10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Michelle Malkin"
Date: 24 Dec 2006 04:36:44 PM
Object: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism
10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris
December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times
SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only 37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.
Atheists are often imagined to be intolerant, immoral, depressed, blind to
the beauty of nature and dogmatically closed to evidence of the
supernatural.
Even John Locke, one of the great patriarchs of the Enlightenment,
believed that atheism was "not at all to be tolerated" because, he said,
"promises, covenants and oaths, which are the bonds of human societies, can
have no hold upon an atheist."
That was more than 300 years ago. But in the United States today, little
seems to have changed. A remarkable 87% of the population claims "never to
doubt" the existence of God; fewer than 10% identify themselves as
atheists - and their reputation appears to be deteriorating.
Given that we know that atheists are often among the most intelligent and
scientifically literate people in any society, it seems important to deflate
the myths that prevent them from playing a larger role in our national
discourse.
1) Atheists believe that life is meaningless.
On the contrary, religious people often worry that life is meaningless and
imagine that it can only be redeemed by the promise of eternal happiness
beyond the grave. Atheists tend to be quite sure that life is precious. Life
is imbued with meaning by being really and fully lived. Our relationships
with those we love are meaningful now; they need not last forever to be made
so. Atheists tend to find this fear of meaninglessness . well . meaningless.
2) Atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in human history.
People of faith often claim that the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol
Pot were the inevitable product of unbelief. The problem with fascism and
communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the
problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are dogmatic
to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are
indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the gulag
and the killing fields were not examples of what happens when human beings
reject religious dogma; they are examples of political, racial and
nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society in human history that ever
suffered because its people became too reasonable.
3) Atheism is dogmatic.
Jews, Christians and Muslims claim that their scriptures are so prescient
of humanity's needs that they could only have been written under the
direction of an omniscient deity. An atheist is simply a person who has
considered this claim, read the books and found the claim to be ridiculous.
One doesn't have to take anything on faith, or be otherwise dogmatic, to
reject unjustified religious beliefs. As the historian Stephen Henry Roberts
(1901-71) once said: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in
one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
4) Atheists think everything in the universe arose by chance.
No one knows why the universe came into being. In fact, it is not entirely
clear that we can coherently speak about the "beginning" or "creation" of
the universe at all, as these ideas invoke the concept of time, and here we
are talking about the origin of space-time itself.
The notion that atheists believe that everything was created by chance is
also regularly thrown up as a criticism of Darwinian evolution. As Richard
Dawkins explains in his marvelous book, "The God Delusion," this represents
an utter misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. Although we don't know
precisely how the Earth's early chemistry begat biology, we know that the
diversity and complexity we see in the living world is not a product of mere
chance. Evolution is a combination of chance mutation and natural selection.
Darwin arrived at the phrase "natural selection" by analogy to the
"artificial selection" performed by breeders of livestock. In both cases,
selection exerts a highly non-random effect on the development of any
species.
5) Atheism has no connection to science.
Although it is possible to be a scientist and still believe in God - as
some scientists seem to manage it - there is no question that an engagement
with scientific thinking tends to erode, rather than support, religious
faith. Taking the U.S. population as an example: Most polls show that about
90% of the general public believes in a personal God; yet 93% of the members
of the National Academy of Sciences do not. This suggests that there are few
modes of thinking less congenial to religious faith than science is.
6) Atheists are arrogant.
When scientists don't know something - like why the universe came into
being or how the first self-replicating molecules formed - they admit it.
Pretending to know things one doesn't know is a profound liability in
science. And yet it is the life-blood of faith-based religion. One of the
monumental ironies of religious discourse can be found in the frequency with
which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while claiming
to know facts about cosmology, chemistry and biology that no scientist
knows. When considering questions about the nature of the cosmos and our
place within it, atheists tend to draw their opinions from science. This isn't
arrogance; it is intellectual honesty.
7) Atheists are closed to spiritual experience.
There is nothing that prevents an atheist from experiencing love, ecstasy,
rapture and awe; atheists can value these experiences and seek them
regularly. What atheists don't tend to do is make unjustified (and
unjustifiable) claims about the nature of reality on the basis of such
experiences. There is no question that some Christians have transformed
their lives for the better by reading the Bible and praying to Jesus. What
does this prove? It proves that certain disciplines of attention and codes
of conduct can have a profound effect upon the human mind. Do the positive
experiences of Christians suggest that Jesus is the sole savior of humanity?
Not even remotely - because Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and even atheists
regularly have similar experiences.
There is, in fact, not a Christian on this Earth who can be certain that
Jesus even wore a beard, much less that he was born of a virgin or rose from
the dead. These are just not the sort of claims that spiritual experience
can authenticate.
8) Atheists believe that there is nothing beyond human life and human
understanding.
Atheists are free to admit the limits of human understanding in a way that
religious people are not. It is obvious that we do not fully understand the
universe; but it is even more obvious that neither the Bible nor the Koran
reflects our best understanding of it. We do not know whether there is
complex life elsewhere in the cosmos, but there might be. If there is, such
beings could have developed an understanding of nature's laws that vastly
exceeds our own. Atheists can freely entertain such possibilities. They also
can admit that if brilliant extraterrestrials exist, the contents of the
Bible and the Koran will be even less impressive to them than they are to
human atheists.
From the atheist point of view, the world's religions utterly trivialize
the real beauty and immensity of the universe. One doesn't have to accept
anything on insufficient evidence to make such an observation.
9) Atheists ignore the fact that religion is extremely beneficial to
society.
Those who emphasize the good effects of religion never seem to realize
that such effects fail to demonstrate the truth of any religious doctrine.
This is why we have terms such as "wishful thinking" and "self-deception."
There is a profound distinction between a consoling delusion and the truth.
In any case, the good effects of religion can surely be disputed. In most
cases, it seems that religion gives people bad reasons to behave well, when
good reasons are actually available. Ask yourself, which is more moral,
helping the poor out of concern for their suffering, or doing so because you
think the creator of the universe wants you to do it, will reward you for
doing it or will punish you for not doing it?
10) Atheism provides no basis for morality.
If a person doesn't already understand that cruelty is wrong, he won't
discover this by reading the Bible or the Koran - as these books are
bursting with celebrations of cruelty, both human and divine. We do not get
our morality from religion. We decide what is good in our good books by
recourse to moral intuitions that are (at some level) hard-wired in us and
that have been refined by thousands of years of thinking about the causes
and possibilities of human happiness.
We have made considerable moral progress over the years, and we didn't
make this progress by reading the Bible or the Koran more closely. Both
books condone the practice of slavery - and yet every civilized human being
now recognizes that slavery is an abomination. Whatever is good in
scripture - like the golden rule - can be valued for its ethical wisdom
without our believing that it was handed down to us by the creator of the
universe.
Copyright 2006 Sam Harris
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
.

