Religions > Atheism > A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"sar3" |
| Date: |
07 Jan 2007 10:48:43 AM |
| Object: |
A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
1999
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned (North
Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the scientific story I was
taught from seeing consciousness as the end product of evolution to seeing
consciousness as the source of evolution. In other words, the universe, to
me, is fundamentally Consciousness -- alive, aware and intelligent. This
Consciousness is non-local, i.e. everywhere, and is what different
cultures variously personify as God, under many names. It is also what
physicists now call "zero point energy" -- the infinite energy existing at
every point in space. They are discovering that it is conscious and that
it non-locally records all information ever produced in the universe. This
Conscious non-timespace energy is vaster than our local universe. It can
and does transmute itself into electromagnetic energy, and, in turn,
matter, in the creation of universes such as ours, though it can also
create itself into other pure energy patterns in a myriad ways (they
include angelic realms, for example, and all the "worlds" we exist in
between lives, and eternally).
This All-That-Is God Source is perceived as I-Am from the perspective of
the local consciousness created in beings such as you and me, when we go
into meditation, expanding our little consciousness into the Great One we
are all part of. In this state we not only perceive union with God, we
transcend our local selves such that we recognize ourselves as God.
Our universe appears to be a learning universe. I like to say its basic
principle is "Anything that can happen, will happen," and so it learns
what works well and what doesn't. Evolution is an improvisational dance,
keeping the steps that work and changing those that don't. As I cannot
separate God-as-Cosmic-Consciousness from God-transmuting-into-material-
universes, I believe our learning universe implies a learning God -- God
learning to know the nature of Self through exploring its possibilities
and learning to reflect on that Self. Exactly as we, God's human
reflections, learn to do! In other words, Cosmic Consciousness begins as
Unity and divides into Complexity a stage at a time -- at least from our
human linear time perspective -- as it embodies itself in vast varieties
of energetic and material forms. In non-timespace, which physics now knows
to be the more fundamental nature of the universe, all possibilities exist
together in complexity inconceivable to us humans.
I believe we exist as non-physical beings which incarnate intentionally,
according to particular intentions for learning in each life, but that our
"higher selves" are present non-physically throughout our lives. We weave
our birth-to-death lifelines through the endless possibilities by the
choices we make from moment to moment, each constraining the succeeding
choices. From the perspective of non-timespace, all our lives together are
like a kind of lotus flower, with each life one petal, one way of playing
out a theme chosen by our soul entity or higher self. Some of our
incarnations may be simultaneous in the linear timeframe, others are a
historical sequence. Each "petal" is in soul communication with each
other; thus our many lives can influence each other. Recall that early
Christianity included the belief in reincarnation; I believe the Church
changed that to gain more control over people's lives, just as Jesus told
us we could reach God directly and the Church made priests not assistants
but necessary channels to God.
All nature is thus conscious in my worldview, and all of it has access to
non-timespace; all of it is an aspect of God. The acorn knows the oak tree
it will become. Only we humans of western culture have played the game of
cutting ourselves off from the Great Conversation that our very cells can
still hear! Soils, waters, organisms, ecosystems, Earth, even DNA itself,
all know their composition and that of the Whole as the cells of our
bodies know each other and our whole bodies, behaving intelligently to
maintain themselves and that whole (that's why our bodies work!).
Our human task now is to wake up and recognize ourselves as parts or
aspects of God-as-Nature and behave accordingly. All are One, all harm
harms each of us, all blessings bless each of us. What a guideline for
choice! The ancients knew it and taught it. But God, through us, is trying
out the most dangerous game of all -- the game of truly forgetting our
nature. A great risk, but it had to be done to try all possibilities!
.... I pray that scientists, who have been given the role of priesthood --
the right to tell us "how things are" -- will soon officially recognize
that there is one alive, intelligent universe in which spirit and matter
are not separable. I pray the indigenous people who never separated
science and spirituality will be honored for that. It is time for the true
communion which alone can save our species and all others, which alone can
bring about the perfectly possible world we all dream of -- a world
expressing this understanding of ourselves as-the creative edge of God!
