Religions > Atheism > __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"_ Prof. Jonez _" |
| Date: |
26 Aug 2007 05:53:59 PM |
| Object: |
__ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Agence France-Presse
Last updated 08:56am (Mla time) 08/26/2007
NEW YORK -- Mother Teresa, who is one step short of being made a Catholic saint,
suffered crises of faith for most of her life and even doubted God's existence,
according to a set of newly published letters.
"Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and the emptiness
is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear," the missionary
wrote to one confidant, Reverend Michael Van Der Peet, in 1979.
The letters, some of which she wanted destroyed, appear in "Mother Teresa: Come
Be My Light," due to be published next week, 10 years after her death. Extracts
of the book appear in the latest edition of Time magazine.
In more than 40 letters spanning some 66 years, the ethnic Albanian nun who
devoted her life to working with the poor in the slums of Kolkata in India,
writes of the "darkness," "loneliness" and "torture" she is undergoing.
"Where is my Faith -- even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness
and darkness -- My God -- how painful is this unknown pain -- I have no Faith,"
she wrote in an undated letter addressed to Jesus.
"If there be God -- please forgive me -- When I try to raise my thoughts to
Heaven -- there is such convicting emptiness."
"I call, I cling, I want -- and there is no One to answer -- no One on Whom I
can cling -- no, No One. -- Alone."
In her early life, Mother Teresa, also known as "The Saint of the Gutters," had
visions. In one, she talked to a crucified Jesus on the cross.
But the letters reveal that apart from a brief respite in 1959, she spent most
of the last 50 years of her life doubting God's presence -- much at odds with
her public face.
"The smile," she wrote in one letter, is "a mask."
In another letter, written in 1959, she wrote: "If there be no God -- there can
be no soul -- if there is no Soul then Jesus -- You also are not true."
The book's compiler and editor Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk is a member of Mother
Teresa's Missionaries of Charity and was responsible for petitioning for her
sainthood. She was beatified -- one step short of sainthood -- in 2003.
"I've never read a saint's life where the saint has such an intense spiritual
darkness. No one knew she was that tormented," Kolodiejchuk told Time magazine.
"I read one letter to the sisters [of Teresa's Missionaries of Charity], and
their mouths just dropped open. It will give a whole new dimension to the way
people understand her," he added.
Cardinal Angelo Scola, the patriarch of Venice, said Saturday that the letters
showed Teresa was "one of us, that she did all her work as we do, no more no
less."
Even in the depths of doubt, Mother Teresa "always had recourse to the most
elementary form of the exercise of one's will, that of asking Jesus each day to
reveal his face," said Scola, who had already written about the letters in the
Vatican publication Osservatore Romano, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
Mother Teresa was beatified just six years after her death, when late pope John
Paul II set on her a fast track to sainthood. It was something the nun seemed to
have predicted as early as 1962, when she wrote in one letter:
"If I ever become a Saint -- I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I will
continually be absent from Heaven."
.
|
|
| User: "Kent Wills" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 04:24:35 PM |
|
|
As I understand it, on Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:52:52 -0600, "_ Prof. Jonez
_" <theprof@jonez.net> wrote:
As for " Mother" Teresa, I agree with you. What she and her order DID
to the DYING in India was cruel and sadistic.
What is it you're saying that she did to be cruel and sadistic?
Foreverignorantfan AKA Moe and numerous other nyms is no RC.
DUH! She's stated many times she's Wiccan. One of those you
think should be murdered.
Message-ID: <5iieliF3pnbpnU1@mid.individual.net>
She CLAIMS
to be a militant Pagan (wiccan, witch, etc)
Militant?
but has a specific hatred toward
Christians who she claims burned her ancestors alive at the stake.
The truth is you hate her because she came to my defense when
you called to have me murdered for marrying a Hispanic (read:
non-white) woman and having children with said Hispanic woman.
Had she kept quite, you wouldn't have a problem with her. But
she stood up to your racism, and that's just NOT acceptable to you.
--
Kent
A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "marika" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
08 Sep 2007 11:54:17 PM |
|
|
_ Prof. Jonez _ wrote in message <5jga8hF3tr1n8U1@mid.individual.net>...
Foreverignorantfan AKA Moe and numerous other nyms is no RC.
I don't think she's an aries, I am almost sure he's a taurus, one of
those cusp people
She CLAIMS
to be a militant Pagan (wiccan, witch, etc) but has a specific hatred toward
Christians who she claims burned her ancestors alive at the stake.
I on the other hand I AM an Aries which makes it even funnier
mk5000
"I don't wanna waste another day
Stuck in the shadow of my mistakes
Yeah...
Cause I want you, "--nick lachey, what's left of me
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "forevernitefan" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking Prof. Jonez's lies with the facts, the "atheist" who believes in Biblegod |
27 Aug 2007 03:27:11 PM |
|
|
_ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
Pmb wrote:
"forevernitefan" <fvrnite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1188197733.699745.105640@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Stephen Knight wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:42:00 -0400, "Pmb" <someone@somewhere.net>
wrote:
snip UltraMan's fine post and going for the meat.....
"=A5 UltraMan =A5" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
Welcome to my "Block Sender" list. I don't come here to discuss
anything with atheists. I've yet to meet a person who was well
educated and scholarly
enough to deserve that title.
Bye bye
Typical stereo-typed christian.
You can't stand that your hypocritical christian *****, Mother T
was a piece of ***** cash cow for the RCC.
Prof. Jonez AKA Ultraman amd numerous other nyms is no RC. He CLAIMS
to be an atheist but he has a hard-on type hatred for the god of
Christianity.
As for " Mother" Teresa, I agree with you. What she and her order DID
to the DYING in India was cruel and sadistic.
What is it you're saying that she did to be cruel and sadistic?
Foreverignorantfan AKA Moe and numerous other nyms is no RC. She CLAIMS
to be a militant Pagan (wiccan, witch, etc) but has a specific hatred tow=
ard
Christians who she claims burned her ancestors alive at the stake.
I never claimed to be Roman Catholic Eric. And I do NOT have other
nyms on usenet, unlike you. There's two lies about me you just told.
I never claimed to be a "militant" Pagan though I am Pagan. Lie #3 on
your part Eric.
And while I do have a strong animosity towards CERTAIN ASPECTS of
Christianity, I do NOT hate Christianity/Christians per se.. Lie #4 on
your part Eric.
I never claimed Christians burned " my ancestors" at the stake. That
is lie #5 on your part Eric. I made no mention of my ancestors, Eric.
Can you show me my "other nyms"? Can you show me where I mentioned my
ancestors being burned at the stake? Can you show the post I made
where I called myself a "militant" Pagan? Can you show ANY post I made
where I claimed I was RC?
No you cannot do any of those, because you lied, as usual.
I have made posts calling myself Pagan/Wiccan and have made posts
showing my animosity towards certain aspects of Christianity. I don't
deny that. But Eric, if you really wanted to attack me, I have made
more than enough posts in the past years for you to use without you
needing to lie about me.
