| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Mekkala" |
| Date: |
12 Aug 2003 09:35:10 AM |
| Object: |
A research survey -- please take the time for this |
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
B: Had religious visions?
C: Seen a ghost?
D: Seen a UFO?
E: Seen bigfoot?
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
C: Believe in ghosts?
D: Believe in UFOs?
E: Believe in bigfoot?
F: Believe in luck?
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
A: I would not believe it under any circumstances whatsoever.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
D: I would believe it if ___ of my friends told me about it, out of ___
groups of friends independently experiencing the phenomenon.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
A: I would decide whether it is a physical or metaphysical phenomenon
based on whether it's like other phenomena I've seen before, and whether
I believe the similar phenomena to be physical or metaphysical.
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
C: I would assume it to be metaphysical unless presented with evidence
to the contrary.
D: I would assume neither. It may be physical, it may be metaphysical.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
C: I sometimes deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
most of the time, new experiences I've had aren't much like other
experiences.
D: I don't think any experiences are really the same. Everything is
different, and everything needs to be dealt with in its own way.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
B: I don't particularly care why, I see something new, big deal, I've
seen lots of new things.
C: I wonder whether it might have metaphysical sources.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
B: I believe in God but I'm not superstitious (I don't believe in
ghosts, UFOs, or luck).
C: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.). I also believe in God as the
intelligent entity behind it all.
D: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.), but I don't believe in God. I
don't think any supernatural guiding force is necessary to explain
physical phenomena like the creation of the universe.
E: I think the jury's still out on God.
F: I think the jury's still out on metaphysical phenomena.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic and/or
mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the respondents
here will be atheists.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
|
|
| User: "August Pamplona" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 03:44:59 PM |
|
|
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93D562C6FC83DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms
that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that
UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
B: Had religious visions?
C: Seen a ghost?
D: Seen a UFO?
Who hasn't seen a UFO? Just the other day I saw one. I couldn't
identify whether it was a heron or an egret.
August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew. Your
writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You are jew."
-Lysis on m.f.w.
a.a. # 1811 apatriot #20 Eater of smut
To email replace 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
'cosmicaug'
[snip]
.
|
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|
|
| User: "Clayton Episode 1...The Farting Menace" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 09:00:46 PM |
|
|
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93D562C6FC83DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
As a child...yes.
B: Had religious visions?
No
C: Seen a ghost?
No
D: Seen a UFO?
An UNIDENTIFIED Flying Object...yes. When I was 4 my family was travelling
along a highway and we saw a large moving light in the sky. Although almost
30 years ago I still remember. Apparently there were about 60 other
sightings in that area that night. I don't know what it was, nor will I
ever be likely to.
E: Seen bigfoot?
No...the local version is called the Yowie...but I haven't see that either.
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
No.
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
No...luck is chance. Some people have more of it than others through pure
chance. If you flip a coin 50 times, according to the law of averages you
should get 25 heads and 25 tails. However it will rarely happen that you
actually get that exact result. Sometimes you will get more heads,
sometimes more tails. If you were to repeat the process 6 billions times,
sometimes you would get a very large imbalance in the ratio...it's even
possible..although not very probable..that you could get 50 heads or 50
tails. Well I look at luck like that. Most people get a balance between
"luck" and "bad luck"...not as mystical forces but as qualifications from
the relative viewpoint. But some people get an imbalance one way or the
other at various times....not because of some metaphysical force...just
because that's what happened. Of course unlike flipping a coin there isn't
a black and white head or tail...there are varying degrees of how extreme
the "luck" is...you may get lots of little bits of "bad luck" but one huge
piece of "good luck"....or some things can be both "good" and "bad" at the
same time. When it all comes down to it, rabbits feet and karma and
crossing your fingers doesn't affect what can or will happen to you. My
personal philosophy......***** HAPPENS!!
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
Yes.
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
Some of them.
C: Believe in ghosts?
Some of them.
D: Believe in UFOs?
Some of them.
E: Believe in bigfoot?
Some of them.
F: Believe in luck?
Yes.
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
Yes.
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
A: I would not believe it under any circumstances whatsoever.
Depends on how reliable the sources where, what evidence there is, how
closely it has been studied and what other explanations there are.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
I make my own decisions. If the scientific community is overwhelmingly
supportive of it, with good reason and evidence and it has been explained to
my satisfaction then I am more likely to accept it. I'm afraid it's hard to
say with such vague details of what you are talking about. I think that
what you are talking about is about as likely as the scientific community
coming forth and saying that "Mother Gooses' Fairy Tales" is a verified
scientific text....would you believe it if that happened...or is it an
absurd idea to think that it will happen?
