| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
09 May 2005 11:42:12 PM |
| Object: |
"A higher father that I appeal to." |
May 9, 2005
Stranger Than Fiction
By BOB HERBERT
When Bob Woodward asked President Bush if he had consulted with his father
about the decision to go to war in Iraq, the president famously replied,
"There is a higher father that I appeal to."
It might have been better if Mr. Bush had stayed in closer touch with his
earthly father. From the very beginning the war in Iraq has been an
exercise in extreme madness, an absurd venture that would have been rich in
comic possibilities except for the fact that many thousands of men, women
and children have died, and tens of thousands have been crippled, burned or
otherwise maimed.
The world now knows that the weapons of mass destruction were a convenient
fiction. Less well known is that bumbling administration officials eagerly
embraced the ravings of a foreign intelligence source known, believe it or
not, as "Curveball." He helped promote the fantasy that Iraq had mobile
laboratories for the manufacture of biological weapons.
The C.I.A. was warned that Curveball was as crazy as a Peter Sellers
character, but the administration wanted this war in the way that a small
child wants candy. Curveball's information was swallowed whole.
Amateurs and incompetents have run the war from the start, and fantasy has
trumped reality at every turn. If a movie were to be made of the war, the
appropriate director would be Mel Brooks. Even as the administration was
listening to the likes of Curveball, it was showing the door to the Army's
chief of staff, Gen. Eric K. Shinseki, who made the mistake of speaking the
plain truth to officials fluent only in self-serving gibberish.
General Shinseki said it would take hundreds of thousands of troops to
pacify Iraq. That was the end of his career.
Bush & Co. sent far fewer troops into the war, and many of them were never
properly trained or equipped. The results have been nightmarish. Roadside
bombs have caused 70 percent of American casualties in Iraq. The military
was not prepared for this tactic and has had a miserable record providing
protective armor for Humvees and other vehicles carrying soldiers and
marines.
So G.I.'s from the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the
world have been dying because their nation wouldn't give them up-to-date
combat vehicles.
As for training and preparedness, the scandal at Abu Ghraib is instructive.
The problems there went far beyond the photos of Lynndie England and others
humiliating the Iraqis under their control. We learned last week that Janis
Karpinski, the brigadier general whose reserve military police unit was in
charge of the prison, had been arrested for shoplifting at a military base
in Florida in 2002. The same army that's scouring Iraq for insurgents and
terrorists was apparently unaware of the arrest record of the woman
assigned to such a sensitive position at Abu Ghraib.
Abu Ghraib was not an aberration. It was a symptom. This is a war in which
the people in charge have had no idea what they were doing. One of the
recommendations of Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated the scandal
at Abu Ghraib, was that a team be sent to Iraq to teach some of the
soldiers how to run prisons. How's that for an innovative step?
The United States is now stuck with a war it should never have started. The
violence continues to rage out of control. The latest fantasy out of
Washington is that somehow, miraculously, Iraqi troops will be able to take
over and win the war that we couldn't.
The American public is becoming fed up and with good reason. Support for
the war is declining and the reputation of the military is in jeopardy. The
Army has been unable to meet its recruitment goals and the search for new
soldiers is becoming desperate.
Last week, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Richard Myers, told
Congress that the war in Iraq was taking a toll on the military and would
make combat operations elsewhere in the world more difficult. That was
hardly a comforting thought as the administration was ramping up its
rhetoric about North Korea.
If President Bush had consulted with his father before launching this
clownish, disastrous war, he might have gotten some advice that would have
pointed him in a different direction and spared his country - and the
families of the many thousands dead - a lot of grief.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
http://PerkinsTragedy.org http://www.rightard.org/
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7287564?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single7&rnd=1115325831843&has-player=unknown
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| User: "nJb" |
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| Title: Re: "A higher father that I appeal to." |
10 May 2005 01:12:45 AM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
The United States is now stuck with a war it should never have started. The
violence continues to rage out of control. The latest fantasy out of
Washington is that somehow, miraculously, Iraqi troops will be able to take
over and win the war that we couldn't.
