| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bear" |
| Date: |
09 Oct 2005 08:45:10 PM |
| Object: |
666 |
"Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to stiffen
the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
"Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes often
choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation to the
persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began with Irenaeus
at the end of the second century. Correctly understood as a Jewish
resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later Christian suffering
at all. Its core elements - the several alternative apocalyptic endings -
almost certainly were in circulation in Palestine (particularly Galilee) in
the mid-years of the first century, where such literature was popular. When
was it written? The book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but more
precisely than any other book of the bible:
""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the
beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred
threescore and six. (13.18)
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is
not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the
beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and
goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
"The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a century
scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria' resolves the name
Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without vowels), into 666. Unlike
English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet have a numerical equivalent,
which opens the door to all sorts of esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels
credits a fellow German with the resolution of the riddle:
"This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is Nero.
The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew spelling of the
Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by means of the Talmud and
Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was found on coins of Nero's time
minted in the eastern half of the empire. And so -- n (nun)=50; r
(resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n (nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s (samech)=60; r
(resh)=200. Total 666. If we take as a basis the Latin spelling Nero Caesar
the second nun=50 disappears and we get 666 - 50 = 616, which is Irenaeus's
reading." (On The History of Early Christianity, III)
"The seven kings referred to are the emperors of Rome. At the time of
writing, five are past ('are fallen' - Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula,
Claudius, Nero), one rules still (Galba - who ruled from June 6, 68 to
January 15, 69), and the prophesy is made that only one other will rule
before the End. The final sentence resolves again into Nero. Could he be 'is
and is not' (alive then dead)? How could one 'of the seven' be the eighth as
well? The answer is that the crisis of the year 67/68 (the so-called year of
four emperors) lasted long enough for rumors to spread that Nero had not
died at his own hand, but had fled to Persia, had raised an army and would
reclaim the throne from the interloper Vittelius. Seemingly confirming this
turn of events was the appearance of an impostor on the island of Kithnos
(Thermia) - about a hundred and thirty miles from Patmos - claiming to be
Nero.
"Revelation, and other fiery tracts of the same genre, no doubt strengthened
the resolve of first century Jewish resistance. The rebels failed, as did
the Apocalypse in its prediction of the imminent fall of Rome and of the
Millennial Reign that would follow. Many early Christians rejected the book
outright, attributing authorship and the doctrine of an 'earthly kingdom' to
a late first century Jewish Egyptian heretic called Cerinthus.
"To the chagrin of many Christians ever since, Revelation nonetheless
sneaked its way into the bible, tucked away at the back and - horror fiction
apart - largely forgotten." (Kenneth Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry Jews)
.
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| User: "me" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
12 Oct 2005 11:45:02 PM |
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"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote:
<snip>
Seemingly confirming this turn of events was the appearance of an impostor on the
island of Kithnos (Thermia) - about a hundred and thirty miles from Patmos - claiming to
be Nero.
<snip>
He did not claim to be Nero. Vespasian sent investigators to question him (71 ad)
because it was thought that he might be Nero. They concluded that he was
"harmless".
Vespasian had him investigated because the reports that reached Rome said that he
was claiming to be God - and Nero liked to "play God".
He was Mark of Naxos.
He was Mark.
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| User: "havoc" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
02 Nov 2005 12:01:46 AM |
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Bear wrote:
"Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to stiffen
the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
"Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes often
choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation to the
persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began with Irenaeus
at the end of the second century. Correctly understood as a Jewish
resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later Christian suffering
at all. Its core elements - the several alternative apocalyptic endings -
almost certainly were in circulation in Palestine (particularly Galilee) in
the mid-years of the first century, where such literature was popular. When
was it written? The book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but more
precisely than any other book of the bible:
""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the
beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred
threescore and six. (13.18)
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is
not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the
beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and
goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
"The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a century
scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria' resolves the name
Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without vowels), into 666. Unlike
English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet have a numerical equivalent,
which opens the door to all sorts of esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels
credits a fellow German with the resolution of the riddle:
"This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is Nero.
The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew spelling of the
Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by means of the Talmud and
Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was found on coins of Nero's time
minted in the eastern half of the empire. And so -- n (nun)=50; r
(resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n (nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s (samech)=60; r
(resh)=200. Total 666. If we take as a basis the Latin spelling Nero Caesar
the second nun=50 disappears and we get 666 - 50 = 616, which is Irenaeus's
reading." (On The History of Early Christianity, III)
"The seven kings referred to are the emperors of Rome. At the time of
writing, five are past ('are fallen' - Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula,
Claudius, Nero), one rules still (Galba - who ruled from June 6, 68 to
January 15, 69), and the prophesy is made that only one other will rule
before the End. The final sentence resolves again into Nero. Could he be 'is
and is not' (alive then dead)? How could one 'of the seven' be the eighth as
well? The answer is that the crisis of the year 67/68 (the so-called year of
four emperors) lasted long enough for rumors to spread that Nero had not
died at his own hand, but had fled to Persia, had raised an army and would
reclaim the throne from the interloper Vittelius. Seemingly confirming this
turn of events was the appearance of an impostor on the island of Kithnos
(Thermia) - about a hundred and thirty miles from Patmos - claiming to be
Nero.