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
No....many, many people "experience" lots of things that they quite
obviously didn't experience.
D: I would believe it if ___ of my friends told me about it, out of ___
groups of friends independently experiencing the phenomenon.
Takes a lot more than that to convince me of something.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
A: I would decide whether it is a physical or metaphysical phenomenon
based on whether it's like other phenomena I've seen before, and whether
I believe the similar phenomena to be physical or metaphysical.
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
Most likely this...hard to tell on such vague details.
C: I would assume it to be metaphysical unless presented with evidence
to the contrary.
D: I would assume neither. It may be physical, it may be metaphysical.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
This one.
C: I sometimes deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
most of the time, new experiences I've had aren't much like other
experiences.
D: I don't think any experiences are really the same. Everything is
different, and everything needs to be dealt with in its own way.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
Sometimes this one...
B: I don't particularly care why, I see something new, big deal, I've
seen lots of new things.
...sometimes this one.
C: I wonder whether it might have metaphysical sources.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
I'm afraid not all of those things are metaphysical...example UFO's are by
nature unidentified...and as I explained earlier "luck" is relevant to the
point of perception. Everything can be considered differently....so asking
a black and white position like this is unhelpful. However if I had to
choose I suppose this one is the closest to my personal position.
B: I believe in God but I'm not superstitious (I don't believe in
ghosts, UFOs, or luck).
C: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.). I also believe in God as the
intelligent entity behind it all.
D: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.), but I don't believe in God. I
don't think any supernatural guiding force is necessary to explain
physical phenomena like the creation of the universe.
E: I think the jury's still out on God.
F: I think the jury's still out on metaphysical phenomena.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic and/or
mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the respondents
here will be atheists.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
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| User: "Nakas" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 12:43:43 PM |
|
|
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93D562C6FC83DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
No
B: Had religious visions?
No
C: Seen a ghost?
No
D: Seen a UFO?
No
E: Seen bigfoot?
No
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
No
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
No
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
Yes
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
Yes
C: Believe in ghosts?
Don't know
D: Believe in UFOs?
Don't know
E: Believe in bigfoot?
Don't know.
F: Believe in luck?
Yes
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
Yes
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
A: I would not believe it under any circumstances whatsoever.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
D: I would believe it if ___ of my friends told me about it, out of ___
groups of friends independently experiencing the phenomenon.
B, 99.99%
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
A: I would decide whether it is a physical or metaphysical phenomenon
based on whether it's like other phenomena I've seen before, and whether
I believe the similar phenomena to be physical or metaphysical.
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
C: I would assume it to be metaphysical unless presented with evidence
to the contrary.
D: I would assume neither. It may be physical, it may be metaphysical.
B
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
C: I sometimes deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
most of the time, new experiences I've had aren't much like other
experiences.
D: I don't think any experiences are really the same. Everything is
different, and everything needs to be dealt with in its own way.
How about E, I deal with it based on my own good judgement, regardless of if
I've experienced something similar before.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
Yes
B: I don't particularly care why, I see something new, big deal, I've
seen lots of new things.
C: I wonder whether it might have metaphysical sources.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
Yes
B: I believe in God but I'm not superstitious (I don't believe in
ghosts, UFOs, or luck).
C: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.). I also believe in God as the
intelligent entity behind it all.
D: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.), but I don't believe in God. I
don't think any supernatural guiding force is necessary to explain
physical phenomena like the creation of the universe.
E: I think the jury's still out on God.
F: I think the jury's still out on metaphysical phenomena.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic and/or
mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the respondents
here will be atheists.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
|
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|
| User: "Maverick" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 01:15:06 PM |
|
|
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93D562C6FC83DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
No.
B: Had religious visions?
No.
C: Seen a ghost?
No.
D: Seen a UFO?
Well once, and it lasted a few seconds before I knew what it was and it
wasn't unidentified anymore.
E: Seen bigfoot?
No.
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
No.
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
If we're talking about luck as a force independent of subjective minds in
different situations, then no. Well, sure it can feel incredible, but it's
not a force of nature and it's quite easy to realize that.
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
Don't know.
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
Wouldn't think so.
C: Believe in ghosts?
Not the majority.
D: Believe in UFOs?
Don't know.
E: Believe in bigfoot?
Don't know.
F: Believe in luck?
Perhaps.
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
No.
