| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Lisa Horton" |
| Date: |
18 Apr 2004 09:46:49 PM |
| Object: |
A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be with
him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He said, "And
if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to
enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be
thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not
quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear that sinners end up in a
horrible place, but there is more than one "hell". Hell is used to
translate three different Greek words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
.
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| User: "Raymond" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 10:08:36 AM |
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"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be with
him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He said, "And
if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to
enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be
thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not
quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear that sinners end up in a
horrible place, but there is more than one "hell". Hell is used to
translate three different Greek words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person doesn't
believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about things
now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist until it
does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure you could help me
out, and find something that would say what I wanted to say, and which
doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them that
know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Liz, you like most people do not want to have faith in
things which have no basis in reality. -- josalt
.
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| User: "Marc Fleury" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
29 Apr 2004 11:14:21 AM |
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"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond" wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote..
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers....
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to
exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure
you could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted
to say, and which doesn't have prove it exist.
Absolutely. The metaphor that you intended was this:
Just because you don't believe in Santa Claus, that doesn't mean that
there won't be any presents under the tree.
--
Marc.
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 10:32:45 AM |
|
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"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does
not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is
clear that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more
than one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to
exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure
you could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted
to say, and which doesn't have prove it exist.
Good luck and no, we don't have to help. We'll gladly watch you flounder
around though.
Wind can not be seen,
but felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Wind can be felt even by them who do not know wind.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.
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| User: "Raymond" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 07:23:31 PM |
|
|
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D07574BFDE2fstone69@207.69.154.205...
"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does
not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is
clear that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more
than one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to
exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure
you could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted
to say, and which doesn't have prove it exist.
Good luck and no, we don't have to help. We'll gladly watch you flounder
around though.
Keep watching, you never see me flounder.
Wind can not be seen,
but felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Wind can be felt even by them who do not know wind.
That is so true, as many feel the wind of God, and turn from their sins, as
they then know God is.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.
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| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
20 Apr 2004 08:02:06 AM |
|
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"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:40847bb9$3_1@rain.i-cable.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D07574BFDE2fstone69@207.69.154.205...
"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers.
He said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It
is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye
than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their
worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark
9:47-48). It is clear that sinners end up in a horrible
place, but there is more than one "hell". Hell is used to
translate three different Greek words: Gehenna, Hades, and
Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is
about things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be
shown to exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another
metaphor, I sure you could help me out, and find something that
would say what I wanted to say, and which doesn't have prove it
exist.
Good luck and no, we don't have to help. We'll gladly watch you
flounder around though.
Keep watching, you never see me flounder.
Wind can not be seen,
but felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Wind can be felt even by them who do not know wind.
That is so true, as many feel the wind of God, and turn from their
sins, as they then know God is.
You just contradicted yourself.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
22 Apr 2004 06:53:00 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:02:06 GMT, Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com>,
Message ID: <Xns94D15BE94C9F0fstone69@207.69.154.202> wrote in
alt.atheism;
"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:40847bb9$3_1@rain.i-cable.com:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D07574BFDE2fstone69@207.69.154.205...
"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers.
He said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It
is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye
than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their
worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark
9:47-48). It is clear that sinners end up in a horrible
place, but there is more than one "hell". Hell is used to
translate three different Greek words: Gehenna, Hades, and
Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is
about things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be
shown to exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another
metaphor, I sure you could help me out, and find something that
would say what I wanted to say, and which doesn't have prove it
exist.
Good luck and no, we don't have to help. We'll gladly watch you
flounder around though.
Keep watching, you never see me flounder.
Wind can not be seen,
but felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Wind can be felt even by them who do not know wind.
That is so true, as many feel the wind of God, and turn from their
sins, as they then know God is.
You just contradicted yourself.
Such is the province of Raymond the mindless fundamentalist who excretes
his brain every few days.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
20 Apr 2004 09:13:24 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:23:31 +0800, "Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D07574BFDE2fstone69@207.69.154.205...