"Revelation, and other fiery tracts of the same genre, no doubt strengthened
the resolve of first century Jewish resistance. The rebels failed, as did
the Apocalypse in its prediction of the imminent fall of Rome and of the
Millennial Reign that would follow. Many early Christians rejected the book
outright, attributing authorship and the doctrine of an 'earthly kingdom' to
a late first century Jewish Egyptian heretic called Cerinthus.
"To the chagrin of many Christians ever since, Revelation nonetheless
sneaked its way into the bible, tucked away at the back and - horror fiction
apart - largely forgotten." (Kenneth Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry Jews)
Nothing to do other than it is paralleled completely or near completely
by the Prophet Daniel. It prophecies of history to come - centered
around three specific kingdoms. It is in no way an early tract meant
for the first century - it is specific and points directly at the end
times, the Antichrist and the Roman Catholic Church. I can understand
your extreme desire to deny this; but, it is an unavoidable truth.
Worse, is the treatment recieved by the Harlot by God. God eggs on
the inhabitants of the earth in destroying the Harlot (that would be
ya'll) - returning to her double that which she poured out upon the
earth. Literal message "God to gates of Hell: go get her!" Like it or
not that is the prophecy. If you're expecting God to stand up for ya,
He's already spoken His peace on the matter...
.
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| User: "Bear" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
02 Nov 2005 12:05:23 AM |
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"havoc" wrote
: Bear wrote:
: > "Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to
stiffen
: > the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
: >
: > "Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes
often
: > choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation to the
: > persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began with
Irenaeus
: > at the end of the second century. Correctly understood as a Jewish
: > resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later Christian
suffering
: > at all. Its core elements - the several alternative apocalyptic
endings -
: > almost certainly were in circulation in Palestine (particularly Galilee)
in
: > the mid-years of the first century, where such literature was popular.
When
: > was it written? The book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but
more
: > precisely than any other book of the bible:
: >
: > ""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
the
: > beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred
: > threescore and six. (13.18)
: >
: > "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other
is
: > not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And
the
: > beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
and
: > goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
: >
: > "The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a
century
: > scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria' resolves the
name
: > Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without vowels), into 666. Unlike
: > English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet have a numerical equivalent,
: > which opens the door to all sorts of esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels
: > credits a fellow German with the resolution of the riddle:
: >
: > "This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is
Nero.
: > The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew spelling of the
: > Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by means of the Talmud
and
: > Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was found on coins of Nero's
time
: > minted in the eastern half of the empire. And so -- n (nun)=50; r
: > (resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n (nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s (samech)=60; r
: > (resh)=200. Total 666. If we take as a basis the Latin spelling Nero
Caesar
: > the second nun=50 disappears and we get 666 - 50 = 616, which is
Irenaeus's
: > reading." (On The History of Early Christianity, III)
: >
: > "The seven kings referred to are the emperors of Rome. At the time of
: > writing, five are past ('are fallen' - Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula,
: > Claudius, Nero), one rules still (Galba - who ruled from June 6, 68 to
: > January 15, 69), and the prophesy is made that only one other will rule
: > before the End. The final sentence resolves again into Nero. Could he be
'is
: > and is not' (alive then dead)? How could one 'of the seven' be the
eighth as
: > well? The answer is that the crisis of the year 67/68 (the so-called
year of
: > four emperors) lasted long enough for rumors to spread that Nero had not
: > died at his own hand, but had fled to Persia, had raised an army and
would
: > reclaim the throne from the interloper Vittelius. Seemingly confirming
this
: > turn of events was the appearance of an impostor on the island of
Kithnos
: > (Thermia) - about a hundred and thirty miles from Patmos - claiming to
be
: > Nero.
: >
: > "Revelation, and other fiery tracts of the same genre, no doubt
strengthened
: > the resolve of first century Jewish resistance. The rebels failed, as
did
: > the Apocalypse in its prediction of the imminent fall of Rome and of the
: > Millennial Reign that would follow. Many early Christians rejected the
book
: > outright, attributing authorship and the doctrine of an 'earthly
kingdom' to
: > a late first century Jewish Egyptian heretic called Cerinthus.
: >
: > "To the chagrin of many Christians ever since, Revelation nonetheless
: > sneaked its way into the bible, tucked away at the back and - horror
fiction
: > apart - largely forgotten." (Kenneth Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry Jews)
: >
: >
: Nothing to do other than it is paralleled completely or near completely
: by the Prophet Daniel. It prophecies of history to come - centered
: around three specific kingdoms. It is in no way an early tract meant
: for the first century - it is specific and points directly at the end
: times, the Antichrist and the Roman Catholic Church. I can understand
: your extreme desire to deny this; but, it is an unavoidable truth.
: Worse, is the treatment recieved by the Harlot by God. God eggs on
: the inhabitants of the earth in destroying the Harlot (that would be
: ya'll) - returning to her double that which she poured out upon the
: earth. Literal message "God to gates of Hell: go get her!" Like it or
: not that is the prophecy. If you're expecting God to stand up for ya,
: He's already spoken His peace on the matter...
Why would I expect something non-existent to stand up for me?
--
Bear
There but for circumstances go I.
