| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Buyhard for Tibet" |
| Date: |
18 Sep 2003 09:55:57 AM |
| Object: |
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
In China each year there are around 10 million forced abortions. How
do we know this? Because we know that they are all done to women who
do not have the necessary ‘birth permit' required under China's
one-child policy. Also, these abortions are all carried out in China's
official ministry of health facilities.
What kind of coercion is used? Coercion takes many forms. The most
brutal involves direct physical force, which is applied to tens of
thousands of women each year. However, other forms of force are used,
such as smashing up the woman's house, or imprisoning her until she
submits, or locking up her relatives, or applying enormous fines (as
‘social compensation').
If you find this unacceptable, please join the international boycott
of Chinese products. You can start by visiting our website at
http://www.buyhard.fsnet.co.uk, where you can sign our pledgebook and
make use of our action form to let the world (and the Chinese
government) know about goods you put back on the shelf when you
realized they were made in China. Make this your everyday approach to
shopping, and we can put tremendous pressure on the Chinese government
to change its ways.
Best wishes,
China Boycott Union team.
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| User: "Dr. Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
18 Sep 2003 11:20:04 AM |
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(Buyhard for Tibet) wrote in
news:a50576c8.0309180655.625ad50@posting.google.com:
Subject: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
Damn shame you weren't there, troll.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
"And the knowledge that they fear
Is a weapon to be used against them."
--Rush, "The Weapon"
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
18 Sep 2003 12:15:31 PM |
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Subject: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
Damn shame you weren't there, troll.
But it is interesting to hear what Pat Robertson said about it.
http://www.au.org/press/pr417012.htm
PAT ROBERTSON CONDONES CHINA'S
FORCED ABORTION POLICY
TV Preacher And Christian Coalition Leader Says Chinese Are 'Doing What They
Have To Do' To Curb Population Growth
TV preacher and Christian Coalition founder Pat Robertson has condoned China's
policy of forced abortions, telling CNN's Wolf Blitzer last night that the
Chinese are "doing what they have to do" to keep the lid on a spiraling
population.
Robertson, who has repeatedly blasted legal abortion in the United States, said
during an interview on "Wolf Blitzer Reports" that the Chinese policy is
necessary because the country's population has topped 1 billion.
Asked by Blitzer to give his thoughts on the forced abortion policy, Robertson
replied, "Well, you know I don't agree with it. But at the same time, they've
got 1.2 billion people, and they don't know what to do. If every family over
there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would be
completely unsustainable."
Robertson, who acknowledged that he has business interests in China, went on to
say that China suffers from "tremendous unemployment" and is plagued with
"antiquated factories" owned by the government that will have to be shut down,
spawning more loss of jobs. "And the leadership is like on a teeter-totter
board," he said. "They can fall off if the population gets too restive. So, I
think that right now they are doing what they have to do. I don't agree with
forced abortion, but I don't think the United States needs to interfere with
what they're doing internally in this regard."
Blitzer then asked Robertson if he was worried about conservatives accusing him
of justifying the Chinese abortion policy. Robertson refused to back down,
stating that China is courting "a demographic catastrophe" by aborting more
girls than boys. He speculated that in 10 or 20 years Chinese men will have to
import wives from Indonesia. This move, he said, "will, in a sense, dilute
the--what they consider the racial purity of the Han Chinese."
Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church
and State, called Robertson's comments "mind boggling."
"This is more proof of just how extreme Robertson really is," said Lynn. "He
wants to ban all abortions in the U.S. and allow forced abortions in China.
Robertson seems deeply confused.
"With these comments, Robertson has taken a position so radical that it would
probably alienate nearly every American," Lynn added. "I wonder how many
Christian Coalition members will quit when they hear this outburst."
Lynn noted that this is not the first time Robertson has justified repressive
policies in China in order to advance his business interests. In September of
1998, Robertson traveled to China where he met with top government officials
and praised religious freedom in the country.
Other conservative leaders have criticized China for persecuting Christian
groups and forcing them underground, but Robertson said he believes the country
respects religious freedom. At the time, Robertson's U.S. Media Corporation was
involved in a business deal with the Chinese government to produce children's
television programming.
Concluded AU's Lynn, "These statements tell us a lot about Robertson's true
priorities. Apparently, he's willing to put profits ahead of principle whenever
convenient."
