aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "*nemo*"
Date: 27 Jun 2007 04:51:59 AM
Object: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007
Here are the nominations for Atheist Quote of the Month for June 2007.
Vote for your favorite by responding to this thread. Votes will be
accepted until midnight, Jul 1, 2007. See rules below. Questions?
Comments?
Email me.
* * * * *
1) In response to:

One side cannot prove the other side wrong in regards to this.

Not entirely true.

You see, on one side, there is both observable fact and mountains of
evidence. This is all accessible through a little thing called
"education".

On the other side, we have nothing but wishful thinking and superstition.

The former is amply able to prove the other side wrong; that has never
been the problem. The problem is in getting the other side to learn to
read.
By: Kelsey Bjarnason
Nominated: Liz
Seconded: Harry F. Leopold
------------
2) Does it make sense to intimidate nonbelievers by using various Bible
verses? That's like asserting that Voldemort from _Harry Potter_ is a
genuine threat, with the proof being a passage from _The Wizard of Oz_.
By: Brian E. Clark
Nominated: Hatter23
Seconded: Brenda Nelson
------------
3) In response to:

"The devil doesn't like Latin," writes Tracy Wilkinson in The
Vatican's Exorcists. "That is one of the first things I
learned from Father Gabriele Amorth, long known as Rome's
chief exorcist, even though that has never been his formal title.

In nominei Darwin, et Dawkins et Spiritui Dobzhansky....
Introebo ad altere environ,
Ad environ qui luetificat juventeum meam.
By: atheistluke
Nominated: Lisbeth Andersson
Seconded: Pastor Kutchie
------------
4) In response to:

Manning lies, as usual. Because I receive revelations I am judged by
antiChrist fools to be insane, and on what basis?

The basis of "you're a loony!"
By: Mark K. Bilbo
Nominated: Christopher A.Lee
Seconded: Hannele
------------
5) Two of my childhood influences were Mr. Wizard and the Children's
Illustrated Bible. Mr. Wizard taught me to think. The Bible stories
taught me to believe without question. I wasn't very good at the
believing part.
By: Liz
Nominated: Pt. Lurk
Seconded: Pastor Kutchie
------------
6) The real origin of atheism--a play in one act by Doc Smartass:

Religious *****: God blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
god god god blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah god blah blah blah
blah damnation blah hell blah heaven blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
screw little altar boys blah blah blah blah blah blah blah god god god.

First atheist: "I don't believe you."

The end.
By: Doc Smartass
Nominated: Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian
Seconded: MarkA
------------
7) Edmund Burke said "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men
to do nothing."

Wouldn't that equally apply to your god? "All it takes for evil to
flourish is for god to do nothing."
By:

Nominated: Enkidu
Seconded: Kate
------------
8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps
with death? Did Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your
back or latex on your *****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a sermon
anywhere in the world instead of just your little mud-hut village,
right? Oh, wait, that was a different Italian. But still, we got images
of the virgin Mary on tortillas. She MUST be real! We got speshul
underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer vigils and TV prophets who
profit from your particular and especially abhorrent brand of stupidity.
Our only hope is that you and your skanky bitches inbreed enough to
eventually become the race of subhumans you so dearly long to become;
slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you or reward you for
all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim. (Falwell's
dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual speculum.)
You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with you.
You and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup (a.a.)
but the entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to blow
up buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians, justify
planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic book
characters (and even real comic book characters like that clearly insane
medieval monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child rapist
and murderer). I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only hope
there IS a hell so that people like you will spend all eternity
screaming in agony, begging that your cartoon gods had actually let you
use the brains they gave you to do some real good in the world instead
of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled redolent hideousness that
personifies all you believe in. You and your cult of death should be
exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can get on with the
real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I actually have
more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your "brethren." The
ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a whole
different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)
I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect fit
for the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't be
shy. Don't be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?
Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you
little chickenshit *****.
I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching and
a double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is FOAD!
And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.
By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic
------------
9) As [Dawkins] reminds us, when you consider the almost infinite
number of possible egg and sperm combinations and the chances against
ever making it to a successful conception, far more people have never
been born than have ever lived. To actually be born is a rare privilege,
there are so many different ways to not exist, or to never have existed
at all. Better to live that brief flash of existence fully than to fret
over some imaginary future existence, don't you think?
By: Steve O
Nominated: nemo
Seconded: Brenda Nelson
------------
10) In response to:

They've been saying [Darwin will collapse] for, what, 150 years now?

Yup. And if they keep on saying it -- long enough and loud enough; and
with enough determination; through thick and thin; in spite of every
obstacle and defeat; and however bleak the prospect seems -- then there
will eventually come a day when, awaking in the bright dawn that follows
the darkest night, they will suddenly discover that they are ... er, ..
*still wrong*...
By: Pt. Lurk
Nominated: Mark K. Bilbo
Seconded: Robibnikoff
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Here are the rules for the Quote of the Month Contests.


RULES

1. Only atheists and agnostics may participate in the contests.

2. A quote is a valid entry for the contests if:

a. The quote is a brief piece of text

b. The quote has recently been written in alt.atheism (verifiable),
and is original (no quotes by famous authors, for instance)

c. Nomination of the quote is made by an atheist or agnostic
in alt.atheism

d. Nomination of the quote is supported by at least one other
atheist or agnostic in alt.atheism;

e. The quote is not nominated or seconded by the person who wrote it
in the first place (no one is allowed to nominate him- or herself,
but a person can vote for the quote he or she wrote.)

3. There will be two categories: 'Atheist Quote of the Month'
and 'Theist Quote of the Month'. The category for which a
quote must be nominated must be mentioned by the atheist or
agnostic who wants to nominate it.