You're just mad I helped expose you as the white supremacist racist
you are. And you are afraid Kent might proceed with filing criminal
charges against you for threateing him, his wife and kids.
Make some effort next time you attack me, poser.
Moe
Eternal FOREVER KNIGHT fan
" A vampire cop? REALLY?"
http://www.boblarsonfanclub.tk/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kent Wills" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking Prof. Jonez's lies with the facts, the "atheist" who believes in Biblegod |
27 Aug 2007 04:27:42 PM |
|
|
As I understand it, on Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:27:11 -0700, forevernitefan
<fvrnite@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
You're just mad I helped expose you as the white supremacist racist
you are. And you are afraid Kent might proceed with filing criminal
charges against you for threateing him, his wife and kids.
I'm not worried about Lindsay. She's more than able to take
care of herself. And had Jonezie left it as calling for me and Lin to
be murdered, I would have blown the threats off as the rants of a mad
man.
When he called for our children to be murdered because they
aren't white, then the law came into play.
<Cue Jonez offering more evidence that he hates me for marrying and
having children with a Hispanic woman>
--
Kent
"I most stonger than Darth Vapor!"
-- Zladko "Zlad" Vladcik
.
|
|
|
| User: "forevernitefan" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking Prof. Jonez's lies with the facts, the "atheist" who believes in Biblegod |
28 Aug 2007 02:10:28 PM |
|
|
Kent Wills wrote:
As I understand it, on Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:27:11 -0700, forevernitefan
<fvrnite@yahoo.com> wrote:
[...]
You're just mad I helped expose you as the white supremacist racist
you are. And you are afraid Kent might proceed with filing criminal
charges against you for threateing him, his wife and kids.
I'm not worried about Lindsay. She's more than able to take
care of herself. And had Jonezie left it as calling for me and Lin to
be murdered, I would have blown the threats off as the rants of a mad
man.
When he called for our children to be murdered because they
aren't white, then the law came into play.
<Cue Jonez offering more evidence that he hates me for marrying and
having children with a Hispanic woman>
--
Kent
"I most stonger than Darth Vapor!"
-- Zladko "Zlad" Vladcik
Eric is a loudmouthed spam poster who spends way too much time
online-- proably because his real life sucks. He's big with the tough
talk but very small as to the actual backbone. Thanks to Sammy, whom
Eric forgot lives in Colorado ( and Eric in his challenges to Larry G.
mentioned in detail a business card Eric put up in a specific
location-- very dumb, Eric.) we now where his business is.
Perosnally if he did to me what he did to you, I would take a personal
trip to where he is and do some investigating. His vitriol online may
be a refecltionof his behavior in the real world. It wouldn't surprise
me that he has an arrest record. Frankly I'm curious to see what he
actually looks like. I'm guessing Jerry Springer white trash level.
At any rate his attempts to attack me are pathetic. His claling for
your children to be murderered shows how much of a sick ***** he really
is.
Moe
Eternal FOREVER KNIGHT fan
" A vampire cop? REALLY?"
http://www.boblarsonfanclub.tk/
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "¥ UltraMan ¥" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
26 Aug 2007 09:06:48 PM |
|
|
Pmb wrote:
"¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
Pmb wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.atheism,alt.fan.bob-larson,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic,alt.true-crime
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:53 PM
Subject: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <=
atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Agence France-Presse
Last updated 08:56am (Mla time) 08/26/2007
NEW YORK -- Mother Teresa, who is one step short of being made a
Catholic saint, suffered crises of faith for most of her life and
even doubted God's existence, according to a set of newly published
letters. "Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the
silence and
the emptiness is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do
not hear," the missionary wrote to one confidant, Reverend Michael
Van Der Peet, in 1979.
The letters, some of which she wanted destroyed, appear in "Mother
Teresa: Come Be My Light," due to be published next week, 10 years
after her death. Extracts of the book appear in the latest edition
of Time magazine. In more than 40 letters spanning some 66 years,
the ethnic Albanian
nun who devoted her life to working with the poor in the slums of
Kolkata in India, writes of the "darkness," "loneliness" and
"torture" she is undergoing.
"Where is my Faith -- even deep down right in there is nothing, but
emptiness and darkness -- My God -- how painful is this unknown
pain -- I have no Faith," she wrote in an undated letter addressed
to Jesus. "If there be God -- please forgive me -- When I try to
raise my thoughts to Heaven -- there is such convicting emptiness."
"I call, I cling, I want -- and there is no One to answer -- no One
on Whom I can cling -- no, No One. -- Alone."
In her early life, Mother Teresa, also known as "The Saint of the
Gutters," had visions. In one, she talked to a crucified Jesus on
the cross.
But the letters reveal that apart from a brief respite in 1959, she
spent most of the last 50 years of her life doubting God's presence
-- much at odds with her public face.
"The smile," she wrote in one letter, is "a mask."
In another letter, written in 1959, she wrote: "If there be no God
-- there can be no soul -- if there is no Soul then Jesus -- You
also are not true."
The book's compiler and editor Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk is a
member of Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity and was
responsible for petitioning for her sainthood. She was beatified --
one step short of sainthood -- in 2003.
"I've never read a saint's life where the saint has such an intense
spiritual darkness. No one knew she was that tormented,"
Kolodiejchuk told Time magazine.
"I read one letter to the sisters [of Teresa's Missionaries of
Charity], and their mouths just dropped open. It will give a whole
new dimension to the way people understand her," he added.
Cardinal Angelo Scola, the patriarch of Venice, said Saturday that
the letters showed Teresa was "one of us, that she did all her work
as we do, no more no less."
Even in the depths of doubt, Mother Teresa "always had recourse to
the most elementary form of the exercise of one's will, that of
asking Jesus each day to reveal his face," said Scola, who had
already written about the letters in the Vatican publication
Osservatore Romano, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
Mother Teresa was beatified just six years after her death, when
late pope John Paul II set on her a fast track to sainthood. It was
something the nun seemed to have predicted as early as 1962, when
she wrote in one letter:
"If I ever become a Saint -- I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I
will continually be absent from Heaven."
If this is true then all this tells us was that Mother Teresa was
just as human as every other Christian
So she wasn't/isn't a "saint" then, eh?
That's for the church to decide. They have criteria which must be
satisfied in order that a person be sanctified as a Saint. And they
don't count how often that person has questioned their own beliefs.
That merely shows an educated women rather than a woman who blindy
believes whatever she is told. But the amount of good work she has
done will in part determine whether she will become a Saint or not.
It doesn't.
Welcome to my "Block Sender" list. I don't come here to discuss
anything with atheists. I've yet to meet a person who was well
educated and scholarly enough to deserve that title.
What "title" would that be ?
Bye bye
Typical theist, runs and hides behind ignorance when faced with uncomfortable
facts.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 11:45:43 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:06:48 -0600, "¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp>
wrote:
[piggybacking]
Pmb wrote:
Welcome to my "Block Sender" list. I don't come here to discuss
anything with atheists.
Then why do you post to alt.atheism?
