absolute rot..... as written by mel

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"ur_droll"
Date:	22 Aug 2004 01:45:26 PM
Object:	absolute rot..... as written by mel

Absolute rot.... by mel
everyone daily faces the problem of making decisions without complete
knowledge of the situation. hence the term "risk" and an entire industry set
up to mitigate risk (insurance).
think of believing in God as fire insurance.
an example of a poor choice is taking the risk of burning in Hell for all
eternity. not a small risk, not so?
well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true. all
of it.
then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.
yes, keep believing I am weak. that'll make my job easier.
BWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You called it
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	23 Aug 2004 06:48:01 AM

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in
alt.abortion with message-id <hT5Wc.16497$N77.662237@news.xtra.co.nz>
wrote:

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

an example of a poor choice is taking the risk of burning in Hell for all
eternity. not a small risk, not so?

Unless you choose the wrong god. If you don't get the right one you
are in a heap of trouble, and there is absolutely no way to tell which
is the right one. You close your eyes and take your chances at odds
of several hundred to one.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true. all
of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.

my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.
.

User: "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	23 Aug 2004 12:05:11 PM

Attila wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.
you might consider scripture as being valueless, just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote. Believers
consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

an example of a poor choice is taking the risk of burning in Hell for all
eternity. not a small risk, not so?

that's what is called Faith. It's not your decision to make. You only get to
decide what you choose to believe.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true.
all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.
Choosing (or not choosing) a religion is just like choosing a political
party to vote for. You make a choice with which you are most comfortable.

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.

most religions have a fear of punishment concept. it's not out of place.
--
zoogar
http://www.atjfaq.com/
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 11/08/04
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	23 Aug 2004 04:10:32 PM

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"
<zoogar@mailinator.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<2ouon1FeodojU1@uni-berlin.de> wrote:

Attila wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.

If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote. Believers
consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

With no rational reason for any such belief, especially in the god
chosen.

an example of a poor choice is taking the risk of burning in Hell for all
eternity. not a small risk, not so?

that's what is called Faith. It's not your decision to make. You only get to
decide what you choose to believe.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true.
all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.

I would not call closing your eyes and throwing dice a decision.

Choosing (or not choosing) a religion is just like choosing a political
party to vote for. You make a choice with which you are most comfortable.

Interesting. So your 'immortal soul' and 'eternal life' all hinge on
choosing what makes you the most comfortable?

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.

most religions have a fear of punishment concept. it's not out of place.

Of course they do. That is the way they keep converts and eliminate
the competition.
.

User: "Mel"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	23 Aug 2004 04:48:27 PM

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <a2nki0prps44dov55pn05oo90dcjkbd2eq@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"

Attila wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.

If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.

LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

....wow...

just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote. Believers
consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

With no rational reason for any such belief, especially in the god
chosen.

there is definitely rational reason for such belief.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true.
all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.

I would not call closing your eyes and throwing dice a decision.

nor would I.

Choosing (or not choosing) a religion is just like choosing a political
party to vote for. You make a choice with which you are most comfortable.

Interesting. So your 'immortal soul' and 'eternal life' all hinge on
choosing what makes you the most comfortable?

something like that.

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.

most religions have a fear of punishment concept. it's not out of place.

Of course they do. That is the way they keep converts and eliminate
the competition.

sure. why not? after all, they all have to survive in a fierce Darwinian
world of religion eats religion. LOL
Just ask the Angel Moron. or the moron Angel.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfaq.com
http://www.atjfaq.com/
.

User: "GP of ATJ"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	24 Aug 2004 05:20:39 AM

"Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> wrote in message
news:1cpki05rrpvvg0kjn3u09g856to6rftmiq@4ax.com...

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <a2nki0prps44dov55pn05oo90dcjkbd2eq@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"

Attila wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in

Absolute rot.... by mel
everyone daily faces the problem of making decisions without complete
knowledge of the situation. hence the term "risk" and an entire

industry

set up to mitigate risk (insurance).
think of believing in God as fire insurance.

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.

If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.

LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

did your mommy show you how to spell that fag boy?

just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote.

Believers

consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

With no rational reason for any such belief, especially in the god
chosen.

there is definitely rational reason for such belief.

which you have none fag boy.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be

true.

all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.

I would not call closing your eyes and throwing dice a decision.

nor would I.

liar.

Choosing (or not choosing) a religion is just like choosing a political
party to vote for. You make a choice with which you are most

comfortable.

Interesting. So your 'immortal soul' and 'eternal life' all hinge on
choosing what makes you the most comfortable?

something like that.

you wouldn't know fag boy.

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my

belief in

God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a

Sunday

School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.

most religions have a fear of punishment concept. it's not out of place.

Of course they do. That is the way they keep converts and eliminate
the competition.

sure. why not? after all, they all have to survive in a fierce Darwinian
world of religion eats religion. LOL

stay with your monkeys fag boy.

