| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Guardian Snow" |
| Date: |
17 Oct 2007 04:38:02 AM |
| Object: |
A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
On Oct 16, 4:39 pm, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
Paul fully recognized that these two commandments of Jesus
represented summary beliefs in connection with the Law of
Moses. And they were presented by Jesus to Israel while they
were yet under the Law of Moses. But Paul understood that
these summary principles of the Law could extend well beyond
the era of the Law, and apply to both Jews and Gentiles
under a new Christian system. Paul rightly understood that
loving our neighbor with the love of God can take place well
outside the scope of a narrow Law that applied strictly to
Israel.
When Paul talked about "loving our neighbor," he referred
not to just any love, but strictly to the love of God.
That's because it was God who commanded these things.
There are those who point out that today there is a "social
gospel," that is based on Christian morals, but which
doesn't really exude any kind of Christian spirituality. And
that's the hard truth. There is such a thing as a Christian
morality that has been stripped of its spirituality, which
no longer has much value to God. But I think it's pretty
clear that when Paul recommended adherance to Christ's
commandments, he was recommending not just moral observance,
but more, spirituality that comes from faith in Christ.
So it is my understanding that Paul is the Father of the NT Church of
Christ and he abolished the law which is why they now hold the
Messiah's day of rising from the grave as sacred. The entire Torah
has been abolished and all the Torah hangs on Loving your neighbor.
To that extent then why do bother going to church on Sunday at all or
give money to the church?
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are
justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
If by following any "law" we are fallen from grace then shouldn't the
new religion be Atheism? I'm curious to know becaues I know a lot of
of people that have no problem with loving their neighbors and the
real issue is following a false religion.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live
unto God.
Atheist are dead to the law and so they too are saved.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law
that it is good.
I would say that Atheist agree with this that they consent to laws
that are good.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
I would say that atheist are led by the spirit.
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not
expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought
under the power of any.
Atheist will definately agree with this teaching...
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not
expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
That seems like commen sence.. Can atheist subscribe to this religion?
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou
shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Who is willing to love his neighbor? I don't think any atheist will
disagree with that.
.
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| User: "Guardian Snow" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
18 Oct 2007 06:12:43 PM |
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On Oct 19, 8:08 am, skyeyes <skye...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
Oh, please. Most of the atheist regulars here know the bible *way*
better than you do. I myself have several copies, and I consult them
regularly, as they are a never-ending source of muddled thinking and
contradiction.
Which is exactly what I was trying to discuss with you but since your
incapable of rational arguement all you can do is resort to immature
name calling as if I care. To me it only shows me the weakness in you
when lack basic social ability to have a frank discussion. I was
speaking of the contridictions in scripture.
Your problem is that you used the bible to butress your argument,
which is ridiculous when you're talking to atheists, because the bible
carries no more weight with us than any other book of mythology does.
I was using the scriptures to show it's flaws but your to blinded by
hatred and fear.
And you're such a little crybaby that you can't stand to have this
pointed out to you.
You have no clue what I was talking about.
Your not Atheist
Atheist = "person lacking belief in any god or gods." It's perfectly
possible to be an atheist *and* an anti-theist. I happen to be both.
I lack belief in any god/gods, and I'm very much against religion,
because god belief either causes or exacerbates mental illness and
social injustice. That's not to say I'm against (for lack of a better
word) spirituality - it just means that I don't think that religion
has anything to do with spirituality.
Gives a definition and then refutes themselves and confirms what I
said, genious.
becaues if you were, you would be able to talk about the topic of
religion rationally.
Oh, we can talk about religion rationally - we think it's a crock
that's without any evidentiary foundation, but we arrive at that
opinion rationally. We do it every day. The problem is, you didn't
know your audience or doodly-squat about logic.
Your right, I didn't know the audience and how afraid they were of
rational discussion but I know plenty about logic and I see your lack
of it.
You can't even bear to look at a few bible
passages and that tells me that your actually afraid of the fact that
your wrong. It smells of fear and rightfully so.
I look at bible passages all the time, and so do many others here.
The problem is, there's no evidence that the bible is anything but a
book of Bronze Age mythology, and therefore is of no more use than any
*other* book of Bronze Age mythology.
And if you want to see fear, well, go check out the theist
newsgroups. Theism is built on a foundation of fear. We atheists
know that there is nothing to be afraid *of*.
If you believe that somehow by quoting a few bible passages and
talking about the inconsistancy of them is "selling fear", your sadly
mistaken. What you fail to understand even now is that I was speaking
about the differences in scriptures and it's major flaw, Paul.
Your entitiled to your belief and I actually would have respected an
honest debate but the responces I got were so juvinile it suprised
me. I actually believed that from a atheistic point of view that
somebody would be able to agree on differences in the scriptures but I
see thats not possible with this crowd that have such a lack or
morality, every attempt to make open discussion is treated with fear
and revulsion simply because I pasted a few bible passages.
It's almost sad because when I only pasted two passages, one author
actually accused me of pasting 60 and then dismissed my comments.
O.K. So the only thing you've shown me is that all of you are so "high
minded", your not better then the theist blinded by a contridictory
bible that sells one faith at the start and another at the middle and
a third at the end.
.
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
19 Oct 2007 11:06:44 AM |
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In article <1192749163.293509.90710@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Guardian Snow <snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
I was using the scriptures to show it's flaws but your to blinded by
hatred and fear.
All over the world, third grade English teachers are weeping.
-chib
--
Member of SMASH
Sarcastic Middle-Aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
18 Oct 2007 07:55:39 PM |
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:19:28 -0700, Guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
:
I tried to have a rational discussion with you. You've shown me your
not capable of that when it happens to inlude a few bible passages
because your poor eyes are so offended by the bible.
I have read the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek as well as the
Latin Vulgate, and scores of English versions, all the way through,
countless times.
You mischaracterise my erudition on the subject to an alarming degree.
In fact, you plainly and clearly lied about me above.
I do not take kindly to deliberate liars.
***** off out of here, if you wish to avoid having your ISP pull your
account for abuse of the alt.atheism charter.
:
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
18 Oct 2007 09:15:33 PM |
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On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:25:39 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:19:28 -0700, Guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
:
I tried to have a rational discussion with you. You've shown me your
not capable of that when it happens to inlude a few bible passages
because your poor eyes are so offended by the bible.
Do they really not understand why they are treated as liars and idiots
for saying this sort of thing?
Lie: He hasn't tried to hold any kind of rational discussion, because
that has to be from common shared understanding.
Stupid: Expecting people to grant his presumptions as a starting point
instead of working back to a mutually granted premises.
Lie: The only person incapable of rational discussion here is the
anonymous Liar For God hiding behind the nym "Guardian Snow".
