| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JohnN" |
| Date: |
01 Feb 2005 06:39:37 PM |
| Object: |
2005 Creation Mega Conference |
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd. Details on the participants are at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/megaconference/speakers.aspx or
link from The Landover Baptist Church website,
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/. Its on the right hand side of the
January issue.
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but they
are real scientists. Therefore, they know what a scientific theory is.
They know what evolution is. They can give us an actual Theory of
Creation and provide positive evidence for it. They can be expected to
correct poorly informed Creationist when there is errors in defining
Evolution and the Theory of.
Among the speakers are:
Dr. John Baumgardner
B.S. (Texas Tech University, electrical engineering), M.S. (Princeton
University, electrical engineering), Ph.D. (UCLA, geophysics and space
physics)
U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner 'the world's
preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.' His
technical work at Los Alamos National Laboratory (New Mexico) included
development of a new global ocean model for investigating climate
change.
Dr. Baumgardner will be presenting:
Putting the Puzzle Pieces Together: Global Tectonics and the Flood
He may be the John R Baumgardner who co-wrote TIME SCALES AND
HETEROGENEOUS STRUCTURE IN GEODYNAMIC EARTH MODELS, By: Bunge,
Hans-Peter, Richards, Mark A., Lithgow-Bertelloni, Carolina,
Baumgardner, John R., Grand, Stephen P., Romanowicz, Barbara A.,
Science, 00368075, 04/03/98, Vol. 280, Issue 5360
The article does not mention God, Genesis, The Flood, or Creationism so
I do not know if they are the same person. The article does discuss
geological events from of 100 million years ago. If these are the same
person, why does Dr Baumgardner ignore YEC in his professional
publications? If he truly believes the earth is less than 10,000 years
old then writing about the Cenozoic and Mesozoic in a professional
journal is unethical. That is not a Christian value. Dr Jerry Falwell
should dis-invite him.
JohnN
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| User: "Chris Thompson" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 06:35:45 PM |
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"JohnN" <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1107283177.622560.69510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd. Details on the participants are at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/megaconference/speakers.aspx or
link from The Landover Baptist Church website,
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/. Its on the right hand side of the
January issue.
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but they
are real scientists. Therefore, they know what a scientific theory
is. They know what evolution is. They can give us an actual Theory of
Creation and provide positive evidence for it. They can be expected
to correct poorly informed Creationist when there is errors in
defining Evolution and the Theory of.
Among the speakers are:
Dr. John Baumgardner
B.S. (Texas Tech University, electrical engineering), M.S. (Princeton
University, electrical engineering), Ph.D. (UCLA, geophysics and space
physics)
U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner 'the world's
preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.' His
technical work at Los Alamos National Laboratory (New Mexico) included
development of a new global ocean model for investigating climate
change.
Dr. Baumgardner will be presenting:
Putting the Puzzle Pieces Together: Global Tectonics and the Flood
He may be the John R Baumgardner who co-wrote TIME SCALES AND
HETEROGENEOUS STRUCTURE IN GEODYNAMIC EARTH MODELS, By: Bunge,
Hans-Peter, Richards, Mark A., Lithgow-Bertelloni, Carolina,
Baumgardner, John R., Grand, Stephen P., Romanowicz, Barbara A.,
Science, 00368075, 04/03/98, Vol. 280, Issue 5360
The article does not mention God, Genesis, The Flood, or Creationism
so I do not know if they are the same person. The article does
discuss geological events from of 100 million years ago. If these are
the same person, why does Dr Baumgardner ignore YEC in his
professional publications? If he truly believes the earth is less
than 10,000 years old then writing about the Cenozoic and Mesozoic in
a professional journal is unethical. That is not a Christian value.
Dr Jerry Falwell should dis-invite him.
JohnN
Rats.
Was I the only one that missed the Call for Papers?
--
Chris
aa#2186
Black helicopter mind-control-ray door-gunner
=====
"We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and
then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so
as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry
on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that
sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually
on a battlefield." --George Orwell, 1946, "Under Your Nose"
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 07:46:24 PM |
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005, Chris Thompson <cthompson@TAKEOUTbmcc.cuny.edu> wrote:
"JohnN" <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1107283177.622560.69510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd.
Rats.
Was I the only one that missed the Call for Papers?
I got the call, but unfortunately my experiments haven't produced
any results yet.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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| User: "Chris Thompson" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 07:48:11 PM |
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(Bobby D. Bryant) wrote in
news:ctomaf$oov$3@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005, Chris Thompson <cthompson@TAKEOUTbmcc.cuny.edu>
wrote:
"JohnN" <jnorris53@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1107283177.622560.69510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd.