If a quote is miscategorized (e.g. an atheist quote is mistakenly
nominated in the Theist QOTM category), the quote will be re-directed
to appear in the correct category, with approriate notification.

4. Nominations can be made until five days before the first of the
next month. If quotes are nominated after this period, they will be
considered as entries for the contest of the next month.

* When making a nomination, please use this format for the subject
line:
"aa - <A or T as applicable>QOTM Nomination (was: <original thread
name>)"

5. Each atheist or agnostic who visits alt.atheism has one vote to
cast for each category (two votes total).

6. Voting starts 5 days before the end of the month. During the month,
votes will be ignored. This way, all nominees will have equal chance of
winning.

7. The two winning quotes will be published in the QOTM Archive.

SUMMARY

A nomination must contain the following information:

1. The lines of the quote.

2. Who wrote it.

3. Who nominates or seconds the nomination of this quote (that's you!)

4. Which category this nomination is for.

5. The word "nomination" MUST appear somewhere in the subject line!

6. The original thread title must appear in the subject line.
Publish the nomination or support for a nomination in a designated
thread, preferably called "[T/A]QoTM Nomination for [month]." You can
also e-mail it to me (see below).


VOTING

1. In the last five days of the month you can cast your vote in both
categories.

2. Votes must be placed in the designated thread.
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
.

User: "Big Dave"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 07:08:55 AM
This one, number 8.
It's a fine scribe.


8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps
with death? Did Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your
back or latex on your *****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a sermon
anywhere in the world instead of just your little mud-hut village,
right? Oh, wait, that was a different Italian. But still, we got images
of the virgin Mary on tortillas. She MUST be real! We got speshul
underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer vigils and TV prophets who
profit from your particular and especially abhorrent brand of stupidity.
Our only hope is that you and your skanky bitches inbreed enough to
eventually become the race of subhumans you so dearly long to become;
slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you or reward you for
all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim. (Falwell's
dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual speculum.)

You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with you.
You and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup (a.a.)
but the entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to blow
up buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians, justify
planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic book
characters (and even real comic book characters like that clearly insane
medieval monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child rapist
and murderer). I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only hope
there IS a hell so that people like you will spend all eternity
screaming in agony, begging that your cartoon gods had actually let you
use the brains they gave you to do some real good in the world instead
of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled redolent hideousness that
personifies all you believe in. You and your cult of death should be
exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can get on with the
real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I actually have
more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your "brethren." The
ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a whole
different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)

I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect fit
for the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't be
shy. Don't be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?

Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you
little chickenshit *****.

I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching and
a double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is FOAD!

And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.

By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic

------------

.

User: "Mike Smith"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 06:29:22 PM
#5
__________________________________________
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Mike Smith | aa #1164 | Founder of SMASH
__________________________________________
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth?
I tell you, Nay; but rather division." - Luke 12:51
.

User: "Gail Futoran"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 08:18:09 PM
#8
Gail
aa#2247

8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox?
Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of
craps
with death? Did Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your
back or latex on your *****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a
sermon
anywhere in the world instead of just your little mud-hut village,
right? Oh, wait, that was a different Italian. But still, we got
images
of the virgin Mary on tortillas. She MUST be real! We got speshul
underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer vigils and TV prophets
who
profit from your particular and especially abhorrent brand of
stupidity.
Our only hope is that you and your skanky bitches inbreed enough to
eventually become the race of subhumans you so dearly long to
become;
slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you or reward you
for
all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim. (Falwell's
dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual speculum.)

You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with
you.
You and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup
(a.a.)
but the entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to
blow
up buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians,
justify
planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic book
characters (and even real comic book characters like that clearly
insane
medieval monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child
rapist
and murderer). I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only
hope
there IS a hell so that people like you will spend all eternity
screaming in agony, begging that your cartoon gods had actually let
you
use the brains they gave you to do some real good in the world
instead
of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled redolent hideousness that
personifies all you believe in. You and your cult of death should be
exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can get on with
the
real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I actually have
more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your "brethren."
The
ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a whole
different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)

I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect
fit
for the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't
be
shy. Don't be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?

Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you
little chickenshit *****.

I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching
and
a double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is
FOAD!

And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.

By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic

------------

.

User: "Ron Baker, Pluralitas!"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 28 Jun 2007 11:42:45 PM
"*nemo*" <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:nemo0037-69AB3A.05515827062007@news.west.earthlink.net...
I vote for #7
Honorable mention to 1, 3, 5, 6, and 10.
(Hmm. A lot of good ones this month.)
--
rb #2187
.

User: "J Forbes"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 01:21:44 PM
*


8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps

............
yup, get it all out....let em know how we all really
feel....thanks....
Jim
.

User: "The Chief Instigator"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 07:47:07 AM
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> writes:

1) In response to:

One side cannot prove the other side wrong in regards to this.


Not entirely true.

You see, on one side, there is both observable fact and mountains of
evidence. This is all accessible through a little thing called
"education".

On the other side, we have nothing but wishful thinking and superstition.

The former is amply able to prove the other side wrong; that has never
been the problem. The problem is in getting the other side to learn to
read.

By: Kelsey Bjarnason
Nominated: Liz
Seconded: Harry F. Leopold

This is the one for me.
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2006-07 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: San Antonio 4, Houston 2 (April 15)
NEXT GAME: October 2007, date/place/opponent TBA
.

User: "Enkidu"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 08:36:34 AM
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in
news:nemo0037-69AB3A.05515827062007@news.west.earthlink.net:

2) Does it make sense to intimidate nonbelievers by using various
Bible verses? That's like asserting that Voldemort from _Harry Potter_
is a genuine threat, with the proof being a passage from _The Wizard
of Oz_.

