| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
17 Nov 2005 12:36:16 AM |
| Object: |
21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
This is not a J Young original but it is on the money.
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?id=9365
21 Ways to be a Good Democrat
You have to . be against capital punishment, but support abortion on demand.
.. believe that businesses create oppression and governments create
opportunity.
.. believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens are more of a
threat than U.S. nuclear weapons technology in the hands of Chinese and
North Korean communists.
.. believe that there was no art before federal funding.
.. believe that global temperatures are less affected by cyclical documented
changes in the earth's climate and more affected by soccer moms driving
SUVs.
.. believe that gender roles are artificial, but being homosexual is natural.
.. believe that the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of federal funding.
.. believe that the same teacher who can't teach 4th-graders how to read is
somehow qualified to teach those same kids about sex.
.. believe that hunters don't care about nature, but loony activists, who
have never been outside of San Francisco, do.
.. believe that self-esteem is more important that actually doing something
to earn it.
.. believe that Mel Gibson spent $25 million of is on money to make The
Passion of The Christ for financial gain only.
.. believe that the NRA is bad because it support certain parts of the
Constitution, while the ACLU is good because it supports certain parts of
the Constitution.
.. believe that taxes are too low, but ATM fees are too high.
.. believe that Margaret Sanger and Gloria Steinem are more important to
American history than Thomas Jefferson, Gen. Robert E. Lee and Thomas
Edison.
.. believe that standardized tests are racist but quotas and set-asides are
not.
.. believe that Hillary Clinton is normal and a very nice person.
.. believe that the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere in history
that it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.
.. believe conservatives telling the truth belong in jail, but a liar and a
sex offender belonged in the White House.
.. believe that homosexual parades displaying drag, transvestites, and
bestiality should be constitutionally protected, and manger scenes at
Christmas should be illegal.
.. believe that illegal Democratic Party funding by the Chinese government is
somehow in the best interest of the United States.
.. believe that this message is part of a vast, right-wing conspiracy.
.
|
|
| User: "Liz" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
19 Nov 2005 06:36:03 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:17:37 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
in news message <BFA48210.932F7%chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers who would
benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care? Certainly you're not
suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets, are you?
Virgil wrote:
No! Only behaving in a most unchristian way!
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
How do you think a Christian behaves?
Liz wrote:
Matthew 25 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty
and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me
in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and
you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a
stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of
the least of these, you did not do for me.'
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal
Healing? Are you talking a laying on of hands here or actual medical
care? I need some statistics for this claim.
Of course, I was not referring to "Churches and Synagogues", but I was
replying to your question of how I think a Christian behaves (or
should behave). I was talking directly about you. Your
generalization in order to deflect attention away from yourself is
noted.
and clothe
those in need than other groups. Particularly those Christians who take
tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the major denominations show
exactly how much goes to help the needy.
I believe everyone should have access to medical care. Do you?
Do non-believers give 10% of their income to help others? Or is this another
thing you think "taxpayers" should do?
My response to your question was about Christians and how they should
behave. This isn't about "non-believers". Why do you think you
should compare yourself to non-believers rather than following the
words of your Lord®?
Liz #658 BAAWA
They all agree on what their god wants. Each theist will tell you
that what the only true god wants, and what he, himself, wants, are
exactly the same. -- Al Klein
.
|
|
|
| User: "georgann" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
19 Nov 2005 03:06:00 PM |
|
|
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal
Liz wrote:
Healing? Are you talking a laying on of hands here or actual medical care?
I need some statistics for this claim.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
You know I was talking about supporting the medical needs of the needy and
not laying on of hands. Attempt to make another bogus argument noted.
Liz wrote:
Of course, I was not referring to "Churches and Synagogues", but I was
replying to your question of how I think a Christian behaves (or should
behave). I was talking directly about you. Your generalization in order to
deflect attention away from yourself is noted.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Then you still need to inform me of how you think Christians, including me,
should behave.
and clothe those in need than other groups. Particularly those Christians who
take tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the major denominations show
exactly how much goes to help the needy.
