| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Lost Planet Airman" |
| Date: |
25 Feb 2006 12:01:35 AM |
| Object: |
A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
This is a question about the nature of Fairness, not whether or not
their is a God. I just thought I would make that obvious before budikka
started slinging strings of obscenities at me.
If there was a God, and this God Desired for all humans to have free
will, and created a system for them to exist in:
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar to a
random number generator in a computer.
It seems that the most fair system would be one in which an individual
was blessed seemingly at random, another had something horrible at random.
Isn't randomness, Great events, or apparently horrible events, under the
laws of nature fair?
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 06:19:42 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 00:01:35 -0600 in alt.atheism, Lost Planet Airman
(Lost Planet Airman <knightrd@comcast.net>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism
This is a question about the nature of Fairness, not whether or not
their is a God. I just thought I would make that obvious before budikka
started slinging strings of obscenities at me.
"*****, bollocks, wank, toss, nice".
Go on, ask me....
If there was a God, and this God Desired for all humans to have free
will, and created a system for them to exist in:
Ah! One of my old theories... the point being that our Omniscient God
knows all that can be known, so He creates a universe where some
things *cannot* in principle be known, so He has some new programming
to watch to pass eternity or whatever. oh, and the real outré theory,
which in due course will found me a religion, is that this grants our
hypothetical God free will, which IMO an omniscient being cannot in
principle posses.
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar to a
random number generator in a computer.
It seems that the most fair system would be one in which an individual
was blessed seemingly at random, another had something horrible at random.
Isn't randomness, Great events, or apparently horrible events, under the
laws of nature fair?
Well... the random number generator would certainly explain why bad
things happen to good people and why in some - maybe most - instances
evil people prosper.
But that said, I don't think you could call such a system "fair" in a
much as IMO the idea of "fairness" implies at least some degree of
causality and individual balance.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. www.video2cd.co.uk. Your 8mm films on DVD.
Help An Imaginary Being Today. Visit www.saecb.com .
.
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| User: "Denis Loubet" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 01:36:39 AM |
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"Lost Planet Airman" <knightrd@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1I2dnQDDCd9db2LenZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
This is a question about the nature of Fairness, not whether or not their
is a God. I just thought I would make that obvious before budikka started
slinging strings of obscenities at me.
If there was a God, and this God Desired for all humans to have free will,
and created a system for them to exist in:
Can you describe the method by which this free will you mention works?
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar to a
random number generator in a computer.
No. That would simply be random. Random isn't fair. Random doesn't care
about fairness.
Fairness includes things like being rewarded for good deeds. But in a random
world, that wouldn't happen.
It seems that the most fair system would be one in which an individual was
blessed seemingly at random, another had something horrible at random.
Why? Wouldn't it be better if only randomly good things happened to people?
Why include randomly bad things at all? And why make it random?
If you have an omnipotent and omniscient god, then everyone's life could
read like a rags to riches story.
Isn't randomness, Great events, or apparently horrible events, under the
laws of nature fair?
No. Why would they be? They're not fair, they simply are.
--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@io.com
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com
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| User: "HotelCharlieOne" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 07:36:22 AM |
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"Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote in
news:idWdnT2d8JealJ3ZRVn-rA@io.com:
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar
to a random number generator in a computer.
No. That would simply be random. Random isn't fair. Random doesn't
care about fairness.
Fairness includes things like being rewarded for good deeds. But in
a random world, that wouldn't happen.
And additionally, once you impose laws you inpose order. Randomness
disappears. If your ideas is to make toatlly random laws (i.e you can
rape you mother-in-law on the 2nd Tuesday but you can't pick your nose
with your index finger) you will end up with a totally dysfunctional
society, (but it might make a greeat reality show!)
--
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered.
Religion is answers that may never be questioned."
Anon.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 01:04:20 PM |
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Denis Loubet wrote:
"Lost Planet Airman" <knightrd@comcast.net> wrote in message
<snip>
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar to a
random number generator in a computer.
No. That would simply be random. Random isn't fair. Random doesn't care
about fairness.
Fairness includes things like being rewarded for good deeds. But in a random
world, that wouldn't happen.
I believe what he means by 'fairness' is 'neutrality', in this case,
taken so far as to mean utter indifference. Which seems to me to be an
excuse to believe in the fairness of a creator god (And thus in the
creator god itself; Who would want to believe in what they perceive as
an evil deity?) in what is clearly an uncaring universe.
