| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
05 Apr 2005 09:43:20 PM |
| Object: |
ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception. [And most of them, especially the Catholics,
are also against artificial birth control, which would
PREVENT the unwanted pregnancies to begin with! ] They are
apparently either ignorant of, or ignoring, GENESIS 2:7 KJV,
which states: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the
ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE,
and man became a living Soul.".
This Biblical statement indicates that human life begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
Another thing to consider is that each of us is
surrounded by a protective energy field usually called an
"AURA", as described in MANY books related to psychic
phenomena. A few people, including psychic futurist Gordon-
Michael Scallion, and the late "Sleeping Prophet" Edgar
Cayce, can actually SEE colored AURAs around people. The
Canadian scientist Frances Nixon developed a way to locate
the boundaries of a person's AURA.
One of the AURA's main purposes is to shield out
discarnate entities from a person's body. If an AURA becomes
weak, because of illness, injury, mind-altering drugs,
alcohol, etc., discarnate entities can sometimes invade and
cause insanity, possession, multiple personalities, etc..
THE AURA OF A HEALTHY PREGNANT WOMAN WOULD LIKEWISE
PREVENT A SOUL FROM ENTERING THE FETUS INSIDE HER.
A Soul that is seeking to REincarnate into this world
KNOWS if Its intended fetus is likely to be aborted before
birth or terminated immediately after birth, and will simply
STAY OUT OF IT.
The purpose of laws in a free country like the United
States should be to protect INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, and prevent
it from being violated by others, NOT to stifle it in the
name of power, control, exploitation, ORTHODOX RELIGION, or
the money-god. Any man-made law which fails that test is
automatically and immediately UN-Constitutional, null and
void.
The INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM of a pregnant woman to control
her own body must likewise be protected.
If the "pro-lifers" would show as much concern for ALL
People AFTER birth as they do for fetus's before birth, the
world could rapidly become a decent place to live in.
Robert E. McElwaine
Eckankar Initiate
http://members.aol.com/rem547 PLUS
http://members.aol.com/rem460
Preserve BOTH on CD-R and PRINT-OUTS
P.S.: LIKE THE TALIBAN, fundamentalist Christians want to
create and MIS-use man-made laws to IMPOSE their self-
righteous religious values against the rest of us.
P.S.2: PASS IT ON !
"EVERYTHING you know is WRONG."
"The Truth IS stranger than fiction."
"The Truth is ALWAYS the FIRST CASUALTY OF WAR."
"OFFICIAL LIES are ALWAYS the BIGGEST LIES OF ALL."
"The more things change, the more they STAY THE SAME."
.
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| User: "Midjis" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 12:01:20 AM |
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<rem460@aol.com> wrote :
This Biblical statement indicates that human life begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
Abortion will always be called murder by those who disapprove of it. It
will always be called "a woman's right to choose" by those who approve.
This, like the very existence of the soul, is one of those questions that,
for the moment, we have no answer to. We do not have the information we
would require to answer it. Thus, it will, for the moment at least, always
come down to a moral question and a personal attitude.
For example, I do not follow your God, and I do not believe in souls.
Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, there is no point at which a soul enters
a body, or at which it leaves. Yet I am not opposed to abortion. I do not
need a complicated Biblical analysis to justify my position to myself.
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 12:35:16 AM |
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On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 00:01:20 +0000 (UTC), "Midjis"
<midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> in alt.abortion with message-id
<d2v8sf$81o$2@titan.btinternet.com> wrote:
<rem460@aol.com> wrote :
This Biblical statement indicates that human life begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
Abortion will always be called murder by those who disapprove of it.
Since murder requires an illegal at and abortion is legal they will
continue to be constantly wrong.
It
will always be called "a woman's right to choose" by those who approve.
This, like the very existence of the soul, is one of those questions that,
for the moment, we have no answer to. We do not have the information we
would require to answer it. Thus, it will, for the moment at least, always
come down to a moral question and a personal attitude.
For example, I do not follow your God, and I do not believe in souls.
Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, there is no point at which a soul enters
a body, or at which it leaves. Yet I am not opposed to abortion. I do not
need a complicated Biblical analysis to justify my position to myself.
.