.
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| User: "Josef Balluch" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
07 Jan 2007 11:19:54 AM |
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In article <45a1246a$0$97223$892e7fe2
@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>, x@x.x says...
....
It is also what
physicists now call "zero point energy" -- the infinite energy existing at
every point in space. They are discovering that it is conscious ...
References?
Regards,
Josef
Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the
occurrence of the improbable.
-- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "David Canzi -- non-mailable" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
07 Jan 2007 05:18:56 PM |
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In article <45a1246a$0$97223$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,
sar3 <x@x.x> wrote:
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
1999
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned (North
Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the scientific story I was
taught from seeing consciousness as the end product of evolution ...
Many people like to believe proudly that we humans, and the
abilities we have attained, are the end product of evolution.
They wouldn't want to believe that if they really understood
what it means. The only end product of evolution is the last
generation of a population before it goes extinct. Everything
else is merely transitional.
Let us hope that we're merely transitional.
--
David Canzi | Eternal truths come and go. |
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
07 Jan 2007 02:36:10 PM |
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It's up to theists to so0p that. It's their concept not ours. Reality
ain't going to compromise to fit their beliefs.
On 07 Jan 2007 16:48:43 GMT, sar3 <x@x.x> wrote:
... I pray that scientists, who have been given the role of priesthood --
What a remarkably arrogant, stupid thing to say.
the right to tell us "how things are" -- will soon officially recognize
that there is one alive, intelligent universe in which spirit and matter
So demonstrate it, moron. Show us what leads to that conclusion,
objectively.
are not separable. I pray the indigenous people who never separated
science and spirituality will be honored for that. It is time for the true
Don't be so frikking stupid.
communion which alone can save our species and all others, which alone can
bring about the perfectly possible world we all dream of -- a world
expressing this understanding of ourselves as-the creative edge of God!
Leave your pretend friend out of discussions about reality, moron.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
11 Jan 2007 06:17:02 PM |
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On 07 Jan 2007 16:48:43 GMT, sar3 <x@x.x> wrote in alt.atheism
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
1999
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned (North
Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the scientific story I was
taught from seeing consciousness as the end product of evolution to seeing
consciousness as the source of evolution. In other words, the universe, to
me, is fundamentally Consciousness -- alive, aware and intelligent. This
Consciousness is non-local, i.e. everywhere, and is what different
cultures variously personify as God, under many names. It is also what
physicists now call "zero point energy" -- the infinite energy existing at
every point in space. They are discovering that it is conscious and that
it non-locally records all information ever produced in the universe.
[snip *****]
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
07 Jan 2007 05:54:20 PM |
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On 07 Jan 2007 16:48:43 GMT, sar3 <x@x.x> wrote:
- Refer: <45a1246a$0$97223$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
1999
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned (North
Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the scientific story I was
taught from seeing consciousness as the end product of evolution to seeing
consciousness as the source of evolution. In other words, the universe, to
me, is fundamentally Consciousness -- alive, aware and intelligent. This
Consciousness is non-local, i.e. everywhere, and is what different
cultures variously personify as God, under many names.
:
What a load of utter bollocks!
And that is my official scientific analysis of the question-begging
inane tripe.
It is embarassing to be a fellow scientist, when facile lightweights
like this spout off from their delusion addled "brains".
PhD indeed!
In "Chiropractic Homeopathic Perpetual Motion", no doubt.
--
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
07 Jan 2007 11:53:53 PM |
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Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
1999
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned
(North Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the
scientific story I was taught from seeing consciousness as the end
product of evolution to seeing consciousness as the source of
evolution. In other words, the universe, to me, is fundamentally
Consciousness -- alive, aware and intelligent. This Consciousness is
non-local, i.e. everywhere, and is what different cultures variously
personify as God, under many names.
What a load of utter bollocks!