Rats.
Was I the only one that missed the Call for Papers?
I got the call, but unfortunately my experiments haven't produced
any results yet.
Looking over the speakers, that does not appear to be an insurmountable
hurdle.
--
Chris
aa#2186
Black helicopter mind-control-ray door-gunner
=====
"We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and
then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so
as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry
on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that
sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality, usually
on a battlefield." --George Orwell, 1946, "Under Your Nose"
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 07:32:10 PM |
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Isn't Landover Baptist a parody site of the radicla religious right?
Creationism 'Mega' Conference?
I mean, look at the site, its also got a Tsunami article titled
"God Fails to Break His Own Record for Killing "
and "Liberals Attempting to Escape to Canada Will Be Shot on Sight! "
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 09:16:34 PM |
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In article <1107286330.541404.185620@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> writes:
Isn't Landover Baptist a parody site of the radicla religious right?
Creationism 'Mega' Conference?
I mean, look at the site, its also got a Tsunami article titled
"God Fails to Break His Own Record for Killing "
and "Liberals Attempting to Escape to Canada Will Be Shot on Sight! "
Oh, Landover is indeed parody -- but the conference is
apparently for real (check the answersingenesis link)
Apparently the good folks at Landover feel that Mega 2005
can stand all on its own as parody.
-- cary
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| User: "R.Schenck" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
02 Feb 2005 01:49:41 AM |
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(Cary Kittrell) on 01 Feb 2005 posted
Apparently the good folks at Landover feel that Mega 2005
can stand all on its own as parody.
That really is a statement in itself, that Landover is linking to an actual
loony religious site and it fits in flawlessly.
Proof on intelligent design at last!
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| User: "Bob Pease" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
02 Feb 2005 03:17:53 AM |
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"R.Schenck" <nygdan_morteauxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36aptlF4q5nj8U2@individual.net...
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) on 01 Feb 2005 posted
Apparently the good folks at Landover feel that Mega 2005
can stand all on its own as parody.
That really is a statement in itself, that Landover is linking to an
actual
loony religious site and it fits in flawlessly.
Proof on intelligent design at last!
Pease's Law again...
A parody has to be recognizably nutzer than the real thing...
Landover Babtist is wasting their time if they would try to exceed absurdity
of the proceedings of the MegaConference. It's too goofy and has,
essentially no upper limits on madness.
Check out Noah's 500 year yard sale, speculated by the AIG folks!!
RJP
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 08:36:09 PM |
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:32:10 -0800, nygdan_morteauxspam wrote:
Isn't Landover Baptist a parody site of the radicla religious right?
Creationism 'Mega' Conference?
I mean, look at the site, its also got a Tsunami article titled "God Fails
to Break His Own Record for Killing " and "Liberals Attempting to Escape
to Canada Will Be Shot on Sight! "
True, but the link to the Mega conference takes to the AIG website, so I
have to assume it is legit.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
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| User: "sanguinevikings" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 09:27:01 PM |
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MarkA wrote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:32:10 -0800, nygdan_morteauxspam wrote:
Isn't Landover Baptist a parody site of the radicla religious right?
Creationism 'Mega' Conference?
I mean, look at the site, its also got a Tsunami article titled "God Fails
to Break His Own Record for Killing " and "Liberals Attempting to Escape
to Canada Will Be Shot on Sight! "
True, but the link to the Mega conference takes to the AIG website, so I
have to assume it is legit.
Wtf do you mean by legit? I had a very good look at this page, and it's
just one step removed from Monty Python. Have a close look at some of
the CVs. Dr Sylvestru caught my eye. He has a PhD in potholing!
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| User: "Gary Bohn" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
02 Feb 2005 01:04:54 AM |
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sanguinevikings <spam@spam.not> wrote in
news:jNOdneWBM62taWLcRVnyig@brightview.com:
MarkA wrote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 11:32:10 -0800, nygdan_morteauxspam wrote:
Isn't Landover Baptist a parody site of the radicla religious right?
Creationism 'Mega' Conference?
I mean, look at the site, its also got a Tsunami article titled "God
Fails to Break His Own Record for Killing " and "Liberals Attempting
to Escape to Canada Will Be Shot on Sight! "
True, but the link to the Mega conference takes to the AIG website,
so I have to assume it is legit.