"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does
not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is
clear that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more
than one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to
exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure
you could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted
to say, and which doesn't have prove it exist.
Good luck and no, we don't have to help. We'll gladly watch you flounder
around though.
Keep watching, you never see me flounder.
Wind can not be seen,
but felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Wind can be felt even by them who do not know wind.
That is so true, as many feel the wind of God, and turn from their sins, as
they then know God is.
The Bible does say that God farts loudly.
Isa 16:11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine
inward parts for Kir-haresh.
--
Fred Stone
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
22 Apr 2004 06:53:41 PM |
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On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:13:24 +1000, Barry OGrady
<god_freee_jones@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<jrba805do44cvhqmg4kius2as99b5e4gag@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:23:31 +0800, "Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D07574BFDE2fstone69@207.69.154.205...
"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does
not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is
clear that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more
than one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to
exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure
you could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted
to say, and which doesn't have prove it exist.
Good luck and no, we don't have to help. We'll gladly watch you flounder
around though.
Keep watching, you never see me flounder.
Wind can not be seen,
but felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Wind can be felt even by them who do not know wind.
That is so true, as many feel the wind of God, and turn from their sins, as
they then know God is.
The Bible does say that God farts loudly.
Isa 16:11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine
inward parts for Kir-haresh.
Don't strike that spark!!!!!!
BAHOOOOM!
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "erikc" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
21 Apr 2004 04:21:28 PM |
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|
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:13:24 +1000, Barry OGrady <god_freee_jones@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:23:31 +0800, "Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Fred Stone" <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D07574BFDE2fstone69@207.69.154.205...
"Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does
not die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is
clear that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more
than one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to
exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure
you could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted
to say, and which doesn't have prove it exist.
Good luck and no, we don't have to help. We'll gladly watch you flounder
around though.
Keep watching, you never see me flounder.
Wind can not be seen,
but felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Wind can be felt even by them who do not know wind.
That is so true, as many feel the wind of God, and turn from their sins, as
they then know God is.
The Bible does say that God farts loudly.
Isa 16:11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine
inward parts for Kir-haresh.
Don't light any matches around him.
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 11:30:00 AM |
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|
Lo, many moons past, on Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800, a stranger
called by some "Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about things
now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist until it
does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure you could help me
out, and find something that would say what I wanted to say, and which
doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them that
know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
The difference is I can measure the wind, explain its presence, and
make accurate predictions as to speed and direction of the wind
tomorrow.
I have a friend who feels the presence of the Norse pantheon just as
strongly as you do your deity. Are you both right?
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 07:29:20 PM |
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"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:thv780l8nfa7uipa0ogk44idosk9j48k7l@4ax.com...
Lo, many moons past, on Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800, a stranger
called by some "Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things
now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist until
it
does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure you could help me
out, and find something that would say what I wanted to say, and which
doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them
that
know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
The difference is I can measure the wind, explain its presence, and
make accurate predictions as to speed and direction of the wind
tomorrow.
You can try, the above applies to the Spirit of God also, to them that know
how to measure His presence and do not need to explain such, as it obvious,
God is with them, as for tomorrow, that is not a problem to predict what
will happen a year or more is no problem either, to them that Know God.
I have a friend who feels the presence of the Norse pantheon just as
strongly as you do your deity. Are you both right?
There is no way to judge his feelings and mine, in fact you have no way of
knowing what I feel, you never met me, and I do not remember writing to you
before either. I am sure evil can be felt, and delusions are part of life
for many. Then water can be felt by both, doesn't mean one person is wrong
when they say it feels cold, and the other says, it feels wet. Then I do
not have a deity.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
20 Apr 2004 09:47:40 AM |
|
|
Lo, many moons past, on Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:29:20 +0800, a stranger
called by some "Raymond" <NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> came forth and
told this tale in alt.atheism
"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:thv780l8nfa7uipa0ogk44idosk9j48k7l@4ax.com...