Liz wrote:
I believe everyone should have access to medical care. Do you?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
In the US we all HAVE access. There is no question of access to medical
care in the US - its a question of a sense of dependency on insurers,
government assistance and / or actual out of pocket expense.
People are not _refused_ health care in the US so the argument about
"access" is bogus. What you want is someone else - other than the patient -
insurance co., employer, taxpayers to pay for it.
Do non-believers give 10% of their income to help others? Or is this another
thing you think "taxpayers" should do?
Liz wrote:
My response to your question was about Christians and how they should behave.
This isn't about "non-believers". Why do you think you should compare
yourself to non-believers rather than following the words of your Lord®?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
I really don't think you're a very good judge of what the words of my LORD
are about.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
Iglesia ni Cristo A CULT
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i20.html#cult
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 10:55:30 AM |
|
|
In <BFA4FDE7.936B9%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Liz wrote:
I believe everyone should have access to medical care. Do you?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
In the US we all HAVE access. There is no question of access to medical
care in the US - its a question of a sense of dependency on insurers,
government assistance and / or actual out of pocket expense.
You are *so evil.
How do you have access to health care if you don't have the money and
don't have insurance? Magic?
People are not _refused_ health care in the US so the argument about
"access" is bogus. What you want is someone else - other than the patient
- insurance co., employer, taxpayers to pay for it.
People are refused health care all the time. Or haven't you ever tried
filling a prescription without cash or an insurance card? How 'bout you
try it sometime?
Hell, you can be refused when you *have insurance. I know, I still have
refusal letters sent to my roommate (for whom I was a caregiver) from
pharmaceutical companies, pharmacies, you name it.
I *seriously hope you come down with something major. An illness or
injury. Something treatable but *very expensive. You deserve the
experience you evil *****.
Oh, by the way, stupid woman, the system we have in place ends up costing
*you more than a Canadian system would. The uninsured/under-insured
eventually end up in the ER where what could have been a bill of a few
hundred bucks becomes one of thousands.
And *you pay that bill. We all do in higher costs, insurance rates, and
taxes. 'Course, you *could cut that bill down by letting the bastards die
on the streets.
(As Jesus commanded)
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Liz" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 01:05:07 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:06:00 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
in news message <BFA4FDE7.936B9%chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal
Liz wrote:
Healing? Are you talking a laying on of hands here or actual medical care?
I need some statistics for this claim.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
You know I was talking about supporting the medical needs of the needy and
not laying on of hands. Attempt to make another bogus argument noted.
I still need some statistics for your claim that Churches and
Synagogues heal more people than any other group. I wasn't making an
argument, I was questioning the veracity of your statement. Failure
to provide any support for your statement is noted.
Liz wrote:
Of course, I was not referring to "Churches and Synagogues", but I was
replying to your question of how I think a Christian behaves (or should
behave). I was talking directly about you. Your generalization in order to
deflect attention away from yourself is noted.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Then you still need to inform me of how you think Christians, including me,
should behave.
I gave you a Bible passage that spells out that you should treat the
least of society in the same manner that you would treat your Lord®.
If the Bible is in error, then I suppose that Christians aren't
supposed to behave in that manner. It is so difficult to tell because
most Christians pick and choose the passages in the Bible that they
feel obligated to follow. <shrug>
and clothe those in need than other groups. Particularly those Christians who
take tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the major denominations show
exactly how much goes to help the needy.
Liz wrote:
I believe everyone should have access to medical care. Do you?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
In the US we all HAVE access. There is no question of access to medical
care in the US - its a question of a sense of dependency on insurers,
government assistance and / or actual out of pocket expense.
http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/The-Uninsured-and-Their-Access-to-Health-Care-Fact-Sheet-6.pdf
See page 2 of the above link.
~
Over 40% of non-elderly uninsured adults have no regular source of
health care, and coupled with the fear of high medical bills often
forgo or delay needed care. . . .
Delaying or not receiving treatment can lead to more serious illnesses
and avoidable health problems. The uninsured are less likely to
receive preventative care and more likely to be hospitalized for
conditions that could have been avoided. . . . Consequently, uninsured
cancer patients are diagnosed later and die earlier than those with
insurance.