Wtf do you mean by legit? I had a very good look at this page, and
it's just one step removed from Monty Python. Have a close look at
some of the CVs. Dr Sylvestru caught my eye. He has a PhD in
potholing!
I just took a look at the AiG page on the speakers. They look so
innocent and harmless don't they? Nasty little devils.
--
apatriot #23, aa #1779, Grand Poobah, EAC Department of Oxygen
Deprivation
Responsible for brain damage everywhere!
Gary Bohn
Science rationally modifies a theory to fit evidence, creationism
emotionally modifies evidence to fit the bible.
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 09:15:36 PM |
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on 01 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
Isn't Landover Baptist a parody site of the radicla religious right?
Creationism 'Mega' Conference?
I mean, look at the site, its also got a Tsunami article titled
"God Fails to Break His Own Record for Killing "
and "Liberals Attempting to Escape to Canada Will Be Shot on Sight! "
Dammit, I missed that...
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
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| User: "John Harshman" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 06:46:11 PM |
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JohnN wrote:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd. Details on the participants are at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/megaconference/speakers.aspx or
link from The Landover Baptist Church website,
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/. Its on the right hand side of the
January issue.
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real universities
with real science degrees.
Yes, but do they have anything to crow about?
OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but they
are real scientists. Therefore, they know what a scientific theory is.
They know what evolution is. They can give us an actual Theory of
Creation and provide positive evidence for it. They can be expected to
correct poorly informed Creationist when there is errors in defining
Evolution and the Theory of.
Among the speakers are:
Dr. John Baumgardner
B.S. (Texas Tech University, electrical engineering), M.S. (Princeton
University, electrical engineering), Ph.D. (UCLA, geophysics and space
physics)
U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner 'the world's
preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.' His
technical work at Los Alamos National Laboratory (New Mexico) included
development of a new global ocean model for investigating climate
change.
Dr. Baumgardner will be presenting:
Putting the Puzzle Pieces Together: Global Tectonics and the Flood
He may be the John R Baumgardner who co-wrote TIME SCALES AND
HETEROGENEOUS STRUCTURE IN GEODYNAMIC EARTH MODELS, By: Bunge,
Hans-Peter, Richards, Mark A., Lithgow-Bertelloni, Carolina,
Baumgardner, John R., Grand, Stephen P., Romanowicz, Barbara A.,
Science, 00368075, 04/03/98, Vol. 280, Issue 5360
The article does not mention God, Genesis, The Flood, or Creationism so
I do not know if they are the same person. The article does discuss
geological events from of 100 million years ago. If these are the same
person, why does Dr Baumgardner ignore YEC in his professional
publications? If he truly believes the earth is less than 10,000 years
old then writing about the Cenozoic and Mesozoic in a professional
journal is unethical. That is not a Christian value. Dr Jerry Falwell
should dis-invite him.
JohnN
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| User: "josephus" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 06:59:48 PM |
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John Harshman wrote:
JohnN wrote:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd. Details on the participants are at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/megaconference/speakers.aspx or
link from The Landover Baptist Church website,
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/. Its on the right hand side of the
January issue.
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real universities
with real science degrees.
Yes, but do they have anything to crow about?
Oh my goodness. They are so serious that it is hard to make fun of
people that dont publish. they are so serious. And I know that they
are discrimanated against, aren't they. I have heard that if they can
provide the reproduciable data, they can publish papers on it. Standing
offer from any peer review journal. Publishing in the general media
does not qualify as pusblishing.
OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but they
are real scientists. Therefore, they know what a scientific theory is.
They know what evolution is. They can give us an actual Theory of
Creation and provide positive evidence for it. They can be expected to
correct poorly informed Creationist when there is errors in defining
Evolution and the Theory of.
Among the speakers are:
Dr. John Baumgardner
B.S. (Texas Tech University, electrical engineering), M.S. (Princeton
University, electrical engineering), Ph.D. (UCLA, geophysics and space
physics)
U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner 'the world's
preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.' His
technical work at Los Alamos National Laboratory (New Mexico) included
development of a new global ocean model for investigating climate
change.
