| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
30 Jul 2003 10:10:41 PM |
| Object: |
A history lesson: Music that mocks Scientology |
Have you ever wondered what the history of the Scientology cult would
be like if set to music? Well, here's a musical coverage of the
cult's so-called "primary governing policy" offered by none other
than the world famous El Queso Allstars:
El Queso Allstars -- Make Money Make More Money
http://crimjob.tripod.com/mmoney.mp3
Scientologists call me a bigot.
I'm here with the court facts, it's a music picket.
It's for all the critics and the lurkers who dig it,
'Cause we KNOW it gives 'em rickets when we kick it
like this:
Pill poppin', rum swiggin', wife beatin', friend cheatin',
check bouncin', ***** wobblin, race hatin', goat bombin',
homophobic, coke sniffin', chain smokin', salad quizzin',
warrant dodgin', no good conman.
L. Ron Hubbard was a man of his word, but his words
were lies and turds, fat like his thighs. They were so
oversized it defies my capacity to measure his insanity.
I wonder if he planned to be a fraud like he turned out,
all burned out. With no will, then two wills, then dead,
with an ***** full of vistiril.
(Music that mocks Scientology.)
Pill poppin', rum swiggin', wife beatin', friend cheatin',
check bouncin', ***** wobblin, race hatin', goat bombin',
homophobic, coke sniffin', chain smokin', salad quizzin',
warrant dodgin', no good conman.
He lied for a living, always taking, never giving anything
but orders. A hoarder of money and guns and drugs and thugs
and intelligence.
It's a good thing that his lackeys were incompetent.
Operation Snow White showed right through the disguise of
propriety, the mask of legality. The veneer was stripped
away to show us the true face of the Church of Scientology.
Their ACTUAL philosophy:
Make money, Make more money! (Money)
Make money, Make more money! (Money)
Make money, Make more money! (Money)
Make money, Make more money! (Money)
Mary Sue Hubbard and ten other clams were eventually jailed
for a sinister plan to infiltrate and wiretap the world's
governments, find info that could harm them, steal files
and documents, and try to sneak away with them.
But guess who got caught in a paranoid plot?
( WHAT?! )
It was Mary Sue! What's Hubbard gonna do? You think he
stepped in to save the day? No fucking way! That coward
hid until his dying day.
Make money, Make more money!
Make money, Make more money!
Make money, Make more money!
Make money, Make more money!
Scientology. What can be said? ***** poured from the head
of a madman that's dead and gone. There's something very
wrong with Ron. His dong don't work. The guys a jerk. His
wall of *****: 8 million thick. Charlatan tricks for pompous
*****.
For followers who take the fist - El Queso Allstars bring
you this.
Pill poppin', rum swiggin', wife beatin', friend cheatin',
check bouncin', ***** wobblin, race hatin', goat bombin',
homophobic, coke sniffin', chain smokin', salad quizzin',
warrant dodgin', no good conman.
Touchmonkey pops up to ***** on the clam's crop and drops
with the fusion that mocks the illusion. Queso attacks with
the facts and the slack that cause idiot Rondroids confusion.
[Mix chorus]
Pill poppin', rum swiggin', wife beatin', friend cheatin', check
bouncin', ***** wobblin, race hatin', goat bombin', homophobic, coke
sniffin', chain smokin', salad quizzin', warrant dodgin', no good
conman.
Make money, Make more money! (Money)
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| User: "Ike Milligan" |
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| Title: Re: A history lesson: Music that mocks Scientology |
02 Aug 2003 08:31:16 AM |
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"Fredric L. Rice" <frice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote in message
news:vih1v1rja09qaa@corp.supernews.com...
Have you ever wondered what the history of the Scientology cult would
be like if set to music? Well, here's a musical coverage of the
cult's so-called "primary governing policy" offered by none other
than the world famous El Queso Allstars:
No, I haven't. However, as a busker I once drowned out one of their whole
bands that traveled around in a bus trying to impress people about
scientology. With a single accordion without an amp. It helped that my
accordion was one of the loudest ever made. It was quite a strain in 95
degree weather and they had a slight advantage using an acoustical pavilion.
El Queso Allstars -- Make Money Make More Money
http://crimjob.tripod.com/mmoney.mp3
Scientologists call me a bigot.