The American public is becoming fed up and with good reason. Support for
the war is declining and the reputation of the military is in jeopardy. The
Army has been unable to meet its recruitment goals and the search for new
soldiers is becoming desperate.
Out of 53,000,000 voters who put their stamp of approval on these
clowns, they can't even get a few thousand a month to step up to the
plate. Chickenhawks voting for chickenhawks.
--
Jack
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| User: "john howell" |
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| Title: Re: "A higher father that I appeal to." |
10 May 2005 04:01:02 AM |
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I will never believe 53,000,000 people voted for this foul vile scumbag. No
more then I believe he won the 2000 election or that the 2002 election was
on the up and up. St John the Atheist
"nJb" <none@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:d5pj6g$5cf$1@news.xmission.com...
Fredric L. Rice wrote:
The United States is now stuck with a war it should never have started.
The
violence continues to rage out of control. The latest fantasy out of
Washington is that somehow, miraculously, Iraqi troops will be able to
take
over and win the war that we couldn't.
The American public is becoming fed up and with good reason. Support for
the war is declining and the reputation of the military is in jeopardy.
The
Army has been unable to meet its recruitment goals and the search for new
soldiers is becoming desperate.
Out of 53,000,000 voters who put their stamp of approval on these clowns,
they can't even get a few thousand a month to step up to the plate.
Chickenhawks voting for chickenhawks.
--
Jack
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: "A higher father that I appeal to." |
13 May 2005 07:17:15 PM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 09:01:02 GMT, "john howell" <jh.pita@verizon.net>
wrote:
I will never believe 53,000,000 people voted for this foul vile scumbag. No
more then I believe he won the 2000 election or that the 2002 election was
on the up and up. St John the Atheist
They didn't. The fixes were in.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: "A higher father that I appeal to." |
10 May 2005 05:50:58 AM |
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TV's john howell wrote:
I will never believe 53,000,000 people voted for this foul vile scumbag.
No
more then I believe he won the 2000 election or that the 2002 election was
on the up and up. St John the Atheist
Can you say "Diebold"?
--
Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning.
A non-functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing.
- Maynard James Keenan
The belief in the Christian god... is an appalling nightmare. I reject
the notion that the whole universe was created by this kind of evil
creature who would create such a thing. - Anthony Flew, March 22, 2005
aa #2133
ap #19
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: "A higher father that I appeal to." |
13 May 2005 07:18:14 PM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 05:50:58 -0500, "towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>
wrote:
TV's john howell wrote:
I will never believe 53,000,000 people voted for this foul vile scumbag.
No
more then I believe he won the 2000 election or that the 2002 election was
on the up and up. St John the Atheist
Can you say "Diebold"?
Don't forget the disenfranchizing in Florida combined with making sure
the appeals process wouldn't finish until after the election closed.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "Azrael" |
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| Title: Re: "A higher father that I appeal to." |
10 May 2005 05:51:43 PM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:42:12 GMT, (Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:
<snipped>
General Shinseki said it would take hundreds of thousands of troops to
pacify Iraq. That was the end of his career.
Bush & Co. sent far fewer troops into the war, and many of them were never
properly trained or equipped.
American military doctrine and trianing is among the best in the
world, and I have heard no stories that they did'nt have the proper
equipment, body amour is not standard equipment, in the 6 years that I
was in the army and I was a combat soldier I raarely saw body amour
except for some flak vests that were issued to a small number a
soldiers.
The results have been nightmarish. Roadside
bombs have caused 70 percent of American casualties in Iraq.
Defending against home-made roadside bombs is not part of the american
military doctrine. takeing over and controlling land and fighting
against an organized military threat is the basis of the american
military doctrine. Very few battles have been fought within city
limets to create a doctrine for those tactics have exiested for
military planners.
The military was not prepared for this tactic and has had a miserable record providing
protective armor for Humvees and other vehicles carrying soldiers and
marines.
Humvees and duece and a-halves are not Armoured Personell carriers,
duec and a-halves have never been armored and humvees are the modern
jeep
So G.I.'s from the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the
world have been dying because their nation wouldn't give them up-to-date
combat vehicles.