User: "Greywolf"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 24 Dec 2006 05:00:45 PM
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9_2dnSQIc-5nnRLYnZ2dnUVZ_tGsnZ2d@comcast.com...

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only
37% of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for
president.

Atheists are often imagined to be intolerant, immoral, depressed, blind
to the beauty of nature and dogmatically closed to evidence of the
supernatural.

Even John Locke, one of the great patriarchs of the Enlightenment,
believed that atheism was "not at all to be tolerated" because, he said,
"promises, covenants and oaths, which are the bonds of human societies,
can have no hold upon an atheist."

That was more than 300 years ago. But in the United States today, little
seems to have changed. A remarkable 87% of the population claims "never to
doubt" the existence of God; fewer than 10% identify themselves as
atheists - and their reputation appears to be deteriorating.

Given that we know that atheists are often among the most intelligent and
scientifically literate people in any society, it seems important to
deflate the myths that prevent them from playing a larger role in our
national discourse.

1) Atheists believe that life is meaningless.

On the contrary, religious people often worry that life is meaningless
and imagine that it can only be redeemed by the promise of eternal
happiness beyond the grave. Atheists tend to be quite sure that life is
precious. Life is imbued with meaning by being really and fully lived. Our
relationships with those we love are meaningful now; they need not last
forever to be made so. Atheists tend to find this fear of meaninglessness
. well . meaningless.

2) Atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in human history.

People of faith often claim that the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and
Pol Pot were the inevitable product of unbelief. The problem with fascism
and communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the
problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are
dogmatic to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are
indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the
gulag and the killing fields were not examples of what happens when human
beings reject religious dogma; they are examples of political, racial and
nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society in human history that
ever suffered because its people became too reasonable.

3) Atheism is dogmatic.

Jews, Christians and Muslims claim that their scriptures are so prescient
of humanity's needs that they could only have been written under the
direction of an omniscient deity. An atheist is simply a person who has
considered this claim, read the books and found the claim to be
ridiculous. One doesn't have to take anything on faith, or be otherwise
dogmatic, to reject unjustified religious beliefs. As the historian
Stephen Henry Roberts (1901-71) once said: "I contend that we are both
atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand
why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I
dismiss yours."

4) Atheists think everything in the universe arose by chance.

No one knows why the universe came into being. In fact, it is not
entirely clear that we can coherently speak about the "beginning" or
"creation" of the universe at all, as these ideas invoke the concept of
time, and here we are talking about the origin of space-time itself.

The notion that atheists believe that everything was created by chance is
also regularly thrown up as a criticism of Darwinian evolution. As Richard
Dawkins explains in his marvelous book, "The God Delusion," this
represents an utter misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. Although we
don't know precisely how the Earth's early chemistry begat biology, we
know that the diversity and complexity we see in the living world is not a
product of mere chance. Evolution is a combination of chance mutation and
natural selection. Darwin arrived at the phrase "natural selection" by
analogy to the "artificial selection" performed by breeders of livestock.
In both cases, selection exerts a highly non-random effect on the
development of any species.

5) Atheism has no connection to science.

Although it is possible to be a scientist and still believe in God - as
some scientists seem to manage it - there is no question that an
engagement with scientific thinking tends to erode, rather than support,
religious faith. Taking the U.S. population as an example: Most polls show
that about 90% of the general public believes in a personal God; yet 93%
of the members of the National Academy of Sciences do not. This suggests
that there are few modes of thinking less congenial to religious faith
than science is.

6) Atheists are arrogant.