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
A: I would not believe it under any circumstances whatsoever.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
D: I would believe it if ___ of my friends told me about it, out of ___
groups of friends independently experiencing the phenomenon.
B is close here, since I would like to see independent scientist groups
confirm the findings. The most important part is the evidence, which must be
convincing.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
A: I would decide whether it is a physical or metaphysical phenomenon
based on whether it's like other phenomena I've seen before, and whether
I believe the similar phenomena to be physical or metaphysical.
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
C: I would assume it to be metaphysical unless presented with evidence
to the contrary.
D: I would assume neither. It may be physical, it may be metaphysical.
B.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
C: I sometimes deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
most of the time, new experiences I've had aren't much like other
experiences.
D: I don't think any experiences are really the same. Everything is
different, and everything needs to be dealt with in its own way.
Probably B.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
B: I don't particularly care why, I see something new, big deal, I've
seen lots of new things.
C: I wonder whether it might have metaphysical sources.
A, to the best of my ability of course.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
B: I believe in God but I'm not superstitious (I don't believe in
ghosts, UFOs, or luck).
C: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.). I also believe in God as the
intelligent entity behind it all.
D: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.), but I don't believe in God. I
don't think any supernatural guiding force is necessary to explain
physical phenomena like the creation of the universe.
E: I think the jury's still out on God.
F: I think the jury's still out on metaphysical phenomena.
To have a feeling you're lucky is subjective, in respect to the person and
the situation for example. UFO's are hardly metaphysical. If they are flying
objects then they are quite real, if not, then they're something else...
still physical.
But my best answer is, I do not believe in God or supernatural things,
simply because I can hardly imagine something within our universe to be
supernatural. If it exists, then it should be a result of the properties of
our universe, and as natural as anything else.
.
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| User: "LeepinLizzzzards!" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 10:51:27 AM |
|
|
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93D562C6FC83DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
Nope...even when i tried it never happened.
B: Had religious visions?
Nope.
C: Seen a ghost?
Nope
D: Seen a UFO?
Nope...well not in person...but you know all those documentaries that show
what 'is' a UFO.
E: Seen bigfoot?
Nope
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
Nope...though that would be amazing!
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
Yes
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
Yes
C: Believe in ghosts?
YEs
D: Believe in UFOs?
Yes
E: Believe in bigfoot?
NO
F: Believe in luck?
Of course
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
Yes
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
A: I would not believe it under any circumstances whatsoever.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
D: I would believe it if ___ of my friends told me about it, out of ___
groups of friends independently experiencing the phenomenon.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
A: I would decide whether it is a physical or metaphysical phenomenon
based on whether it's like other phenomena I've seen before, and whether
I believe the similar phenomena to be physical or metaphysical.
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
C: I would assume it to be metaphysical unless presented with evidence
to the contrary.
D: I would assume neither. It may be physical, it may be metaphysical.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
C: I sometimes deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
most of the time, new experiences I've had aren't much like other
experiences.
D: I don't think any experiences are really the same. Everything is
different, and everything needs to be dealt with in its own way.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
B: I don't particularly care why, I see something new, big deal, I've
seen lots of new things.
C: I wonder whether it might have metaphysical sources.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
B: I believe in God but I'm not superstitious (I don't believe in
ghosts, UFOs, or luck).
C: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.). I also believe in God as the
intelligent entity behind it all.
D: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.), but I don't believe in God. I
don't think any supernatural guiding force is necessary to explain
physical phenomena like the creation of the universe.
E: I think the jury's still out on God.
F: I think the jury's still out on metaphysical phenomena.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic and/or
mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the respondents
here will be atheists.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Routerider" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 05:39:10 PM |
|
|
"Mekkala" <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93D562C6FC83DMekkala@199.45.49.11...
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
Yes, well I clasped my hands and prayed to god but I have no idea where my
prayer went.
B: Had religious visions?
When I was a child and had a fever of 105+ I saw a pair of glowing hands
above my door...I attribute this the fever and was not a real sign from god
so to speak.
C: Seen a ghost?
no
D: Seen a UFO?
no
E: Seen bigfoot?
no
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
no
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
Well, I'm not sure if this counts or not...but I had a dream one time that
ASU beat U. of Nebraska in football. I told this to my wife when I woke up
and we laughed [Nebraska regularly beats teams 60-3, at least at the time].
I read the Sunday paper and ASU shutout Nebraska in a blow out. I still to
this day find that odd....but it could simply be coincidence.