The difference is I can measure the wind, explain its presence, and
make accurate predictions as to speed and direction of the wind
tomorrow.
You can try, the above applies to the Spirit of God also, to them that know
how to measure His presence and do not need to explain such, as it obvious,
God is with them, as for tomorrow, that is not a problem to predict what
will happen a year or more is no problem either, to them that Know God.
Sorry, but to be proven it can't just be proven by certain persons of
the correct mindset. Under that theory, every single mythological
creature ever actually exists because somebody, at some point truly
believed in it.
You and I could go to a hill top somewhere, set up a simple
instrument, and measure the wind's velocity. No matter who looked at
the instruments, it would show the same velocity. It wouldn't matter
what they believed, the evidence would be there.
However, your evidence for the existence of a deity seems to be "I
know it." That isn't evidence, that's an unsubstantiated claim.
I have a friend who feels the presence of the Norse pantheon just as
strongly as you do your deity. Are you both right?
There is no way to judge his feelings and mine, in fact you have no way of
knowing what I feel, you never met me, and I do not remember writing to you
before either. I am sure evil can be felt, and delusions are part of life
for many. Then water can be felt by both, doesn't mean one person is wrong
when they say it feels cold, and the other says, it feels wet. Then I do
not have a deity.
Her feelings.
Humans are more perceptive than we realize. We do get "vibes" off
people who are subtly doing things that fall a bit outside our normal
perceptions. I've been known to weird people out because I habitually
do "scans" while I walk down the street. I check left, right, windows,
etc. It's a habit I picked up in the Army. Does that make me evil?
Your final point in meaningless in context of my friends belief. She
feels the daily presence of Freya and Odin in her life. She prays to
them, makes offerings, and considers them to be an important part of
the world. How is her experience any less valid than yours?
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
20 Apr 2004 11:58:37 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800 in episode
<4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com> we saw our hero "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com>:
Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist
until it does.
I like it when the propeller on your beanie stands still and your head
spins like that...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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| User: "Raymond" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
21 Apr 2004 03:51:25 AM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.04.21.04.58.36.996605@hoo.com-amikchi...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800 in episode
<4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com> we saw our hero "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com>:
Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist
until it does.
I like it when the propeller on your beanie stands still and your head
spins like that...
Yeah , that does make for fun, can you teach me how you do that?
Raymond
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
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| User: "Liz" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 06:00:28 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be with
him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He said, "And
if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to
enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be
thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not
quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear that sinners end up in a
horrible place, but there is more than one "hell". Hell is used to
translate three different Greek words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person doesn't
believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also.
Yes, nonexistent air is just as nonexistent as nonexistent gods.
However, we can demonstrate, here and now, on this very planet, that
air exists. The same can not be demonstrated for GodŽ.
Then this is about things
now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist until it
does.
Are you saying that HellŽ doesn't exist until you die? Are not heaven
and hell supposed to be eternal?
And yes, I agree with your statement that something can not be shown
to exist until it actually exists, which is the reason that most
atheists are atheist. GodŽ can not be shown to exist.
Maybe I could of used another metaphor,
I really don't care about metaphors. Try offering some objective
evidence instead.
I sure you could help me
out, and find something that would say what I wanted to say, and which
doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them that
know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Visual verification is not necessary for evidence. Any objective
method of determining the existence of GodŽ would be appropriate.
Evidence for the existence of air includes the ability to measure its
pressure, temperature, and its chemical constituents. Wind, which is
moving air, can be measured for velocity and direction.
GodŽ can't be measured or even detected. Subjective ootsie feelings
do not count as evidence.
Liz #658 BAAWA
"Spiritually alive" apparently means that you are confusing your
internal mental constructs with actually existing things. Hans-Richard Gruemm
.
|
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| User: "Raymond" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 08:03:38 PM |
|
|
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:n1m88091pmfpr5s92o7pis2t93jf6jpo47@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also.
Yes, nonexistent air is just as nonexistent as nonexistent gods.