Just ask the Angel Moron. or the moron Angel.

why don't you ask your mommy fag boy?
Why is my Uncle Ted like Dodi's chauffeur?
Because he also used to drive a Princess before he smashed it up.

--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfag.com
http://www.atjfag.com/

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	24 Aug 2004 08:26:06 AM

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:48:27 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<1cpki05rrpvvg0kjn3u09g856to6rftmiq@4ax.com> wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <a2nki0prps44dov55pn05oo90dcjkbd2eq@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"

Attila wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.

If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.

LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL

Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote. Believers
consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

With no rational reason for any such belief, especially in the god
chosen.

there is definitely rational reason for such belief.

No, there is not. Religion and rationality are self-excluding.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true.
all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.

I would not call closing your eyes and throwing dice a decision.

nor would I.

It's as much of a decision as deciding which religion is 'correct',
especially when nothing indicates any of them are.

Choosing (or not choosing) a religion is just like choosing a political
party to vote for. You make a choice with which you are most comfortable.

Interesting. So your 'immortal soul' and 'eternal life' all hinge on
choosing what makes you the most comfortable?

something like that.

Amusing. Can I choose a liberal supply of drinks and temple virgins
constantly available?

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.

most religions have a fear of punishment concept. it's not out of place.

Of course they do. That is the way they keep converts and eliminate
the competition.

sure. why not? after all, they all have to survive in a fierce Darwinian
world of religion eats religion. LOL

History seems to indicate this. All religions call for the
elimination of rivals.
.

User: "Vanilla Gorilla Monkey Boy"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	24 Aug 2004 11:09:38 AM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
<l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.
--
V.G.
Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"I wanted a car I could run down pedestrians with. But one with a comfy ride, like a sofa on wheels." - Father Haskell
"No doubt about it, 9-11 was orchestrated by Lockheed." - *lexa 'connects the dots' 4/27/04 (cg5t80pl73d7r1s8113tqd19qse0ji0nrq@4ax.com)
"Nope, Lockheed provided the cover for 9-11 due to abuses of it's system. They're guilty as charged. But ultimately it was Bechtel who concocted the
9-11 events." Alexa connects some totally different dots. 8/6/04 (n3p8h0lvp0u3tj0j4vi7gjmo069gb96fhm@4ax.com)
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	24 Aug 2004 12:42:57 PM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:09:38 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<71qmi0d5p7rpr30pknv2sun7llta1dd3a8@4ax.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
<l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.

Generally those who adhere to some form of religion (whatever it is)
are so certain they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is
wrong they are unable to comprehend any other position.
.

User: "ur_droll"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	24 Aug 2004 01:13:36 PM

"Attila" <prochoice@here.now> wrote in message
news:udvmi0ps5fuim0q5ov6uqglgvb89guf6g9@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:09:38 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
: <vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
: <71qmi0d5p7rpr30pknv2sun7llta1dd3a8@4ax.com> wrote:
:
: >On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
: >in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
: ><l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:
: >
: >>>>>you might consider scripture as being valueless,
: >>>>I do.
: >>>
: >>>...wow...
: >>
: >>Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
: >>your superstition? Whatever it is?
: >
: >Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.
:
: Generally those who adhere to some form of religion (whatever it is)
: are so certain they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is
: wrong they are unable to comprehend any other position.
It's called brain washing...... in mels case it was just a wash
.

User: "Vanilla Gorilla Monkey Boy"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	24 Aug 2004 10:32:24 PM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:42:57 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
<udvmi0ps5fuim0q5ov6uqglgvb89guf6g9@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:09:38 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<71qmi0d5p7rpr30pknv2sun7llta1dd3a8@4ax.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
<l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.

Generally those who adhere to some form of religion (whatever it is)
are so certain they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is
wrong they are unable to comprehend any other position.

Mel's "religion" is "crack junkie". He jabbers a lot, but has never
shown any signs of actually believing in anything else.
--
V.G.
Change pobox dot alaska to gci.
"I wanted a car I could run down pedestrians with. But one with a comfy ride, like a sofa on wheels." - Father Haskell
"No doubt about it, 9-11 was orchestrated by Lockheed." - *lexa 'connects the dots' 4/27/04 (cg5t80pl73d7r1s8113tqd19qse0ji0nrq@4ax.com)
"Nope, Lockheed provided the cover for 9-11 due to abuses of it's system. They're guilty as charged. But ultimately it was Bechtel who concocted the
9-11 events." Alexa connects some totally different dots. 8/6/04 (n3p8h0lvp0u3tj0j4vi7gjmo069gb96fhm@4ax.com)
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 05:27:53 AM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:32:24 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<v02oi0h2atm7qsslmljiuaicvlsg5cupgc@4ax.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:42:57 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
<udvmi0ps5fuim0q5ov6uqglgvb89guf6g9@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:09:38 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<71qmi0d5p7rpr30pknv2sun7llta1dd3a8@4ax.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
<l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.

Generally those who adhere to some form of religion (whatever it is)
are so certain they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is
wrong they are unable to comprehend any other position.