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
yes
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
yes
C: Believe in ghosts?
yes
D: Believe in UFOs?
no
E: Believe in bigfoot?
no
F: Believe in luck?
only in the sense of god "helping" you
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
yes
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of 20 people,
out of 100 groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
.
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|
|
|
| User: "xyzzy" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 06:09:47 PM |
|
|
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
D: Seen a UFO?
I suggest you either replace this with "flying saucer commandeered by
LGM" or put an explanation. Taken literally, a lot of (sane) people
have probably seen UFO's.
.
|
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|
| User: "LANkrypt0" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 12:38:47 PM |
|
|
Mekkala vandalized the alt.atheism bathroom wall with:
M> ----------------Start of survey-------------------------
M>
M> Part 1:
M> Have you ever:
M>
M> A: Talked to God?
No
M> B: Had religious visions?
No
M> C: Seen a ghost?
Yes
M> D: Seen a UFO?
Yes
M> E: Seen bigfoot?
No
M> F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
M> community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
M> mythical if they knew about it?
Yes
M> G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
M> is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
M> luck)?
Yes
M> Part 2:
M> Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
M> people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
M>
M> A: Believe in God?
Yes
M> B: Go to church (of any religion)?
No
M> C: Believe in ghosts?
Yes
M> D: Believe in UFOs?
Yes
M> E: Believe in bigfoot?
No
M> F: Believe in luck?
No
M> G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
Yes
M> Part 3:
M> Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
M> completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
M> experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
M> phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
M> metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
M> ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
M> whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
M> to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
M> blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
M> your beliefs):
M>
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than 75% of the world's scientific community.
M> Part 4:
M> Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
M> the option that best describes your treatment of it:
M>
D: I would assume neither. It may be physical, it may be metaphysical.
M> Part 5:
M> When you're confronted with a new experience:
M>
C: I sometimes deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
most of the time, new experiences I've had aren't much like other
experiences.
M> Part 6:
M> Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
M> phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
M>
B: I don't particularly care why, I see something new, big deal, I've
seen lots of new things.
M> Part 7:
M> Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
M> spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
M> you may pick up to two options.
D: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.), but I don't believe in God. I
don't think any supernatural guiding force is necessary to explain
physical phenomena like the creation of the universe.
M> -----------End of survey -- thank you--------
M>
M> By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic and/or
M> mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the respondents
M> here will be atheists.
M>
M> --
M> Mekkala, Atheist #2148
M> "When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
M> realized I was talking to myself!"
M> --Peter O'Toole.
M>
+=======+=+=======>
LANkrypt0 : aa#2118
"Waiting for your turn to speak
is not really listening."
postcount=$(($postcount+1))
http://tinyurl.com/ff8m
==========================+===>
.
|
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|
| User: "david asman" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 09:55:51 AM |
|
|
Mekkala wrote:
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
When I was younger I thought I was, does that count as a yes?
If so, yes. If not, no.
B: Had religious visions?
No.
C: Seen a ghost?
No.
D: Seen a UFO?
No.
E: Seen bigfoot?
No.
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
No.
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
No.
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
Yes.
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
No.
C: Believe in ghosts?
No.
D: Believe in UFOs?
No.
E: Believe in bigfoot?
No.
F: Believe in luck?
No.
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
No.
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
I'm not sure how I would answer this, I would go with C, with the blanks
being: 10,000 and 1,000. Although I'm not really certain of the nubers.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
Answer: B
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
Answer: A
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
Answer: A
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
Answer: A
Dave
.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic and/or
mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the respondents
here will be atheists.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mekkala" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 09:57:56 AM |
|
|
On 12 Aug 2003, david asman <dasman@wayne.edu> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:3F38FFF7.415A2EF7@wayne.edu:
Thanks dave.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized
I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
.
|
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|
|
| User: "MAYA" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
13 Aug 2003 03:27:05 AM |
|
|
Mekkala wrote:
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
No
B: Had religious visions?
No
C: Seen a ghost?
No
D: Seen a UFO?
No
E: Seen bigfoot?
No
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
No
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
No
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
Yes
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
Yes
C: Believe in ghosts?
No
D: Believe in UFOs?
No
E: Believe in bigfoot?
No
F: Believe in luck?
Yes
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
No
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic and/or
mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the respondents
here will be atheists.
--
MAYA
A #2152
***Nullum est iam dictum quod non dictum sit prius***
Nothing is said that hasn't been said before.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Graham Kennedy" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 11:32:08 AM |
|
|
Mekkala wrote:
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
Not that I'm aware of. I don't see how I could.
B: Had religious visions?
No.