However, we can demonstrate, here and now, on this very planet, that
air exists. The same can not be demonstrated for GodŽ.
I would agree with your statements above, about nonexistent anything, then
God is, and so there is nothing nonexistent about God.
One can also prove here and now, that in a vacuum there is no air. Going
down into the earth, the deeper one goes the Air ends. To the vacuum there
is no air, where it seems some keep their mind, so they will not have to
deal with the Air or the Spirit of things they do not understand.
Then this is about things
now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist until
it
does.
Are you saying that HellŽ doesn't exist until you die? Are not heaven
and hell supposed to be eternal?
I not saying any such thing, I not looking forward to finding if it is now
or later. There are things that will never be know for sure, till the
matter is met. Death has shown the body is dead, what happen to the soul or
that essence of the person, is in question by some. Jesus like others have
died, and came back to life, and they report there is a life after death.
So till then we will either accept their word or reject it, in the end we
will know. Till then, I would think the word of them that went on, and came
back would hold more truth, then just what we think about it.
And yes, I agree with your statement that something can not be shown
to exist until it actually exists, which is the reason that most
atheists are atheist. GodŽ can not be shown to exist.
Sure He can, I was like the atheist for near 20 years, till one day I hear
the Bible and the God of the Bible, His Spirit reached out and touched me,
and it was real, I knew then, I was wrong and I was in the presents of a
power that I never knew before, and that had to power to give or take life.
Oh yes God existence is proven, by the life's God has touched, and who have
changed from evil to good. God is not hid, His presents is strong where
people who love Him are, like family, the members know each other a stranger
is known not to be part of that group. So the outsider only looks on, and
denies what they have not touched or seen personally. Then I sure this is
way over your understanding and what you been told.
Maybe I could of used another metaphor,
I really don't care about metaphors. Try offering some objective
evidence instead.
I did, and you rejected it, so was hoping you could offer a objective reply,
instead of just rejecting what you do not understand.
I sure you could help me
out, and find something that would say what I wanted to say, and which
doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them
that
know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Visual verification is not necessary for evidence. Any objective
I like that, a clarification that doesn't deny such, and show to many it
Does present the evidence, only "not necessary" just doesn't cut the butter.
method of determining the existence of GodŽ would be appropriate.
Then to one what is objective is not objective to another, still bring it
back to what you want to accept and the rest has to be wrong.
Evidence for the existence of air includes the ability to measure its
pressure, temperature, and its chemical constituents. Wind, which is
moving air, can be measured for velocity and direction.
Healings, and change life's are also measurable, as well as answer to
prayer, when such prayers could not have happen, unless someone was able to
hear them and act on them, to do what mankind could not do. That is why the
bible says with man things are impossible but with God nothing is
impossible. I have seen the results of prayer in the lives of hundreds of
people I know personally. The Bible says God is like the wind, cannot be
seen, only the results can be known.
GodŽ can't be measured or even detected. Subjective ootsie feelings
do not count as evidence.
Why the can't? Sure God can be detected, known and measured because of what
God does do for His people. Then that has nothing to do with ootsie
feelings, then when a cold or warm wind is near, one does measure such by
that "ootsie" feeling. even you know that.
I will unlink this from here, only wanted to give you a reply, as you took
the time to write.
The Lord bless you and save you.
Raymond
Liz #658 BAAWA
"Spiritually alive" apparently means that you are confusing your
internal mental constructs with actually existing things. Hans-Richard
Gruemm
.
|
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
20 Apr 2004 11:59:42 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:38 +0800 in episode
<40847bbb_1@rain.i-cable.com> we saw our hero "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com>:
Sure He can, I was like the atheist for near 20 years, till one day I hear
the Bible and the God of the Bible, His Spirit reached out and touched me,
and it was real, I knew then, I was wrong and I was in the presents of a
power that I never knew before, and that had to power to give or take
life.
How do you know it wasn't just gas?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism,
because it is a merger of State and corporate power."