Researchers estimate that a reduction in mortality of 5% to 15% could
be achieved if the uninsured could receive continuous health coverage.
The Institute of Medicine estimates that at least 18,000 Americans die
prematurely each year solely because they lack health coverage.
~
I suggest you read the entire .pdf.
People are not _refused_ health care in the US so the argument about
"access" is bogus. What you want is someone else - other than the patient -
insurance co., employer, taxpayers to pay for it.
I'm talking about those who can't afford to pay for insurance.
Should they go without health care? You seem to think that they
should go without because they are too poor to pay for their own and
don't work for an employer that provides health coverage. As
explained in the article, the "safety net" isn't working. Aren't
18,000 preventable deaths enough? How many preventable deaths should
be tolerated? Or it is the poor person's fault for being poor and
they just should expect to die earlier than those who can afford
health insurance?
Do non-believers give 10% of their income to help others? Or is this another
thing you think "taxpayers" should do?
Liz wrote:
My response to your question was about Christians and how they should behave.
This isn't about "non-believers". Why do you think you should compare
yourself to non-believers rather than following the words of your Lord®?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
I really don't think you're a very good judge of what the words of my LORD
are about.
Plainly reading those words, "what you do for the least of these, you
do for me" doesn't present much of a problem for the literate. What
do you think that passage means?
Liz #658 BAAWA
4th Law: Most people cannot imagine a god morally superior
to themselves; if you want to know what such a person would
do if they had ultimate power, ask them about their deity.
-- Abner Mintz
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
19 Nov 2005 06:54:02 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:17:37 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers who would
benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care? Certainly you're not
suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets, are you?
Virgil wrote:
No! Only behaving in a most unchristian way!
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
How do you think a Christian behaves?
Liz wrote:
Matthew 25 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty
and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me
in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and
you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a
stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of
the least of these, you did not do for me.'
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal and clothe
those in need than other groups. Particularly those Christians who take
tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the major denominations show
exactly how much goes to help the needy.
No they don't.
Governments do almost all of it. Charities do very very little and
what they do do, is extremely inefficient as almost all of the money
is wasted on trying to raise it.
Do non-believers give 10% of their income to help others? Or is this another
thing you think "taxpayers" should do?
Non believers support charity in the form of taxes as they should.
People should not have to be judged in order to get help.
You on the other hand have horrible priorities. You don't think you
should have to help the entire group - you want to be able to pick and
choose and let lots and lots of people suffer so that you don't have
to take the chance that someone you think shouldn't get help get's it
anyway.
You are shameless and obviously don't really care about humanity.
.
|
|
|
| User: "georgann" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
19 Nov 2005 04:18:15 PM |
|
|
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal and clothe
those in need than other groups. Particularly those Christians who take
tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the major denominations show
exactly how much goes to help the needy.
Kate wrote:
No they don't. Governments do almost all of it. Charities do very very little
and what they do do, is extremely inefficient as almost all of the money is
wasted on trying to raise it.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Let's work with a real world example, shall we...
"" Private donations total nearly $2.7 billion just 11 weeks after Hurricane
Katrina struck, according to the Red Cross and Indiana University's Center
on Philanthropy ...""
That is not "government" giving via taxes. That's individuals and churches
giving.
You were saying?
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
Iglesia ni Cristo A CULT
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i20.html#cult
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 10:39:52 AM |
|
|
In <BFA50ED6.93734%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal and
clothe those in need than other groups. Particularly those Christians
who take tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the major
denominations show exactly how much goes to help the needy.
Kate wrote:
No they don't. Governments do almost all of it. Charities do very very
little and what they do do, is extremely inefficient as almost all of
the money is wasted on trying to raise it.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Let's work with a real world example, shall we...
"" Private donations total nearly $2.7 billion just 11 weeks after
Hurricane Katrina struck, according to the Red Cross and Indiana
University's Center on Philanthropy ...""
That is not "government" giving via taxes. That's individuals and
churches giving.
You were saying?