By: Brian E. Clark
Nominated: Hatter23
Seconded: Brenda Nelson

This one.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA




A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely
rearranging their prejudices.
-Michel De Montaigne
.

User: "Woden"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 04:47:44 PM
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in news:nemo0037-
69AB3A.05515827062007@news.west.earthlink.net:
#1

1) In response to:

One side cannot prove the other side wrong in regards to this.


Not entirely true.

You see, on one side, there is both observable fact and mountains of
evidence. This is all accessible through a little thing called
"education".

On the other side, we have nothing but wishful thinking and

superstition.


The former is amply able to prove the other side wrong; that has never
been the problem. The problem is in getting the other side to learn to
read.

By: Kelsey Bjarnason
Nominated: Liz
Seconded: Harry F. Leopold

--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.

User: "Pat Kiewicz"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 07:34:42 AM
*nemo* said:


Here are the nominations for Atheist Quote of the Month for June 2007.

I vote for #9.


9) As [Dawkins] reminds us, when you consider the almost infinite
number of possible egg and sperm combinations and the chances against
ever making it to a successful conception, far more people have never
been born than have ever lived. To actually be born is a rare privilege,
there are so many different ways to not exist, or to never have existed
at all. Better to live that brief flash of existence fully than to fret
over some imaginary future existence, don't you think?

By: Steve O
Nominated: nemo
Seconded: Brenda Nelson

--
Pat K. aa#1154 ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)
.

User: "Uncle Vic"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 06:25:15 PM
*nemo* wrote:

------------

7) Edmund Burke said "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men
to do nothing."

Wouldn't that equally apply to your god? "All it takes for evil to
flourish is for god to do nothing."

By:


Nominated: Enkidu
Seconded: Kate

------------

Seven for me.
--
Uncle Vic
2011
.

User: "jem"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 02:57:50 PM

------------

8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps
with death? Did Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your
back or latex on your *****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a sermon
anywhere in the world instead of just your little mud-hut village,
right? Oh, wait, that was a different Italian. But still, we got images
of the virgin Mary on tortillas. She MUST be real! We got speshul
underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer vigils and TV prophets who
profit from your particular and especially abhorrent brand of stupidity.
Our only hope is that you and your skanky bitches inbreed enough to
eventually become the race of subhumans you so dearly long to become;
slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you or reward you for
all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim. (Falwell's
dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual speculum.)

You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with you.
You and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup (a.a.)
but the entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to blow
up buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians, justify
planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic book
characters (and even real comic book characters like that clearly insane
medieval monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child rapist
and murderer). I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only hope
there IS a hell so that people like you will spend all eternity
screaming in agony, begging that your cartoon gods had actually let you
use the brains they gave you to do some real good in the world instead
of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled redolent hideousness that
personifies all you believe in. You and your cult of death should be
exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can get on with the
real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I actually have
more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your "brethren." The
ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a whole
different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)

I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect fit
for the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't be
shy. Don't be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?

Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you
little chickenshit *****.

I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching and
a double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is FOAD!

And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.

By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic

------------

This one, #8
jem
they're all great, but this rant was soooo much fun to read
.

User: "Olrik"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 10:01:31 PM

8)

<snip excellent, tasty rant>

By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic

That one. Thanks.
Olrik
.

User: "MarkA"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 08:45:05 AM

8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps
with death? Did Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your
back or latex on your *****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a sermon
anywhere in the world instead of just your little mud-hut village,
right? Oh, wait, that was a different Italian. But still, we got images
of the virgin Mary on tortillas. She MUST be real! We got speshul
underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer vigils and TV prophets who
profit from your particular and especially abhorrent brand of stupidity.
Our only hope is that you and your skanky bitches inbreed enough to
eventually become the race of subhumans you so dearly long to become;
slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you or reward you for
all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim. (Falwell's
dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual speculum.)

You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with you.
You and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup (a.a.)
but the entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to blow
up buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians, justify
planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic book
characters (and even real comic book characters like that clearly insane
medieval monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child rapist
and murderer). I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only hope
there IS a hell so that people like you will spend all eternity
screaming in agony, begging that your cartoon gods had actually let you
use the brains they gave you to do some real good in the world instead
of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled redolent hideousness that
personifies all you believe in. You and your cult of death should be
exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can get on with the
real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I actually have
more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your "brethren." The
ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a whole
different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)

I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect fit
for the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't be
shy. Don't be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?

Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you
little chickenshit *****.

I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching and
a double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is FOAD!

And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.

By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic

------------

#8
I usually don't like the long-winded ones (I have a *very* short attention
span), but this one is passionate and perfect.
--
MarkA
(This space accidentally filled in)
.

User: ""

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 12:20:09 PM
Although there are several good ones
I favor number one:
1) In response to:

One side cannot prove the other side wrong in regards to this.

Not entirely true.
You see, on one side, there is both observable fact and mountains of
evidence. This is all accessible through a little thing called
"education". On the other side, we have nothing but wishful thinking
and superstition. The former is amply able to prove the other side
wrong; that has never been the problem. The problem is in getting the
other side to learn to read.
By: Kelsey Bjarnason
Nominated: Liz
Seconded: Harry F. Leopold
.

User: "Lisbeth Andersson"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 09:37:32 AM
I vote for #3.

3) In response to:

"The devil doesn't like Latin," writes Tracy Wilkinson in The
Vatican's Exorcists. "That is one of the first things I
learned from Father Gabriele Amorth, long known as Rome's
chief exorcist, even though that has never been his formal
title.


