| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Bill M" |
| Date: |
22 Oct 2007 06:13:48 AM |
| Object: |
A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
Some questions for theists.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God's creations???
.
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| User: "Gary Kendrick" |
|
| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
02 Nov 2007 08:40:03 AM |
|
|
On 10/22/07 7:13 AM, in article a74Ti.1964$m11.989@bignews9.bellsouth.net,
"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Some questions for theists.
As with all answers or opinions on these boards mine is but my own opinion
gathered from experience and study.
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested, provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers also. That
said God does speak to His believers in many ways but not in some booming
voice although to some they may hear such but God is Spirit and therefore
speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy Spirit which
indwells (lives inside) the believer. This Holy Spirit is given to the
Believer as proof of their salvation and is known to the believer and God
communicates through the Holy Spirit according to His own will. God's
communication however isn't necessarily in the form that one can demonstrate
or record but is profound and undisputable for the person or recipitant.
2.. If there is a real God, why does he permit the majority of his
creations to be deceived by hundreds of false Gods?
Our understanding, as humans, is so limited and narrow that we too often try
and humanize God and try and restrain God into a definable. Man (human)
being in the image of God in that we have the ability to make decisions and
rationalize things however God is so infinite and complex that it is
impossible for us to grasp and comprehend exactly what God would be or is
with our limited potential and abilities. I cannot provide you an answer to
your question other than to say that many of the answers that man seeks
remains matters of Faith and others are beyond our ability to comprehend or
understand. Your question mentions the "majority" of God's creations. That
term is in itself very subjective in that we make judgments about what we
can see and what little we know. We, being human, also see only in the
physical dimension and what we may consider the majority of God's creations
most likely is just a minute and miniscule thing. Just as Earth is a very
small finite place in an infinite universe so is our comprehension of what
exist as God's creation or as a second or minute is to eternity.
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
The world as well as the physical creations and problems we see and
experience are in the physical world. God is Spirit and exist in a much
larger and greater Spiritual world with dimensions of which we cannot
comprehend. Sin and ultimate failings of man brought upon creation much of
the flaws and troubles that exist today. Wars and disagreements and
fighting come from the sinfulness of the human creation itself and our own
shortcomings. The ability to choose to disobey is and was a part of man and
a part of being human and the results of that disobedience is the
fulfillment of judgment upon sin and man. Creation, over time, has become
corrupted by man or human kind itself and was not created defective but
creation is contingent on itself and was in harmony.
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
Satan, "the Devil" is a creation just as we are but is a fallen Angel and
with very great powers. Satan's power is second only to God in that he is
an extremely powerful being yet there is no evidence or even statement that
he created anything other than suspicion and temptation within humans. It
is the decisions or sin itself that caused God's Judgment to fall upon the
world and mankind. Man, even with God's Word, The Bible, doesn't know the
battles and conflict that existed sometime in time's history between Satan
and God but we are only told that the conflict between God and Satan came
from Satin's attempt to be God and usurp God's power and authority and in
his rebellion he and many other angels fell from God's grace and into
Judgment themselves which will ultimately happen one day. It's difficult to
comprehend why Judgment wasn't immediate and already over yet we are
thinking in the human physical terms of time and when measured by the
standard of eternity time becomes irrelevant in that there is no difference
between one year, one second, and one million years. When measured by
eternity time has no relevance and therefore fifty million years could
technically be considered as immediate judgment. Satan's interaction with
mankind or human kind, God's creation, is such that it is yet another way he
seeks to battle and oppose God. Man has the ability to make decisions and
has limited understanding however and therefore has the ability to accept
upon faith that which at times doesn't make rational sense as measured
according to human wisdom and intelligence.
5.. Who, why and what created Devils that enjoy misleading and punishing
God's creations???
Satan and demons (Satan's angels and spiritual beings) were created long
before man and possibly still are created but exist in a spiritual world
which is beyond our understanding or vision yet exist around us and
throughout all creation. Any of God's creations therefore are subject to
their own wrath and attempts to circumvent God's Will. The ultimate reason
for Satan's and his Demon's dealings with mankind and creation is the
continuance of the battle waging with God in their active rebellion against
God.