Lie: "not capable of that when it happens to include a few Bible
passages"
Stupid: "Thinking" that the Bible should be authoritative to
non-Christians.
Lie: Pretending that the "reason" it is rejected is "because your poor
eyes are so offended by the Bible".
Nastiness: Same as the above lie because it was personal.
Stupid: Missing the obvious point that the Bible is as irrelevant to
non-Christians as eg the Hindu scriptures are to non-Hindus like
him.
I have read the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek as well as the
Latin Vulgate, and scores of English versions, all the way through,
countless times.
You mischaracterise my erudition on the subject to an alarming degree.
In fact, you plainly and clearly lied about me above.
He's a Christian. What do you expect? We know them by their fruits.
I do not take kindly to deliberate liars.
***** off out of here, if you wish to avoid having your ISP pull your
account for abuse of the alt.atheism charter.
Sadly, they don't think these lies make them liars because it is OK to
lie in the service of their religion.
This is actually more evidence of their stupidity: thinking we should
see it as anything other than lying.
And the whining hypocrisy when they are treated as stupid, liars etc
for all this.
:
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
19 Oct 2007 07:13:57 AM |
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 22:15:33 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 10:25:39 +0930, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:19:28 -0700, Guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
:
I tried to have a rational discussion with you. You've shown me your
not capable of that when it happens to inlude a few bible passages
because your poor eyes are so offended by the bible.
Do they really not understand why they are treated as liars and idiots
for saying this sort of thing?
Lie: He hasn't tried to hold any kind of rational discussion, because
that has to be from common shared understanding.
Stupid: Expecting people to grant his presumptions as a starting point
instead of working back to a mutually granted premises.
Lie: The only person incapable of rational discussion here is the
anonymous Liar For God hiding behind the nym "Guardian Snow".
Lie: "not capable of that when it happens to include a few Bible
passages"
Stupid: "Thinking" that the Bible should be authoritative to
non-Christians.
Lie: Pretending that the "reason" it is rejected is "because your poor
eyes are so offended by the Bible".
Nastiness: Same as the above lie because it was personal.
Stupid: Missing the obvious point that the Bible is as irrelevant to
non-Christians as eg the Hindu scriptures are to non-Hindus like
him.
I have read the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek as well as the
Latin Vulgate, and scores of English versions, all the way through,
countless times.
You mischaracterise my erudition on the subject to an alarming degree.
In fact, you plainly and clearly lied about me above.
He's a Christian. What do you expect? We know them by their fruits.
I do not take kindly to deliberate liars.
***** off out of here, if you wish to avoid having your ISP pull your
account for abuse of the alt.atheism charter.
Sadly, they don't think these lies make them liars because it is OK to
lie in the service of their religion.
This is actually more evidence of their stupidity: thinking we should
see it as anything other than lying.
And the whining hypocrisy when they are treated as stupid, liars etc
for all this.
Alas, every one of your cogent observations is smack bang on target.
If only they** were capable of rational conversation.
And to think, I actually had some minor hope for this one.
Pshaw!
....................
** The theistically infected.
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| User: "Guardian Snow" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
19 Oct 2007 10:55:48 AM |
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On Oct 19, 10:55 am, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
I have read the Bible in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek as well as the
Latin Vulgate, and scores of English versions, all the way through,
countless times.
You mischaracterise my erudition on the subject to an alarming degree.
In fact, you plainly and clearly lied about me above.
I do not take kindly to deliberate liars.
***** off out of here, if you wish to avoid having your ISP pull your
account for abuse of the alt.atheism charter.
Reading and understanding are two separate issues and I congrats you
on your ability to read. Actually, I think I just picked your post as
a spot to reply because you were one of the least offensive posters...
sorry about the confusion, I wasn't actually speaking to you but the
vast majority of responders.
(not to you) I find it ironic that so many "atheist" read the bible,
claim to know the bible and yet can't have a civil discourse about the
subject and the errors and lies that are within it.
(to you) We did agree on one issue, that the bible in it's current
state is not the "inspired word" as most people would have us believe.
I do not take kindly to deliberate liars.
I find it interesting that at the slightest sight of a possible
insult, you guys run around screaming about violations of rules
(atheist commandments) and pulling isp's while ignoring outright
insults and childish responding by "your own". O.K. clearly you have
your little "click" of bible fearing zealots that can't even fathom a
outside opinion.
So, what is it.. Thou shalt not bear false witness? Sounds pretty
biblical to me. Hypocrites!
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
19 Oct 2007 11:08:10 AM |
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Guardian Snow wrote:
(snip)
(to you) We did agree on one issue, that the bible in it's current
state is not the "inspired word" as most people would have us believe.
(snip)
By the way, most people would have us believe no such thing.
most people are not even Christians.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
18 Oct 2007 05:07:16 PM |
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:19:28 -0700, Guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
you would be able to talk about the topic of religion rationally.
That, itself, is an irrational statement.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"There is something feeble and a little contemptible about
a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of
comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is
aware that they are myths and that he believes them only
because they are comforting. But he dare not face this
thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his
opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are
disputed."
- Bertrand Russell
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| User: "Frank Mayhar" |
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| Title: Re: You not atheist, you anti-theist. |
18 Oct 2007 06:04:50 PM |
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You cretin, you go ***** yourself.
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:19:28 -0700, Guardian Snow wrote:
What a waste.
Yes, you are.
--
Frank Mayhar frank@exit.com http://www.exit.com/
Exit Consulting http://www.gpsclock.com/
http://www.exit.com/blog/frank/
http://www.zazzle.com/fmayhar*
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
18 Oct 2007 02:50:46 PM |
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On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 05:24:22 -0700, Guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
I guess I chose the wrong forum. It's just honestly... I really did
think those principles I was talking about would even suite atheist..
you know.. loving your neighbor and giving to the poor..
Most atheists are born with a sense of morality - something most
theists lack. We don't need a book to tell us what's right or wrong.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more
closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain
folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House
will be adorned by a downright moron."
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
18 Oct 2007 02:48:33 PM |
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On 17 Oct 2007 23:15:36 -0700, skyeyes <skyeyes@dakotacom.net> wrote:
See my remarks, above, about the mental processes of Paul.
And that's even assuming that he existed.
--
Al at Webdingers dot com
"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid
consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and
ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who
works on the basis of reward and punishment. "
- Letter to M. Berkowitz, October 25, 1950; Einstein Archive 59-215
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| User: "Guardian Snow" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
18 Oct 2007 01:26:14 AM |
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On Oct 18, 4:15 pm, skyeyes <skye...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 3:29 pm, Guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Oct 18, 8:00 am, skyeyes <skye...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 2:38 am, Guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
Paul fully recognized that these two commandments of Jesus
represented summary beliefs in connection with the Law of
Moses. And they were presented by Jesus to Israel while they
were yet under the Law of Moses. But Paul understood that
these summary principles of the Law could extend well beyond
the era of the Law, and apply to both Jews and Gentiles
under a new Christian system. Paul rightly understood that
loving our neighbor with the love of God can take place well
outside the scope of a narrow Law that applied strictly to
Israel.