<Snipped>
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| User: "James Louis Knight" |
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| Title: please read I beg of you. |
15 Sep 2003 04:17:50 AM |
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From: "James Louis Knight" <>
To: "James Louis Knight" <>
Subject: Dear Friends, please read I beg of you.
Date: Friday, September 12, 2003 12:22 AM
Dear Friends, please read I beg of you.
I beg of you to read this Email very carefully and note everything it says.
please pray for me that I will pray for you guys in my mind and out-loud.
and decide to love myself. and Love Jesus Christ.
please read all of it I beg of you.
You might go to Heaven without being a Christian:
NIV Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in
God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared
righteous.14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature
things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they
do not have the law,15 since they show that the requirements of the law are
written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their
thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)
But you should be told the gospel as Jesus commanded us:
So you are being told. Please read, I beg of you.
Emphasis on GO.
NIV Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven
and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore GO and make disciples of all
nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
NIV Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good
news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but
whoever does not believe will be condemned.
NIV Luke 24:46 He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will
suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance and
forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning
at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.
NIV John 21:15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter,
"Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?" "Yes, Lord," he
said, "you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my lambs." 16 Again
Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?" He answered, "Yes,
Lord, you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep." 17 The
third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was
hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said,
"Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my
sheep.
You might go to Heaven without being a Christian Romans 2:13-15, but once
you are told about Jesus Christ Mt 28:18,
Mk 16:15 you should acknowledge Him before men or you will not go to Heaven.
Mt 10:32.
Must acknowledge Jesus Christ before men:
Must put Christ first:
If you do not acknowledge Christ before all men once told the gospel
you will die in Hell.
NIV Matthew 10:32 "Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also
acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before
men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
NIV Matthew 10:37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not
worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not
worthy of me; 38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not
worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his
life for my sake will find it.
NIV Luke 12:8 "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of
Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. 9 But he who disowns
me before men will be disowned before the angels of God.
NIV Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come
after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For
whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for
me will find it. 26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole
world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his
soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his
angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
NIV Mark 8:34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and
said: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his
cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but
whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good
is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? 37 Or what
can a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and
my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be
ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."
NIV Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he
must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever
wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will
save it. 25 What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose
or forfeit his very self? 26 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the
Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the
glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
There will be no atheists in Hell.
No atheists in Hell:
Most Buddhists are atheists and will tell you so.
NIV Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled
himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! 9 Therefore
God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above
every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven
and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus
Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
No atheists in Heaven:
Mk.16:14
NIV Mark 16:14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he
rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe
those who had seen him after he had risen.
Jn.3:18
NIV John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not
believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of
God's one and only Son.
Jn.3:36
NIV John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever
rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Jn.8:24
NIV John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not
believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
Jn.16:8
NIV John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to
sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not
believe in me;
Ro.11:20
NIV Romans 11:20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and
you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid.
2Th.2:12
NIV 2 Thessalonians 2:12 and so that all will be condemned who have not
believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Heb.3:12
NIV Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful,
unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.
Heb.4:11
NIV Hebrews 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so
that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
Jude.5
NIV Jude 1:5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the
Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did
not believe.
Jesus Christ is LORD.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Jesus Christ is the Christ, is the Messiah, is King of Kings, and is Lord of
Lords.
Jesus Christ did come in the flesh, was born of a virgin.
Jesus Christ was raised from the dead.
And if you do not forgive others from the heart sincerely, you will die and
rot and burn in Hell for all eternity.
NIV Matthew 18:21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times
shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" 22
Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. 23
"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle
accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed
him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to
pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that
he had be sold to repay the debt. 26 "The servant fell on his knees before
him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27
The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go. 28
"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who
owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back
what you owe me!' he demanded. 29 "His fellow servant fell to his knees and
begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' 30 "But he
refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he
could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they
were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had
happened. 32 "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,'
he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33
Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?'
34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until
he should pay back all he owed. 35 "This is how my heavenly Father will
treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
Has confessed Jesus Christ is LORD before men.
Or does not want to become a Christian and is not saved nor baptized in the
name of Jesus Christ.
Am I giving an ultimatum?
Jesus Christ is?
What if you die in your sin?
If you would like to join a Christian prayer group and confess Jesus Christ
before us
please Email me at
Or you can go to a local church.