God has provided the Bible, scriptures accumulated over time to serve as His
Communication to humankind and man in a way to provide answers that will
enable man to fulfill the requirements God has to atone for the sins of
man's past present and future. Belief in God is a matter of Faith and is a
decision that each man/woman has to make based upon their own experience and
calling. I believe that God reveals Himself to each person that seeks God
and that revelation I believe is through God's Holy Spirit. Once man
decides to respond to that calling or prompting then God ENABLES man to
receive His Holy Spirit and that Holy Spirit actually dwells, lives, and
exist within the human body with the inner created spirit of man to serve as
demonstrable proof that God not only exist but that mans salvation is true
and accepted by God and it is that same Holy Spirit that God uses to
communicate with the believer as well as providing other "Fruits of the
Spirits presence". I do not believe it is or ever will be possible to
totally understand or comprehend God nor should we expect it to be thus.
Mans relationship to God is a Spiritual one not a physical one and although
God's creation consist of the physical the overwhelming creation and world
of God's is Spiritual and invisible to our human eyes. God however did
experience that physical existence through Jesus Christ which was God as Man
who died on the cross shedding His blood for that substitution of the blood
sacrifice for mans sins and imperfection. Jesus Christ blood was the only
perfect, sinless blood and therefore is how His shed blood is sufficient to
meet the requirements of God's Judgment against Sin. The blood of animals
was required as sacrifice for man's sins annually yet it was never perfect
and continued to need to be shed each year for mans sins. Christ blood was
from the perfect Lamb of God and therefore was sufficient to cover man's
sins past, present, and future without the need to die over and over. Mans
acceptance of that sacrifice though like much of what man understands and
comprehends about God is a matter of Faith and reliance upon that which man
cannot prove or measure. It cannot be demonstrated or measured or laid out
for another to believe yet for the individual who is enabled, if you will,
or saved there is no additional proof needed other than the indwelling of
God's Holy Spirit which is given to the believer as proof and verification
of their conversion and salvation.
.
|
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|
| User: "Kelsey Bjarnason" |
|
| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
07 Nov 2007 07:00:13 AM |
|
|
[snips]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested, provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers also. That
said God does speak to His believers
"His believers". Meaning those who don't believe for essentially honest
reasons - lack of evidence to support the claims, for example - are thus
left out in the cold, condemned for behaving exactly as they were
(according to many a believer) designed to behave. Or for that matter,
those who do believe, but in the "wrong" god.
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
3.. If there is a loving God creator, why did he create such a brutal
and
defective world with birth defects, wars and diseases?
The world as well as the physical creations and problems we see and
experience are in the physical world.
Precisely. The world we live in, full of suffering and torment. Illness
and injury, cancer and flesh-eating bacteria, all sorts of fun and
wonderful things, all giving testimony to just how much God loves us. Er,
no, that doesn't work. :)
God is Spirit and exist in a much
larger and greater Spiritual world with dimensions of which we cannot
comprehend.
Well that's all nice and whatnot, but one might suppose that a dude
capable of creating entire universes could, pretty trivially, eliminate
cancer and birth defects and the like. Apparently he just doesn't care
about people suffering. Not surprising, really.
Sin and ultimate failings of man brought upon creation much
of the flaws and troubles that exist today.
Ah, yes, that good old cop-out. If something good happens, it's God, if
something bad happens, it's man. Hint for you: if God has the power to
make things better and doesn't, he's just as culpable as anyone else. If
he doesn't have the power, he's not God.
So, is he non-existent, existent but irrelevant, or simply a sick,
twisted, sadistic *****?
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the
real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
Satan, "the Devil" is a creation just as we are but is a fallen Angel
and with very great powers.
Powers which God gave him. Created by God. For God's purpose. Also, we
might point out that the font of all evil has a body count in the Bible of
about 10, whereas the font of all good has a body count in the millions.
Kinda says it all, doesn't it?
Satan's power is second only to God in that
he is an extremely powerful being yet there is no evidence or even
statement that he created anything other than suspicion and temptation
within humans.