When scientists don't know something - like why the universe came into
being or how the first self-replicating molecules formed - they admit it.
Pretending to know things one doesn't know is a profound liability in
science. And yet it is the life-blood of faith-based religion. One of the
monumental ironies of religious discourse can be found in the frequency
with which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while
claiming to know facts about cosmology, chemistry and biology that no
scientist knows. When considering questions about the nature of the cosmos
and our place within it, atheists tend to draw their opinions from
science. This isn't arrogance; it is intellectual honesty.

7) Atheists are closed to spiritual experience.

There is nothing that prevents an atheist from experiencing love,
ecstasy, rapture and awe; atheists can value these experiences and seek
them regularly. What atheists don't tend to do is make unjustified (and
unjustifiable) claims about the nature of reality on the basis of such
experiences. There is no question that some Christians have transformed
their lives for the better by reading the Bible and praying to Jesus. What
does this prove? It proves that certain disciplines of attention and codes
of conduct can have a profound effect upon the human mind. Do the positive
experiences of Christians suggest that Jesus is the sole savior of
humanity? Not even remotely - because Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and even
atheists regularly have similar experiences.

There is, in fact, not a Christian on this Earth who can be certain that
Jesus even wore a beard, much less that he was born of a virgin or rose
from the dead. These are just not the sort of claims that spiritual
experience can authenticate.

8) Atheists believe that there is nothing beyond human life and human
understanding.

Atheists are free to admit the limits of human understanding in a way
that religious people are not. It is obvious that we do not fully
understand the universe; but it is even more obvious that neither the
Bible nor the Koran reflects our best understanding of it. We do not know
whether there is complex life elsewhere in the cosmos, but there might be.
If there is, such beings could have developed an understanding of nature's
laws that vastly exceeds our own. Atheists can freely entertain such
possibilities. They also can admit that if brilliant extraterrestrials
exist, the contents of the Bible and the Koran will be even less
impressive to them than they are to human atheists.

From the atheist point of view, the world's religions utterly trivialize
the real beauty and immensity of the universe. One doesn't have to accept
anything on insufficient evidence to make such an observation.

9) Atheists ignore the fact that religion is extremely beneficial to
society.

Those who emphasize the good effects of religion never seem to realize
that such effects fail to demonstrate the truth of any religious doctrine.
This is why we have terms such as "wishful thinking" and "self-deception."
There is a profound distinction between a consoling delusion and the
truth.

In any case, the good effects of religion can surely be disputed. In most
cases, it seems that religion gives people bad reasons to behave well,
when good reasons are actually available. Ask yourself, which is more
moral, helping the poor out of concern for their suffering, or doing so
because you think the creator of the universe wants you to do it, will
reward you for doing it or will punish you for not doing it?

10) Atheism provides no basis for morality.

If a person doesn't already understand that cruelty is wrong, he won't
discover this by reading the Bible or the Koran - as these books are
bursting with celebrations of cruelty, both human and divine. We do not
get our morality from religion. We decide what is good in our good books
by recourse to moral intuitions that are (at some level) hard-wired in us
and that have been refined by thousands of years of thinking about the
causes and possibilities of human happiness.

We have made considerable moral progress over the years, and we didn't
make this progress by reading the Bible or the Koran more closely. Both
books condone the practice of slavery - and yet every civilized human
being now recognizes that slavery is an abomination. Whatever is good in
scripture - like the golden rule - can be valued for its ethical wisdom
without our believing that it was handed down to us by the creator of the
universe.

Copyright 2006 Sam Harris

--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^


A superb post.
Greywolf
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 25 Dec 2006 01:06:09 AM
In article <9_2dnSQIc-5nnRLYnZ2dnUVZ_tGsnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only 37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.

Atheists are often imagined to be intolerant, immoral, depressed, blind to
the beauty of nature and dogmatically closed to evidence of the
supernatural.

Even John Locke, one of the great patriarchs of the Enlightenment,
believed that atheism was "not at all to be tolerated" because, he said,
"promises, covenants and oaths, which are the bonds of human societies, can
have no hold upon an atheist."

That was more than 300 years ago. But in the United States today, little
seems to have changed. A remarkable 87% of the population claims "never to
doubt" the existence of God; fewer than 10% identify themselves as
atheists - and their reputation appears to be deteriorating.

Given that we know that atheists are often among the most intelligent and
scientifically literate people in any society, it seems important to deflate
the myths that prevent them from playing a larger role in our national
discourse.

1) Atheists believe that life is meaningless.

On the contrary, religious people often worry that life is meaningless and
imagine that it can only be redeemed by the promise of eternal happiness
beyond the grave. Atheists tend to be quite sure that life is precious. Life
is imbued with meaning by being really and fully lived. Our relationships
with those we love are meaningful now; they need not last forever to be made
so. Atheists tend to find this fear of meaninglessness . well . meaningless.

2) Atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in human history.

People of faith often claim that the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol
Pot were the inevitable product of unbelief. The problem with fascism and
communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the
problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are dogmatic
to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are
indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the gulag
and the killing fields were not examples of what happens when human beings
reject religious dogma; they are examples of political, racial and
nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society in human history that ever
suffered because its people became too reasonable.

3) Atheism is dogmatic.

Jews, Christians and Muslims claim that their scriptures are so prescient
of humanity's needs that they could only have been written under the
direction of an omniscient deity. An atheist is simply a person who has
considered this claim, read the books and found the claim to be ridiculous.
One doesn't have to take anything on faith, or be otherwise dogmatic, to
reject unjustified religious beliefs. As the historian Stephen Henry Roberts
(1901-71) once said: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in
one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

4) Atheists think everything in the universe arose by chance.

