Abortion: Fascist Eugenics Masquerading As Choice



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Sound of Trumpet"
Date: 29 Apr 2006 08:52:26 AM
Object: Abortion: Fascist Eugenics Masquerading As Choice
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/abortion-or-eugenics-masquerading-as-choice/2006/03/03/1141191854034.html
Abortion or eugenics masquerading as choice?
By Rachel Gibson
March 4, 2006
A new book claims aborting the less-than-perfect has Nazi undertones.
ALISON Streeter was 10 weeks pregnant when a friend brought her son
around to play. The little boy had a rash but she thought nothing of
it.
When she later discovered the boy had German measles, caused by the
rubella virus, she was distraught. Ms Streeter, from Sydney, has a rare
resistance to the rubella vaccine.
What followed was a period of extreme stress as she waited on test
results to determine whether her unborn child had contracted congenital
rubella syndrome.
In the worst case, the syndrome can cause a baby to be born blind, deaf
and brain-damaged.
But Ms Streeter's anxiety about her child quickly escalated as she
confronted bullying and pressure from a genetic counsellor to abort her
child before the test results were known. She refused and went on to
give birth to a healthy little girl.
Ms Streeter's story is told in a new book by Australian journalist
Melinda Tankard Reist, called Defiant Birth: Women Who Resist Medical
Eugenics.
In a stance that is likely to be controversial, Tankard Reist argues
that Australia is at risk of becoming a society in which disability and
difference are routinely eradicated.
The book is a collection of stories by women from Australia and abroad
who have resisted pressure to abort a less-than-perfect baby. It also
includes accounts from disabled women and women with HIV who were
strongly encouraged not to reproduce for the sake of their offspring.
Tankard Reist takes aim at the medical profession, arguing that by
pressing women to terminate their pregnancies when their babies show
signs of disability, it is practising eugenics (the scientific
improvement of the human race) by another name.
She argues that both the extreme form of eugenics, practised in Nazi
Germany and what she sees as its modern-day practice, "are underpinned
by a belief that there is an unacceptable way of being human ... that
you have to get the genetic stamp of approval before you're allowed to
be born".
Tankard Reist believes the practice is driven by cost as well as the
cultural belief that "normal" babies are better.
She quotes Australian geneticist Professor Grant Sutherland, who has
said that by preventing the birth of a child with Down syndrome, the
community is saved $1 million or more over the child's life.
"It's become a cost-benefit analysis in which the abortion of a child
with a disability becomes a bargain for everybody," she says.
Professor Sutherland, contacted by The Age, said he stood by his
comments. However, he said that while he believed women should have the
option of a termination, he would never tell a woman that she should
abort her child.
Tankard Reist says women who resist the pressure to abort are made to
feel blame and guilt for producing an imperfect child. "They are made
to feel that they should not be supported because they've made bad
reproductive choices."
Tankard Reist, who has previously written a book about women's grief
after abortion, says she supports a woman's right to a termination.
But she believes that their choice is not really a free one in a
society that regards disability as a burden.
"Many women are aborting not because of choice but because of lack of
it," she says. "Women who choose termination for foetal abnormality are
choosing because they know the resources and the support are not going
to be there for their child."
Melbourne woman Leisa Whitaker, who was born with achondroplasia
(dwarfism), recounts in the book that she was asked by her specialist
to consider aborting her first child because it was likely he too would
have the condition.
"He asked us to think about whether we wanted to bring another dwarf
baby into the world," she says.
"It was something I hadn't even thought of. This was our child ... Why
would the world not accept our child?"
She has since given birth to three more children, all with dwarfism,
whom she describes as intelligent, thoughtful and a joy to be around.
Ms Whitaker wonders at the message the culture of perfection sends to
people living with disabilities.
"Does society think we are better off dead?" she asks.
Defiant Birth is published by Spinifex Press. Melinda Tankard Reist
will speak at North Melbourne Town Hall from 2-3.30pm on Sunday as part
of the Story Passions literary festival.
.

User: "Jeff White"

Title: Re: Abortion: Fascist Eugenics Masquerading As Choice 29 Apr 2006 04:53:24 PM
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1146318746.247510.273920@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/abortion-or-eugenics-masquerading-as-choice/2006/03/03/1141191854034.html



Abortion or eugenics masquerading as choice?