I've yet to meet a person who was well
educated and scholarly enough to deserve that title.
Have you ever met one well educated and scholarly enough to know that
most of the people reading alt.atheism are atheists?
Typical theist, runs and hides behind ignorance when faced with uncomfortable
facts.
Isn't that what Christianity is - running from facts?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "_ Prof. Jonez _" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
26 Aug 2007 11:28:57 PM |
|
|
Pmb wrote:
"¥ UltraMan ¥" <ultra@man.jp> wrote in message
Pmb wrote:
From: "_ Prof. Jonez _" <theprof@jonez.net>
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Agence France-Presse
Last updated 08:56am (Mla time) 08/26/2007
NEW YORK -- Mother Teresa, who is one step short of being made a
Catholic saint, suffered crises of faith for most of her life and
even doubted God's existence, according to a set of newly published
letters. "Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the
silence and
the emptiness is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do
not hear," the missionary wrote to one confidant, Reverend Michael
Van Der Peet, in 1979.
The letters, some of which she wanted destroyed, appear in "Mother
Teresa: Come Be My Light," due to be published next week, 10 years
after her death. Extracts of the book appear in the latest edition
of Time magazine. In more than 40 letters spanning some 66 years,
the ethnic Albanian
nun who devoted her life to working with the poor in the slums of
Kolkata in India, writes of the "darkness," "loneliness" and
"torture" she is undergoing.
"Where is my Faith -- even deep down right in there is nothing, but
emptiness and darkness -- My God -- how painful is this unknown
pain -- I have no Faith," she wrote in an undated letter addressed
to Jesus. "If there be God -- please forgive me -- When I try to
raise my thoughts to Heaven -- there is such convicting emptiness."
"I call, I cling, I want -- and there is no One to answer -- no One
on Whom I can cling -- no, No One. -- Alone."
In her early life, Mother Teresa, also known as "The Saint of the
Gutters," had visions. In one, she talked to a crucified Jesus on
the cross.
But the letters reveal that apart from a brief respite in 1959, she
spent most of the last 50 years of her life doubting God's presence
-- much at odds with her public face.
"The smile," she wrote in one letter, is "a mask."
In another letter, written in 1959, she wrote: "If there be no God
-- there can be no soul -- if there is no Soul then Jesus -- You
also are not true."
The book's compiler and editor Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk is a
member of Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity and was
responsible for petitioning for her sainthood. She was beatified --
one step short of sainthood -- in 2003.
"I've never read a saint's life where the saint has such an intense
spiritual darkness. No one knew she was that tormented,"
Kolodiejchuk told Time magazine.
"I read one letter to the sisters [of Teresa's Missionaries of
Charity], and their mouths just dropped open. It will give a whole
new dimension to the way people understand her," he added.
Cardinal Angelo Scola, the patriarch of Venice, said Saturday that
the letters showed Teresa was "one of us, that she did all her work
as we do, no more no less."
Even in the depths of doubt, Mother Teresa "always had recourse to
the most elementary form of the exercise of one's will, that of
asking Jesus each day to reveal his face," said Scola, who had
already written about the letters in the Vatican publication
Osservatore Romano, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
Mother Teresa was beatified just six years after her death, when
late pope John Paul II set on her a fast track to sainthood. It was
something the nun seemed to have predicted as early as 1962, when
she wrote in one letter:
"If I ever become a Saint -- I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I
will continually be absent from Heaven."
If this is true then all this tells us was that Mother Teresa was
just as human as every other Christian
So she wasn't/isn't a "saint" then, eh?
That's for the church to decide. They have criteria which must be
satisfied in order that a person be sanctified as a Saint. And they
don't count how often that person has questioned their own beliefs.
That merely shows an educated women rather than a woman who blindy
believes whatever she is told. But the amount of good work she has
done will in part determine whether she will become a Saint or not.
It doesn't.
Welcome to my "Block Sender" list.
So you block reality?
I don't come here to discuss anything with atheists.
They why did you open your mouth in an atheist news group?
I've yet to meet a person who was well
educated and scholarly enough to deserve that title.
What title are you talking about? Atheist?
Bye bye
See ya ... don't let St. Peter's gate hit you in the ***** on the way out!
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ronald More-More Moshki" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
26 Aug 2007 07:02:07 PM |
|
|
On Aug 26, 6:53 pm, "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Agence France-Presse
Last updated 08:56am (Mla time) 08/26/2007
NEW YORK -- Mother Teresa, who is one step short of being made a Catholic saint,
suffered crises of faith for most of her life and even doubted God's existence,
according to a set of newly published letters.
"Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and the emptiness
is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear," the missionary
wrote to one confidant, Reverend Michael Van Der Peet, in 1979.
The letters, some of which she wanted destroyed, appear in "Mother Teresa: Come
Be My Light," due to be published next week, 10 years after her death. Extracts
of the book appear in the latest edition of Time magazine.
In more than 40 letters spanning some 66 years, the ethnic Albanian nun who
devoted her life to working with the poor in the slums of Kolkata in India,
writes of the "darkness," "loneliness" and "torture" she is undergoing.
"Where is my Faith -- even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness
and darkness -- My God -- how painful is this unknown pain -- I have no Faith,"
she wrote in an undated letter addressed to Jesus.
"If there be God -- please forgive me -- When I try to raise my thoughts to
Heaven -- there is such convicting emptiness."
"I call, I cling, I want -- and there is no One to answer -- no One on Whom I
can cling -- no, No One. -- Alone."
In her early life, Mother Teresa, also known as "The Saint of the Gutters," had
visions. In one, she talked to a crucified Jesus on the cross.
But the letters reveal that apart from a brief respite in 1959, she spent most
of the last 50 years of her life doubting God's presence -- much at odds with
her public face.
"The smile," she wrote in one letter, is "a mask."
In another letter, written in 1959, she wrote: "If there be no God -- there can
be no soul -- if there is no Soul then Jesus -- You also are not true."
The book's compiler and editor Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk is a member of Mother
Teresa's Missionaries of Charity and was responsible for petitioning for her
sainthood. She was beatified -- one step short of sainthood -- in 2003.
"I've never read a saint's life where the saint has such an intense spiritual
darkness. No one knew she was that tormented," Kolodiejchuk told Time magazine.
"I read one letter to the sisters [of Teresa's Missionaries of Charity], and
their mouths just dropped open. It will give a whole new dimension to the way
people understand her," he added.
Cardinal Angelo Scola, the patriarch of Venice, said Saturday that the letters
showed Teresa was "one of us, that she did all her work as we do, no more no
less."
Even in the depths of doubt, Mother Teresa "always had recourse to the most
elementary form of the exercise of one's will, that of asking Jesus each day to
reveal his face," said Scola, who had already written about the letters in the
Vatican publication Osservatore Romano, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
Mother Teresa was beatified just six years after her death, when late pope John
Paul II set on her a fast track to sainthood. It was something the nun seemed to
have predicted as early as 1962, when she wrote in one letter:
"If I ever become a Saint -- I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I will
continually be absent from Heaven."
