10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Gactimus"
Date:	05 Nov 2004 09:42:38 AM
Object:	10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party

Here’s the best I can do for Democrats if they are serious about actually
winning elections in the future, and not just interested in calling
Republicans "idiots" and "liars." Here goes, try to follow along.
1) People who go to church are not evil. They also vote. There are lots of
them. You do the math.
2) Americans like guns. This won't change. Ever. Work harder to put cop
killers into the electric chair, and stop reaching for Bubba's 12-guage
"duck-shredder" in the back window of his pickup.
3) Get some balls on national defense. President JFK, won the biggest "No-
Limit Hold 'Em" hand of the 20th century against the Soviet Union during
the Cuban missile crisis. (And he was only holding two-Jacks!) What the
hell happened to you people ever since?
4) If you want to connect with the "common man", try NOT to nominate French
speaking, trophy-wife hunting, aloof windsurfers who can't even throw a
baseball 60'6".
5) Tell Michael Moore to go bury himself in a truckload of Hostess
Twinkies. Every party has their freak element. Do you see Pat Buchanan
being trotted out by the GOP anymore?
6) If you think gays should have the right to get married, then win the
argument with the public first. Don't ask judges to cut corners for you.
7) Stop courting the "Youth Vote." Counting on a bunch of Ludacris blasting
punks to save you politically on election day, is like an NBA team saying:
"Don't worry, Shaq's gonna make these free throws."
8) Have lunch with Zell Miller, and actually listen to what he has to say.
You tried dismissing him as a lunatic, but his convention speech was more
spot-on than a ketchup drop on a starched white business shirt. (Oops, I
was channeling my "inner Rather" there, sorry.)
9) Stop taking Hollywood money. It not only makes actors think they have a
right to speak on your party’s behalf, but it has the addictive power of
political heroin. Better to hold a thousand small pancake dinners at WFV
halls in "red country."
10) Lighten up, for once! America really doesn't suck as much as you seem
to think it does. I know liberals have a yearning for "utopian" (aka
"perfect") societies, but let's be real, all humans are flawed. If you
somehow find a way to see America as a great country constantly striving to
be better, you'll start moving into harmony with most Americans. A little
sunshine goes a long way.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	12 Nov 2004 10:10:53 AM

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

In article <10p88km743te85c@corp.supernews.com>,
peeance.freeance@bayofgoats.org wrote:

On 11-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

There you have it! An armed populace is less easy to push around.
That's
why the one-worlders and lefties want our guns taken away from us.
Their
job becomes harder if we're armed.

Our job to do WHAT becomes harder?

Your "job" to destroy the Republic and replace it with a "one world"
government run by the United Nations. As long as America is armed you
can't do that by force and it really pisses your kind off!

WHAT??? Who the hell wants THAT?? I am an American. Why would I want to
have
it run by the UN?

When I said "one worlder" you responded as if I was talking to you
personally. That might have been where I got it. If you don't want to be
lumped with those people, my advice would be don't answer as if you are
one of them.

You answered me by saying "Your job..." meaning you were directing it at me.
I'm a liberal, even a "lefty", though lord knows what you might mean by
that.
And who knows what a "one worlder" is and why you think it would be the UN
in charge. The way things are shaping up, the Bush Administration seems to
be "one worlders" with THEM in charge.

Where do you people get this *****? With a country full of
morons like you, why did I ever think we could beat George Bush?

I'm not the one who cannot decide whether or not he's a "one worlder."
Id watch throwing around epithets like 'moron' were I you, they might
come back and hit you in the face. Whoops! Too late.

Anyone who sees a united world under the UN flag qualifies as a moron.
Americans can't even stay united under the American flag.
.

User: "GreyCloud"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	12 Nov 2004 08:41:49 PM

wrote:

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

In article <10p88km743te85c@corp.supernews.com>,

wrote:

On 11-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

There you have it! An armed populace is less easy to push around.
That's
why the one-worlders and lefties want our guns taken away from us.
Their
job becomes harder if we're armed.

Our job to do WHAT becomes harder?

Your "job" to destroy the Republic and replace it with a "one world"
government run by the United Nations. As long as America is armed you
can't do that by force and it really pisses your kind off!

WHAT??? Who the hell wants THAT?? I am an American. Why would I want to
have
it run by the UN?

You answered me by saying "Your job..." meaning you were directing it at me.
I'm a liberal, even a "lefty", though lord knows what you might mean by
that.