======================================
In one way Lynn is wrong. Robertson is not deeply confused. He is extremely
consistent in his beliefs. For Robertson, abortion is not the
issue...government control is. He is a strong supporter of government control
of damn near everything, which explains why he supports the policy of state
control of reproductive choice both in the US and in the PRC. As long as it is
government compelling the actions of its citizens, Robertson will support it.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Ill-Legal Dept. "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here"
"My country, right or wrong; to be defended when right and righted when wrong."
- Thomas Jefferson
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
19 Sep 2003 07:07:58 AM |
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:15:31 +0000, Lord Calvert wrote:
Robertson, who acknowledged that he has business interests in China
'Nuff said...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
19 Sep 2003 10:27:21 AM |
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In article <pan.2003.09.19.12.07.58.978607@eac.org>,
says...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:15:31 +0000, Lord Calvert wrote:
Robertson, who acknowledged that he has business interests in China
'Nuff said...
That does seem to change everything doesn't it. Robertson didn't care
that Taylor was a brutal murderer, as long as he was getting his
diamonds.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
19 Sep 2003 10:28:24 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:27:21 -0600, quibbler wrote:
In article <pan.2003.09.19.12.07.58.978607@eac.org>,
says...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:15:31 +0000, Lord Calvert wrote:
Robertson, who acknowledged that he has business interests in China
'Nuff said...
That does seem to change everything doesn't it. Robertson didn't care
that Taylor was a brutal murderer, as long as he was getting his diamonds.
"Diamonds! Everbody loves diamonds! Diamonds will make everything right!"
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
19 Sep 2003 01:29:15 PM |
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In article <pan.2003.09.19.15.28.23.319267@eac.org>,
says...
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:27:21 -0600, quibbler wrote:
In article <pan.2003.09.19.12.07.58.978607@eac.org>,
says...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:15:31 +0000, Lord Calvert wrote:
Robertson, who acknowledged that he has business interests in China
'Nuff said...
That does seem to change everything doesn't it. Robertson didn't care
that Taylor was a brutal murderer, as long as he was getting his diamonds.
"Diamonds! Everbody loves diamonds! Diamonds will make everything right!"
Hummmm....the simpsons do have yellow skin and we are talking about
china. Hey...wait a minute...why do the simpsons have ***three*** kids?
I guess were gonna have to post-natally abort two of 'em :)
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "Dr. Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
18 Sep 2003 12:34:16 PM |
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forlornh@aol.commode (Lord Calvert) wrote in
news:20030918131531.21934.00001485@mb-m04.aol.com:
<snip>
In one way Lynn is wrong. Robertson is not deeply confused. He is
extremely consistent in his beliefs. For Robertson, abortion is not
the issue...government control is. He is a strong supporter of
government control of damn near everything, which explains why he
supports the policy of state control of reproductive choice both in
the US and in the PRC. As long as it is government compelling the
actions of its citizens, Robertson will support it.
Agreed. I wonder how his bank accounts are looking since his buddy Chuck
Taylor was ousted from Liberia? He seems to be keeping quiet about it.
Must be too busy prayin' for the Satan-spawned HURRAcane to spare the East
Coast.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
"And the knowledge that they fear
Is a weapon to be used against them."
--Rush, "The Weapon"
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| User: "Mark Fox" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
18 Sep 2003 04:40:37 PM |
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Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote
Buyhard for Tibet scrawled:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
An actual cite, please?
Funny thing is that China has around 1.3 billion people so 10 million
abortions is less than one percent. thats probably less than the US
abortion rate.
Should we boycott US products in protest????
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| User: "Osprey" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
18 Sep 2003 04:43:56 PM |
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"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a258afb5.0309181340.1aaefe2e@posting.google.com...
Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote
Buyhard for Tibet scrawled:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
An actual cite, please?
Funny thing is that China has around 1.3 billion people so 10 million
abortions is less than one percent. thats probably less than the US
abortion rate.
Should we boycott US products in protest????
Isn't that a shame? That there percentage may be less than the US?
That doesn't say much for our values any more that's for sure.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
19 Sep 2003 10:39:04 AM |
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In article <VvKdnUWDo97RuveiU-KYgw@comcast.com>,
says...
"Mark Fox" <mark_fox_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a258afb5.0309181340.1aaefe2e@posting.google.com...
Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote
Buyhard for Tibet scrawled:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
An actual cite, please?