She was saying "charities do very little." Yes, 2.7 billion sounds like a
lot (and the public can be very generous when disaster strikes) but the
government's share is already 62 billion. You seem to think one
*twenty-third of that amount is somehow the majority share...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "L. Michael Roberts" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 01:08:55 PM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <BFA50ED6.93734%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
<snip>
That is not "government" giving via taxes. That's individuals and
churches giving.
You were saying?
She was saying "charities do very little." Yes, 2.7 billion sounds like a
lot (and the public can be very generous when disaster strikes) but the
government's share is already 62 billion. You seem to think one
*twenty-third of that amount is somehow the majority share...
Remember that some religions like the Mormons have spent *millions* of
their parishioner's dollars [raised tax-free] in political campaigns to
deny some citizens their civil rights. Similarly, if all the money
being spent on political consultants, advertising, paid signature
gathers [who use deceptive bait-&-switch techniques], printing, etc., by
the "Christians" in Mass. for their anti-same-sex marriage initiative
were to be diverted to hurricane relief, the world would be a better place.
Until the religionists can show that they are actually putting their
money towards the charitable ends they claim are part of their beliefs -
instead of politics, advertising, legal fees to fight evolution and
civil rights [amongst other non-charitable activities] - they are just
hypocrites!
--
+==================== L. Michael Roberts ======================+
This represents my personal opinion and NOT Company policy
Goderich, Ont, Canada. To reply, post a request for my valid E-mail
"Life is a sexually transmitted, terminal, condition"
+================================================================+
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 05:46:16 PM |
|
|
In <_sGdnZRE5ohaVB3enZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@golden.net>, "L. Michael Roberts"
<L_Michael_Roberts@nospam.com> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <BFA50ED6.93734%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
<snip>
That is not "government" giving via taxes. That's individuals and
churches giving.
You were saying?
She was saying "charities do very little." Yes, 2.7 billion sounds like
a lot (and the public can be very generous when disaster strikes) but
the government's share is already 62 billion. You seem to think one
*twenty-third of that amount is somehow the majority share...
Remember that some religions like the Mormons have spent *millions* of
their parishioner's dollars [raised tax-free] in political campaigns to
deny some citizens their civil rights. Similarly, if all the money being
spent on political consultants, advertising, paid signature gathers [who
use deceptive bait-&-switch techniques], printing, etc., by the
"Christians" in Mass. for their anti-same-sex marriage initiative were to
be diverted to hurricane relief, the world would be a better place.
Until the religionists can show that they are actually putting their
money towards the charitable ends they claim are part of their beliefs -
instead of politics, advertising, legal fees to fight evolution and civil
rights [amongst other non-charitable activities] - they are just
hypocrites!
The amazing amounts of money being poured into political fights and
campaigns and buildings and satellite networks and such show...
Huh. I believe it was summed up as "by their fruits you will know them."
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 09:49:02 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:18:15 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal and clothe
those in need than other groups. Particularly those Christians who take
tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the major denominations show
exactly how much goes to help the needy.
Kate wrote:
No they don't. Governments do almost all of it. Charities do very very little
and what they do do, is extremely inefficient as almost all of the money is
wasted on trying to raise it.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Let's work with a real world example, shall we...
"" Private donations total nearly $2.7 billion just 11 weeks after Hurricane
Katrina struck, according to the Red Cross and Indiana University's Center
on Philanthropy ...""
That is not "government" giving via taxes. That's individuals and churches
giving.
You were saying?
Yes, that the government spending dwarfed that to almost nothing.
And they didn't have to spend 90 percent of the money given on
marketing.
You were saying?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Andrealphus" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
19 Nov 2005 07:00:36 AM |
|
|
In News 43a61f3c.377365406@news-west.newscene.com,, Kate at
cobalt@newscene.com, typed this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:17:37 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers
who would benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care?
Certainly you're not suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets,
are you?
Virgil wrote:
No! Only behaving in a most unchristian way!
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
How do you think a Christian behaves?
Liz wrote:
Matthew 25 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was
thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and
you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe
me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or
thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and
did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do
for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal and
clothe those in need than other groups. Particularly those
Christians who take tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the
major denominations show exactly how much goes to help the needy.
No they don't.