<snip>
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 08:15:34 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:36:39 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com> wrote:
If there was a God, and this God Desired for all humans to have free will,
and created a system for them to exist in:
Can you describe the method by which this free will you mention works?
??? It called "making a choice", loubert.
If you want to take your own life, God doesn't interfere. If you want to do
mankind's highest calling and give your life for another man, God doesn't
interfere. God will address you after you die.
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar to a
random number generator in a computer.
No. That would simply be random. Random isn't fair. Random doesn't care
about fairness.
For once I agree with you.
Fairness includes things like being rewarded for good deeds. But in a random
world, that wouldn't happen.
No, that's not choice. Fairness is choice given, not choice received, and hence
comes from the soul. It's a choice on the part of the giver, and is given by to
him by God.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 12:28:45 PM |
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on 25 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 01:36:39 -0600, "Denis Loubet" <dloubet@io.com>
wrote:
If there was a God, and this God Desired for all humans to have
free will, and created a system for them to exist in:
Can you describe the method by which this free will you mention
works?
??? It called "making a choice", loubert.
Divine omniscience makes choice impossible. One or the other, puke,
you can't have both.
If you want to take your own life, God doesn't interfere. If you
want to do mankind's highest calling and give your life for another
man, God doesn't interfere.
Then your suicide was a part of his divine plan. Unless you're willing
to admit there is no divine plan.
God will address you after you die.
If there is a divine plan, the omniscient god knew the result of your
life billions of years before you were ever born. What is the purpose
of the divine interview? Harassment?
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 01:55:45 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:28:45 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Can you describe the method by which this free will you mention
works?
??? It called "making a choice", loubert.
Divine omniscience makes choice impossible. One or the other, puke,
you can't have both.
Main Entry:om£ni£scient
Pronunciation:-sh*nt
Function:adjective
Etymology:New Latin omniscient-, omnisciens, back-formation from Medieval Latin
omniscientia
Date:circa 1604
1 : having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight
2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge
God knows our final choices, and every choice before then. God does not
interfere with those choices. That's the difference.
It's impossible for man to do other than what he did. God knowing does not
impact that final decision on our part. So let's avoid the silliness that we
can do different than God knowing what we did.
If you want to take your own life, God doesn't interfere. If you
want to do mankind's highest calling and give your life for another
man, God doesn't interfere.
Then your suicide was a part of his divine plan. Unless you're willing
to admit there is no divine plan.
Nope. It's your own final choice.
There is no divine plan for man's future actions. Man has free will. A divine
plan is an atheist's weird misunderstandings about God.
God will address you after you die.
If there is a divine plan, the omniscient god knew the result of your
life billions of years before you were ever born. What is the purpose
of the divine interview? Harassment?
No divine plan. Where did that wacko idea of a divine plan come from?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 02:47:48 PM |
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:55:45 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:28:45 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Can you describe the method by which this free will you mention
works?
??? It called "making a choice", loubert.
Divine omniscience makes choice impossible. One or the other, puke,
you can't have both.
Main Entry:om£ni£scient
Pronunciation:-sh*nt
Function:adjective
Etymology:New Latin omniscient-, omnisciens, back-formation from Medieval Latin
omniscientia
Date:circa 1604
1 : having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight
2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge
God knows our final choices, and every choice before then. God does not
interfere with those choices. That's the difference.
It's impossible for man to do other than what he did. God knowing does not
impact that final decision on our part. So let's avoid the silliness that we
can do different than God knowing what we did.
If you want to take your own life, God doesn't interfere. If you
want to do mankind's highest calling and give your life for another
man, God doesn't interfere.
Then your suicide was a part of his divine plan. Unless you're willing
to admit there is no divine plan.
Nope. It's your own final choice.
There is no divine plan for man's future actions. Man has free will. A divine
plan is an atheist's weird misunderstandings about God.
God will address you after you die.
If there is a divine plan, the omniscient god knew the result of your
life billions of years before you were ever born. What is the purpose
of the divine interview? Harassment?
No divine plan. Where did that wacko idea of a divine plan come from?
From above viz:
God knows our final choices, and every choice before then.
It's impossible for man to do other than what he did.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 08:18:12 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:47:48 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:55:45 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:28:45 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Can you describe the method by which this free will you mention
works?
??? It called "making a choice", loubert.
Divine omniscience makes choice impossible. One or the other, puke,
you can't have both.
