| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
16 Nov 2003 07:17:50 AM |
| Object: |
A QUESTION |
I received this question in email this morning
Anyone want to thry theor hand at answering it?
**********************************
Jim:
I also believe in separation between church an state. I simply do not
see how the integration of religion into government can accommodate the
diversity of belief in our nation. Having been raised in Utah and studying
Mormonism's theocratic history I've developed a deep appreciation for the
Constitution and the first Amendment. Mormonism currently has what is
called a "Strengthening the Church Membership Committee" which attempts to
control what is written about the LDS church by scrutinizing articles and
books written by Mormon Scholars and then threatening them with
excommunication if the publication is not with the churches teachings. This
concept is also written in Mormon scripture.
Your Web site which I'm enjoying states that Separationists hold that
the original Constitution grants no power, either positive or negative, to
the federal government over religion. My question is if you might have the
time to answer, what provision is made to confront religion when its goes
astray? i.e. Some provision had to allow for The Utah Expedition of 1857,
marching Johnston's army of 1000 troops against the Mormon Theocracy,
President Buchanan replacing Utah's Territorial governor, and Congress
passing of the Edmunds Tucker Act of 1887 allowing Federal seizures of
Mormon church property. The Branch Davidians also comes to mind.
I commend you Tom and Susan for your attempting to present both sides
of the debate, it is very informative.
Brad B.
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: A QUESTION |
16 Nov 2003 07:59:07 AM |
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<buckeye-ELO@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:m7uerv8ll2vf7et1u4e4np34iaekvt8f28@4ax.com...
I received this question in email this morning
Anyone want to thry theor hand at answering it?
**********************************
Jim:
I also believe in separation between church an state. I simply do not
see how the integration of religion into government can accommodate the
diversity of belief in our nation. Having been raised in Utah and studying
Mormonism's theocratic history I've developed a deep appreciation for the
Constitution and the first Amendment. Mormonism currently has what is
called a "Strengthening the Church Membership Committee" which attempts to
control what is written about the LDS church by scrutinizing articles and
books written by Mormon Scholars and then threatening them with
excommunication if the publication is not with the churches teachings.
This
concept is also written in Mormon scripture.
Your Web site which I'm enjoying states that Separationists hold that
the original Constitution grants no power, either positive or negative, to
the federal government over religion. My question is if you might have the
time to answer, what provision is made to confront religion when its goes
astray? i.e. Some provision had to allow for The Utah Expedition of 1857,
marching Johnston's army of 1000 troops against the Mormon Theocracy,
President Buchanan replacing Utah's Territorial governor, and Congress
passing of the Edmunds Tucker Act of 1887 allowing Federal seizures of
Mormon church property. The Branch Davidians also comes to mind.
How does the Constitution protect territories differently than states? There
are references to states, but I didn't see anything about territories. Is
"The United States" consist solely of the states?
As for seizing property, these days it could be done in the same way the
government seizes the property of any organization. As long as it isn't
treated, positively or negatively, special, I don't think there's a problem.
In 1887, Mormon's didn't have much power of influence, so I doubt that there
would be much of an objection to seizing their property. It was probably
quite popular, as the Mormons, as seen by their repeated moves, weren't.
I commend you Tom and Susan for your attempting to present both sides
of the debate, it is very informative.
Brad B.
.
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| User: "disciple" |
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| Title: Re: A QUESTION |
22 Nov 2003 10:17:09 PM |
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I also believe in the separation of church and state, however, the reality
of the situation is different from what is on the books. The Roman catholic
church has infiltrated the government, the judicial system, news media, and
police with catholic spies (that may pretend to be protestant or some other
religion) that take orders from the catholic priesthood. The catholic
priesthood takes orders from one man, the jesuit general.
I suspect the vatican has control over the executive and judicial branches
of the American Government.
If you know anything about the history of catholic inquisitions against
other religions, then you should consider this bad news, in the extreme.
buckeye-ELO@nospam.net wrote in message ...
I received this question in email this morning
Anyone want to thry theor hand at answering it?
**********************************
Jim:
I also believe in separation between church an state. I simply do not
see how the integration of religion into government can accommodate the
diversity of belief in our nation. Having been raised in Utah and studying
Mormonism's theocratic history I've developed a deep appreciation for the
Constitution and the first Amendment. Mormonism currently has what is
called a "Strengthening the Church Membership Committee" which attempts to
control what is written about the LDS church by scrutinizing articles and
books written by Mormon Scholars and then threatening them with
excommunication if the publication is not with the churches teachings. This
concept is also written in Mormon scripture.