Governments do almost all of it. Charities do very very little and
what they do do, is extremely inefficient as almost all of the money
is wasted on trying to raise it.
Do non-believers give 10% of their income to help others? Or is this
another thing you think "taxpayers" should do?
Non believers support charity in the form of taxes as they should.
I don't agree with Georgann, but taxes do not equal charity. Charity is
chosen, and freely given. Taxes are government extortion through the
threat of force.
Huge difference.
Otherwise I agree with your post.
People should not have to be judged in order to get help.
You on the other hand have horrible priorities. You don't think you
should have to help the entire group - you want to be able to pick and
choose and let lots and lots of people suffer so that you don't have
to take the chance that someone you think shouldn't get help get's it
anyway.
You are shameless and obviously don't really care about humanity.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 10:45:17 AM |
|
|
In <UlFff.2328$N45.512@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD> wrote:
I don't agree with Georgann, but taxes do not equal charity. Charity is
chosen, and freely given. Taxes are government extortion through the
threat of force.
Huge difference.
But, fundamentally, georgann can't see the point of doing something that
doesn't benefit herself (directly and immediately).
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the satellite
networks, the political action committees, the non-stop anti-gay and
anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and actually FEED people,
fine. If they actually want to end welfare, all they have to do is make it
*unnecessary and it'll go away.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
21 Nov 2005 04:00:22 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings,
the satellite networks, the political action committees,
the non-stop anti-gay and anti-abortion lobbying (among
other things), and actually FEED people, fine. If they
actually want to end welfare, all they have to do is make
it *unnecessary and it'll go away.
I've pointed out the same thing for abortion countless times.
Abortion is a symptom. The problem is unwanted pregnancies.
Eliminate unwanted pregnancies and you've eliminated
abortion.
Problem is, the so-called "Christians" couldn't be less
interested in eliminating unwanted pregnancies. Sex
education? They're against it! Birth control? They hate
it!
It's about controlling people. Abortion is just an
excuse for them. The real goal has always been to
control people, make them behave EXACTLY as
the "chosen few" decide they should behave.
Heck, they're even fighting a new vaccine that would
save women from cervical cancer, because the virus
that causes cervical cancer is sexually transmitted, and
they pretend it would encourage woman to become
sluts.
Of course, "sexually transmitted" means it's the man
that's giving it to them. So any woman can "Save
herself for marriage," and, so long as her new husband
is "Experienced," she could still get cervical cancer.
But who gives a ***** about women?
Certainly not the so-called "Christians."
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "georgann" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 04:55:50 PM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the satellite
networks, the political action committees, the non-stop anti-gay and
anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and actually FEED people, fine.
If they actually want to end welfare, all they have to do is make it
*unnecessary and it'll go away.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Its none of your business what groups do with their own money. Or do you
think you have rights to it all.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
Iglesia ni Cristo A CULT
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i20.html#cult
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 05:26:39 PM |
|
|
In <BFA66925.93EF9%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the satellite
networks, the political action committees, the non-stop anti-gay and
anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and actually FEED people,
fine. If they actually want to end welfare, all they have to do is make
it *unnecessary and it'll go away.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Its none of your business what groups do with their own money. Or do you
think you have rights to it all.
Oh tell it to Jesus.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 09:47:02 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:55:50 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the satellite
networks, the political action committees, the non-stop anti-gay and
anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and actually FEED people, fine.
If they actually want to end welfare, all they have to do is make it
*unnecessary and it'll go away.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Its none of your business what groups do with their own money. Or do you
think you have rights to it all.
You were the one who brought it up as justification. I guess you
should have kept your mouth shut if you didn't want that quality
judged.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 08:20:36 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:55:50 GMT, in alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in
<BFA66925.93EF9%chenault@mindspring.com>:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the satellite
networks, the political action committees, the non-stop anti-gay and
anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and actually FEED people, fine.
If they actually want to end welfare, all they have to do is make it
*unnecessary and it'll go away.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Its none of your business what groups do with their own money. Or do you
think you have rights to it all.
