| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bear" |
| Date: |
03 Nov 2005 03:48:05 AM |
| Object: |
2000 Years Late |
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah,
the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the Son
of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back on
the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is that
high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will see
Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Roy Culley" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
04 Nov 2005 02:32:15 AM |
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<moSdnX4MxrMXFfTeRVn-jQ@comcast.com>,
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> writes:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you
will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the
place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark
14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven?
Is that high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high
priest will see Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which
HaShem hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of
HaShem, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing
which HaShem hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it
presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
Anyone remember 10cc's song 'Second Sitting For The Last Supper'?
http://www.hitslyrics.com/0-9/10cc-lyrics-2/secondsittingforthelastsupper-lyrics-205473.html
2,000 years and he ain't shown yet
We kept his seat warm and the table set
From the 'Original Soundtrack' album.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
04 Nov 2005 02:39:29 AM |
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"Roy Culley" wrote
: "Bear" writes:
: > Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
: > Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you
: > will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the
: > place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark
: > 14:61-62
: > Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven?
: > Is that high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high
: > priest will see Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
: >
: > And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which
: > HaShem hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of
: > HaShem, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing
: > which HaShem hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it
: > presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him. Devarim 21-22
: >
: > Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
:
: Anyone remember 10cc's song 'Second Sitting For The Last Supper'?
:
:
http://www.hitslyrics.com/0-9/10cc-lyrics-2/secondsittingforthelastsupper-lyrics-205473.html
:
: 2,000 years and he ain't shown yet
: We kept his seat warm and the table set
:
: From the 'Original Soundtrack' album.
I hadn't heard that before. Fits this thread perfectly.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 04:35:20 AM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in
news:moSdnX4MxrMXFfTeRVn-jQ@comcast.com:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will
see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of
power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
The curious thing about this is who exactly reported these supposed words?
You get similar reporting in a number of other cases where the writers
weren't present but they don't tell you who they heard this hearsay from.
Klazmon.
<SNIP>
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 04:37:36 AM |
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"Llanzlan Klazmon" wrote
: "Bear" wrote in
:
: > Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
: > Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will
: > see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of
: > power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
:
: The curious thing about this is who exactly reported these supposed words?
: You get similar reporting in a number of other cases where the writers
: weren't present but they don't tell you who they heard this hearsay from.
That is indeed curious.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Khubla" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 07:34:03 AM |
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Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will
see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of
power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
The curious thing about this is who exactly reported these supposed words?
You get similar reporting in a number of other cases where the writers
weren't present but they don't tell you who they heard this hearsay from.
Klazmon.
Isn't this true of the entire Bible
Khubla>
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 07:41:10 AM |
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"Khubla" wrote
: >
: >> Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
: >> Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will
: >> see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of
: >> power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
: >
: > The curious thing about this is who exactly reported these supposed
words?
: > You get similar reporting in a number of other cases where the writers
: > weren't present but they don't tell you who they heard this hearsay
from.
: >
: > Klazmon.
: >
: Isn't this true of the entire Bible
According to my understanding.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 07:20:09 AM |
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Llanzlan Klazmon wrote:
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in
news:moSdnX4MxrMXFfTeRVn-jQ@comcast.com:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will
see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of
power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
The curious thing about this is who exactly reported these supposed words?
You get similar reporting in a number of other cases where the writers
weren't present but they don't tell you who they heard this hearsay from.
Klazmon.
<SNIP>
is an excellent observation and only goes to show that the Aramaic
sources were heavily freighted with various justifications for Yeshua
character as Messiah.
MArk and Mattityahu if we had them in the original state it is even
possible perhaps did not even argue for Jesus as a Messiah.
Luke of course [whether one author or several] is the real culprit
since he [an extension of the Rav Paulos presentation of Jesus as
vicarious sacrifice] must justify a non-Jewish Jesus for the Roman
world.
more and more i see the Jesus character as, on the one hand, in
Barabbas mode as Yehudi nationalist, and on the other, Jesus the torah
observant Yehudi preaching against what later Jewish sages would say
the "baseless hatred" of Judea at the time.
