On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:25:41 +0100, Martin Willett
<mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Getting close to requiring a girl to have an abortion, if she can't
prove herself to be capable of supporting the child?

No, she could also give the child up for adoption.

That option is available, would you force a woman to give her child to
strangers?

No, but I wouldn't give her the option of keeping the baby, living an
independent life as the head of a household and making the state pay for
all of it. If she wanted to keep the baby she could go to a workhouse or
find some person or body who would act as financial guarantor throughout
the minority of the child (the child's father, her parents, her lesbian
life-partner, her church, a charity, an insurance policy or whatever).
This would act as a strong disincentive for women to get into this
situation of living parasitically off the state.

There is no basic human right to get the rest of your community
to pay for the child they really didn't want you to have.

And there is no right to any kind of welfare, however we "liberals"
have enacted laws to provide basic support to the less fortunate.

Because we have been stupid and ideologically blinkered and ignored
basic biological realities. The undeserving poor know they can put a gun
to their head and say "feed me or I'll make you feel guilty!"

What sort of a community would want
unemployable teenage girls to get pregnant and become a financial drain
on them bringing up unwanted bastards in poverty and multiple social
deprivation?

The religious community that opposes teaching practical birth control.
And the conservative business people that profit from the welfare
system.
Rent subsidies for landlords, food stamps for grocery stores, medical
coverage for doctors.

Those are the last females I would like to see ever give
birth and yet they receive more financial support than any others.

Nonsense the pork involved in the welfare system supports a large well
paid group of whiners, that complain of being underpaid, and over
worked. Notice that many can't find a better job, so they whine, *****
off and collect a generous pension.
And yes some welfare workers are good people, amongst the
goldbricks.

You're American aren't you? All Americans believe evil people get rich
and cackle behind the wrong side of every political issue, that it is
physically impossible to have a political problem of any kind without
there being a rich white American male getting rich behind it all.

Especially white educated Texans. You're not by any chance a vegetarian
too are you? Just a shot in the dark.

I am a 8th generation East Texan, my first Anglo ancestors Irish and
German came to Mexico for free land. I am also part Mexican, and part
French from my Cajun. Love my meat, but limit it because of medical
advice. Had a heart attack.

Welfare pork? That's a new one for my collection of political neuroses.

Welfare is the largest pork barrel in the U.S. and all government
programs are for the benefit of the supplier. Welfare is a lousy way
to live, but difficult to rise above.

That is madness.

I agree we should allow them and their brats to starve, and the
predators the feed on them go bankrupt.
Let the doctors and nurses in the tax supported clinics seek work in a
for profit medical facility. Let the little brats suffer from
contigatious diseases. And spread them to our children.
See I can sound like a compassionate conservative also.

You really should get out more and meet people who don't live in the
trenches your guns are aimed at.


Hello?


I'm over here.


I'm not American. I'm English. I'm not a compassionate conservative I am
a radical utilitarian liberal free thinker of a kind that is very
difficult to pin down. Here's a little tip for you, when you are reading
out somebody else's words in your head - please bear in mind that you
may have them completely wrong.

When they are all over the map, it's rather difficult to tell where
a irrational ranter is coming from.
And it's rather difficult to pin down a irrational person that
doesn't know where he/she stands.
Although we both use a English dialect, we give the same word
different values.

My own opinion is it's none of my business what she chooses, I
support her right to choose.

And you will be taxed to pay for her choices. You don't get to choose,
she does. She doesn't get to pay, you do. Something a little wrong there
somewhere.

Yeah, but I don't complain about what little the poor get. Don't
care for what the predators steal from the poor.
The real villains here are the self righteous bigots, that have
managed to limit education in sex, that is the root cause of poverty.
Ignorance tends to promote mistakes.

Religious indoctrination is child abuse and so is the withholding of sex
education.

I complain about what the poor get when they are showing every sign of
bringing up another generation of unemployable welfare-dependent
potential criminals with no respect for education and common decency.

So do I but as long as the poor get a poor education, from poorly
educated teachers. Who complain loudly about how hard they work and
how poorly they are paid. It's not hard to lack respect for some thing
you have never received. Like education and common decency.
Some thing the hardcore poor never get.

Some of these sinks of welfare and criminal justice expenditure generate
a negative cost to the wider community that exceeds the good done by the
law-abiding tax-paying residents of six or seven square miles of
suburbia. And some of them have a history of doing so going back as far
as public records extend, generation after generation of corrosive
failure with not the slightest sign of the cycle ever being broken.
Keeping on doing what has failed for decades, or even centuries, is madness.