C: Seen a ghost?
No.
D: Seen a UFO?
No.
E: Seen bigfoot?
No.
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
No. And if they knew about it, how could they consider it mythical?
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
No.
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
I don't know, I haven't asked most of them.
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
No.
C: Believe in ghosts?
Not that I know of.
D: Believe in UFOs?
Not that I know of.
E: Believe in bigfoot?
Not that I know of.
F: Believe in luck?
Not that I know of.
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
No.
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
A: I would not believe it under any circumstances whatsoever.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
D: I would believe it if ___ of my friends told me about it, out of ___
groups of friends independently experiencing the phenomenon.
None of the above.
I would believe in it if I thought there was convincing
evidence for it.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
A: I would decide whether it is a physical or metaphysical phenomenon
based on whether it's like other phenomena I've seen before, and whether
I believe the similar phenomena to be physical or metaphysical.
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
C: I would assume it to be metaphysical unless presented with evidence
to the contrary.
D: I would assume neither. It may be physical, it may be metaphysical.
Not sure what you mean.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
C: I sometimes deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
most of the time, new experiences I've had aren't much like other
experiences.
Any of A B or C, depending on the circumstances.
D: I don't think any experiences are really the same. Everything is
different, and everything needs to be dealt with in its own way.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
Yes.
B: I don't particularly care why, I see something new, big deal, I've
seen lots of new things.
C: I wonder whether it might have metaphysical sources.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
Yes.
B: I believe in God but I'm not superstitious (I don't believe in
ghosts, UFOs, or luck).
C: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.). I also believe in God as the
intelligent entity behind it all.
D: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities and/or
phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.), but I don't believe in God. I
don't think any supernatural guiding force is necessary to explain
physical phenomena like the creation of the universe.
E: I think the jury's still out on God.
On some of them, yes.
F: I think the jury's still out on metaphysical phenomena.
Not sure.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic and/or
mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the respondents
here will be atheists.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and author, Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mekkala" |
|
| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 12:10:43 PM |
|
|
On 12 Aug 2003, Graham Kennedy <graham@ditl.org> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:bhb4q6$co9$1@hercules.btinternet.com:
Mekkala wrote:
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that
is either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in
terms that human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you
believe that UFOs exist and are just highly advanced technology, they
qualify as metaphysical because science has no way to describe the
phenomenon, since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific
inquiry ever demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God"
describes an intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the
universe and/or had a major role in the creation and development of
the universe. So, here goes, and thanks for taking the time for
this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
Not that I'm aware of. I don't see how I could.
B: Had religious visions?
No.
C: Seen a ghost?
No.
D: Seen a UFO?
No.
E: Seen bigfoot?
No.
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
No. And if they knew about it, how could they consider it mythical?
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck
(that is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical
force of luck)?
No.
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
I don't know, I haven't asked most of them.
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
No.
C: Believe in ghosts?
Not that I know of.
D: Believe in UFOs?
Not that I know of.
E: Believe in bigfoot?
Not that I know of.
F: Believe in luck?
Not that I know of.
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
No.
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a
phenomenon completely outside of your experience, that you personally
have never experienced or been close to someone who has experienced
it. The phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but
must be metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike
anything you've ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE
NOT experienced, so whether or not you would believe it if you
yourself saw it is irrelevant to the question. Pick the best of the
following options and fill in the blanks (if none of them describes
your position, pick the closest to your beliefs):
A: I would not believe it under any circumstances whatsoever.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by
more than ___% of the world's scientific community.
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
D: I would believe it if ___ of my friends told me about it, out of
___ groups of friends independently experiencing the phenomenon.
None of the above.
I would believe in it if I thought there was convincing
evidence for it.
What constitutes convincing evidence? That is, we're talking about a
phenomenon that you've never seen, and you have not personally seen any
of the evidence. If it's convincing enough to persuade the world's
scientific community, would that convince you? And how much of the
world's scientific community would have to accept it before you'd be
convinced?
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
A: I would decide whether it is a physical or metaphysical phenomenon
based on whether it's like other phenomena I've seen before, and
whether I believe the similar phenomena to be physical or
metaphysical.
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
C: I would assume it to be metaphysical unless presented with
evidence to the contrary.
D: I would assume neither. It may be physical, it may be
metaphysical.
Not sure what you mean.
Maybe I should have been clearer. You experience a phenomenon you've
never heard of. In determining whether it is a physical or metaphysical
phenomenon, would you compare it to other, known phenomena, would you
assume it to be physical, would you assume it to be metaphysical, or
would you leave your options open and simply store the phenomenon away
until you think you have reason to form an opinion on whether it's
physical or metaphysical?
