Religions > Atheism > AA God the Magician - Proof god can make 2 + 2 = 5 and does not exist
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"wbarwell" |
| Date: |
27 Jun 2006 10:12:28 AM |
| Object: |
AA God the Magician - Proof god can make 2 + 2 = 5 and does not exist |
No responses from Gandalf, "Fool" et al will be answered
A proof that god cannot be bound by logic
and is thus a magician, not limited by logic
and reason. That he must exist.
But cannot exist. And that all theologian's
quibbles to save god from contradictions
created by his supposed attributes or
problems such as existance of real evil
are pointless and useless and un-neccesary.
If a problem is real, evi exists, but God hates evil,
is magic and can eliminate all evil and does not,
no theologian's quibble or apologism in principle
can be admitted.
GOD THE MAGICIAN.
A.
God is a magician. By that I mean god is capable
of doing anything. God is not bound by laws of logic,
or by sort of rationality. he is in this sense truely
omnipotent in the most extreme meaning of that word.
1. God has long been considered perfect by Christian
theology on biblical grounds.
Matthew 5:48
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father
which is in heaven is perfect.
2. God is greater than anything that can be imagined
Exodus 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among
the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness,
fearful in praises, doing wonders?
3. In Christian theology, god is thus perfect, greater
than anything imaginable. There are no gods other
than god, and nothing greater than a perfect god
can be imagined.
B. GOD AND ONTOLOGY.
1. St. Anslem, the 10th century theologian invented
the well known ontological proof of God.
2. God is that which is greater than anything
that can be imagined.
3. Something that is greater than anything
that can be imagined must have all perfections.
4. Existance is a perfection.
5. Therefore god must exist.
C. GOD'S PERFECTION, GOD GREATER THAN ANYTHING
1. Can god make 2 + 2 = 4? Does god create logic and
the rules of the Universe?
2. A god that can make 2 + 2 = 5 at will is greater
than a god that cannot.
3. God must have all perfections, all positive abilities,
all positive powers.
3. Since god is by revelation, known to be perfect,
and from that perfection we can derive the claim
that god is greater than anything imaginable
god must be able to make 2 + 2 = 5 as that is
greate than a god that cannot do that.
4. If god cannot do that it is a perfection he must
lack.
5. Since the most perfect and greatest god must have
the perfection of actual existance, god is capable
of making 2 + 2 = 5 and that God must exist
as per Anslem. (B. 4-5)
6. This means god must be able to change the very
nature of logic at will. 2 + 2 can = 5.
GOD'S MAGIC
1. This means god is magic, that is logic and rationality
can not bind or limit god. God can do anything
and can sweep all limits and problems away by fiat.
There can be no contradictions or limts that can thus
thwart god's will in any way. This is the greatest god
imaginable, and most perfect god of scripture
2. Thus all supposed claims god cannot do this or that
are specious and false.
3. All problems that arise from contradictions between
god's attributes are solvable by magic. No theological
quibbles or explanations are releveant or needed.
4. All problems in the real world, moral evil, suffering,
et al need theological explanations. God can solve
all by magic, instantly, without effort and without
any undesirable side effects.
5. All seeming problems why these things are not
in fact done are not amenable to logic or rationality
and thus theological quibbles or apologies.
6. God can make man with free will and capable of doing
no moral evil, and there can be no objections to
god doing this in any way because god is magic and can
do anything, he has no limits, not even logical limits.
7. All theological quibbles are thus irrelevant and pointless.
8. By revelation we know god wants all men to be saved
and hates evil. (1) (2)
9. By revelation we know god really does not care about
free will (3)
10. Therefore no moral evil should exist.
11. But moral evil exists.
12. Therefore god cannot exist.
FOOTNOTES
(1) *****************
1 timothy 3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God
our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto
the knowledge of the truth.
(2) ******************
Psalm 5:4
4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in
wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou
hatest all workers of iniquity.