This is essentially what Mary Baker Eddy taught when she formed Christian
Science.
Oddly, she died. Had she been right and believed in what she wrote this
would not have happened.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
08 Jan 2007 03:47:35 AM |
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On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 05:53:53 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
- Refer: <R%koh.42936$wc5.14107@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
1999
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned
(North Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the
scientific story I was taught from seeing consciousness as the end
product of evolution to seeing consciousness as the source of
evolution. In other words, the universe, to me, is fundamentally
Consciousness -- alive, aware and intelligent. This Consciousness is
non-local, i.e. everywhere, and is what different cultures variously
personify as God, under many names.
What a load of utter bollocks!
This is essentially what Mary Baker Eddy taught when she formed Christian
Science.
Oddly, she died. Had she been right and believed in what she wrote this
would not have happened.
Did she die rich, like L. Ron?
--
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
08 Jan 2007 07:38:16 PM |
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Michael Gray wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 05:53:53 GMT, "Mike Painter"
<mddotpainter@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
- Refer: <R%koh.42936$wc5.14107@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
1999
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned
(North Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the
scientific story I was taught from seeing consciousness as the end
product of evolution to seeing consciousness as the source of
evolution. In other words, the universe, to me, is fundamentally
Consciousness -- alive, aware and intelligent. This Consciousness
is non-local, i.e. everywhere, and is what different cultures
variously personify as God, under many names.
What a load of utter bollocks!
This is essentially what Mary Baker Eddy taught when she formed
Christian Science.
Oddly, she died. Had she been right and believed in what she wrote
this would not have happened.
Did she die rich, like L. Ron?
She died in 1919 and left 2.5 million to her church, so she did all right.
.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
07 Jan 2007 11:52:20 AM |
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On 07 Jan 2007 16:48:43 GMT, sar3 <x@x.x> wrote:
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned (North
Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the scientific story I was
taught from seeing consciousness as the end product of evolution to seeing
consciousness as the source of evolution. In other words, the universe, to
me, is fundamentally Consciousness -- alive, aware and intelligent. This
Consciousness is non-local, i.e. everywhere, and is what different
cultures variously personify as God, under many names. It is also what
physicists now call "zero point energy" -- the infinite energy existing at
every point in space. They are discovering that it is conscious and that
it non-locally records all information ever produced in the universe. This
Conscious non-timespace energy is vaster than our local universe. It can
and does transmute itself into electromagnetic energy, and, in turn,
matter, in the creation of universes such as ours, though it can also
create itself into other pure energy patterns in a myriad ways (they
include angelic realms, for example, and all the "worlds" we exist in
between lives, and eternally).
Citations to peer-reviewed journals supporting any of this, please...?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
08 Jan 2007 12:32:32 AM |
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In article <voc2q2hncarom75lhlbcfl4ihemss8hi9g@4ax.com>,
raven1 <quoththeraven@nevermore.com> wrote:
On 07 Jan 2007 16:48:43 GMT, sar3 <x@x.x> wrote:
In my dialog with Willis Harman, published as Biology Revisioned (North
Atlantic Publishers, Berkeley 1998), I reversed the scientific story I was
taught from seeing consciousness as the end product of evolution to seeing
consciousness as the source of evolution. In other words, the universe, to
me, is fundamentally Consciousness -- alive, aware and intelligent. This
Consciousness is non-local, i.e. everywhere, and is what different
cultures variously personify as God, under many names. It is also what
physicists now call "zero point energy" -- the infinite energy existing at
every point in space. They are discovering that it is conscious and that
it non-locally records all information ever produced in the universe. This
Conscious non-timespace energy is vaster than our local universe. It can
and does transmute itself into electromagnetic energy, and, in turn,
matter, in the creation of universes such as ours, though it can also
create itself into other pure energy patterns in a myriad ways (they
include angelic realms, for example, and all the "worlds" we exist in
between lives, and eternally).
Citations to peer-reviewed journals supporting any of this, please...?