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| User: "iceman" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 01:21:54 AM |
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"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:6jb651t5ic6vrmvlt7gnikjmqe5s4241fb@4ax.com...
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 00:01:20 +0000 (UTC), "Midjis"
<midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> in alt.abortion with message-id
<d2v8sf$81o$2@titan.btinternet.com> wrote:
<rem460@aol.com> wrote :
This Biblical statement indicates that human life begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
Abortion will always be called murder by those who disapprove of it.
Since murder requires an illegal at and abortion is legal they will
continue to be constantly wrong.
It
will always be called "a woman's right to choose" by those who approve.
This, like the very existence of the soul, is one of those questions that,
for the moment, we have no answer to. We do not have the information we
would require to answer it. Thus, it will, for the moment at least,
always
come down to a moral question and a personal attitude.
For example, I do not follow your God, and I do not believe in souls.
Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, there is no point at which a soul
enters
a body, or at which it leaves. Yet I am not opposed to abortion. I do
not
need a complicated Biblical analysis to justify my position to myself.
Most abortions are done on women who don't believe in abortion, because many
of the same don't believe in birth control, or sex before marriage.
.
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| User: "Mark Sebree" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 02:34:10 AM |
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iceman wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:6jb651t5ic6vrmvlt7gnikjmqe5s4241fb@4ax.com...
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 00:01:20 +0000 (UTC), "Midjis"
<midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> in alt.abortion with message-id
<d2v8sf$81o$2@titan.btinternet.com> wrote:
<rem460@aol.com> wrote :
This Biblical statement indicates that human life
begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an
aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an
older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then
that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
Abortion will always be called murder by those who disapprove of
it.
Since murder requires an illegal at and abortion is legal they will
continue to be constantly wrong.
It
will always be called "a woman's right to choose" by those who
approve.
This, like the very existence of the soul, is one of those
questions that,
for the moment, we have no answer to. We do not have the
information we
would require to answer it. Thus, it will, for the moment at
least,
always
come down to a moral question and a personal attitude.
For example, I do not follow your God, and I do not believe in
souls.
Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, there is no point at which a
soul
enters
a body, or at which it leaves. Yet I am not opposed to abortion.
I do
not
need a complicated Biblical analysis to justify my position to
myself.
Most abortions are done on women who don't believe in abortion,
because many
of the same don't believe in birth control, or sex before marriage.
Wrong on every count. Abortion is almost always voluntary, so the
woman chooses to have an abortion. A significant number of abortions
are (Over 80%) are done on single women, and also over half (at least)
were using contraceptives when they became pregnant.
Abortions are also one of the safest medical procedures known, and have
lower than 1/10 the mortality rate of completing a pregnancy, and even
less chance of serious complications than pregnancy.
Try checking the facts. They are not hard to find if you look at
unbiased sites.
Mark Sebree
.
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| User: "iceman" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 10:02:39 AM |
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"Mark Sebree" <sebree@infionline.net> wrote in message
news:1112754850.818809.325080@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
iceman wrote:
"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:6jb651t5ic6vrmvlt7gnikjmqe5s4241fb@4ax.com...
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 00:01:20 +0000 (UTC), "Midjis"
<midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk> in alt.abortion with message-id
<d2v8sf$81o$2@titan.btinternet.com> wrote:
<rem460@aol.com> wrote :
This Biblical statement indicates that human life
begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an
aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an
older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then
that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
Abortion will always be called murder by those who disapprove of
it.
Since murder requires an illegal at and abortion is legal they will
continue to be constantly wrong.
It
will always be called "a woman's right to choose" by those who
approve.
This, like the very existence of the soul, is one of those
questions that,
for the moment, we have no answer to. We do not have the
information we
would require to answer it. Thus, it will, for the moment at
least,
always
come down to a moral question and a personal attitude.
For example, I do not follow your God, and I do not believe in
souls.
Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, there is no point at which a
soul
enters
a body, or at which it leaves. Yet I am not opposed to abortion.
I do
not
need a complicated Biblical analysis to justify my position to
myself.
Most abortions are done on women who don't believe in abortion,
because many
of the same don't believe in birth control, or sex before marriage.