Dr. Baumgardner will be presenting:
Putting the Puzzle Pieces Together: Global Tectonics and the Flood
He may be the John R Baumgardner who co-wrote TIME SCALES AND
HETEROGENEOUS STRUCTURE IN GEODYNAMIC EARTH MODELS, By: Bunge,
Hans-Peter, Richards, Mark A., Lithgow-Bertelloni, Carolina,
Baumgardner, John R., Grand, Stephen P., Romanowicz, Barbara A.,
Science, 00368075, 04/03/98, Vol. 280, Issue 5360
The article does not mention God, Genesis, The Flood, or Creationism so
I do not know if they are the same person. The article does discuss
geological events from of 100 million years ago. If these are the same
person, why does Dr Baumgardner ignore YEC in his professional
publications? If he truly believes the earth is less than 10,000 years
old then writing about the Cenozoic and Mesozoic in a professional
journal is unethical. That is not a Christian value. Dr Jerry Falwell
should dis-invite him.
JohnN
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| User: "John Harshman" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 07:04:14 PM |
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josephus wrote:
John Harshman wrote:
JohnN wrote:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd. Details on the participants are at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/megaconference/speakers.aspx or
link from The Landover Baptist Church website,
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/. Its on the right hand side of the
January issue.
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real universities
with real science degrees.
Yes, but do they have anything to crow about?
Oh my goodness. They are so serious that it is hard to make fun of
people that dont publish. they are so serious. And I know that they
are discrimanated against, aren't they. I have heard that if they can
provide the reproduciable data, they can publish papers on it. Standing
offer from any peer review journal. Publishing in the general media
does not qualify as pusblishing.
Calm down, dude. It was a spelling flame.
.
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| User: "EjP" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 09:26:58 PM |
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JohnN wrote:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd. Details on the participants are at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/megaconference/speakers.aspx or
link from The Landover Baptist Church website,
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/. Its on the right hand side of the
January issue.
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but they
are real scientists. Therefore, they know what a scientific theory is.
They know what evolution is. They can give us an actual Theory of
Creation and provide positive evidence for it. They can be expected to
correct poorly informed Creationist when there is errors in defining
Evolution and the Theory of.
Among the speakers are:
Dr. John Baumgardner
B.S. (Texas Tech University, electrical engineering), M.S. (Princeton
University, electrical engineering), Ph.D. (UCLA, geophysics and space
physics)
U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner 'the world's
preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.' His
technical work at Los Alamos National Laboratory (New Mexico) included
development of a new global ocean model for investigating climate
change.
Dr. Baumgardner will be presenting:
Putting the Puzzle Pieces Together: Global Tectonics and the Flood
He may be the John R Baumgardner who co-wrote TIME SCALES AND
HETEROGENEOUS STRUCTURE IN GEODYNAMIC EARTH MODELS, By: Bunge,
Hans-Peter, Richards, Mark A., Lithgow-Bertelloni, Carolina,
Baumgardner, John R., Grand, Stephen P., Romanowicz, Barbara A.,
Science, 00368075, 04/03/98, Vol. 280, Issue 5360
The article does not mention God, Genesis, The Flood, or Creationism so
I do not know if they are the same person. The article does discuss
geological events from of 100 million years ago. If these are the same
person, why does Dr Baumgardner ignore YEC in his professional
publications? If he truly believes the earth is less than 10,000 years
old then writing about the Cenozoic and Mesozoic in a professional
journal is unethical. That is not a Christian value. Dr Jerry Falwell
should dis-invite him.
Baumgardner is something of an enigma. I think he's the only
YEC "scientist" I've ever heard of that not only has a genuine
PhD in a relevant field, but actually has a real job
working in that field.
However, he seems to live a double life. If you browse through
his publication record at Los Alamos, you'll find absolutely
nothing about this nonsense, and LOTS of stuff that is
totally at odds with it (e.g. lots of discussions of 100 million
year time scales). Once he leaves the lab, on the
other hand, he becomes the darling of the YEC community. He
give talkes and writes articles that are sheer bollocks.
I figured he'd be notorious at Los Alamos, but I asked some
friends I know who work there; they've never heard of him
and were pretty shocked when I described his antics.
-E
JohnN
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| User: "Danny Kodicek" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
04 Feb 2005 10:21:16 AM |
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"EjP" <noname@hackers.are.bad> wrote in message
news:ctortt$ang$1@info4.fnal.gov...
Baumgardner is something of an enigma. I think he's the only
YEC "scientist" I've ever heard of that not only has a genuine
PhD in a relevant field, but actually has a real job
working in that field.
However, he seems to live a double life. If you browse through
his publication record at Los Alamos, you'll find absolutely
nothing about this nonsense, and LOTS of stuff that is
totally at odds with it (e.g. lots of discussions of 100 million
year time scales). Once he leaves the lab, on the
other hand, he becomes the darling of the YEC community. He
give talkes and writes articles that are sheer bollocks.
