A Statement from Ellen Johnson



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Larry Mundinger"
Date: 03 Nov 2004 02:20:27 PM
Object: A Statement from Ellen Johnson
AMERICAN ATHEISTS
A Statement from Ellen Johnson
What Happened?
George W. Bush won the presidential election on November 2. How did
he do it? How did he sway so many Americans to see him as a better
candidate than all the others and particularly John Kerry?
Part of the answer that Atheists need to examine addresses the
electorates concerns about the importance of “moral values.”
Religious conservatives are a strong political force in America because
they are well organized and well funded. Because of this they have been
able to define the sociopolitical agenda in America and a large part of
that concerns “moral values.”
Even with a lagging economy, an unjustified war on Iraq, fifty
million Americans without health insurance and more, the religious right
has successfully made “traditional moral values” a pressing political
issue. But when they talk about “moral values” they are not talking
about “morals” per se. When we think about morals, we think about
character. We think about things like not stealing and not killing; we
think about helping others and being good people. That is not what they
mean. When religious conservatives refer to “morality” they are talking
about sociopolitical issues like abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia,
stem-cell research and of course state-church separation issues and all
that encompasses like organized prayers in the public schools, the Ten
Commandments on public property, the teaching of evolution and
creationism in the public schools, the removal of the words “under God”
in the pledge of allegiance, etc.
Religious leaders use the term “morality” to advance their
“political” agendas in America. They helped the Bush campaign to
successfully paint their candidate as being stronger to the American
people on those “moral values” than John Kerry. According to CBS News,
“When voters were asked which of several issues mattered most in
deciding their vote, roughly equal numbers picked the Bush campaign's
main issues of moral values (22 percent) and terrorism (19 percent), as
picked the Kerry campaign’s main issues of economy/jobs (20 percent) and
Iraq (15 percent).”
Unfortunately, the leaders of the abortion, gay, feminist,
scientific and other progressive movements have failed to address the
root problem, which hinders their causes and that is religion. They will
not challenge religion or the religious for fear of alienating their
religious supporters. Eleven states in this election passed referendums
outlawing gay marriage. How did the gays allow that to happen? It
happened because the gays want to befriend the religious and work with
the religious in the hope of being accepted and ultimately change minds
that way. It is a good idea in theory but we have just seen how
successful it is in reality.
We Atheists have always been there to support their causes when it is
they who should have been supporting ours, for that support would
redound to their benefit. All too often liberal cause groups are
reluctant to accept our support for fear of appearing anti-religious.
One lesson from the November election, however, may be that until these
groups more openly embrace the support of millions of Atheists and other
"seculars' throughout the nation, they will be forever spinning their
political wheels. Religion is the problem and not the solution.
Religion has been the driving force behind the anti-choice laws, the
opposition to stem-cell research, the opposition to gay rights and
state-church separation. As long as scientific, feminist, gay and other
such organizations fail to address the root causes of their issues then
they will not make much progress. Gays, women, and scientists want it
both ways. They want to advance their progressive issues and not
challenge the threat to them, which is religion. We Atheists need to
tell these leaders that religion is the problem and it must be
addressed. We need to step off the defense bus and get on the
offensive.
Before I worked with American Atheists I was a big supporter and
worked with an organization called Zero Population Growth.
Overpopulation is an important issue in America and conservative
religious ideology is part of the cause of it. Unfortunately, ZPG like
many other “liberal” organizations refused to, and still refuses to
address this issue head-on. I don’t think they have ever been
successful because of it and so I left the organization and joined
American Atheists.
Some people call Atheism a “radical” idea and it is. Radical means
“root” and Atheism addresses the root cause of the issues we struggle
over in America. Maybe the election would have turned out differently
if we all had challenged the basic notions of theology, redefined the
issues in America and took back control of the discussion.
Don't get me wrong; I think that Atheists and other "godless
Americans" need to engage actively in the political process now more
than ever, and address issues of public policy. We must do so smartly
and intelligently, and demonstrate political savvy. Most important of
all, we need to be focused on issues, not personalities (a principle
often ignored in the heat of political campaigns). We need to come
across as not only principled, but also articulate, well informed and,
above all, well organized. The task facing us in the next two to four
years is huge.
I say: "Bring it on!"
-- Ellen Johnson, President
American Atheists
--
Larry Mundinger (aa#451)
American Atheists Internet Representative <irep @ atheists.org>
<http://www.atheists.org/> <http://www.americanatheist.org/>
<http://www.atheistviewpoint.tv/>
.