Wrong on every count. Abortion is almost always voluntary, so the
woman chooses to have an abortion. A significant number of abortions
are (Over 80%) are done on single women, and also over half (at least)
were using contraceptives when they became pregnant.
Abortions are also one of the safest medical procedures known, and have
lower than 1/10 the mortality rate of completing a pregnancy, and even
less chance of serious complications than pregnancy.
Try checking the facts. They are not hard to find if you look at
unbiased sites.
Mark Sebree
OF COURSE, abortions are voluntary! But the guilt-trips laid on young
people especially, contribute mightily to the whole problem.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
08 Apr 2005 06:24:39 PM |
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wrote:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins.
Well, I'm 42, and I'm still waiting for my life to begin !
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
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| User: "Patrick Lee Humphrey" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
09 Apr 2005 06:45:36 AM |
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Jez <iced_spear@NODAMNSPAMpipex.com> writes:
rem460@aol.com wrote:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins.
Well, I'm 42, and I'm still waiting for my life to begin !
42? Damn kid. ;-) (I'm starting to push 50 with a vengeance - for 41 more
days.)
--
Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2004-05 Houston Aeros)
LAST GAME: Cincinnati 3, Houston 0 (April 8)
NEXT GAME: Saturday, April 9 at San Antonio, 6:35
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 09:25:33 AM |
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wrote:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down
to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers"
are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life
begins
at conception. [And most of them, especially the
Catholics,
are also against artificial birth control, which would
PREVENT the unwanted pregnancies to begin with! ] They are
apparently either ignorant of, or ignoring, GENESIS 2:7
KJV,
which states: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of
the
ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE,
and man became a living Soul.".
This Biblical statement indicates that human life
begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an
older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then
that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working
battery
but NO-one to operate it.
More like a computer without a processor.
~Iain
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
10 Apr 2005 05:13:26 PM |
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On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, wrote:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception. [And most of them, especially the Catholics,
are also against artificial birth control, which would
PREVENT the unwanted pregnancies to begin with! ] They are
apparently either ignorant of, or ignoring, GENESIS 2:7 KJV,
which states: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the
ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE,
and man became a living Soul.".
This Biblical statement indicates that human life begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
Another thing to consider is that each of us is
surrounded by a protective energy field usually called an
"AURA", as described in MANY books related to psychic
phenomena. A few people, including psychic futurist Gordon-
Michael Scallion, and the late "Sleeping Prophet" Edgar
Cayce, can actually SEE colored AURAs around people. The
Canadian scientist Frances Nixon developed a way to locate
the boundaries of a person's AURA.
Wow, mega nutcase. {flush}
[snip continuing insanity]
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 10:45:22 PM |
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On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, wrote:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception.
Congratulations. A human fetus/embryo does not grow up to be a dog.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
07 Apr 2005 02:47:37 PM |
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duke wrote:
On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, wrote:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down
to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers"
are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any
clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life
begins
at conception.
Congratulations. A human fetus/embryo does not grow up to be a dog.
Coverting something that would be a human into something that won't be
a human is morally irrelevant.
~Iain
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
08 Apr 2005 07:36:55 PM |
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On 7 Apr 2005 07:47:37 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote:
Coverting something that would be a human into something that won't be
a human is morally irrelevant.
~Iain
True, but a human cell first divided is still a human cell, not a dog cell.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Iain" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 08:50:27 AM |
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duke wrote:
On 7 Apr 2005 07:47:37 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Coverting something that would be a human into something that won't
be
a human is morally irrelevant.
~Iain
True, but a human cell first divided is still a human cell, not a dog
cell.
Individual cells are morally irrelevant.
~Iain
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
08 Apr 2005 08:23:44 PM |
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duke wrote:
On 7 Apr 2005 07:47:37 -0700, "Iain" <iain_inkster@hotmail.com> wrote:
Coverting something that would be a human into something that won't be
a human is morally irrelevant.
~Iain
True, but a human cell first divided is still a human cell, not a dog cell.
I'm so glad duke crawled out of my killfile. It lets me see gems like
this again!
So, when a blastocyst doesn't implant and is evacuated from the woman's
body, is she guilty of murder, or is it involunatary manslaughter?
Please be concise and clear. Thanks, duke!
.