Except for M1A2 Abrams tanks, Strykers, night vision equipment,
thermal visioning, remote sensor drones, remote bobm disposal, etc
As for training and preparedness, the scandal at Abu Ghraib is instructive.
The problems there went far beyond the photos of Lynndie England and others
humiliating the Iraqis under their control.
HGumiliating prisoners is not abuse of prisoners, I've seen and done
worse, The 'crime' is that these moroons took and sent the pictures to
thier friends.
We learned last week that Janis
Karpinski, the brigadier general whose reserve military police unit was in
charge of the prison, had been arrested for shoplifting at a military base
in Florida in 2002. The same army that's scouring Iraq for insurgents and
terrorists was apparently unaware of the arrest record of the woman
assigned to such a sensitive position at Abu Ghraib.
Abu Ghraib was not an aberration. It was a symptom. This is a war in which
the people in charge have had no idea what they were doing. One of the
recommendations of Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated the scandal
at Abu Ghraib, was that a team be sent to Iraq to teach some of the
soldiers how to run prisons. How's that for an innovative step?
Pretty innovative, can you run a prison? Many of these people are
reservists and have jobs in the civilian sector that do not involve
running prisons.
The United States is now stuck with a war it should never have started. The
violence continues to rage out of control. The latest fantasy out of
Washington is that somehow, miraculously, Iraqi troops will be able to take
over and win the war that we couldn't.
The war has been won, it's the peace that we're fighting for now, and
that will take time. Unlike in past experiences there is not a leader
that all iraqis will get behind and support, each of the three major
factions want something different. It's also the faction that lost the
most with Saddams removel that are cuasing the violence. Then again
the lawlessnes that exists in much of the middle east is soemthing
that most americans will never understand, it is only through force
that order is maintained in many of these contries
The American public is becoming fed up and with good reason. Support for
the war is declining and the reputation of the military is in jeopardy. The
Army has been unable to meet its recruitment goals and the search for new
soldiers is becoming desperate.
The reputaion of the administraiton that is in jeopardy not the
military's, without a plan to exit Iraq and a reluctance to send ones
child into harm's way is the main reason for recuitment being doewn.
Last week, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Richard Myers, told
Congress that the war in Iraq was taking a toll on the military and would
make combat operations elsewhere in the world more difficult. That was
hardly a comforting thought as the administration was ramping up its
rhetoric about North Korea.
I doubt a second war on the korean peniisula is in the near future,
there exisists other means to combat this obstecale witout reorting to
war and there are other countries in place that can assist to socve
the crisis
If President Bush had consulted with his father before launching this
clownish, disastrous war, he might have gotten some advice that would have
pointed him in a different direction
Most likely but then again the finiancal boon to certain countries by
maitaining the staus quo would still be the same so the outcome most
likely would have been similar.
and spared his country - and the
families of the many thousands dead - a lot of grief.
No anytine that you send soilders into a battle you have to expect
that some will not return.
Azrael
The thiest/diest defense:
1)I believe in god, ergo god exists
2)I believe in god, ergo I know what god wills, wants, the path to god, etc.
3)I believe in god, ergo I am right/correct
4)You don't agree with me, you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
5)You dont' beleive as I do then you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
6)You want proof of god? (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
7)You have evidence god does not exist (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
8)If you don't believe as I do you are wrong (see 1,2,and/or 3 above)
There was no "before" the beginning of our universe, because once upon a time there was no time.
John D. Barrow
Question #1: If I get im my spaceship and fly to the very edge of the universe what do I see out the front window?
Question #2: What is the most mass/matter that a black hole can obsorb and what happens after it reaches that point and trys to absorb more matter?
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: "A higher father that I appeal to." |
11 May 2005 06:53:50 AM |
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On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:42:12 GMT, (Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:
May 9, 2005
Stranger Than Fiction
By BOB HERBERT
When Bob Woodward asked President Bush if he had consulted with his father
about the decision to go to war in Iraq, the president famously replied,
"There is a higher father that I appeal to."
It was a mis-print for "fatuously".
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