Christopher Hitchens ("The Missionary Position") proved she
didn't do much in India and that she took dirty money.
Chrissy would have loved this stuff.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
26 Aug 2007 07:35:14 PM |
|
|
On Aug 26, 8:02 pm, Ronald 'More-More' Moshki <sector_f...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Aug 26, 6:53 pm, "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Agence France-Presse
Last updated 08:56am (Mla time) 08/26/2007
NEW YORK -- Mother Teresa, who is one step short of being made a Catholic saint,
suffered crises of faith for most of her life and even doubted God's existence,
according to a set of newly published letters.
"Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and the emptiness
is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear," the missionary
wrote to one confidant, Reverend Michael Van Der Peet, in 1979.
The letters, some of which she wanted destroyed, appear in "Mother Teresa: Come
Be My Light," due to be published next week, 10 years after her death. Extracts
of the book appear in the latest edition of Time magazine.
In more than 40 letters spanning some 66 years, the ethnic Albanian nun who
devoted her life to working with the poor in the slums of Kolkata in India,
writes of the "darkness," "loneliness" and "torture" she is undergoing.
"Where is my Faith -- even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness
and darkness -- My God -- how painful is this unknown pain -- I have no Faith,"
she wrote in an undated letter addressed to Jesus.
"If there be God -- please forgive me -- When I try to raise my thoughts to
Heaven -- there is such convicting emptiness."
"I call, I cling, I want -- and there is no One to answer -- no One on Whom I
can cling -- no, No One. -- Alone."
In her early life, Mother Teresa, also known as "The Saint of the Gutters," had
visions. In one, she talked to a crucified Jesus on the cross.
But the letters reveal that apart from a brief respite in 1959, she spent most
of the last 50 years of her life doubting God's presence -- much at odds with
her public face.
"The smile," she wrote in one letter, is "a mask."
In another letter, written in 1959, she wrote: "If there be no God -- there can
be no soul -- if there is no Soul then Jesus -- You also are not true."
The book's compiler and editor Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk is a member of Mother
Teresa's Missionaries of Charity and was responsible for petitioning for her
sainthood. She was beatified -- one step short of sainthood -- in 2003.
"I've never read a saint's life where the saint has such an intense spiritual
darkness. No one knew she was that tormented," Kolodiejchuk told Time magazine.
"I read one letter to the sisters [of Teresa's Missionaries of Charity], and
their mouths just dropped open. It will give a whole new dimension to the way
people understand her," he added.
Cardinal Angelo Scola, the patriarch of Venice, said Saturday that the letters
showed Teresa was "one of us, that she did all her work as we do, no more no
less."
Even in the depths of doubt, Mother Teresa "always had recourse to the most
elementary form of the exercise of one's will, that of asking Jesus each day to
reveal his face," said Scola, who had already written about the letters in the
Vatican publication Osservatore Romano, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
Mother Teresa was beatified just six years after her death, when late pope John
Paul II set on her a fast track to sainthood. It was something the nun seemed to
have predicted as early as 1962, when she wrote in one letter:
"If I ever become a Saint -- I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I will
continually be absent from Heaven."
Christopher Hitchens ("The Missionary Position") proved she
didn't do much in India and that she took dirty money.
Chrissy would have loved this stuff.
The amazing thing is....many of us have been called liars and worse
for exposing Teresa's "sins" (pun intended! <g>). Now that this has
come out, there will be a huge collective screech by the religious:
"..it's all true, and it's becuz she wus ah ATHIEST!!"
Sheesh.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ronald More-More Moshki" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 01:03:38 AM |
|
|
On Aug 26, 8:35 pm, wrote:
On Aug 26, 8:02 pm, Ronald 'More-More' Moshki <sector_f...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Aug 26, 6:53 pm, "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Agence France-Presse
Last updated 08:56am (Mla time) 08/26/2007
NEW YORK -- Mother Teresa, who is one step short of being made a Catholic saint,
suffered crises of faith for most of her life and even doubted God's existence,
according to a set of newly published letters.
"Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and the emptiness
is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear," the missionary
wrote to one confidant, Reverend Michael Van Der Peet, in 1979.
The letters, some of which she wanted destroyed, appear in "Mother Teresa: Come
Be My Light," due to be published next week, 10 years after her death. Extracts
of the book appear in the latest edition of Time magazine.
In more than 40 letters spanning some 66 years, the ethnic Albanian nun who
devoted her life to working with the poor in the slums of Kolkata in India,
writes of the "darkness," "loneliness" and "torture" she is undergoing.
"Where is my Faith -- even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness
and darkness -- My God -- how painful is this unknown pain -- I have no Faith,"
she wrote in an undated letter addressed to Jesus.
"If there be God -- please forgive me -- When I try to raise my thoughts to
Heaven -- there is such convicting emptiness."
"I call, I cling, I want -- and there is no One to answer -- no One on Whom I
can cling -- no, No One. -- Alone."
In her early life, Mother Teresa, also known as "The Saint of the Gutters," had
visions. In one, she talked to a crucified Jesus on the cross.
But the letters reveal that apart from a brief respite in 1959, she spent most
of the last 50 years of her life doubting God's presence -- much at odds with
her public face.
"The smile," she wrote in one letter, is "a mask."
In another letter, written in 1959, she wrote: "If there be no God -- there can
be no soul -- if there is no Soul then Jesus -- You also are not true."
The book's compiler and editor Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk is a member of Mother
Teresa's Missionaries of Charity and was responsible for petitioning for her
sainthood. She was beatified -- one step short of sainthood -- in 2003.
"I've never read a saint's life where the saint has such an intense spiritual
darkness. No one knew she was that tormented," Kolodiejchuk told Time magazine.
"I read one letter to the sisters [of Teresa's Missionaries of Charity], and
their mouths just dropped open. It will give a whole new dimension to the way
people understand her," he added.
Cardinal Angelo Scola, the patriarch of Venice, said Saturday that the letters
showed Teresa was "one of us, that she did all her work as we do, no more no
less."
Even in the depths of doubt, Mother Teresa "always had recourse to the most
elementary form of the exercise of one's will, that of asking Jesus each day to
reveal his face," said Scola, who had already written about the letters in the
Vatican publication Osservatore Romano, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
Mother Teresa was beatified just six years after her death, when late pope John
Paul II set on her a fast track to sainthood. It was something the nun seemed to
have predicted as early as 1962, when she wrote in one letter:
"If I ever become a Saint -- I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I will
continually be absent from Heaven."
Christopher Hitchens ("The Missionary Position") proved she
didn't do much in India and that she took dirty money.
Chrissy would have loved this stuff.
The amazing thing is....many of us have been called liars and worse
for exposing Teresa's "sins" (pun intended! <g>). Now that this has
come out, there will be a huge collective screech by the religious:
"..it's all true, and it's becuz she wus ah ATHIEST!!"
Sheesh.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
All religionists are atheists who lie to themselves and everyone else.