Main Entry:om£ni£scient
Pronunciation:-sh*nt
Function:adjective
Etymology:New Latin omniscient-, omnisciens, back-formation from Medieval Latin
omniscientia
Date:circa 1604
1 : having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight
2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge
God knows our final choices, and every choice before then. God does not
interfere with those choices. That's the difference.
It's impossible for man to do other than what he did. God knowing does not
impact that final decision on our part. So let's avoid the silliness that we
can do different than God knowing what we did.
If you want to take your own life, God doesn't interfere. If you
want to do mankind's highest calling and give your life for another
man, God doesn't interfere.
Then your suicide was a part of his divine plan. Unless you're willing
to admit there is no divine plan.
Nope. It's your own final choice.
There is no divine plan for man's future actions. Man has free will. A divine
plan is an atheist's weird misunderstandings about God.
God will address you after you die.
If there is a divine plan, the omniscient god knew the result of your
life billions of years before you were ever born. What is the purpose
of the divine interview? Harassment?
No divine plan. Where did that wacko idea of a divine plan come from?
From above viz:
Say what?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 08:56:41 AM |
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:18:12 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 20:47:48 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:55:45 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:28:45 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Can you describe the method by which this free will you mention
works?
??? It called "making a choice", loubert.
Divine omniscience makes choice impossible. One or the other, puke,
you can't have both.
Main Entry:om£ni£scient
Pronunciation:-sh*nt
Function:adjective
Etymology:New Latin omniscient-, omnisciens, back-formation from Medieval Latin
omniscientia
Date:circa 1604
1 : having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight
2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge
God knows our final choices, and every choice before then. God does not
interfere with those choices. That's the difference.
It's impossible for man to do other than what he did. God knowing does not
impact that final decision on our part. So let's avoid the silliness that we
can do different than God knowing what we did.
If you want to take your own life, God doesn't interfere. If you
want to do mankind's highest calling and give your life for another
man, God doesn't interfere.
Then your suicide was a part of his divine plan. Unless you're willing
to admit there is no divine plan.
Nope. It's your own final choice.
There is no divine plan for man's future actions. Man has free will. A divine
plan is an atheist's weird misunderstandings about God.
God will address you after you die.
If there is a divine plan, the omniscient god knew the result of your
life billions of years before you were ever born. What is the purpose
of the divine interview? Harassment?
No divine plan. Where did that wacko idea of a divine plan come from?
From above viz:
Say what?
"What?"
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
27 Feb 2006 02:16:40 AM |
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["Followup-To:" header set to alt.atheism.]
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:55:45 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> spewed
forth this unto the Network:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 12:28:45 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
Can you describe the method by which this free will you mention
works?
??? It called "making a choice", loubert.
Divine omniscience makes choice impossible. One or the other, puke,
you can't have both.
Main Entry:om£ni£scient
Pronunciation:-sh*nt
Function:adjective
Etymology:New Latin omniscient-, omnisciens, back-formation from Medieval Latin
omniscientia
Date:circa 1604
1 : having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight
2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge
God knows our final choices, and every choice before then. God does not
interfere with those choices. That's the difference.
It's impossible for man to do other than what he did. God knowing does not
impact that final decision on our part. So let's avoid the silliness that we
can do different than God knowing what we did.
There is no divine plan for man's future actions. Man has free will. A divine
plan is an atheist's weird misunderstandings about God.
And yet, if God exists and is omniscient, then he knew all of humankind's
future actions before he created them. Therefore, humans didn't really
have any choice to begin with. God has aleady decided for us everything
that we're going to do up to the day we die.
Either this is true, or God isn't really omniscient.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 02:57:14 PM |
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on 25 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
It's impossible for man to do other than what he did. God knowing
does not impact that final decision on our part. So let's avoid the
silliness that we can do different than God knowing what we did.
God knowing all (omniscience) past, present and FUTURE. You don't even
understand your own silly religion.
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 08:25:26 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 14:57:14 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
on 25 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
It's impossible for man to do other than what he did. God knowing
does not impact that final decision on our part. So let's avoid the
silliness that we can do different than God knowing what we did.
God knowing all (omniscience) past, present and FUTURE. You don't even
understand your own silly religion.
Actually, I'M the one, and not you, that does understand. God knowing all
"future" and "free will" are mutually exclusive if God controls.
Your concept is that "God knows thru control". That is the opposite of
Christianity. God knows my final status, but I don't. I am constantly faced
with free choice to continue to seek God's love or to reject his love.