Funny thing is that China has around 1.3 billion people so 10 million
abortions is less than one percent. thats probably less than the US
abortion rate.
Should we boycott US products in protest????
Isn't that a shame?
Nope...except maybe in the sense that the US should also be implementing
policies to control its population expansion.
That there percentage may be less than the US?
Firstly, I highly doubt that there are 10 million abortion in the US in a
year. The stats I've seen suggest that there have only been 30 million
since Roe v Wade and that was 30 years ago. So I suspect that the US
rate is around 10 times lower. This article confirms that conjecture.
http://www.ppmarmonte.org/news/viewer.asp?ID=661
Furthermore, it's gone down a lot because of effective contraception
pills and other medical advances.
That doesn't say much for our values any more that's for sure.
It doesn't show that there is anything wrong with our values. Rather, it
suggests that you are merely a sloppy thinker who can't back up your
vague assertions and probably don't know what the hell you're talking
about.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "Mark Fox" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
19 Sep 2003 10:11:51 PM |
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quibbler wrote:
"Mark Fox" wrote:
Funny thing is that China has around 1.3 billion people so 10 million
abortions is less than one percent. thats probably less than the US
abortion rate.
Should we boycott US products in protest????
That doesn't say much for our values any more that's for sure.
It doesn't show that there is anything wrong with our values. Rather, it
suggests that you are merely a sloppy thinker who can't back up your
vague assertions and probably don't know what the hell you're talking
about.
I was the one who threw out the sloppy assumption above.
Its always a good conversation starter :-)
thanks for clarifying the 1 million US abortions per year.
Since china has 4 times our population their abortion rate equates to
about twice the abortion rate per capita of the US. Considering their
rural population who probably have no access to birth control that
seems reasonable.
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| User: "Buyhard for Tibet" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
21 Sep 2003 06:09:46 PM |
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(Mark Fox) wrote in message news:<a258afb5.0309181340.1aaefe2e@posting.google.com>...
Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote
Buyhard for Tibet scrawled:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
An actual cite, please?
I am quoting a representitive of the Population Research Institute
(http://www.pop.org/) whom I spoke to on the phone - therefore I can't
actually point you to a published quote. Phone them up yourself.
Funny thing is that China has around 1.3 billion people so 10 million
abortions is less than one percent.
thats probably less than the US abortion rate.
Where is YOUR proof of this?
Should we boycott US products in protest????
Do what you want.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
18 Sep 2003 05:10:31 PM |
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In article <a50576c8.0309180655.625ad50@posting.google.com>,
buyhard@hotmail.com says...
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
I'd rather see forced abortions than forced childbirth or forced
marriage, both of which have been very typical in ancient and biblical
societies. Abortions are relatively safe and quick. Besides, how else
can the chinese government enforce the law? If people think they will
always be able to get away with just paying a fine or something then
their population will continue to grow to disastrous levels. Anyone who
thinks population control is not a serious issue in China simply hasn't
been paying attention.
In China each year there are around 10 million forced abortions. How
do we know this? Because we know that they are all done to women who
do not have the necessary ?birth permit' required under China's
one-child policy.
And you have these documents? Show us what you've got.
Also, these abortions are all carried out in China's
official ministry of health facilities.
So?
What kind of coercion is used? Coercion takes many forms. The most
brutal involves direct physical force, which is applied to tens of
thousands of women each year. However, other forms of force are used,
such as smashing up the woman's house, or imprisoning her until she
submits, or locking up her relatives, or applying enormous fines (as
?social compensation').
Many civilized countries have had to take a hard line against zealots,
such as those who refuse to be vaccinated, or those who refuse to get
medical care for their children. People who break the one-child policy
in China very likely know that their actions are illegal, but are trying
to get away with it anyway. It sounds like those who get mistreated are
ones who intentionally defy the system and then refuse to take a hint
when they are told to correct their behavior.
If you find this unacceptable, please join the international boycott
of Chinese products.
I'm not a fan of other Chinese policies, but I do agree with this one.
In any event, I highly doubt that an international boycott with do
anything. OTOH, I will certainly boycott anything at buyhard.com.
--
_____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.
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| User: "Wes" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
06 Oct 2003 05:15:23 AM |
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quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19d3db4087ae959298a1ae@news.cis.dfn.de>...