Your Web site which I'm enjoying states that Separationists hold that
the original Constitution grants no power, either positive or negative, to
the federal government over religion. My question is if you might have the
time to answer, what provision is made to confront religion when its goes
astray? i.e. Some provision had to allow for The Utah Expedition of 1857,
marching Johnston's army of 1000 troops against the Mormon Theocracy,
President Buchanan replacing Utah's Territorial governor, and Congress
passing of the Edmunds Tucker Act of 1887 allowing Federal seizures of
Mormon church property. The Branch Davidians also comes to mind.
I commend you Tom and Susan for your attempting to present both sides
of the debate, it is very informative.
Brad B.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: A QUESTION |
23 Nov 2003 01:52:55 AM |
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On 23 Nov 2003 04:17:09 GMT, "disciple" <sagacity1@fastmail.fm> posted
in alt.atheism:
I also believe in the separation of church and state, however, the reality
of the situation is different from what is on the books. The Roman catholic
church has infiltrated the government, the judicial system, news media, and
police with catholic spies (that may pretend to be protestant or some other
religion) that take orders from the catholic priesthood. The catholic
priesthood takes orders from one man, the jesuit general.
I suspect the vatican has control over the executive and judicial branches
of the American Government.
You forget that the current government is fundamentalist Protestant.
--
"If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can
solve them."
-Isaac Asimov
&
There are three kinds of men:
The ones that learn by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence.
- (Will Rogers)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
|
| Title: Re: A QUESTION |
22 Nov 2003 11:33:48 PM |
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On 23 Nov 2003, disciple wrote:
I also believe in the separation of church and state, however, the reality
of the situation is different from what is on the books. The Roman catholic
church has infiltrated the government, the judicial system, news media, and
police with catholic spies (that may pretend to be protestant or some other
religion) that take orders from the catholic priesthood. The catholic
priesthood takes orders from one man, the jesuit general.
I suspect the vatican has control over the executive and judicial branches
of the American Government.
If you know anything about the history of catholic inquisitions against
other religions, then you should consider this bad news, in the extreme.
If you aren't already worried enough,
Check out the work of Stephen Mumford.
.
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| User: "zepp" |
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| Title: Re: A QUESTION |
16 Nov 2003 02:05:09 PM |
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On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:17:50 -0500, wrote:
I received this question in email this morning
Anyone want to thry theor hand at answering it?
**********************************
Jim:
I also believe in separation between church an state. I simply do not
see how the integration of religion into government can accommodate the
diversity of belief in our nation. Having been raised in Utah and studying
Mormonism's theocratic history I've developed a deep appreciation for the
Constitution and the first Amendment. Mormonism currently has what is
called a "Strengthening the Church Membership Committee" which attempts to
control what is written about the LDS church by scrutinizing articles and
books written by Mormon Scholars and then threatening them with
excommunication if the publication is not with the churches teachings. This
concept is also written in Mormon scripture.
Your Web site which I'm enjoying states that Separationists hold that
the original Constitution grants no power, either positive or negative, to
the federal government over religion. My question is if you might have the
time to answer, what provision is made to confront religion when its goes
astray? i.e. Some provision had to allow for The Utah Expedition of 1857,
marching Johnston's army of 1000 troops against the Mormon Theocracy,
President Buchanan replacing Utah's Territorial governor, and Congress
passing of the Edmunds Tucker Act of 1887 allowing Federal seizures of
Mormon church property. The Branch Davidians also comes to mind.
I commend you Tom and Susan for your attempting to present both sides
of the debate, it is very informative.
The Constitution guaranttees to all states a republican form of
government, and Article Four Section Two guarantees to all states the
same priviledges and immunities of all the other states.
In other words, no state can nullify the rights established in the
constitution, including those not specifically listed.
The Mormon Church can tell it's members what they can write about it,
but they can't compell anyone to be a member against their will, and
neither can they dictate what non-members write.
Brad B.
-
"...too many whites are getting away with drug use."
-- Rush Limbaugh, on his short lived TV show
October 5, 1995
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
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