| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
31 Aug 2005 06:53:48 AM |
| Object: |
A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3 |
IN OUR EMAIL:: A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3
From : Keith [delete]
Sent : Sunday, August 28, 2005 3:09 PM
To : The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
Subject : A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3
As a frequent visitor to your excellent website, I would like to make an
observation about Article VI, Clause 3 (i.e., the "Religious Test Ban
Clause." This is why I am writing an e-mail rather than posting to your
guestbook.
I have observed that nearly all of the clauses in the Constitution which
prohibit something (many of which are located in Sections 9 and 10 of
Article I) are of the essential form, "No...shall be..." Clause 3 of
Article VI, however, reads, "[N]o religious test shall EVER be required as
a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
(Emphasis mine.)
My point is, if the extraordinary use of the word "ever" to qualify the ban
on religious tests isn't evidence of the importance that the Framers placed
on church-state separation, then what is?
Sincerely,
Keith [delete]
**************************************
The writer brings up a very important point most people seem totally
unaware of
That particular clauae is probably the only clause in the entire
Constitution that cannot be amended.
That does indicate that they were making a very important point.
***************************************************************
Posting and reading mostly from alt.politics.usa.constitution and
occasionally from alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
| User: "cpt banjo" |
|
| Title: Re: A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3 |
31 Aug 2005 03:43:44 PM |
|
|
wrote:
IN OUR EMAIL:: A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3
From : Keith [delete]
Sent : Sunday, August 28, 2005 3:09 PM
To : The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
Subject : A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3
As a frequent visitor to your excellent website, I would like to make an
observation about Article VI, Clause 3 (i.e., the "Religious Test Ban
Clause." This is why I am writing an e-mail rather than posting to your
guestbook.
I have observed that nearly all of the clauses in the Constitution which
prohibit something (many of which are located in Sections 9 and 10 of
Article I) are of the essential form, "No...shall be..." Clause 3 of
Article VI, however, reads, "[N]o religious test shall EVER be required as
a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
(Emphasis mine.)
My point is, if the extraordinary use of the word "ever" to qualify the ban
on religious tests isn't evidence of the importance that the Framers placed
on church-state separation, then what is?
Sincerely,
Keith [delete]
**************************************
The writer brings up a very important point most people seem totally
unaware of
That particular clauae is probably the only clause in the entire
Constitution that cannot be amended.
That does indicate that they were making a very important point.
They were making an important point, but it hardly follows that the
clause can't be amended.
The only part of the Constitution that appears at first glance to be
amendment-proof at the present time is that which establishes equal
representation for the States in the Senate -- see the last clause of
Article V. But a case could be made that even this could be amended,
despite the express language of the Constitution. Indeed, the concept
of an unamendable constitutional or statutory provision seems
self-contradictory.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3 |
01 Sep 2005 06:40:10 AM |
|
|
"cpt banjo" <cptbanjo@aol.com> wrote:
:|buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
:|> IN OUR EMAIL:: A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3
:|>
:|> From : Keith [delete]
:|> Sent : Sunday, August 28, 2005 3:09 PM
:|> To : The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
:|> Subject : A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3
:|>
:|> As a frequent visitor to your excellent website, I would like to make an
:|> observation about Article VI, Clause 3 (i.e., the "Religious Test Ban
:|> Clause." This is why I am writing an e-mail rather than posting to your
:|> guestbook.
:|>
:|> I have observed that nearly all of the clauses in the Constitution which
:|> prohibit something (many of which are located in Sections 9 and 10 of
:|> Article I) are of the essential form, "No...shall be..." Clause 3 of
:|> Article VI, however, reads, "[N]o religious test shall EVER be required as
:|> a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
:|> (Emphasis mine.)
:|>
:|> My point is, if the extraordinary use of the word "ever" to qualify the ban
:|> on religious tests isn't evidence of the importance that the Framers placed
:|> on church-state separation, then what is?
:|>
:|> Sincerely,
:|> Keith [delete]
:|> **************************************
:|> The writer brings up a very important point most people seem totally
:|> unaware of
:|>
:|> That particular clauae is probably the only clause in the entire
:|> Constitution that cannot be amended.
:|>
:|> That does indicate that they were making a very important point.
:|
:|
:|They were making an important point, but it hardly follows that the
:|clause can't be amended.
Oh?
What could they amended it to that would still retain
"No religious test shall ever be required as
a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
***************************************************************
Posting and reading mostly from alt.politics.usa.constitution and
occasionally from alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members]
***************************************************************
.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
****************************************************************
THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
****************************************************************
.
|
|
|
| User: "cpt banjo" |
|
| Title: Re: A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3 |
01 Sep 2005 12:33:58 PM |
|
|
I'm suggesting that the Constitution could be amended to delete the
entire sentence. In other words, no part of the Constitutional is
immune to the amendment process, except maybe for the
equal-sufferage-in-the-Senate provision.
.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
|
| Title: Re: A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3 |
01 Sep 2005 02:21:40 PM |
|
|
cpt banjo wrote:
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote:
IN OUR EMAIL:: A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3
From : Keith [delete]
Sent : Sunday, August 28, 2005 3:09 PM
To : The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
Subject : A brief observation on Article VI, Clause 3
As a frequent visitor to your excellent website, I would like to make an
observation about Article VI, Clause 3 (i.e., the "Religious Test Ban
Clause." This is why I am writing an e-mail rather than posting to your
guestbook.
I have observed that nearly all of the clauses in the Constitution which
prohibit something (many of which are located in Sections 9 and 10 of
Article I) are of the essential form, "No...shall be..." Clause 3 of
Article VI, however, reads, "[N]o religious test shall EVER be required as
a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
(Emphasis mine.)
My point is, if the extraordinary use of the word "ever" to qualify the ban
on religious tests isn't evidence of the importance that the Framers placed
on church-state separation, then what is?
Sincerely,
Keith [delete]
**************************************
The writer brings up a very important point most people seem totally
unaware of
That particular clauae is probably the only clause in the entire
Constitution that cannot be amended.
That does indicate that they were making a very important point.
They were making an important point, but it hardly follows that the
clause can't be amended.
The only part of the Constitution that appears at first glance to be
amendment-proof at the present time is that which establishes equal
representation for the States in the Senate -- see the last clause of
Article V. But a case could be made that even this could be amended,
despite the express language of the Constitution. Indeed, the concept
of an unamendable constitutional or statutory provision seems
self-contradictory.
One would first need to amend Article V, which is *extremely* unlikely to get
ratified. After that, it would be perfectly legal to amend the Constitution
again.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking,
which leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy."
- Robert Anton Wilson
.
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