It depends. Are they given tax breaks?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "magilla" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
20 Nov 2005 10:21:59 PM |
|
|
georgann wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the satellite
networks, the political action committees, the non-stop anti-gay and
anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and actually FEED people, fine.
If they actually want to end welfare, all they have to do is make it
*unnecessary and it'll go away.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Its none of your business what groups do with their own money. Or do you
think you have rights to it all.
You silly blit. OF COURSE its our business. Evey non-profit or
religious group has to file as such, and the papers are a matter of
public record.
Do you object to that?
Chris
.
|
|
|
| User: "georgann" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
21 Nov 2005 06:24:07 AM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the satellite
networks, the political action committees, the non-stop anti-gay and
anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and actually FEED people, fine.
If they actually want to end welfare, all they have to do is make it
*unnecessary and it'll go away.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Its none of your business what groups do with their own money. Or do you
think you have rights to it all.
magilla wrote:
You silly blit. OF COURSE its our business. Evey non-profit or religious group
has to file as such, and the papers are a matter of public record.
Do you object to that?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
I know all such groups must file tax returns. I'm saying its none of your
business what activities those same groups CHOOSE to do with their funds.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
Iglesia ni Cristo A CULT
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i20.html#cult
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
21 Nov 2005 10:11:11 AM |
|
|
In <BFA72695.9434E%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the
satellite networks, the political action committees, the non-stop
anti-gay and anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and actually
FEED people, fine. If they actually want to end welfare, all they have
to do is make it *unnecessary and it'll go away.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Its none of your business what groups do with their own money. Or do
you think you have rights to it all.
magilla wrote:
You silly blit. OF COURSE its our business. Evey non-profit or religious
group has to file as such, and the papers are a matter of public record.
Do you object to that?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
I know all such groups must file tax returns. I'm saying its none of your
business what activities those same groups CHOOSE to do with their funds.
Actually, it is. If they are abusing their tax status, they can not just
lose that status but criminal charges can be brought.
Just ask Jim Bakker...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Andrealphus" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
21 Nov 2005 06:43:39 AM |
|
|
In News BFA72695.9434E%chenault@mindspring.com,, georgann at
chenault@mindspring.com, typed this:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
Any day the churches want to give up the fancy buildings, the
satellite networks, the political action committees, the non-stop
anti-gay and anti-abortion lobbying (among other things), and
actually FEED people, fine. If they actually want to end welfare,
all they have to do is make it *unnecessary and it'll go away.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Its none of your business what groups do with their own money. Or
do you think you have rights to it all.
magilla wrote:
You silly blit. OF COURSE its our business. Evey non-profit or
religious group has to file as such, and the papers are a matter of
public record.
Do you object to that?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
I know all such groups must file tax returns.
I'm saying its none of
your business what activities those same groups CHOOSE to do with
their funds.
Actually, it is our business. These groups and organizations are granted
non-profit status for specific reasons. Whether that reason is religion, or
charitable, or any of a number of other reasons. If they are using their
revenue for purposes other than the reason they were granted their tax
exemption, then they are in violation of their tax exempt status, and the
law as well.
That makes it the public's business.
Now they can do whatever they want with thier money, the very second they
give up their tax exempt status.
--
Question with boldness even the existence of god; because if there be
one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded
fear. - Thomas Jefferson
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Kate " |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
19 Nov 2005 10:27:01 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:00:36 GMT, "Andrealphus"
<NOREALEMAIL10@THISADDRESS.FOAD> wrote:
In News 43a61f3c.377365406@news-west.newscene.com,, Kate at
cobalt@newscene.com, typed this:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:17:37 GMT, georgann <chenault@mindspring.com>
wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers
who would benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care?
Certainly you're not suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets,
are you?
Virgil wrote:
No! Only behaving in a most unchristian way!
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
How do you think a Christian behaves?
Liz wrote:
Matthew 25 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was
thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and
you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe
me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or
thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and
did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do
for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
And far and away Churches and Synagogues give more to feed, heal and
clothe those in need than other groups. Particularly those
Christians who take tithing seriously. And the budgets of all the
major denominations show exactly how much goes to help the needy.
No they don't.