Actually, there's no evidence he even exists, but let's ignore that for
now. :)
It is the decisions or sin itself that caused God's
Judgment to fall upon the world and mankind.
Actually, it was a rigged game - a game rigged by God. A game in which he
put people who had no knowledge of the consequences of disobedience in
eyeball range of a forbidden item then expected them not to go touch.
Young children lack any real concept of consequences, too, and any parent
of a young child can tell you the essentially guaranteed results of
putting such a child, unattended, beside a shiny toy or a cookie jar.
Oh, and let's not forget that in the ultimate act of love, God condemned
billions upon billions of men and women for actions taken before they even
existed, actions they had no part in. Sort of like hanging you because
your fifth-generation-back ancestor was a horse thief.
sins of man's past present and future. Belief in God is a matter of
Faith and is a decision that each man/woman has to make based upon their
own experience and calling.
So someone such as myself, who sees not a single thing even hinting at the
possibility such a being exists, is this condemned to everlasting torment,
for the simple failing of being exactly as God made me, is that what
you're saying?
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
07 Nov 2007 06:06:37 PM |
|
|
"Kelsey Bjarnason" <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net...
[snips]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested, provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers also.
That
said God does speak to His believers
"His believers". Meaning those who don't believe for essentially honest
reasons - lack of evidence to support the claims, for example - are thus
left out in the cold, condemned for behaving exactly as they were
(according to many a believer) designed to behave. Or for that matter,
those who do believe, but in the "wrong" god.
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus in
John 3:3) Only atheists demand they "extract love and examine it in detail".
ROFL
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
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| User: "torcant" |
|
| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
08 Nov 2007 02:00:10 PM |
|
|
On Nov 8, 2:06 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Kelsey Bjarnason" <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net...
[snips]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested, provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers also.
That
said God does speak to His believers
"His believers". Meaning those who don't believe for essentially honest
reasons - lack of evidence to support the claims, for example - are thus
left out in the cold, condemned for behaving exactly as they were
(according to many a believer) designed to behave. Or for that matter,
those who do believe, but in the "wrong" god.
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus in
John 3:3) Only atheists demand they "extract love and examine it in detail".
ROFL
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
If you can't speak for others why do you speak here at all? Why should
anyone take your speaking for yourself seriously? Why do you quote the
bible? How do you expect anyone that does not accept its authority to
respect the references?
tcnt
.
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| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
08 Nov 2007 07:31:20 PM |
|
|
"torcant" <torcant@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194552010.741215.320060@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 8, 2:06 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Kelsey Bjarnason" <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net...
[snips]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or
hear
from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested,
provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers also.
That
said God does speak to His believers
"His believers". Meaning those who don't believe for essentially
honest
reasons - lack of evidence to support the claims, for example - are
thus
left out in the cold, condemned for behaving exactly as they were
(according to many a believer) designed to behave. Or for that matter,
those who do believe, but in the "wrong" god.
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus in
John 3:3) Only atheists demand they "extract love and examine it in
detail".
ROFL
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
If you can't speak for others why do you speak here at all? Why should
anyone take your speaking for yourself seriously? Why do you quote the
bible? How do you expect anyone that does not accept its authority to
respect the references?
You're new here?
Frank (or [thick as a] Plank, as I prefer to call him) has been coming into
a.a. for 11 years.
He has admitted, that in all that time, he hasn't made even one convert.
He has admitted that his actions in coming to a.a. are rude, pig-ignorant
and obnoxious.
Yet he seems to think that his religion demands this of him.
He doesn't understand the either the concept of logic or the concept of
honesty.
He just constantly spouts his drivel, ad nauseum, with no attempt to back it
up with extra-biblical references.
IOW he's a troll.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
|
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| User: "torcant" |
|
| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
09 Nov 2007 09:54:25 AM |
|
|
On Nov 9, 3:31 am, "Smiler" <Smi...@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"torcant" <torc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194552010.741215.320060@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 8, 2:06 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Kelsey Bjarnason" <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net...