In article <a50576c8.0309180655.625ad50@posting.google.com>,
buyhard@hotmail.com says...
In China each year there are around 10 million forced abortions. How
do we know this? Because we know that they are all done to women who
do not have the necessary ?birth permit' required under China's
one-child policy.
And you have these documents? Show us what you've got.
Exactly. There is a "birth permit" but it's not de facto compulsory—
http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fct/2002/2002fct126.html China's
one-child policy isn't some etched-in-stone statute on the books, but
an unofficial series of inducements to reduce (primarily urban) family
size, along with a series of financial and social disincentives to
exceeding *de facto* two kids, even though it was originally geared
toward only one child in the late 1970s:
http://www.overpopulation.com/discussion/fullthread$msgnum=5446.
There were indeed many atrocious abuses in the 1980s shortly after the
policy was first enacted, but it's been moderated as the government
has faced not only international opprobrium but also a recognition
that where enforcement is coercive (and it generally isn't, as
discussed below), the practice has been both draconian and wholly
ineffective. There's never been a de jure *requirement* that families
have only one kid, just carrots and sticks in that direction (more
sticks than carrots in the 80s), and both forced abortion and
infanticide are prohibited and (recently at least) sternly punished by
the authorities. The one-child policy has still stricken me as being
coercive, even with the recent relaxations, and I'm not a fan of it
(I'll explain below). But a lot of the most extreme characterizations
of China's policy are factually inaccurate. The most important point
IMHO is that the evidence suggests that *the one-child policy isn't
succeeding*. More recent data suggest that upwards of 4/5 of China's
*documented* children are born with one or several siblings
(http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/3922447.htm), and
that what demographic changes have occurred in China, have ensued far
more from economic and urbanization patterns than any pre-applied
policy.
I wrote a lot more on this topic but I don't want to soak up any more
bandwidth on this ng. For anybody who actually wants to plow through
all the boring details, here's the link on my website:
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~ulm/usenet/China_one_child_policy.htm
Wes Ulm
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| User: "Buyhard for Tibet" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
24 Sep 2003 03:04:58 PM |
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quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19d3db4087ae959298a1ae@news.cis.dfn.de>...
In article <a50576c8.0309180655.625ad50@posting.google.com>,
buyhard@hotmail.com says...
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
I'd rather see forced abortions than forced childbirth or forced
marriage, both of which have been very typical in ancient and biblical
societies.
If you think that forcing 10 million women to have abortions every
year is cool, then you clearly have very little respect or love for
mankind. I suspect that as a follower of Richard Dawkins you look on
everything with a cold, logical eye - most of all yourself! If we were
being really logical, we would do away with the human race altogether,
given the amount of destruction we're causing to our planet. I'm sure
you'd approve of that idea.
Bob.
Boycott Chinese products - http://www.buyhard.fsnet.co.uk
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| User: "Kermit" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
06 Oct 2003 12:08:19 PM |
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(Buyhard for Tibet) wrote in message news:<a50576c8.0309241204.22a16dba@posting.google.com>...
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19d3db4087ae959298a1ae@news.cis.dfn.de>...
In article <a50576c8.0309180655.625ad50@posting.google.com>,
says...
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
I'd rather see forced abortions than forced childbirth or forced
marriage, both of which have been very typical in ancient and biblical
societies.
If you think that forcing 10 million women to have abortions every
year is cool, then you clearly have very little respect or love for
mankind. I suspect that as a follower of Richard Dawkins you look on
everything with a cold, logical eye - most of all yourself! If we were
being really logical, we would do away with the human race altogether,
given the amount of destruction we're causing to our planet. I'm sure
you'd approve of that idea.
Bob.
Boycott Chinese products - http://www.buyhard.fsnet.co.uk
IF:
The population is such a problem in China that people risk starvation,
and if not all of the Chinese comply with the one-shild policy,
then allowing that to happen could result in:
many children, young and old, as well as adults starving;
a desperate people taking drastic and irrational actions - such as
war;
and surviving children being brain damaged ( a normal result of
calories deprivation on a developing brain).
While I prefer economic incentives whenever possible, China may not
have that option (what financial incentives are there for dirt-poor
farmers?) They may well be taking the most rational steps for a
dangerous situation. Your morality by squeamishness could result in
more chidren dying and much miser. I am not impressed.