Barabbas Jesus says `Elohi elohi lama shavaktani` and Logos Jesus flies
to heaven plotting his revenge.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
04 Nov 2005 12:03:31 AM |
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Llanzlan Klazmon wrote:
"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in
news:moSdnX4MxrMXFfTeRVn-jQ@comcast.com:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will
see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of
power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
The curious thing about this is who exactly reported these supposed words?
You get similar reporting in a number of other cases where the writers
weren't present but they don't tell you who they heard this hearsay from.
Klazmon.
===>Fictional stories would have always been too boring
without the characters making interesting statements. -- L.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 06:12:39 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:moSdnX4MxrMXFfTeRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah,
the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the
Son
of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back
on
the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is
that
high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will
see
Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
--
Bear
Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 06:44:02 PM |
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On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:12:39 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> spake thusly:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah,
the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the
Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back
on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven?
Is that high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will
see Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
--
Bear
Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
There is no book of "Devarim" and the poster added words to
what Jesus said ("see me"). However, those who call up the
text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
He should have returned in the first century are right.
And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
return in, so he kept His word.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
1st Century Church of Christ
What shall I render to the Lord
for all His benefits toward me?
I will take up the cup of salvation
and call upon the name of the Lord.
- Psalm 116:12-13
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 07:06:40 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" wrote
: There is no book of "Devarim" and the poster added words to
: what Jesus said ("see me"). However, those who call up the
: text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
: He should have returned in the first century are right.
There is no book of Devarim? LOL!!! Your ignorance is showing. I quoted
Bibles word for word without adding anything.
: And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
: return in, so he kept His word.
How so?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 11:57:06 PM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 03 November 2005 2:06 pm
bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net wrote:
"Pastor Dave" wrote
: There is no book of "Devarim" and the poster added words to
: what Jesus said ("see me"). However, those who call up the
: text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
: He should have returned in the first century are right.
There is no book of Devarim? LOL!!! Your ignorance is showing. I quoted
Bibles word for word without adding anything.
: And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
: return in, so he kept His word.
How so?
Davie doesn't do languages. He can only memorize his favorite pet passages
in English and then parrot them. How dare you bring the Hebrew bible into
the conversation. You have to use the other "D" word.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
04 Nov 2005 12:04:36 AM |
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"Darrell Stec" wrote
: bear wrote:
: > "Pastor Dave" wrote
: > : There is no book of "Devarim" and the poster added words to
: > : what Jesus said ("see me"). However, those who call up the
: > : text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
: > : He should have returned in the first century are right.
: >
: > There is no book of Devarim? LOL!!! Your ignorance is showing. I quoted
: > Bibles word for word without adding anything.
: >
: > : And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
: > : return in, so he kept His word.
: >
: > How so?
:
: Davie doesn't do languages. He can only memorize his favorite pet
passages
: in English and then parrot them. How dare you bring the Hebrew bible into
: the conversation. You have to use the other "D" word.
IC
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 11:52:43 PM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 03 November 2005 1:44 pm
1news-group-mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com wrote:
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:12:39 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> spake thusly:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will
see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of
power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven?
Is that high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high
priest will see Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
--
Bear
Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
There is no book of "Devarim" and the poster added words to
what Jesus said ("see me"). However, those who call up the
text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
He should have returned in the first century are right.
And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
return in, so he kept His word.
Davie, Davie, Davie even the English contradicts you. Those scriptures
clearly show Jesus talking about the end of times and his return then. It
has nothing to do with the stories about his appearances after the
resurrection story. It is even clearer in the Greek.
You fail as badly in theology as you did in science. Even your avoidance of
my little three question text demonstrates you are a dunce in biblical
matters.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 10:57:32 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:12:39 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> spake thusly:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you
will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the
place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark
14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of
heaven? Is that high priest still alive today? Is there any chance
that high priest will see Jesus coming back on the clouds of
heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which
HaShem hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the
thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem
hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou
shalt not be afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
--
Bear
Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
There is no book of "Devarim" and the poster added words to
what Jesus said ("see me"). However, those who call up the
text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
He should have returned in the first century are right.