James
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
15 Sep 2003 04:38:19 AM |
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On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:17:50 -0500 in alt.atheism, James Louis Knight
("James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
From: "James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>
To: "James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>
Subject: Dear Friends, please read I beg of you.
Date: Friday, September 12, 2003 12:22 AM
Dear Friends, please read I beg of you.
I beg of you to read this Email very carefully and note everything it says.
please pray for me that I will pray for you guys in my mind and out-loud.
and decide to love myself. and Love Jesus Christ.
please read all of it I beg of you.
You might go to Heaven without being a Christian:
[snip]
Yawn. Old news.
God is infinitely merciful, QED one cannot set limits to the mercy of
God, and so no one can say with any absolute authority that any given
person is damned. Indeed, to set limits to God's mercy or pronounce on
the damnation of any individual is in effect to set oneself up in the
place of God as the final judge of each individual.
One understands that in Christian theological tradition, this is
generally considered to be an unwise, if not an uncommon, move.
Now wasn't that rather more concise?
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 **
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| User: "nenslo" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
16 Sep 2003 01:49:40 AM |
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Therion Ware wrote:
God is infinitely merciful, QED one cannot set limits to the mercy of
God, and so no one can say with any absolute authority that any given
person is damned. Indeed, to set limits to God's mercy or pronounce on
the damnation of any individual is in effect to set oneself up in the
place of God as the final judge of each individual.
To set limits on any "infinite" thing is a fundamental error.
One understands that in Christian theological tradition, this is
generally considered to be an unwise, if not an uncommon, move.
Setting limits on an infinite deity (and then pretending it was the
deity that did it) is the fundamental concept of christian theology.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
15 Sep 2003 10:45:15 AM |
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Therion Ware wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:17:50 -0500 in alt.atheism, James Louis Knight
("James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
From: "James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>
To: "James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>
Subject: Dear Friends, please read I beg of you.
Date: Friday, September 12, 2003 12:22 AM
Dear Friends, please read I beg of you.
I beg of you to read this Email very carefully and note everything it says.
please pray for me that I will pray for you guys in my mind and out-loud.
and decide to love myself. and Love Jesus Christ.
please read all of it I beg of you.
You might go to Heaven without being a Christian:
[snip]
Yawn. Old news.
God is infinitely merciful, QED one cannot set limits to the mercy of
God, and so no one can say with any absolute authority that any given
person is damned. Indeed, to set limits to God's mercy or pronounce on
the damnation of any individual is in effect to set oneself up in the
place of God as the final judge of each individual.
Arguably, setting limits to God's mercy is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit,
which is the one and only unpardonable sin.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
Is your faith so weak and your god so powerless
that, without government endorsement of your
religion, all hell will break loose?
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
15 Sep 2003 11:44:06 AM |
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On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:45:15 -0700 in alt.atheism, Gregory Gadow
(Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
Therion Ware wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 04:17:50 -0500 in alt.atheism, James Louis Knight
("James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>) said, directing the
reply to alt.atheism
From: "James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>
To: "James Louis Knight" <jlouisk@valornet.com>
Subject: Dear Friends, please read I beg of you.
Date: Friday, September 12, 2003 12:22 AM
Dear Friends, please read I beg of you.
I beg of you to read this Email very carefully and note everything it says.
please pray for me that I will pray for you guys in my mind and out-loud.
and decide to love myself. and Love Jesus Christ.
please read all of it I beg of you.
You might go to Heaven without being a Christian:
[snip]
Yawn. Old news.
God is infinitely merciful, QED one cannot set limits to the mercy of
God, and so no one can say with any absolute authority that any given
person is damned. Indeed, to set limits to God's mercy or pronounce on
the damnation of any individual is in effect to set oneself up in the
place of God as the final judge of each individual.
Arguably, setting limits to God's mercy is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit,
which is the one and only unpardonable sin.
In which case one is left to decide whether one opts to believe the
mercy of God, tops (as it were) - see DarkLady for details on this -
His, erm, Justice, or not.
Personally I find it rather informative that almost all of the
Christians we see here are rather more prone to the "justice"
scenario, and like Augustine feel that the screams of the damned are
like unto music to the residents of heaven.