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
C: I sometimes deal with it based on similar experiences I've had,
but most of the time, new experiences I've had aren't much like other
experiences.
Any of A B or C, depending on the circumstances.
Let me clarify. When you see a phenomenon you've never before
encountered, you could compare it to similar phenomena whose nature you
have an idea of, or you could treat it as something unrelated to
anything else you've ever experienced. If you pick A, you're saying you
nearly always file it away as a "type" of phenomenon with which you are
familiar, even if that precise phenomenon is outside of your experience.
If you pick B, you usually file it away under a "type", but sometimes a
new phenomenon fits no type. If you pick C, you sometimes file it away
under a "type", but new phenomena usually fit no type. If you pick D,
new phenomena almost never fit a "type" in your mind -- each new
phenomenon you experience is in its own class and must be dealt with
accordingly.
D: I don't think any experiences are really the same. Everything is
different, and everything needs to be dealt with in its own way.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
Yes.
B: I don't particularly care why, I see something new, big deal, I've
seen lots of new things.
C: I wonder whether it might have metaphysical sources.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes
your spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your
beliefs, you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
Yes.
B: I believe in God but I'm not superstitious (I don't believe in
ghosts, UFOs, or luck).
C: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities
and/or phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.). I also believe in God as
the intelligent entity behind it all.
D: I think the world around us is full of metaphysical entities
and/or phenomena (ghosts, UFOs, luck, etc.), but I don't believe in
God. I don't think any supernatural guiding force is necessary to
explain physical phenomena like the creation of the universe.
E: I think the jury's still out on God.
On some of them, yes.
On some of what?
F: I think the jury's still out on metaphysical phenomena.
Not sure.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
By the way, I'd also like to get the names of some large theistic
and/or mystic newsgroups that I can post this at, since most of the
respondents here will be atheists.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
13 Aug 2003 09:30:20 AM |
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On 12 Aug 2003, "MarkA" <manthony@stopspam.net> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:pan.2003.08.12.21.31.51.621099@stopspam.net:
Thanks Mark. I'd like to comment on a couple of things.
<snip>
A: I deal with it based on similar experiences I've had.
A. This is the way the human brain works.
Ah! You mean this is the way that *your* brain works, and the brains of
many people -- but, although the theistic groups I've posted this at
have been less than satisfactory in their response count, I've given it
to a couple of theist friends. You would be surprised that there are,
indeed, people who cannot group phenomena by types and make educated
guesses about them based on their similarity to other phenomena.
<snip>
If you think there is any reliability to believing in things because
they "seem" right, you are a poor student of history. The only
reliable way to tell if something is true is to test it.
Oh, come now. I'm sure you've seen things I've posted, and realize that
I'm both completely atheist and completely dedicated to science and
scientific inquiry. Of course I realize that believing in things
because they "seem" right is an unreliable method of developing a
worldview. If it seems that my questions accept it as a valid method,
it is only because I don't wish to seem biased, since if I phrased the
question to imply that there is something wrong with such belief, people
who actually do that may not answer entirely accurately.
On the other hand, having a certain trust in the abilities of experts in
the field is quite a reliable way to determine the truth of something, I
think, so long as you don't make the mistake of listening to one or two
crackpots over everyone else. In fact, that's often the *only* way to
determine the truth of something, since many of the things you accept as
fact you could never test. For example, can you, personally, ever test
the existence of muons? But, you do believe they exist, right? And
why? Because the world's particle physicists have tested their
existence and tell us that they do exist. We, who are not so well-
versed in the field of particle physics, take their word for it since we
have a certain trust in their abilities.
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly
realized I was talking to myself!"
--Peter O'Toole.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 12:41:11 PM |
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:35:10 GMT, Mekkala
<joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> in news message
<Xns93D562C6FC83DMekkala@199.45.49.11> wrote:
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date. Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real. "God" describes an
intelligent, eternal (uncreated) being who created the universe and/or
had a major role in the creation and development of the universe. So,
here goes, and thanks for taking the time for this!
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
Yes, but he never talked back
C: Seen a ghost?
Yes, but I do not believe that the ghost represented anything outside
of my own imagination.
[-----]
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
Yes to the following
A: Believe in God?
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
D: Believe in UFOs?
F: Believe in luck?