No one knows why the universe came into being. In fact, it is not entirely
clear that we can coherently speak about the "beginning" or "creation" of
the universe at all, as these ideas invoke the concept of time, and here we
are talking about the origin of space-time itself.

The notion that atheists believe that everything was created by chance is
also regularly thrown up as a criticism of Darwinian evolution. As Richard
Dawkins explains in his marvelous book, "The God Delusion," this represents
an utter misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. Although we don't know
precisely how the Earth's early chemistry begat biology, we know that the
diversity and complexity we see in the living world is not a product of mere
chance. Evolution is a combination of chance mutation and natural selection.
Darwin arrived at the phrase "natural selection" by analogy to the
"artificial selection" performed by breeders of livestock. In both cases,
selection exerts a highly non-random effect on the development of any
species.

5) Atheism has no connection to science.

Although it is possible to be a scientist and still believe in God - as
some scientists seem to manage it - there is no question that an engagement
with scientific thinking tends to erode, rather than support, religious
faith. Taking the U.S. population as an example: Most polls show that about
90% of the general public believes in a personal God; yet 93% of the members
of the National Academy of Sciences do not. This suggests that there are few
modes of thinking less congenial to religious faith than science is.

6) Atheists are arrogant.

When scientists don't know something - like why the universe came into
being or how the first self-replicating molecules formed - they admit it.
Pretending to know things one doesn't know is a profound liability in
science. And yet it is the life-blood of faith-based religion. One of the
monumental ironies of religious discourse can be found in the frequency with
which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while claiming
to know facts about cosmology, chemistry and biology that no scientist
knows. When considering questions about the nature of the cosmos and our
place within it, atheists tend to draw their opinions from science. This
isn't
arrogance; it is intellectual honesty.

7) Atheists are closed to spiritual experience.

There is nothing that prevents an atheist from experiencing love, ecstasy,
rapture and awe; atheists can value these experiences and seek them
regularly. What atheists don't tend to do is make unjustified (and
unjustifiable) claims about the nature of reality on the basis of such
experiences. There is no question that some Christians have transformed
their lives for the better by reading the Bible and praying to Jesus. What
does this prove? It proves that certain disciplines of attention and codes
of conduct can have a profound effect upon the human mind. Do the positive
experiences of Christians suggest that Jesus is the sole savior of humanity?
Not even remotely - because Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and even atheists
regularly have similar experiences.

There is, in fact, not a Christian on this Earth who can be certain that
Jesus even wore a beard, much less that he was born of a virgin or rose from
the dead. These are just not the sort of claims that spiritual experience
can authenticate.

8) Atheists believe that there is nothing beyond human life and human
understanding.

Atheists are free to admit the limits of human understanding in a way that
religious people are not. It is obvious that we do not fully understand the
universe; but it is even more obvious that neither the Bible nor the Koran
reflects our best understanding of it. We do not know whether there is
complex life elsewhere in the cosmos, but there might be. If there is, such
beings could have developed an understanding of nature's laws that vastly
exceeds our own. Atheists can freely entertain such possibilities. They also
can admit that if brilliant extraterrestrials exist, the contents of the
Bible and the Koran will be even less impressive to them than they are to
human atheists.

From the atheist point of view, the world's religions utterly trivialize
the real beauty and immensity of the universe. One doesn't have to accept
anything on insufficient evidence to make such an observation.

9) Atheists ignore the fact that religion is extremely beneficial to
society.

Those who emphasize the good effects of religion never seem to realize
that such effects fail to demonstrate the truth of any religious doctrine.
This is why we have terms such as "wishful thinking" and "self-deception."
There is a profound distinction between a consoling delusion and the truth.

In any case, the good effects of religion can surely be disputed. In most
cases, it seems that religion gives people bad reasons to behave well, when
good reasons are actually available. Ask yourself, which is more moral,
helping the poor out of concern for their suffering, or doing so because you
think the creator of the universe wants you to do it, will reward you for
doing it or will punish you for not doing it?

10) Atheism provides no basis for morality.

If a person doesn't already understand that cruelty is wrong, he won't
discover this by reading the Bible or the Koran - as these books are
bursting with celebrations of cruelty, both human and divine. We do not get
our morality from religion. We decide what is good in our good books by
recourse to moral intuitions that are (at some level) hard-wired in us and
that have been refined by thousands of years of thinking about the causes
and possibilities of human happiness.

We have made considerable moral progress over the years, and we didn't
make this progress by reading the Bible or the Koran more closely. Both
books condone the practice of slavery - and yet every civilized human being
now recognizes that slavery is an abomination. Whatever is good in
scripture - like the golden rule - can be valued for its ethical wisdom
without our believing that it was handed down to us by the creator of the
universe.

Copyright 2006 Sam Harris

You snooze, you lose. I was going to post this one myself, but thanks
for posting it anyway, Mickey. Another great article by Harris.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.

User: "Parsifal"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 25 Dec 2006 02:26:38 AM
Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only 37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.