Can the ID'ers wheel out any non-Christian (or even non-religious)
proponents of their 'theory'? It seems to me that that's the simplest
refutation of their claim that ID isn't God-based.
Danny
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| User: "Steven J." |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
05 Feb 2005 04:42:33 AM |
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"Danny Kodicek" <usenet@well-spring.co.uk> wrote in message
news:w0IMd.100$E41.43@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
"EjP" <noname@hackers.are.bad> wrote in message
news:ctortt$ang$1@info4.fnal.gov...
Baumgardner is something of an enigma. I think he's the only
YEC "scientist" I've ever heard of that not only has a genuine
PhD in a relevant field, but actually has a real job
working in that field.
However, he seems to live a double life. If you browse through
his publication record at Los Alamos, you'll find absolutely
nothing about this nonsense, and LOTS of stuff that is
totally at odds with it (e.g. lots of discussions of 100 million
year time scales). Once he leaves the lab, on the
other hand, he becomes the darling of the YEC community. He
give talkes and writes articles that are sheer bollocks.
Can the ID'ers wheel out any non-Christian (or even non-religious)
proponents of their 'theory'? It seems to me that that's the simplest
refutation of their claim that ID isn't God-based.
Well, there *are* the Raelians
(http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/rael.html), who think the
designers are extraterrestrial genetic engineers. OTOH, the Raelians do
base their own account of origins on their own (somewhat eccentric)
interpretation of Genesis. I don't know how much trouble this might cause
with the ACLU, if there were a strong Raelian presence in the ID movement.
More likely the major problem is with parents and school board members who
subscribe to biblical-literalist YECism or OECism, and would be
unenthusiastic about a movement that claimed the Designer not only might be,
but actually was, a space alien.
Danny
-- Steven J.
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| User: "josephus" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
05 Feb 2005 07:56:16 PM |
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Steven J. wrote:
"Danny Kodicek" <usenet@well-spring.co.uk> wrote in message
news:w0IMd.100$E41.43@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...
"EjP" <noname@hackers.are.bad> wrote in message
news:ctortt$ang$1@info4.fnal.gov...
Baumgardner is something of an enigma. I think he's the only
YEC "scientist" I've ever heard of that not only has a genuine
PhD in a relevant field, but actually has a real job
working in that field.
However, he seems to live a double life. If you browse through
his publication record at Los Alamos, you'll find absolutely
nothing about this nonsense, and LOTS of stuff that is
totally at odds with it (e.g. lots of discussions of 100 million
year time scales). Once he leaves the lab, on the
other hand, he becomes the darling of the YEC community. He
give talkes and writes articles that are sheer bollocks.
Can the ID'ers wheel out any non-Christian (or even non-religious)
proponents of their 'theory'? It seems to me that that's the simplest
refutation of their claim that ID isn't God-based.
Well, there *are* the Raelians
(http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/rael.html), who think the
designers are extraterrestrial genetic engineers. OTOH, the Raelians do
base their own account of origins on their own (somewhat eccentric)
interpretation of Genesis. I don't know how much trouble this might cause
with the ACLU, if there were a strong Raelian presence in the ID movement.
More likely the major problem is with parents and school board members who
subscribe to biblical-literalist YECism or OECism, and would be
unenthusiastic about a movement that claimed the Designer not only might be,
but actually was, a space alien.
Danny
-- Steven J.
just to add a little to the file::::
The BIG BANG
GOD spoke <BANG> Something else
No Jesus No Peace
Know Jesus Know Peace.
--- Bumper sticker
IMHO this s the definitive ID position of Religion.
josephus
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
05 Feb 2005 12:24:57 AM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:21:16 GMT, "Danny Kodicek"
<usenet@well-spring.co.uk> said in alt.atheism:
Can the ID'ers wheel out any non-Christian (or even non-religious)
proponents of their 'theory'? It seems to me that that's the simplest
refutation of their claim that ID isn't God-based.
They claim a supernatural creator. (If it's a natural creator it
couldn't have created the universe.) "Supernatural creator of the
universe" is a pretty good definition of "god" - which would make the
ID assertion inherently religious. Alternatively, "supernatural
creator of the universe" is, itself, inherently religious, as opposed
to being scientific.
--
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Danny Kodicek" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
05 Feb 2005 01:03:52 AM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:ud4801hnqimqjsiic27jtkg2ndfdipdn29@4ax.com...