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
[-----]
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
[-----]
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
[----]
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
[----]
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
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| User: "Mark Richardson" |
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| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
13 Aug 2003 12:18:58 AM |
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:35:10 GMT, Mekkala
<joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> wrote:
Ok, in the following survey, "metaphysical" describes anything that is
either outside the realm of science or cannot be described in terms that
human science has defined to date.
That's a rather odd definition of metaphysical -but Ill go along.
Thus, even if you believe that UFOs
exist and are just highly advanced technology, they qualify as
metaphysical because science has no way to describe the phenomenon,
Why?
If UFOs exist then science most certainly could study/describe them.
"Hasn't been discovered yet" does not mean "can never be discovered".
If UFO's exist and are technological devices built by extraterrestrial
life forms then they are certainly physical.
since we know nothing about it, nor has scientific inquiry ever
demonstrated that UFO phenomena are real.
Doesn't matter.
IF they exist they are physical.
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
I tried once - sort of a dare.
Nobody talked back.
No to all the rest.
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
Mixture - parents no, friends, relatives, yes.
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
No.
C: Believe in ghosts?
No.
D: Believe in UFOs?
Yes.
E: Believe in bigfoot?
No.
F: Believe in luck?
No.
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
Not overly - but it always happens to some extent.
My parents where not overly superstitious people - who would claim to
be not at all superstitious.
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
None of the answers really suits, but B if I must choose.
If 99% of the worlds scientist believed it I hope I still might
disbelieve from my own reasoning.
If 99% of the worlds scientists disbelieved I hope I still might
believe from my own reasoning.
A true freethinker wouldn't like any of your choices.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary.
B is closest.
Part 5:
When you're confronted with a new experience:
B: I usually deal with it based on similar experiences I've had, but
occasionally new experiences aren't much like other experiences.
I think B covers it.
Part 6:
Pick the answer that best applies to you. When you encounter a new
phenomenon, completely outside of your experience:
A: I imagine the scientific reasons behind it.
C: I wonder whether it might have metaphysical sources.
Both A and C.
Part 7:
Which ONE OR TWO of these statements would you say *best* describes your
spiritual position? Remember, if more than one describes your beliefs,
you may pick up to two options.
A: I believe in nothing "metaphysical" (ghosts, UFOs, luck, God)
whatsoever.
F: I think the jury's still out on metaphysical phenomena.
A and F.
-----------End of survey -- thank you--------
--
Mark Richardson mDOTrichardsonATutasDOTeduDOTau
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
(Sarcastic Middle aged Atheists with a Sense of Humour)
-----------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Jim07D3" |
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| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
13 Aug 2003 12:31:54 AM |
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Mark Richardson <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> said:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:35:10 GMT, Mekkala
....
D: Believe in UFOs?
Yes.
Is it noteworthy to believe in the existence of flying things that are
not identified other than as flying things?
Jim07D3
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| User: "Jim07D3" |
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| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
13 Aug 2003 06:05:34 AM |
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Mark Richardson <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> said:
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 05:31:54 GMT, Jim07D3 <Jim07D3@nospam.net> wrote:
Mark Richardson <mark.richardson@die.spammers.die> said:
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:35:10 GMT, Mekkala
...
D: Believe in UFOs?
Yes.
Is it noteworthy to believe in the existence of flying things that are
not identified other than as flying things?
I think I was trying to answer the "spirit" of the question - which
although not stated clearly is that (at least some) UFO's are space
vehicles for technologically advanced aliens.
I wondered what I should answer for this one - but my parents and my
friends at school etc where in the majority at least believers in the
possibility if not the actuality of visitations by aliens.
Both my parents where skeptical that all the claimed sightings could
be put down to weather balloons or venus or simple hysteria for
example.
So instead of writing an essay, I decided to say "Yes".
....
Thanks. I wasn't making a cheap shot, I wondered about what exactly
the question meant and what your answer meant. And that is because I
tend to disagree with you on this question, and this is a rare event.
So, I wanted to enter cautiously;-)
I believe life exists elsewhere in the universe, in fact, that it is
prolific in terms of absolute numbers of planets on which life has
arisen. Like here, it rises and falls, rises and falls. I don't know
if it has ever reached the level where it has had the technology,
wherewithal and desire to send a probe to another planet, but I
strongly doubt it, for the following reasons.
I think it is logically possible and metaphysically possible (i.e
could be possible if the laws of nature were remarkably different than
we now think they are) but I lack belief that it is
physico-practically possible given our laws of nature as we know them.