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| User: "skyeyes" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
08 Apr 2005 08:29:03 PM |
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DanielSan wrote:
So, when a blastocyst doesn't implant and is evacuated from the
woman's body, is she guilty of murder, or is it involunatary
manslaughter? Please be concise and clear.
Well, obviously, it's a suicide! ;-P
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
10 Apr 2005 11:01:48 PM |
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On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, while wishing I would go
away, said:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception.
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy
womb" - Genesis 25:23a
"Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did
not one fashion us in the womb?" - Job 31:15
"As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor
how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with
child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who
maketh all." - Ecclesiastes 11:5
"And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though
Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the
eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength."
- Isaiah 49:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and
before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified
thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
- Jeremiah 1:5
"He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by
his strength he had power with God:" - Hosea 12:3
"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and
shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall
be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's
womb." - Luke 1:15
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the
salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and
Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:" - Luke 1:41
"And when eight days were accomplished for the
circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS,
which was so named of the angel before he was conceived
in the womb." - Luke 2:21
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "Tukla Ratte" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 01:56:27 AM |
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Pastor Dave <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> writes:
On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, while wishing I would go
away, said:
< snip >
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy
womb" - Genesis 25:23a
Duelling Whackjobs. My favorite spectator sport!
< snip >
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
aa1347, Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
13 Apr 2005 02:10:38 PM |
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On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:56:27 -0500, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:
Pastor Dave <news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> writes:
On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, while wishing I would go
away, said:
< snip >
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy
womb" - Genesis 25:23a
Duelling Whackjobs. My favorite spectator sport!
< snip >
/me passes out hot buttered popcorn.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
Religion is the original war crime.
-Michelle Malkin (Feb 26, 2005)
.
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| User: "Jim Ledford" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 01:29:31 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, while wishing I would go
away, said:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception.
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy
womb" - Genesis 25:23a
"Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did
not one fashion us in the womb?" - Job 31:15
"As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor
how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with
child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who
maketh all." - Ecclesiastes 11:5
"And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though
Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the
eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength."
- Isaiah 49:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and
before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified
thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
- Jeremiah 1:5
"He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by
his strength he had power with God:" - Hosea 12:3
"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and
shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall
be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's
womb." - Luke 1:15
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the
salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and
Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:" - Luke 1:41
"And when eight days were accomplished for the
circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS,
which was so named of the angel before he was conceived
in the womb." - Luke 2:21
good job Dave. the last time I wanted to toss words
with those who seem to have justified to themselves
baby killing is an ok thing to do, I only referenced
Jeremiah 1:5. I like your additions.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
|
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| User: "DanielSan" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 04:26:18 AM |
|
|
Jim Ledford wrote:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, while wishing I would go
away, said:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception.
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy
womb" - Genesis 25:23a
"Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did
not one fashion us in the womb?" - Job 31:15
"As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor
how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with
child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who
maketh all." - Ecclesiastes 11:5
"And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though
Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the
eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength."
- Isaiah 49:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and
before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified
thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
- Jeremiah 1:5
"He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by
his strength he had power with God:" - Hosea 12:3
"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and
shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall
be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's
womb." - Luke 1:15
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the
salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and
Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:" - Luke 1:41
"And when eight days were accomplished for the
circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS,
which was so named of the angel before he was conceived
in the womb." - Luke 2:21
good job Dave. the last time I wanted to toss words
with those who seem to have justified to themselves
baby killing is an ok thing to do, I only referenced
Jeremiah 1:5. I like your additions.
Well, thankfully, we don't kill babies, so that position is moot. :-)
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 02:58:02 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:29:31 -0400, while wishing I
would go away, Jim Ledford <jimled@bellsouth.net> said:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, while wishing I would go
away, said:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception.
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy
womb" - Genesis 25:23a
"Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did
not one fashion us in the womb?" - Job 31:15
"As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor
how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with
child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who
maketh all." - Ecclesiastes 11:5
"And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though
Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the
eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength."