Governments do almost all of it. Charities do very very little and
what they do do, is extremely inefficient as almost all of the money
is wasted on trying to raise it.
Do non-believers give 10% of their income to help others? Or is this
another thing you think "taxpayers" should do?
Non believers support charity in the form of taxes as they should.
I don't agree with Georgann, but taxes do not equal charity. Charity is
chosen, and freely given. Taxes are government extortion through the
threat of force.
Huge difference.
Otherwise I agree with your post.
Your right - badly worded.
Help for all who need it in the form of taxes rather than the
judgemental tempermental expensive help using charity.
People should not have to be judged in order to get help.
You on the other hand have horrible priorities. You don't think you
should have to help the entire group - you want to be able to pick and
choose and let lots and lots of people suffer so that you don't have
to take the chance that someone you think shouldn't get help get's it
anyway.
You are shameless and obviously don't really care about humanity.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "David Jensen" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
18 Nov 2005 01:18:14 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:35:53 GMT, in alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in
<BFA326C8.92B06%chenault@mindspring.com>:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers who would
benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care? Certainly you're not
suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets, are you?
Virgil wrote:
No! Only behaving in a most unchristian way!
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
How do you think a Christian behaves?
In the way that Jesus taught people to behave.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Olrik" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
18 Nov 2005 11:23:13 PM |
|
|
georgann wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers who would
benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care? Certainly you're not
suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets, are you?
Virgil wrote:
No! Only behaving in a most unchristian way!
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
How do you think a Christian behaves?
Like most ordinary persons. That excludes fundies like you.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
Iglesia ni Cristo A CULT
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i20.html#cult
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mimi Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
19 Nov 2005 12:43:15 AM |
|
|
Olrik wrote:
georgann wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers who
would
benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care? Certainly you're
not
suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets, are you?
Virgil wrote:
No! Only behaving in a most unchristian way!
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
How do you think a Christian behaves?
Like most ordinary persons. That excludes fundies like you.
:)
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mimi Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
17 Nov 2005 06:35:33 PM |
|
|
Virgil wrote:
In article <BFA25C1A.92954%chenault@mindspring.com>,
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
Mike Painter wrote:
Caring for others is a christian saying but doing it is not.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
But apparently unforgiving (since whenever), which I understood was
also a part of Christian doctrine.
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers who would
benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care? Certainly you're not
suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets, are you?
No! Only behaving in a most unchristian way!
you are too kind, she's a selfish *****. (no I don't get medicaid my
health insurance was paid for with 22 years of my husband's life)
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "MarkA" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
17 Nov 2005 05:09:11 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:11:07 +0000, georgann wrote:
. Ninure Saunders wrote:
Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Only a democrat couldn't know this is true.
Mike Painter wrote:
Caring for others is a christian saying but doing it is not.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
How did making taxpayers financially responsible for everyone's health
care become synonymous with "caring"?
Kate wrote:
Yeah, because obviously you don't want to shoulder part of the burden,
you just want to say you did.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers who would
benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care? Certainly you're not
suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets, are you?
FYI, georgann, virtually everyone in America gets the *emergency* health
care they need. It is illegal for a hospital ER to turn someone out in
the street to die, just because they have no money. We all pay for those
services. The question is whether it would be more cost effective to
provide *preventive* care for people with no money, so they don't have to
wait until their problems are more severe (and expensive). Some people
believe that if the insurance companies took the money they spend to
figure out who not to insure, and just insured everyone across the board,
overall costs would be lower, and quality would be higher. Certainly, the
current system needs a major overhaul.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
|
|
|
| User: "georgann" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
18 Nov 2005 05:56:40 AM |
|
|
Kate wrote:
Yeah, because obviously you don't want to shoulder part of the burden, you
just want to say you did.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Am I to assume you are among the lesser (perhaps non) taxpayers who would
benefit unfairly from taxpayer funded health care? Certainly you're not
suggesting I'm in the higher tax brackets, are you?