When Paul talked about "loving our neighbor," he referred
not to just any love, but strictly to the love of God.
That's because it was God who commanded these things.
Please present evidence - and that *doesn't* mean bible verses - that
*any* god exists.
Unless and until you can do that, you're just spouting crap. Kindly
keep your ***** out of alt.atheism.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
Your misquoting me because I certainly said any of that. I'm trying
to make a point here and that is that Paul taught humanism, which is
fully exceptable to Atheist.
What makes you think that *anything* that Paul of Tarsus taught means
squat to an atheist? Paul also taught that women were inferior to
men. He also thought he saw Christ on the Damascus Road. At best,
Paul was a neurotic epileptic. At worst, he was a screaming
schizophrenic.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness
come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
He taught that Christ is dead and thats a bible verse.
*So* *what*? We're *atheists*, fer pete's sake. The bible is just
somebody else's book of mythology to us.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou
shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
That you could sum up the bible with love thy neighbor and thats a
princible even an atheist can agree with.
But we don't *need* the bible to know that treating others decently is
a good thing to do. We don't need justification in some holy book.
That's the *point*.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and
would pervert the gospel of Christ.
What he taught was the when Christ died, all humanity recieved grace
for sins.
Which presupposes the existence of a god. "Sin" is a strictly
religious concept, lambchop. So is "grace." Why would you think this
would be meaningful to atheists?
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not
expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought
under the power of any.
He doesn't say you have to be under the power of any God or even
believe in him.
Not *there*, but he says it plenty of other places. Don't think that
I'm ignorant of the bible because I'm an atheist. I grew up
Conservative Baptist, was saved at age 11, and read the bible through
the first time when I was 8 years old - and read it through every year
thereafter until I was 22. I've read many different translations, and
I've read it in German, Spanish, and Modern Greek. So don't try
telling me what the bible says, 'kay?
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs
according to the hope of eternal life.
That there is something better then faith in God...
If you get that out of Titus 3:7...good for you. I don't see that at
all, and it certainly isn't what either mailine protestantism, the
roamin' catlicks, or fundamentalist christianity teaches, but if it
works for you, go nuts, kiddo.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ,
let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of
repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and
of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
I'm pointing to the true doctrine of Paul in the bible.
See my remarks, above, about the mental processes of Paul.
Brenda- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I happen to agree with you Brenda. Paul is a liar, a thief and a
murderer and it's amazing to me that Christians worship this man as
being "holy". I wonder how many atheist are created because of the
lies of Paul and his hatred of woman in general.
With respect,
Snow
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
22 Oct 2007 12:43:47 PM |
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Guardian Snow wrote:
On Oct 18, 4:15 pm, skyeyes <skye...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 3:29 pm, Guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Oct 18, 8:00 am, skyeyes <skye...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
On Oct 17, 2:38 am, Guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
Paul fully recognized that these two commandments of Jesus
represented summary beliefs in connection with the Law of
Moses. And they were presented by Jesus to Israel while they
were yet under the Law of Moses. But Paul understood that
these summary principles of the Law could extend well beyond
the era of the Law, and apply to both Jews and Gentiles
under a new Christian system. Paul rightly understood that
loving our neighbor with the love of God can take place well
outside the scope of a narrow Law that applied strictly to
Israel.
When Paul talked about "loving our neighbor," he referred
not to just any love, but strictly to the love of God.
That's because it was God who commanded these things.
Please present evidence - and that *doesn't* mean bible verses - that
*any* god exists.
Unless and until you can do that, you're just spouting crap. Kindly
keep your ***** out of alt.atheism.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
Your misquoting me because I certainly said any of that. I'm trying
to make a point here and that is that Paul taught humanism, which is
fully exceptable to Atheist.
What makes you think that *anything* that Paul of Tarsus taught means
squat to an atheist? Paul also taught that women were inferior to
men. He also thought he saw Christ on the Damascus Road. At best,
Paul was a neurotic epileptic. At worst, he was a screaming
schizophrenic.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness
come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
He taught that Christ is dead and thats a bible verse.
*So* *what*? We're *atheists*, fer pete's sake. The bible is just
somebody else's book of mythology to us.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou
shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
That you could sum up the bible with love thy neighbor and thats a
princible even an atheist can agree with.
But we don't *need* the bible to know that treating others decently is
a good thing to do. We don't need justification in some holy book.
That's the *point*.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you
into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and
would pervert the gospel of Christ.
What he taught was the when Christ died, all humanity recieved grace
for sins.
Which presupposes the existence of a god. "Sin" is a strictly
religious concept, lambchop. So is "grace." Why would you think this
would be meaningful to atheists?
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not
expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought
under the power of any.
He doesn't say you have to be under the power of any God or even
believe in him.
Not *there*, but he says it plenty of other places. Don't think that
I'm ignorant of the bible because I'm an atheist. I grew up
Conservative Baptist, was saved at age 11, and read the bible through
the first time when I was 8 years old - and read it through every year
thereafter until I was 22. I've read many different translations, and
I've read it in German, Spanish, and Modern Greek. So don't try
telling me what the bible says, 'kay?
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs
according to the hope of eternal life.
That there is something better then faith in God...
If you get that out of Titus 3:7...good for you. I don't see that at
all, and it certainly isn't what either mailine protestantism, the
roamin' catlicks, or fundamentalist christianity teaches, but if it
works for you, go nuts, kiddo.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ,
let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of
repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and
of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
I'm pointing to the true doctrine of Paul in the bible.
See my remarks, above, about the mental processes of Paul.
Brenda- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I happen to agree with you Brenda. Paul is a liar, a thief and a
murderer and it's amazing to me that Christians worship this man as
being "holy".
I don't get it. So what if he was a liar, a thief, and a murderer?
The words are what is important, not who said them. Who knows if
there even was a Paul. It's completely immaterial to the message.
I wonder how many atheist are created because of the
lies of Paul and his hatred of woman in general.
Two things about that statement.
First, it's illogical. The gospel is either true or it isn't on its
own merits, regardless of how you personally feel about it. "Paul
doesn't like women, therefore I don't believe in God" is pretty flawed
reasoning.
Second, the guy wrote 2000 years ago. It's naive to expect him to
express modern sensibilities about gender equality.