Mel's "religion" is "crack junkie". He jabbers a lot, but has never
shown any signs of actually believing in anything else.

As long as he doesn't try to push it on anyone else who cares?
.

User: "Mel"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 04:31:29 AM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:32:24 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote in message
<v02oi0h2atm7qsslmljiuaicvlsg5cupgc@4ax.com>:

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.

Generally those who adhere to some form of religion (whatever it is)
are so certain they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is
wrong they are unable to comprehend any other position.

Mel's "religion" is "crack junkie".

not anymore.

He jabbers a lot, but has never shown any signs of actually believing
in anything else.

i still enjoy making jokes about crack. it's joke fodder.
even the late Jack Lemmon made jokes about crack.
there's this one out-take at the end of a movie (i forget which one now)
where he says, "Say, have you got any... um... crack on ya?" he forgot his
line, and so finished it off like that. it was hilarious. you'd have to see
it for yourself.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfaq.com
http://www.atjfaq.com/
.

User: "DrPostman"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 12:51:20 AM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 19:32:24 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:42:57 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
<udvmi0ps5fuim0q5ov6uqglgvb89guf6g9@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:09:38 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> in alt.abortion with message-id
<71qmi0d5p7rpr30pknv2sun7llta1dd3a8@4ax.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in alt.tasteless.jokes in message
<l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.

Generally those who adhere to some form of religion (whatever it is)
are so certain they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is
wrong they are unable to comprehend any other position.

Mel's "religion" is "crack junkie". He jabbers a lot, but has never
shown any signs of actually believing in anything else.

He fervently believes in slitting throats though.
--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT� member
#15-51506-253. AFA-B Official Pollster.
You can email me at: DrJaiMaharajFraud(at)hotmail.com
"Prooves your a idiot!"
- Ferrt displays his brilliance
.

User: "Mel"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 02:37:44 AM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:42:57 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <udvmi0ps5fuim0q5ov6uqglgvb89guf6g9@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:09:38 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.

Generally those who adhere to some form of religion (whatever it is)
are so certain they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is
wrong they are unable to comprehend any other position.

sure. i've met plenty of Christians like that. most of them old women who've
been housewives their entire lives.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfaq.com
http://www.atjfaq.com/
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 05:28:53 AM

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:37:44 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<kcfoi0lmdlf19aev0tjm4f7j89c6dvihjl@4ax.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:42:57 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <udvmi0ps5fuim0q5ov6uqglgvb89guf6g9@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:09:38 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.

Generally those who adhere to some form of religion (whatever it is)
are so certain they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is
wrong they are unable to comprehend any other position.

sure. i've met plenty of Christians like that. most of them old women who've
been housewives their entire lives.

Not all of them - unfortunately.
.

User: "Mel"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 02:37:43 AM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:09:38 -0800, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote in message
<71qmi0d5p7rpr30pknv2sun7llta1dd3a8@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

Mel's lack of awareness, of everything, is legendary.

dry yer tears.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfaq.com
http://www.atjfaq.com/
.

User: "Mel"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 02:37:40 AM

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:48:27 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"

Attila wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.

If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.

LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL

Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.

scripture is evidence.

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

i'm unmoved by that argument.

just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote. Believers
consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

With no rational reason for any such belief, especially in the god
chosen.

there is definitely rational reason for such belief.

No, there is not. Religion and rationality are self-excluding.

so you assert, but no sale here.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true.
all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.

I would not call closing your eyes and throwing dice a decision.

nor would I.

It's as much of a decision as deciding which religion is 'correct',
especially when nothing indicates any of them are.

Jesus is the only one who died to save the entire world. everyone has their
particular reasons.

Choosing (or not choosing) a religion is just like choosing a political
party to vote for. You make a choice with which you are most comfortable.

Interesting. So your 'immortal soul' and 'eternal life' all hinge on
choosing what makes you the most comfortable?

something like that.

Amusing. Can I choose a liberal supply of drinks and temple virgins
constantly available?

you can do whatever you want. some religions have a long history and
tradition and scripture behind them that tends to lend them more
credibility, though. you may want to bear that in mind when you consider
your options.

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.

most religions have a fear of punishment concept. it's not out of place.

Of course they do. That is the way they keep converts and eliminate
the competition.

sure. why not? after all, they all have to survive in a fierce Darwinian
world of religion eats religion. LOL

History seems to indicate this. All religions call for the
elimination of rivals.

actually, it's mostly fundamental zealots in religions who do that. the
religion itself is more concerned with it's own story and articles of faith.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfaq.com
http://www.atjfaq.com/
.