In nominei Darwin, et Dawkins et Spiritui Dobzhansky....
Introebo ad altere environ,
Ad environ qui luetificat juventeum meam.

Lisbeth.
----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Pastor Kutchie, ordained atheist minister"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 06:58:46 AM
I was working in the lab, late one night
when my eyes beheld an eerie sight
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> , from the slab, began to rise
and suddenly, to my surprise, wrote:

Here are the nominations for Atheist Quote of the Month for June 2007.

#8. Easy, tiger!
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 30 Jun 2007 02:06:47 AM
In article <nemo0037-69AB3A.05515827062007@news.west.earthlink.net>,
*nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:

Here are the nominations for Atheist Quote of the Month for June 2007.
Vote for your favorite by responding to this thread. Votes will be
accepted until midnight, Jul 1, 2007. See rules below. Questions?
Comments?
Email me.


------------

8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps
with death? Did Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your
back or latex on your *****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a sermon
anywhere in the world instead of just your little mud-hut village,
right? Oh, wait, that was a different Italian. But still, we got images
of the virgin Mary on tortillas. She MUST be real! We got speshul
underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer vigils and TV prophets who
profit from your particular and especially abhorrent brand of stupidity.
Our only hope is that you and your skanky bitches inbreed enough to
eventually become the race of subhumans you so dearly long to become;
slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you or reward you for
all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim. (Falwell's
dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual speculum.)

You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with you.
You and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup (a.a.)
but the entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to blow
up buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians, justify
planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic book
characters (and even real comic book characters like that clearly insane
medieval monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child rapist
and murderer). I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only hope
there IS a hell so that people like you will spend all eternity
screaming in agony, begging that your cartoon gods had actually let you
use the brains they gave you to do some real good in the world instead
of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled redolent hideousness that
personifies all you believe in. You and your cult of death should be
exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can get on with the
real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I actually have
more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your "brethren." The
ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a whole
different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)

I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect fit
for the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't be
shy. Don't be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?

Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you
little chickenshit *****.

I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching and
a double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is FOAD!

And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.

By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic

I'll vote for No.8. Beautiful!
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
User: "James Norris"

Title: Design for a Conscious Mechanoid 30 Jun 2007 03:19:19 AM
On Jun 30, 8:06?am, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:

In article <nemo0037-69AB3A.05515827062...@news.west.earthlink.net>,





*nemo* <nemo0...@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:

Here are the nominations for Atheist Quote of the Month for June 2007.
Vote for your favorite by responding to this thread. Votes will be
accepted until midnight, Jul 1, 2007. See rules below. Questions?
Comments?
Email me.


------------


8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps
with death? Did Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your
back or latex on your *****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a sermon
anywhere in the world instead of just your little mud-hut village,
right? Oh, wait, that was a different Italian. But still, we got images
of the virgin Mary on tortillas. She MUST be real! We got speshul
underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer vigils and TV prophets who
profit from your particular and especially abhorrent brand of stupidity.
Our only hope is that you and your skanky bitches inbreed enough to
eventually become the race of subhumans you so dearly long to become;
slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you or reward you for
all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim. (Falwell's
dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual speculum.)


You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with you.
You and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup (a.a.)
but the entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to blow
up buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians, justify
planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic book
characters (and even real comic book characters like that clearly insane
medieval monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child rapist
and murderer). I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only hope
there IS a hell so that people like you will spend all eternity
screaming in agony, begging that your cartoon gods had actually let you
use the brains they gave you to do some real good in the world instead
of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled redolent hideousness that
personifies all you believe in. You and your cult of death should be
exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can get on with the
real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I actually have
more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your "brethren." The
ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a whole
different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)


I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect fit
for the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't be
shy. Don't be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?


Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you
little chickenshit *****.


I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching and
a double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is FOAD!


And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.


By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic


I'll vote for No.8. Beautiful!
--
John #1782

"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."

- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jun 30, 4:26 am, James Norris <JimNorri...@aol.com> wrote:

On Jun 30, 3:25?am, someone2 <glenn.spig...@btinternet.com> wrote:

On Jun 30, 1:55 am, James Norris <JimNorri...@aol.com> wrote:


Design for a Conscious Mechanoid


[Just to deter the predictable 'define what you mean by conscious'
posting: 'Conscious' means 'aware of reality' - a human being is
conscious, but a piece of paper is not conscious. If there is still a
problem with understanding the word 'conscious', try using a
dictionary.]


Start off with millions of identical ordinary (non-conscious) robots.
Each robot is pre-programmed to collect things from the environment at
random (twigs, elastic bands, teadcups, wheels, orange peel etc), and
incorporate them into itself, gradually replacing all its original
component parts as it does so. Now let the robots free to interact
with the environment, and watch what happens.


Most of the robots would cease to function quite rapidly, of course.
They might replace one of their vital components (the computer
program, for example), with a piece of orange peel and immediately
stop working permanently. Some might continue to function for quite a
while, making meaningless minor alterations to their original
structure, without affecting their basic operation as a programmed
mechanical device, which we knew to be non-conscious. We can ignore
robots which have replaced themselves with biological material which
was already conscious, because that is obviously not what we are
interested in.


The robots we are interested in are those which manage to replace all
their constituent components, including their original computer
hardware and software, but are still functioning. They, like
ourselves, have been created out of material from the environment, so
they might be conscious, as we are.


A certain amount of complexity is required for consciousness, and this
could be provided, for example, by using the twigs to twang the
elastic bands - the vibrational properties of the elastic bands could
easily carry any complexity necessary for the occurrence of thought.
For that to happen by chance is extremely unlikely of course, as is
the likelihood of millions of monkeys randomly operating typewriters
producing the occasional Shakespeare sonnet by chance, but if you left
them long enough, they would eventually do it!