Then they 'find religion' as it were, ala M/T.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 11:40:16 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 17:35:14 -0700, wrote:
The amazing thing is....many of us have been called liars and worse
for exposing Teresa's "sins" (pun intended! <g>). Now that this has
come out, there will be a huge collective screech by the religious:
"..it's all true, and it's becuz she wus ah ATHIEST!!"
Or they'll just claim it's just a lie by the atheist conspiracy.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "V" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
08 Sep 2007 11:07:28 PM |
|
|
On Aug 26, 6:53?pm, "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Agence France-Presse
Last updated 08:56am (Mla time) 08/26/2007
NEW YORK -- Mother Teresa, who is one step short of being made a Catholic saint,
suffered crises of faith for most of her life and even doubted God's existence,
according to a set of newly published letters.
"Jesus has a very special love for you. As for me, the silence and the emptiness
is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear," the missionary
wrote to one confidant, Reverend Michael Van Der Peet, in 1979.
The letters, some of which she wanted destroyed, appear in "Mother Teresa: Come
Be My Light," due to be published next week, 10 years after her death. Extracts
of the book appear in the latest edition of Time magazine.
In more than 40 letters spanning some 66 years, the ethnic Albanian nun who
devoted her life to working with the poor in the slums of Kolkata in India,
writes of the "darkness," "loneliness" and "torture" she is undergoing.
"Where is my Faith -- even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness
and darkness -- My God -- how painful is this unknown pain -- I have no Faith,"
she wrote in an undated letter addressed to Jesus.
"If there be God -- please forgive me -- When I try to raise my thoughts to
Heaven -- there is such convicting emptiness."
"I call, I cling, I want -- and there is no One to answer -- no One on Whom I
can cling -- no, No One. -- Alone."
In her early life, Mother Teresa, also known as "The Saint of the Gutters," had
visions. In one, she talked to a crucified Jesus on the cross.
But the letters reveal that apart from a brief respite in 1959, she spent most
of the last 50 years of her life doubting God's presence -- much at odds with
her public face.
"The smile," she wrote in one letter, is "a mask."
In another letter, written in 1959, she wrote: "If there be no God -- there can
be no soul -- if there is no Soul then Jesus -- You also are not true."
The book's compiler and editor Reverend Brian Kolodiejchuk is a member of Mother
Teresa's Missionaries of Charity and was responsible for petitioning for her
sainthood. She was beatified -- one step short of sainthood -- in 2003.
"I've never read a saint's life where the saint has such an intense spiritual
darkness. No one knew she was that tormented," Kolodiejchuk told Time magazine.
"I read one letter to the sisters [of Teresa's Missionaries of Charity], and
their mouths just dropped open. It will give a whole new dimension to the way
people understand her," he added.
Cardinal Angelo Scola, the patriarch of Venice, said Saturday that the letters
showed Teresa was "one of us, that she did all her work as we do, no more no
less."
Even in the depths of doubt, Mother Teresa "always had recourse to the most
elementary form of the exercise of one's will, that of asking Jesus each day to
reveal his face," said Scola, who had already written about the letters in the
Vatican publication Osservatore Romano, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
Mother Teresa was beatified just six years after her death, when late pope John
Paul II set on her a fast track to sainthood. It was something the nun seemed to
have predicted as early as 1962, when she wrote in one letter:
"If I ever become a Saint -- I will surely be one of 'darkness.' I will
continually be absent from Heaven."
The atheists should get on the ball and adopt Mother Teresa as their
patron saint.
She is a prime example of what I write about - practicing the virtues
that religions can provide even if you do not believe in God.
If you guys can get organized at American Atheists or UK Atheists vote
her in as your first patron saint before the Pope gets around to it.
That would give you something to argue about... you can't have her she
is our patron saint...no she is ours, we made her a saint first!
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/08/24/2007-08-24_mother_teresas_shocking_struggle_with_fa.html
In any case, religion can provide much in the form of virtues even for
the non believer if they are open to it.
I was discussing 'spiritual aspects of living' on various online
forums. One group was a dedicated atheists discussion list with most
members only offering bitter personal attacks instead of adding
anything substantive to the discussion.
But to be fair to these atheists, I've known many a religious fellow
that are just as bitter, if not more so, than atheists I meet. So just
being 'religious' is not a guarantee of being at peace.
Each man made religion contains perfection's as well as imperfections.
It is up to the practitioner or end user to use the tools in the right
way.
The problem is not the wisdom that is defective.
The problem lies with religious practitioners who are defective in
their practice of this wisdom.
The wisdom works - we don't work the wisdom.
Many times we are too busy for peace. As one atheist list member
wrote, 'It took awhile - far too long, really - but I've finally found
that one can find peace by simply being undisturbed."
Yes, peace is our birthright, if we are not destroying it by our own
actions. In order to slow down enough to be able to use peace as a
tool I needed to apply simplicity and renunciation to my life.
I am not an acetic or total renunciate by any means, but I did have to
let go of many peace destroying habits before making room for inner
peace to enter my life. As we get rid of one thing, it make room for
another thing to enter.
The online discussions based in bitterness brought up the question of
"what guiding light do atheists use to be at peace?"
Not much was offered in reply to my question. I got a few answers here
or there.
It seems whenever the discussion turns to 'inner peace' many of the
people I talk with are silent, this even goes for 'pious' Catholic
priests.
But, one fellow on the forum mentioned 'truth and philosophy,' as his
tools - both of these being good answers for peace generation with
proper application. Philosophy plays a big role in my life as well for
providing tools to live at peace.
I also supplement my spiritual path from many other sources as I will
go into below. I am only interested in practical application of
philosophy though and not bickering and arguing over the unanswerable.
So, I prefer truth based discussions over ego based discussions where
the truth gets overshadowed by rhetoric. As someone once wrote ... "if
you don't know the answer then just say so."
see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=504.0
I was at a philosophy symposium last year and talked with a professor
about a teaching / mentor relationship he had with Ayn Rand.
He went on to say how after a year they broke up the mentor
relationship on a sour note. After I questioned the professor about
Rand's personal life as well as her state of inner peace and
happiness, I could see that with all her talents of 'smarts' she was
bankrupt when the subject turned to peace smarts, contentment and
happiness.
She was ego based and not practice based when it came to peace
generation.
Furthermore, she not only destroyed her peace, but from the
information that came out of our discussion, the then student's peace
was disturbed at the time and it still sounded disturbed decades later
as a distinguished professor and author. Academic smarts are not the
same as peace smarts.
The branch of philosophy that deals with the study of ethics and
virtue has also helped me along in life.
What is virtue and ethics?
Some authorities define it as 'excellence of the soul' or moral
excellence. (Although the Greeks thought of 'soul and form' in
different terms than say Christians think of soul. For example, the
soul of an eye would be its ability to 'see' and whether this ability
was good or bad would decide whether the soul of an eye had 'virtue'
or excellence.)