User: "ur_droll"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 07:03:33 AM

"Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> wrote in message
news:v1foi05l3lgh6cmg1f7fngfldi26ha7tfe@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
: message <l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:
: >On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:48:27 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in
: >>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
: >>>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"
: >>>>Attila wrote:
: >>>>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co>
in
: >>>>>> Absolute rot.... by mel
: >>>>>> everyone daily faces the problem of making decisions without
complete
: >>>>>> knowledge of the situation. hence the term "risk" and an entire
industry
: >>>>>> set up to mitigate risk (insurance).
: >>>>>> think of believing in God as fire insurance.
: >>>>> But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of
them.
: >>>>if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.
: >>>If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
: >>>One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.
: >>LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL
: >Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.
:
: scripture is evidence.
:
: >>>>you might consider scripture as being valueless,
: >>>I do.
: >>...wow...
: >Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
: >your superstition? Whatever it is?
:
: i'm unmoved by that argument.
:
Of course not....... for you to be "moved"....
butt cheeks need to be squeezed
.

User: "GP of ATJ"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 09:19:54 AM

"ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> wrote in message
news:Ke%Wc.17722$N77.700608@news.xtra.co.nz...

: >>>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"
: >>>>Attila wrote:
: >>>>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co>
in
: >>>>>> Absolute rot.... by mel
: >>>>>> everyone daily faces the problem of making decisions without
complete
: >>>>>> knowledge of the situation. hence the term "risk" and an entire
industry
: >>>>>> set up to mitigate risk (insurance).
: >>>>>> think of believing in God as fire insurance.
: >>>>> But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of
them.
: >>>>if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.
: >>>If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
: >>>One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.
: >>LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL
: >Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.
:
: scripture is evidence.
:
: >>>>you might consider scripture as being valueless,
: >>>I do.
: >>...wow...
: >Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
: >your superstition? Whatever it is?
:
: i'm unmoved by that argument.
:

Of course not....... for you to be "moved"....
butt cheeks need to be squeezed

nothing can move his fat ***** kiwi.
What was the last thing Diana & Dodi had to drink?
4 Harvey Wallbangers, 2 Slammers, followed by 7 chasers and a Pina
Colida

User: "Mel"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 12:40:15 PM

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:03:33 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> wrote in
message <Ke%Wc.17722$N77.700608@news.xtra.co.nz>:

"Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> wrote in message
: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
: >On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:48:27 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in
: >>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
: >>>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"
: >>>>Attila wrote:
: >>>>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co>
: >>>>>> Absolute rot.... by mel
: >>>>>> everyone daily faces the problem of making decisions without
complete
: >>>>>> knowledge of the situation. hence the term "risk" and an entire
industry
: >>>>>> set up to mitigate risk (insurance).
: >>>>>> think of believing in God as fire insurance.
: >>>>> But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of
them.
: >>>>if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.
: >>>If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
: >>>One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.
: >>LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL
: >Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.
: scripture is evidence.
: >>>>you might consider scripture as being valueless,
: >>>I do.
: >>...wow...
: >Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
: >your superstition? Whatever it is?
: i'm unmoved by that argument.
Of course not....... for you to be "moved"....
butt cheeks need to be squeezed

talking about your favourite topic again, eh Colin.
"I always have you (*****) on my mind!"
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfaq.com
http://www.atjfaq.com/
.

User: "ur_droll"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 01:30:49 PM

"Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> wrote in message
news:bmjpi09sspb81laqbsrhroja2vebrob0ke@4ax.com...
: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:03:33 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> wrote
in
: message <Ke%Wc.17722$N77.700608@news.xtra.co.nz>:
: >"Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> wrote in message
: >: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in
: >: >On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:48:27 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in
: >: >>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in
: >: >>>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"
: >: >>>>Attila wrote:
: >: >>>>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll"
<who.gives@*****.co>
: >: >>>>>> Absolute rot.... by mel
: >: >>>>>> everyone daily faces the problem of making decisions without
: >complete
: >: >>>>>> knowledge of the situation. hence the term "risk" and an entire
: >industry
: >: >>>>>> set up to mitigate risk (insurance).
: >: >>>>>> think of believing in God as fire insurance.
: >: >>>>> But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of
: >them.
: >: >>>>if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.
: >: >>>If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
: >: >>>One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.
: >: >>LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL
: >: >Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.
: >: scripture is evidence.
: >: >>>>you might consider scripture as being valueless,
: >: >>>I do.
: >: >>...wow...
: >: >Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
: >: >your superstition? Whatever it is?
: >: i'm unmoved by that argument.
: >Of course not....... for you to be "moved"....
: >butt cheeks need to be squeezed
:
: talking about your favourite topic again, eh Colin.
:
: "I always have you (*****) on my mind!"
correction.... you have ***** 'in' yer mind
.