Consciousness is a subjective experience, so there is no way of
determining whether or not anything or anybody is conscious. In the
design above, the construction allows the possibility that
consciousness might occur in a device which was originally non-
conscious. The random self-modifying behaviour may have led to a
wheeled mechanism made out of orange peel, teacups and elastic bands
held together with bits of wood, with its understanding of reality
contained in the vibrational processes occurring in the twig-twanged
elastic bands, which wanders around in the natural environment
apparently decorating itself with the bits of garbage it picks up.
Perhaps the device has improved on its original design and is now
conscious? At any rate, it certainly wouldn't be less conscious than
it was to begin with.


James Norris


I read your thread. Was it a satirical portrayal of atheist
"reasoning"?


No, it was a design for a conscious entity, neither biological nor
computer-based.


I especially liked the bit:


"A certain amount of complexity is required for consciousness, and
this could be provided, for example, by using the twigs to twang the
elastic bands - the vibrational properties of the elastic bands could
easily carry any complexity necessary for the occurrence of thought."


You could imagine atheists setting themselves up as authorities on
which tunes played on a guitar gave rise to consciousness, and whether
one string, or all the strings, or the whole guitar had the
experiences. They could debate on to what extent they could
anthropomorphise the conscious experience a certain song gave.


The notion of vibrations carrying information was an example of how
the necessary complexity for 'thoughts' might arise in the mechanism.
I understand from your earlier postings that you believe that human
beings have a non-physical 'soul', so I'm not sure why you think my
suggestion is so laughable.


Though the part where you said, "consciousness is a subjective
experience, so there is no way of determining whether or not anything
or anybody is conscious", did illustrate that from an atheist
perspective there would be no experimental difference expected whether
something was or wasn't consciously experiencing, which is something a
few of them here are having problems coming to terms with.


I don't know why you pick on atheists in particular as having a
problem with the unverifiability of subjective experiences, but
anyway, perhaps many of us do - I personally don't.


Still, very amusing, assuming of course you weren't being serious, and
an absolute nutter.


An absolute nutter in your opinion might be someone who believed that
they had four souls, rather than just the one, I suppose.


The Design for a Conscious Mechanoid is quite serious - a hypothetical
example of how a constructed 'mechanical' (ie non-biological) being
might be conscious. I'm not suggesting that it would ever work in
reality, any more than that a million monkeys typing on a million
typewriters for a million years to produce the works of Shakespeare
would ever work in reality. The example draws attention to the
salient aspects of an interesting question. I'm glad you found it
amusing though. I always try to make my postings interesting and
memorable, and humour is a well-known didactic tool.


The problem with no experimental difference expected whether something
was or wasn't consciously experiencing, is that it means whether it
was or wasn't, couldn't be thought to influence behaviour. If that was
the case, it would have to be a coincidence that our behaviour
expressed the conscious experiences we actually have (it couldn't have
been influenced by their existance).


You are trying to discuss consciousness using behavioural concepts.
The behavioural understanding of the psyche has little to say about
consciousness - the brain reacts to external stimuli and produces
behaviour in the organism, which is studied to give an understanding
of the workings of the brain. Cognitive models of consciousness,
which you should look into as they might help you express your
argument, are inside-out compared to the behavioural viewpoint. The
'mind' (which is believed to exist because of processes occurring in
the brain) is considered as an Ego, with Superego, Id and various
other paraphernalia, and these all contribute to goal-directed
behaviour caused by subjective 'needs' which the conscious being tries
to satisfy.


Anyway, interesting post. So have you any thoughts on which tunes
played on a guitar might be give rise to, the string(s) or the guitar
thinking? Any thoughts on what those thoughts might be? I ask you, as
I guess you would be the closest thing to a world authority on the
concept, or have you got competition?


No, you haven't really grasped the point about the vibrations in the
example. I was just pointing out that a certain amount of complexity
is required for consciousness, so complexity is needed somewhere in
the mechanoid. Vibrating systems can contain information of arbitrary
complexity - they don't have to be made out of physical elastic
bands. Vibrations occur in strings in general, these could be the
theoretical strings of string-theory, or hair-like cilia made from
millions of tiny pinheads all oscillating in a plasma field, if you
think elastic bands are too primitive a device to be worth
considering. Some people think that Mobius strips are weirdly clever
- perhaps if millions of elastic bands were Mobius strips interacting
in a complex 3-d lattice, with carefully placed twigs and twiglets to
provide the necessary resonance and feedback effects, it would be
rather more likely to have the necessary complexity for conscious
awareness of reality, than using just the one guitar string that you
suggest?

Discuss.
.


User: "Siobhan Burke"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 30 Jun 2007 05:40:28 AM
In article <nemo0037-69AB3A.05515827062007@news.west.earthlink.net>,
nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net says...

Here are the nominations for Atheist Quote of the Month for June 2007.
Vote for your favorite by responding to this thread. Votes will be
accepted until midnight, Jul 1, 2007. See rules below. Questions?
Comments?
Email me.

* * * * *

This one.

------------

9) As [Dawkins] reminds us, when you consider the almost infinite
number of possible egg and sperm combinations and the chances against
ever making it to a successful conception, far more people have never
been born than have ever lived. To actually be born is a rare privilege,
there are so many different ways to not exist, or to never have existed
at all. Better to live that brief flash of existence fully than to fret
over some imaginary future existence, don't you think?