User: "kathryn"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 04 Nov 2004 02:46:50 AM
"Larry Mundinger" <see.below@signature.org> wrote in message
news:M2bid.263741$as2.44418@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

AMERICAN ATHEISTS


A Statement from Ellen Johnson

What Happened?

George W. Bush won the presidential election on November 2. How did
he do it? How did he sway so many Americans to see him as a better
candidate than all the others and particularly John Kerry?

Part of the answer that Atheists need to examine addresses the
electorates concerns about the importance of "moral values."
Religious conservatives are a strong political force in America because
they are well organized and well funded. Because of this they have been
able to define the sociopolitical agenda in America and a large part of
that concerns "moral values."

Even with a lagging economy, an unjustified war on Iraq, fifty
million Americans without health insurance and more, the religious right
has successfully made "traditional moral values" a pressing political
issue. But when they talk about "moral values" they are not talking
about "morals" per se. When we think about morals, we think about
character. We think about things like not stealing and not killing; we
think about helping others and being good people. That is not what they
mean. When religious conservatives refer to "morality" they are talking
about sociopolitical issues like abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia,
stem-cell research and of course state-church separation issues and all
that encompasses like organized prayers in the public schools, the Ten
Commandments on public property, the teaching of evolution and
creationism in the public schools, the removal of the words "under God"
in the pledge of allegiance, etc.

Religious leaders use the term "morality" to advance their
"political" agendas in America. They helped the Bush campaign to
successfully paint their candidate as being stronger to the American
people on those "moral values" than John Kerry. According to CBS News,
"When voters were asked which of several issues mattered most in
deciding their vote, roughly equal numbers picked the Bush campaign's
main issues of moral values (22 percent) and terrorism (19 percent), as
picked the Kerry campaign's main issues of economy/jobs (20 percent) and
Iraq (15 percent)."

Unfortunately, the leaders of the abortion, gay, feminist,
scientific and other progressive movements have failed to address the
root problem, which hinders their causes and that is religion. They will
not challenge religion or the religious for fear of alienating their
religious supporters. Eleven states in this election passed referendums
outlawing gay marriage. How did the gays allow that to happen? It
happened because the gays want to befriend the religious and work with
the religious in the hope of being accepted and ultimately change minds
that way. It is a good idea in theory but we have just seen how
successful it is in reality.

We Atheists have always been there to support their causes when it is
they who should have been supporting ours, for that support would
redound to their benefit. All too often liberal cause groups are
reluctant to accept our support for fear of appearing anti-religious.
One lesson from the November election, however, may be that until these
groups more openly embrace the support of millions of Atheists and other
"seculars' throughout the nation, they will be forever spinning their
political wheels. Religion is the problem and not the solution.
Religion has been the driving force behind the anti-choice laws, the
opposition to stem-cell research, the opposition to gay rights and
state-church separation. As long as scientific, feminist, gay and other
such organizations fail to address the root causes of their issues then
they will not make much progress. Gays, women, and scientists want it
both ways. They want to advance their progressive issues and not
challenge the threat to them, which is religion. We Atheists need to
tell these leaders that religion is the problem and it must be
addressed. We need to step off the defense bus and get on the
offensive.

Before I worked with American Atheists I was a big supporter and
worked with an organization called Zero Population Growth.
Overpopulation is an important issue in America and conservative
religious ideology is part of the cause of it. Unfortunately, ZPG like
many other "liberal" organizations refused to, and still refuses to
address this issue head-on. I don't think they have ever been
successful because of it and so I left the organization and joined
American Atheists.

Some people call Atheism a "radical" idea and it is. Radical means
"root" and Atheism addresses the root cause of the issues we struggle
over in America. Maybe the election would have turned out differently
if we all had challenged the basic notions of theology, redefined the
issues in America and took back control of the discussion.

Don't get me wrong; I think that Atheists and other "godless
Americans" need to engage actively in the political process now more
than ever, and address issues of public policy. We must do so smartly
and intelligently, and demonstrate political savvy. Most important of
all, we need to be focused on issues, not personalities (a principle
often ignored in the heat of political campaigns). We need to come
across as not only principled, but also articulate, well informed and,
above all, well organized. The task facing us in the next two to four
years is huge.