If it is thusly possible, I believe we would have clear evidence of
past visits and contact, so our history argues against it. Further,
the history of the earth suggests that advanced species and human
civilizations are rendered serious setbacks including extinction from
time to time, and there is no reason to think this has not been a
limiting factor elsewhere.
The most likely scenario for evidence appearing on earth of an ET
civilization is a visitation, probably accidentally, by a probe or
debris (space junk) from somewhere -- rather like some that we sent
extra-solar system, or some related junk.* Given the numbers of
planets on which life has likely formed, if there were no constraining
factor, so many would advanced to at least our level, and many of them
hundreds of thousands of years earlier, that we would have some
evidence. So if ET civilizations rise and fall, there have been none,
IMO, close enough to us and with the means/desire to visit other
planets. An implication is that we will not do this, either.
So, My conclusion is that were are not alone, but we are effectively
alone.
*As for Pioneer and Voyager:
http://spaceprojects.arc.nasa.gov/Space_Projects/pioneer/PNhome.html
"(On 17 February 1998, Voyager 1's heliocentric radial distance
equaled Pioneer 10 at 69.4 AU and thereafter exceeded Pioneer 10 at
the rate of 1.02 AU per year.) ... Pioneer 10 will continue to coast
silently as a ghost ship through deep space into interstellar space,
heading generally for the red star Aldebaran, which forms the eye of
Taurus (The Bull). Aldebaran is about 68 light years away and it will
take Pioneer over 2 million years to reach it.."
THis means it would take over 150,000 years to reach our nearest
neighboring star. Going intentionally to one that has a planet seems
not to be something that would attract economic support here, or
perhaps on any planet. Space is mostly space, after all.
Jim07D3
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: A research survey -- please take the time for this |
12 Aug 2003 05:03:30 PM |
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:35:10 GMT, a wanderer, known to us only as
Mekkala <joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> warmed at our fire and
told this tale:
----------------Start of survey-------------------------
Part 1:
Have you ever:
A: Talked to God?
No
B: Had religious visions?
No.
C: Seen a ghost?
Yes.
D: Seen a UFO?
By this, do you mean "something I cosider to be a parnormal object in
the sky? I've seen lots of things flying I couldn't identify, but
never anything meeting the common critera for "UFO"
E: Seen bigfoot?
No.
F: Seen or talked to any entity and/or phenomenon that the scientific
community in general considers mythical or would most likely consider
mythical if they knew about it?
No.
G: Had an experience that you would describe as good or bad luck (that
is, affected not so much by natural forces as by a metaphysical force of
luck)?
Qualified yes. There have been occassions where serendipity has been
so odd it has given me pause. (I once found two tickets to a Rolling
Stones concert stuck in the bushes in a park.. the day of the show.)
Part 2:
Did the majority of your parents, teachers, relatives, and/or other
people you look up to (this includes, for example, friends):
A: Believe in God?
Probably. Inside my family we were lapsed
Catholics/Agnostics/Atheists. Other people, I never thought to
discuss it much.
B: Go to church (of any religion)?
No.
C: Believe in ghosts?
Majority? I'd have to say no.
D: Believe in UFOs?
No.
E: Believe in bigfoot?
No.
F: Believe in luck?
Really can't answer. The idea never has seriously come up.
G: Impress their beliefs upon you at a young age?
Yes.
Part 3:
Imagine a situation in which you hear of and/or read about a phenomenon
completely outside of your experience, that you personally have never
experienced or been close to someone who has experienced it. The
phenomenon may or may not have supernatural appearance, but must be
metaphysical in the sense that it's completely unlike anything you've
ever experienced. This is a phenomenon that YOU HAVE NOT experienced, so
whether or not you would believe it if you yourself saw it is irrelevant
to the question. Pick the best of the following options and fill in the
blanks (if none of them describes your position, pick the closest to
your beliefs):
A: I would not believe it under any circumstances whatsoever.
B: I would believe it only after it's been accepted and studied by more
than ___% of the world's scientific community.
C: I would believe it if it were reported by a minimum of ___ people,
out of ___ groups independently experiencing the phenomenon.
D: I would believe it if ___ of my friends told me about it, out of ___
groups of friends independently experiencing the phenomenon.
B, 75% of the scientists in the appropriate field.
Part 4:
Imagine a situation in which you're confronted by something new. Pick
the option that best describes your treatment of it:
A: I would decide whether it is a physical or metaphysical phenomenon
based on whether it's like other phenomena I've seen before, and whether
I believe the similar phenomena to be physical or metaphysical.
B: I would assume it to be physical unless presented with evidence to
the contrary. | |