People who do not face problems in "cold-blooded" may make things much
worse. That is not moral; it is ethical cowardice. You are sacrificing
children and fetuses on the altar of your discomfort.
--- Kermit
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| User: "42" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year, A good start |
08 Oct 2003 03:22:21 PM |
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"Kermit" <freehand_THX1138@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1575bfdc.0310060908.75eae957@posting.google.com...
buyhard@hotmail.com (Buyhard for Tibet) wrote in message
news:<a50576c8.0309241204.22a16dba@posting.google.com>...
quibbler <quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<MPG.19d3db4087ae959298a1ae@news.cis.dfn.de>...
In article <a50576c8.0309180655.625ad50@posting.google.com>,
buyhard@hotmail.com says...
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
I'd rather see forced abortions than forced childbirth or forced
marriage, both of which have been very typical in ancient and biblical
societies.
If you think that forcing 10 million women to have abortions every
year is cool, then you clearly have very little respect or love for
mankind. I suspect that as a follower of Richard Dawkins you look on
everything with a cold, logical eye - most of all yourself! If we were
being really logical, we would do away with the human race altogether,
given the amount of destruction we're causing to our planet. I'm sure
you'd approve of that idea.
Bob.
Boycott Chinese products - http://www.buyhard.fsnet.co.uk
IF:
The population is such a problem in China that people risk starvation,
and if not all of the Chinese comply with the one-shild policy,
then allowing that to happen could result in:
many children, young and old, as well as adults starving;
a desperate people taking drastic and irrational actions - such as
war;
and surviving children being brain damaged ( a normal result of
calories deprivation on a developing brain).
While I prefer economic incentives whenever possible, China may not
have that option (what financial incentives are there for dirt-poor
farmers?) They may well be taking the most rational steps for a
dangerous situation. Your morality by squeamishness could result in
more chidren dying and much miser. I am not impressed.
People who do not face problems in "cold-blooded" may make things much
worse. That is not moral; it is ethical cowardice. You are sacrificing
children and fetuses on the altar of your discomfort.
--- Kermit
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
20 Sep 2003 03:00:25 PM |
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In talk.abortion, Buyhard for Tibet
<buyhard@hotmail.com>
wrote
on 18 Sep 2003 07:55:57 -0700
<a50576c8.0309180655.625ad50@posting.google.com>:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
In China each year there are around 10 million forced abortions. How
do we know this? Because we know that they are all done to women who
do not have the necessary ‘birth permit' required under China's
one-child policy. Also, these abortions are all carried out in China's
official ministry of health facilities.
[rest snipped]
Ohmygod! Everyone, panic! Stop abortion NOW (for that
matter, stop NOW!) in the United States to compensate!
Panic! Don't forget to register all of your 17-year-old
daughters to The Ministry Of Love (And Giving Birth)!
Panic! Volunteer now to watch pregnant women as they
walk down the street, walk into a clinic, walk into their
bedroom and take all their clothes off! Panic!
*ahem*
OK, I think it's out of my system now. :-)
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
18 Sep 2003 11:03:05 AM |
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On 18 Sep 2003 07:55:57 -0700, several witnesses claim to have seen
buyhard@hotmail.com (Buyhard for Tibet) scrawl a message on the wall:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
An actual cite, please?
--
Douglas Berry
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "james g. keegan jr." |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
06 Oct 2003 12:40:36 PM |
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Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:akljmvohsdvoghvnh0me3grae36bkgbkmc@4ax.com:
On 18 Sep 2003 07:55:57 -0700, several witnesses claim to have
seen (Buyhard for Tibet) scrawl a message
on the wall:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
An actual cite, please?
there are none. the claim has been debunked repeatedly.
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| User: "revolutionarian" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
22 Oct 2003 09:57:41 AM |
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Great! That's 10,000,000 less chinees people a year that my children and
grandchildren will have to deal with.
Thank goodness
"Douglas Berry" <> wrote in message
news:akljmvohsdvoghvnh0me3grae36bkgbkmc@4ax.com...
On 18 Sep 2003 07:55:57 -0700, several witnesses claim to have seen
buyhard@hotmail.com (Buyhard for Tibet) scrawl a message on the wall:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
An actual cite, please?
--
Douglas Berry
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
22 Oct 2003 11:21:57 AM |
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Great! That's 10,000,000 less chinees people a year that my children and
grandchildren will have to deal with.