User: "GP of ATJ"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 02:25:32 PM

"ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> wrote in message
news:NV4Xc.17790$N77.705266@news.xtra.co.nz...

wrote

in
: >: >>>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"
: >: >>>>Attila wrote:
: >: >>>>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll"
<who.gives@*****.co>
: >: >>>>>> Absolute rot.... by mel
: >: >>>>>> everyone daily faces the problem of making decisions without
: >complete
: >: >>>>>> knowledge of the situation. hence the term "risk" and an

entire

: >industry
: >: >>>>>> set up to mitigate risk (insurance).
: >: >>>>>> think of believing in God as fire insurance.
: >: >>>>> But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of
: >them.
: >: >>>>if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.
: >: >>>If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
: >: >>>One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.
: >: >>LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL
: >: >Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.
: >: scripture is evidence.
: >: >>>>you might consider scripture as being valueless,
: >: >>>I do.
: >: >>...wow...
: >: >Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
: >: >your superstition? Whatever it is?
: >: i'm unmoved by that argument.
: >Of course not....... for you to be "moved"....
: >butt cheeks need to be squeezed
:
: talking about your favourite topic again, eh Colin.
:
: "I always have you (*****) on my mind!"

correction.... I have '*****' in my mind

that sounds right for you kiwi.
What do Diana and Versace have in common?
They both get screwed by queens and die.

User: "newBjorn"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	26 Aug 2004 01:29:39 AM

"ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> wrote in message news:<NV4Xc.17790$N77.705266@news.xtra.co.nz>...

"Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> wrote in message
news:bmjpi09sspb81laqbsrhroja2vebrob0ke@4ax.com...
: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:03:33 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> wrote
in
: message <Ke%Wc.17722$N77.700608@news.xtra.co.nz>:
: >"Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> wrote in message
: >: On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in
: >: >On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:48:27 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in
: >: >>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote
in
: >: >>>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"
: >: >>>>Attila wrote:
: >: >>>>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll"
<who.gives@*****.co>
: >: >>>>>> Absolute rot.... by mel
: >: >>>>>> everyone daily faces the problem of making decisions without
complete
: >: >>>>>> knowledge of the situation. hence the term "risk" and an entire
industry
: >: >>>>>> set up to mitigate risk (insurance).
: >: >>>>>> think of believing in God as fire insurance.
: >: >>>>> But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of
them.
: >: >>>>if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.
: >: >>>If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
: >: >>>One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.
: >: >>LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL
: >: >Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.
scripture is evidence.
: >: >>>>you might consider scripture as being valueless,
: >: >>>I do.
: >: >>...wow...
: >: >Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
: >: >your superstition? Whatever it is?
: >: i'm unmoved by that argument.
: >Of course not....... for you to be "moved"....
: >butt cheeks need to be squeezed
:
: talking about your favourite topic again, eh Colin.
:
: "I always have you (*****) on my mind!"

correction.... you have ***** 'in' yer mind

the scent on his lips
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 05:38:07 AM

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:37:40 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<v1foi05l3lgh6cmg1f7fngfldi26ha7tfe@4ax.com> wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <l5gmi0hqetkln4ori9543co4n4fvq8it0u@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:48:27 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"

Attila wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.

If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.

LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL

Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.

scripture is evidence.

Oh? Then "Gone With The Wind" proves there was a Tara and Scarlett
and Rett were actual people.
Not to mention how Tolken proves Hobbits and Middle Earth exist.

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

i'm unmoved by that argument.

It isn't an argument. It's an observation of fact you cannot dispute.

just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote. Believers
consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

With no rational reason for any such belief, especially in the god
chosen.

there is definitely rational reason for such belief.

No, there is not. Religion and rationality are self-excluding.

so you assert, but no sale here.

Of course not.
If you *actually* believe this life is merely a short
prelude to the one to come and if you *actually* believe
that one form of magic will enable you to live it in bliss
and another, slightly different form will cast you into
eternal fire, then anyone pushing the wrong magic is the
worst imaginable kind of criminal, far worse than a mere
murderer.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true.
all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.

I would not call closing your eyes and throwing dice a decision.

nor would I.

It's as much of a decision as deciding which religion is 'correct',
especially when nothing indicates any of them are.

Jesus is the only one who died to save the entire world. everyone has their
particular reasons.

Yet no one has ever proven such a person ever existed.

Choosing (or not choosing) a religion is just like choosing a political
party to vote for. You make a choice with which you are most comfortable.

Interesting. So your 'immortal soul' and 'eternal life' all hinge on
choosing what makes you the most comfortable?

something like that.

Amusing. Can I choose a liberal supply of drinks and temple virgins
constantly available?

Then it is obvious the religions of ancient Egypt are the most
accurate since some of the existed for four or five thousand years.
Not to mention some of the middle east religions that are about that
old.
If the length of time something is believed has anything to do with
it's validity the Earth must be flat and disease caused by demons.
As far as 'scripture' is concerned it is no different from any other
unsupported documentation. Why should it be?

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.

most religions have a fear of punishment concept. it's not out of place.

Of course they do. That is the way they keep converts and eliminate
the competition.

sure. why not? after all, they all have to survive in a fierce Darwinian
world of religion eats religion. LOL

History seems to indicate this. All religions call for the
elimination of rivals.

actually, it's mostly fundamental zealots in religions who do that. the
religion itself is more concerned with it's own story and articles of faith.

No, most religions are concerned first with their own survival and
increasing their membership.
.