6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing:
the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
(3) ******************
Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did
predestinate to be conformed to the image of his
Son, that he might be the firstborn among many
brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also
called: and whom he called, them he also
justified: and whom he justified, them he also
glorified.
-----------
Romans 9:13-38
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau
have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there
unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on
whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion
on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of
him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for
this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I
might shew my power in thee, and that my name
might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have
mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
-----------
Romans 11:5-10
5 Even so then at this present time also there is
a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works:
otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of
works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is
no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which
he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it,
and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them
the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not
see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto
this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a
snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a
recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not
see, and bow down their back alway.
-----------
John 12:37-41
37 But though he had done so many miracles before
them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be
fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath
believed our report? and to whom hath the arm
of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that
Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their
heart; that they should not see with their
eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be
converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his
glory, and spake of him.
-----------------
Acts 4:27-8
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus,
whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius
Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of
Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel
determined before to be done.
-----------------
1 Corinthians 2:7
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,
even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before
the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew:
for had they known it, they would not have
crucified the Lord of glory.
-----------------
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that
are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the
minds of them which believe not, lest the light
of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the
image of God, should shine unto them.
------------------
Ephesians 1:1-6
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of
God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to
the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father,
and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual
blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the
foundation of the world, that we should be holy
and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of
children by Jesus Christ to himself, according
to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein
he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
-----------------
Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and
that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ
Jesus unto good works, which God hath before
ordained that we should walk in them.
------------------
II Timothy 1:9
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy
calling, not according to our works, but
according to his own purpose and grace, which
was given us in Christ Jesus before the world
began,..
******************* End *********************
--
Join the anti-willful-religious-stupidity brigade today.
You will be glad you did.
Our motto: Slap! "Wake up stupid!"
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Gospel Bretts" |
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| Title: Re: AA God the Magician - Proof god can make 2 + 2 = 5 and does not exist |
27 Jun 2006 11:08:38 AM |
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On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:12:28 -0500, wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com>
wrote:
C. GOD'S PERFECTION, GOD GREATER THAN ANYTHING
1. Can god make 2 + 2 = 4? Does god create logic and
the rules of the Universe?
2. A god that can make 2 + 2 = 5 at will is greater
than a god that cannot.
Let A = B
Then AB = A^2
Subtracting B^2 from both sides of the equation yields AB-B^2=A^2-B^2
Factoring both sides gives B(A-B)=(A+B)(A-B)
Divide both sides by (A-B) and you get B=A+B
Adding 3B to both sides gives you B+3B or 2B+2B = A+B+3B
But since A=B, we have 2B+2B=B+B+3B=5B or 2+2=5.
------------------
Gospel Bretts
a.a. Atheist #2262
Fundy Xian Atheist
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever would believe in Him would believe all sorts of
other ridiculous nonsense as well.
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: AA God the Magician - Proof god can make 2 + 2 = 5 and does not exist |
27 Jun 2006 01:56:41 PM |
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Gospel Bretts wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:12:28 -0500, wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com>
wrote:
C. GOD'S PERFECTION, GOD GREATER THAN ANYTHING
1. Can god make 2 + 2 = 4? Does god create logic and
the rules of the Universe?
2. A god that can make 2 + 2 = 5 at will is greater
than a god that cannot.
Let A = B
Then AB = A^2
Subtracting B^2 from both sides of the equation yields AB-B^2=A^2-B^2
Factoring both sides gives B(A-B)=(A+B)(A-B)
Divide both sides by (A-B) and you get B=A+B
Adding 3B to both sides gives you B+3B or 2B+2B = A+B+3B
But since A=B, we have 2B+2B=B+B+3B=5B or 2+2=5.
A = B
A - B + 0
Can't divide by zero.
Reality must be >= 1
God = 0
Universe = 1
1 X 0 = 0
0 is obviously wrong by inspection,
since Universe (1) exists.
Therefore god is not an acceptable
variable since reality must be equal to
or greater than 1.
--
Join the anti-willful-religious-stupidity brigade today.
You will be glad you did.
