| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
11 Sep 2003 02:39:54 PM |
| Object: |
!0 Com, USSC, Founding FACTS |
Let me set the record straight on a few points and misconceptions, some
stated over and over by the religious right types here and some stated by
separationist that post in these threads as well
SOME FACTS:
(1) The Ten Commandments are not the basis of American Law.
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(2) The roots of American law come from a variety of sources:
(a)Study Guide: The Roots of American Democracy
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/studygd8.htm
(b) Roots of American Law
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/histlaw.htm
(3) The Ten Commandments are not the foundation, not the model, not linked
to
(a) The Declaration of Independence
(b) The Articles of Confederation
(c) Northwest Ordinance
(d) Constitution
(e) Bill of Rights
(4) The Ten Commandments, as such, per se, DO NOT APPEAR ANYWHERE in the
United States Supreme Court Building.
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(5) What does appear in the USSC Building is the following:
(a) On the bottom half of each of the wooden doors leading into the
court room there a item of artwork that depicts two stone tablets.
The tablets do not show any writing but do contain the Roman Numerals I-X
See pics I took in March 1997
Entire door
http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/scdoor.jpg
Close up of door
http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/scdoor3.jpg
(b) Moses is depicted holding a single tablet on the south wall
frieze. This tablet appears to have Roman numerals on it. it is only
partially shown as the figure of Moses covers much of it.
(c)Moses is positioned in the center of the east Pediment sitting
with two other famous lawgivers standing on each side of him. he is holding
two stone tablets one resting on each thigh. The tablets are blank
(Source: Descriptions of the friezes in the Courtroom of
the Supreme Court of the United States and of the east and west Pediments
of the Building Exterior, an official publication sent out by the curators
office, Supreme Court Building, Washington D C)
(d) All of the artwork in and on the outside of the USSC building
are part of a central theme. That theme is: The designs, artwork, etc,
there have the function of portraying the development of secular law.
The Mosaic Law was a part of that development. along with all the other
examples given. That is the entire point, the Ten Commandments (their
representations) are totally removed from their religious setting and
placed in a accurate and proper setting of the development of secular law
throughout history.
Now, even though the Ten Commandments do not really appear anywhere in or
on the Supreme Court building artwork (blank tablets, Roman Numerals),
advocates of public placement of said commandments constantly refer to the
Supreme Court as their source for precedence for public placement of the
Ten Commandments.
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(6) There is a certain formula that is depicted by the artwork found inside
and one the outside of the USSC building that makes the "Ten Commandments"
representation that can be found there to be acceptable.
What we now see is men like Judge Moore and others trying to alter that
formula in efforts to get their "art works" situated in public buildings.
The formula they are following is to depict their version of what they call
American history. Thus thy might toss in some sort of representation of the
DOI, the BORs, perhaps the Constitution, possibly some quotes from various
selected founders and important men and the TEN COMMANDMENTS.
All that is is a is a ***** poor attempt to sneak the Ten Commandments in by
trying to falsely linking them with those other documents. They are NOT
HISTORICALLY LINKED to those other documents anymore so than hundreds,
maybe thousands of other documents, laws, cases, etc dating back from now
to history far older than that which generated the Ten Commandments. They
have no VALID connection to any of those documents beyond what i just
stated However, by depicting them in the manner Moore and others like him
are doing, they are trying to create the impression there is a link.
The correct formula is simple. The laws of ancient Israel and this includes
the Ten Commandments, do occupy a shelf in the bookcase of the history of
law. When the Ten Commandments are included in a display of the type that
shows that over all development of secular law, they are perfectly
acceptable.
Shortcut displays designed to build false links and bridges between this
nation's founding, American Law, and the Ten Commandments are not valid nor
acceptable.
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(7) From: (Cary Kittrell)
Newsgroups:
alt.education,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.republican,law.court.federal
Subject: Re: Today's Founder Quote: How far the Judiciary has come to annoy
the Constitution by its lack of 'seperaton'
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:39:54 +0000 (UTC)
. . . Everyone keeps repeating the claim that the Ten Commandments
form the basis of our Judicial system, but no one -- noooo one --
will reply to the following logical examination of this claim.
Here, let me try again and perhaps you'll be brave enough to step forward?
If the Ten Commandments historically underpin our legal system,
then we will perforce find them embodied in our laws. That would
seem particularly to be true of the First Commandment, which was
the only one Jesus singles out as necessary. So, can these
essential and absolutely fundamental principles of all American
jurisprudence actually be found embedded prominently in American laws?
If they are not, then the claim that they have led to our system of
laws is clearly bogus, however reassuring it may feel to repeat it.
You do not build a legal system on a certain foundation and then rip
out that foundation.
1. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Do we outlaw worshipping other gods? If not, why not?
2. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image."
Is statuary a misdemeanor or perhaps a felony? If not, why not?
God clearly seems to think it should be.
3. "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain"
Can I be fined for a "goddamit!" on hitting my thumb? If not,
then why does our legal system, founded on the Ten Commandments,
not mandate this?
4. "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."
There are so-called Blue Laws still on the books, but
the Supreme Court has said they may stand only if they
are demonstrably there for secular, and not religious, reasons.
Needless to say, this rules out stoning, which God elsewhere
in the Bible clearly designates as the necessary penalty for
violation of this commandment.
5. "Honor thy father and thy mother."
The Bible makes clear that flouting this is a capital crime.
Is it a capital crime in our system? Is it a crime at all?
If not, then how does this underpin our legal system?
6. "Thou shalt not kill."
This one we do encapsulate. As does ever other, non-
Judeo-Christian culture. It's not specific to the
Ten Commandments, it's universal.
7. "Thou shalt not commit adultery"
Are there still laws such as this on the books, or have
they all been repealed by now? In any event, our legal
system NEVER enforces this, except as grounds for divorce.
8. "Thou shalt not steal."
Check. We have this one. So does every other culture.
9. "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
Is lying a crime in our system of laws? It is, but only
in very limited circumstances, involving the police and
the courts. Everyday lying is not even a misdemeanor.
10. "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, nor anything that
is thy neighbor's."
Obviously there are now laws against coveting. If there were,
our entire consumer-based capitalilstic system would be in
serious jeopardy.
So here you have the ten that historically underlie our system
of laws. Or so it is claimed. Why, then, are only two of them
fully realized in our actual laws (the universal two), five of them
entirely absent -- including the most important one -- and the remaining
three weakly represented at best?
-- cary
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(8) The Seven Lost Commandments
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/7lostcom.htm
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(9) Rev. John Leland on the Ten Commandments, Judge Moore and other
related things
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/leland10.htm
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