- Isaiah 49:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and
before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified
thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
- Jeremiah 1:5
"He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by
his strength he had power with God:" - Hosea 12:3
"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and
shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall
be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's
womb." - Luke 1:15
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the
salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and
Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:" - Luke 1:41
"And when eight days were accomplished for the
circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS,
which was so named of the angel before he was conceived
in the womb." - Luke 2:21
good job Dave. the last time I wanted to toss words
with those who seem to have justified to themselves
baby killing is an ok thing to do, I only referenced
Jeremiah 1:5. I like your additions.
"And the angel said to Mary, Behold! Thou art with
zygote! :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "Attila" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 10:54:47 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 02:58:02 GMT, Pastor Dave
<news-group-mail@nospam-tampa-bay.rr.com> in alt.abortion with
message-id <dqpj519qa8ln0fojj1tjvbi96aq5nfldt8@4ax.com> wrote:
Do you really think quotes from an unverified source means anything?
.
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| User: "Jim Ledford" |
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| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 11:25:07 AM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:29:31 -0400, while reading and learning
from another follower of Lord Jesus, Jim Ledford <jimled@bellsouth.net> said:
there now, that attribute more accurately
reflects my thoughts concerning reading you Dave.
Pastor Dave wrote:
On 5 Apr 2005 14:43:20 -0700, while wishing I would go
away, said:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception.
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
"And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy
womb" - Genesis 25:23a
"Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did
not one fashion us in the womb?" - Job 31:15
"As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor
how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with
child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who
maketh all." - Ecclesiastes 11:5
"And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb
to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though
Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the
eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength."
- Isaiah 49:5
"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and
before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified
thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
- Jeremiah 1:5
"He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by
his strength he had power with God:" - Hosea 12:3
"For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and
shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall
be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's
womb." - Luke 1:15
"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the
salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and
Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:" - Luke 1:41
"And when eight days were accomplished for the
circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS,
which was so named of the angel before he was conceived
in the womb." - Luke 2:21
good job Dave. the last time I wanted to toss words
with those who seem to have justified to themselves
baby killing is an ok thing to do, I only referenced
Jeremiah 1:5. I like your additions.
"And the angel said to Mary, Behold! Thou art with
zygote! :)
zygote: a cell formed by the union of two gametes; broadly:
the developing individual produced from such a cell
my new word for today. Thanks Dave:)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 12:09:46 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:25:07 -0400, while Pastor Dave
was preaching from the housetops, Jim Ledford
<jimled@bellsouth.net> spake thusly:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:29:31 -0400, while reading and learning
from another follower of Lord Jesus, Jim Ledford <jimled@bellsouth.net> said:
there now, that attribute more accurately
reflects my thoughts concerning reading you Dave.
Thanks. Better? :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
Silence in the Face of Doctrinal Criticism is Suicide
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
|
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|
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| User: "Secular Fundamentalist" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
05 Apr 2005 11:10:02 PM |
|
|
The gates of alt.atheism slowly swung open, and there stood
rem460@aol.com,who intoned thus:
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception. [And most of them, especially the Catholics,
are also against artificial birth control, which would
PREVENT the unwanted pregnancies to begin with! ] They are
apparently either ignorant of, or ignoring, GENESIS 2:7 KJV,
which states: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the
ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE,
and man became a living Soul.".
This Biblical statement indicates that human life begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
Another thing to consider is that each of us is
surrounded by a protective energy field usually called an
"AURA", as described in MANY books related to psychic
phenomena. A few people, including psychic futurist Gordon-
Michael Scallion, and the late "Sleeping Prophet" Edgar
Cayce, can actually SEE colored AURAs around people. The
Canadian scientist Frances Nixon developed a way to locate
the boundaries of a person's AURA.
One of the AURA's main purposes is to shield out
discarnate entities from a person's body. If an AURA becomes
weak, because of illness, injury, mind-altering drugs,
alcohol, etc., discarnate entities can sometimes invade and
cause insanity, possession, multiple personalities, etc..
THE AURA OF A HEALTHY PREGNANT WOMAN WOULD LIKEWISE
PREVENT A SOUL FROM ENTERING THE FETUS INSIDE HER.
A Soul that is seeking to REincarnate into this world
KNOWS if Its intended fetus is likely to be aborted before
birth or terminated immediately after birth, and will simply
STAY OUT OF IT.