By: Steve O
Nominated: nemo
Seconded: Brenda Nelson

------------

--
Siobhan - alt.atheism list #2201
hellflower.alMayne@earthlink.net (Now a real address, if you ice the
alMayne.)
No matter how far a jackass travels, it will never come back a horse.
.

User: "Andy W"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 05:57:46 PM
No 1 please.


* * * * *
1) In response to:

One side cannot prove the other side wrong in regards to this.


Not entirely true.

You see, on one side, there is both observable fact and mountains of
evidence. This is all accessible through a little thing called
"education".

On the other side, we have nothing but wishful thinking and superstition.

The former is amply able to prove the other side wrong; that has never
been the problem. The problem is in getting the other side to learn to
read.

By: Kelsey Bjarnason
Nominated: Liz
Seconded: Harry F. Leopold

Andy
.

User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 07:55:40 AM
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:51:59 GMT there was an Ancient *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> who stoppeth one in alt.atheism
#3, because everythinjg is cooler in Latin.

3) In response to:

"The devil doesn't like Latin," writes Tracy Wilkinson in The
Vatican's Exorcists. "That is one of the first things I
learned from Father Gabriele Amorth, long known as Rome's
chief exorcist, even though that has never been his formal title.


In nominei Darwin, et Dawkins et Spiritui Dobzhansky....
Introebo ad altere environ,
Ad environ qui luetificat juventeum meam.

By: atheistluke
Nominated: Lisbeth Andersson
Seconded: Pastor Kutchie

--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
.

User: "Tink"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 29 Jun 2007 04:48:23 PM
On 2007-06-27 05:51:59 -0400, *nemo* <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> said:

------------

8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did
they make childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps
with death? Did Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your
back or latex on your *****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a
sermon anywhere in the world instead of just your little mud-hut
village, right? Oh, wait, that was a different Italian. But still, we
got images of the virgin Mary on tortillas. She MUST be real! We got
speshul underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer vigils and TV
prophets who profit from your particular and especially abhorrent brand
of stupidity. Our only hope is that you and your skanky bitches inbreed
enough to eventually become the race of subhumans you so dearly long to
become; slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you or reward
you for all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim.
(Falwell's dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual
speculum.)

You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with you.
You and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup (a.a.)
but the entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to
blow up buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians,
justify planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic
book characters (and even real comic book characters like that clearly
insane medieval monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child
rapist and murderer). I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only
hope there IS a hell so that people like you will spend all eternity
screaming in agony, begging that your cartoon gods had actually let you
use the brains they gave you to do some real good in the world instead
of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled redolent hideousness that
personifies all you believe in. You and your cult of death should be
exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can get on with the
real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I actually have
more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your "brethren."
The ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a whole
different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)
I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect
fit for the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't
be shy. Don't be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?
Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you
little chickenshit *****.

I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching and
a double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is FOAD!

And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.

By: chibiabos
Nominated: Smiler
Seconded: Uncle Vic

------------

<Stands, applauds> This one.
--
Skydivers don't knock on death's door; they ring the bell and run
away... It really pisses him off.
  
 The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
 AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS# 8808
 EAC Chairman, Division of Skydiving and Sushi consumption.
.

User: "skyeyes"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 12:08:43 PM
On Jun 27, 2:51 am, *nemo* <nemo0...@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:

1) In response to:

One side cannot prove the other side wrong in regards to this.


Not entirely true.

You see, on one side, there is both observable fact and mountains of
evidence. This is all accessible through a little thing called
"education".

On the other side, we have nothing but wishful thinking and superstition.

The former is amply able to prove the other side wrong; that has never
been the problem. The problem is in getting the other side to learn to
read.

By: Kelsey Bjarnason
Nominated: Liz
Seconded: Harry F. Leopold

Kelsey's quote gets my vote.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
.

User: "Chris Johnson"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 12:31:39 PM
On Jun 27, 4:51 am, *nemo* <nemo0...@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
Small crop, but good ones. Especially 1, 6, and 8.
I think I'll go with #1.

1) In response to:

One side cannot prove the other side wrong in regards to this.


Not entirely true.

You see, on one side, there is both observable fact and mountains of
evidence. This is all accessible through a little thing called
"education".

On the other side, we have nothing but wishful thinking and superstition.

The former is amply able to prove the other side wrong; that has never
been the problem. The problem is in getting the other side to learn to
read.

By: Kelsey Bjarnason
Nominated: Liz
Seconded: Harry F. Leopold

.

User: "Hatter"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 08:16:42 AM
On Jun 27, 5:51 am, *nemo* <nemo0...@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:


2) Does it make sense to intimidate nonbelievers by using various Bible
verses? That's like asserting that Voldemort from _Harry Potter_ is a
genuine threat, with the proof being a passage from _The Wizard of Oz_.

That would be the one for me.
Hatter
.

User: "Andres64"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 30 Jun 2007 03:28:55 AM
On Jun 27, 5:51 am, *nemo* <nemo0...@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
This one. But 7 and 8 were excellent also.

6) The real origin of atheism--a play in one act by Doc Smartass:

Religious *****: God blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
god god god blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah god blah blah blah
blah damnation blah hell blah heaven blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
screw little altar boys blah blah blah blah blah blah blah god god god.

First atheist: "I don't believe you."

The end.

By: Doc Smartass
Nominated: Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian
Seconded: MarkA

.
User: "James Norris"

Title: Design for a Conscious Mechanoid 30 Jun 2007 03:30:17 AM
On Jun 30, 9:28?am, Andres64 <andres...@excite.com> wrote:

On Jun 27, 5:51 am, *nemo* <nemo0...@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:

This one. But 7 and 8 were excellent also.