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
02 Nov 2005 12:15:21 PM |
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havoc wrote:
Bear wrote:
"Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to
stiffen the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
"Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes
often choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation
to the persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began
with Irenaeus at the end of the second century. Correctly understood
as a Jewish resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later
Christian suffering at all. Its core elements - the several
alternative apocalyptic endings - almost certainly were in circulation
in Palestine (particularly Galilee) in the mid-years of the first
century, where such literature was popular. When was it written? The
book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but more precisely than
any other book of the bible:
""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six
hundred threescore and six. (13.18)
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other
is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of
the seven, and goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
"The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a
century scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria'
resolves the name Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without
vowels), into 666. Unlike English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet
have a numerical equivalent, which opens the door to all sorts of
esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels credits a fellow German with the
resolution of the riddle:
"This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is
Nero. The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew spelling
of the Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by means of the
Talmud and Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was found on coins
of Nero's time minted in the eastern half of the empire. And so -- n
(nun)=50; r (resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n (nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s
(samech)=60; r (resh)=200. Total 666. If we take as a basis the Latin
spelling Nero Caesar the second nun=50 disappears and we get 666 - 50
= 616, which is Irenaeus's reading." (On The History of Early
Christianity, III)
"The seven kings referred to are the emperors of Rome. At the time of
writing, five are past ('are fallen' - Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula,
Claudius, Nero), one rules still (Galba - who ruled from June 6, 68 to
January 15, 69), and the prophesy is made that only one other will
rule before the End. The final sentence resolves again into Nero.
Could he be 'is and is not' (alive then dead)? How could one 'of the
seven' be the eighth as well? The answer is that the crisis of the
year 67/68 (the so-called year of four emperors) lasted long enough
for rumors to spread that Nero had not died at his own hand, but had
fled to Persia, had raised an army and would reclaim the throne from
the interloper Vittelius. Seemingly confirming this turn of events was
the appearance of an impostor on the island of Kithnos (Thermia) -
about a hundred and thirty miles from Patmos - claiming to be Nero.
"Revelation, and other fiery tracts of the same genre, no doubt
strengthened the resolve of first century Jewish resistance. The
rebels failed, as did the Apocalypse in its prediction of the imminent
fall of Rome and of the Millennial Reign that would follow. Many early
Christians rejected the book outright, attributing authorship and the
doctrine of an 'earthly kingdom' to a late first century Jewish
Egyptian heretic called Cerinthus.
"To the chagrin of many Christians ever since, Revelation nonetheless
sneaked its way into the bible, tucked away at the back and - horror
fiction apart - largely forgotten." (Kenneth Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry
Jews)
Nothing to do other than it is paralleled completely or near completely
by the Prophet Daniel. It prophecies of history to come - centered
around three specific kingdoms. It is in no way an early tract meant
for the first century - it is specific and points directly at the end
times, the Antichrist and the Roman Catholic Church. I can understand
your extreme desire to deny this; but, it is an unavoidable truth.
Worse, is the treatment recieved by the Harlot by God. God eggs on
the inhabitants of the earth in destroying the Harlot (that would be
ya'll) - returning to her double that which she poured out upon the
earth. Literal message "God to gates of Hell: go get her!" Like it or
not that is the prophecy. If you're expecting God to stand up for ya,
He's already spoken His peace on the matter...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
02 Nov 2005 12:28:50 PM |
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Martin Edwards wrote:
....
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing as prophecy?
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
02 Nov 2005 12:29:03 PM |
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wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing as prophecy?
No.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
03 Nov 2005 12:39:21 AM |
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wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing
as prophecy?
even the weather report is unreliable.
they said it would be cold today and now i am wearing too many layers
of clothing.
i tried to make their prophecy work but now i am suffering the
consequences.
what would Jesus do ?
.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
03 Nov 2005 01:40:53 AM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
joesterl@hotmail.com wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing
as prophecy?
even the weather report is unreliable.
they said it would be cold today and now i am wearing too many layers
of clothing.
i tried to make their prophecy work but now i am suffering the
consequences.
what would Jesus do ?
Jesus would punctuate his sentences correctly and begin each with a
capital letter.
TCross
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
03 Nov 2005 11:46:51 AM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
joesterl@hotmail.com wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing
as prophecy?
even the weather report is unreliable.
they said it would be cold today and now i am wearing too many layers
of clothing.
i tried to make their prophecy work but now i am suffering the
consequences.
what would Jesus do ?
Jesus would punctuate his sentences correctly and begin each with a
capital letter.
TCross
No he wouldn't: Aramaic was all written in capitals.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
03 Nov 2005 05:02:26 PM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 03 November 2005 12:46 pm
big_mart_98@yahoo.com wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
joesterl@hotmail.com wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the
Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing
as prophecy?
even the weather report is unreliable.
they said it would be cold today and now i am wearing too many layers
of clothing.
i tried to make their prophecy work but now i am suffering the
consequences.
what would Jesus do ?
Jesus would punctuate his sentences correctly and begin each with a
capital letter.
TCross
No he wouldn't: Aramaic was all written in capitals.