I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...
.
User: "Michelle Malkin"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 25 Dec 2006 02:33:22 AM
"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167035198.399107.246180@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only
37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

Guess again. The backlash has started and will continue
to lead us out of the current mess. This isn't the first
the religious fanatics have led us one step back. It's now
time for the two steps forward. Of course, it will be more
difficult to clean up the mess this time due to phony
Christian Bush and his Saudi masters.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 25 Dec 2006 11:56:00 PM
In article <0padndjP86pSERLYnZ2dnUVZ_sKunZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167035198.399107.246180@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only
37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

Guess again. The backlash has started and will continue
to lead us out of the current mess. This isn't the first
the religious fanatics have led us one step back. It's now
time for the two steps forward. Of course, it will be more
difficult to clean up the mess this time due to phony
Christian Bush and his Saudi masters.

The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more years
of Bush at most. Unless he gets kicked out sooner, that is..
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 31 Dec 2006 09:31:50 PM
On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:56:00 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <0padndjP86pSERLYnZ2dnUVZ_sKunZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167035198.399107.246180@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only
37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

Guess again. The backlash has started and will continue
to lead us out of the current mess. This isn't the first
the religious fanatics have led us one step back. It's now
time for the two steps forward. Of course, it will be more
difficult to clean up the mess this time due to phony
Christian Bush and his Saudi masters.


The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more years
of Bush at most.

Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'

Unless he gets kicked out sooner, that is..

--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 01 Jan 2007 12:00:04 AM
In article <v30hp25nh0m90nf0r5fni7d38so5kmj6jj@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:56:00 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <0padndjP86pSERLYnZ2dnUVZ_sKunZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167035198.399107.246180@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now
a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only
37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for
president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

Guess again. The backlash has started and will continue
to lead us out of the current mess. This isn't the first
the religious fanatics have led us one step back. It's now
time for the two steps forward. Of course, it will be more
difficult to clean up the mess this time due to phony
Christian Bush and his Saudi masters.


The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'

I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would be a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 03 Jan 2007 10:57:26 AM
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 22:00:04 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <v30hp25nh0m90nf0r5fni7d38so5kmj6jj@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:56:00 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <0padndjP86pSERLYnZ2dnUVZ_sKunZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167035198.399107.246180@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now
a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only
37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for
president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

Guess again. The backlash has started and will continue
to lead us out of the current mess. This isn't the first
the religious fanatics have led us one step back. It's now
time for the two steps forward. Of course, it will be more
difficult to clean up the mess this time due to phony
Christian Bush and his Saudi masters.


The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'


I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would be a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.

There's lots of lead to greet them with.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 04 Jan 2007 12:52:54 AM
In article <s2onp2dfrnofbegjtujrqdkth8846vcmn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 22:00:04 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <v30hp25nh0m90nf0r5fni7d38so5kmj6jj@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:56:00 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <0padndjP86pSERLYnZ2dnUVZ_sKunZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167035198.399107.246180@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such
an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is
now
a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being
black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll,
only
37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for
president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

Guess again. The backlash has started and will continue
to lead us out of the current mess. This isn't the first
the religious fanatics have led us one step back. It's now
time for the two steps forward. Of course, it will be more
difficult to clean up the mess this time due to phony
Christian Bush and his Saudi masters.


The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'


I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would be a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.


There's lots of lead to greet them with.

From recent polls and articles, it would seem that many in the military
would have joined the mob..
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 06 Jan 2007 07:29:28 PM
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:52:54 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <s2onp2dfrnofbegjtujrqdkth8846vcmn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 22:00:04 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <v30hp25nh0m90nf0r5fni7d38so5kmj6jj@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:56:00 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <0padndjP86pSERLYnZ2dnUVZ_sKunZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167035198.399107.246180@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such
an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is
now
a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being
black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll,
only
37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for
president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

Guess again. The backlash has started and will continue
to lead us out of the current mess. This isn't the first
the religious fanatics have led us one step back. It's now
time for the two steps forward. Of course, it will be more
difficult to clean up the mess this time due to phony
Christian Bush and his Saudi masters.


The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'


I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would be a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.


There's lots of lead to greet them with.


From recent polls and articles, it would seem that many in the military
would have joined the mob..

Why do you think they're in the mid-east?
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 07 Jan 2007 12:58:51 AM
In article <p6j0q29fm7b51me22dk32r3ngbos7ed3r7@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:52:54 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <s2onp2dfrnofbegjtujrqdkth8846vcmn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 22:00:04 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <v30hp25nh0m90nf0r5fni7d38so5kmj6jj@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:56:00 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <0padndjP86pSERLYnZ2dnUVZ_sKunZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

"Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167035198.399107.246180@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired
such
an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist
is
now
a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being
black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek
poll,
only
37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for
president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely
into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

Guess again. The backlash has started and will continue
to lead us out of the current mess. This isn't the first
the religious fanatics have led us one step back. It's now
time for the two steps forward. Of course, it will be more
difficult to clean up the mess this time due to phony
Christian Bush and his Saudi masters.


The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more
years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'


I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would be a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.


There's lots of lead to greet them with.


From recent polls and articles, it would seem that many in the military
would have joined the mob..


Why do you think they're in the mid-east?

Interesting. Just like the Romans liked to keep their armies away from
Rome so their generals wouldn't be tempted to seize power. So who will
be the first to cross our Rubicon?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 11 Jan 2007 05:06:45 PM
On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:58:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <p6j0q29fm7b51me22dk32r3ngbos7ed3r7@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:52:54 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <s2onp2dfrnofbegjtujrqdkth8846vcmn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

[]

The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more
years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'


I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would be a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.


