Although we know prayer doesn't work and those praying are delusional,
isn't there some type of charge that can be brought against them?
They believe that prayer works and so they believe that harm will come
to those the prayers are directed against. If I had a gun filled with
blanks (but I thought they were bullets) and I fired at someone with
the intent to harm, couldn't I be charged with attempted murder?

On Aug 26, 7:41 pm, "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net> wrote:

Imprecatory Prayer: may Kent Will's "god" punish and destroy him for
his venal mortal sins !! <= hey, that feels kinda cool ....

Pastor calls on his flock to curse 'enemies of God'
Group that asked IRS to probe church faces vengeful prayers
K. Connie Kang, Los Angeles Times

Sunday, August 26, 2007

Until last week, "imprecatory prayer" was not in many people's
vocabularies. But then the Rev. Wiley Drake, pastor of the First
Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park (Orange County) urged his
supporters to use Psalm 109 to focus prayers directed at the
"enemies of God" - including the leaders of Americans United for
Separation of Church and State.

Drake was urging the use of imprecatory prayer - prayers for
another's misfortune or for vengeance against God's enemies. Now
such prayer is the talk of blogs and letters to the editor.

The controversy flared Aug. 14, the day the Washington, D.C. -based
group asked the Internal Revenue Service to probe the tax-exempt
status of Drake's congregation.

Churches, as tax-exempt, are prohibited from campaigning for
candidates. Drake earlier had issued a statement on a church
letterhead endorsing former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, a
Republican presidential candidate.

Drake told his supporters that he attempted to talk to Americans
United for the Separation of Church and State about the issue. He
cited a verse from the Gospel of Matthew that says, "If your brother
sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of
you." Drake said his efforts were rebuffed. "Now that all efforts
have been exhausted, we must begin our Imprecatory Prayer, at the
key points of the parliamentary role in the earth where we live,"
Drake wrote.

Under the heading, "HOW TO PRAY," he listed all 31 verses of Psalm
109, in which King David appeals to divine justice. Drake provided
his congregation the King James version of the psalm, including
Verse 9, which says: "Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a
widow."

On the advice of his attorneys, Drake has declined to be interviewed.

Experts in Scripture say it's easy to misread David's intentions and
the purpose of imprecatory prayer in general.

There must be a distinction between one's personal enemies and the
enemies of God, said Sister Thomas Bernard MacConnell, founder of
the Spirituality Center at Mount St. Mary's College in Los Angeles
and a veteran teacher of spiritual direction.

"It is very possible that my enemies are not God's enemies," she
said. Referring to Drake's targets, she added, "Who is to say that
those people are God's enemies?"

The Rev. Kurt Fredrickson, who directs doctoral programs for 700
working pastors from around the world at Fuller Theological
Seminary, says imprecatory prayers are atypical.

"They are more of a window into the sinfulness of human beings," said
Fredrickson, an assistant professor of pastoral ministry at the
Pasadena school. "Normally when we think about praying, we're
thinking about prayers of adoration, prayers of confession, prayers
for someone we're concerned about who is sick or going through a
hard time, or those sort of prayers for ourselves - not the sort of
vindictive, revengeful statements. These prayers are contrary to the
way of Jesus."

The Rev. John Goldingay, a professor of the Old Testament at Fuller,
said one value of imprecatory prayer is that it asks God to take
action - not for humans to take matters into their own hands.

Other faiths take varying views of such prayers.

Imam Ali Siddiqui, of the Islamic Society of Corona/Norco in Corona
(Riverside County), said there is no tradition of imprecatory prayer
in Islam. But there is a prayer in which the believer asks Allah to
"liberate me from people who are trying to hurt me," Siddiqui said.

Rabbi Stephen Julius Stein, of Wilshire Boulevard Temple in Los
Angeles, said the kind of prayer called by Drake is not "normative"
in Jewish tradition.

"We ask God certainly to do justice and to bring those who are
errant to justice, but what I would consider an imprecatory prayer
is not normative in Judaism," he said.

The Rev. Dickson Yagi, a Southern Baptist pastor, said his
denomination has no tradition of using prayer to curse anyone. "This
would be quite shocking to all Southern Baptists," he said.

"In the New Testament, Jesus Christ comes and says, 'Forgive your
enemies, pray for your enemies, love your enemies,' " Yagi said.
"This idea of enemies has really changed in the New Testament. We
cannot do those things, because Jesus Christ taught us to forgive
our enemies, love our enemies, pray for our enemies and he died for
his enemies."