Which is to say that it doesn't matter a toss whether what these
lunatics believe is true, or not. It's all to do with personal moral
responsibility that derives from what they give their explicit moral
consent to by virtue of their allegiance to this "God".
Example in point. Recently here (in aa) where the question at issue
was along the lines of "how can you regard God as benevolent given He
creates, or permit the creation of people, he (given His omniscient)
knows will suffer forever in hell"?
Not one of the Christians who came back on this had the balls to
address the question head on.
Not One.
I've been around aa, and the religious newsgroups for years. I've seen
it all. But I was *really* shocked by that. I was expecting the usual
evasions - but what did we get? Not one of the buggers even seemed to
understand the question.
Still. I suppose they may be, with some encouragement be capable of
moral choice. In due course. With enough teaching. And human
relationships. And first the capability for human relationships.
But not apparently, today, here and now.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 **
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| User: "www.saskatooncity.com" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
18 Sep 2003 04:56:25 PM |
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Example in point. Recently here (in aa) where the question at issue
was along the lines of "how can you regard God as benevolent given He
creates, or permit the creation of people, he (given His omniscient)
knows will suffer forever in hell"?
Well actually that doesn't take rocket science to figure out. God wants worship and
the return of genuine love from those that choose to do it by free will. In order
for this choice to be made, there had to be a possiblitly to not choose it, the
other side of the coin as it were, otherwise he ends up with programmed drones that
do not return genuine love to Him. The price for having this reciprication of love
is the possibility that some may fight tooth and nail in order to reject their
creator at any cost. It might even seem unfair but after all, He is soveriegn and
everything is His to do what He wants. Whether we like it or not is immaterial. The
choice is still there to be made.
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
20 Sep 2003 08:28:06 AM |
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"www.saskatooncity.com" <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:3F6A29B2.3BCE090D@shaw.ca...
Example in point. Recently here (in aa) where the question at issue
was along the lines of "how can you regard God as benevolent given He
creates, or permit the creation of people, he (given His omniscient)
knows will suffer forever in hell"?
Well actually that doesn't take rocket science to figure out. God wants
worship and
the return of genuine love from those that choose to do it by free will.
In order
for this choice to be made, there had to be a possiblitly to not choose
it, the
other side of the coin as it were, otherwise he ends up with programmed
drones that
do not return genuine love to Him. The price for having this reciprication
of love
is the possibility that some may fight tooth and nail in order to reject
their
creator at any cost. It might even seem unfair but after all, He is
soveriegn and
everything is His to do what He wants. Whether we like it or not is
immaterial. >The choice is still there to be made.
Tom: That is a big reason why I decided that God was full of *****.
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| User: "JB@nowhere" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
23 Sep 2003 02:05:20 PM |
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"Tom" <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vmolf97mfo5b1b@corp.supernews.com...
"www.saskatooncity.com" <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:3F6A29B2.3BCE090D@shaw.ca...
Example in point. Recently here (in aa) where the question at issue
was along the lines of "how can you regard God as benevolent given He
creates, or permit the creation of people, he (given His omniscient)
knows will suffer forever in hell"?
Well actually that doesn't take rocket science to figure out. God wants
worship and
the return of genuine love from those that choose to do it by free will.
Why? Is it his bread and butter? I've never understood this lack of
rationality from a sopposed "God". Why does "he" need this?
Religion is nothing more or less than a made up belief system for fools
looking to be led towards water. The "bible" is so shot full of holes as to
be a ship foundering on the waters of a great reef - and sinking fast.
"Christianity", as it is , is foundering itself...
God arranges the Fall of Man by not giving Adam and Eve a sense of right and
wrong, but He expects them to know that it's wrong to disobey Him. Poor Eve
gets the blame and the pain of all future women is increased. He created
them and He knew full well their instincts and desires, being "all knowing"
God was well aware of what they would do, but Adam and Eve had not yet eaten
of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so they did not know that
what they were doing was wrong.
The bible says they had no sin in their nature and were created perfect in
God's image and if they were truly innocent before they consumed the fruit,
how could they be held accountable for disobedience? They had no knowledge
of what disobedience meant. Even though God told them that if they ate the
fruit, they would surely die, how could they know what death really is since
they had not witnessed it or had any knowledge of death. The concept of
their deaths would have been a meaningless term.
