| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
| Date: |
16 Jan 2005 07:17:46 AM |
| Object: |
A will so free... |
The question, "Can God create a rock so big even he
can't lift it?", has been cited as an unfair question because
it is just plain logically contradictory.
In the past I have more or less agreed that it
doesn't lead to a productive line of reasoning.
But it occurs to me that the 'free will' appology that
theists rely upon is logically equivalent.
Has this question been asked before?:
Can God create a will so free that even he
can't change it?
--
rb #2187
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: A will so free... |
16 Jan 2005 07:17:54 PM |
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"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <oscar@bellsouth.net.pa> wrote
But it occurs to me that the 'free will' appology that
theists rely upon is logically equivalent.
Not all theist rely upon 'free will'. Many of the fundamentalist
sects, in fact, rely on it not existing.
"Predestination."
But it's not just fundies, as the Lutherans are heavily invested
in Predestination.
Has this question been asked before?:
Can God create a will so free that even he
can't change it?
More interesting: Has any theist ever given an honest
answer, like they don't know?
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| User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" |
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| Title: Re: A will so free... |
17 Jan 2005 08:07:40 AM |
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"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ye2dnQgyvoG9IXfcRVn-sw@comcast.com...
"Ron Baker, Pluralitas!" <oscar@bellsouth.net.pa> wrote
But it occurs to me that the 'free will' appology that
theists rely upon is logically equivalent.
Not all theist rely upon 'free will'. Many of the fundamentalist
sects, in fact, rely on it not existing.
"Predestination."
But it's not just fundies, as the Lutherans are heavily invested
in Predestination.
Interesting. Most of the theists I have dealt with
recently depend on the free will argument.
I will keep an eye open for the predestination
argument.
--
rb #2187
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: A will so free... |
17 Jan 2005 01:57:03 AM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:17:46 GMT, "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"
<oscar@bellsouth.net.pa> said in alt.atheism:
The question, "Can God create a rock so big even he
can't lift it?", has been cited as an unfair question because
it is just plain logically contradictory.
But these same people claim that their god isn't limited by logic, so
the question is legitimate, even though it makes the god in question
impossible.
I guess the moral is "be careful how you define your gods".
--
"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is
a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the
crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due
to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious
indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility
corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of
nature and of our own being."
- Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, from article by
Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1997
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: A will so free... |
17 Jan 2005 02:08:54 AM |
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:57:03 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:17:46 GMT, "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"
<oscar@bellsouth.net.pa> said in alt.atheism:
The question, "Can God create a rock so big even he
can't lift it?", has been cited as an unfair question because
it is just plain logically contradictory.
But these same people claim that their god isn't limited by logic, so
the question is legitimate, even though it makes the god in question
impossible.
It's always legitimate. It's what happens when you introduce
infinities. They're the ones weho introduced the omni-whatever
attributes, not us.
I guess the moral is "be careful how you define your gods".
Yep.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: A will so free... |
20 Jan 2005 05:37:08 AM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:08:54 -0500, Christopher A. Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:57:03 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:17:46 GMT, "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"
<oscar@bellsouth.net.pa> said in alt.atheism:
The question, "Can God create a rock so big even he
can't lift it?", has been cited as an unfair question because
it is just plain logically contradictory.
But these same people claim that their god isn't limited by logic, so
the question is legitimate, even though it makes the god in question
impossible.
It's always legitimate. It's what happens when you introduce
infinities. They're the ones weho introduced the omni-whatever
attributes, not us.
Exactly.
I guess the moral is "be careful how you define your gods".
Yep.
GWB 'did it.'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: A will so free... |
17 Jan 2005 04:09:05 AM |
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:17:46 GMT, "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"
<oscar@bellsouth.net.pa> wrote:
The question, "Can God create a rock so big even he
can't lift it?", has been cited as an unfair question because
it is just plain logically contradictory.
In the past I have more or less agreed that it
doesn't lead to a productive line of reasoning.
But it occurs to me that the 'free will' appology that
theists rely upon is logically equivalent.
Has this question been asked before?:
Can God create a will so free that even he
can't change it?
Satan.
atheist@home#1554
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