[snips]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or
hear
from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested,
provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers also.
That
said God does speak to His believers
"His believers". Meaning those who don't believe for essentially
honest
reasons - lack of evidence to support the claims, for example - are
thus
left out in the cold, condemned for behaving exactly as they were
(according to many a believer) designed to behave. Or for that matter,
those who do believe, but in the "wrong" god.
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus in
John 3:3) Only atheists demand they "extract love and examine it in
detail".
ROFL
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
If you can't speak for others why do you speak here at all? Why should
anyone take your speaking for yourself seriously? Why do you quote the
bible? How do you expect anyone that does not accept its authority to
respect the references?
You're new here?
Frank (or [thick as a] Plank, as I prefer to call him) has been coming into
a.a. for 11 years.
He has admitted, that in all that time, he hasn't made even one convert.
He has admitted that his actions in coming to a.a. are rude, pig-ignorant
and obnoxious.
Yet he seems to think that his religion demands this of him.
He doesn't understand the either the concept of logic or the concept of
honesty.
He just constantly spouts his drivel, ad nauseum, with no attempt to back it
up with extra-biblical references.
IOW he's a troll.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
Yes I'm new. Thanks for the information.
Based on my experience, religious people can never make converts
unless that person is already looking for some belief to be converted
to.
trcnt
.
|
|
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| User: "Smiler" |
|
| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
09 Nov 2007 06:36:03 PM |
|
|
"torcant" <torcant@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194623665.044148.150210@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 9, 3:31 am, "Smiler" <Smi...@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"torcant" <torc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194552010.741215.320060@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 8, 2:06 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Kelsey Bjarnason" <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net...
[snips]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or
hear
from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested,
provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers
also.
That
said God does speak to His believers
"His believers". Meaning those who don't believe for essentially
honest
reasons - lack of evidence to support the claims, for example - are
thus
left out in the cold, condemned for behaving exactly as they were
(according to many a believer) designed to behave. Or for that
matter,
those who do believe, but in the "wrong" god.
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested
in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary.
We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus
in
John 3:3) Only atheists demand they "extract love and examine it in
detail".
ROFL
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
If you can't speak for others why do you speak here at all? Why should
anyone take your speaking for yourself seriously? Why do you quote the
bible? How do you expect anyone that does not accept its authority to
respect the references?
You're new here?
Frank (or [thick as a] Plank, as I prefer to call him) has been coming
into
a.a. for 11 years.
He has admitted, that in all that time, he hasn't made even one convert.
He has admitted that his actions in coming to a.a. are rude, pig-ignorant
and obnoxious.
Yet he seems to think that his religion demands this of him.
He doesn't understand the either the concept of logic or the concept of
honesty.
He just constantly spouts his drivel, ad nauseum, with no attempt to back
it
up with extra-biblical references.
IOW he's a troll.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
Yes I'm new. Thanks for the information.
Based on my experience, religious people can never make converts
unless that person is already looking for some belief to be converted
to.
Welcome.
Your experience agrees with mine. You won't find (m?)any, here in a.a., who
are looking for a belief.
I've been here about 2 years and I've not seen or heard of anyone being
converted to religion by any of them.
They mainly act as the best advertisement for atheism that there could ever
be..."See what religion does to you, son."
There are several posters you may want to avoid until you've been here a
while and seen several of their posts.
Andrew B. Chung, John D. Wensky, Duke (Earl Webber) and Plank, to name a few
of the worst/nuttiest.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
.
|
|
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|
| User: "Bill M" |
|
| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
09 Nov 2007 06:41:52 AM |
|
|
"torcant" <torcant@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194623665.044148.150210@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 9, 3:31 am, "Smiler" <Smi...@Joe.King.com> wrote:
"torcant" <torc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194552010.741215.320060@v23g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 8, 2:06 am, "Pastor Frank" <P...@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Kelsey Bjarnason" <kbjarna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net...
[snips]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or
hear
from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested,
provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers
also.
That
said God does speak to His believers
I'm 82 years olf and still waiting! P.S. as a child I was a Christian
beleiver and even an alter boy.