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 09:09:50 AM |
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:25:26 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Does that make you jealous?
I guess that needs spelling out for Duke
He effectvely said:
God offers love to atheist but they reject it
Christer on the other hand don't get offered love but
have to search for it.
Presumably they have not found it yet.
Would you like me to a commend you Duke next time
I get the offer?
duke, American-American
from Peru-Peru
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect way to waste an hour"
Pope Paul VI aught to have said
*****
.
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| User: "Lost Planet Airman" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 09:11:19 PM |
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Les Hellawell wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:25:26 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Does that make you jealous?
I guess that needs spelling out for Duke
He effectvely said:
God offers love to atheist but they reject it
Christer on the other hand don't get offered love but
have to search for it.
He did not state that they do not get offered his love.
You can search for something that is offered to you.
People search for love all the time, when it is quite possibly right in
front of their face.
Presumably they have not found it yet.
Would you like me to a commend you Duke next time
I get the offer?
duke, American-American
from Peru-Peru
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect way to waste an hour"
Pope Paul VI aught to have said
*****
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 05:37:02 PM |
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:09:50 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Does that make you jealous?
I guess that needs spelling out for Duke
Not a chance.
He effectvely said:
God offers love to atheist but they reject it
ABSOLUTELY. God offers his unconditional love to all without question. the
Christian accepts it and the atheist rejects it.
Christer on the other hand don't get offered love but
have to search for it.
Nope - God finds us - we don't find him. We can say yes to him or no to him.
Our free choice. If you are an atheist, it's your decision to turn your back on
God's love he offers to you unconditionally.
Presumably they have not found it yet.
Would you like me to a commend you Duke next time
I get the offer?
You get his unconditional offer of love every day.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
27 Feb 2006 04:51:55 AM |
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:37:02 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:09:50 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Does that make you jealous?
I guess that needs spelling out for Duke
Not a chance.
He effectvely said:
God offers love to atheist but they reject it
ABSOLUTELY. God offers his unconditional love to all without question. the
Christian accepts it and the atheist rejects it.
Not received this offer yet.
Christer on the other hand don't get offered love but
have to search for it.
Nope - God finds us - we don't find him.
Yes but does it offer love? For all I know it might be finding
you and kicking you in your nether regions. Obviously
it is not offering love hence your need to find it
We can say yes to him or no to him.
Our free choice. If you are an atheist, it's your decision to turn your back on
God's love he offers to you unconditionally.
I will make that decision when the offer is made.
Presumably they have not found it yet.
Would you like me to a commend you Duke next time
I get the offer?
You get his unconditional offer of love every day.
How do you know this? You are somewhere in the Americas
I am in good 'ol England far away right a blessed plot right
in 'God's own county" so we are told but I have never got this
supposed communication, not even a hint of what which is
hardly suprising as according to you we cannot even answer
since we cannot
In any case according to you
We knowingly lack sufficient faculties to respond to, or relate to, a
higher level above man.
Which means I cannot hear or understand the offer ('relate to') or
reply since "we lack sufficient faculties to respond".
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 11:20:31 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Nope - God finds us - we don't find him.
Still waiting....
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
.
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
02 Mar 2006 08:40:28 PM |
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in article ule40290cbifuolcvr0f2egmfq6c96s8pc@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 2/26/06 6:37 PM:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:09:50 +0000, Les Hellawell
<myshredder@leswell.freeuk.com> wrote:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Does that make you jealous?
I guess that needs spelling out for Duke
Not a chance.
He effectvely said:
God offers love to atheist but they reject it
ABSOLUTELY. God offers his unconditional love to all without question. the
Christian accepts it and the atheist rejects it.
Christer on the other hand don't get offered love but
have to search for it.
Nope - God finds us - we don't find him. We can say yes to him or no to him.
Our free choice. If you are an atheist, it's your decision to turn your back
on
God's love he offers to you unconditionally.
Presumably they have not found it yet.
Would you like me to a commend you Duke next time
I get the offer?
You get his unconditional offer of love every day.
Useless as it may be...
Paul
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| User: "wildbluskies" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 08:50:07 AM |
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duke wrote:
Your concept is that "God knows thru control". That is the opposite of
Christianity. God knows my final status, but I don't. I am constantly faced
with free choice to continue to seek God's love or to reject his love.
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
that's nice but God really hates christians and atheists, they will all
burn in hell.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 09:32:37 AM |
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on 26 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Your god is nothing but an emotion you collectively misunderstand. You go
to church to learn how to misunderstand your own emotions. How fucked up
can you get?