The purpose of laws in a free country like the United
States should be to protect INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, and prevent
it from being violated by others, NOT to stifle it in the
name of power, control, exploitation, ORTHODOX RELIGION, or
the money-god. Any man-made law which fails that test is
automatically and immediately UN-Constitutional, null and
void.
The INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM of a pregnant woman to control
her own body must likewise be protected.
If the "pro-lifers" would show as much concern for ALL
People AFTER birth as they do for fetus's before birth, the
world could rapidly become a decent place to live in.
Robert E. McElwaine
Eckankar Initiate
http://members.aol.com/rem547 PLUS
http://members.aol.com/rem460
Preserve BOTH on CD-R and PRINT-OUTS
P.S.: LIKE THE TALIBAN, fundamentalist Christians want to
create and MIS-use man-made laws to IMPOSE their self-
righteous religious values against the rest of us.
P.S.2: PASS IT ON !
"EVERYTHING you know is WRONG."
"The Truth IS stranger than fiction."
"The Truth is ALWAYS the FIRST CASUALTY OF WAR."
"OFFICIAL LIES are ALWAYS the BIGGEST LIES OF ALL."
"The more things change, the more they STAY THE SAME."
Time to paraphrase Walter Scott:
Oh! What tangled webs we weave,
when first we practice to believe.
David Silverman F.L.A.H.N.
aa #2208
Mistabit doesn't work in mysterious ways, people just don't pay attention.
.
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| User: "MLD" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 01:22:57 AM |
|
|
What does God's Word, the Bible, indicate? It shows that God has high regard
for human life right from its very start. His law to ancient Israel stated:
"In case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant
woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to
have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of
the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. But if
a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul."-Ex.
21:22-25.
Significantly, nothing said here or elsewhere in Scripture indicates that
the age of the embryo or fetus should be a factor in determining whether to
have an abortion. Since God sets forth no such qualifications, it would be
inappropriate for anyone else to try doing so.
It is important to realize that life is passed on, not at birth, but,
rather, when conception occurs. It is then, says the Encyclopędia
Britannica, that "the life-history of the individual, as a distinct and
biological entity, begins." Jehovah certainly has regard for human life
prior to birth, as the psalmist David said of him: "Your eyes saw even the
embryo of me, and in your book all its parts were down in writing, as
regards the days when they were formed and there was not yet one among
them."-Ps. 139:16.
The actual act of abortion is called the "termination of pregnancy." They
try to avoid the moral issue. But the honest truth, simply put, is this:
Abortion is the killing of a human. It makes no difference whether the life
is snuffed out in the uterus within 12 weeks of conception or whether it is
choked to death 12 minutes after it is born! It has been killed.
In Britain, after a 24-week-old aborted fetus lived for 10 minutes, it is
reported that two of the nurses had "horrific nightmares." Some have quit
their profession after such abortion incidents. Seeing the helpless aborted
fetus struggling to live is not a pleasant experience!
<rem460@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112737400.837768.119460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
ABORTION, and WHEN Human Life BEGINS
The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
a question of WHEN human life begins. Many "pro-lifers" are
fundamentalist Christians but are unable to quote any clear
statements from their Bible indicating that human life begins
at conception. [And most of them, especially the Catholics,
are also against artificial birth control, which would
PREVENT the unwanted pregnancies to begin with! ] They are
apparently either ignorant of, or ignoring, GENESIS 2:7 KJV,
which states: "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the
ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE,
and man became a living Soul.".
This Biblical statement indicates that human life begins
(Soul enters its new body) WHEN THE BODY TAKES ITS FIRST
BREATH OF AIR OUT-side THE WOMB. Therefore, if an aborted
fetus's lungs are too undeveloped to breathe, or if an older
fetus is biologically terminated IN-side the womb, then that
abortion can NOT be called "murder", because NO Soul was
present in the fetus.
A fetus is like a laptop computer with a working battery
but NO-one to operate it.
Another thing to consider is that each of us is
surrounded by a protective energy field usually called an
"AURA", as described in MANY books related to psychic
phenomena. A few people, including psychic futurist Gordon-
Michael Scallion, and the late "Sleeping Prophet" Edgar
Cayce, can actually SEE colored AURAs around people. The
Canadian scientist Frances Nixon developed a way to locate
the boundaries of a person's AURA.