I agree but the victim still gets the blame.

It seems the father has no rights except the right to be held
financially liable if the mother decides to finger him as the father.

He should have taken precautions to prevent a unwanted pregnancy.
My father told me and I told my son, don't have sex with a woman that
you don't want to be the mother of your child. And still use a condom
unless you want to be a father.
Most men already know about safe sex, they just don't want the
trouble. Tough *****, he should have been sensible. IOW I have no
sympathy for a man that is stupid.

Condoms are not 100% effective. The first one I used split. All the
others have been OK but I know that they can fail and they are most
likely to fail in the worst circumstances of furtive inexperienced
fumbling.

That's why I support abortion on demand, a fail safe back up.
Furtive inexperienced fumbling is caused by ignorance. Sex education
is the remedy for sex ignorance.

I agree. "The morning after pill" should be available widely for any
woman or girl to buy and abortion services are a vital part of the
defence mechanisms of a healthy state. Nothing blights the life of a
young woman or man and their community more than an unwanted child, with
the possible exception of a criminal conviction for goat fucking as part
of a Satanic ritual.

I believe that the morning after pill, should be distributed with out
charge. That a young woman should get a 500.00 bonus for her birth day
if she isn't pregnant. That a bonus should be paid to every student
that passes finals. Even a smaller bonus for those that continue to
attend but fail the finals.

Unless you never ejaculate in the presence of a woman you cannot be
immune to the risk of an unwanted pregnancy, just ask Boris Becker.

Never heard of Boris Becker. However the penis should never be close
to the vagina, with out protection. Unless you intend to start a
pregnancy.

Never heard of Boris Becker? Yes, my diagnosis is correct: an American
from Dumbfuckistan.
http://www.mwillett.org/Politics/CSA-and-Jesusland.htm

(Google's number one hit for "dumbfuckistan")

Google is your friend, it will also help you find out about Boris Becker:

O.K. I visited your site, you are partly right, but mostly wrong.
Boris Becker apparently ejaculated in her vagina, a very good way for
a woman to get pregnant.

His claim that it was only a *****, sound like Bill Clinton.
And I admit Tennis leaves me cold, never bother watching a game.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/health/story/0,3605,426590,00.html

Interesting story. 5 calories per teaspoonful? You live and learn.

Women will lie about contraception and will fall pregnant. The scariest
thing I ever saw in my whole life was the predatory instincts of a young
unmarried woman who was determined to get pregnant. She threw herself at
every man she came across, including her boss and me. At least three men
probably believe that child is theirs.

Yes, there are predatory women, and men minorities in both sexes.
There are also sexually ignorant in both sexes. And even a few women
that want a child but not a husband.

Why would you need a husband when you have millions of captive taxpayers
and a welfare system?

Many well to do women are single mother by choice and are not
welfare queens. Some are lesbians, some just haven't found a man the
can live with. B.T.W. there are also single fathers raising their
kids. Some with assistance from the state.

But then again if women never behaved like that I wouldn't be here.
Apparently my paternal grandmother knew how to play her hand to secure
that trip up the aisle if my mother is to be believed.

Not at all unusual, most first born's are "premature".
My parents were married 14 months when I was born. My wife and I were
married 3 years before my first was born.

If she wants to kill his baby for any reason or none, she can, and if she
wants to taunt him with this fact she can. If she decides to keep it he
is stuck with the consequences of her decision.

Abortion doesn't kill a baby. killing a baby is murder.

Weasel words. Was your unborn son ever "just a blob of tissue" to you?

The first pregnancy was, my wife miscarried at 3 months. But you
appear to be a pro-lifer. Who doesn't understand the difference
between a wanted or unwanted pregnancy. We have suffered, 4
miscarriages, 2 still born's, 1 abortion because of medical advice of
danger to my wife and a defective fetus.
Blessed with a son and daughter, 5 grand children. And a great grand
child on the way.

Feminism criticises men for not being like women and then demands that
they refrain from any emotional attachments with their own children if
that is inconvenient to their partners who must be fully empowered to
make all the decisions. ***** that.

Typical woman hating pro-life statement. From a man that claims to
hate lies, and spouts pro-life propaganda. Yet claims to support a
woman's right to control her own body.
You need to examine your self, either you are a liar, or very
ignorant.

Not so. I am not a liar, or "a pro-lifer" or a compassionate
conservative. Or American. Or ignorant.

Have you ever considered getting more education? Your comprehension
skills seem a little rusty.