And who knows what a "one worlder" is and why you think it would be the UN
in charge. The way things are shaping up, the Bush Administration seems to
be "one worlders" with THEM in charge.

Where do you people get this *****? With a country full of
morons like you, why did I ever think we could beat George Bush?

I'm not the one who cannot decide whether or not he's a "one worlder."
Id watch throwing around epithets like 'moron' were I you, they might
come back and hit you in the face. Whoops! Too late.

Anyone who sees a united world under the UN flag qualifies as a moron.
Americans can't even stay united under the American flag.

That all depends on which individual has a bad case of megalomania.
We do have the World Bank, The World Court, and the IMF. You can find
references for these on Google. The One World Government or New World
Order has, by a lot of people, as being relegated to the conspiracy
theorists. But then, when you look at the U.N. you really have to
wonder who the kooks really are. The U.N. is corrupt and just about as
useless as it can get.
--
---------------------------------
Th3 G0ld3n Yrs Sux0r
.

User: "George Graves"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	12 Nov 2004 01:57:40 PM

In article <10p9o4i25evpr64@corp.supernews.com>,

wrote:

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

In article <10p88km743te85c@corp.supernews.com>,

wrote:

On 11-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

There you have it! An armed populace is less easy to push around.
That's
why the one-worlders and lefties want our guns taken away from us.
Their
job becomes harder if we're armed.

Our job to do WHAT becomes harder?

Your "job" to destroy the Republic and replace it with a "one world"
government run by the United Nations. As long as America is armed you
can't do that by force and it really pisses your kind off!

WHAT??? Who the hell wants THAT?? I am an American. Why would I want to
have
it run by the UN?

You answered me by saying "Your job..." meaning you were directing it at me.
I'm a liberal, even a "lefty", though lord knows what you might mean by
that.

EVERYBODY knows that liberal = left winger (lefty for short) and
Conservative = right winger. If you've never heard those monikers, your
naivete is staggering.

And who knows what a "one worlder" is and why you think it would be the UN
in charge. The way things are shaping up, the Bush Administration seems to
be "one worlders" with THEM in charge.

Your paranoid hatred of the Bush administration is your problem (I
merely dislike Bush while you lefties seem to hate him), but you could
have said "I'm a lefty, but I'm not a "one worlder", or some such and I
wouldn't have included you in that

Where do you people get this *****? With a country full of
morons like you, why did I ever think we could beat George Bush?

I'm not the one who cannot decide whether or not he's a "one worlder."
Id watch throwing around epithets like 'moron' were I you, they might
come back and hit you in the face. Whoops! Too late.

Anyone who sees a united world under the UN flag qualifies as a moron.
Americans can't even stay united under the American flag.

That's a problem that I lay at the feet of the media and left-wingers
who control it.
--
George Graves
------------------
Knowledge is good.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	12 Nov 2004 05:15:05 PM

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

In article <10p9o4i25evpr64@corp.supernews.com>,
peeance.freeance@bayofgoats.org wrote:

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

In article <10p88km743te85c@corp.supernews.com>,
peeance.freeance@bayofgoats.org wrote:

On 11-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

There you have it! An armed populace is less easy to push

around.

That's
why the one-worlders and lefties want our guns taken away from

us.

Their
job becomes harder if we're armed.

Our job to do WHAT becomes harder?

Your "job" to destroy the Republic and replace it with a "one
world"
government run by the United Nations. As long as America is armed
you
can't do that by force and it really pisses your kind off!

WHAT??? Who the hell wants THAT?? I am an American. Why would I want
to
have
it run by the UN?

When I said "one worlder" you responded as if I was talking to you
personally. That might have been where I got it. If you don't want to
be
lumped with those people, my advice would be don't answer as if you
are
one of them.

You answered me by saying "Your job..." meaning you were directing it at
me.
I'm a liberal, even a "lefty", though lord knows what you might mean by
that.

EVERYBODY knows that liberal = left winger (lefty for short) and
Conservative = right winger. If you've never heard those monikers, your
naivete is staggering.

Actually, your naivete seems to be staggering. Liberals and left wingers
are not the same. Conservatives and rightwingers are not the same. Bush is
a right winger, but there is no way in hell he could be mistaken for a
Conservative. In fact, senior Republicans who are Conservatives are among
his detractors.