The concept for understanding virtue can be told in a story of the
'Ring of Gyges' or 'Myth of Gyges'. This story was taken from Plato's
Republic and recounts how the shepherd Gyges finds a ring on a hand
extending from a crack in the earth and removes the ring from the hand
and puts it on. Gyges discovers the magic ring gives him powers to be
invisible at will and then uses these powers to kill the king, rape
the queen and take over the kingdom. As James Allen tells us in "As A
Man Thinketh" - "Circumstances does not make the man - it reveals him
to himself"
What is virtuous behavior in a flourishing human being?
In readily understandable terms we can help define virtue for us from
this story of Gyges and by asking ourselves the question, "What would
we do if no one was looking or we knew we would not get caught?"
No heaven, no hell, no God, no karma, no police, nothing but us and
our virtue?
Would our actions promote our inner peace as well as the inner peace
of others or would our actions destroy our peace and the peace of
others?
Virtue is not learned from the classroom, other than memorizing
definitions. Remember, a fool can only say what he knows ~ it takes a
wise man to know what he says.
How do we become a success at living a virtuous life and really know
what we say?
As a lecture on Aristotle mentioned: "We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." We develop it by
practice. Practicing 'excellence of the human soul' is how.
Beside the philosophical studies of ethics and virtue, a Buddhist or
Taoist practice is another good peace developer for anyone to adopt
whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
Buddhists are generally not required to believe or not believe in God,
so anyone can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their
religious beliefs or lack thereof.
But be careful with your Buddhist studies if you decide to head in
this direction. For Buddhism is riddled with useless ego based dogma.
If you can sift through the useless as a freethinker and find the gems
you will do well.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=9.0
Personally, I've settled on the essence of Buddhism and that is what I
work on and find much peace with this type of simplified Buddhist
practice.
"The Three Pillars of Buddhism"
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing non-
clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
In addition to the three pillars, we can use the eightfold path to
guide us. Within the three pillars and the eightfold path are a
lifetime of practice.
No need to get lost in endless debate and spend your precious time in
idle talk that only serves to massage one's ego. Plenty of work to do
right here, right now, unless we prefer to keep our minds distracted
through our perpetual complexities we are so addicted to.
We do need to give some thought of the 'right' way to live as the
eightfold path tells us, so we should never try and be devoid of
thought in our lives, but instead look for a balance and let thought
serve us for once.
"The Eightfold Path"
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong?
By peace.
You learn what destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as
what promotes you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you
need a teacher for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to
peace as the best teacher?
The Five precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at
peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice.
"The Five Precepts"
1. Refrain from Killing
2. Refrain from Stealing
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct
4. Refrain from False Speech
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants
Once I am at peace, I can share with others about finding peace for
themselves, which is the secondary reason I practice.
I have no interest in practicing Buddhism for extinguishing
reincarnation. These "fear based" reasons for being a Buddhist are not
authentic or natural - the persons actions are based on fear or
negative consequences otherwise they would not do them. My actions are
based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my
choice.
Remember what I wrote about above with the myth of Gyges?
Take away the fear of pain of karma or hell and you have a different
person?
A truly virtuous life remains the same irrespective of such fears and
is not based on them.
I enjoy life and realize that due to natural law, suffering comes
about as part of the process and I accept it as a fair trade off for
the privilege of living.
Buddhism helps makes this trade off of life and pain more in my favor
by lending me support to live a life at peace. I do not practice
Buddhism to earn merit for the next life - I practice Buddhism for my
own peace generation in THIS LIFE.
You see, once a religion requires faith, this is where I leave off
with it's teaching.
I only use the tools that can be applied in this life that can be
tested to yield peace.
Otherwise, if I succumb to fantasy notions I start heading towards the
road of delusion.
So whether it is heaven, hell, reincarnation or chanting 'Namo
Amitabha Buddha' for the Buddha to carry me off to the pure
land...none of this can be proven as fact and is just based on ego
based man and their fantasies.
Still, I am not shy about benefiting from any religious path that
offers tools for me to live at peace.
I take from ALL spiritual paths without prejudice, my only requirement
is that the religious or spiritual tool be one that offers peace. Any
tool always has to pass the peace test, this way it speaks of a
'higher authority' than just man made dogma - it speaks of universal
truth.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=470.0
But, this all has to be done in balance.
For there are many true things that are good - but done in excess they
become bad.
For, even though air and water give us life, they will also give us
death when in excess.
So always seek balance.
How flexible can you be when it comes to finding tools for living at
peace within the worlds spiritual paths?
Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from the Muslim's prayer
schedule to use myself. The Muslims have a practice of praying five
times a day to Allah. For those that do not know, Allah is the same
God of the Jews and of the Old Testament that the Christians worship.
The Muslims pray at sun up, when the sun is at its zenith at noon,
when the sun is part way down in the afternoon, when the sun sets and
when they go to bed. Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from
the Muslim's prayer schedule to use as a reminder to be mindful of
"gratitude" in my life.
If you do not want to develop a practice of gratitude, then what about
using it as a reminder 5 times a day to relax your breath, practice
mindfulness and bring your thoughts back to the present moment? When
you have come to a point of gratitude for being able to open your eyes
in the morning and being able to take a breath of air everything else
is just gravy so to speak. Gratitude plays an important part with
finding inner peace, just as being mindful of the present moment and
being aware of anything that causes this mindfulness to wander.
If I could define the basis of my spiritual practice it would be that
of peace and practicality. Inner peace is the foundation of it all,
for we cannot have world peace without first being at peace within. I
used to be a Catholic for many years of my life as well as a
freethinking Buddhist before becoming an agnostic freethinker.
See::
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=318.0
A few years ago a lady moderator on a Christian forum banned me for
claiming that God is peace, telling me "you don't know who God is."
Funny thing about the Christians. I was a Christian as well as a
freethinking Buddhist in my earlier life and 100% of the Christian
forums have banned me, and 95% of the Buddhist forums have also banned
me.
This says something about the Christians and Buddhists and whether
they practice what they preach? The Christians chanting the Golden
rule of Reciprocity and Charity and Humility? and the Buddhists
preaching Compassion, Do No Harm and Egoless Non-Self?
Why am I banned so much?
Is it for getting in fights or flame wars?
No...I get banned for writing about truth.
When someone disagrees with you, apply the law of opposites to get at
the truth.
This removes the personalities and focusses on the principles and
helps you see the entire picture.
If God is not peace, then God must be the opposite of peace...turmoil
and unrest.
I prefer to believe God is peace and God is the authority on the
subject of peace.
The difference between an authority and an authoritarian is this. An
authority speaks from a place of truth and such speaks as an
authority. Whereas an authoritarian rules by fear and not by truth.
For the truth stands on it own and the authoritarian stands on their
ego.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=343.0
The Buddhists have a set of rules they use to determine what are
definitive truths and what are not. This can also be applied to such
questions.
1) Do not rely on just the person but rely on the doctrine.
2) With respect to the doctrine, do not rely on just the words, but
rely on the meaning.
3) With respect to the meaning, do not rely on just meaning requiring
interpretation, but rely on meaning that is definitive.
4) With respect to definitive meaning, do not rely on just dualistic
understanding but rely on the wisdom of the direct perception of the
truth.