With respect,
Snow
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| User: "V" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
18 Oct 2007 07:43:26 AM |
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On Oct 17, 5:38?am, Guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Oct 16, 4:39 pm, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
Paul fully recognized that these two commandments of Jesus
represented summary beliefs in connection with the Law of
Moses. And they were presented by Jesus to Israel while they
were yet under the Law of Moses. But Paul understood that
these summary principles of the Law could extend well beyond
the era of the Law, and apply to both Jews and Gentiles
under a new Christian system. Paul rightly understood that
loving our neighbor with the love of God can take place well
outside the scope of a narrow Law that applied strictly to
Israel.
When Paul talked about "loving our neighbor," he referred
not to just any love, but strictly to the love of God.
That's because it was God who commanded these things.
There are those who point out that today there is a "social
gospel," that is based on Christian morals, but which
doesn't really exude any kind of Christian spirituality. And
that's the hard truth. There is such a thing as a Christian
morality that has been stripped of its spirituality, which
no longer has much value to God. But I think it's pretty
clear that when Paul recommended adherance to Christ's
commandments, he was recommending not just moral observance,
but more, spirituality that comes from faith in Christ.
So it is my understanding that Paul is the Father of the NT Church of
Christ and he abolished the law which is why they now hold the
Messiah's day of rising from the grave as sacred. The entire Torah
has been abolished and all the Torah hangs on Loving your neighbor.
To that extent then why do bother going to church on Sunday at all or
give money to the church?
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are
justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
If by following any "law" we are fallen from grace then shouldn't the
new religion be Atheism? I'm curious to know becaues I know a lot of
of people that have no problem with loving their neighbors and the
real issue is following a false religion.
Gal 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live
unto God.
Atheist are dead to the law and so they too are saved.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law
that it is good.
I would say that Atheist agree with this that they consent to laws
that are good.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
I would say that atheist are led by the spirit.
1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not
expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought
under the power of any.
Atheist will definately agree with this teaching...
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not
expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
That seems like commen sence.. Can atheist subscribe to this religion?
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou
shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Who is willing to love his neighbor? I don't think any atheist will
disagree with that.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Sure, atheists can draw wisdom from all religions if they are open
minded. I was discussing 'spiritual aspects of living' on various
online forums. One group was a dedicated atheists discussion list with
most members only offering bitter personal attacks instead of adding
anything substantive to the discussion.
But to be fair to these atheists, I've known many a religious fellow
that are just as bitter, if not more so, than atheists I meet. So just
being 'religious' is not a guarantee of being at peace.
Each man made religion contains perfection's as well as imperfections.
It is up to the practitioner or end user to use the tools in the right
way.
The problem is not the wisdom that is defective.
The problem lies with religious practitioners who are defective in
their practice of this wisdom.
The wisdom works - we don't work the wisdom.
Many times we are too busy for peace. As one atheist list member
wrote, 'It took awhile - far too long, really - but I've finally found
that one can find peace by simply being undisturbed."
Yes, peace is our birthright, if we are not destroying it by our own
actions. In order to slow down enough to be able to use peace as a
tool I needed to apply simplicity and renunciation to my life.
I am not an acetic or total renunciate by any means, but I did have to
let go of many peace destroying habits before making room for inner
peace to enter my life. As we get rid of one thing, it make room for
another thing to enter.
The online discussions based in bitterness brought up the question of
"what guiding light do atheists use to be at peace?"
Not much was offered in reply to my question. I got a few answers here
or there.
It seems whenever the discussion turns to 'inner peace' many of the
people I talk with are silent, this even goes for 'pious' Catholic
priests.
But, one fellow on the forum mentioned 'truth and philosophy,' as his
tools - both of these being good answers for peace generation with
proper application. Philosophy plays a big role in my life as well for
providing tools to live at peace.
I also supplement my spiritual path from many other sources as I will
go into below. I am only interested in practical application of
philosophy though and not bickering and arguing over the unanswerable.
So, I prefer truth based discussions over ego based discussions where
the truth gets overshadowed by rhetoric. As someone once wrote ... "if
you don't know the answer then just say so."
see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=504.0
I was at a philosophy symposium last year and talked with a professor
about a teaching / mentor relationship he had with Ayn Rand.
He went on to say how after a year they broke up the mentor
relationship on a sour note. After I questioned the professor about
Rand's personal life as well as her state of inner peace and
happiness, I could see that with all her talents of 'smarts' she was
bankrupt when the subject turned to peace smarts, contentment and
happiness.
She was ego based and not practice based when it came to peace
generation.
Furthermore, she not only destroyed her peace, but from the
information that came out of our discussion, the then student's peace
was disturbed at the time and it still sounded disturbed decades later
as a distinguished professor and author. Academic smarts are not the
same as peace smarts.
The branch of philosophy that deals with the study of ethics and
virtue has also helped me along in life.
What is virtue and ethics?
Some authorities define it as 'excellence of the soul' or moral
excellence. (Although the Greeks thought of 'soul and form' in
different terms than say Christians think of soul. For example, the
soul of an eye would be its ability to 'see' and whether this ability
was good or bad would decide whether the soul of an eye had 'virtue'
or excellence.)
The concept for understanding virtue can be told in a story of the
'Ring of Gyges' or 'Myth of Gyges'. This story was taken from Plato's
Republic and recounts how the shepherd Gyges finds a ring on a hand
extending from a crack in the earth and removes the ring from the hand
and puts it on. Gyges discovers the magic ring gives him powers to be
invisible at will and then uses these powers to kill the king, rape
the queen and take over the kingdom. As James Allen tells us in "As A
Man Thinketh" - "Circumstances does not make the man - it reveals him
to himself"
What is virtuous behavior in a flourishing human being?
In readily understandable terms we can help define virtue for us from
this story of Gyges and by asking ourselves the question, "What would
we do if no one was looking or we knew we would not get caught?"
No heaven, no hell, no God, no karma, no police, nothing but us and
our virtue?
Would our actions promote our inner peace as well as the inner peace
of others or would our actions destroy our peace and the peace of
others?
Virtue is not learned from the classroom, other than memorizing
definitions. Remember, a fool can only say what he knows ~ it takes a
wise man to know what he says.
How do we become a success at living a virtuous life and really know
what we say?
As a lecture on Aristotle mentioned: "We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit." We develop it by
practice. Practicing 'excellence of the human soul' is how.
Beside the philosophical studies of ethics and virtue, a Buddhist or
Taoist practice is another good peace developer for anyone to adopt
whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
Buddhists are generally not required to believe or not believe in God,
so anyone can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their
religious beliefs or lack thereof.
But be careful with your Buddhist studies if you decide to head in
this direction. For Buddhism is riddled with useless ego based dogma.