And who knows what a "one worlder" is and why you think it would be the
UN
in charge. The way things are shaping up, the Bush Administration seems
to
be "one worlders" with THEM in charge.

It never occured to me to say I'm not a one worlder since I'm not even sure
what it means. I don't know anyone who advocates one government for the
world if that is what you mean by it. It is such a preposterous idea that
it's hard to imagine anyone even worrying about it.

Where do you people get this *****? With a country full of
morons like you, why did I ever think we could beat George Bush?

I'm not the one who cannot decide whether or not he's a "one worlder."
Id watch throwing around epithets like 'moron' were I you, they might
come back and hit you in the face. Whoops! Too late.

Anyone who sees a united world under the UN flag qualifies as a moron.
Americans can't even stay united under the American flag.

That's a problem that I lay at the feet of the media and left-wingers
who control it.

I'm getting a headache. Maybe some other time, George.
.

User: "George Graves"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	12 Nov 2004 05:30:45 PM

In article <10pagvtrj9h2t66@corp.supernews.com>,

wrote:

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

In article <10p9o4i25evpr64@corp.supernews.com>,

wrote:

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

In article <10p88km743te85c@corp.supernews.com>,

wrote:

On 11-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

There you have it! An armed populace is less easy to push

around.

That's
why the one-worlders and lefties want our guns taken away from

us.

Their
job becomes harder if we're armed.

Our job to do WHAT becomes harder?

Your "job" to destroy the Republic and replace it with a "one
world"
government run by the United Nations. As long as America is armed
you
can't do that by force and it really pisses your kind off!

WHAT??? Who the hell wants THAT?? I am an American. Why would I want
to
have
it run by the UN?

When I said "one worlder" you responded as if I was talking to you
personally. That might have been where I got it. If you don't want to
be
lumped with those people, my advice would be don't answer as if you
are
one of them.

You answered me by saying "Your job..." meaning you were directing it at
me.
I'm a liberal, even a "lefty", though lord knows what you might mean by
that.

EVERYBODY knows that liberal = left winger (lefty for short) and
Conservative = right winger. If you've never heard those monikers, your
naivete is staggering.

And who knows what a "one worlder" is and why you think it would be the
UN
in charge. The way things are shaping up, the Bush Administration seems
to
be "one worlders" with THEM in charge.

Yet it is one of the very cornerstones of the left-wing agenda. How come
you don't know about it?

Where do you people get this *****? With a country full of
morons like you, why did I ever think we could beat George Bush?

I'm not the one who cannot decide whether or not he's a "one worlder."
Id watch throwing around epithets like 'moron' were I you, they might
come back and hit you in the face. Whoops! Too late.

Anyone who sees a united world under the UN flag qualifies as a moron.
Americans can't even stay united under the American flag.

That's a problem that I lay at the feet of the media and left-wingers
who control it.

I'm getting a headache. Maybe some other time, George.

Actually thinking about the consequences of their beliefs often does
that to liberals. It's much easier to form one's belief system based on
touchy-feely liberal emotions than it is to actually think about one's
political belief system. Let's "help the poor," let's provide healthcare
for everybody, let's clean-up the environment, usually without clue-one
about HOW to accomplish any of these nebulous goals, but they'll blindly
follow any politician who even mentions them as being something he or
she is "for." The ironic part is that politicians not only KNOW this,
they count on it.
--
George Graves
------------------
Knowledge is good.
.

User: ""
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	12 Nov 2004 07:56:02 PM

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

Actually, your naivete seems to be staggering. Liberals and left
wingers
are not the same. Conservatives and rightwingers are not the same. Bush
is
a right winger, but there is no way in hell he could be mistaken for a
Conservative. In fact, senior Republicans who are Conservatives are
among
his detractors.

And who knows what a "one worlder" is and why you think it would be
the
UN
in charge. The way things are shaping up, the Bush Administration
seems
to
be "one worlders" with THEM in charge.

It never occured to me to say I'm not a one worlder since I'm not even
sure
what it means. I don't know anyone who advocates one government for the
world if that is what you mean by it. It is such a preposterous idea
that
it's hard to imagine anyone even worrying about it.

Yet it is one of the very cornerstones of the left-wing agenda. How come
you don't know about it?