User: "Mel"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 12:39:12 PM

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:38:07 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <ffqoi01uan4jvssdjtfasnlqpf7h6nrrba@4ax.com>:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 09:37:40 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 09:26:06 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 23:48:27 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:10:32 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:05:11 +0200, "Zoogar, ruler of the Zerg"

Attila wrote:

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:45:26 +1200, "ur_droll" <who.gives@*****.co> in

But then you must decide which god, with no evidence for any of them.

if there was no evidence, there would be no Believers.

If there was evidence no believers would be necessary.
One does not 'believe' in what has been proven.

LOL do you think that evidence = proof? LOL

Not precisely, but neither exists in the religion arena.

scripture is evidence.

Oh? Then "Gone With The Wind" proves there was a Tara and Scarlett
and Rett were actual people.
Not to mention how Tolken proves Hobbits and Middle Earth exist.

yer confusing evidence with proof again.
i don't know how long it is going to take you to understand these two
concepts. I hear dictionaries can prove helpful in these cases.

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

i'm unmoved by that argument.

It isn't an argument. It's an observation of fact you cannot dispute.

it is an argument, an implicit one. you are saying that because X is true, Y
follows. I don't buy your implication.
Please prove your Modus Ponens.
(in case you need to know what that is)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_ponens

just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote. Believers
consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

With no rational reason for any such belief, especially in the god
chosen.

there is definitely rational reason for such belief.

No, there is not. Religion and rationality are self-excluding.

so you assert, but no sale here.

Of course not.

so there is no point trying to convince each other of our points of view. We
are both simply not interested in moving off our entrenched positions.

If you *actually* believe this life is merely a short
prelude to the one to come and if you *actually* believe
that one form of magic will enable you to live it in bliss
and another, slightly different form will cast you into
eternal fire, then anyone pushing the wrong magic is the
worst imaginable kind of criminal, far worse than a mere
murderer.

is it? how quaint.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true.
all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.

I would not call closing your eyes and throwing dice a decision.

nor would I.

It's as much of a decision as deciding which religion is 'correct',
especially when nothing indicates any of them are.

Jesus is the only one who died to save the entire world. everyone has their
particular reasons.

Yet no one has ever proven such a person ever existed.

doesn't matter to me or all the other people who believe they are saved by
Jesus Christ.
We _believe_ in Jesus Christ. no proof is necessary for our belief.

Choosing (or not choosing) a religion is just like choosing a political
party to vote for. You make a choice with which you are most comfortable.

Interesting. So your 'immortal soul' and 'eternal life' all hinge on
choosing what makes you the most comfortable?

something like that.

Amusing. Can I choose a liberal supply of drinks and temple virgins
constantly available?

well if you feel that way, you are free to believe in them.

If the length of time something is believed has anything to do with
it's validity the Earth must be flat and disease caused by demons.

I'm not making any kind of argument here, nor am I offering reasons for why
I happen to believe in Jesus Christ.

As far as 'scripture' is concerned it is no different from any other
unsupported documentation. Why should it be?

That's nice. I don't care what you think about scripture.

then you are in deep *****. that's prolly your idea of Heaven.
my personal values are to rob and kill and steal. if not for my belief in
God (and my fear of Him), i would make Charles Manson look like a Sunday
School teacher.

So for you religion is basically fear.

most religions have a fear of punishment concept. it's not out of place.

Of course they do. That is the way they keep converts and eliminate
the competition.

sure. why not? after all, they all have to survive in a fierce Darwinian
world of religion eats religion. LOL

History seems to indicate this. All religions call for the
elimination of rivals.

actually, it's mostly fundamental zealots in religions who do that. the
religion itself is more concerned with it's own story and articles of faith.

No, most religions are concerned first with their own survival and
increasing their membership.

If you say so.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfaq.com
http://www.atjfaq.com/
.

User: "Attila"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	25 Aug 2004 03:23:34 PM

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:39:12 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in
alt.abortion with message-id
<mmipi0tgf17povinch1dqrvar2n3kias1u@4ax.com> wrote:

scripture is evidence.

Oh? Then "Gone With The Wind" proves there was a Tara and Scarlett
and Rett were actual people.
Not to mention how Tolken proves Hobbits and Middle Earth exist.

yer confusing evidence with proof again.