--
Uncle Vic
aa#2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 05:38:49 PM |
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:32:37 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
on 26 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Your god is nothing but an emotion you collectively misunderstand.
But why would anyone believe you? You are the one committing spiritual
suicide, not me.
Christian: win/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into play if there
is no almighty God.
Read it and weep. You have up until the last breath you take on this planet to
change your mind. After that, no change of heart is possible.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 11:18:55 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:32:37 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
on 26 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Your god is nothing but an emotion you collectively misunderstand.
But why would anyone believe you? You are the one committing
spiritual suicide, not me.
Christian: win/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into
play if there is no almighty God.
Read it and weep. You have up until the last breath you take on this
planet to change your mind. After that, no change of heart is
possible.
Pascal's wager again. What a loon.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
26 Feb 2006 11:25:29 PM |
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Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:32:37 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
on 26 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Your god is nothing but an emotion you collectively misunderstand.
But why would anyone believe you? You are the one committing
spiritual suicide, not me.
Christian: win/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into
play if there is no almighty God.
Read it and weep. You have up until the last breath you take on this
planet to change your mind. After that, no change of heart is
possible.
Pascal's wager again. What a loon.
Duke's right on this one. "No change of heart" is indeed possible after
death because dead people can't make decisions. ;-)
However, saying that "Pascal's Wager" doesn't work on duke because he
doesn't believe that it is a logical fallacy. He believes the premise
to be "strong."
However, the problem comes in when you can substitute anything in place
of the "God" variable in the equation. Atheist: Win/No Win. Christian:
Lose/No Win. No win comes into play if there is no almighty Beldar
Conehead.
*shrugs*
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
27 Feb 2006 12:31:28 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet DanielSan (daniel-
san@myrealbox.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
Uncle Vic wrote:
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:32:37 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com>
wrote:
on 26 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Your god is nothing but an emotion you collectively misunderstand.
But why would anyone believe you? You are the one committing
spiritual suicide, not me.
Christian: win/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into
play if there is no almighty God.
Read it and weep. You have up until the last breath you take on this
planet to change your mind. After that, no change of heart is
possible.
Pascal's wager again. What a loon.
Duke's right on this one. "No change of heart" is indeed possible after
death because dead people can't make decisions. ;-)
However, saying that "Pascal's Wager" doesn't work on duke because he
doesn't believe that it is a logical fallacy. He believes the premise
to be "strong."
However, the problem comes in when you can substitute anything in place
of the "God" variable in the equation. Atheist: Win/No Win. Christian:
Lose/No Win. No win comes into play if there is no almighty Beldar
Conehead.
*shrugs*
Atheists get to live their lives in accordance with their own desires. I
call that a win, compared to the collossal waste of time being an active
Christian. Atheist: win. Christian: lose. No win never comes into play,
because there are no gods.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
27 Feb 2006 11:20:44 PM |
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["Followup-To:" header set to alt.atheism.]
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:38:49 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> spewed
forth this unto the Network:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:32:37 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
on 26 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Your god is nothing but an emotion you collectively misunderstand.
But why would anyone believe you? You are the one committing spiritual
suicide, not me.
How do you KNOW that? How do you know that, for example, Islam isn't the
One True Religion? If it is, then you're committing "spiritual suicide"
by worshipping Jesus and rejecting the teachings of the Koran.
What if Judaism is the One True Religion and Christianity is just a
tragic misunderstanding of Jesus? Now there are THREE ways to commit
spiritual suicide, and you have no way to know that any of the religions
are correct.
But wait! There's more! There are many Christian sects that believe that
their interpretation of the Bible is the only correct one, and that all
those who interpret it differently are going to Hell. So there isn't
only Christianity, there is Christianity[1] thru Christianity[n], "n"
being the number of Christian sects who believe that they are the only
"real" Christians. If you believe the wrong one, you are doomed, and
they might _all_ be the wrong one.
Because of how religious folk simply blindly accept their religions,
ANY "god" that I posit is just as likely to be the "one true God" as
YHWH. So how do you know that Kelvin isn't Lord? He won't conserve you
from Entropy if you follow Jesus. How do you know that "demons" aren't
really Body Thetans? If that is the case, then only the Church of
Scientology can teach you how to get rid of them-- Jesus might be
useless. How do you know that the Force isn't real? A hateful God
like YHWH might very well be a product of the Dark Side.