By Rachel Gibson

March 4, 2006

A new book claims aborting the less-than-perfect has Nazi undertones.

so we refuse to consider something because we have an emotional aversion to
swastikas? how pavlovian!

ALISON Streeter was 10 weeks pregnant when a friend brought her son
around to play. The little boy had a rash but she thought nothing of
it.

When she later discovered the boy had German measles, caused by the
rubella virus, she was distraught. Ms Streeter, from Sydney, has a rare
resistance to the rubella vaccine.

What followed was a period of extreme stress as she waited on test
results to determine whether her unborn child had contracted congenital
rubella syndrome.

In the worst case, the syndrome can cause a baby to be born blind, deaf
and brain-damaged.

nothing wrong with babies being blind, deaf and brain-damaged. let's pray to
jeebus they ALL come out that way, then they won't be able to look at porno
or listen to heavy metal or question the bible!

But Ms Streeter's anxiety about her child quickly escalated as she
confronted bullying and pressure from a genetic counsellor to abort her
child before the test results were known. She refused and went on to
give birth to a healthy little girl.

the child was lucky, but it just as easily could have not been.

Ms Streeter's story is told in a new book by Australian journalist
Melinda Tankard Reist, called Defiant Birth: Women Who Resist Medical
Eugenics.

In a stance that is likely to be controversial, Tankard Reist argues
that Australia is at risk of becoming a society in which disability and
difference are routinely eradicated.

so we want people who are disabled, dependent and suffering and people who
are so different they feel excluded from society? well, most of those
"different" people wind up naturally unselected when they can't find mates,
so nature takes care of them for us.

The book is a collection of stories by women from Australia and abroad
who have resisted pressure to abort a less-than-perfect baby. It also

she's playing on the emotions of people who believe in the flawed concept
that "nobody is perfect."
as if perfection is objective and concrete.

includes accounts from disabled women and women with HIV who were
strongly encouraged not to reproduce for the sake of their offspring.

disabled women cannot care for their children, nor can orphanages for that
matter.
children with HIV will only die, suffering all the way, unlike an embryo
whose rudimentary brain cannot perceive suffering. this is delaying the
inevitable, and grossly inhumane.

Tankard Reist takes aim at the medical profession, arguing that by
pressing women to terminate their pregnancies when their babies show
signs of disability, it is practising eugenics (the scientific
improvement of the human race) by another name.

no, it is practicing eugenics by the same name. why is eugenics such a bad
thing?

She argues that both the extreme form of eugenics, practised in Nazi
Germany and what she sees as its modern-day practice, "are underpinned

the nazis also practiced banking. should we cease all banking activities
because at sometime, somewhere, a nazi cashed a cheque?

by a belief that there is an unacceptable way of being human ... that

what does being human mean, anyway? one could say it only means you're able
to breed with other humans (thus you haven't speciated), or that you have an
opposable thumb.

you have to get the genetic stamp of approval before you're allowed to
be born".

and this is a bad idea? should we simply breed all the garbage we can
(nature tends to fail more than succeed) and work very hard to keep it
alive? has anyone considered the possibility that a low infant mortality
rate is a /bad/ thing?

Tankard Reist believes the practice is driven by cost as well as the
cultural belief that "normal" babies are better.

ah, yes, the old "it's only money" argument. actually, it isn't only money,
it's someone's hard work and effort. callously wasting someone else's money
on emotions is theft and is tantamount to slavery.

She quotes Australian geneticist Professor Grant Sutherland, who has
said that by preventing the birth of a child with Down syndrome, the
community is saved $1 million or more over the child's life.

which means that for every four children with down's syndrome, one working
american would have to be enslaved to provide for them.

"It's become a cost-benefit analysis in which the abortion of a child
with a disability becomes a bargain for everybody," she says.

no, it has to do with the fact that a welfare state with huge entitlements
is an enslavement on the backs of healthy, productive people.

Professor Sutherland, contacted by The Age, said he stood by his
comments. However, he said that while he believed women should have the
option of a termination, he would never tell a woman that she should
abort her child.

we need to get over this notion that breeding is a right. when you breed,
you're making a decision for an entirely different person. you don't have
the right to arbitrarily end someone else's life, why should you have the
right to arbitrarily begin someone else's life?