- Mussolini
.
|
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
22 Apr 2004 06:57:01 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:59:42 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi>,
Message ID: <pan.2004.04.21.04.59.41.506318@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in
alt.atheism;
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:38 +0800 in episode
<40847bbb_1@rain.i-cable.com> we saw our hero "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com>:
Sure He can, I was like the atheist for near 20 years, till one day I hear
the Bible and the God of the Bible, His Spirit reached out and touched me,
and it was real, I knew then, I was wrong and I was in the presents of a
power that I never knew before, and that had to power to give or take
life.
How do you know it wasn't just gas?
Bad sausages.......
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.
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| User: "Liz" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
21 Apr 2004 05:45:42 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:38 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<40847bbb_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:n1m88091pmfpr5s92o7pis2t93jf6jpo47@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also.
Yes, nonexistent air is just as nonexistent as nonexistent gods.
However, we can demonstrate, here and now, on this very planet, that
air exists. The same can not be demonstrated for GodŽ.
I would agree with your statements above, about nonexistent anything, then
God is, and so there is nothing nonexistent about God.
Except that GodŽ can not be detected by any objective means.
One can also prove here and now, that in a vacuum there is no air. Going
down into the earth, the deeper one goes the Air ends. To the vacuum there
is no air, where it seems some keep their mind, so they will not have to
deal with the Air or the Spirit of things they do not understand.
You are babbling.
Then this is about things
now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist until
it
does.
Are you saying that HellŽ doesn't exist until you die? Are not heaven
and hell supposed to be eternal?
I not saying any such thing, I not looking forward to finding if it is now
or later. There are things that will never be know for sure, till the
matter is met.
If something is nonexistent, then the "matter" will never be met no
matter how long you wait.
Death has shown the body is dead, what happen to the soul or
that essence of the person, is in question by some.
But not to everyone. There is no objective evidence for a soul just
as there is no objective evidence for gods. To wonder where something
has gone that had no evidence for existence in the first place seem a
rather ineffective pursuit.
As I was walking up the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish, I wish he'd stay away
Hughes Mearns
Jesus like others have
died, and came back to life, and they report there is a life after death.
There is no objective evidence that this happened. There are only
stories.
So till then we will either accept their word or reject it, in the end we
will know. Till then, I would think the word of them that went on, and came
back would hold more truth, then just what we think about it.
No, stories mean nothing without evidence. You have faith that they
are true. You have no evidence.
And yes, I agree with your statement that something can not be shown
to exist until it actually exists, which is the reason that most
atheists are atheist. GodŽ can not be shown to exist.
Sure He can, I was like the atheist for near 20 years, till one day I hear
the Bible and the God of the Bible,
You have a talking Bible? That's passing strange.
The Bibles I have don't talk to me. I actually need to read them.
His Spirit reached out and touched me,
and it was real, I knew then, I was wrong and I was in the presents of a
power that I never knew before, and that had to power to give or take life.
Oh yes God existence is proven,
No, it is not objectively proven. All you have is an ootsie feeling.
by the life's God has touched, and who have
changed from evil to good. God is not hid, His presents is strong where
people who love Him are, like family, the members know each other a stranger
is known not to be part of that group. So the outsider only looks on, and
denies what they have not touched or seen personally. Then I sure this is
way over your understanding and what you been told.
I think you are insane.
Maybe I could of used another metaphor,
I really don't care about metaphors. Try offering some objective
evidence instead.
I did, and you rejected it, so was hoping you could offer a objective reply,
instead of just rejecting what you do not understand.
You have offered no objective evidence. Please do not pretend that
you have. If you persist in saying that you have offered such, then
you will be a deliberate liar.
I sure you could help me
out, and find something that would say what I wanted to say, and which
doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them
that
know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Visual verification is not necessary for evidence. Any objective
I like that, a clarification that doesn't deny such, and show to many it
Does present the evidence, only "not necessary" just doesn't cut the butter.
You are babbling again.
method of determining the existence of GodŽ would be appropriate.
Then to one what is objective is not objective to another, still bring it
back to what you want to accept and the rest has to be wrong.