And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
return in, so he kept His word.
Mark 14:62
61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest
asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the
Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, "I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on
the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Matthew 26
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said
unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether
thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, "Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of
power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
The high priest did not see him coming in clouds of heaven.
Matthew 24
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and
then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the
Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and
they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one
end of heaven to the other.
32 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet
tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it
is near, even at the doors.
34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled.
35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass
away.
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
04 Nov 2005 12:01:08 AM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 03 November 2005 5:57 pm
wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com wrote:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:12:39 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> spake thusly:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you
will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the
place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark
14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of
heaven? Is that high priest still alive today? Is there any chance
that high priest will see Jesus coming back on the clouds of
heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which
HaShem hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the
thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem
hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou
shalt not be afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
--
Bear
Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
There is no book of "Devarim" and the poster added words to
what Jesus said ("see me"). However, those who call up the
text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
He should have returned in the first century are right.
And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
return in, so he kept His word.
Mark 14:62
61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest
asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the
Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, "I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on
the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Matthew 26
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said
unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether
thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, "Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of
power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
The high priest did not see him coming in clouds of heaven.
Matthew 24
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be
darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall
fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and
then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the
Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and
they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one
end of heaven to the other.
32 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet
tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it
is near, even at the doors.
34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled.
35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass
away.
Davie will only come back with a comment that it does not mean what it says
it means.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
04 Nov 2005 02:51:10 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet wbarwell
(wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
Matthew 26
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said
unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether
thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
64 Jesus saith unto him, "Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of
power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Yowsa, a public coming. And these freaks call *us* immoral.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"The world is only 5-6 thousand years old does not mean the planet
earth is only 5-6 thousand years old. There have been many worlds
created and destroyed on this planet. The creation of the planet is
described in Genesis 1. The creation of the world is described in
Genesis 2. Two different kind of creations." --Eric Brze
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
04 Nov 2005 03:21:10 AM |
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"Uncle Vic" wrote
: Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet wbarwell
: made the light shine upon us with this:
:
: > Matthew 26
: > 63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said
: > unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether
: > thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
: > 64 Jesus saith unto him, "Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you,
: > Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of
: > power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
:
: Yowsa, a public coming. And these freaks call *us* immoral.
LOL!!! Bad, bad, bad!!! :-)
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late. |
04 Nov 2005 12:13:05 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:12:39 +0000 (UTC), "kathryn"
<nospam@here.com> spake thusly:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah,
the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the
Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back
on the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven?
Is that high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will
see Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
--
Bear
Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
There is no book of "Devarim" and the poster added words to
what Jesus said ("see me"). However, those who call up the
text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
He should have returned in the first century are right.
And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
return in, so he kept His word.
===>How did he "return"?
Who saw him "sitting at God's right hand in the place of power"?
WHo saw him "coming back on the clouds of heaven?"
Did the Gospel writer simply repeat what he learned from the
author of 1 Thessalonians? -- L.
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| User: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?cantc=FF?=" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 07:07:30 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
kathryn wrote:
Bear wrote:
"And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid of him." - Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
There is no book of "Devarim"
Yes there is.
Do you not recognize these words from the Bible?
Or do you use only the New Testament?
and the poster added words to what Jesus said ("see me").
Are you referring to Mark 14:61-62?
Please post the correct English translation.
However, those who call up the
text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
He should have returned in the first century are right.
And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
return in, so he kept His word.
When was this? How many years later?
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 07:28:32 PM |
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"cantcÿ" wrote
: Pastor Dave wrote:
: > kathryn wrote:
: > > Bear wrote:
: >>> "And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which
HaShem
: >>> hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if
the thing
: >>> follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
: >>> spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
: >>> afraid of him." - Devarim 21-22
: >>>
: >>> Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
: >>
: >>Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
: >
: > There is no book of "Devarim"
:
: Yes there is.