Tankard Reist says women who resist the pressure to abort are made to
feel blame and guilt for producing an imperfect child. "They are made
to feel that they should not be supported because they've made bad
reproductive choices."

as they should. another human will suffer and possibly die for her religious
beliefs.

Tankard Reist, who has previously written a book about women's grief
after abortion, says she supports a woman's right to a termination.

the grief is conditioned.

But she believes that their choice is not really a free one in a
society that regards disability as a burden.

"Many women are aborting not because of choice but because of lack of
it," she says. "Women who choose termination for foetal abnormality are
choosing because they know the resources and the support are not going
to be there for their child."

and even if the resources and support were there, it would be a 24 hour a
day job to care for the child. this woman should suffer through such a life
because she decided to have a little fun one night? better to go through the
grief.

Melbourne woman Leisa Whitaker, who was born with achondroplasia
(dwarfism), recounts in the book that she was asked by her specialist
to consider aborting her first child because it was likely he too would
have the condition.

"He asked us to think about whether we wanted to bring another dwarf
baby into the world," she says.

"It was something I hadn't even thought of. This was our child ... Why
would the world not accept our child?"

because the world is a cruel and unforgiving place where only the strong
survive.

She has since given birth to three more children, all with dwarfism,
whom she describes as intelligent, thoughtful and a joy to be around.

and what options have they to be independent as adults? are they going to
be able to work?

Ms Whitaker wonders at the message the culture of perfection sends to
people living with disabilities.

"Does society think we are better off dead?" she asks.

some people are, unfortunately; just as a terminal cancer patient.

Defiant Birth is published by Spinifex Press. Melinda Tankard Reist
will speak at North Melbourne Town Hall from 2-3.30pm on Sunday as part
of the Story Passions literary festival.

.

User: "Josef Balluch"

Title: Re: Abortion: Fascist Eugenics Masquerading As Choice 29 Apr 2006 11:14:47 PM
In a message sent 'round the world, Sound of Trumpet poured fuel on the
fire with the following:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/abortion-or-eugenics-masquerading-as-choice/2006/03/03/1141191854034.html
Abortion or eugenics masquerading as choice?

By Rachel Gibson

March 4, 2006

A new book claims aborting the less-than-perfect has Nazi undertones.

< chuckle! > What would the pro-lie crowd do without their much loved
Nazi "connection"? To them it might seem a gift from heaven. However,
eugenics has been practiced for thousands of years, including the
ancient Greeks and the ancient Romans. More recently there have been
"seed" projects such as the "Nobel Prize Sperm Bank". The simplistic
idea that eugenics equals Naziism just doesn't wash.
As well, for WoT/SoT's benefit it can be pointed out that Nazi Germany
was a christian nation. It is also worth noting that the religious
opposition to incest and marriage between close relatives is eugenics,
as is the Vatican's opposition to human cloning.
Regards,
Josef
Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.
-- Marcus Aurelius
.
User: "Emmanual Kann"

Title: Re: Abortion: Fascist Eugenics Masquerading As Choice 03 May 2006 10:13:50 AM
An Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:14:47 -0400, Josef Balluch hat geschreibt:

It is also worth noting that the religious
opposition to incest and marriage between close relatives is eugenics,
as is the Vatican's opposition to human cloning.

Absolutely. Where would the human race be without incest? Extinct 6,000
years ago, if you believe in Adam and Eve.
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Abortion: Fascist Eugenics Masquerading As Choice 02 May 2006 11:20:23 PM
Thanxx to Jeff White !
! and Josef Balluch for expert commentary.
sector_four
"AND god SAID:'THINK I DON'T LOVE ABORTION? THINK AGAIN'."
(HOSEA 13:16)
Book of Pope-Jonni 4:1
.


User: ""

Title: Fascist Diatribe: Re: Abortion: "Eugenics" Masquerading As Choice 29 Apr 2006 09:03:32 AM
One of the techniques of right-wing religious fascists is to present
themselves as the victims of the very sort of racist, fascist politics
they promote. This article is yet another example of the genre.
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/abortion-or-eugenics-masquerading-as-choice/2006/03/03/1141191854034.html



Abortion or eugenics masquerading as choice?