6) The real origin of atheism--a play in one act by Doc Smartass:


Religious *****: God blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
god god god blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah god blah blah blah
blah damnation blah hell blah heaven blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
screw little altar boys blah blah blah blah blah blah blah god god god.


First atheist: "I don't believe you."


The end.


By: Doc Smartass
Nominated: Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian
Seconded: MarkA- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -

On Jun 30, 4:26 am, James Norris <JimNorri...@aol.com> wrote:

On Jun 30, 3:25?am, someone2 <glenn.spig...@btinternet.com> wrote:

On Jun 30, 1:55 am, James Norris <JimNorri...@aol.com> wrote:


Design for a Conscious Mechanoid


[Just to deter the predictable 'define what you mean by conscious'
posting: 'Conscious' means 'aware of reality' - a human being is
conscious, but a piece of paper is not conscious. If there is still a
problem with understanding the word 'conscious', try using a
dictionary.]


Start off with millions of identical ordinary (non-conscious) robots.
Each robot is pre-programmed to collect things from the environment at
random (twigs, elastic bands, teadcups, wheels, orange peel etc), and
incorporate them into itself, gradually replacing all its original
component parts as it does so. Now let the robots free to interact
with the environment, and watch what happens.


Most of the robots would cease to function quite rapidly, of course.
They might replace one of their vital components (the computer
program, for example), with a piece of orange peel and immediately
stop working permanently. Some might continue to function for quite a
while, making meaningless minor alterations to their original
structure, without affecting their basic operation as a programmed
mechanical device, which we knew to be non-conscious. We can ignore
robots which have replaced themselves with biological material which
was already conscious, because that is obviously not what we are
interested in.


The robots we are interested in are those which manage to replace all
their constituent components, including their original computer
hardware and software, but are still functioning. They, like
ourselves, have been created out of material from the environment, so
they might be conscious, as we are.


A certain amount of complexity is required for consciousness, and this
could be provided, for example, by using the twigs to twang the
elastic bands - the vibrational properties of the elastic bands could
easily carry any complexity necessary for the occurrence of thought.
For that to happen by chance is extremely unlikely of course, as is
the likelihood of millions of monkeys randomly operating typewriters
producing the occasional Shakespeare sonnet by chance, but if you left
them long enough, they would eventually do it!


Consciousness is a subjective experience, so there is no way of
determining whether or not anything or anybody is conscious. In the
design above, the construction allows the possibility that
consciousness might occur in a device which was originally non-
conscious. The random self-modifying behaviour may have led to a
wheeled mechanism made out of orange peel, teacups and elastic bands
held together with bits of wood, with its understanding of reality
contained in the vibrational processes occurring in the twig-twanged
elastic bands, which wanders around in the natural environment
apparently decorating itself with the bits of garbage it picks up.
Perhaps the device has improved on its original design and is now
conscious? At any rate, it certainly wouldn't be less conscious than
it was to begin with.


James Norris


I read your thread. Was it a satirical portrayal of atheist
"reasoning"?


No, it was a design for a conscious entity, neither biological nor
computer-based.


I especially liked the bit:


"A certain amount of complexity is required for consciousness, and
this could be provided, for example, by using the twigs to twang the
elastic bands - the vibrational properties of the elastic bands could
easily carry any complexity necessary for the occurrence of thought."


You could imagine atheists setting themselves up as authorities on
which tunes played on a guitar gave rise to consciousness, and whether
one string, or all the strings, or the whole guitar had the
experiences. They could debate on to what extent they could
anthropomorphise the conscious experience a certain song gave.


The notion of vibrations carrying information was an example of how
the necessary complexity for 'thoughts' might arise in the mechanism.
I understand from your earlier postings that you believe that human
beings have a non-physical 'soul', so I'm not sure why you think my
suggestion is so laughable.


Though the part where you said, "consciousness is a subjective
experience, so there is no way of determining whether or not anything
or anybody is conscious", did illustrate that from an atheist
perspective there would be no experimental difference expected whether
something was or wasn't consciously experiencing, which is something a
few of them here are having problems coming to terms with.


I don't know why you pick on atheists in particular as having a
problem with the unverifiability of subjective experiences, but
anyway, perhaps many of us do - I personally don't.


Still, very amusing, assuming of course you weren't being serious, and
an absolute nutter.


An absolute nutter in your opinion might be someone who believed that
they had four souls, rather than just the one, I suppose.


The Design for a Conscious Mechanoid is quite serious - a hypothetical
example of how a constructed 'mechanical' (ie non-biological) being
might be conscious. I'm not suggesting that it would ever work in
reality, any more than that a million monkeys typing on a million
typewriters for a million years to produce the works of Shakespeare
would ever work in reality. The example draws attention to the
salient aspects of an interesting question. I'm glad you found it
amusing though. I always try to make my postings interesting and
memorable, and humour is a well-known didactic tool.


The problem with no experimental difference expected whether something
was or wasn't consciously experiencing, is that it means whether it
was or wasn't, couldn't be thought to influence behaviour. If that was
the case, it would have to be a coincidence that our behaviour
expressed the conscious experiences we actually have (it couldn't have
been influenced by their existance).


You are trying to discuss consciousness using behavioural concepts.
The behavioural understanding of the psyche has little to say about
consciousness - the brain reacts to external stimuli and produces
behaviour in the organism, which is studied to give an understanding
of the workings of the brain. Cognitive models of consciousness,
which you should look into as they might help you express your
argument, are inside-out compared to the behavioural viewpoint. The
'mind' (which is believed to exist because of processes occurring in
the brain) is considered as an Ego, with Superego, Id and various
other paraphernalia, and these all contribute to goal-directed
behaviour caused by subjective 'needs' which the conscious being tries
to satisfy.