Pastor Wiley Drake Calls for Imprecatory Prayer against So-Called
Religious Liberty Watchdog Group

Contact: Wiley Drake, 714-865-8132

MEDIA ADVISORY, Aug. 14 /Christian Newswire/ -- In light of the
recent attack from the enemies of God I ask the children of God to
go into action with Imprecatory Prayer. Especially against Americans
United for Separation of Church and State. I made an attempt to go
to them via Matt 18:15 but they refused to talk to me. Specifically
target Joe Conn or Jeremy Learing. They are those who lead the
attack. (You can see their press release attack atwww.au.org)

Imprecatory prayer, is now our duty

Now that all efforts have been exhausted, we must begin our
Imprecatory Prayer, at the key points of the parliamentary role in
the earth where we live.

John Calvin gave the church its marching orders from Scripture. The
righteous have dominion, but only through imprecatory prayer against
the ungodly.

David as our Old Testament shepherd gives us many Imprecatory
prayers, and can be found to be in best focus in Psalm 109. Also
chapters 55, 58, 68, 69, and 83

Pray these back to God and He will answer.

Jesus in Matthew 23: 13, 15, 16, 23, 24, 27, and 29 gave us our New
Testament marching orders as well.

Let us join Paul and declare anathema upon anyone" who loves not the
Lord Jesus." I Cor 16:22

Church father Martin Luther, led us by saying..."If any of the
enemies of God's people belong to God's election, the church's
prayer against them giveth way to their conversion, and seeketh no
more than that the judgment should follow them, only until they
acknowledge their sin, turn, and seek God."

How to pray

Please join us, with Bible in hand, and let us do battle against the
enemies of God.

Everyday telephonic prayer meeting (for those who want to pray)

Every Day 5:00 to 6:00 a.m. Pacific time zone

Call- 1-605-772-3900

Put in access code # 399430

(Come on the telephone line for a few minutes or all of the time,
but let us all pray.

Discussion on this event can be heard daily Monday through Thursday
at 9:00 am PST "The Wiley Drake Show" onwww.crusaderadio.comLet us
pray and see what our God will do.

109:1 Be not silent, O God of my praise!
2 For wicked and deceitful mouths are opened against me,
speaking against me with lying tongues.
3 They encircle me with words of hate,
and attack me without cause.
4 In return for my love they accuse me,
but I give myself to prayer. [1]
5 So they reward me evil for good,
and hatred for my love.

6 Appoint a wicked man against him;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him come forth guilty;
let his prayer be counted as sin!
8 May his days be few;
may another take his office!
9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow!
10 May his children wander about and beg,
seeking food far from the ruins they inhabit!
11 May the creditor seize all that he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his toil!
12 Let there be none to extend kindness to him,
nor any to pity his fatherless children!
13 May his posterity be cut off;
may his name be blotted out in the second generation!
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the Lord,
and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out!
15 Let them be before the Lord continually,
that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth!

16 For he did not remember to show kindness,
but pursued the poor and needy
and the brokenhearted, to put them to death.
17 He loved to curse; let curses come [2] upon him!
He did not delight in blessing; may it be far [3] from him!
18 He clothed himself with cursing as his coat;
may it soak [4] into his body like water,
like oil into his bones!
19 May it be like a garment that he wraps around him,
like a belt that he puts on every day!
20 May this be the reward of my accusers from the Lord,
of those who speak evil against my life!

21 But you, O God my Lord,
deal on my behalf for your name's sake;
because your steadfast love is good, deliver me!
22 For I am poor and needy,
and my heart is stricken within me.
23 I am gone like a shadow at evening;
I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees are weak through fasting;
my body has become gaunt, with no fat.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers;
when they see me, they wag their heads.

26 Help me, O Lord my God!
Save me according to your steadfast love!
27 Let them know that this is your hand;
you, O Lord, have done it!
28 Let them curse, but you will bless!
They arise and are put to shame, but your servant will be glad!
29 May my accusers be clothed with dishonor;
may they be wrapped in their own shame as in a cloak!

30 With my mouth I will give great thanks to the Lord;
I will praise him in the midst of the throng.
31 For he stands at the right hand of the needy one,
to save him from those who condemn his soul to death.

Although we know prayer doesn't work and those praying are delusional,
isn't there some type of charge that can be brought against them?
They believe that prayer works and so they believe that harm will come
to those the prayers are directed against. If I had a gun filled with
blanks (but I thought they were bullets) and I fired at someone with
the intent to harm, couldn't I be charged with attempted murder?

These are first rate lunatics!