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:21:16 GMT, "Danny Kodicek"
<usenet@well-spring.co.uk> said in alt.atheism:
Can the ID'ers wheel out any non-Christian (or even non-religious)
proponents of their 'theory'? It seems to me that that's the simplest
refutation of their claim that ID isn't God-based.
They claim a supernatural creator. (If it's a natural creator it
couldn't have created the universe.) "Supernatural creator of the
universe" is a pretty good definition of "god" - which would make the
ID assertion inherently religious. Alternatively, "supernatural
creator of the universe" is, itself, inherently religious, as opposed
to being scientific.
Although I'm with you all the way, it doesn't seem to me that anything about
the ID concept inherently *requires* the 'designer' to be supernatural - as
in the standard get-out 'maybe it was aliens wot dun it'. So the fact
(well - is it a fact? that was really the question I was asking) that no
IDer actually posits a non-supernatural designer would be in itself
significant, demonstrating, as you say, the underlying religious nature of
the claim.
Not that anyone is really in any doubt, of course...
Danny
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
05 Feb 2005 04:36:16 AM |
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 01:03:52 GMT, "Danny Kodicek"
<usenet@well-spring.co.uk> said in alt.atheism:
Although I'm with you all the way, it doesn't seem to me that anything about
the ID concept inherently *requires* the 'designer' to be supernatural
If it created the universe it has to be supernatural.
- as in the standard get-out 'maybe it was aliens wot dun it'.
Wouldn't work. What created the aliens? If we're just talking about
some aliens seeding life on this planet, the entire "the universe is
too complex" argument goes out the window.
So the fact (well - is it a fact? that was really the question I was asking) that no
IDer actually posits a non-supernatural designer would be in itself
significant, demonstrating, as you say, the underlying religious nature of
the claim.
Since they claim that the universe was designed by their designer -
whoever or whatever it might be <wink, wink, nudge, nudge> - it has to
be a supernatural designer. A natural designer can't create a
singularity from the outside, then create things within the
singularity.
Are they talking about the designer of the universe, the designer of
life, what? They're doing EXACTLY what Christianity did with its god
- limiting it with their definitions of it, then wanting it to not be
limited by those definitions.
Not that anyone is really in any doubt, of course...
Just to nail it down. :)
--
"A truly unselfish act would be a Christian volunteering to have his soul take your
soul's place in hell, so yours could go to Heaven. Don't hold your breath."
- John Popelish
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Lt. Kizhe Catson" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 09:56:19 PM |
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EjP wrote:
JohnN wrote:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference from
July 17 to 22nd. Details on the participants are at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/megaconference/speakers.aspx or
link from The Landover Baptist Church website,
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/. Its on the right hand side of the
January issue.
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but they
are real scientists. Therefore, they know what a scientific theory is.
They know what evolution is. They can give us an actual Theory of
Creation and provide positive evidence for it. They can be expected to
correct poorly informed Creationist when there is errors in defining
Evolution and the Theory of.
Among the speakers are:
Dr. John Baumgardner
B.S. (Texas Tech University, electrical engineering), M.S. (Princeton
University, electrical engineering), Ph.D. (UCLA, geophysics and space
physics)
U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner 'the world's
preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.' His
technical work at Los Alamos National Laboratory (New Mexico) included
development of a new global ocean model for investigating climate
change.
Dr. Baumgardner will be presenting:
Putting the Puzzle Pieces Together: Global Tectonics and the Flood
He may be the John R Baumgardner who co-wrote TIME SCALES AND
HETEROGENEOUS STRUCTURE IN GEODYNAMIC EARTH MODELS, By: Bunge,
Hans-Peter, Richards, Mark A., Lithgow-Bertelloni, Carolina,
Baumgardner, John R., Grand, Stephen P., Romanowicz, Barbara A.,
Science, 00368075, 04/03/98, Vol. 280, Issue 5360
The article does not mention God, Genesis, The Flood, or Creationism so
I do not know if they are the same person. The article does discuss
geological events from of 100 million years ago. If these are the same
person, why does Dr Baumgardner ignore YEC in his professional
publications? If he truly believes the earth is less than 10,000 years
old then writing about the Cenozoic and Mesozoic in a professional
journal is unethical. That is not a Christian value. Dr Jerry Falwell
should dis-invite him.
Baumgardner is something of an enigma. I think he's the only
YEC "scientist" I've ever heard of that not only has a genuine
PhD in a relevant field, but actually has a real job
working in that field.