If you can sift through the useless as a freethinker and find the gems
you will do well.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=9.0
Personally, I've settled on the essence of Buddhism and that is what I
work on and find much peace with this type of simplified Buddhist
practice.
"The Three Pillars of Buddhism"
1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self
awareness of our own true nature.
2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing non-
clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.
3- The development of compassion for others.
In addition to the three pillars, we can use the eightfold path to
guide us. Within the three pillars and the eightfold path are a
lifetime of practice.
No need to get lost in endless debate and spend your precious time in
idle talk that only serves to massage one's ego. Plenty of work to do
right here, right now, unless we prefer to keep our minds distracted
through our perpetual complexities we are so addicted to.
We do need to give some thought of the 'right' way to live as the
eightfold path tells us, so we should never try and be devoid of
thought in our lives, but instead look for a balance and let thought
serve us for once.
"The Eightfold Path"
1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration
How can you differentiate right from wrong?
By peace.
You learn what destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as
what promotes you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you
need a teacher for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to
peace as the best teacher?
The Five precepts are the 'commandments' more or less for Buddhists.
Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at
peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice.
"The Five Precepts"
1. Refrain from Killing
2. Refrain from Stealing
3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct
4. Refrain from False Speech
5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants
Once I am at peace, I can share with others about finding peace for
themselves, which is the secondary reason I practice.
I have no interest in practicing Buddhism for extinguishing
reincarnation. These "fear based" reasons for being a Buddhist are
not authentic or natural - the persons actions are based on fear or
negative consequences otherwise they would not do them. My actions are
based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my
choice.
Remember what I wrote about above with the myth of Gyges?
Take away the fear of pain of karma or hell and you have a different
person?
A truly virtuous life remains the same irrespective of such fears and
is not based on them.
I enjoy life and realize that due to natural law, suffering comes
about as part of the process and I accept it as a fair trade off for
the privilege of living.
Buddhism helps makes this trade off of life and pain more in my favor
by lending me support to live a life at peace. I do not practice
Buddhism to earn merit for the next life - I practice Buddhism for my
own peace generation in THIS LIFE.
You see, once a religion requires faith, this is where I leave off
with it's teaching.
I only use the tools that can be applied in this life that can be
tested to yield peace.
Otherwise, if I succumb to fantasy notions I start heading towards the
road of delusion.
So whether it is heaven, hell, reincarnation or chanting 'Namo
Amitabha Buddha' for the Buddha to carry me off to the pure
land...none of this can be proven as fact and is just based on ego
based man and their fantasies.
Still, I am not shy about benefiting from any religious path that
offers tools for me to live at peace.
I take from ALL spiritual paths without prejudice, my only requirement
is that the religious or spiritual tool be one that offers peace. Any
tool always has to pass the peace test, this way it speaks of a
'higher authority' than just man made dogma - it speaks of universal
truth.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=470.0
But, this all has to be done in balance.
For there are many true things that are good - but done in excess they
become bad.
For, even though air and water give us life, they will also give us
death when in excess.
So always seek balance.
How flexible can you be when it comes to finding tools for living at
peace within the worlds spiritual paths?
Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from the Muslim's prayer
schedule to use myself. The Muslims have a practice of praying five
times a day to Allah. For those that do not know, Allah is the same
God of the Jews and of the Old Testament that the Christians worship.
The Muslims pray at sun up, when the sun is at its zenith at noon,
when the sun is part way down in the afternoon, when the sun sets and
when they go to bed. Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from
the Muslim's prayer schedule to use as a reminder to be mindful of
"gratitude" in my life.
If you do not want to develop a practice of gratitude, then what about
using it as a reminder 5 times a day to relax your breath, practice
mindfulness and bring your thoughts back to the present moment? When
you have come to a point of gratitude for being able to open your eyes
in the morning and being able to take a breath of air everything else
is just gravy so to speak. Gratitude plays an important part with
finding inner peace, just as being mindful of the present moment and
being aware of anything that causes this mindfulness to wander.
If I could define the basis of my spiritual practice it would be that
of peace and practicality. Inner peace is the foundation of it all,
for we cannot have world peace without first being at peace within. I
used to be a Catholic for many years of my life as well as a
freethinking Buddhist before becoming an agnostic freethinker.
See::
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=318.0
A few years ago a lady moderator on a Christian forum banned me for
claiming that God is peace, telling me "you don't know who God is."
Funny thing about the Christians. I was a Christian as well as a
freethinking Buddhist in my earlier life and 100% of the Christian
forums have banned me, and 95% of the Buddhist forums have also banned
me.
This says something about the Christians and Buddhists and whether
they practice what they preach? The Christians chanting the Golden
rule of Reciprocity and Charity and Humility? and the Buddhists
preaching Compassion, Do No Harm and Egoless Non-Self?
Why am I banned so much?
Is it for getting in fights or flame wars?
No...I get banned for writing about truth.
When someone disagrees with you, apply the law of opposites to get at
the truth.
This removes the personalities and focusses on the principles and
helps you see the entire picture.
If God is not peace, then God must be the opposite of peace...turmoil
and unrest.
I prefer to believe God is peace and God is the authority on the
subject of peace.
The difference between an authority and an authoritarian is this. An
authority speaks from a place of truth and such speaks as an
authority. Whereas an authoritarian rules by fear and not by truth.
For the truth stands on it own and the authoritarian stands on their
ego.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=343.0
The Buddhists have a set of rules they use to determine what are
definitive truths and what are not. This can also be applied to such
questions.
1) Do not rely on just the person but rely on the doctrine.
2) With respect to the doctrine, do not rely on just the words, but
rely on the meaning.
3) With respect to the meaning, do not rely on just meaning requiring
interpretation, but rely on meaning that is definitive.
4) With respect to definitive meaning, do not rely on just dualistic
understanding but rely on the wisdom of the direct perception of the
truth.
Bringing this worship business back to the topic of religion, do we
worship a higher power out of fear for if we do not worship this
higher power we will be killed?
Sounds like the aliens in an old "Superman" movies that came to earth
to tell us to bow down to them or else?
If there was a God or a higher power does this entity need us to 'bow
down' to a 'big ego' or does God need us to 'act right' to our
companions as well as to act right to ourselves?
Bowing down produces no peace, whether in the person that demands it
due to an over bloated ego, nor does it foster peace within the person
forced to worship against their will. But this is how man made
religions work - they are run by fear, greed and ego.
I prefer to be truth and peace based. Many think God is like 'Santa
Claus' and must come through with their demands, just as we did as
greedy children making up a long, impossible list for Santa to fill.
This smacks of the ego based practitioner.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0
The ego based person prays thinking they know better than God does.
The truly spiritual based person prays for God's will and not their
own, for if they truly knew better than God...the practitioner would
be the God.