Genesis
3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy
conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall
be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
God also spitefully subjugates women to men, ensuring that countless
generations of women are treated as chattels or second-class members of
society.
God decides that as the parents of mankind have spoiled His plan and
corrupted their nature, that it is just and mercyful that all their
decendants are equally guilty and should suffer as well. Instead of
punishing the two 'offenders', he decreed that all of Humanity should bear
the burden of guilt.
"All their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now
conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the
subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and
eternal."
Sounds more like child abuse rather than the actions of a loving Father
because in response to a solitary error, God invents and supplies pain,
conflict, hostility, and frustration to those He "made in His image" as well
as mortality itself. All these things are not the result of that single
perceived 'sin' but God's response to it ~ God introduced sin into the
world, not Adam and Eve.
Genesis
3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till
the ground from whence he was taken.
3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of
Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way
of the tree of life.
Being "all knowing" God knew the course that the knowledgeless couple would
take and deliberately chose to tempt them by drawing their attention to the
wonderous tree that He had created. Instead of gently correcting the
offenders and explaining why their actions were wrong, as any loving parent
would do, He decreed that all creation should suffer. Showing no sense of
justice or mercy ~ suppossedly also His traits ~ He condemns all of
humanities future.
Instead of creating evil an omnipotent God would have the power to create
the universe in such a manner that all available choices were good and
aligned mankind's morality, ethics and desires matched His.
Christians try to rationalise their god's creation of evil by using the
free-will arguement but free-will is only a factor if you are able to
weight-up the consequences of your decision.
One point to be bourn in mind is that the existence of evil is not necessary
for the existence of freewill so, instead of presenting us with, for
example, two possible courses of action, one resulting in what God considers
evil and one resulting in that which God considers good, He could simply
present us with the two possible good courses, and allow us to choose our
own path to goodness. Limiting or expanding the number of possible options
does not negate free choice.
Most Christians don't seem to recognize that God lied when He said in
Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Adam supposedly lived for 900 years yet here we have God saying for in the
day that thou eatest ~ and not keeping His word about killing someone. And
the serpents punishment for telling the truth in Genesis 3:4? "And the
serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:"
"...upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of
thy life."
Interestingly, there is not one type of serpent or snake that eats dirt.
Another interesting fact is that there is no mention in Genesis of God
giving free-will to Adam and Eve. What is very evident about the book of
Genesis is that it contains two accounts of the creation of the Earth and
Mankind. One would think that, as these two accounts reflect different
authors, different time periods, different orders of creation and the
narratives contradict each other on several important points, they are not
the "words of God" or even inspired by God.
One might even come to the conclusion that Genesis is a written account of
the various tribal myths and legends and the reason for the differences is
that they were first preserved orally, with differences creeping in as they
were passed down over the generations. As each was espoused by a different
sect, and it was impossible to merge them, the initial redacter simply wrote
both of them back to back. The redacter considered both to be of equal
importance so both were included.
What is annoying, irritating and absurd is when someone tries to pretend
that there are not two different accounts, from two different sources, with
two different stories.
What a "God"...
In order
for this choice to be made, there had to be a possiblitly to not choose
it, the
other side of the coin as it were, otherwise he ends up with programmed
drones that
do not return genuine love to Him. The price for having this
reciprication
of love
is the possibility that some may fight tooth and nail in order to reject
their
creator at any cost. It might even seem unfair but after all, He is
soveriegn and
everything is His to do what He wants. Whether we like it or not is
immaterial. >The choice is still there to be made.
Tom: That is a big reason why I decided that God was full of *****.
Agreed.
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| User: "John Hattan" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
20 Sep 2003 08:36:50 PM |
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"www.saskatooncity.com" <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
God wants worship and the return of genuine love from those that
choose to do it by free will.
Why would an infinite god be so insecure that he would want worship from
the creatures he created?
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
john@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
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| User: "yup" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 09:16:37 AM |
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Why would an infinite god be so insecure that he would want worship from
the creatures he created?
So I take it you never had or wanted a girlfriend, wife or companion. Are
you saying that every guy who wants a relationship with that special some is
insecure?
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| User: "Ichimusai" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 09:33:42 AM |
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If you can not read this post, go to http://ichimusai.org/oe/
begin "yup" == yup <skcity@shaw.ca> muses:
Why would an infinite god be so insecure that he would want worship
from the creatures he created?