Maybe I'm not on the Liberal Agenda Mailing List. I've been a liberal my
entire voting life. I should have received at least one copy of something
the describes the cornerstone of my beliefs, don't ya think? Do they use
snail mail or do you think they would e-mail me a copy? Come to think of it,
who do I contact to get a copy? Any chance you have a copy you could send
me? Maybe there's some other stuff I should know about the Liberal Agenda..

Where do you people get this *****? With a country full of
morons like you, why did I ever think we could beat George Bush?

I'm not the one who cannot decide whether or not he's a "one
worlder."
Id watch throwing around epithets like 'moron' were I you, they
might
come back and hit you in the face. Whoops! Too late.

Anyone who sees a united world under the UN flag qualifies as a
moron.
Americans can't even stay united under the American flag.

That's a problem that I lay at the feet of the media and left-wingers
who control it.

I'm getting a headache. Maybe some other time, George.

Good to run into someone here who knows this stuff. So your telling me there
are people who would follow any politician who says he is against abortion,
for school prayer, against gay marriage and for the war in Iraq? I can see
where a politician might take advantage of that, George. Thanks for pointing
it out.
.

User: "Dennis Kemmerer"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	13 Nov 2004 11:56:24 AM

[groups trimmed]
<peeance.freeance@bayofgoats.org> wrote in message
news:10paqdmprqbba96@corp.supernews.com...

On 12-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

Actually, your naivete seems to be staggering. Liberals and left
wingers
are not the same. Conservatives and rightwingers are not the same.
Bush
is
a right winger, but there is no way in hell he could be mistaken for a
Conservative. In fact, senior Republicans who are Conservatives are
among
his detractors.

And who knows what a "one worlder" is and why you think it would be
the
UN
in charge. The way things are shaping up, the Bush Administration
seems
to
be "one worlders" with THEM in charge.

Your paranoid hatred of the Bush administration is your problem (I
merely dislike Bush while you lefties seem to hate him), but you
could
have said "I'm a lefty, but I'm not a "one worlder", or some such and
I
wouldn't have included you in that

It never occured to me to say I'm not a one worlder since I'm not even
sure
what it means. I don't know anyone who advocates one government for the
world if that is what you mean by it. It is such a preposterous idea
that
it's hard to imagine anyone even worrying about it.

Yet it is one of the very cornerstones of the left-wing agenda. How come
you don't know about it?

Maybe I'm not on the Liberal Agenda Mailing List. I've been a liberal my
entire voting life. I should have received at least one copy of something
the describes the cornerstone of my beliefs, don't ya think? Do they use
snail mail or do you think they would e-mail me a copy? Come to think of
it,
who do I contact to get a copy? Any chance you have a copy you could send
me? Maybe there's some other stuff I should know about the Liberal
Agenda..

Is that anything like the 'Gay Agenda?' :)

Where do you people get this *****? With a country full of
morons like you, why did I ever think we could beat George
Bush?

I'm not the one who cannot decide whether or not he's a "one
worlder."
Id watch throwing around epithets like 'moron' were I you, they
might
come back and hit you in the face. Whoops! Too late.

Anyone who sees a united world under the UN flag qualifies as a
moron.
Americans can't even stay united under the American flag.

That's a problem that I lay at the feet of the media and left-wingers
who control it.

I'm getting a headache. Maybe some other time, George.

Good to run into someone here who knows this stuff. So your telling me
there
are people who would follow any politician who says he is against
abortion,
for school prayer, against gay marriage and for the war in Iraq? I can see
where a politician might take advantage of that, George. Thanks for
pointing
it out.

I was chatting with a woman in the doctor's office the day after the
election. She asked me if I had voted, and I told her that I had mailed my
ballot a few weeks earlier. I didn't mention which candidates or
propositions I voted for or against, but I was lamenting the amount of time
it took to research local candidates' bios and read the pros and cons of the
eighteen local and state propositions that were on my California ballot this
year.
The woman launched into a diatribe about how she's a christian, and
political issues are _soooo_ in conflict with her beliefs because she
believes in god, and oh, did I mention that I'm a christian, and so of
course I just _had_ to vote for Bush because I'm a christian, and the other
stuff I just voted the way my church voter guide said to vote, because I'm a
christian...
.

User: "Matty"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	13 Nov 2004 09:56:49 PM

On 2004-11-14 04:56:24 +1100, "Dennis Kemmerer" <dk@suespammers.org> said:

[groups trimmed]

<peeance.freeance@bayofgoats.org> wrote in message
news:10paqdmprqbba96@corp.supernews.com...