Search the Archives for "Andrew Snelling": I believe he's another who
does the mild-mannered old-earth geologist by day, YECist by night
thing. Same IIRC with John Woodmorappe (who even hides his YEC identity
under a pseudonym).
-- Kizhe
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| User: "Eros" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
03 Feb 2005 02:41:27 AM |
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EjP wrote:
JohnN wrote:
Liberty University is hosting the 2005 Creation Mega Conference
from
July 17 to 22nd. Details on the participants are at
http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/megaconference/speakers.aspx
or
link from The Landover Baptist Church website,
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/. Its on the right hand side of the
January issue.
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real
universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but
they
are real scientists. Therefore, they know what a scientific theory
is.
They know what evolution is. They can give us an actual Theory of
Creation and provide positive evidence for it. They can be
expected to
correct poorly informed Creationist when there is errors in
defining
Evolution and the Theory of.
Among the speakers are:
Dr. John Baumgardner
B.S. (Texas Tech University, electrical engineering), M.S.
(Princeton
University, electrical engineering), Ph.D. (UCLA, geophysics and
space
physics)
U.S. News and World Report called Dr. Baumgardner 'the world's
preeminent expert in the design of computer convection.' His
technical work at Los Alamos National Laboratory (New Mexico)
included
development of a new global ocean model for investigating climate
change.
Dr. Baumgardner will be presenting:
Putting the Puzzle Pieces Together: Global Tectonics and the Flood
He may be the John R Baumgardner who co-wrote TIME SCALES AND
HETEROGENEOUS STRUCTURE IN GEODYNAMIC EARTH MODELS, By: Bunge,
Hans-Peter, Richards, Mark A., Lithgow-Bertelloni, Carolina,
Baumgardner, John R., Grand, Stephen P., Romanowicz, Barbara A.,
Science, 00368075, 04/03/98, Vol. 280, Issue 5360
The article does not mention God, Genesis, The Flood, or
Creationism so
I do not know if they are the same person. The article does
discuss
geological events from of 100 million years ago. If these are the
same
person, why does Dr Baumgardner ignore YEC in his professional
publications? If he truly believes the earth is less than 10,000
years
old then writing about the Cenozoic and Mesozoic in a professional
journal is unethical. That is not a Christian value. Dr Jerry
Falwell
should dis-invite him.
Baumgardner is something of an enigma. I think he's the only
YEC "scientist" I've ever heard of that not only has a genuine
PhD in a relevant field, but actually has a real job
working in that field.
Australian YEC geologist Dr. Andrew Snelling is another... well, at
least he used to have a real job as a geologist. He was/is as
ambivalent as Baumgardener with respect to the age of the earth, as
evidenced by his writings in both peer-revied journals and YEC
magazines which contradict each other.
However, he seems to live a double life. If you browse through
his publication record at Los Alamos, you'll find absolutely
nothing about this nonsense, and LOTS of stuff that is
totally at odds with it (e.g. lots of discussions of 100 million
year time scales). Once he leaves the lab, on the
other hand, he becomes the darling of the YEC community. He
give talkes and writes articles that are sheer bollocks.
I figured he'd be notorious at Los Alamos, but I asked some
friends I know who work there; they've never heard of him
and were pretty shocked when I described his antics.
-E
JohnN
EROS.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy
nailed to two pieces of wood." --George Carlin
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
01 Feb 2005 09:14:32 PM |
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on 01 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, JohnN dropped trou, farted, whirled, then
shouted:
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but they
are real scientists.
Would you describe a *real* scientist by proclaiming him a "real
scientist"? Therein lies the difference between creationism and reality.
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are the kind of
people you wouldn't want to ***** in the first place?
--George Carlin
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| User: "JohnN" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
02 Feb 2005 07:14:07 PM |
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Vic Sagerquist wrote:
on 01 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, JohnN dropped trou, farted, whirled,
then
shouted:
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real
universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but
they
are real scientists.
Would you describe a *real* scientist by proclaiming him a "real
scientist"? Therein lies the difference between creationism and
reality.
First, if they publish in peer reviewed journals and have a degree from
a legit university, they are real scientist regardless of the crap they
write off the job;
Second, I am allowed by imperial proclamation of Ming the Merciless,
somewhere on Planet Mongo.
JohnN
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| User: "Richard Forrest" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
02 Feb 2005 08:04:49 PM |
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JohnN wrote:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
on 01 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, JohnN dropped trou, farted, whirled,
then
shouted:
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real
universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but
they
are real scientists.