Objective is the same to every person. Objective means "that which
has independent existence or authority, apart from our experience or
thought," (dictionary.com) and that is the problem for believers.
They can not demonstrate that their deity exists independently of the
minds of those who believe that it exists. Their deity is
indistinguishable from their imaginations.
Evidence for the existence of air includes the ability to measure its
pressure, temperature, and its chemical constituents. Wind, which is
moving air, can be measured for velocity and direction.
Healings, and change life's are also measurable,
However, you can not demonstrate GodŽ's hand in any healings or life
changes. You merely assume that GodŽ is responsible. Do you find it
amazing that Christians can not show any greater rate of healing than
those of other religions or those who have no belief at all (given the
same access to good health care)?
as well as answer to
prayer, when such prayers could not have happen, unless someone was able to
hear them and act on them, to do what mankind could not do. That is why the
bible says with man things are impossible but with God nothing is
impossible.
Nothing impossible ever happens no matter how hard you pray. Yes,
I've heard that GodŽ *always answers prayers, but only if you count
"no" and "wait" as answers. Prayers *seem like they are answered
because most believers only count the successes and ignore the
failures. Try praying that there will be no more deaths in Iraq
attributable to the conflict. That would be very helpful and most
welcome for the families of the servicemen and the citizens of Iraq.
See if your prayer is answered.
I have seen the results of prayer in the lives of hundreds of
people I know personally. The Bible says God is like the wind, cannot be
seen, only the results can be known.
You believe. You do not know. There is a difference.
GodŽ can't be measured or even detected. Subjective ootsie feelings
do not count as evidence.
Why the can't?
Because feelings are not objective. They are as I noted above
"subjective".
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=subjective
subˇjecˇtive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sb-jktv)
adj.
1. a. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than
the external world: a subjective decision.
b. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.
2. Moodily introspective.
3. Existing only in the mind; illusory.
4. Psychology. Existing only within the experiencer's mind.
Sure God can be detected, known and measured because of what
God does do for His people. Then that has nothing to do with ootsie
feelings, then when a cold or warm wind is near, one does measure such by
that "ootsie" feeling. even you know that.
No, one uses a thermometer not feelings. Any person can use a
thermometer and determine the temperature of the air -- the same
temperature even though to one person it might seem cold and to
another warm. One need not rely upon subjective impressions.
I will unlink this from here, only wanted to give you a reply, as you took
the time to write.
Yet, you leave without having provided any evidence. Oh well, unlink
away.
Liz #658 BAAWA
"Spiritually alive" apparently means that you are confusing your
internal mental constructs with actually existing things. Hans-Richard Gruemm
.
|
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
22 Apr 2004 06:59:13 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:45:42 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com>, Message
ID: <bujc80duce5o83sc6hbshed8u6vcoqvnhj@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 09:03:38 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<40847bbb_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:n1m88091pmfpr5s92o7pis2t93jf6jpo47@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<4083eeca$2_2@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also.
Yes, nonexistent air is just as nonexistent as nonexistent gods.
However, we can demonstrate, here and now, on this very planet, that
air exists. The same can not be demonstrated for GodŽ.
I would agree with your statements above, about nonexistent anything, then
God is, and so there is nothing nonexistent about God.
Except that GodŽ can not be detected by any objective means.
One can also prove here and now, that in a vacuum there is no air. Going
down into the earth, the deeper one goes the Air ends. To the vacuum there
is no air, where it seems some keep their mind, so they will not have to
deal with the Air or the Spirit of things they do not understand.
You are babbling.
Then this is about things
now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist until
it
does.
Are you saying that HellŽ doesn't exist until you die? Are not heaven
and hell supposed to be eternal?
I not saying any such thing, I not looking forward to finding if it is now
or later. There are things that will never be know for sure, till the
matter is met.
If something is nonexistent, then the "matter" will never be met no
matter how long you wait.
Death has shown the body is dead, what happen to the soul or
that essence of the person, is in question by some.