"His believers". Meaning those who don't believe for essentially
honest
reasons - lack of evidence to support the claims, for example - are
thus
left out in the cold, condemned for behaving exactly as they were
(according to many a believer) designed to behave. Or for that
matter,
those who do believe, but in the "wrong" god.
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Inside his imagination!
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested
in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary.
We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus
in
John 3:3) Only atheists demand they "extract love and examine it in
detail".
ROFL
Why does ANY real god refuse to revel himself to ALL of his creations???
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
If you can't speak for others why do you speak here at all? Why should
anyone take your speaking for yourself seriously? Why do you quote the
bible? How do you expect anyone that does not accept its authority to
respect the references?
You're new here?
Frank (or [thick as a] Plank, as I prefer to call him) has been coming
into
a.a. for 11 years.
He has admitted, that in all that time, he hasn't made even one convert.
He has admitted that his actions in coming to a.a. are rude, pig-ignorant
and obnoxious.
Yet he seems to think that his religion demands this of him.
He doesn't understand the either the concept of logic or the concept of
honesty.
He just constantly spouts his drivel, ad nauseum, with no attempt to back
it
up with extra-biblical references.
IOW he's a troll.
Smiler,
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
Yes I'm new. Thanks for the information.
Based on my experience, religious people can never make converts
unless that person is already looking for some belief to be converted
to.
trcnt
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
08 Nov 2007 04:48:04 AM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Kelsey Bjarnason" <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net...
[snips]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
1.. Why do billions of honest non-delusional people never see or hear
from
their God?
I cannot speak for others but for myself. I can, if requested, provide
scripture reference to cite Biblical explanation of my answers also.
That
said God does speak to His believers
"His believers". Meaning those who don't believe for essentially honest
reasons - lack of evidence to support the claims, for example - are thus
left out in the cold, condemned for behaving exactly as they were
(according to many a believer) designed to behave. Or for that matter,
those who do believe, but in the "wrong" god.
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in
Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We
therefore know our God and have seen Him. (Jesus in John 14:6-10)
Atheists don't know our God and therefore cannot see Him, (Jesus in
John 3:3) Only atheists demand they "extract love and examine it in detail".
ROFL
I wouldn't laugh if I were you Frank,
your sad repetition of this silly ditty is boring
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Gary" |
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| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
09 Nov 2007 09:36:45 PM |
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On 11/7/07 8:00 AM, in article tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net, "Kelsey
Bjarnason" <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:
[selected parts sniped]
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
The spirit or soul as with the spiritual realm cannot be confined or
measured but can only be validated to those whom have experienced such. For
those that have there needs not be any physical evidence or explanations
which goes back to the matter of what the essence of faith is in the first
place.
God is Spirit and exist in a much
larger and greater Spiritual world with dimensions of which we cannot
comprehend.
Well that's all nice and whatnot, but one might suppose that a dude
capable of creating entire universes could, pretty trivially, eliminate
cancer and birth defects and the like. Apparently he just doesn't care
about people suffering. Not surprising, really.
Easy to make human judgments using human wisdom yet we have not a fraction
of knowledge about what God is, does, or exist of nor do we know for what
reasons things are allowed to exist in our physical realm. Could be just
those things you mention are brought on by man's own actions in the past and
present and yet we are quick to attempt to attribute them to God. I'm not
saying that a person deserves what effects them or what happens to them but
those things may be brought on not by their own actions but by the actions
or things from generations past and follows from generation to generation.
I cannot speak for why God allows things to happen but I am firmly convinced
that if it was His Will for Cancer to cease then it would immediately yet
what reason do we humans give to warrant such miracles? Disbelief?
Condemnation of the Creator? Sinning without regrets? Man is progressively
finding ways to try and eliminate God from any part of life and society yet
we get angry at God when He doesn't eliminate every malady immediately.
4.. If a Devil has created all the defects and punishments of the
real
world, why does a loving God permit this mistreatment of his creations?
Satan, "the Devil" is a creation just as we are but is a fallen Angel
and with very great powers.