Is that anything like the 'Gay Agenda?' :)

From what I understand, it is the same thing; apparently the right wing
think that there is a global gay conspiracy, a bit like the Nazis and
their global Jewish conspiracy theory, or the Southern Baptists and
their "mogrel theory" when it came to interracial marriages and
children.
Too bad these people haven't de-evolved themselves back to the slim of
which they crawled out of many thousands of years ago.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.

User: "Matty"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	13 Nov 2004 08:06:53 AM

On 2004-11-12 13:40:19 +1100,

said:

On 11-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

There you have it! An armed populace is less easy to push around.
That's
why the one-worlders and lefties want our guns taken away from us.
Their
job becomes harder if we're armed.

Our job to do WHAT becomes harder?

Your "job" to destroy the Republic and replace it with a "one world"
government run by the United Nations. As long as America is armed you
can't do that by force and it really pisses your kind off!

WHAT??? Who the hell wants THAT?? I am an American. Why would I want to have
it run by the UN? Where do you people get this *****? With a country full of
morons like you, why did I ever think we could beat George Bush?

Well, they're yout country people, I can't work out why George would
hold such stupid views. The UN is a insitution which host multilateral
discussions so that the world moves forward as one, and approaches
difficulties in a collective mannor rather than spliting up, and
bicking amoungst each other over which way is better than another.
What pisses the US the most is the fact that they can't get their way
100% of the time simply because they're the most powerful - the old
"we're the king of the castle, and you're the dirty rascle" complex as
displayed by 8 year olds with a chip on their sholder.
Maybe a few beltings will get the US back into line.
Matty
--
"If a nation could not prosper without the enjoyment of perfect liberty
and perfect justice, there is not in the world a nation which could
ever have prospered." - The Wealth of Nations, Book IV, Chapter IX
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this
world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or
all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of
government except all those other forms that have been tried from time
to time." - Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947
.

User: "Christopher A. Lee"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	11 Nov 2004 10:25:51 PM

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:59:08 GMT,

wrote:

On 11-Nov-2004, George Graves <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:

If every citizen owned a rifle, a simple hunting rifle, it
would be impossible to govern them without their consent.
Yes, they couldn't stand up to military operations - but
they wouldn't have to.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

There you have it! An armed populace is less easy to push around. That's
why the one-worlders and lefties want our guns taken away from us. Their
job becomes harder if we're armed.

Our job to do WHAT becomes harder? Our job to vote and expect it to be
counted fairly? Our job to provide health care to all Americans including
you? Our job to provide for our elderly? Our job to provide for the poor?

How exactly will you having a "simple hunting rifle" prevent us from trying
to help all Americans?

You deserve George Bush.

Those who didn't, dont - domestically and internationally.
.

User: "Ninure Saunders"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	11 Nov 2004 08:23:15 AM

In article <d98390c0.0411110601.65750d46@posting.google.com>,
firelock_ny@hotmail.com (Firelock) wrote:
-"Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote in message
news:<41921a52$1_2@news.unc.edu>...
-> The Second Amendment is not about hunting. It is about the ability of
-> citizens to oppose an oppressive government, such as a Kerry regime would
-> have brought. True assault rifles are somewhat useful in this role, though
-> the usefulness is somewhat over rated due to the large amount of ammunition
-> required to use these in full auto mode.
-
-If every citizen owned a rifle, a simple hunting rifle, it
-would be impossible to govern them without their consent.
-Yes, they couldn't stand up to military operations - but
-they wouldn't have to.
-
-Walt Smith
-Firelock on DALNet
You're a funny man....
Please tell us qho controls the USA's nuclear, chemical, and biological
weapons.
Please tell us what use a hunting rifle would do against such weapons.
If you really think the rulers of the USA are really unable or unwilling
to kill millions of citizens......esp. since now they could simply blame
"terrorists" you are a funny man indeed.
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
Take my polls
http://ninure.100megsfree5.com
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.

User: "Christopher A. Lee"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	11 Nov 2004 08:39:21 AM

On 11 Nov 2004 06:01:17 -0800,

(Firelock)
wrote:

"Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote in message news:<41921a52$1_2@news.unc.edu>...

The Second Amendment is not about hunting. It is about the ability of
citizens to oppose an oppressive government, such as a Kerry regime would
have brought. True assault rifles are somewhat useful in this role, though
the usefulness is somewhat over rated due to the large amount of ammunition
required to use these in full auto mode.