I wouldn't hold my breath.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
08 Jan 2007 08:40:24 AM |
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sar3 wrote:
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
lost the plot.
Consiousness is demonstrably and as a matter of scientific fact an
effect, and not a cause, of material reality. Indeed, without
non-conscious apparatus, consciousness has absolutely no material
effect on reality. You could ask Christopher Reeve this, only
he's dead now.
.
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| User: "Nashton" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
09 Jan 2007 09:43:19 AM |
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Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister wrote:
sar3 wrote:
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
lost the plot.
Consiousness is demonstrably and as a matter of scientific fact an
effect, and not a cause, of material reality.
Material reality can also be construed as being a result of
consciousness. Without an observer, there is no perception of the
"material" world.
Indeed, without
non-conscious apparatus, consciousness has absolutely no material
effect on reality. You could ask Christopher Reeve this, only
he's dead now.
What does motor control have anything to do with consciousness in this
particular context?
--
Nicolas
--
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| User: "Richard" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
09 Jan 2007 09:46:46 PM |
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Reactive consciousness is an effect. Proactive consciousness is a
cause. And to be the cause of causes in your life is to be
Superconscious. Greek philosophy rules.
Response to:
Consiousness is demonstrably and as a matter of scientific fact an
effect, and not a cause, of material reality. Indeed, without
non-conscious apparatus, consciousness has absolutely no material
effect on reality. You could ask Christopher Reeve this, only
he's dead now.
.
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| User: "sar3" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
10 Jan 2007 11:12:12 AM |
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"Richard" <gemini4474@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1168400804.919059.183340@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
Greek philosophy rules.
But you're a JEHOVAH! 5000+ years old.
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| User: "Richard" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
10 Jan 2007 04:46:11 PM |
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Gee. Thanks for defining me. Limited minds need definitions.
sar3 wrote:
"Richard" <gemini4474@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1168400804.919059.183340@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
Greek philosophy rules.
But you're a JEHOVAH! 5000+ years old.
.
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| User: "sar3" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
10 Jan 2007 06:31:03 PM |
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"Richard" <gemini4474@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1168469171.274666.217720@p59g2000hsd.googlegroups.com:
Gee. Thanks for defining me. Limited minds need definitions.
You're welcome! At the meantime, keep hating 'muzzies'
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
08 Jan 2007 08:21:13 AM |
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sar3 wrote:
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
lost the plot.
Consiousness is demonstrably and as a matter of scientific fact an
effect, and not a cause, of material reality. Indeed, without
non-conscious apparatus. Consciousness has absolutely no material
effect on material reality. You could ask Christopher Reeve this, only
he's dead now.
.
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| User: "sar3" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
10 Jan 2007 11:01:23 AM |
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"Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister" <user13@heathens.org.uk> wrote
in news:1168266073.329265.141640@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com:
sar3 wrote:
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
lost the plot.
Consiousness is demonstrably and as a matter of scientific fact an
effect, and not a cause, of material reality. Indeed, without
non-conscious apparatus. Consciousness has absolutely no material
effect on material reality. You could ask Christopher Reeve this, only
he's dead now.
There is no such thing like 'cause and effect' in Quantum physics.
Time is symmetric at that fundamental level.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: A Scientist's Thoughts about Redefining our Concept of God |
08 Jan 2007 04:00:55 PM |
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On 8 Jan 2007 06:21:13 -0800, "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist
minister" <user13@heathens.org.uk> wrote:
- Refer: <1168266073.329265.141640@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com>
sar3 wrote:
Elisabet Sahtouris, Ph.D.
lost the plot.
Consiousness is demonstrably and as a matter of scientific fact an
effect, and not a cause, of material reality. Indeed, without
non-conscious apparatus. Consciousness has absolutely no material
effect on material reality.
Not true.
It has a minor effect on electric brain impulse patterns that are
detectable with sensitive equipment.
You could ask Christopher Reeve this, only
he's dead now.
--
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