Bringing this worship business back to the topic of religion, do we
worship a higher power out of fear for if we do not worship this
higher power we will be killed?
Sounds like the aliens in an old "Superman" movies that came to earth
to tell us to bow down to them or else?
If there was a God or a higher power does this entity need us to 'bow
down' to a 'big ego' or does God need us to 'act right' to our
companions as well as to act right to ourselves?
Bowing down produces no peace, whether in the person that demands it
due to an over bloated ego, nor does it foster peace within the person
forced to worship against their will. But this is how man made
religions work - they are run by fear, greed and ego.
I prefer to be truth and peace based. Many think God is like 'Santa
Claus' and must come through with their demands, just as we did as
greedy children making up a long, impossible list for Santa to fill.
This smacks of the ego based practitioner.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0
The ego based person prays thinking they know better than God does.
The truly spiritual based person prays for God's will and not their
own, for if they truly knew better than God...the practitioner would
be the God.
Nothing wrong with asking if one is a believer, but always end such
requests humbly with accepting Gods or a higher powers will with
gratitude.
Can you imagine if everyone's prayers were answered according to our
self centered and conflicting demands? The world would be in real
turmoil then.
No, I prefer to make the God of Peace and the God of Nature two Gods I
serve and as such my actions can be evaluated in simple terms of
bringing me in harmony with these two Gods or not.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Many times we violate the three branches of laws that govern us and
constantly ask God or a higher power to give us 'hall passes' to avoid
the consequences of our actions. Such prayer is again ego based,
thinking we should have preference over the rest of the world for
wishing to be exempt from our actions
We are all governed by these three areas of laws.
1 - Natural Law
2 - Divine or spiritual law (if you believe in spiritual matters)
3 - Manmade laws
I find that sometime spiritual practitioners neglect the natural laws
that govern our bodies and suffer in this area from lack of living a
balanced life.
Some of us forget we are spiritual beings residing in physical bodies
living in physical world and governed my both spiritual and physical
or natural laws in addition to man made laws.
We need some effort with spiritual work and some effort in physical
work for a good balance. Some of us think we can defy man made laws as
well as divine or spiritual laws.
But no matter how defiant the person is...we all answer to natural
law. We all bow to nature in the end.
Anyway, you are free to think or not think of God or higher power as
you see fit. I am only a 'minor authority' on peace and do not wish to
be an authoritarian, so I allow freedom for all to think as they wish
and only ask the same courtesy be extended to me - reciprocity.
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
This applies to atheists as well as the religious or the pious. To
avoid prejudice, we have to be careful of 'black or white' absolutes
if you claim to truth based and not ego based in your beliefs. I work
to keep an open mind for all religions as well as those persons that
believe nothing.
When I discussed Christian principles one time an Atheist piped up to
say "the Christians have no principles," and "Jesus was a fabled
creation of the Christians."
When we sperate the personalities from the principles it makes looking
at things much easier. When I am referring to Christian principles I
speak of such things as charity, works of mercy and the golden rule,
where the emphasis is on principles and not on the personalities of
the church.
For even if Jesus was just created as a fable, these Christian
principles are universal truths in their own right if one desires to
live a life at peace and promote the inner peace of others in this
world. Is it any different from the Taoists following the legend of
Lao Tzu? Always look at what is said and not at who says what this
divorces the personalties and prejudice from your search for truth.
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry
To give drink to the thirsty
To clothe the naked
To harbour the harbourless
To visit the sick
To ransom the captive
To bury the dead
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant
To counsel the doubtful
To admonish sinners
To bear wrongs patiently
To forgive offenses willingly
To comfort the afflicted
To pray for the living and the dead
You see, by applying the rule of reciprocity or rule of opposites we
can see if we were in these positions of the needy mentioned above, we
would like such charity bestowed on us for the most part. What about
our children, parents and loved ones? Wouldn't we wish the same for
them? We have no loved ones? What about our neighbors?
The Christian ethic says to treat one another as we would wish to be
treated. As we give ~ so we receive. Even if an atheist, as we give
peace - we receive inner peace as many of the tools I mentioned above
do not require belief in God, they only requirement is a desire to be
at peace and to bring peace to others. This is the Christian doctrine
in a nutshell, when we put principles before personalities.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds
and water these seeds within you as well. As James Allen wrote in "As
a man Thinketh" ~ To think well of all, to be cheerful with all, to
patiently learn to find the good in all - such unselfish thoughts are
the very portals of heaven; and to dwell day by day in thoughts of
peace toward every creature will bring abounding peace to their
possessor."
This is universal truth that transcends man made religions.
Remember, we do not have to do it perfectly. Just look for direction
and forget perfection - for perfection or range is of the ego and form
is of the soul.
There are many tools for peace within the worlds spiritual paths, no
one said these paths are perfect, in fact, it was once said that
walking the spiritual path is akin to walking on a razors edge. But if
we bother to be honest, non prejudicial and to look, we can find tools
that can help us be at peace whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
In the Gnostic gospel of Thomas, it was reported:
"The disciples asked Jesus, when will the kingdom come? Jesus replied,
'The kingdom will not come by watching for it. It will not be said -
look here or look there. Rather, the kingdom of heaven is spread out
upon the earth and men do not see it."
What does this quote mean for the atheist as well as the religious
minded person?
For the atheist or as a nonbeliever of an afterlife:
THIS LIFE IS IT - This life is either heaven or hell as you make it.
Just grabbing all the gusto you can will not give you peace.
It requires much more than that - for greed is never satisfied by
attainment, it is only satisfied by contentment. We are reminded to be
mindful of each moment given to us and to be grateful for this life.
Being of service to others and charitable actions help lead us to
contentment and peace.
There are 3 components for a happy life: Contentment, love or
compassion and gratitude. When we realize that happiness and
contentment are there for the taking and that they are independent
from our circumstances it sometimes can sink in that there is nothing
stopping us from being content and happy this very instant.
It is your choice alone as to whether you make this life one of peace
for yourself and others or not, but in either case you will reap what
you sow. "Just as a life of virtue yields its own reward, a life of
vice yields its own punishment" - Plutarch
For the religious minded person and believer in an afterlife:
Jesus' saying will foreshadow things to come. For if we make this
earthly life hell for ourselves and others, we have a slim chance of
doing better in an afterlife. Just paying lip service to religious
principles and doing the opposite will not do it.
Again mindfulness of our actions is most important. An old Buddhist
saying sheds some light on our journey "when one eye is kept on the
destination, it only leaves one eye left for the journey." If we keep
fixated on the after life, and can't find peace in the present life,
we can lose sight of the fact that our actions can turn the present
moment in a living hell for us as well as others.
Actions speak louder than words and this especially applies to such
religious beliefs. By applying the rule of reciprocity and Christian
ethics and charity we have better chance at entering any afterlife and
in the interim help make this life a peaceful one for all that dwell
on earth.
So, whether you are on either end of this spectrum of beliefs, the
choices are the same as to the direction we take when it comes to
inner peace.