There's lots of lead to greet them with.


From recent polls and articles, it would seem that many in the military
would have joined the mob..


Why do you think they're in the mid-east?


Interesting. Just like the Romans liked to keep their armies away from
Rome so their generals wouldn't be tempted to seize power. So who will
be the first to cross our Rubicon?

The Fifth Columnists.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 12 Jan 2007 12:38:21 AM
In article <smgdq21ok6r67oot62qf6das5qf5urm8es@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:58:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <p6j0q29fm7b51me22dk32r3ngbos7ed3r7@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:52:54 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <s2onp2dfrnofbegjtujrqdkth8846vcmn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:


[]

The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more
years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'


I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would be
a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.


There's lots of lead to greet them with.


From recent polls and articles, it would seem that many in the military
would have joined the mob..


Why do you think they're in the mid-east?


Interesting. Just like the Romans liked to keep their armies away from
Rome so their generals wouldn't be tempted to seize power. So who will
be the first to cross our Rubicon?


The Fifth Columnists.

It won't be the MSM news columnists. They've been bought and sold.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 12 Jan 2007 03:24:45 PM
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:38:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <smgdq21ok6r67oot62qf6das5qf5urm8es@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:58:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <p6j0q29fm7b51me22dk32r3ngbos7ed3r7@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:52:54 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <s2onp2dfrnofbegjtujrqdkth8846vcmn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:


[]

The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two more
years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'


I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would be
a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.


There's lots of lead to greet them with.


From recent polls and articles, it would seem that many in the military
would have joined the mob..


Why do you think they're in the mid-east?


Interesting. Just like the Romans liked to keep their armies away from
Rome so their generals wouldn't be tempted to seize power. So who will
be the first to cross our Rubicon?


The Fifth Columnists.


It won't be the MSM news columnists. They've been bought and sold.

And fed bread mold.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 12 Jan 2007 11:53:01 PM
In article <g4vfq2pidbfjs2q2ejdaks2qpu8k1v8flf@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:38:21 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <smgdq21ok6r67oot62qf6das5qf5urm8es@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:58:51 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <p6j0q29fm7b51me22dk32r3ngbos7ed3r7@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 22:52:54 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism

In article <s2onp2dfrnofbegjtujrqdkth8846vcmn0@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:


[]

The good news is that anyway you look at it we have only two
more
years
of Bush at most.


Don't bet on that. He's working on 'President for Life.'


I'm not so sure. Given his meteoric fall in popularity there would
be
a
mob with torches and pitchforks at his door if he tried that.


There's lots of lead to greet them with.


From recent polls and articles, it would seem that many in the
military
would have joined the mob..


Why do you think they're in the mid-east?


Interesting. Just like the Romans liked to keep their armies away from
Rome so their generals wouldn't be tempted to seize power. So who will
be the first to cross our Rubicon?


The Fifth Columnists.


It won't be the MSM news columnists. They've been bought and sold.


And fed bread mold.

So I've been told.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.












User: "stoney"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 31 Dec 2006 09:30:53 PM
On 25 Dec 2006 00:26:38 -0800, "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism


Michelle Malkin schrieb:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only 37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.


I can't help thinking that the USA are slowly turning precisely into
what they're fighting against: a country run by religious fanatics
where any critical thinking is banned...

It's been 'avalanching' for thirty years, if not more. Education is
simply, in general, not valued in the former USA. Brute strength,
prideful ignorance, and sports ability(ies) are what's valued. It's
quite sad. So much potential utterly wasted.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.


User: "John Popelish"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 24 Dec 2006 10:19:32 PM
Michelle Malkin wrote:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

(snip)

That was more than 300 years ago. But in the United States today, little
seems to have changed. A remarkable 87% of the population claims "never to
doubt" the existence of God; fewer than 10% identify themselves as
atheists - and their reputation appears to be deteriorating.

(snip)
Sam Harris is not up to date on the statistics from the
latest Harris poll. It indicates that only 58% of Americans
have no doubt that God exists.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=707
.
User: "Michelle Malkin"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 25 Dec 2006 12:37:10 AM
"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:ebKdnRn7_-EE0xLYnZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@adelphia.com...

Michelle Malkin wrote:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

(snip)

That was more than 300 years ago. But in the United States today,
little seems to have changed. A remarkable 87% of the population claims
"never to doubt" the existence of God; fewer than 10% identify themselves
as atheists - and their reputation appears to be deteriorating.

(snip)

Sam Harris is not up to date on the statistics from the latest Harris
poll. It indicates that only 58% of Americans have no doubt that God
exists.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=707

I had seen this poll awhile ago, but no others that
even come close to this on this specific point. Have
any other polls asked this question that you know
of? It is fascinating, since I have no doubt that
there are tons of other atheists/agnostics who are
afraid to admit this due to family and job fears.
A recent Gallup poll says that the 87% figure is
now 83%. In their poll, non-believers of all sorts
have gone up to 17% of the US populace. (I can't
remember if they included deists in that count or
not.) Part of this is no doubt caused by the
Religious Wrong and the White House Cabal.
Some people have lost their fear out of pure disgust.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
.
User: "Martin Willett"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 25 Dec 2006 06:41:49 AM
Michelle Malkin wrote:

"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:ebKdnRn7_-EE0xLYnZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@adelphia.com...