If every citizen owned a rifle, a simple hunting rifle, it
would be impossible to govern them without their consent.
Yes, they couldn't stand up to military operations - but
they wouldn't have to.

Like Fallujah?

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	12 Nov 2004 01:14:17 AM

Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:

The Second Amendment is not about hunting. It is about the ability of
citizens to oppose an oppressive government,

Like the Bush administration which has hundred of people rotting in
prison with no trial, no charges?

such as a Kerry regime would
have brought.

You can stop lying about Kerry.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "GreyCloud"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	12 Nov 2004 08:43:06 PM

Ray Fischer wrote:

Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:

The Second Amendment is not about hunting. It is about the ability of
citizens to oppose an oppressive government,

Like the Bush administration which has hundred of people rotting in
prison with no trial, no charges?

such as a Kerry regime would
have brought.

You can stop lying about Kerry.

Do you know Kerry personally?
If you don't, then Bush is your president, unless you have this desire
to leave the country with the rest of Hollywood celebrities that don't
think in this reality.
--
---------------------------------
Th3 G0ld3n Yrs Sux0r
.

User: "Snit"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 07:25:22 PM

"commutator" <mikesantos15@hotmail.com> wrote in post
380b9069.0411091327.4cfc2@posting.google.com on 11/9/04 2:27 PM:

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms means
guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

I'm unfamiliar with this argument...do you claim that "arms" means
swords? Clubs? I thought the amendment made it clear that the
equipment was supposed to be that appropriate for use by a militia,
I'd think that guns would be a minimum.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

Strider

The point is that the constitution lists the right to possess arms but
in no ways define them.

And to deal with this error, some will point to activist judges who have
tried to define what is meant by "arms". This opens the door to allowing
the views of activist judges on this topic - and ones on the other side have
made the claim the right only applies to states, not individuals.
Somehow those on the right then get a little bent out of shape about the use
of "activist" judges. :)

In fact at the time of draft this provision was used to allow private owners
to possess small arms as well as cannons.

And, I believe, war ships.

Nowadays gunright lobbyists have redefined it (in their own minds) to mean
guns explicitly although on paper it is just as vague as ever. Thus arms can
refer from handguns, to bebes, to assault rifles, to sniper rifles, to pretty
much any weapon.

Not any weapon... just the weapons the NRA members like to play with...
publicly. Somehow they do not like the idea of people having some weapons,
such as the ones that they *claimed* Saddam had, even though he did not.
Seems just the suspicion of having those weapons, the bad ones, is enough to
go after someone who is not even a US citizen.
So US citizens should be able to have the arms they want to call arms, but
if other countries have some arms that are not in the same category of arms
(but are clearly still arms) the US has every right to go against the UN and
attack the country.
So the US goes against the UN to attack another country for going against
the UN, all the while pretending the reason is based on the lack of right of
other *countries* to possess and bear arms!
Does the hypocrisy of the right ever occur to them. Do they ever wake up at
night chuckling that some people actually fall for their BS?

The government has tried at times to change the const so that it would refer
to something less vague and more reasonable but lobbyists always shoot that
down. The ammendment is outdated and needs rewriting but that'll never happen
as long as lobbyists fight any change that has any measure to do with said
ammendment. The wording of the ammendment leaves room for exploitation which
may be observed as 'guns' are remodified and continually improved (i.e. why do
you need an assualt rifle, really? Under what law would personal railguns be
regulated? etc.)

The second is hopelessly outdated and irrelevant in today's world. The
question is no longer *if* arms should be limited, but where that limit
should be. All but the most extreme whackos agree with that - though some
pretend not to by accepting silly definitions of "arms" to fit their own
view of what the limit should be.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
.

User: "JEDIDIAH"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	10 Nov 2004 12:48:45 AM

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.atheism.]
On 2004-11-09, commutator <mikesantos15@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote in message news:<4190e8c2$2_1@news.unc.edu>...

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

Strider

The point is that the constitution lists the right to possess arms but
in no ways define them. In fact at the time of draft this provision
was used to allow private owners to possess small arms as well as
cannons. Nowadays gunright lobbyists have redefined it (in their own
minds) to mean guns explicitly although on paper it is just as vague
as ever. Thus arms can refer from handguns, to bebes, to assault
rifles, to sniper rifles, to pretty much any weapon. The government

What's so vague about "militia" or "infantry" weapons. Those are very
well defined currently. All you need do is to visit your local Army or Marine
Corps recruiter. You could also use other national militias (Switzerland,
Israel) as a frame of reference.
To claim that there is no context to work from based on the language
of the 2nd amendment is just assinine.
[deletia]
--
AV is a bandaid over a bulletwound.
|||
Linux posesses no such bulletwounds. / | \

.