The seeds of enlightenment are all around us - we only have to seek
the truth and come to peace within to realize this.
A quote on finding peace from Thich Nhat Hanh
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way.
This means that we can realize peace right here in the present moment
with our look, our smile, our words and our actions.
Peace work in not a means, each step we take should be peace.
Every step we take should be joy.
Every step we take should be happiness.
Are you massaging Mother Earth every time your foot touches her?
Are you planting seeds of joy and peace?
Enlightenment, peace and joy will not be granted by someone else.
The well is within us and if we dig deeply in the present moment the
water will spring forth.
If we are determined, we can do it.
We don't need the future.
We can smile, breath fully and relax Everything we want is here in the
present moment.
Peace is every step.
Shall we continue our journey?"
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sanitys Little Helper" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
09 Sep 2007 04:51:27 AM |
|
|
V <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in
news:1189310848.301170.24380@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com to alt.atheism:
<snip>
OI! PISSHEAD!
You already posted this nonsense, and we already put you down for it.
Na zdrowie
--
David Silverman C.B.E.
Sane person
Sensible drinker
Empath - except when sorely provoked
aa #2208
Not authentic without this signature.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/proselytising/
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <=atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
26 Aug 2007 07:48:15 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:53:59 -0600, _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Huh. She was smarter than I'd previous thought...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Just because it's inexplicted doesn't mean it's inexplicable."
- Dr. House
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 05:48:51 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:48:15 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:53:59 -0600, _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Huh. She was smarter than I'd previous thought...
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "bramble" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 03:15:50 PM |
|
|
On 27 ago, 11:48, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:48:15 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:53:59 -0600, _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Huh. She was smarter than I'd previous thought...
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
for once I am happy to be in accord with you. A religious person has
some doubts now and then for a time. Then they get used at the idea
that there is not any prove of the existence of god. But once he is
well aware of this, he saws no advantage in rejecting the faith for
this is a social artifact. Most people do not want to challenge the
social constructions, like religions and other customs.
Bramble
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 04:52:03 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:15:50 -0700, bramble <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com> wrote:
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
for once I am happy to be in accord with you. A religious person has
some doubts now and then for a time. Then they get used at the idea
that there is not any prove of the existence of god. But once he is
well aware of this, he saws no advantage in rejecting the faith for
this is a social artifact. Most people do not want to challenge the
social constructions, like religions and other customs.
You should be in accord with me all the time. I believe in the 11th commandment
- Christ said - I give you a new commandment - that you love one another as I
have loved you.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ronald More-More Moshki" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 05:40:25 PM |
|
|
On Aug 27, 5:52 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:15:50 -0700, bramble <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote:
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
for once I am happy to be in accord with you. A religious person has
some doubts now and then for a time. Then they get used at the idea
that there is not any prove of the existence of god. But once he is
well aware of this, he saws no advantage in rejecting the faith for
this is a social artifact. Most people do not want to challenge the
social constructions, like religions and other customs.
You should be in accord with me all the time. I believe in the 11th commandment
- Christ said - I give you a new commandment - that you love one another as I
have loved you.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
based on His lack of dating experience, this could have been
a call for men to 'get together'.
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
28 Aug 2007 05:10:45 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:40:25 -0700, Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
<sector_four@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 27, 5:52 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:15:50 -0700, bramble <leopoldo.perd...@gmail.com> wrote:
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
for once I am happy to be in accord with you. A religious person has
some doubts now and then for a time. Then they get used at the idea
that there is not any prove of the existence of god. But once he is
well aware of this, he saws no advantage in rejecting the faith for
this is a social artifact. Most people do not want to challenge the
social constructions, like religions and other customs.
You should be in accord with me all the time. I believe in the 11th commandment
- Christ said - I give you a new commandment - that you love one another as I
have loved you.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
based on His lack of dating experience, this could have been
a call for men to 'get together'.
Ah, good old "More-More', always looking for a man to pickup.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ronald More-More Moshki" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 12:29:43 PM |
|
|
On Aug 27, 6:48 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:48:15 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:53:59 -0600, _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Huh. She was smarter than I'd previous thought...
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
How many have died for "belief"? How many are dying now, i.e., being
murdered?
They are dying because they have different names for their Invisible
Monsters
they are not sure even exist.
Maybe there is a good reason for all of this mayhem and madness
but probably not.
.
|
|
|
| User: "duke" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 04:50:10 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:29:43 -0700, Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
<sector_four@yahoo.com> wrote:
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
How many have died for "belief"? How many are dying now, i.e., being
murdered?
You ask a question with no answer. Christians live by the new commandment from
Christ - that we love one another as God has loved us.
Now the Muslims believe to kill in the name of God.
They are dying because they have different names for their Invisible
Monsters they are not sure even exist.
Sure? That's a strange comment without basis.
Maybe there is a good reason for all of this mayhem and madness
but probably not.
Yeah, don't jack around with another man's religion.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
|
|
|
| User: "Martin Phipps" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 08:55:00 PM |
|
|
On Aug 28, 5:50 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
Christians live by the new commandment from
Christ
Jesus never existed.
See http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
Martin
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Martin Phipps" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 07:00:09 AM |
|
|
On Aug 27, 6:48 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:48:15 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:53:59 -0600, _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Huh. She was smarter than I'd previous thought...
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God
And atheists sometimes wonder if God really exists. We can turn to
the Bible and see that it is a load of crap. What scares us is that a
Christian can turn to the Bible to renew their faith. It's just an
old book.
, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
Then maybe you should spend sometime with the underprivileged
yourself.
Martin
.
|
|
|
| User: "bramble" |
|
| Title: Re: __ Breaking News: Mother Teresa: "I have no Faith" ! <= atheist, phony christian, now burning in HELL __ |
27 Aug 2007 03:22:36 PM |
|
|
On 27 ago, 13:00, Martin Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Aug 27, 6:48 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 19:48:15 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 16:53:59 -0600, _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
Mother Teresa doubted God's existence
Huh. She was smarter than I'd previous thought...
With no proof of God, she kept the heading she knew was right. We all "doubt"
or "question" the existence of God
And atheists sometimes wonder if God really exists. We can turn to
the Bible and see that it is a load of crap. What scares us is that a
Christian can turn to the Bible to renew their faith. It's just an
old book.
, and she did too. The Nicene Creed says "we
believe in God", not that we know for sure. And living deep in the
underprivileged and hungry would leave us all to wonder if God exists.
Then maybe you should spend sometime with the underprivileged
yourself.
Martin
Atheists have checked many time the Bible, for we do not want to be
duped by people that invoke the Bible as a prove. Once you study a
little bit the Bibble, you can see clearly that it is nothing but a
big lot of horseshit.
To start with, an atheist do not see on his daily experience any prove
that a god exists.
So, the only this that rest to be utterly convinced is to read a
little bit the bible.
The pastors and priests know quite well, the Bible is worthless. It
is worse than worthless is a great heap of lies.
Bramble
.
|
|
|
| | | |