Shall we clarify?
Main Entry: 1proof
Pronunciation: 'pr�f
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, alteration of preove, from Old French
preuve, from Late Latin proba, from Latin probare to prove -- more at
PROVE
1 a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a
truth or a fact b : the process or an instance of establishing the
validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements
in accordance with principles of reasoning
2 obsolete : EXPERIENCE
3 : something that induces certainty or establishes validity
4 archaic : the quality or state of having been tested or tried;
especially : unyielding hardness
5 : evidence operating to determine the finding or judgment of a
tribunal
6 a plural proofs or proof : a copy (as of typeset text) made for
examination or correction b : a test impression of an engraving,
etching, or lithograph c : a coin that is struck from a
highly-polished die on a polished planchet, is not intended for
circulation, and sometimes differs in metallic content from coins of
identical design struck for circulation d : a test photographic print
made from a negative
7 : a test applied to articles or substances to determine whether they
are of standard or satisfactory quality
8 a : the minimum alcoholic strength of proof spirit b : strength with
reference to the standard for proof spirit; specifically : alcoholic
strength indicated by a number that is twice the percent by volume of
alcohol present <whiskey of 90 proof is 45% alcohol>
7 entries found for evidence.
To select an entry, click on it.
evidence[1,noun]evidence[2,transitive verb]circumstantial
evidencehearsay evidenceindirect evidenceself-evidencestate's evidence
Main Entry: 1ev�i�dence
Pronunciation: 'e-v&-d&n(t)s, -v&-"den(t)s
Function: noun
1 a : an outward sign : INDICATION b : something that furnishes proof
: TESTIMONY; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal
to ascertain the truth of a matter
2 : one who bears witness; especially : one who voluntarily confesses
a crime and testifies for the prosecution against his accomplices
- in evidence 1 : to be seen : CONSPICUOUS <trim lawns ... are everywhere in evidence -- Amer. Guide Series: N.C.> 2 : as evidence
From http://www.m-w.com/netdict.htm
Note proof 1a. The definitions are not the same but are somewhat
related. I admit I sometimes say 'evidence' when I in fact mean
'Proof".
Neither, however, exists in religion.
Plus of course your response does not address my comment. Probably
because it can't.

i don't know how long it is going to take you to understand these two
concepts. I hear dictionaries can prove helpful in these cases.

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

i'm unmoved by that argument.

It isn't an argument. It's an observation of fact you cannot dispute.

it is an argument, an implicit one. you are saying that because X is true, Y
follows. I don't buy your implication.

I am saying that no matter what your religion is less than half the
world pays any attention to it.
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
Or is that too complicated for you?
I could not care less what you 'buy'.

Please prove your Modus Ponens.

(in case you need to know what that is)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_ponens

Unnecessary since I am presenting a fact. Not an opinion or an
argument.

just as some people
consider a particular political party as being a waste of a vote. Believers
consider it (scripture) to be true and evidence of God.

With no rational reason for any such belief, especially in the god
chosen.

there is definitely rational reason for such belief.

No, there is not. Religion and rationality are self-excluding.

so you assert, but no sale here.

Of course not.

so there is no point trying to convince each other of our points of view. We
are both simply not interested in moving off our entrenched positions.

I would be happy to change my position as soon as I see proof your
position is valid. Not some logical deduction or collections of
opinions. Proof of the same order needed to prove any scientific
fact.
Proof not open to any other interpretation or explanation and includes
all known information.

is it? how quaint.

How accurate.

well it's not possible to know if scripture is a lie. it could be true.
all of it.

Then the problem is 'which scripture'? Especially since most of the
exclude all other scriptures and religions.

yes. so people make a decision.

I would not call closing your eyes and throwing dice a decision.

nor would I.

It's as much of a decision as deciding which religion is 'correct',
especially when nothing indicates any of them are.

Jesus is the only one who died to save the entire world. everyone has their
particular reasons.

Yet no one has ever proven such a person ever existed.

doesn't matter to me or all the other people who believe they are saved by
Jesus Christ.

How about the people who are absolutely certain they have been saved
by some other god such as Allah? Are they wrong? Can you prove it,
or is it just an unsupported opinion?

We _believe_ in Jesus Christ. no proof is necessary for our belief.

To some people the very idea of proof for some subjects is
literally beyond their comprehension. To them their
religion requires no proof and they cannot understand why
anyone else requires such proof.

well if you feel that way, you are free to believe in them.

What? Do I detect a cut and run? Can't you support you statement
about the length of existence of a religion somehow validating it?
And how about the nature gods that various cultures worshiped for tens
of thousands of years before recorded history?

If the length of time something is believed has anything to do with
it's validity the Earth must be flat and disease caused by demons.

I'm not making any kind of argument here, nor am I offering reasons for why
I happen to believe in Jesus Christ.

Because you can't. Your position cannot be defended other that to
state it is your unsupported opinion.

As far as 'scripture' is concerned it is no different from any other
unsupported documentation. Why should it be?

That's nice. I don't care what you think about scripture.

See above. I suspect you will soon disappear. That frequently
happens when people do not like my questions or what I point out.

sure. why not? after all, they all have to survive in a fierce Darwinian
world of religion eats religion. LOL

History seems to indicate this. All religions call for the
elimination of rivals.

actually, it's mostly fundamental zealots in religions who do that. the
religion itself is more concerned with it's own story and articles of faith.

No, most religions are concerned first with their own survival and
increasing their membership.

If you say so.

I just did. Can you refute it?
If you are a christian what are the first two of your commandments?
And the next two?
.

User: "Mel"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	26 Aug 2004 06:49:40 AM

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:23:34 -0400, Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
message <aurpi0dq7qu7bo438980rk839ks2v8bl7g@4ax.com>:

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:39:12 +0200, "Mel" <mel@atj.faq.com> in

scripture is evidence.