Nothing wrong with asking if one is a believer, but always end such
requests humbly with accepting Gods or a higher powers will with
gratitude.
Can you imagine if everyone's prayers were answered according to our
self centered and conflicting demands? The world would be in real
turmoil then.
No, I prefer to make the God of Peace and the God of Nature two Gods I
serve and as such my actions can be evaluated in simple terms of
bringing me in harmony with these two Gods or not.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
Many times we violate the three branches of laws that govern us and
constantly ask God or a higher power to give us 'hall passes' to avoid
the consequences of our actions. Such prayer is again ego based,
thinking we should have preference over the rest of the world for
wishing to be exempt from our actions
We are all governed by these three areas of laws.
1 - Natural Law
2 - Divine or spiritual law (if you believe in spiritual matters)
3 - Manmade laws
I find that sometime spiritual practitioners neglect the natural laws
that govern our bodies and suffer in this area from lack of living a
balanced life.
Some of us forget we are spiritual beings residing in physical bodies
living in physical world and governed my both spiritual and physical
or natural laws in addition to man made laws.
We need some effort with spiritual work and some effort in physical
work for a good balance. Some of us think we can defy man made laws as
well as divine or spiritual laws.
But no matter how defiant the person is...we all answer to natural
law. We all bow to nature in the end.
Anyway, you are free to think or not think of God or higher power as
you see fit. I am only a 'minor authority' on peace and do not wish to
be an authoritarian, so I allow freedom for all to think as they wish
and only ask the same courtesy be extended to me - reciprocity.
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
This applies to atheists as well as the religious or the pious. To
avoid prejudice, we have to be careful of 'black or white' absolutes
if you claim to truth based and not ego based in your beliefs. I work
to keep an open mind for all religions as well as those persons that
believe nothing.
When I discussed Christian principles one time an Atheist piped up to
say "the Christians have no principles," and "Jesus was a fabled
creation of the Christians."
When we sperate the personalities from the principles it makes looking
at things much easier. When I am referring to Christian principles I
speak of such things as charity, works of mercy and the golden rule,
where the emphasis is on principles and not on the personalities of
the church.
For even if Jesus was just created as a fable, these Christian
principles are universal truths in their own right if one desires to
live a life at peace and promote the inner peace of others in this
world. Is it any different from the Taoists following the legend of
Lao Tzu? Always look at what is said and not at who says what this
divorces the personalties and prejudice from your search for truth.
"The Corporal Works of Mercy"
To feed the hungry
To give drink to the thirsty
To clothe the naked
To harbour the harbourless
To visit the sick
To ransom the captive
To bury the dead
"The Spiritual Works of Mercy"
To instruct the ignorant
To counsel the doubtful
To admonish sinners
To bear wrongs patiently
To forgive offenses willingly
To comfort the afflicted
To pray for the living and the dead
You see, by applying the rule of reciprocity or rule of opposites we
can see if we were in these positions of the needy mentioned above, we
would like such charity bestowed on us for the most part. What about
our children, parents and loved ones? Wouldn't we wish the same for
them? We have no loved ones? What about our neighbors?
The Christian ethic says to treat one another as we would wish to be
treated. As we give ~ so we receive. Even if an atheist, as we give
peace - we receive inner peace as many of the tools I mentioned above
do not require belief in God, they only requirement is a desire to be
at peace and to bring peace to others. This is the Christian doctrine
in a nutshell, when we put principles before personalities.
As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds
and water these seeds within you as well. As James Allen wrote in "As
a man Thinketh" ~ To think well of all, to be cheerful with all, to
patiently learn to find the good in all - such unselfish thoughts are
the very portals of heaven; and to dwell day by day in thoughts of
peace toward every creature will bring abounding peace to their
possessor."
This is universal truth that transcends man made religions.
Remember, we do not have to do it perfectly. Just look for direction
and forget perfection - for perfection or range is of the ego and form
is of the soul.
There are many tools for peace within the worlds spiritual paths, no
one said these paths are perfect, in fact, it was once said that
walking the spiritual path is akin to walking on a razors edge. But if
we bother to be honest, non prejudicial and to look, we can find tools
that can help us be at peace whether atheist, agnostic or believer.
In the Gnostic gospel of Thomas, it was reported:
"The disciples asked Jesus, when will the kingdom come? Jesus replied,
'The kingdom will not come by watching for it. It will not be said -
look here or look there. Rather, the kingdom of heaven is spread out
upon the earth and men do not see it."
What does this quote mean for the atheist as well as the religious
minded person?
For the atheist or as a nonbeliever of an afterlife:
THIS LIFE IS IT - This life is either heaven or hell as you make it.
Just grabbing all the gusto you can will not give you peace.
It requires much more than that - for greed is never satisfied by
attainment, it is only satisfied by contentment. We are reminded to be
mindful of each moment given to us and to be grateful for this life.
Being of service to others and charitable actions help lead us to
contentment and peace.
There are 3 components for a happy life: Contentment, love or
compassion and gratitude. When we realize that happiness and
contentment are there for the taking and that they are independent
from our circumstances it sometimes can sink in that there is nothing
stopping us from being content and happy this very instant.
It is your choice alone as to whether you make this life one of peace
for yourself and others or not, but in either case you will reap what
you sow. "Just as a life of virtue yields its own reward, a life of
vice yields its own punishment" - Plutarch
For the religious minded person and believer in an afterlife:
Jesus' saying will foreshadow things to come. For if we make this
earthly life hell for ourselves and others, we have a slim chance of
doing better in an afterlife. Just paying lip service to religious
principles and doing the opposite will not do it.
Again mindfulness of our actions is most important. An old Buddhist
saying sheds some light on our journey "when one eye is kept on the
destination, it only leaves one eye left for the journey." If we keep
fixated on the after life, and can't find peace in the present life,
we can lose sight of the fact that our actions can turn the present
moment in a living hell for us as well as others.
Actions speak louder than words and this especially applies to such
religious beliefs. By applying the rule of reciprocity and Christian
ethics and charity we have better chance at entering any afterlife and
in the interim help make this life a peaceful one for all that dwell
on earth.
So, whether you are on either end of this spectrum of beliefs, the
choices are the same as to the direction we take when it comes to
inner peace.
The seeds of enlightenment are all around us - we only have to seek
the truth and come to peace within to realize this.
A quote on finding peace from Thich Nhat Hanh
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way.
This means that we can realize peace right here in the present moment
with our look, our smile, our words and our actions.
Peace work in not a means, each step we take should be peace.
Every step we take should be joy.
Every step we take should be happiness.
Are you massaging Mother Earth every time your foot touches her?
Are you planting seeds of joy and peace?
Enlightenment, peace and joy will not be granted by someone else.