Capitals or not, Jesus might still have had a problem. His daddy was Yahweh
who was represented as a bull (See the Moses story for reference). Bulls
have hooves, just like the purported Satan, although the bull's hooves
would be larger than the goat's hooves. In fact all those gods, Satan
included, were animals.
One would expect Jesus to inherit some of daddy's genes. The question
arises in cross-species breeding, are hooves a recessive or dominant trait.
<8-P
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
04 Nov 2005 01:36:48 AM |
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Darrell Stec wrote:
Capitals or not, Jesus might still have had a problem. His daddy was Yahweh
who was represented as a bull (See the Moses story for reference).
Like the Republican Party is represented by an elephant?
Bulls
have hooves, just like the purported Satan, although the bull's hooves
would be larger than the goat's hooves. In fact all those gods, Satan
included, were animals.
At the beginning of the paragraph, Yahweh was "represented" by a bull,
but by the end of the paragraph, he IS one. You scholars don't mince
words when you want to prove a point. How do you think George bush is
hiding his trunk?
One would expect Jesus to inherit some of daddy's genes. The question
arises in cross-species breeding, are hooves a recessive or dominant trait.
Let' start with smaller questions and work up. What will James
Carville's first child look like?
TCross
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| User: "Darrell Stec" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
04 Nov 2005 06:49:59 AM |
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After serious contemplation, on or about Friday 04 November 2005 2:36 am
tcross77@hotmail.com wrote:
Darrell Stec wrote:
Capitals or not, Jesus might still have had a problem. His daddy was
Yahweh who was represented as a bull (See the Moses story for reference).
Like the Republican Party is represented by an elephant?
Bulls
have hooves, just like the purported Satan, although the bull's hooves
would be larger than the goat's hooves. In fact all those gods, Satan
included, were animals.
At the beginning of the paragraph, Yahweh was "represented" by a bull,
but by the end of the paragraph, he IS one. You scholars don't mince
words when you want to prove a point.
Do you have any idea why graven images were forbidden to the Hebrews?
How do you think George bush is
hiding his trunk?
We confer no special qualities upon graven images.
One would expect Jesus to inherit some of daddy's genes. The question
arises in cross-species breeding, are hooves a recessive or dominant
trait.
Let' start with smaller questions and work up. What will James
Carville's first child look like?
TCross
Mine was an easy question if one understands evolution.
--
Later,
Darrell Stec
Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
04 Nov 2005 11:08:53 AM |
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Darrell Stec wrote:
After serious contemplation, on or about Thursday 03 November 2005 12:46 pm
big_mart_98@yahoo.com wrote:
Terry Cross wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
joesterl@hotmail.com wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the
Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing
as prophecy?
even the weather report is unreliable.
they said it would be cold today and now i am wearing too many layers
of clothing.
i tried to make their prophecy work but now i am suffering the
consequences.
what would Jesus do ?
Jesus would punctuate his sentences correctly and begin each with a
capital letter.
TCross
No he wouldn't: Aramaic was all written in capitals.
Capitals or not, Jesus might still have had a problem. His daddy was Yahweh
who was represented as a bull (See the Moses story for reference). Bulls
have hooves, just like the purported Satan, although the bull's hooves
would be larger than the goat's hooves. In fact all those gods, Satan
included, were animals.
One would expect Jesus to inherit some of daddy's genes. The question
arises in cross-species breeding, are hooves a recessive or dominant trait.
<8-P
I wouldn't quarrel with that.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
03 Nov 2005 05:53:20 AM |
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Terry Cross wrote:
Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
joesterl@hotmail.com wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing
as prophecy?
even the weather report is unreliable.
they said it would be cold today and now i am wearing too many layers
of clothing.
i tried to make their prophecy work but now i am suffering the
consequences.
what would Jesus do ?
Jesus would punctuate his sentences correctly and begin each with a
capital letter.
TCross
==========
Terry is so punctimonious.
She acts like the way "Satan" begins his sentences is a capital
offense.
Terry should show compassion on poor "Satan" who is forced to type with
his hoofs/hooves and thus has trouble using the "shift" key.
.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
03 Nov 2005 04:05:26 AM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
joesterl@hotmail.com wrote:
Martin Edwards wrote:
...
No first century writer could have foreseen the future role of the Roman
Church. It did not even have a bishop till 156.
======
You don't believe that there is such a thing
as prophecy?
even the weather report is unreliable.
they said it would be cold today and now i am wearing too many layers
of clothing.
i tried to make their prophecy work but now i am suffering the
consequences.
what would Jesus do ?
Jesus would punctuate his sentences correctly and begin each with a
capital letter.
TCross
.
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
09 Oct 2005 10:17:47 PM |
|
|
Bear wrote:
"Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to stiffen
the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
"Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes often
choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation to the
persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began with Irenaeus
at the end of the second century. Correctly understood as a Jewish
resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later Christian suffering
at all. Its core elements - the several alternative apocalyptic endings -
almost certainly were in circulation in Palestine (particularly Galilee) in
the mid-years of the first century, where such literature was popular. When
was it written? The book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but more
precisely than any other book of the bible:
""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the
beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred
threescore and six. (13.18)
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is
not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the
beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and
goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
"The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a century
scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria' resolves the name
Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without vowels), into 666. Unlike
English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet have a numerical equivalent,
which opens the door to all sorts of esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels
credits a fellow German with the resolution of the riddle:
"This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is Nero.