So I take it you never had or wanted a girlfriend, wife or
companion. Are you saying that every guy who wants a relationship
with that special some is insecure?
Maybe, if he spend his time longing for it before having met said
special person I think it's a bit sad at least.
--
Ichimusai - Tolerated by two cats. ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo: Ichimusai
IRC: Ichimusai#AmigaSWE@IRCnet URI: http://www.ichimusai.org/
"It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that
engendered religion."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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| User: "yup" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 09:44:25 AM |
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So I take it you never had or wanted a girlfriend, wife or
companion. Are you saying that every guy who wants a relationship
with that special some is insecure?
Maybe, if he spend his time longing for it before having met said
special person I think it's a bit sad at least.
Then that rules out God as nuerotic. All "linear time" exists in God at
one and He is not effected by time. He is "above the law" so to speak.
Albert Einstien sowed mathematically that time ceases to have any meaning
when you reach the speed of light. The Bible states that God IS light,
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 05:20:44 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:44:25 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
So I take it you never had or wanted a girlfriend, wife or
companion. Are you saying that every guy who wants a relationship
with that special some is insecure?
Maybe, if he spend his time longing for it before having met said
special person I think it's a bit sad at least.
Then that rules out God as nuerotic. All "linear time" exists in God at
one and He is not effected by time. He is "above the law" so to speak.
Albert Einstien sowed mathematically that time ceases to have any meaning
when you reach the speed of light. The Bible states that God IS light,
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
And yet he makes plans. Round and round we go.
Thomas P.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 09:47:08 AM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:44:25 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
So I take it you never had or wanted a girlfriend, wife or
companion. Are you saying that every guy who wants a relationship
with that special some is insecure?
Maybe, if he spend his time longing for it before having met said
special person I think it's a bit sad at least.
Then that rules out God as nuerotic. All "linear time" exists in God at
one and He is not effected by time. He is "above the law" so to speak.
Figments of your imagination are above the law.
But nobody would give a ***** about them if if you only kept them to
yourselves.
Albert Einstien sowed mathematically that time ceases to have any meaning
when you reach the speed of light. The Bible states that God IS light,
Who gives a ***** what the bible says? Why can't you morons realise
just how irrelevant it is in the real world?
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
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| User: "yup" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 09:49:48 AM |
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therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
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| User: "Tom" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 04:25:01 PM |
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"yup" <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:3F6DBA38.9F7FDFDC@shaw.ca...
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He
is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
yup: Its a theory. Got a better one?
Tom: I think I see your problem. You don't have a clue as to the definition
of a theory.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 04:22:02 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 +0000, yup wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He
is immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
It's not a theory.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "John Hattan" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 04:24:10 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 +0000, yup wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He
is immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
It's not a theory.
Of course it's a theory. It says right there "Its[sic] a theory."
Are you trying to argue with the almighty "because I say so"?
---
John Hattan Grand High UberPope - First Church of Shatnerology
john@thecodezone.com http://www.shatnerology.com
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 05:20:45 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
You developed a theory to explain something nobody has ever seen or
has any evidence for? That is brilliant.
Thomas P.
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| User: "JB@nowhere" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
23 Sep 2003 02:25:50 PM |
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"Thomas P." <tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote in message
news:iu8smvsjojf7kqvmhuvc41oe5i33uej6l6@4ax.com...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently
He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
You developed a theory to explain something nobody has ever seen or
has any evidence for? That is brilliant.
The following are some of the standard cliches encountered by atheists who
debate with Christians on discussion lists, forums, etc.
"I'll pray for you"
Does it make sense to believe that an all-knowing, all-powerful and all
benevolent God has to be reminded that their followers need help? And does
God pay more attention to the situation when we pray?
Christians believe that God has a divine plan for everyone so praying is
pointless. This means that if God has everything planned out then things are
going to happen the way God planned it, whether you pray or not.
All I can do is pray that you will see the light. I hope you find what you
are searching for.
Your Christian curse is doomed to failure. Only the ignorant who believe in
curses can be "harmed" by them. As for what I'm searching for, that's quite
easilly come by. A trip to the local library usually is enough, in fact.