The well is within us and if we dig deeply in the present moment the
water will spring forth.
If we are determined, we can do it.
We don't need the future.
We can smile, breath fully and relax Everything we want is here in the
present moment.
Peace is every step.
Shall we continue our journey?"
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
14 Nov 2007 03:28:46 PM |
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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:38:02 -0700, Guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Oct 16, 4:39 pm, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
[]
If by following any "law" we are fallen from grace then shouldn't the
new religion be Atheism?
'Bald' is not a hair colour.
[]
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| User: "JayJBee" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
18 Dec 2007 08:40:41 AM |
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stoney wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:38:02 -0700, Guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Oct 16, 4:39 pm, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
[]
If by following any "law" we are fallen from grace then shouldn't the
new religion be Atheism?
'Bald' is not a hair colour.
It is under influence of fashion, tho'... and maskable with hats
JayBee
"I wear my sunglasses at night"
[]
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
17 Oct 2007 12:02:31 PM |
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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:38:02 -0700, Guardian Snow wrote:
Who is willing to love his neighbor? I don't think any atheist will
disagree with that.
I will. I don't even *like* my neighbors...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“Communism, like any other revealed religion,
is largely made up of prophecies.”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
17 Oct 2007 12:08:41 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:K9Wdnbjs3dW63YvanZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@giganews.com...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:38:02 -0700, Guardian Snow wrote:
Who is willing to love his neighbor? I don't think any atheist will
disagree with that.
I will. I don't even *like* my neighbors...
I certainly don't love my neighbors when their fireworks keep ending up on
my front lawn :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
17 Oct 2007 07:13:02 PM |
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On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:08:41 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:K9Wdnbjs3dW63YvanZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@giganews.com...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:38:02 -0700, Guardian Snow wrote:
Who is willing to love his neighbor? I don't think any atheist will
disagree with that.
I will. I don't even *like* my neighbors...
I certainly don't love my neighbors when their fireworks keep ending up
on my front lawn :P
My neighbor's cat didn't love me when he showed up on my lawn...
(Hopefully he learned his lesson)
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and
glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach
their heart's desire at last, and the White House will
be adorned by a downright moron.”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
19 Oct 2007 08:45:16 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:4NidnSW4hPCTOIvanZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:08:41 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:K9Wdnbjs3dW63YvanZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@giganews.com...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:38:02 -0700, Guardian Snow wrote:
Who is willing to love his neighbor? I don't think any atheist will
disagree with that.
I will. I don't even *like* my neighbors...
I certainly don't love my neighbors when their fireworks keep ending up
on my front lawn :P
My neighbor's cat didn't love me when he showed up on my lawn...
Not with YOUR dogs, I'm sure ;)
(Hopefully he learned his lesson
That hard way? :(
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
19 Oct 2007 08:26:09 PM |
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On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:45:16 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:4NidnSW4hPCTOIvanZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:08:41 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:K9Wdnbjs3dW63YvanZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@giganews.com...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:38:02 -0700, Guardian Snow wrote:
Who is willing to love his neighbor? I don't think any atheist will
disagree with that.
I will. I don't even *like* my neighbors...
I certainly don't love my neighbors when their fireworks keep ending
up on my front lawn :P
My neighbor's cat didn't love me when he showed up on my lawn...
Not with YOUR dogs, I'm sure ;)
(Hopefully he learned his lesson
That hard way? :(
Close. He ended up a tree, panting like I've never see a cat pant. I
couldn't *see* anything serious like bite marks or anything. Hopefully it
was a close call he won't soon forget.
And what an *idiot* of a cat. I own the lot across the street (that vague
path in the dirt the county calls a "street" just to be funny) and it's a
good half acre of undeveloped land (bought it to keep it undeveloped,
last thing I wanted was some redneck pulling a trailer in, wrecking, then
going broke and disappearing). Stupid cat has a hunting/playground/cat
paradise right across the street to which my dogs cannot go but he comes
not just in *this* part of the yard but within tie-out range.
I mean, I have about an acre here. The neighbors to which the cat belongs
have a lot big as the one my house sits on and there's another one on the
other side just as big. The dogs have a twenty foot range. So he came
RIGHT TO THEM?
Sometimes, natural selection just ain't pretty...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
“A Sunday school is a prison in which children do
penance for the evil conscience of their parents. ”
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
22 Oct 2007 09:57:35 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:aNSdnb1ayOasxITanZ2dnUVZ_vfinZ2d@giganews.com...
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:45:16 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
snip
My neighbor's cat didn't love me when he showed up on my lawn...
Not with YOUR dogs, I'm sure ;)
(Hopefully he learned his lesson
That hard way? :(
Close. He ended up a tree, panting like I've never see a cat pant. I
couldn't *see* anything serious like bite marks or anything. Hopefully it
was a close call he won't soon forget.
Goodness, I would hope so.
And what an *idiot* of a cat. I own the lot across the street (that vague
path in the dirt the county calls a "street" just to be funny) and it's a
good half acre of undeveloped land (bought it to keep it undeveloped,
last thing I wanted was some redneck pulling a trailer in, wrecking, then
going broke and disappearing). Stupid cat has a hunting/playground/cat
paradise right across the street to which my dogs cannot go but he comes
not just in *this* part of the yard but within tie-out range.
Idiot.
I mean, I have about an acre here. The neighbors to which the cat belongs
have a lot big as the one my house sits on and there's another one on the
other side just as big. The dogs have a twenty foot range. So he came
RIGHT TO THEM?
Oh well, dogs don't have the monopoly on stupidity, you know ;)
Sometimes, natural selection just ain't pretty...
Indeed. I saw quite a bit of that this weekend. Was outside with the puppy
and noticed a dead squirrel by the back door. Well, what remained of a dead
squirrel from the waist down anyway. Blech. Yelled to George that Kenya
(who's 14, no front claws and missing most of her teeth) had caught and
eaten most of a squirrel and could he please remove the corpse when he got a
chance. Well! Guess who comes strolling across the backyard with a HUGE
DEAD squirrel hanging out of her mouth! Damn, but the old cat is deadly! :P
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
22 Oct 2007 11:34:28 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:aNSdnb1ayOasxITanZ2dnUVZ_vfinZ2d@giganews.com...
[...]
Sometimes, natural selection just ain't pretty...