Powers which God gave him. Created by God. For God's purpose. Also, we
might point out that the font of all evil has a body count in the Bible of
about 10, whereas the font of all good has a body count in the millions.
Kinda says it all, doesn't it?
If a person wants to blame and demonize God that's fully within their
ability to do so. I prefer to yield to God's much greater knowledge and
power and through faith accept that which I cannot explain. It is a
personal choice to yield that control and challenges for things I cannot
explain.
Satan's power is second only to God in that
he is an extremely powerful being yet there is no evidence or even
statement that he created anything other than suspicion and temptation
within humans.
Actually, there's no evidence he even exists, but let's ignore that for
now. :)
I agree, no physical ore measurable evidence yet I again say we are talking
about a spiritual kingdom and world not a physical one with definable
borders or features.
sins of man's past present and future. Belief in God is a matter of
Faith and is a decision that each man/woman has to make based upon their
own experience and calling.
So someone such as myself, who sees not a single thing even hinting at the
possibility such a being exists, is this condemned to everlasting torment,
for the simple failing of being exactly as God made me, is that what
you're saying?
I can only state that which I believe that the Scriptures tell and foretell
about events in the life of man/woman. I make no judgments about you or any
other person but myself whom I have ultimate responsibility to Judge my own
actions and certainly not make judgments about you or another person.
It is my opinion that I was born into sin and at some point in my life
became aware of my deficient condition. Furthermore I recognized a longing
within for what my life meant and just why I was here or if there was
anything special about me. I believe that there is more than just flesh and
blood to myself but that I am a living existing spirit within a human body.
I chose to accept that Jesus Christ was the way God provided for me, a
gentile (non Jew) to obtain ultimate and lasting forgiveness for my sins,
past, present, and future and I acknowledged my insufficient condition and
my sins and flawed sinful body and existence and relied upon the sacrifice
of Jesus Christ to prevent me from the Judgment upon my sins and to protect
me from God's ultimate judgment upon man and human kind. I further
acknowledge that God gave to me His Holy Spirit which I experienced upon my
conversion and I have no doubts about my condition or future status or for
that matter about God's existence. That, other than being willing to say
what I just said, is my responsibly as a Christian and not to stand in
judgment of another or condemn another person.
The Scriptures or the Bible contains much about man, God, prophecy,
judgment, and mans relation to God and to man and about God's way of
salvation. If a person has questions about their own salvation or condition
with relation to God then I am fully confident that God's Holy Spirit will
provide the conviction to that person and that God will deal with that
person in that no human needs to make judgments or condemnation about any
other person, that's one of the problems we have today, too many people
acting as God rather than being concerned about their own lives and
condition. If then that person is open and receptive to God's call and
Spirit then they will find what answers they seek.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
09 Nov 2007 10:33:59 PM |
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"Gary" <gbrk@charter.net> wrote in message
news:C35A917D.2094F%gbrk@charter.net...
On 11/7/07 8:00 AM, in article tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net,
"Kelsey
Bjarnason" <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
"Spirit" is akin to a quality of attitude, either holy and good, or
unholy and evil. You again look for a spirit that is a created temporal
entity like a ghost, perhaps.
Our Christian "God is love" and love is uncreated and eternal.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: A FIEW QUESTIONS FOR THEISTS |
10 Nov 2007 05:52:01 AM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Gary" <gbrk@charter.net> wrote in message
news:C35A917D.2094F%gbrk@charter.net...
On 11/7/07 8:00 AM, in article tfp805-6vq.ln1@spanky.localhost.net,
"Kelsey
Bjarnason" <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:40:03 -0400, Gary Kendrick wrote:
therefore speaks and communicates to His believers through His Holy
Spirit which indwells (lives inside) the believer.
Where? In your spleen? Liver? Could you show us a case where such
spirit has been extracted and examined in detail?
"Spirit" is akin to a quality of attitude, either holy and good, or
unholy and evil. You again look for a spirit that is a created temporal
entity like a ghost, perhaps.
Our Christian "God is love" and love is uncreated and eternal.
IOW like your god, purely imaginary
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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