisterium is always overstepping its bounds, making claims of
scientific fact about the origins of the Earth, for example, that fly
in the face of all scientific evidence. Those scientists who are also
religious believers resort, Dawkins and Harris say, to the kind of
specious arguments for God that they would never tolerate within
science. Both refer to Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome
Project, who makes the old argument-ridiculed by Bertrand Russell as
the "celestial teapot argument"-that God's existence cannot be
disproved. (Neither can the existence of a teapot orbiting the sun,
Russell tweaked.)
Philosophical arguments for or against God are more sophisticated
than one might learn from Dawkins, who sometimes comes close to
confirming Francis Bacon's adage that a "little philosophy inclineth
man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds
about to religion." But he and the other new atheists are more
interesting when they challenge the unexamined confidence some
believers have in the adequacy, if not the necessity, of religion as
a guide to the good and moral life.
Two sides. To be sure, religionists and antireligionists go back and
forth citing their own statistics to make their respective cases.
Dawkins and other atheists charge that the religiously intense "red"
states have higher rates of violent crime and social breakdown than
do the liberal "blue" states, while believers claim that statistics
suggest better behavioral outcomes among religious people.
Sociologist Penny Edgell, one of the authors of the University of
Minnesota study on attitudes toward atheists, finds that the
statistical data is inconclusive: "Religious involvement is closely
related to socially productive behavior. But does it cause or simply
accompany socially productive behaviors? Dawkins would say the
latter." At the very least, the new atheists make a compelling case
that moral and socially productive behavior is in no way dependent on
religious belief.
Indeed, Dawkins, Dennett, and Harris argue that religious beliefs,
particularly those derived literally and selectively from religious
texts, can lead to behavior that is dubiously moral according to more
universal principles of right and wrong. The killing of innocents in
the name of holy war is only the most obvious instance. Discouraging
the distribution of condoms in societies plagued by AIDS on religious
principles is another. "Religious people are able to talk about
morality without thinking about suffering," says Harris.
For those and other reasons, Dawkins and Harris conclude that
religion itself has outworn its social utility and should be retired
from the field. They know that religion cannot be banished
politically, as past attempts (for example, in France under
Robespierre) have shown. The only way forward is for unbelievers to
make an unapologetic stand for unbelief. Dennett, by contrast,
extends a conciliatory hand to believers so long as they are willing
to subject any purported God-given moral edict to "the full light of
reason, using all the evidence at our command." Hitchens, for his
part, sees "no chance for a final victory over religious
superstition." Hence the necessity of keeping it restricted to the
private sphere, he argues. "We have done so," Hitchens says, "but
secularism will always have to be defended."
Needless to say, many find the new atheists' indictment of religion
misguided. "Take religion out of the world," says Robert Wright, a
visiting lecturer at Princeton University, "would there be any less
belligerent groupishness?" Nationalism, he points out, can also
produce monsters. At work on a book about the changing character of
religion, The Evolution of God, Wright says that material, historical
conditions always shape the way religious dogma and scriptures are
interpreted. "I am trying to find the circumstances conducive to
religious belligerence and those conducive to more benign expressions
of the religious impulse." What worries him most about the new
atheists is that they might undercut the very thing that makes
America work as a civil society. "We restrain ourselves from saying
bad things about religion, from talking about it at the dinner table.
These guys want to talk about religion at the dinner table."

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