Would you describe a *real* scientist by proclaiming him a "real
scientist"? Therein lies the difference between creationism and
reality.
First, if they publish in peer reviewed journals and have a degree
from
a legit university, they are real scientist regardless of the crap
they
write off the job;
Second, I am allowed by imperial proclamation of Ming the Merciless,
somewhere on Planet Mongo.
JohnN
Hmm..
I don't have a degree in any scientific discipline.
On the other hand, I have published in scientific journals, carry out
original research and have made a fair number of presentations at
scientific symposia.
Am I a scientist?
RF
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| User: "John Harshman" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
02 Feb 2005 08:55:54 PM |
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Richard Forrest wrote:
JohnN wrote:
Vic Sagerquist wrote:
on 01 Feb 2005 in alt.atheism, JohnN dropped trou, farted, whirled,
then
shouted:
The rooster of speakers includes several PhD's from real
universities
with real science degrees. OK, they are Answers In Genesis, but
they
are real scientists.
Would you describe a *real* scientist by proclaiming him a "real
scientist"? Therein lies the difference between creationism and
reality.
First, if they publish in peer reviewed journals and have a degree
from
a legit university, they are real scientist regardless of the crap
they
write off the job;
Second, I am allowed by imperial proclamation of Ming the Merciless,
somewhere on Planet Mongo.
JohnN
Hmm..
I don't have a degree in any scientific discipline.
On the other hand, I have published in scientific journals, carry out
original research and have made a fair number of presentations at
scientific symposia.
Am I a scientist?
A scientist is a person who does science. The degree isn't necessary.
Publication is, because you aren't really doing science until you publish.
.
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| User: "Danny Kodicek" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
02 Feb 2005 09:20:48 PM |
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"John Harshman" <jharshman.diespamdie@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:u7bMd.17$ZZ.6@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
A scientist is a person who does science. The degree isn't necessary.
Publication is, because you aren't really doing science until you publish.
So by that token, a person on a desert island conducting experiments isn't
doing science? Not convinced about this! I understand the point you're
making, but I think there's a distinction to be drawn between 'doing
science' and 'being a scientist'.
Danny
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| User: "Richard Forrest" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
02 Feb 2005 09:41:14 PM |
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Danny Kodicek wrote:
"John Harshman" <jharshman.diespamdie@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:u7bMd.17$ZZ.6@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
A scientist is a person who does science. The degree isn't
necessary.
Publication is, because you aren't really doing science until you
publish.
So by that token, a person on a desert island conducting experiments
isn't
doing science? Not convinced about this! I understand the point
you're
making, but I think there's a distinction to be drawn between 'doing
science' and 'being a scientist'.
Danny
I should add that I don't really think of myself as a scientist, but as
an architect who happens to be doing science rather than architecture.
Which sounds confused, and probably is.
On the other hand, I think that I do science rather well (hell, why
bugger about pretending to be modest) because I don't apply the label
scientist to myself and think that imposes a particular pattern of
methodology on how I approach my material. That has to come later, but
sometimes unexpected findings are made because the initially the
methodology is unusual, or even naive.
Somone once said that there are no stupid questions, only stupid
answers.
RF
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| User: "Eros" |
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| Title: Re: 2005 Creation Mega Conference |
03 Feb 2005 02:34:34 AM |
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Richard Forrest wrote:
Danny Kodicek wrote:
"John Harshman" <jharshman.diespamdie@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:u7bMd.17$ZZ.6@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
A scientist is a person who does science. The degree isn't
necessary.
Publication is, because you aren't really doing science until you
publish.
So by that token, a person on a desert island conducting
experiments
isn't
doing science? Not convinced about this! I understand the point
you're
making, but I think there's a distinction to be drawn between
'doing
science' and 'being a scientist'.
Danny
I should add that I don't really think of myself as a scientist, but
as
an architect who happens to be doing science rather than
architecture.
Which sounds confused, and probably is.
On the other hand, I think that I do science rather well (hell, why
bugger about pretending to be modest) because I don't apply the label
scientist to myself and think that imposes a particular pattern of
methodology on how I approach my material. That has to come later,
but
sometimes unexpected findings are made because the initially the
methodology is unusual, or even naive.
Somone once said that there are no stupid questions, only stupid
answers.
"If there is no such thing as a stupid question, then what kind of
questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask
questions?" -- Scott Adams
EROS.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Creationists use facts the same way a drunk uses a lightpost;- for
support instead of illumination." -- Robert Ingersoll
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