One of the AURA's main purposes is to shield out
discarnate entities from a person's body. If an AURA becomes
weak, because of illness, injury, mind-altering drugs,
alcohol, etc., discarnate entities can sometimes invade and
cause insanity, possession, multiple personalities, etc..
THE AURA OF A HEALTHY PREGNANT WOMAN WOULD LIKEWISE
PREVENT A SOUL FROM ENTERING THE FETUS INSIDE HER.
A Soul that is seeking to REincarnate into this world
KNOWS if Its intended fetus is likely to be aborted before
birth or terminated immediately after birth, and will simply
STAY OUT OF IT.
The purpose of laws in a free country like the United
States should be to protect INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, and prevent
it from being violated by others, NOT to stifle it in the
name of power, control, exploitation, ORTHODOX RELIGION, or
the money-god. Any man-made law which fails that test is
automatically and immediately UN-Constitutional, null and
void.
The INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM of a pregnant woman to control
her own body must likewise be protected.
If the "pro-lifers" would show as much concern for ALL
People AFTER birth as they do for fetus's before birth, the
world could rapidly become a decent place to live in.
Robert E. McElwaine
Eckankar Initiate
http://members.aol.com/rem547 PLUS
http://members.aol.com/rem460
Preserve BOTH on CD-R and PRINT-OUTS
P.S.: LIKE THE TALIBAN, fundamentalist Christians want to
create and MIS-use man-made laws to IMPOSE their self-
righteous religious values against the rest of us.
P.S.2: PASS IT ON !
"EVERYTHING you know is WRONG."
"The Truth IS stranger than fiction."
"The Truth is ALWAYS the FIRST CASUALTY OF WAR."
"OFFICIAL LIES are ALWAYS the BIGGEST LIES OF ALL."
"The more things change, the more they STAY THE SAME."
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
06 Apr 2005 04:02:10 AM |
|
|
MLD <watkins@juniorcyberclud.com> wrote:
What does God's Word, the Bible, indicate? It shows that God has high regard
for human life right from its very start.
Except for when God commands his followers to commit mass murder and even genocide.
His law to ancient Israel stated:
"In case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant
woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to
have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of
the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. But if
a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul."-Ex.
21:22-25.
Unless the woman dies the penalty is a fine.
Note, however, that Jesus specifically rejected the "soul for soul"
punishment.
It is important to realize that life is passed on, not at birth, but,
rather, when conception occurs.
That's wrong. Sperm and egg are alive BEFORE conception.
It is then, says the Encyclopędia
Britannica, that "the life-history of the individual, as a distinct and
biological entity, begins."
Lying about the Encyclopedia Brittanica is typical of pro-liars.
The actual act of abortion is called the "termination of pregnancy." They
try to avoid the moral issue. But the honest truth, simply put, is this:
Abortion is the killing of a human.
And that's a bald-faced lie. For all of human history the start of a
human's life has been marked by mirth.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 02:51:06 AM |
|
|
The actual act of abortion is called the "termination of pregnancy."
They
try to avoid the moral issue. But the honest truth, simply put, is
this:
Abortion is the killing of a human.
And that's a bald-faced lie. For all of human history the start of a
human's life has been marked by mirth.
Ray, you are either a compulsive liar, or very ignorant about human
reproduction/development? The start of each individuals life begins
once they start developing, i.e. fertilisation (hint: why do you think
its also called conception?).
TIP: Foetal and embryonic are STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT!
And just because you don't like it, or traditionally this hasn't been
recognised, doesn't make it not so.
Is it some weird religious belief that makes you think the soul enters
the (already existing) body at birth? It goes against all science and
logic, Perhaps you are just in denial?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
11 Apr 2005 03:27:09 AM |
|
|
<legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
The actual act of abortion is called the "termination of pregnancy."
They
try to avoid the moral issue. But the honest truth, simply put, is
this:
Abortion is the killing of a human.
And that's a bald-faced lie. For all of human history the start of a
human's life has been marked by mirth.
Ray, you are either a compulsive liar, or very ignorant about human
reproduction/development?
You're an idiot who doesn't realize that "human being" is a
social/legal term that has nothing to do with reproduction.