Anyway, interesting post. So have you any thoughts on which tunes
played on a guitar might be give rise to, the string(s) or the guitar
thinking? Any thoughts on what those thoughts might be? I ask you, as
I guess you would be the closest thing to a world authority on the
concept, or have you got competition?


No, you haven't really grasped the point about the vibrations in the
example. I was just pointing out that a certain amount of complexity
is required for consciousness, so complexity is needed somewhere in
the mechanoid. Vibrating systems can contain information of arbitrary
complexity - they don't have to be made out of physical elastic
bands. Vibrations occur in strings in general, these could be the
theoretical strings of string-theory, or hair-like cilia made from
millions of tiny pinheads all oscillating in a plasma field, if you
think elastic bands are too primitive a device to be worth
considering. Some people think that Mobius strips are weirdly clever
- perhaps if millions of elastic bands were Mobius strips interacting
in a complex 3-d lattice, with carefully placed twigs and twiglets to
provide the necessary resonance and feedback effects, it would be
rather more likely to have the necessary complexity for conscious
awareness of reality, than using just the one guitar string that you
suggest?

Discuss.
.


User: "Harry F. Leopold"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 09:21:22 AM
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:51:59 -0500, nemo* wrote
(in article <nemo0037-69AB3A.05515827062007@news.west.earthlink.net>):
This one, because sometimes you just need a decent rant.

8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you ignorant
little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they build that
fucking computer for you? Did they cure polio? Smallpox? Did they make
childbirth a routine part of life instead of a game of craps with death? Did
Jesus put your rubber on the road, polyester on your back or latex on your
*****? All praise to Him who lets you hear a sermon anywhere in the world
instead of just your little mud-hut village, right? Oh, wait, that was a
different Italian. But still, we got images of the virgin Mary on tortillas.
She MUST be real! We got speshul underwear and crystal cathedrals and prayer
vigils and TV prophets who profit from your particular and especially
abhorrent brand of stupidity. Our only hope is that you and your skanky
bitches inbreed enough to eventually become the race of subhumans you so
dearly long to become; slaves to an invisible sky pixie who will punish you
or reward you for all eternity depending on its current slime-coated whim.
(Falwell's dead. I guess you'll need to find another spiritual speculum.)

You are a joke. You are a laugh. You drag the rest of us down with you. You
and all the other cretins who infest not only this newsgroup (a.a.) but the
entire world, who make your unfounded beliefs the reason to blow up
buildings, maim women and children, kill innocent civilians, justify
planet-wide genocidal pogroms in the name of fictional comic book characters
(and even real comic book characters like that clearly insane medieval
monster Mohammed, the currently vogue superhero child rapist and murderer).
I'm with Christopher Hitchens on this one. I only hope there IS a hell so
that people like you will spend all eternity screaming in agony, begging that
your cartoon gods had actually let you use the brains they gave you to do
some real good in the world instead of more of the same putrid, sewage-filled
redolent hideousness that personifies all you believe in. You and your cult
of death should be exterminated like a swarm of ants so the rest of us can
get on with the real business of pest-free living. (That being said, I
actually have more respect for a colony of ants than I do you and your
"brethren." The ants are just doing what ants must do to survive. You have a
whole different purpose [Cf. polio, smallpox, &C.].)

I wish I knew where you lived, because I have a 2x4 that's a perfect fit for
the back of your skull. And why not? You ain't using it. Don't be shy. Don't
be afraid. Don't you believe Jesus will protect you?

Nah, you don't believe in your storybook god that much, do you, you little
chickenshit *****.

I think the word I'm looking for here (after so much soul-searching and a
double dose of my non-diety-approved hypertension medication) is FOAD!

And soon, please. We need the oxygen you're wasting.

By: chibiabos Nominated: Smiler Seconded: Uncle Vic

--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)
³They are actually a manifestation of the famed Usenet hydra: you cut off one
head, and a stupider one grows back...³-Bonfire of the Deities
.
User: "Geoff"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 11:08:47 AM
Harry F. Leopold wrote:

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:51:59 -0500, nemo* wrote
(in article <nemo0037-69AB3A.05515827062007@news.west.earthlink.net>):

This one, because sometimes you just need a decent rant.

8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant

Early exit polls show #8 with a strong lead with 6 votes!
.


User: "Christopher A.Lee"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 06:13:39 AM
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:51:59 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:

4) In response to:

Manning lies, as usual. Because I receive revelations I am judged by
antiChrist fools to be insane, and on what basis?


The basis of "you're a loony!"

By: Mark K. Bilbo
Nominated: Christopher A.Lee
Seconded: Hannele

This one
.

User: "Liz"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 06:57:58 AM
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:51:59 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
I vote for #1 with a special nod to chib for his magnificent rant.

1) In response to:

One side cannot prove the other side wrong in regards to this.


Not entirely true.

You see, on one side, there is both observable fact and mountains of
evidence. This is all accessible through a little thing called
"education".

On the other side, we have nothing but wishful thinking and superstition.

The former is amply able to prove the other side wrong; that has never
been the problem. The problem is in getting the other side to learn to
read.

By: Kelsey Bjarnason
Nominated: Liz
Seconded: Harry F. Leopold

Liz #658 BAAWA
.

User: "raven1"

Title: Re: aa - The polls are open! AQOTM for June 2007 27 Jun 2007 02:10:08 PM
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:51:59 GMT, *nemo*
<nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote:
This one. Is Chib a BAAWA Knight? He should be! Reading this got me
all misty-eyed thinking about the glory days of Stix...

8) So. How you liking them late Stone Age Middle Eastern myths, you
ignorant little *****? Working well for you, are they? Did they
build that fucking computer for you?