Our motto: Slap! "Wake up stupid!"
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Carl Kaufmann" |
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| Title: Re: AA God the Magician - Proof god can make 2 + 2 = 5 and does notexist |
27 Jun 2006 11:51:33 AM |
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Gospel Bretts wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:12:28 -0500, wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com>
wrote:
C. GOD'S PERFECTION, GOD GREATER THAN ANYTHING
1. Can god make 2 + 2 = 4? Does god create logic and
the rules of the Universe?
2. A god that can make 2 + 2 = 5 at will is greater
than a god that cannot.
Let A = B
Then AB = A^2
Subtracting B^2 from both sides of the equation yields AB-B^2=A^2-B^2
Factoring both sides gives B(A-B)=(A+B)(A-B)
Divide both sides by (A-B) and you get B=A+B
Division by 0 is a no-no.
Adding 3B to both sides gives you B+3B or 2B+2B = A+B+3B
But since A=B, we have 2B+2B=B+B+3B=5B or 2+2=5.
------------------
Gospel Bretts
a.a. Atheist #2262
Fundy Xian Atheist
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever would believe in Him would believe all sorts of
other ridiculous nonsense as well.
.
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| User: "The Doge of St. Louis" |
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| Title: Re: AA God the Magician - Proof god can make 2 + 2 = 5 and does not exist |
30 Jun 2006 09:50:58 AM |
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In article <pmdog.115249$Ce1.62199@dukeread01>,
Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net> wrote:
Division by 0 is a no-no.
Aha! But if God can do anything then it logically follows that He can
divide by zero.
Neener-neener.
He can also make a rock so heavy that He can't lift it (for you George
Carlin fans).
Personally, I gave up on organized religion (Catholicism in my case)
when it became obvious that I had a lot of questions for which the
Church didn't really have any answers that didn't boil down to either
a) because the Pope says so*
b) it's a Mystery
I probably would have been OK with b) if they hadn't also insisted on
having so much absolute knowledge about something that was so
mysterious. >:-)
*For you non-Catholics: substitute "the Bible", "the Koran", "the
Talmud", "Mohammed", "Jesus", "Yahweh" or - for that matter ""Bob"" in
there to achieve the same result.
--
<*> ObQuote: "I'm in a unique position as [the Emmys'] host because, think about it, what would bug the Taliban more than seeing a gay woman in a suit surrounded by Jews?" - Ellen de Generis
============================================================
<*>The_Doge of St. Louis Stage, screen, radio
http://www.pobox.com/~thedoge/ http://www.stageleft.org
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| User: "Gospel Bretts" |
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| Title: Re: AA God the Magician - Proof god can make 2 + 2 = 5 and does not exist |
27 Jun 2006 12:00:23 PM |
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On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:51:33 -0400, Carl Kaufmann <cwkaufmann@cox.net>
wrote:
Gospel Bretts wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:12:28 -0500, wbarwell <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com>
wrote:
C. GOD'S PERFECTION, GOD GREATER THAN ANYTHING
1. Can god make 2 + 2 = 4? Does god create logic and
the rules of the Universe?
2. A god that can make 2 + 2 = 5 at will is greater
than a god that cannot.
Let A = B
Then AB = A^2
Subtracting B^2 from both sides of the equation yields AB-B^2=A^2-B^2
Factoring both sides gives B(A-B)=(A+B)(A-B)
Divide both sides by (A-B) and you get B=A+B
Division by 0 is a no-no.
Damn.
------------------
Gospel Bretts
a.a. Atheist #2262
Fundy Xian Atheist
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whosoever would believe in Him would believe all sorts of
other ridiculous nonsense as well.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: AA God the Magician - Proof god can make 2 + 2 = 5 and does not exist |
27 Jun 2006 11:45:19 AM |
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wbarwell wrote:
3. God must have all perfections, all positive abilities,
all positive powers.
If god had all perfections and existed, then I'd believe in him, for
that would be part of his perfection. But I don't, therefore he doesn't
exist.
-Will
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