MarkA wrote:
FYI, georgann, virtually everyone in America gets the *emergency* health care
they need. It is illegal for a hospital ER to turn someone out in the street
to die, just because they have no money. We all pay for those services. The
question is whether it would be more cost effective to provide *preventive*
care for people with no money, so they don't have to wait until their problems
are more severe (and expensive). Some people believe that if the insurance
companies took the money they spend to figure out who not to insure, and just
insured everyone across the board, overall costs would be lower, and quality
would be higher. Certainly, the current system needs a major overhaul.
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Without disagreeing about the emergency room scenario, I strongly disagree
with the idea that the current system needs a major overhaul. Health care
in the US is the best in the world but the inability of individuals to
secure individual health care plans at reasonable (group) rates is
scandalous.
Access to this excellent health care has never been at issue. It is NOT the
inability of people to receive this care but the costs that are the problem.
And the costs are driven by the lack of tort reform, physicians being forced
to practice extremely defensive medicine and a congress (many/most? of whom
are attorneys) unwilling to take on tort reform - limiting the awards in
suits against pharmaceutical companies and physicians. Insurance companies
offer plans to the largest groups because of their history but even that is
changing as the costs of large group plans are becoming so expensive that it
actually puts downward pressure on employment.
As our society continues to realize a massive growth in small businesses
(part of the American Dream) and the shrinking of larger, inefficient
corporations or manufacturing businesses as technology permits, the pressure
is on to bring individual health care plans into the affordable range. This
will require tort reform and a requirement that insurers permit individuals
to purchase into a plan of their choice at the same cost as a large group.
We don't need to make physicians indentured servants in order to accomplish
our goals.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
Iglesia ni Cristo A CULT
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i20.html#cult
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
18 Nov 2005 06:22:27 PM |
|
|
In <BFA32BA7.92B0A%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
Health care in the US is the best in the world
Except it fails on almost every front. People like you keep *saying "best
in the world" but that's just a mantra to keep reality away. We do have
one of the best emergency care systems on the planet, that's true. But our
preventative and basic care is a disaster. And letting millions fall out
of the system is insane. We're accumulating a "breeding ground" for new
epidemics.
Elective surgery--which is highly profitable--is booming as is life
extension for the elderly (well over half the country's wealth is
concentrated in their hands *and they are government subsidized). Child
care and basic care are imploding.
We're going to pay one way or the other.
It's idiots like you that can't figure out that not only is basic health
care for everybody the *right thing to do but it's the *sane thing to do.
It's self-defense. Having a large pool of unhealthy people in your
population is asking for deadly consequences for everybody. Consequences
that even the wealth of Bill Gates may not be able to save you from.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Forgotten Already
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H1233272C
Feds are treating Louisiana like enemy
"...it may be that they may have written us off."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?O21E51C1C
http://www.nola.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Olrik" |
|
| Title: Re: 21 Ways to be a Good Democrat |
18 Nov 2005 11:33:11 PM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <BFA32BA7.92B0A%chenault@mindspring.com>, georgann
<chenault@mindspring.com> wrote:
Health care in the US is the best in the world
Except it fails on almost every front. People like you keep *saying "best
in the world" but that's just a mantra to keep reality away. We do have
one of the best emergency care systems on the planet, that's true. But our
preventative and basic care is a disaster. And letting millions fall out
of the system is insane. We're accumulating a "breeding ground" for new
epidemics.
Elective surgery--which is highly profitable--is booming as is life
extension for the elderly (well over half the country's wealth is
concentrated in their hands *and they are government subsidized). Child
care and basic care are imploding.
We're going to pay one way or the other.
It's idiots like you that can't figure out that not only is basic health
care for everybody the *right thing to do but it's the *sane thing to do.
It's self-defense. Having a large pool of unhealthy people in your
population is asking for deadly consequences for everybody. Consequences
that even the wealth of Bill Gates may not be able to save you from.
Excellent post, Mark.
For cutting edge treatments, the USA is great (I'm canadian, BTW). But
for day-to-day care, prevention and common procedures and surgery, I
prefer our system : there are no worries, no forms to fill, no
reclamations, no fights with the insurance company about coverage, etc.
Show your card, and you're in.
Our system is not perfect of course. The most common beef is that
sometimes you have to wait a bit for some treatments.
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