Might I suggest you download and review the Walk Away package that's
available here? It certainly sounds as if you're desperately looking for a
way to escape your misery. No one need know. Don't tell your masters!
It takes a lot more faith to ignore the evidence of God than it does to
believe in him.
There is no evidence for God. Every "proof" presented by Christians has been
speedily and easily debunked. Many Christian Apologists attempt to get
around the lack proof for their god by invoking such things as "The
Hiddeness of God" doctrine:
This reticent God does not like to force himself on people. He wishes to be
sought for his own sake, not for the sake of the signs he can do, and
therefore does not reveal Himself . He wants to be sought and found; he does
not want to impose himself on those who are not interested, much less on
those who reject Him. This shows us how truely wise and great God is."
I only wish that my faith in God was as strong as your faith in Atheism.
A lot of people misunderstand atheism; it's simply a lack of belief in
God/s. It does not require faith. Most people don't realise that atheism is
the default position when we are born. No one is born a Christian, a Muslim,
a Jew, a Jane, a Hindu or as a member of any other religious persuasion.In
most cases we learn our faith and beliefs 'at our mother's knee' before our
critical facualties are developed. This is another reason why it's so hard
to question our faith ~ it forms part of our core beliefs and worldview.
As for what else Atheism has to offer, it offers freedom of the mind -
Freedom to think for yourself instead of letting a clergyman do it for you.
Science thrives on the unknown whilst Christianity denies it.
Evolution violates the 2nd law of Thermodynamics
No it doesn't.
Very briefly, the 2nd law of thermodynamics says that in a closed system,
overall disorder can only increase with time. This does not mean that every
part of the closed system must move toward disorder in lock step. Organisms
increase in complexity and islands of order increase on
earth because we have the benefit of the sun's energy that drives these
processes. Indeed, natural selection is one of the more remarkable ordering
systems in the universe, but it can only operate in this manner because it
is fueled at the expense of the increasing disorder of the
sun. In other words, Earth, which is fed by the sun, is an open system
within a larger closed system, the universe.
Once the earth's outside energy sources, such as the sun and star light, and
its more limited internal chemical and radioactive resources, are fully
depleted, life and
evolution will no longer be possible. That time may only be a few billion
years off, but for now, let's enjoy what we have.
There's a lot more information at Talk Origins and Cornell Astro
Remember, it is not a weakness admiting that science doesn't know all the
answers as yet. A lack of scientific certainty, however does not mean that
the vacuum has to be automatically filled by 'God did it" myths.
With thanks to John Anderson...
Jack Barber
Thomas P.
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| User: "George Tirebiter" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
23 Sep 2003 05:10:42 PM |
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In article <OR2cb.1246$hp5.353@fed1read04>,
"JB@nowhere" <mblackjac1@donteventhinkaboutit,cox.net> wrote:
The following are some of the standard cliches encountered by atheists who
debate with Christians on discussion lists, forums, etc.
"I'll pray for you"
You need a magic christian decoding ring. "I'll pray for you" is the way
christians say "***** you"
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| User: "JB@nowhere" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
23 Sep 2003 03:25:37 PM |
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"George Tirebiter" <Tirebiter7@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Tirebiter7-37EB50.17104223092003@news.fu-berlin.de...
In article <OR2cb.1246$hp5.353@fed1read04>,
"JB@nowhere" <mblackjac1@donteventhinkaboutit,cox.net> wrote:
The following are some of the standard cliches encountered by atheists
who
debate with Christians on discussion lists, forums, etc.
"I'll pray for you"
You need a magic christian decoding ring. "I'll pray for you" is the way
christians say "***** you"
Indeed...
Jack
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| User: "Me" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 05:30:36 PM |
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:20:45 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
You developed a theory to explain something nobody has ever seen or
has any evidence for? That is brilliant.
Thomas P.
Correction it is a theory YOU have no use for. I do have a use for it.
It gives ME a plausible explanation for how God can exist in the
universe and not be effected by time. And again, if you have a better
HYPOTHESIS, Please post it.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 10:37:56 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:30:36 +0000, Me wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:20:45 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
You developed a theory to explain something nobody has ever seen or
has any evidence for? That is brilliant.
Thomas P.
Correction it is a theory YOU have no use for. I do have a use for it.