BTW, that should have read Devarim 18:21-22
: Do you not recognize these words from the Bible?
: Or do you use only the New Testament?
:
: > and the poster added words to what Jesus said ("see me").
:
: Are you referring to Mark 14:61-62?
:
: Please post the correct English translation.
:
:
: > However, those who call up the
: > text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
: > He should have returned in the first century are right.
: >
: > And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
: > return in, so he kept His word.
:
: When was this? How many years later?
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 09:35:19 PM |
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On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 14:07:30 -0500, cantcÿ
<noratz99@ao|.com> spake thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
kathryn wrote:
Bear wrote:
"And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid of him." - Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
There is no book of "Devarim"
Yes there is.
Do you not recognize these words from the Bible?
Or do you use only the New Testament?
I know what a Jewish Bible is. And the JPS uses this
wording. But it is not in the English translation and
the Hebrew word there is not "HaShem" and so thus,
it is not accurate anyway and typically, when one implies
"Bible", which one does imply, when one tries to cite
Deuteronomy (and forgets the chapter #, btw) and
the texts regarding Jesus, one does not call it "Devarim",
which, as I said, is not found in the Bible. But okay, if
you want to make the claim based on such as the JPS
existing, fine, I'll give you that one as a technical point.
and the poster added words to what Jesus said ("see me").
Are you referring to Mark 14:61-62?
Please post the correct English translation.
Mark 14:61-62
61) But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again
the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the
Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62)And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man
sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds
of heaven.
It doesn't say, "see me, the Son of Man". The words,
"see me" were added by the poster.
However, those who call up the
text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
He should have returned in the first century are right.
And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
return in, so he kept His word.
When was this? How many years later?
70 AD. Just shy of 40 years, which is a Biblical
generation, as the wandering in the wilderness shows.
And a 70 AD return was the belief of the ancient church.
This "end times" garbage was not believed by the church
until modern times. It began to be popularized with Darby,
who brought Dispensationalism to the forefront in around
1800 AD and used also Scofield's garbage teaching of
the Rapture, which is not Biblical either, but appeared in
his garbage "Scofield Study Bible" in 1830 AD.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
1st Century Church of Christ
What shall I render to the Lord
for all His benefits toward me?
I will take up the cup of salvation
and call upon the name of the Lord.
- Psalm 116:12-13
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 10:32:00 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" wrote
: cantcÿ spake thusly:
: >Pastor Dave wrote:
: >> kathryn wrote:
: >> > Bear wrote:
: >>>> "And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which
HaShem
: >>>> hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if
the thing
: >>>> follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
: >>>> spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
: >>>> afraid of him." - Devarim 21-22
: >>>>
: >>>> Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
: >>>
: >>>Actually what is the "offical" line on that?
: >>
: >> There is no book of "Devarim"
: >
: >Yes there is.
: >Do you not recognize these words from the Bible?
: >Or do you use only the New Testament?
:
: I know what a Jewish Bible is. And the JPS uses this
: wording. But it is not in the English translation and
: the Hebrew word there is not "HaShem" and so thus,
: it is not accurate anyway and typically, when one implies
: "Bible", which one does imply, when one tries to cite
: Deuteronomy (and forgets the chapter #, btw) and
: the texts regarding Jesus, one does not call it "Devarim",
: which, as I said, is not found in the Bible. But okay, if
: you want to make the claim based on such as the JPS
: existing, fine, I'll give you that one as a technical point.
What exactly is your problem with using a clearer wording of the passage?
: >> and the poster added words to what Jesus said ("see me").
: >
: >Are you referring to Mark 14:61-62?
: >
: >Please post the correct English translation.
:
: Mark 14:61-62
:
: 61) But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again
: the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the
: Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
: 62)And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man
: sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds
: of heaven.
:
: It doesn't say, "see me, the Son of Man". The words,
: "see me" were added by the poster.