The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew spelling of the
Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by means of the Talmud and
Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was found on coins of Nero's time
minted in the eastern half of the empire. And so -- n (nun)=50; r
(resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n (nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s (samech)=60; r
(resh)=200. Total 666. If we take as a basis the Latin spelling Nero Caesar
the second nun=50 disappears and we get 666 - 50 = 616, which is Irenaeus's
reading." (On The History of Early Christianity, III)
Earlier this year there was a report of an new oldest version found and the number was 616 not 666.
"The seven kings referred to are the emperors of Rome. At the time of
writing, five are past ('are fallen' - Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula,
Claudius, Nero), one rules still (Galba - who ruled from June 6, 68 to
January 15, 69), and the prophesy is made that only one other will rule
before the End. The final sentence resolves again into Nero. Could he be 'is
and is not' (alive then dead)? How could one 'of the seven' be the eighth as
well? The answer is that the crisis of the year 67/68 (the so-called year of
four emperors) lasted long enough for rumors to spread that Nero had not
died at his own hand, but had fled to Persia, had raised an army and would
reclaim the throne from the interloper Vittelius. Seemingly confirming this
turn of events was the appearance of an impostor on the island of Kithnos
(Thermia) - about a hundred and thirty miles from Patmos - claiming to be
Nero.
"Revelation, and other fiery tracts of the same genre, no doubt strengthened
the resolve of first century Jewish resistance. The rebels failed, as did
the Apocalypse in its prediction of the imminent fall of Rome and of the
Millennial Reign that would follow. Many early Christians rejected the book
outright, attributing authorship and the doctrine of an 'earthly kingdom' to
a late first century Jewish Egyptian heretic called Cerinthus.
"To the chagrin of many Christians ever since, Revelation nonetheless
sneaked its way into the bible, tucked away at the back and - horror fiction
apart - largely forgotten." (Kenneth Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry Jews)
--
When reading that a scholar said something or holds an
opinion keep the word scholar in perspective. Think
National Merit Scholar.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3491
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1
.
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| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: 666 |
10 Oct 2005 12:27:23 AM |
|
|
"Matt Giwer" wrote
: Bear wrote:
: > "Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to
stiffen
: > the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
: >
: > "Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes
often
: > choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation to the
: > persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began with
Irenaeus
: > at the end of the second century. Correctly understood as a Jewish
: > resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later Christian
suffering
: > at all. Its core elements - the several alternative apocalyptic
endings -
: > almost certainly were in circulation in Palestine (particularly Galilee)
in
: > the mid-years of the first century, where such literature was popular.
When
: > was it written? The book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but
more
: > precisely than any other book of the bible:
: >
: > ""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
the
: > beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred
: > threescore and six. (13.18)
: >
: > "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other
is
: > not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And
the
: > beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
and
: > goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
: >
: > "The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a
century
: > scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria' resolves the
name
: > Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without vowels), into 666. Unlike
: > English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet have a numerical equivalent,
: > which opens the door to all sorts of esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels
: > credits a fellow German with the resolution of the riddle:
: >
: > "This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is
Nero.
: > The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew spelling of the
: > Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by means of the Talmud
and
: > Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was found on coins of Nero's
time
: > minted in the eastern half of the empire. And so -- n (nun)=50; r
: > (resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n (nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s (samech)=60; r
: > (resh)=200. Total 666. If we take as a basis the Latin spelling Nero
Caesar
: > the second nun=50 disappears and we get 666 - 50 = 616, which is
Irenaeus's
: > reading." (On The History of Early Christianity, III)
:
: Earlier this year there was a report of an new oldest version found and
the number was 616 not 666.
616?
Caligula - Emperor 37 - 41 AD
Fragments from the Book of Revelation, written in Greek and dating from the
late 3rd century, are slowly revealing their secrets.
They are part of a hoard of previously unintelligible manuscripts discovered
a century ago in dumps outside Oxyrhynchus in Egypt.
New photographic techniques are finally deciphering the original writing.
What do they reveal?
Precisely what Benary said over a century ago.
Could the Roman rascal be Caligula rather than Nero?
"This is an example of gematria, where numbers are based on the numerical
values of letters in people's names. Early Christians would use numbers to
hide the identity of people who they were attacking: 616 refers to the
Emperor Caligula."
- David Parker, Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and Paleography
at the University of Birmingham. (The Independent (UK), 01.05.05) (Kenneth
Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry Jews)
: > "The seven kings referred to are the emperors of Rome. At the time of
: > writing, five are past ('are fallen' - Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula,
: > Claudius, Nero), one rules still (Galba - who ruled from June 6, 68 to
: > January 15, 69), and the prophesy is made that only one other will rule
: > before the End. The final sentence resolves again into Nero. Could he be
'is
: > and is not' (alive then dead)? How could one 'of the seven' be the
eighth as
: > well? The answer is that the crisis of the year 67/68 (the so-called
year of
: > four emperors) lasted long enough for rumors to spread that Nero had not
: > died at his own hand, but had fled to Persia, had raised an army and
would
: > reclaim the throne from the interloper Vittelius. Seemingly confirming
this
: > turn of events was the appearance of an impostor on the island of
Kithnos
: > (Thermia) - about a hundred and thirty miles from Patmos - claiming to
be
: > Nero.