By Rachel Gibson

March 4, 2006

A new book claims aborting the less-than-perfect has Nazi undertones.


ALISON Streeter was 10 weeks pregnant when a friend brought her son
around to play. The little boy had a rash but she thought nothing of
it.

When she later discovered the boy had German measles, caused by the
rubella virus, she was distraught. Ms Streeter, from Sydney, has a rare
resistance to the rubella vaccine.

What followed was a period of extreme stress as she waited on test
results to determine whether her unborn child had contracted congenital
rubella syndrome.

In the worst case, the syndrome can cause a baby to be born blind, deaf
and brain-damaged.

But Ms Streeter's anxiety about her child quickly escalated as she
confronted bullying and pressure from a genetic counsellor to abort her
child before the test results were known. She refused and went on to
give birth to a healthy little girl.

Ms Streeter's story is told in a new book by Australian journalist
Melinda Tankard Reist, called Defiant Birth: Women Who Resist Medical
Eugenics.

In a stance that is likely to be controversial, Tankard Reist argues
that Australia is at risk of becoming a society in which disability and
difference are routinely eradicated.

The book is a collection of stories by women from Australia and abroad
who have resisted pressure to abort a less-than-perfect baby. It also
includes accounts from disabled women and women with HIV who were
strongly encouraged not to reproduce for the sake of their offspring.

Tankard Reist takes aim at the medical profession, arguing that by
pressing women to terminate their pregnancies when their babies show
signs of disability, it is practising eugenics (the scientific
improvement of the human race) by another name.

She argues that both the extreme form of eugenics, practised in Nazi
Germany and what she sees as its modern-day practice, "are underpinned
by a belief that there is an unacceptable way of being human ... that
you have to get the genetic stamp of approval before you're allowed to
be born".

Tankard Reist believes the practice is driven by cost as well as the
cultural belief that "normal" babies are better.

She quotes Australian geneticist Professor Grant Sutherland, who has
said that by preventing the birth of a child with Down syndrome, the
community is saved $1 million or more over the child's life.

"It's become a cost-benefit analysis in which the abortion of a child
with a disability becomes a bargain for everybody," she says.

Professor Sutherland, contacted by The Age, said he stood by his
comments. However, he said that while he believed women should have the
option of a termination, he would never tell a woman that she should
abort her child.

Tankard Reist says women who resist the pressure to abort are made to
feel blame and guilt for producing an imperfect child. "They are made
to feel that they should not be supported because they've made bad
reproductive choices."

Tankard Reist, who has previously written a book about women's grief
after abortion, says she supports a woman's right to a termination.

But she believes that their choice is not really a free one in a
society that regards disability as a burden.

"Many women are aborting not because of choice but because of lack of
it," she says. "Women who choose termination for foetal abnormality are
choosing because they know the resources and the support are not going
to be there for their child."

Melbourne woman Leisa Whitaker, who was born with achondroplasia
(dwarfism), recounts in the book that she was asked by her specialist
to consider aborting her first child because it was likely he too would
have the condition.

"He asked us to think about whether we wanted to bring another dwarf
baby into the world," she says.

"It was something I hadn't even thought of. This was our child ... Why
would the world not accept our child?"

She has since given birth to three more children, all with dwarfism,
whom she describes as intelligent, thoughtful and a joy to be around.

Ms Whitaker wonders at the message the culture of perfection sends to
people living with disabilities.

"Does society think we are better off dead?" she asks.


Defiant Birth is published by Spinifex Press. Melinda Tankard Reist
will speak at North Melbourne Town Hall from 2-3.30pm on Sunday as part
of the Story Passions literary festival.

.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: Abortion: Fascist Eugenics Masquerading As Choice 29 Apr 2006 09:21:28 AM
Previously, on alt.atheism, Sound of Trumpet in episode
<1146318746.247510.273920@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>...

A new book claims aborting the less-than-perfect has Nazi undertones.

Paging Godwin! Paging Godwin! Mister Godwin, please pick up the white
supremacy phone...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"Corps chief admits to 'design failure'"
(Took them long enough)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3EF62DEC
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.


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