Then you have not read the passage in the Holy Bible, New Living
Translation, copyright © 1996. Used by permission of Tyndale House
Publishers, Inc., Wheaton, Illinois 60189. All rights reserved.
Also, what meaning is it that you are saying that this wording changes?
Also, be careful of your accusations. Tsk, tsk!
: >> However, those who call up the
: >> text and state that if Jesus was truly the Son of God that
: >> He should have returned in the first century are right.
: >>
: >> And Jesus did return within the generation He said He would
: >> return in, so he kept His word.
: >
: >When was this? How many years later?
:
: 70 AD. Just shy of 40 years, which is a Biblical
: generation, as the wandering in the wilderness shows.
: And a 70 AD return was the belief of the ancient church.
: This "end times" garbage was not believed by the church
: until modern times. It began to be popularized with Darby,
: who brought Dispensationalism to the forefront in around
: 1800 AD and used also Scofield's garbage teaching of
: the Rapture, which is not Biblical either, but appeared in
: his garbage "Scofield Study Bible" in 1830 AD.
Do you have any other sources for your assertion, because the NT seems to
teach the end times "garbage" in many verses.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
04 Nov 2005 02:46:49 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Dave (1news-group-
mail1@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
I know what a Jewish Bible is. And the JPS uses this
wording. But it is not in the English translation and
the Hebrew word there is not "HaShem" and so thus,
it is not accurate anyway and typically, when one implies
"Bible", which one does imply, when one tries to cite
Deuteronomy (and forgets the chapter #, btw) and
the texts regarding Jesus, one does not call it "Devarim",
which, as I said, is not found in the Bible. But okay, if
you want to make the claim based on such as the JPS
existing, fine, I'll give you that one as a technical point
Is biblical accuracy important to you Dave? If so, how do you reconcile
the baloney presented to us in Genesis? Or the violence of the Loving
God in Deuteronomy and Leviticus? What about the contradictions bible-
wide, especially the stories of the death of Judas?
What about the nonsense that is presented as science? The absurdities
presented as history? The magical miracles that somehow stopped
happening as soon as the story was over?
There is no biblical accuracy, the bible shoots itself in the foot.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
----
"The world is only 5-6 thousand years old does not mean the planet
earth is only 5-6 thousand years old. There have been many worlds
created and destroyed on this planet. The creation of the planet is
described in Genesis 1. The creation of the world is described in
Genesis 2. Two different kind of creations." --Eric Brze
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 04:07:59 PM |
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Bear wrote:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah, the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you
will see me, the Son of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the
place of power and coming back on the clouds of heaven." Mark
14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven?
Is that high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high
priest will see Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which
HaShem hath not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of
HaShem, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing
which HaShem hath not spoken; the prophet hath spoken it
presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
See also Matthew 26:64, Matthew 24:30,24:31.
--
The official spokesman of the Foxes said
today that investigation into what happened
to the henhouse may be needed.
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late. |
03 Nov 2005 11:58:29 PM |
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Bear wrote:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah,
the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the Son
of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back on
the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is that
high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will see
Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
===>Unlikely that anyone spoke those words.
Read any fictional story and you will find the characters
saying all sorts of things.
The Gospels are fictional stories.
Their character IESOUS is made to say all sorts of things,
which were most likely never said by any real person. -- L.
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late. |
03 Nov 2005 11:59:38 PM |
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"Libertarius" wrote
: Bear wrote:
:
: > Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah,
: > the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the
Son
: > of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming
back on
: > the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
: >
: > Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is
that
: > high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will
see
: > Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
: >
: > And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath
: > not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
: > follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
: > spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid
: > of him. Devarim 21-22
: >
: > Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
:
: ===>Unlikely that anyone spoke those words.
: Read any fictional story and you will find the characters
: saying all sorts of things.
: The Gospels are fictional stories.
: Their character IESOUS is made to say all sorts of things,
: which were most likely never said by any real person. -- L.
Understood. Either way the Bible is not the inerrant word of God.