:
: > "Revelation, and other fiery tracts of the same genre, no doubt
strengthened
: > the resolve of first century Jewish resistance. The rebels failed, as
did
: > the Apocalypse in its prediction of the imminent fall of Rome and of the
: > Millennial Reign that would follow. Many early Christians rejected the
book
: > outright, attributing authorship and the doctrine of an 'earthly
kingdom' to
: > a late first century Jewish Egyptian heretic called Cerinthus.
:
: > "To the chagrin of many Christians ever since, Revelation nonetheless
: > sneaked its way into the bible, tucked away at the back and - horror
fiction
: > apart - largely forgotten." (Kenneth Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry Jews)
:
: --
: When reading that a scholar said something or holds an
: opinion keep the word scholar in perspective. Think
: National Merit Scholar.
: -- The Iron Webmaster, 3491
: nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
: antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1
.
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| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: 666 (revised) |
10 Oct 2005 12:32:26 AM |
|
|
"Bear" wrote
: "Matt Giwer" wrote
:: Bear wrote:
:: > "Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to
: stiffen
:: > the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
:: >
:: > "Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes
: often
:: > choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation to the
:: > persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began with
: Irenaeus
:: > at the end of the second century. Correctly understood as a Jewish
:: > resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later Christian
: suffering
:: > at all. Its core elements - the several alternative apocalyptic
: endings -
:: > almost certainly were in circulation in Palestine (particularly
Galilee)
: in
:: > the mid-years of the first century, where such literature was popular.
: When
:: > was it written? The book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but
: more
:: > precisely than any other book of the bible:
:: >
:: > ""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
: the
:: > beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred
:: > threescore and six. (13.18)
:: >
:: > "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other
: is
:: > not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And
: the
:: > beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
: and
:: > goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
:: >
:: > "The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a
: century
:: > scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria' resolves the
: name
:: > Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without vowels), into 666. Unlike
:: > English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet have a numerical
equivalent,
:: > which opens the door to all sorts of esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels
:: > credits a fellow German with the resolution of the riddle:
:: >
:: > "This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is
: Nero.
:: > The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew spelling of the
:: > Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by means of the Talmud
: and
:: > Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was found on coins of Nero's
: time
:: > minted in the eastern half of the empire. And so -- n (nun)=50; r
:: > (resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n (nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s (samech)=60; r
:: > (resh)=200. Total 666. If we take as a basis the Latin spelling Nero
: Caesar
:: > the second nun=50 disappears and we get 666 - 50 = 616, which is
: Irenaeus's
:: > reading." (On The History of Early Christianity, III)
::
:: Earlier this year there was a report of an new oldest version found and
: the number was 616 not 666.
"616?
"Caligula - Emperor 37 - 41 AD
"Fragments from the Book of Revelation, written in Greek and dating from the
late 3rd century, are slowly revealing their secrets.
"They are part of a hoard of previously unintelligible manuscripts
discovered a century ago in dumps outside Oxyrhynchus in Egypt.
"New photographic techniques are finally deciphering the original writing.
"What do they reveal?
"Precisely what Benary said over a century ago.
"Could the Roman rascal be Caligula rather than Nero?
""This is an example of gematria, where numbers are based on the numerical
values of letters in people's names. Early Christians would use numbers to
hide the identity of people who they were attacking: 616 refers to the
Emperor Caligula."
"- David Parker, Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and
Paleography at the University of Birmingham. (The Independent (UK),
01.05.05)" (Kenneth Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry Jews)
:: > "The seven kings referred to are the emperors of Rome. At the time of
:: > writing, five are past ('are fallen' - Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula,
:: > Claudius, Nero), one rules still (Galba - who ruled from June 6, 68 to
:: > January 15, 69), and the prophesy is made that only one other will rule
:: > before the End. The final sentence resolves again into Nero. Could he
be
: 'is
:: > and is not' (alive then dead)? How could one 'of the seven' be the
: eighth as
:: > well? The answer is that the crisis of the year 67/68 (the so-called
: year of
:: > four emperors) lasted long enough for rumors to spread that Nero had
not
:: > died at his own hand, but had fled to Persia, had raised an army and
: would
:: > reclaim the throne from the interloper Vittelius. Seemingly confirming
: this
:: > turn of events was the appearance of an impostor on the island of
: Kithnos
:: > (Thermia) - about a hundred and thirty miles from Patmos - claiming to
: be
:: > Nero.
::
:: > "Revelation, and other fiery tracts of the same genre, no doubt
: strengthened
:: > the resolve of first century Jewish resistance. The rebels failed, as
: did
:: > the Apocalypse in its prediction of the imminent fall of Rome and of
the
:: > Millennial Reign that would follow. Many early Christians rejected the
: book
:: > outright, attributing authorship and the doctrine of an 'earthly
: kingdom' to
:: > a late first century Jewish Egyptian heretic called Cerinthus.