Pascal's Wager doesn't just have two choices (believe/not believe), it
has infinite choices (believe *what*?). If there even exists a true
religion, the probability of identifying it is 1 over infinity, which
equals zero.
Believer in the Supernatural: lose[0]/lose[1]/lose[2]/.../lose[inf]
Atheist: win (by not wasting the only life we get)
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| User: "Paul Duca" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
02 Mar 2006 08:40:49 PM |
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in article 6te40256lqpbp49gg1siruh7oo2j777i92@4ax.com, duke at
duckgumbo32@cox.net wrote on 2/26/06 6:38 PM:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:32:37 -0600, Uncle Vic <address@withheld.com> wrote:
on 26 Feb 2006 in alt.atheism, dear sweet duke (duckgumbo32@cox.net)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Christians seek his love and atheists reject his love.
Your god is nothing but an emotion you collectively misunderstand.
But why would anyone believe you? You are the one committing spiritual
suicide, not me.
Christian: win/no win. Atheist: lose/no win. No win comes into play if
there
is no almighty God.
Read it and weep. You have up until the last breath you take on this planet
to
change your mind. After that, no change of heart is possible.
And no reward, either...
Paul
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| User: "Lörd Ph’ltźr" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 03:10:40 AM |
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Lost Planet Airman <knightrd@comcast.net> had me ROTFL with:
news:1I2dnQDDCd9db2LenZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com:
This is a question about the nature of Fairness, not whether or not
their is a God. I just thought I would make that obvious before budikka
started slinging strings of obscenities at me.
If there was a God, and this God Desired for all humans to have free
will, and created a system for them to exist in:
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar to a
random number generator in a computer.
It seems that the most fair system would be one in which an individual
was blessed seemingly at random, another had something horrible at
random.
Isn't randomness, Great events, or apparently horrible events, under the
laws of nature fair?
Ph’ltźr hands the lost airman a freshly stropped Occam's razor...
--
Lörd Ph’ltźr
Alt.Atheism #1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
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| User: "Sleepalot" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 02:19:01 AM |
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Lost Planet Airman <knightrd@comcast.net> wrote:
This is a question about the nature of Fairness, not whether or not
their is a God. I just thought I would make that obvious before budikka
started slinging strings of obscenities at me.
If there was a God, and this God Desired for all humans to have free
will, and created a system for them to exist in:
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar to a
random number generator in a computer.
It seems that the most fair system would be one in which an individual
was blessed seemingly at random, another had something horrible at random.
Isn't randomness, Great events, or apparently horrible events, under the
laws of nature fair?
Hmmmm. I've had cancer twice, resulting in the loss of 1 1/5 kidneys.
It's a sure thing that I'm going to lose the remaining 1/2 kidney to
cancer. On top of that, I've got a very high risk of developing a
brain tumor, and a high risk of pancreatic cancer.
This is all the result of an inherited genetic mutation - a random
event.
Please explain to me why you imagine this might be "fair".
--
Sleepalot aa #1385
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| User: "Lost Planet Airman" |
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| Title: Re: A Question for Atheists and the Theists |
25 Feb 2006 02:44:19 AM |
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Sleepalot wrote:
Lost Planet Airman <knightrd@comcast.net> wrote:
This is a question about the nature of Fairness, not whether or not
their is a God. I just thought I would make that obvious before budikka
started slinging strings of obscenities at me.
If there was a God, and this God Desired for all humans to have free
will, and created a system for them to exist in:
Wouldn't the most fair way of implementing such a system be to have
everything totally random, or following some set of laws, similar to a
random number generator in a computer.
It seems that the most fair system would be one in which an individual
was blessed seemingly at random, another had something horrible at random.
Isn't randomness, Great events, or apparently horrible events, under the
laws of nature fair?
Hmmmm. I've had cancer twice, resulting in the loss of 1 1/5 kidneys.
It's a sure thing that I'm going to lose the remaining 1/2 kidney to
cancer. On top of that, I've got a very high risk of developing a
brain tumor, and a high risk of pancreatic cancer.
This is all the result of an inherited genetic mutation - a random
event.
Please explain to me why you imagine this might be "fair".
I suppose the definition of Fair would be "an overall balanced equation"
Or worse, Isn't being unfair to everybody, the same thing as being
fair? I was under the impression that fair meant equal. Not
necessarily good.
--
"Land of the free indeed. We've become a nation of ***** whipped
corporate whores."
- Rick 2003-11-19, 10:59 comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
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