It gives ME a plausible explanation for how God can exist in the
universe and not be effected by time. And again, if you have a better
HYPOTHESIS, Please post it.
No, sorry, it's still not a theory.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 05:56:53 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:30:36 GMT, Me <sorry@not.likely> in news
message <c39smv82et48s0mbh6jrkst7rapee81chv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:20:45 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
You developed a theory to explain something nobody has ever seen or
has any evidence for? That is brilliant.
Correction it is a theory YOU have no use for. I do have a use for it.
It gives ME a plausible explanation for how God can exist in the
universe and not be effected by time. And again, if you have a better
HYPOTHESIS, Please post it.
GodŽ doesn't exist. There is no need for any an explanation,
plausible or implausible, for phenomena that can not be observed.
Liz #658 BAAWA
There is no way, even in principle, to distinguish one
supernatural explanation from another. -- "Hiero5ant"
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| User: "JB@nowhere" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
23 Sep 2003 02:30:36 PM |
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"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:hfasmvgvu75g93r01jqepqoo5o1p676an4@4ax.com...
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:30:36 GMT, Me <sorry@not.likely> in news
message <c39smv82et48s0mbh6jrkst7rapee81chv@4ax.com> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:20:45 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently
He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
You developed a theory to explain something nobody has ever seen or
has any evidence for? That is brilliant.
Correction it is a theory YOU have no use for. I do have a use for it.
It gives ME a plausible explanation for how God can exist in the
universe and not be effected by time. And again, if you have a better
HYPOTHESIS, Please post it.
GodŽ doesn't exist. There is no need for any an explanation,
plausible or implausible, for phenomena that can not be observed.
Liz #658 BAAWA
There is no way, even in principle, to distinguish one
supernatural explanation from another. -- "Hiero5ant"
One thing I've often wondered about is why the Christian bible should need a
lawyerly defence, because surely a work written either directly by God,
dictated by Him or inspired by Him would be clearly distinct from the works
of fallen, sinful mortals. Surely He would have done a much better job of it
if He was even very indirectly involved.
Why did God need a scribe? He could have done it Himself and left not even a
shadow of doubt they are His works. By using fallible, bungling humans God
guaranteed the introduction of error.
He sure as hell did it with Moses - or did he?
Jack
BTW , why in all the Gods names did Moses need a staff to part the Red Sea?
Why didn't this ficticious "God" do it for him???
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| User: "Thomas P." |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
22 Sep 2003 01:56:18 AM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:30:36 GMT, Me <sorry@not.likely> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:20:45 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
You developed a theory to explain something nobody has ever seen or
has any evidence for? That is brilliant.
Thomas P.
Correction it is a theory YOU have no use for.
I said nothing about use at all. You seem to be very good at seeing
things that are not there.
I do have a use for it.
It gives ME a plausible explanation for how God can exist in the
universe and not be effected by time. And again, if you have a better
HYPOTHESIS, Please post it.
Why not apply the same logic one would to anything else? If nobody
has ever seen it, if there is no evidence for it, if it contradicts
logic, put it in the same category as Aladdin and his lamp.
Thomas P.
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| User: "ShyDavid" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
22 Sep 2003 11:09:12 AM |
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It's pretty goddamned pathetic when an occultist feels he has to *BEG*
people to read his crap.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: please read I beg of you. |
21 Sep 2003 10:42:36 PM |
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:30:36 GMT, Me <sorry@not.likely> wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 00:20:45 +0200, Thomas P.
<tonyofremovethisbexar@yahoo.dk,> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:49:48 GMT, yup <skcity@shaw.ca> wrote:
therefore he is always moving at the speed of light and consequently He is
immune to the effect of time unlike ourselves.
Stupid rationalisation.
Its a theory. Got a better one?
You developed a theory to explain something nobody has ever seen or
has any evidence for? That is brilliant.
Thomas P.
Correction it is a theory YOU have no use for. I do have a use for it.
It gives ME a plausible explanation for how God can exist in the
universe and not be effected by time. And again, if you have a better
HYPOTHESIS, Please post it.
Learn what a theory is. Also what a baseless assertion is.
And while you're at it, define "God" in such a way that it could exit,
using real world explanations, then demonstrate its existence, using
real world evidence etc.
If you can't do this then it remains a figment of your deluded
imagination and you have nothing whatsoever to say about it.
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