::
:: > "To the chagrin of many Christians ever since, Revelation nonetheless
:: > sneaked its way into the bible, tucked away at the back and - horror
: fiction
:: > apart - largely forgotten." (Kenneth Humphreys; 68 AD - Angry Jews)
::
:: --
:: When reading that a scholar said something or holds an
:: opinion keep the word scholar in perspective. Think
:: National Merit Scholar.
:: -- The Iron Webmaster, 3491
:: nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
:: antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1
:
:
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
10 Oct 2005 12:23:06 PM |
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|
Matt Giwer wrote:
Bear wrote:
"Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to
stiffen the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
"Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes
often choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation
to the persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began
with Irenaeus at the end of the second century. Correctly understood
as a Jewish resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later
Christian suffering at all. Its core elements - the several
alternative apocalyptic endings - almost certainly were in circulation
in Palestine (particularly Galilee) in the mid-years of the first
century, where such literature was popular. When was it written? The
book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but more precisely than
any other book of the bible:
""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six
hundred threescore and six. (13.18)
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other
is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of
the seven, and goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
"The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a
century scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria'
resolves the name Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without
vowels), into 666. Unlike English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet
have a numerical equivalent, which opens the door to all sorts of
esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels credits a fellow German with the
resolution of the riddle:
"This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is
Nero. The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew spelling
of the Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by means of the
Talmud and Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was found on coins
of Nero's time minted in the eastern half of the empire. And so -- n
(nun)=50; r (resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n (nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s
(samech)=60; r (resh)=200. Total 666. If we take as a basis the Latin
spelling Nero Caesar the second nun=50 disappears and we get 666 - 50
= 616, which is Irenaeus's reading." (On The History of Early
Christianity, III)
Earlier this year there was a report of an new oldest version found
and the number was 616 not 666.
Another nice one, Matt. 616 was based on Domitian's birthday. 666 was
a scribal error. Domitian was trying to revive the sacrifial cult and
many of the victims were pagan backsliders, though some were obviously
Christians.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
.
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
|
| Title: Re: 666 |
10 Oct 2005 09:38:23 PM |
|
|
Martin Edwards wrote:
Matt Giwer wrote:
Bear wrote:
"Revelation is nothing more than virulent anti-Roman fury meant to
stiffen the brethren by lurid images of their foes in torment.
"Despite internal evidence for an earlier dating, Christian scribes
often choose to aggrandize their own 'suffering' by dating Revelation
to the persecutions of Domitian about 96 AD. This 'tradition' began
with Irenaeus at the end of the second century. Correctly understood
as a Jewish resistance tract Revelation has nothing to do with later
Christian suffering at all. Its core elements - the several
alternative apocalyptic endings - almost certainly were in
circulation in Palestine (particularly Galilee) in the mid-years of
the first century, where such literature was popular. When was it
written? The book itself tells us the answer, enigmatically but more
precisely than any other book of the bible:
""Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six
hundred threescore and six. (13.18)
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the
other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short
space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and
is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." (Revelation 17.10, 11)
"The person these two classic quotes point to is Nero. For over a
century scholars have known that Jewish numerology or 'gematria'
resolves the name Nero Caesar, as it appears in Hebrew (without
vowels), into 666. Unlike English, all letters of the Hebrew alphabet
have a numerical equivalent, which opens the door to all sorts of
esoteric or 'mystical' use. Engels credits a fellow German with the
resolution of the riddle:
"This solution was given by Ferdinand Benary of Berlin. The name is
Nero. The number is based on [Hebrew] Neron Kesar, the Hebrew
spelling of the Greek Nerôn Kaisar, Emperor Nero, authenticated by
means of the Talmud and Palmyrian inscriptions. This inscription was
found on coins of Nero's time minted in the eastern half of the
empire. And so -- n (nun)=50; r (resh)=200; v (vau) for o=6; n
(nun)=50; k (kaph)=100; s (samech)=60; r (resh)=200. Total 666. If we
take as a basis the Latin spelling Nero Caesar the second nun=50
disappears and we get 666 - 50 = 616, which is Irenaeus's reading."
(On The History of Early Christianity, III)
Earlier this year there was a report of an new oldest version
found and the number was 616 not 666.
Another nice one, Matt. 616 was based on Domitian's birthday. 666 was
a scribal error. Domitian was trying to revive the sacrifial cult and
many of the victims were pagan backsliders, though some were obviously
Christians.
DCXVI to DCLXVI
--
The first rule of war is churches on both sides support it.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3522
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
environmentalism http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a9
.
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| User: "666" |
|
| Title: Re: 666 |
10 Oct 2005 07:24:54 PM |
|
|
Never doubts the Truth Words from the Bible
I AM coming into this world has been recorded within!
.
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| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: 666 |
10 Oct 2005 07:40:23 PM |
|
|
"666" wrote
: Never doubts the Truth Words from the Bible
If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you eloborate on which truths you
are referring to?
: I AM coming into this world has been recorded within!
Who is the 'I' that you "am' referring to?
--
Bear
"Do good, for good is good to do; Spurn bribe of heaven and threat of hell."
.
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| User: "666" |
|
| Title: Re: 666 |
12 Oct 2005 06:50:15 AM |
|
|
Bear wrote:
"666" wrote
: Never doubts the Truth Words from the Bible
If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you eloborate on which truths you
are referring to?