Thank goodness
And remember, Pat Robertson thinks that forced abortions in China are a "good
thing"
http://www.au.org/press/pr417012.htm
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
22 Oct 2003 10:06:44 PM |
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On 22 Oct 2003 16:21:57 GMT, forlornh@aol.complex (Lord Calvert)
posted in alt.atheism:
And remember, Pat Robertson thinks that forced abortions in China are a "good
thing"
But that elective abortions here are a bad thing. It just
demonstrates how internally inconsistent Christianity really is.
--
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid
consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and
ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who
works on the basis of reward and punishment. "
- Letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
23 Oct 2003 06:44:52 AM |
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And remember, Pat Robertson thinks that forced abortions in China are a
"good
thing"
But that elective abortions here are a bad thing. It just
demonstrates how internally inconsistent Christianity really is.
Actually, Robertson is being very consistent. Neither abortion or religion is
his platform...stronger government control is. He wants decisions taken out of
the hands of the people and put in the hands of an authoritarian State. This is
why he supports rigid State control of reproductive decisions both here in the
US and in the PRC.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
24 Oct 2003 03:28:28 PM |
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:44:52 +0000, Lord Calvert wrote:
And remember, Pat Robertson thinks that forced abortions in China are a
"good
thing"
But that elective abortions here are a bad thing. It just
demonstrates how internally inconsistent Christianity really is.
Actually, Robertson is being very consistent. Neither abortion or religion is
his platform...stronger government control is. He wants decisions taken out of
the hands of the people and put in the hands of an authoritarian State. This is
why he supports rigid State control of reproductive decisions both here in the
US and in the PRC.
And we must remember it's also consistent in terms of "white babies good,
yellow babies bad!"
--
Mark K. Bilbo - From alt.atheism only
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "William Klee" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
24 Oct 2003 11:13:26 PM |
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In article <pan.2003.10.24.20.28.27.806214@eac.org>, Mark K. Bilbo
<iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:44:52 +0000, Lord Calvert wrote:
And remember, Pat Robertson thinks that forced abortions in China are a
"good
thing"
But that elective abortions here are a bad thing. It just
demonstrates how internally inconsistent Christianity really is.
Actually, Robertson is being very consistent. Neither abortion or religion
is
his platform...stronger government control is. He wants decisions taken out
of
the hands of the people and put in the hands of an authoritarian State.
This is
why he supports rigid State control of reproductive decisions both here in
the
US and in the PRC.
And we must remember it's also consistent in terms of "white babies good,
yellow babies bad!"
Actually, it's a more basic xian concept than that: Abortions in
America are evil, because a woman has control over her own body.
They're OK in China, because since it's ordered by a male doctor, she's
*not* in control over her own body. That's all that god cares about.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
23 Oct 2003 08:11:39 AM |
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On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:21:57 +0000, Lord Calvert wrote:
Great! That's 10,000,000 less chinees people a year that my children and
grandchildren will have to deal with.
Thank goodness
And remember, Pat Robertson thinks that forced abortions in China are a "good
thing"
http://www.au.org/press/pr417012.htm
Yeah. Notice abortion is a Bad Thing when it's white babies but a Good
Thing when it's those darn yellow kind...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - From alt.atheism only
"The computer revolution is over. We lost."
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| User: "Meteorite Debris" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
18 Sep 2003 06:12:22 PM |
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:03:05 GMT the ET form known as Douglas
Berry<gridlore@mindspring.com> sent a radio signal across the vast
expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.
On 18 Sep 2003 07:55:57 -0700, several witnesses claim to have seen
buyhard@hotmail.com (Buyhard for Tibet) scrawl a message on the wall:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
An actual cite, please?
From a fanatic? Please, don't expect too many facts from him.
--
To reply remove *THE_ANTI-SPAM_SHIELD*
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Shhh. Be very quiet, I'm hunting automorons. Heh heh.
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: 10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year |
19 Sep 2003 10:41:07 AM |
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:03:05 GMT, Douglas Berry <> wrote:
On 18 Sep 2003 07:55:57 -0700, several witnesses claim to have seen
buyhard@hotmail.com (Buyhard for Tibet) scrawl a message on the wall:
10,000,000 forced abortions in China each year
That's just as well. They have too many people already.
An actual cite, please?
--
Douglas Berry
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Voicemail/fax number +14136227640
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