I say: "Bring it on!"

-- Ellen Johnson, President

American Atheists

--
Larry Mundinger (aa#451)

Obviously blantant lying isn't considered immoral then since Georgie has
done plenty of that!
.

User: "mick"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 03 Nov 2004 02:34:13 PM
Larry Mundinger wrote:

AMERICAN ATHEISTS


A Statement from Ellen Johnson

What Happened?

George W. Bush won the presidential election on November 2. How did
he do it? How did he sway so many Americans to see him as a better
candidate than all the others and particularly John Kerry?

Part of the answer that Atheists need to examine addresses the
electorates concerns about the importance of ?moral values.?
Religious conservatives are a strong political force in America because
they are well organized and well funded. Because of this they have been
able to define the sociopolitical agenda in America and a large part of
that concerns ?moral values.?

Even with a lagging economy, an unjustified war on Iraq, fifty
million Americans without health insurance and more, the religious right
has successfully made ?traditional moral values? a pressing political
issue. But when they talk about ?moral values? they are not talking
about ?morals? per se. When we think about morals, we think about
character. We think about things like not stealing and not killing; we
think about helping others and being good people. That is not what they
mean. When religious conservatives refer to ?morality? they are talking
about sociopolitical issues like abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia,
stem-cell research and of course state-church separation issues and all
that encompasses like organized prayers in the public schools, the Ten
Commandments on public property, the teaching of evolution and
creationism in the public schools, the removal of the words ?under God?
in the pledge of allegiance, etc.

Religious leaders use the term ?morality? to advance their
?political? agendas in America. They helped the Bush campaign to
successfully paint their candidate as being stronger to the American
people on those ?moral values? than John Kerry. According to CBS News,
?When voters were asked which of several issues mattered most in
deciding their vote, roughly equal numbers picked the Bush campaign's
main issues of moral values (22 percent) and terrorism (19 percent), as
picked the Kerry campaign?s main issues of economy/jobs (20 percent) and
Iraq (15 percent).?
I say: "Bring it on!"

-- Ellen Johnson, President

American Atheists

People normally turn to religion when they are afraid. I suspect that the
level of fear in America is very high these days. The media tends to play
on this fear. Events like 9/11 promote this fear and Bush emphasised these
fears all the way through his campaign.
The truth is that America is the most powerful nation in the world and has
no one to fear but itself..
Maybe that is a good reason to turn to God
postman
.
User: "Sean C"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 06 Nov 2004 11:04:10 PM
In article <41894ed6$0$534$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>, mick
<michael@spam.mcgarrydware.com> wrote:

People normally turn to religion when they are afraid. I suspect that the
level of fear in America is very high these days. The media tends to play
on this fear. Events like 9/11 promote this fear and Bush emphasised these
fears all the way through his campaign.

The truth is that America is the most powerful nation in the world and has
no one to fear but itself..
Maybe that is a good reason to turn to God

I think fear plays a big part in it. I know a few people who, to this
day, attend 9-11 support groups to deal with the anxiety and shock that
the attack caused them. I understand it was a traumatic event, and I
can really understand how someone who went through it or lost friends
or family might need a support group. But I guess at this point I can't
but help feel a certain amount of contempt for people who are so
ingnorant and blinded to the world around them that this event, of all
the horrific things that happen every year in this world, would shock
them. Shock them so much, in fact, they would throw their freedom at
the feet of a sadistic moron. 150,000 people had their limbs hacked off
in Sierra Leone and these people are traumatized by 9-11? Sometimes it
all just makes me want to cry.
Sean C
.

User: "stoney"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 08 Nov 2004 10:23:44 AM
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:34:13 +0000, mick
<michael@spam.mcgarrydware.com> wrote:

People normally turn to religion when they are afraid. I suspect that the
level of fear in America is very high these days. The media tends to play
on this fear. Events like 9/11 promote this fear and Bush emphasised these
fears all the way through his campaign.