I believe the problem is your tendency to rant in a irrational
manner. And you show considerable ignorance in the reality of what you
are ranting about. Typical of a narrow minded self righteous bigot.

It seems the state has to sit around and wait to see if the mother calls
upon it to step into the father's shoes and pay and pay and have no say.

The stupid ***** should have avoided knocking up a woman, that
wasn't ready to have his child.

No wonder so many girls with no talents or prospects seem in such a rush
to get pregnant, suddenly it's all about them as it has never been
before and never will be again. The world revolves around their womb.

Most have these dreams of being married, and having a husband to
support them. Then when the man stops lying and tells her he only
wanted sex, she's left high and dry. No way will the man suffer as
much as she will. I have heard men bragging about shagging some dumb
***** girl.
The man is seldom if ever a innocent victim, the girl is often duped
by a smooth talker.

Is swallowing that feminist men-are-all-bastards shite the only way you
can get laid? You really do seem to be looking at the world through pink
spectacles, swallowing the line that women (and little girls are women
too) should make every decision and be given every break, always, and
men are selfish shiftless emotionally crippled bastards and probably
rapists too (present company excepted, perhaps).

Women only have sex with men who promise to marry them. Yeah, right.

I don't know about that howling and sweat-lodge stuff but perhaps you
had better experiment with some form of getting in touch with your
masculine side.

Typical of the self righteous bigot when cornered start personal
insult questioning a persons manhood.

Maybe you could buy some tools, or drink some beer, *****
standing up again or perhaps make a point of farting loudly - just
something to show you still have functioning testicles. :)

This is what makes a man in your view?

You're really failing to get this, aren't you? I am not who you want to
believe I am. You seem to be suffering from a very narrow field of view.

You are the one with a extremely limited and mostly wrong view of
Americans, my view of you is based on your writing. But now that I
learn that your are English, I understand you better. I spent 2 weeks
in Liverpool, English look, smell and act like sheep. And have the
world worst food. The ships mess deck was the best place to eat.
And that horrible crap you call tea. Ugh. And your coffee is even
worse.

I have expressed certain ideas which you associate with a group of
people you are well practised in attacking so you have made the error of
thinking that this is what I am. You seem to be demonstrating a classic
example of the evils of prejudice. You decided I was one of the enemy
and you're damned if you are going to let any evidence get in the way of
your pre-judgement. I am one of them and I should act like one of them
and stand up and fight and not be convinced like one of them and stop
confusing you by being me and agreeing with you. How dare I?

You made a wrong call. I am not going to accommodate your clownish
incompetence any longer. Stop telling me what I am and read and digest
what I actually write, OK? If you don't understand anything just ask.
There's no need to put your hand up.

Perhaps if you look at my website you would get a few clues as to where
I am coming from.
--

I did look, you look just like a Baptist Preacher. And your
irrational rant on your web page is about a inaccurate as every thing
else you have written.
You are a Jerk, that thinks being a jerk is good.

"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4pnd80Fjo5tnU1@individual.net...

Robert wrote:

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:09:48 +0100, Martin Willett
<mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote:

"We don't want this child or this pregnancy" is a perfectly acceptable
reason for an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy and no other
justification is required to be fabricated.
--

Martin Willett

Then why roil the water with your apparent opposition to abortion on
demand. During the first 120 days of the pregnancy. After that some
restriction might be justified. Like sex selection.

You seem to have assumed that because I challenged the idea that young
girls die in childbirth that I must be against abortion. No, I am against
lies and hypocrisy. Pretending that you are aborting a foetus to save the
mother's life without producing the slightest trace of evidence that her
life is in real danger is dishonest. Abortion in a rape case is enough of
a tragedy without compounding it further by lying to justify the killing.

So, you think a 12-year-old should be forced to have her rapist's baby?

"Martin Willett" <mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4pnd80Fjo5tnU1@individual.net...

Robert wrote:

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:09:48 +0100, Martin Willett
<mwillett.org@invalid.invalid> wrote:

"We don't want this child or this pregnancy" is a perfectly acceptable
reason for an abortion in the early stages of pregnancy and no other
justification is required to be fabricated.
--

Martin Willett

Then why roil the water with your apparent opposition to abortion on
demand. During the first 120 days of the pregnancy. After that some
restriction might be justified. Like sex selection.

You seem to have assumed that because I challenged the idea that young
girls die in childbirth that I must be against abortion. No, I am against
lies and hypocrisy. Pretending that you are aborting a foetus to save the
mother's life without producing the slightest trace of evidence that her
life is in real danger is dishonest. Abortion in a rape case is enough of
a tra