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late. |
04 Nov 2005 01:06:19 AM |
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Bear wrote:
"Libertarius" wrote
: Bear wrote:
:
: > Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah,
: > the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the
Son
: > of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming
back on
: > the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
: >
: > Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is
that
: > high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will
see
: > Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
: >
: > And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath
: > not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
: > follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
: > spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid
: > of him. Devarim 21-22
: >
: > Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
:
: ===>Unlikely that anyone spoke those words.
: Read any fictional story and you will find the characters
: saying all sorts of things.
: The Gospels are fictional stories.
: Their character IESOUS is made to say all sorts of things,
: which were most likely never said by any real person. -- L.
Understood. Either way the Bible is not the inerrant word of God.
===>Of course not. That is just a lie and a trap to catch
credulous "believers". It is a compilation of writings by
humans, just like any other similar anthology. -- L.
.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late. |
04 Nov 2005 02:20:52 AM |
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Libertarius wrote:
Bear wrote:
"Libertarius" wrote
: Bear wrote:
:
: > Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah,
: > the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the
Son
: > of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming
back on
: > the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
: >
: > Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is
that
: > high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will
see
: > Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
: >
: > And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath
: > not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
: > follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
: > spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid
: > of him. Devarim 21-22
: >
: > Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
:
: ===>Unlikely that anyone spoke those words.
: Read any fictional story and you will find the characters
: saying all sorts of things.
: The Gospels are fictional stories.
: Their character IESOUS is made to say all sorts of things,
: which were most likely never said by any real person. -- L.
Understood. Either way the Bible is not the inerrant word of God.
===>Of course not. That is just a lie and a trap to catch
credulous "believers". It is a compilation of writings by
humans, just like any other similar anthology. -- L.
You don't know anything, do you. The Bible was written by beavers and
seagulls. And it was translated by planaria.
TCross
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late. |
04 Nov 2005 06:32:50 PM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
Libertarius wrote:
Bear wrote:
"Libertarius" wrote
: Bear wrote:
:
: > Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the
Messiah,
: > the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the
Son
: > of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming
back on
: > the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
: >
: > Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is
that
: > high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will
see
: > Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
: >
: > And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem
hath
: > not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
: > follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
: > spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be
afraid
: > of him. Devarim 21-22
: >
: > Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
:
: ===>Unlikely that anyone spoke those words.
: Read any fictional story and you will find the characters
: saying all sorts of things.
: The Gospels are fictional stories.
: Their character IESOUS is made to say all sorts of things,
: which were most likely never said by any real person. -- L.
Understood. Either way the Bible is not the inerrant word of God.
===>Of course not. That is just a lie and a trap to catch
credulous "believers". It is a compilation of writings by
humans, just like any other similar anthology. -- L.
You don't know anything, do you. The Bible was written by beavers and
seagulls. And it was translated by planaria.
TCross
===>Funny.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
06 Nov 2005 10:59:13 PM |
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On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 22:48:05 -0500, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah,
the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the Son
of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back on
the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is that
high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will see
Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
***** poor fiction is worthless.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president
represents, more and more closely, the inner soul
of the people. On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's
desire at last and the White House will be adorned
by a downright moron." --- H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: 2000 Years Late |
03 Nov 2005 11:52:51 PM |
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On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 22:48:05 -0500, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote:
Jesus made no reply. Then the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah,
the Son of the blessed God?" Jesus said, "I am, and you will see me, the Son
of Man, sitting at God's right hand in the place of power and coming back on
the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:61-62
Who did Jesus say would see him coming back on the clouds of heaven? Is that
high priest still alive today? Is there any chance that high priest will see
Jesus coming back on the clouds of heaven?
And if thou say in thy heart: 'How shall we know the word which HaShem hath
not spoken?' When a prophet speaketh in the name of HaShem, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which HaShem hath not
spoken; the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid
of him. Devarim 21-22
Did Jesus speak presumptuously?
No, he came back 3 days later, and was sitting at the right hand of the Father
40 days after that.
All scriptural, dude.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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