Michelle Malkin wrote:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

(snip)

That was more than 300 years ago. But in the United States today,
little seems to have changed. A remarkable 87% of the population claims
"never to doubt" the existence of God; fewer than 10% identify themselves
as atheists - and their reputation appears to be deteriorating.

(snip)

Sam Harris is not up to date on the statistics from the latest Harris
poll. It indicates that only 58% of Americans have no doubt that God
exists.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=707


I had seen this poll awhile ago, but no others that
even come close to this on this specific point. Have
any other polls asked this question that you know
of? It is fascinating, since I have no doubt that
there are tons of other atheists/agnostics who are
afraid to admit this due to family and job fears.

A recent Gallup poll says that the 87% figure is
now 83%. In their poll, non-believers of all sorts
have gone up to 17% of the US populace. (I can't
remember if they included deists in that count or
not.) Part of this is no doubt caused by the
Religious Wrong and the White House Cabal.
Some people have lost their fear out of pure disgust.

A lot depends on precisely how you phrase the question and what else is
happening at the same time. If you turn up looking like a couple of
Mormons and ask a series of questions about moral issues and family
values you will get a different response to a "do you ever question the
existence of God?" question than if you dress casually and ask them
about trusting brands, science, lawyers and politicians first. If you
wanted to make a point it would be easy to prime the audience to give a
particular answer. Unlike in the matter of politics nobody is neutral in
matters of religion.
In Britain most people answer "Christian" when asked for their religion
but if you ask them whether they go to church or have doubts about the
existence of God the impression is very different. 63% of British people
describe themselves as non-religious (when interviewed about their
beliefs in depth rather than just asking them to choose a label)
INCLUDING more than half of those who identify as Christian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0%2C%2C1978045%2C00.html
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
.


User: "stoney"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 31 Dec 2006 09:27:20 PM
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 23:19:32 -0500, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net>
wrote in alt.atheism

Michelle Malkin wrote:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

(snip)

That was more than 300 years ago. But in the United States today, little
seems to have changed. A remarkable 87% of the population claims "never to
doubt" the existence of God; fewer than 10% identify themselves as
atheists - and their reputation appears to be deteriorating.

(snip)

Sam Harris is not up to date on the statistics from the
latest Harris poll. It indicates that only 58% of Americans
have no doubt that God exists.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=707

Progress!
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.


User: "raven1"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 24 Dec 2006 05:48:52 PM
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:36:44 -0500, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:
One of the best-written articles on atheism I've ever read. Thank you
so much for posting this, Mickey!

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

December 24, 2006
The Los Angeles Times

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term "atheism" has acquired such an
extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a
perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black,
Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only 37%
of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.

Atheists are often imagined to be intolerant, immoral, depressed, blind to
the beauty of nature and dogmatically closed to evidence of the
supernatural.

Even John Locke, one of the great patriarchs of the Enlightenment,
believed that atheism was "not at all to be tolerated" because, he said,
"promises, covenants and oaths, which are the bonds of human societies, can
have no hold upon an atheist."

That was more than 300 years ago. But in the United States today, little
seems to have changed. A remarkable 87% of the population claims "never to
doubt" the existence of God; fewer than 10% identify themselves as
atheists - and their reputation appears to be deteriorating.

Given that we know that atheists are often among the most intelligent and
scientifically literate people in any society, it seems important to deflate
the myths that prevent them from playing a larger role in our national
discourse.

1) Atheists believe that life is meaningless.

On the contrary, religious people often worry that life is meaningless and
imagine that it can only be redeemed by the promise of eternal happiness
beyond the grave. Atheists tend to be quite sure that life is precious. Life
is imbued with meaning by being really and fully lived. Our relationships
with those we love are meaningful now; they need not last forever to be made
so. Atheists tend to find this fear of meaninglessness . well . meaningless.

2) Atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in human history.

People of faith often claim that the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol
Pot were the inevitable product of unbelief. The problem with fascism and
communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the
problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are dogmatic
to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are
indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the gulag
and the killing fields were not examples of what happens when human beings
reject religious dogma; they are examples of political, racial and
nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society in human history that ever
suffered because its people became too reasonable.

3) Atheism is dogmatic.

Jews, Christians and Muslims claim that their scriptures are so prescient
of humanity's needs that they could only have been written under the
direction of an omniscient deity. An atheist is simply a person who has
considered this claim, read the books and found the claim to be ridiculous.
One doesn't have to take anything on faith, or be otherwise dogmatic, to
reject unjustified religious beliefs. As the historian Stephen Henry Roberts
(1901-71) once said: "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in
one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

4) Atheists think everything in the universe arose by chance.

No one knows why the universe came into being. In fact, it is not entirely
clear that we can coherently speak about the "beginning" or "creation" of
the universe at all, as these ideas invoke the concept of time, and here we
are talking about the origin of space-time itself.