Indeed. I saw quite a bit of that this weekend. Was outside with the puppy
and noticed a dead squirrel by the back door. Well, what remained of a dead
squirrel from the waist down anyway. Blech. Yelled to George that Kenya
(who's 14, no front claws and missing most of her teeth) had caught and
eaten most of a squirrel and could he please remove the corpse when he got a
chance. Well! Guess who comes strolling across the backyard with a HUGE
DEAD squirrel hanging out of her mouth! Damn, but the old cat is deadly! :P
That's hard-wired in most of them, thanks to their (slight) domestication a
few millennia ago...of course, when we had ours, the younger one (Boudreaux)
would react to the occasional crane fly getting inside by watching it flitting
around the ceiling and sputtering at it. If he ever actually caught one, I
wasn't around at the time.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2007-08 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 6, San Antonio 5 (SO) (October 19)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 27 at San Antonio, 7:05
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
22 Oct 2007 11:51:24 AM |
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"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szkprz7umzv.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:aNSdnb1ayOasxITanZ2dnUVZ_vfinZ2d@giganews.com...
[...]
Sometimes, natural selection just ain't pretty...
Indeed. I saw quite a bit of that this weekend. Was outside with the puppy
and noticed a dead squirrel by the back door. Well, what remained of a
dead
squirrel from the waist down anyway. Blech. Yelled to George that Kenya
(who's 14, no front claws and missing most of her teeth) had caught and
eaten most of a squirrel and could he please remove the corpse when he got
a
chance. Well! Guess who comes strolling across the backyard with a HUGE
DEAD squirrel hanging out of her mouth! Damn, but the old cat is deadly!
:P
That's hard-wired in most of them, thanks to their (slight) domestication
a
few millennia ago...of course, when we had ours, the younger one
(Boudreaux)
would react to the occasional crane fly getting inside by watching it
flitting
around the ceiling and sputtering at it. If he ever actually caught one,
I
wasn't around at the time.
We never used to let Kenya outside, but she's getting cranky in her old age
and has started pissing on the carpets (and there's nothing physically wrong
with her), so we let her go outside - something she's been wanting for
years. I just never thought she'd do so well at murdering (and consuming)
the local wildlife. So far she's gotten two shrews, one mouse, two
chipmunks, one sparrow and now two squirrels. I shudder to think how many
she's hasn't left at the back door.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
23 Oct 2007 12:40:45 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szkprz7umzv.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:aNSdnb1ayOasxITanZ2dnUVZ_vfinZ2d@giganews.com...
[...]
Sometimes, natural selection just ain't pretty...
Indeed. I saw quite a bit of that this weekend. Was outside with the puppy
and noticed a dead squirrel by the back door. Well, what remained of a
dead squirrel from the waist down anyway. Blech. Yelled to George that
Kenya (who's 14, no front claws and missing most of her teeth) had caught
and eaten most of a squirrel and could he please remove the corpse when he
got a chance. Well! Guess who comes strolling across the backyard with a
HUGE DEAD squirrel hanging out of her mouth! Damn, but the old cat is
deadly! :P
That's hard-wired in most of them, thanks to their (slight) domestication a
few millennia ago...of course, when we had ours, the younger one
(Boudreaux) would react to the occasional crane fly getting inside by
watching it flitting around the ceiling and sputtering at it. If he ever
actually caught one, I wasn't around at the time.
We never used to let Kenya outside, but she's getting cranky in her old age
and has started pissing on the carpets (and there's nothing physically wrong
with her), so we let her go outside - something she's been wanting for
years. I just never thought she'd do so well at murdering (and consuming)
the local wildlife. So far she's gotten two shrews, one mouse, two
chipmunks, one sparrow and now two squirrels. I shudder to think how many
she's hasn't left at the back door.
We had a neighbor who had an impressive pet mouse - which met its demise one
night a few years ago when we were just parking. One of the neighborhood cats
went streaking across the driveway and *chomp!* seconds later, was dragging it
off to dinner...of course, our two would have looked at us and asked "we're
supposed to eat *that*?!?".)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2007-08 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 6, San Antonio 5 (SO) (October 19)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 27 at San Antonio, 7:05
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
23 Oct 2007 06:34:41 AM |
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"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szkr6jmwfqa.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szkprz7umzv.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:aNSdnb1ayOasxITanZ2dnUVZ_vfinZ2d@giganews.com...
[...]
Sometimes, natural selection just ain't pretty...
Indeed. I saw quite a bit of that this weekend. Was outside with the
puppy
and noticed a dead squirrel by the back door. Well, what remained of a
dead squirrel from the waist down anyway. Blech. Yelled to George that
Kenya (who's 14, no front claws and missing most of her teeth) had
caught
and eaten most of a squirrel and could he please remove the corpse when
he
got a chance. Well! Guess who comes strolling across the backyard with
a
HUGE DEAD squirrel hanging out of her mouth! Damn, but the old cat is
deadly! :P
That's hard-wired in most of them, thanks to their (slight)
domestication a
few millennia ago...of course, when we had ours, the younger one
(Boudreaux) would react to the occasional crane fly getting inside by
watching it flitting around the ceiling and sputtering at it. If he
ever
actually caught one, I wasn't around at the time.
We never used to let Kenya outside, but she's getting cranky in her old
age
and has started pissing on the carpets (and there's nothing physically
wrong
with her), so we let her go outside - something she's been wanting for
years. I just never thought she'd do so well at murdering (and consuming)
the local wildlife. So far she's gotten two shrews, one mouse, two
chipmunks, one sparrow and now two squirrels. I shudder to think how many
she's hasn't left at the back door.
We had a neighbor who had an impressive pet mouse - which met its demise
one
night a few years ago when we were just parking. One of the neighborhood
cats
went streaking across the driveway and *chomp!* seconds later, was
dragging it
off to dinner...of course, our two would have looked at us and asked
"we're
supposed to eat *that*?!?".)
I can't believe my cat eats them head first! Gak!
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
.
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| User: "The Chief Instigator" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
23 Oct 2007 11:37:15 AM |
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"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
"The Chief Instigator" <patrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:szkr6jmwfqa.fsf@eris.io.com...
"Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> writes:
[...]
We never used to let Kenya outside, but she's getting cranky in her old age
and has started pissing on the carpets (and there's nothing physically
wrong with her), so we let her go outside - something she's been wanting
for years. I just never thought she'd do so well at murdering (and
consuming) the local wildlife. So far she's gotten two shrews, one mouse,
two chipmunks, one sparrow and now two squirrels. I shudder to think how
many she's hasn't left at the back door.
We had a neighbor who had an impressive pet mouse - which met its demise
one night a few years ago when we were just parking. One of the
neighborhood cats went streaking across the driveway and *chomp!* seconds
later, was dragging it off to dinner...of course, our two would have looked
at us and asked "we're supposed to eat *that*?!?".)
I can't believe my cat eats them head first! Gak!
Maybe she's into brains? ;-)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2007-08 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Houston 6, San Antonio 5 (SO) (October 19)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 27 at San Antonio, 7:05
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: A religion atheist can follow is in the bible. |
24 Oct 2007 09 | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