User: "Strider"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	10 Nov 2004 07:45:45 AM

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in message
news:slrncp3ee2.qd9.jedi@nomad.mishnet...

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.atheism.]
On 2004-11-09, commutator <mikesantos15@hotmail.com> wrote:

"Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote in message

news:<4190e8c2$2_1@news.unc.edu>...

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that

arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it

to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

Strider

What's so vague about "militia" or "infantry" weapons. Those are very
well defined currently. All you need do is to visit your local Army or

Marine

Corps recruiter. You could also use other national militias (Switzerland,
Israel) as a frame of reference.

I agree. I want my M249 SAW.
Strider

To claim that there is no context to work from based on the language
of the 2nd amendment is just assinine.

[deletia]

--
AV is a bandaid over a bulletwound.
|||
Linux posesses no such bulletwounds. / | \

User: "Snit"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	10 Nov 2004 12:56:57 AM

"JEDIDIAH" <jedi@nomad.mishnet> wrote in post
slrncp3ee2.qd9.jedi@nomad.mishnet on 11/9/04 11:48 PM:

What's so vague about "militia" or "infantry" weapons. Those are very
well defined currently. All you need do is to visit your local Army or Marine
Corps recruiter. You could also use other national militias (Switzerland,
Israel) as a frame of reference.

To claim that there is no context to work from based on the language
of the 2nd amendment is just assinine.

What does that have to do with the "arms" talked about in the second
amendment?
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
.

User: "maff"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 03:02:46 PM

"Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote in message news:<4190e8c2$2_1@news.unc.edu>...

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

That's what Jefferson Davis also thought except he wasn't a liberal.

Strider

User: "Strider"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 03:08:55 PM

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0411091302.66d70342@posting.google.com...

"Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote in message

news:<4190e8c2$2_1@news.unc.edu>...

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that

arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

That's what Jefferson Davis also thought except he wasn't a liberal.

At least he was correct about one thing.
Strider

Strider

User: "maff"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	10 Nov 2004 03:32:17 AM

"Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote in message news:<41913212$1_1@news.unc.edu>...

"maff" <maff91@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:18510aff.0411091302.66d70342@posting.google.com...

"Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote in message

news:<4190e8c2$2_1@news.unc.edu>...

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that

arms
means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

That's what Jefferson Davis also thought except he wasn't a liberal.

At least he was correct about one thing.

Were Confederates and Christian fundamentalists ever right? If you
want to sacrifice your life and money for the Confederacy and
Christian fundamentalism then by all means go for it.

Strider

User: "Christopher A. Lee"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 10:22:46 AM

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:56:06 -0500, "Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote:

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

Projects the Limabaugh-wannabe.

Strider

User: "Strider"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 10:37:58 AM

"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mmr1p05ncjofasr50g1q91ru9qna0ap1or@4ax.com...

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:56:06 -0500, "Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote:

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

Projects the Limabaugh-wannabe.

I've never listened to a Rush show. Apparently you have.
Again, your disconnection from reality is telling in that you denegrate
anyone right of Mao. Frankly, it is the American Liberal that is in the
minority, losing politcal ground, and shall soon meet the fate of the Dodo
bird, a fitting end.
Strider

Strider

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 12:16:27 PM

Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

Actually there have been a coupole of studies that show the opposite.
That disconnection with reality is a failing of the conservative.
That's why they believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
That's why they believe that Bush is doing something about terrorism.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.

User: "Strider"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 12:28:12 PM

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cmr1hq$ck1$1@bolt.sonic.net...

Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

You are a credit to your fellow liberal.
Liberal spin ought to be tapped as an alternative energy source.
Strider

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net

User: "Ninure Saunders"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 01:09:24 PM

In article <41910c68$1_1@news.unc.edu>, "Strider" <strider@usit.net> wrote:
-"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
-news:cmr1hq$ck1$1@bolt.sonic.net...
-> Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:
-> >
-> >"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
-> >news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...
-> >> Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message
-> >news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...
-> >> > It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms
-> >means
-> >> > guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.
-> >>
-> >> I'm unfamiliar with this argument...do you claim that "arms" means
-> >> swords? Clubs? I thought the amendment made it clear that the
-> >> equipment was supposed to be that appropriate for use by a militia,
-> >> I'd think that guns would be a minimum.
-> >>
-> >> Walt Smith
-> >> Firelock on DALNet
-> >
-> >Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.
->
-> Actually there have been a coupole of studies that show the opposite.
-> That disconnection with reality is a failing of the conservative.
-> That's why they believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
-> That's why they believe that Bush is doing something about terrorism.
-
-You are a credit to your fellow liberal.
-
-Liberal spin ought to be tapped as an alternative energy source.
-
-Strider
And being unable to refute anything said by a Liberal with anything other
than "Ad Hominem" attacks seems to be a gentic trait with those who
support Bush.
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13
"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really don't
care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
Take my polls
http://ninure.100megsfree5.com
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.

User: "Strider"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 01:23:11 PM

"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0911041124490001@h-68-164-12-175.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...

In article <41910c68$1_1@news.unc.edu>, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>

wrote:

-"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
-news:cmr1hq$ck1$1@bolt.sonic.net...
-> Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:
-> >
-> >"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message
-> >news:d98390c0.0411090720.3b07035c@posting.google.com...
-> >> Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message
-> >news:<BDB1B67D.F58B%SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>...
-> >> > It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that

arms

-> >means
-> >> > guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it

to.

-> >>
-> >> I'm unfamiliar with this argument...do you claim that "arms" means
-> >> swords? Clubs? I thought the amendment made it clear that the
-> >> equipment was supposed to be that appropriate for use by a militia,
-> >> I'd think that guns would be a minimum.
-> >>
-> >> Walt Smith
-> >> Firelock on DALNet
-> >
-> >Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.
->
-> Actually there have been a coupole of studies that show the opposite.
-> That disconnection with reality is a failing of the conservative.
-> That's why they believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
-> That's why they believe that Bush is doing something about terrorism.
-
-You are a credit to your fellow liberal.
-
-Liberal spin ought to be tapped as an alternative energy source.
-
-Strider

And being unable to refute anything said by a Liberal with anything other
than "Ad Hominem" attacks seems to be a gentic trait with those who
support Bush.

Liberal refute themselves.
Strider

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our
number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
~ George Bush Jr. 2001-09-13

"I don't know where he (bin Laden) is. I have no idea and I really don't
care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
~ George Bush Jr. 2002-03-13

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian

The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

Take my polls
http://ninure.100megsfree5.com

My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk

My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org

The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org

To send e-mail, remove nohate from address

User: "JEDIDIAH"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	10 Nov 2004 12:39:10 AM

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.atheism.]
On 2004-11-09, Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:

"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk> wrote in
message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-0911041124490001@h-68-164-12-175.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net...

In article <41910c68$1_1@news.unc.edu>, "Strider" <strider@usit.net>

wrote:

[deletia]

-> >Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.
->
-> Actually there have been a coupole of studies that show the opposite.
-> That disconnection with reality is a failing of the conservative.
-> That's why they believe that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.
-> That's why they believe that Bush is doing something about terrorism.
-
-You are a credit to your fellow liberal.
-
-Liberal spin ought to be tapped as an alternative energy source.
-
-Strider

And being unable to refute anything said by a Liberal with anything other
than "Ad Hominem" attacks seems to be a gentic trait with those who
support Bush.

Liberal refute themselves.

Strider

The Windows Trolls over in Comp.OS.Linux.Advocacy give better responses.
[deletia]
--
AV is a bandaid over a bulletwound.
|||
Linux posesses no such bulletwounds. / | \

.

User: "Ray Fischer"
Title: Re: 10 Helpful Hints for the Democratic Party	09 Nov 2004 10:53:46 PM

Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message

Strider <strider@usit.net> wrote:

"Firelock" <firelock_ny@hotmail.com> wrote in message

Snit <SNIT@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in message

It is fun watching the rabid gun rights group try to insist that arms

means

guns... not 'cause they can support it, but because they want it to.

Disconnection from reality is but one failing of a Liberal.

You are a credit to your fellow liberal.

And there's a classic example: The right-wing moron cannot come up
with anything intelligent to write and resorts to the idiotic
"liberal" nonsense.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.