The notion that atheists believe that everything was created by chance is
also regularly thrown up as a criticism of Darwinian evolution. As Richard
Dawkins explains in his marvelous book, "The God Delusion," this represents
an utter misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. Although we don't know
precisely how the Earth's early chemistry begat biology, we know that the
diversity and complexity we see in the living world is not a product of mere
chance. Evolution is a combination of chance mutation and natural selection.
Darwin arrived at the phrase "natural selection" by analogy to the
"artificial selection" performed by breeders of livestock. In both cases,
selection exerts a highly non-random effect on the development of any
species.

5) Atheism has no connection to science.

Although it is possible to be a scientist and still believe in God - as
some scientists seem to manage it - there is no question that an engagement
with scientific thinking tends to erode, rather than support, religious
faith. Taking the U.S. population as an example: Most polls show that about
90% of the general public believes in a personal God; yet 93% of the members
of the National Academy of Sciences do not. This suggests that there are few
modes of thinking less congenial to religious faith than science is.

6) Atheists are arrogant.

When scientists don't know something - like why the universe came into
being or how the first self-replicating molecules formed - they admit it.
Pretending to know things one doesn't know is a profound liability in
science. And yet it is the life-blood of faith-based religion. One of the
monumental ironies of religious discourse can be found in the frequency with
which people of faith praise themselves for their humility, while claiming
to know facts about cosmology, chemistry and biology that no scientist
knows. When considering questions about the nature of the cosmos and our
place within it, atheists tend to draw their opinions from science. This isn't
arrogance; it is intellectual honesty.

7) Atheists are closed to spiritual experience.

There is nothing that prevents an atheist from experiencing love, ecstasy,
rapture and awe; atheists can value these experiences and seek them
regularly. What atheists don't tend to do is make unjustified (and
unjustifiable) claims about the nature of reality on the basis of such
experiences. There is no question that some Christians have transformed
their lives for the better by reading the Bible and praying to Jesus. What
does this prove? It proves that certain disciplines of attention and codes
of conduct can have a profound effect upon the human mind. Do the positive
experiences of Christians suggest that Jesus is the sole savior of humanity?
Not even remotely - because Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and even atheists
regularly have similar experiences.

There is, in fact, not a Christian on this Earth who can be certain that
Jesus even wore a beard, much less that he was born of a virgin or rose from
the dead. These are just not the sort of claims that spiritual experience
can authenticate.

8) Atheists believe that there is nothing beyond human life and human
understanding.

Atheists are free to admit the limits of human understanding in a way that
religious people are not. It is obvious that we do not fully understand the
universe; but it is even more obvious that neither the Bible nor the Koran
reflects our best understanding of it. We do not know whether there is
complex life elsewhere in the cosmos, but there might be. If there is, such
beings could have developed an understanding of nature's laws that vastly
exceeds our own. Atheists can freely entertain such possibilities. They also
can admit that if brilliant extraterrestrials exist, the contents of the
Bible and the Koran will be even less impressive to them than they are to
human atheists.

From the atheist point of view, the world's religions utterly trivialize
the real beauty and immensity of the universe. One doesn't have to accept
anything on insufficient evidence to make such an observation.

9) Atheists ignore the fact that religion is extremely beneficial to
society.

Those who emphasize the good effects of religion never seem to realize
that such effects fail to demonstrate the truth of any religious doctrine.
This is why we have terms such as "wishful thinking" and "self-deception."
There is a profound distinction between a consoling delusion and the truth.

In any case, the good effects of religion can surely be disputed. In most
cases, it seems that religion gives people bad reasons to behave well, when
good reasons are actually available. Ask yourself, which is more moral,
helping the poor out of concern for their suffering, or doing so because you
think the creator of the universe wants you to do it, will reward you for
doing it or will punish you for not doing it?

10) Atheism provides no basis for morality.

If a person doesn't already understand that cruelty is wrong, he won't
discover this by reading the Bible or the Koran - as these books are
bursting with celebrations of cruelty, both human and divine. We do not get
our morality from religion. We decide what is good in our good books by
recourse to moral intuitions that are (at some level) hard-wired in us and
that have been refined by thousands of years of thinking about the causes
and possibilities of human happiness.

We have made considerable moral progress over the years, and we didn't
make this progress by reading the Bible or the Koran more closely. Both
books condone the practice of slavery - and yet every civilized human being
now recognizes that slavery is an abomination. Whatever is good in
scripture - like the golden rule - can be valued for its ethical wisdom
without our believing that it was handed down to us by the creator of the
universe.

Copyright 2006 Sam Harris

--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.

User: "Dubh Ghall"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 24 Dec 2006 05:46:01 PM
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:36:44 -0500, "Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net>
wrote:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris

snip
Nice one, Mickey Lady.
Trouble is, it is preaching to the choir, and those who need to
read it, will dismiss it unread, if for no other reason than their fear of the
truth.
.
User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: 10 Myths and 10 Truths About Atheism 26 Dec 2006 07:34:41 AM
On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 23:46:01 +0000, Dubh Ghall wrote:

On Sun, 24 Dec 2006 17:36:44 -0500, "Michelle Malkin"
<hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote:

10 myths-and 10 truths-about atheism
By Sam Harris


snip

Nice one, Mickey Lady.

Trouble is, it is preaching to the choir, and those who need to
read it, will dismiss it unread, if for no other reason than their fear of
the truth.

But that's the nice thing about truth: it doesn't stop being true just
because most people fear to believe it. It will bide its time, waiting
for more people to understand.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.



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