But not to everyone. There is no objective evidence for a soul just
as there is no objective evidence for gods. To wonder where something
has gone that had no evidence for existence in the first place seem a
rather ineffective pursuit.
As I was walking up the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish, I wish he'd stay away
Hughes Mearns
Jesus like others have
died, and came back to life, and they report there is a life after death.
There is no objective evidence that this happened. There are only
stories.
So till then we will either accept their word or reject it, in the end we
will know. Till then, I would think the word of them that went on, and came
back would hold more truth, then just what we think about it.
No, stories mean nothing without evidence. You have faith that they
are true. You have no evidence.
And yes, I agree with your statement that something can not be shown
to exist until it actually exists, which is the reason that most
atheists are atheist. GodŽ can not be shown to exist.
Sure He can, I was like the atheist for near 20 years, till one day I hear
the Bible and the God of the Bible,
You have a talking Bible? That's passing strange.
The Bibles I have don't talk to me. I actually need to read them.
His Spirit reached out and touched me,
and it was real, I knew then, I was wrong and I was in the presents of a
power that I never knew before, and that had to power to give or take life.
Oh yes God existence is proven,
No, it is not objectively proven. All you have is an ootsie feeling.
by the life's God has touched, and who have
changed from evil to good. God is not hid, His presents is strong where
people who love Him are, like family, the members know each other a stranger
is known not to be part of that group. So the outsider only looks on, and
denies what they have not touched or seen personally. Then I sure this is
way over your understanding and what you been told.
I think you are insane.
Certifiably, in a civilized society.
Maybe I could of used another metaphor,
I really don't care about metaphors. Try offering some objective
evidence instead.
I did, and you rejected it, so was hoping you could offer a objective reply,
instead of just rejecting what you do not understand.
You have offered no objective evidence. Please do not pretend that
you have. If you persist in saying that you have offered such, then
you will be a deliberate liar.
Such is the only talent Raymond has.
I sure you could help me
out, and find something that would say what I wanted to say, and which
doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them
that
know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Visual verification is not necessary for evidence. Any objective
I like that, a clarification that doesn't deny such, and show to many it
Does present the evidence, only "not necessary" just doesn't cut the butter.
You are babbling again.
*Still.*
(snip)
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 07:31:49 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 23:08:36 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be with
him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He said, "And
if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to
enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be
thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not
quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear that sinners end up in a
horrible place, but there is more than one "hell". Hell is used to
translate three different Greek words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person doesn't
believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about things
now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist until it
does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure you could help me
out, and find something that would say what I wanted to say, and which
doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them that
know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Next time you feel God, spray some perfume or cologne on it. Maybe
then others will at least smell it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Liz, you like most people do not want to have faith in
things which have no basis in reality. -- josalt
drift
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 12:49:16 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Raymond:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not
die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear
that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more than
one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist
until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure you
could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted to
say, and which doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but
felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Which sense do you use?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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| User: "Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 07:32:11 PM |
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"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:94D065F8Evicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Raymond:
Not really as it was linked to your group, not writen in it.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist
until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure you
could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted to
say, and which doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but
felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Which sense do you use?
As in a general conscious awareness?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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| User: "Vic Sagerquist" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 11:33:14 PM |
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One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Raymond:
"Vic Sagerquist" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:94D065F8Evicman@127.0.0.1...
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Raymond:
Not really as it was linked to your group, not writen in it.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is
about things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be
shown to exist until it does. Maybe I could of used another
metaphor, I sure you could help me out, and find something that
would say what I wanted to say, and which doesn't have prove it
exist. Wind can not be seen, but felt, to them that know God, God
can be felt, even if not seen.
Which sense do you use?
As in a general conscious awareness?
As in touch, sight, hearing, taste or smell. You said this god could be
felt. With what?
--
Vic Sagerquist
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
______________
Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day.
Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
--Timothy Jones
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
22 Apr 2004 06:55:53 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:49:16 -0500, (Vic
Sagerquist), Message ID: <94D065F8Evicman@127.0.0.1> wrote in
alt.atheism;
One day in alt.atheism, Also Sprach Raymond:
"Liz" <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:tmc780pcibrv7d7kia9f8tf7lqt18fv71v@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com> in news message
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not
die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear
that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more than
one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person
doesn't believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
The difference, of course, being that air can be shown to exist.
It can be seen when it is gone not to exist also. Then this is about
things now, and Hell and such is future, which can not be shown to exist
until it does. Maybe I could of used another metaphor, I sure you
could help me out, and find something that would say what I wanted to
say, and which doesn't have prove it exist. Wind can not be seen, but
felt, to them that know God, God can be felt, even if not seen.
Which sense do you use?
Non.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
21 Apr 2004 11:25:09 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:08:10 +0800, "Raymond"
<NOSPAM-rwknapp@hotmail.com>, Message ID:
<408350d9$2_1@rain.i-cable.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be with
him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He said, "And
if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to
enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be
thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not
quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear that sinners end up in a
horrible place, but there is more than one "hell". Hell is used to
translate three different Greek words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same. Just because a person doesn't
believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
Too bad the only air (jesus) you've got is terminal and incurable
flatulence, oh Raymond Daemonspawn, you follow your father Satan well.
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
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| User: "Pangur Ban" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 07:23:42 AM |
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Raymond wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not
die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear
that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more than
one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same.
What? I will go to a place in which you believe and I don't? How silly.
Just because a person doesn't
believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
If you are saying we will all die, I agree. If you are trying to tell
me what will happen after death, I don't agree. You don't know what
happens after death....you only believe you know. My beliefs are just
as valid as yours.
Pang
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| User: "Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: A proof that all non-believers probably will go to hell |
19 Apr 2004 10:19:12 AM |
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"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:ixPgc.2100$um3.56288@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Raymond wrote:
"Pangur Ban" <Pangur-Ban@SatisHouse.org> wrote in message
news:dnHgc.51075$K_.1161965@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Lisa Horton wrote:
http://www.rodsgarden.50megs.com/wheredie.htm
Jesus clearly teaches that after believers die, they go to be
with him. He also is clear on what happens to non-believers. He
said, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is
better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to
have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where 'their worm does not
die, and the fire is not quenched'." (Mark 9:47-48). It is clear
that sinners end up in a horrible place, but there is more than
one "hell". Hell is used to translate three different Greek
words: Gehenna, Hades, and Tartaros.
And if one doesn't believe in your Jesus, god, or hell?
Doesn't matter the end will be the same.
What? I will go to a place in which you believe and I don't? How silly.
Not really, if you walk off the end of a tall building you would go to a
place you may not believe, just because of your actions. I may not believe
in New York and refuse to accept such a place, and ride with someone into
that city, would it matter if I believe in it or not, I would end up there
in New York. Believe has nothing to do with it. Since you do not believe
in God, that doesn't nullify God, or change what God said will come to pass.
I give you the IF it happens it will happen no matter what you or I believe.
The Sun shines with or without our belief in it. The stars are in the sky
and our believing in them or not really doesn't matter.
Just because a person doesn't
believe in AIR when it is removed the end is the same.
If you are saying we will all die, I agree. If you are trying to tell
me what will happen after death, I don't agree. You don't know what
happens after death....you only believe you know. My beliefs are just
as valid as yours.
Like I said after death will do what it does, no matter what you or I
believe, it is not balance on us, it doesn't matter what we want, death will
come, and what happens after will happen, valid or not, it is not our
choice, we have what the Bible says and we that believe, believe it, and
believe that will come to pass, you unbelief has absolutely nothing to do
with what will be, a rock tossed off a building will hit something and stop,
be it cement, ground, rock it is just a fact. I don't need to argue with
you, and I am sorry someone linked this to your newsgroup. After you read
this, do not reply just unlink it, I am linked as to give you a reply as you
spent the time to post this to me. Thank you.
Pang
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