The truth is that America is the most powerful nation in the world and has
no one to fear but itself..
Maybe that is a good reason to turn to God

What a fucking moron!
What's a g-o-d, *****?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 08 Nov 2004 10:31:25 AM
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:23:44 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:34:13 +0000, mick
<michael@spam.mcgarrydware.com> wrote:


People normally turn to religion when they are afraid. I suspect that the
level of fear in America is very high these days. The media tends to play
on this fear. Events like 9/11 promote this fear and Bush emphasised these
fears all the way through his campaign.

The truth is that America is the most powerful nation in the world and has
no one to fear but itself..
Maybe that is a good reason to turn to God


What a fucking moron!
What's a g-o-d, *****?

The morons are totally out of touch with reality.
When I still lived in England church leaders regularly made idiots of
themselves telling one of the least theist nations in Europe, that
people who grew out of believing in Santa Claus, needed to return to
Santa. Or was it God? Either way they were too stupid to grasp that
they were pretty much the same to their audience.
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 10 Nov 2004 11:34:24 AM
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:31:25 GMT, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:23:44 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:34:13 +0000, mick
<michael@spam.mcgarrydware.com> wrote:


People normally turn to religion when they are afraid. I suspect that the
level of fear in America is very high these days. The media tends to play
on this fear. Events like 9/11 promote this fear and Bush emphasised these
fears all the way through his campaign.

The truth is that America is the most powerful nation in the world and has
no one to fear but itself..
Maybe that is a good reason to turn to God


What a fucking moron!
What's a g-o-d, *****?


The morons are totally out of touch with reality.

Just like BushCo.

When I still lived in England church leaders regularly made idiots of
themselves telling one of the least theist nations in Europe, that
people who grew out of believing in Santa Claus, needed to return to
Santa. Or was it God? Either way they were too stupid to grasp that
they were pretty much the same to their audience.

Sadly.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.



User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 07 Nov 2004 06:16:00 AM
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 20:34:13 +0000, mick
<michael@spam.mcgarrydware.com> wrote:

The truth is that America is the most powerful nation in the world and has
no one to fear but itself..
Maybe that is a good reason to turn to God

What a remarkably stupid thing to say.
Why don't you turn to the Easter Bunny, moron?

postman

.

User: "New10."

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 03 Nov 2004 03:10:12 PM
People normally turn to religion when they are afraid.
Most often when people are breaking down psychologically turn to the
religion of their childhood. You will rarely find an atheist in back ward of
a psychiatric hospital. The greater their pathology the more they hold onto
their religion like a security blanket.
New10.
.


User: "Rune Brsj"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 03 Nov 2004 04:44:14 PM
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:20:27 -0500, Larry Mundinger
<see.below@signature.org> wrote:

Even with a lagging economy, an unjustified war on Iraq, fifty
million Americans without health insurance and more, the religious right
has successfully made traditional moral values a pressing political
issue. But when they talk about moral values they are not talking
about morals per se. When we think about morals, we think about
character. We think about things like not stealing and not killing; we
think about helping others and being good people. That is not what they
mean. When religious conservatives refer to morality they are talking
about sociopolitical issues like abortion, gay marriage, euthanasia,
stem-cell research and of course state-church separation issues and all

This is so very true, and is what I have been fighting to try and make
christians and conservatives in the United States understand.
.

User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 04 Nov 2004 06:33:20 AM
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:20:27 -0500, Larry Mundinger wrote:

AMERICAN ATHEISTS


A Statement from Ellen Johnson

What Happened?

George W. Bush won the presidential election on November 2. How did
he do it? How did he sway so many Americans to see him as a better
candidate than all the others and particularly John Kerry?

I think what Ellen is saying is that atheists have a lot of work to do to
undo the continuing stigma associated with being an "atheist". Despite
its obvious (to us, anyway) flaws, people still cling to their religions,
and are mistrustful of people who don't acknowledge a "higher power" to
which we are accountable. Perhaps we would do better to start marketing
the "collective future welfare of the local Universe" as our "higher power?"
---
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: A Statement from Ellen Johnson 04 Nov 2004 10:21:01 PM
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:33:20 GMT, MarkA <manthony@stopspam.net> said
in alt.atheism:

and are mistrustful of people who don't acknowledge a "higher power" to
which we are accountable.

They mistrust anyone who doesn't acknowledge (and worship) THEIR
higher power.
--
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its
side."
- Celsus On the True Doctrine, translated by R. Joseph Hoffman, Oxford University Press, 1987
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.



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