: I AM coming into this world has been recorded within!
Who is the 'I' that you "am' referring to?
--
Bear
"Do good, for good is good to do; Spurn bribe of heaven and threat of hell."
Every Word is TRUTH in the Bible
I AM refers to GOD!
.
|
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| User: "Bear" |
|
| Title: Re: 666 |
12 Oct 2005 06:53:23 AM |
|
|
"666" wrote
: Bear wrote:
: > "666" wrote
: > : Never doubts the Truth Words from the Bible
: >
: > If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you eloborate on which truths
you
: > are referring to?
: >
: > : I AM coming into this world has been recorded within!
: >
: > Who is the 'I' that you "am' referring to?
: >
: > "Do good, for good is good to do; Spurn bribe of heaven and threat of
hell."
:
: Every Word is TRUTH in the Bible
Can you support that assertion?
: I AM refers to GOD!
Zeus or Osiris?
--
Bear
"Do good, for good is good to do; Spurn bribe of heaven and threat of hell."
.
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
|
| Title: Re: 666 |
12 Oct 2005 12:11:21 PM |
|
|
Bear wrote:
"666" wrote
: Bear wrote:
: > "666" wrote
: > : Never doubts the Truth Words from the Bible
: >
: > If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you eloborate on which truths
you
: > are referring to?
: >
: > : I AM coming into this world has been recorded within!
: >
: > Who is the 'I' that you "am' referring to?
: >
: > "Do good, for good is good to do; Spurn bribe of heaven and threat of
hell."
:
: Every Word is TRUTH in the Bible
Can you support that assertion?
: I AM refers to GOD!
Zeus or Osiris?
Chunky.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
12 Oct 2005 12:10:30 PM |
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666 wrote:
Never doubts the Truth Words from the Bible
I AM coming into this world has been recorded within!
I can't make anything of that. Help, anyone?
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
10 Oct 2005 09:41:07 PM |
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666 wrote:
Never doubts the Truth Words from the Bible
I AM coming into this world has been recorded within!
Within later erronious copies.
--
When reading that a scholar said something or holds an
opinion keep the word scholar in perspective. Think
National Merit Scholar.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3491
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Lawful to bomb Israelis http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/bombings.phtml a11
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
11 Oct 2005 02:45:54 AM |
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and as it is the "number of a man" is not merely to say it is a "human"
number because all numbers are human [as are all symbols known to us]
and there is no need to state the obvious.
It is the number of a particular man
there is a manuscript which assigns 616.
originally it was believed that this indicated that *Latin* and the
Aramaic/Hebrew gematria so-called is intended for the same person.
The characters proposed were "nun-resh-vav-nun qof-samech-resh"
while a `nun` has a value of 50, `nun sofit` actually carries a value
of 700.
The isopsephos must be based on a Latin name for a known Roman ruler,
or based on Greek transliteration of Hebrew for Jewish leader.
*who is known at time of imprisonment of Ioannes.*
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| User: "Martin Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
12 Oct 2005 12:12:23 PM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
and as it is the "number of a man" is not merely to say it is a "human"
number because all numbers are human [as are all symbols known to us]
and there is no need to state the obvious.
It is the number of a particular man
there is a manuscript which assigns 616.
originally it was believed that this indicated that *Latin* and the
Aramaic/Hebrew gematria so-called is intended for the same person.
The characters proposed were "nun-resh-vav-nun qof-samech-resh"
while a `nun` has a value of 50, `nun sofit` actually carries a value
of 700.
The isopsephos must be based on a Latin name for a known Roman ruler,
or based on Greek transliteration of Hebrew for Jewish leader.
*who is known at time of imprisonment of Ioannes.*
Domitian. Do pay attention.
--
You can't fool me: there ain't no Sanity Clause - Chico Marx
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/1955
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: 666 |
12 Oct 2005 01:42:49 AM |
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Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun] wrote:
and as it is the "number of a man" is not merely to say it is a "human"
number because all numbers are human [as are all symbols known to us]
and there is no need to state the obvious.
It is the number of a particular man
there is a manuscript which assigns 616.
originally it was believed that this indicated that *Latin* and the
Aramaic/Hebrew gematria so-called is intended for the same person.
The characters proposed were "nun-resh-vav-nun qof-samech-resh"
while a `nun` has a value of 50, `nun sofit` actually carries a value
of 700.
The isopsephos must be based on a Latin name for a known Roman ruler,
or based on Greek transliteration of Hebrew for Jewish leader.
*who is known at time of imprisonment of Ioannes.*
You can go on forever on things like this but numerology is wierd to begin with and has more than
one system today. How many varied systems of numerology there would have existed back then makes
your exercise a yawn UNLESS you can identify the school of numerology to the point of identifying
the school which likely created Revelation. That would be a contribution. But I have not read there
is enough known of the different systems back then to do such a thing.
And even if there were I would question any analysis which does not apply their specific rules
which are unquestioned because today numerologists are very ad hoc in the rules they apply to get
the desired answer.
--
If Jews are smart why isn't Israel ahead of Singapore?
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3513
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Mission Accomplished http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/mission.phtml a12
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