Oh? Then "Gone With The Wind" proves there was a Tara and Scarlett
and Rett were actual people.
Not to mention how Tolken proves Hobbits and Middle Earth exist.

yer confusing evidence with proof again.

Shall we clarify?

i already know the difference.

I admit I sometimes say 'evidence' when I in fact mean 'Proof".

yup.

Neither, however, exists in religion.

scripture is evidence. just like a bloody glove could be. evidence means
different things to different people.
i'm not particularly interested in hearing how much you reject all the
evidence that is proffered for the existence of God or gods.
but here's an example for you. there are many myths and fables out there.
one such fable was about the "mythical" city of Troy. turned out that Troy
did in fact exist. so what i've demonstrated here is that myths and fables
(which would include ancient writings and scripture) cannot be dismissed en
bloc as being without merit. they are evidence. some of it might be true.

Plus of course your response does not address my comment. Probably
because it can't.

sure it did. but don't worry about it.

you might consider scripture as being valueless,

I do.

...wow...

Oh? Are you aware less than half of the world pays any attention to
your superstition? Whatever it is?

i'm unmoved by that argument.

It isn't an argument. It's an observation of fact you cannot dispute.

it is an argument, an implicit one. you are saying that because X is true, Y
follows. I don't buy your implication.

I am saying that no matter what your religion is less than half the
world pays any attention to it.

i'm not too interested in that little fact. it is irrelevant to what i
choose to believe.

so there is no point trying to convince each other of our points of view. We
are both simply not interested in moving off our entrenched positions.

I would be happy to change my position as soon as I see proof your
position is valid.

well you're not going to be getting any proof, certainly not from me.
i will say it again: i don't care what you choose to believe or not believe.

Not some logical deduction or collections of
opinions. Proof of the same order needed to prove any scientific
fact. Proof not open to any other interpretation or explanation
and includes all known information.

if you want proof, you will have to provide it for yourself.

is it? how quaint.

How accurate.

i'm not too worried about it actually. maybe others are.

Yet no one has ever proven such a person ever existed.

doesn't matter to me or all the other people who believe they are saved by
Jesus Christ.

How about the people who are absolutely certain they have been saved
by some other god such as Allah?

not my problem. it's their problem. they alone are responsible for what they
choose to believe.

Are they wrong?

in my opinion, yes.

Can you prove it,

nope.

or is it just an unsupported opinion?

it's supported by evidence that you do not accept.

We _believe_ in Jesus Christ. no proof is necessary for our belief.

well you can either insist on having proof, and never receive it, or you can
decide to believe in God.

well if you feel that way, you are free to believe in them.

What? Do I detect a cut and run? Can't you support you statement
about the length of existence of a religion somehow validating it?

it's not the only criteria. and these are my own personal criteria that i
haven't even fully mapped out. your criteria are no doubt very different.

And how about the nature gods that various cultures worshiped for tens
of thousands of years before recorded history?

how about them?

If the length of time something is believed has anything to do with
it's validity the Earth must be flat and disease caused by demons.

I'm not making any kind of argument here, nor am I offering reasons for why
I happen to believe in Jesus Christ.

Because you can't.

because i don't have to. i don't have to supply you with any reasons
whatsoever for what i choose to believe in. and i'm opting not to.

Your position cannot be defended other that to
state it is your unsupported opinion.

my position does not need to be defended since i am free to believe whatever
i want to believe, as are you.

As far as 'scripture' is concerned it is no different from any other
unsupported documentation. Why should it be?

That's nice. I don't care what you think about scripture.

See above. I suspect you will soon disappear. That frequently
happens when people do not like my questions or what I point out.

unlike you, i am not interested in debating whether or not God does in fact
exist. I'm quite content to believe that He does.
I am completely unable to provide you with any proof and unwilling to even
offer persuasive argument. I have no interest in persuading you about
anything.

sure. why not? after all, they all have to survive in a fierce Darwinian
world of religion eats religion. LOL

History seems to indicate this. All religions call for the
elimination of rivals.

actually, it's mostly fundamental zealots in religions who do that. the
religion itself is more concerned with it's own story and articles of faith.

No, most religions are concerned first with their own survival and
increasing their membership.

If you say so.

I just did. Can you refute it?

why would i want to do that? you can believe whatever you want to believe.

If you are a christian what are the first two of your commandments?
And the next two?

i hate pop quizzes.
--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
Mel the Defiler
member, ATJ regs
webmaster of atjfaq.com
http://www.atjfaq.com/
.

User: "socode"
Title: Re: absolute rot..... as written by mel	26 Aug 2004 07:05:37 AM

Mel wrote:

but here's an example for you. there are many myths and fables out there.
one such fable was about the "mythical" city of Troy. turned out that Troy
did in fact exist. so what i've demonstrated here is that myths and fables
(which would include ancient writings and scripture) cannot be dismissed en
bloc as being without merit. they are evidence. some of it might be true.

King Kong climbed the Empire State building. Are monkeys flying out of
your butt?