The start of each individuals life begins
once they start developing, i.e. fertilisation
Wrong, moron. It's not an INDIVIDUAL untile it is SEPARATE from the
woman. Further, developement starts at MEIOSIS, long before
fertilization.
TIP: Foetal and embryonic are STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT!
So is the gamete stage.
And just because you don't like it, or traditionally this hasn't been
recognised, doesn't make it not so.
And just because you're an irrational anti-abortion zealot doesn't
mean that you're right about anything.
Is it some weird religious belief that makes you think the soul enters
the (already existing) body at birth?
1) I didn't mentiomn anything about a "soul".
2) That "weird religious belief" is called "Christianity".
It goes against all science and
Where's the scientific evidence for a soul, kook?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: ABORTION --- and WHEN Human Life BEGINS |
12 Apr 2005 05:51:15 AM |
|
|
Ray Fischer wrote:
<legend_89@hotmail.com> wrote:
The actual act of abortion is called the "termination of
pregnancy."
They
try to avoid the moral issue. But the honest truth, simply put,
is
this:
Abortion is the killing of a human.
And that's a bald-faced lie. For all of human history the start
of a
human's life has been marked by mirth.
Ray, you are either a compulsive liar, or very ignorant about human
reproduction/development?
You're an idiot who doesn't realize that "human being" is a
social/legal term that has nothing to do with reproduction.
Human being is not a social legal term, it is a term for the type of
species we are. There is no conditions to being a human other than,
being alive and, of the family hominidae. And if YOU don't realise
this, or choose not to accept it doesn't make it untrue.
Ps. the result of sexual reproduction (In humans) is a new individual
human being, so 'human being' does have something to do with
reproduction.
The start of each individuals life begins
once they start developing, i.e. fertilisation
Wrong, moron. It's not an INDIVIDUAL untile it is SEPARATE from the
woman. Further, developement starts at MEIOSIS, long before
fertilization.
Wow, you sound so sure of yourself! And yet you cannot grasp even high
school level understanding of human reproduction/ development.
Meiosis is cell division, specifically sex cell production. Results in
daughter cells with haploid number of chromosomes I.E. HALF the number
of chromosomes characteristically found.
No development can take place until the TWO gamtetes (one from each
parent) have joined. "Because each zygote inherits an equal number of
chromosomes from each parent, the biological ancestors from each side
of the family line contribute genetic information to the new human
being" McGraw-Hill Book Company Australia Pty. Ltd. 2001.
Psychological Science, An Introduction. Bond, Nigel et al. p5.12
Each new human being is a product of both parents (unless a clone).
Meiosis is an important part of REPRODUCTION, it is not the start of
anyones life. Fertilisation is the earliest possible start to a new
human beings life.
The human young does not have to be seperate to be an individual, just
as conjoined twins are both individuals even though they are not
seperate (every strand of hair on your head is an individual strand).
Its just the way placental mammals develop in the early stages of life,
inside their mother. Frogs, in a similar stage of life as a human
foetus, swim around and are called tadpoles. And guess what?! tadpoles
are young frogs just as the human in a feotal stage of development is a
young human being.
TIP: Foetal and embryonic are STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT!
So is the gamete stage.
No, Gametes are sex cells. Development can only begin after
fertilisation, not before the new entity is created.
And just because you don't like it, or traditionally this hasn't
been
recognised, doesn't make it not so.
And just because you're an irrational anti-abortion zealot doesn't
mean that you're right about anything.
No I just respect human rights, ALL humans, even the unborn. I am
against abortion only because the unborn ARE human beings, not because
I THINK they are or they MIGHT be.
Is it some weird religious belief that makes you think the soul
enters
the (already existing) body at birth?
1) I didn't mentiomn anything about a "soul".
Why else would you think that the unborn is unworthy to be a human
being until birth?
2) That "weird religious belief" is called "Christianity".
Nope, thats not it, 'christians' generally support human rights. some
other cult you're part of?
It goes against all science and
Where's the scientific evidence for a soul, kook?
My point exactly, there is plenty of scientific evidence that life
begins at fertilisation, but to believe that a human being comes into
existance after they have being developing for 9 months needs belief in
some kinda' whacko, radical dogma with NO scientific base.
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