Absurdities of "intelligent" design



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Meteorite Debris"
Date: 16 Feb 2004 04:38:04 PM
Object: Absurdities of "intelligent" design
Fundys are keen to cite examples in nature as splendid pieces of
engineering. The aeronautical properties of bird wings, the cardiac
system, the respiratory system, the balance between photosynthesis and
respiration processes without which life suffocates, as the work of an
intelligent designer.
There are many examples of poor "design" or design, which if
replicated by a human designer would see him looking for other work.
The eye with a built in blind spot, a spine jerry rigged from a 4
legged version, a dangerous birthing procedure, an appendix that only
causes illness and many more.
But can you imagine the process of design succession by an
"intelligent" designer of any human made products and product
improvement. Those parts of earlier design with residual features.
Humans just don't design in the "intelligent" way that fundys are
asking us to believe. Imagine a modern telephone that came with a
wheel onto which a rotary dial could be fixed. This is the sort of
thing seen in nature. Vestigial eyes for blind animals who live
permanently in dark caves. Why design a place where eyes could go for
an animal when the "intelligent" designer know that place a place
never be needed. The fundy would have us believe that the cave dweller
was designed as a finished product unrelated to, or adapted from,
anything else. When an improved product does not need a component used
in the earlier version it is simply left out. Designers do not
incorporate redundant components in reduced form.
It becomes more absurd when you consider how a product is assembled.
If you compare it with the pregnancy process. Imagine a radio which at
the start of a production line has inserted into it a place into which
vacuum tubes can be fixed and these are then taken out half through
the production line. What human would design such an irrational
assembly process? Or a calculator built first with cogs and wheels
which are withdrawn halfway through the assembly process before the
silicon chip is added. But this sort of assembly is what is seen in
nature.
IDers take what amount to good analogies with design to advance their
case and ignore problematical counter examples. But the ID analogy is
just that - an analogy. A weak one that breaks down when looked at too
closely. But IDers have rarified the analogy and confused pattern
recognition tendency of the mind with reality.
--
To reply remove *THE_ANTI-SPAM_SHIELD*
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Shhh. Be very quiet, I'm hunting automorons. Heh heh.
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
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DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: Absurdities of "intelligent" design 17 Feb 2004 12:43:06 AM
In article <MPG.1a9bea4d7b282f74989d1b@news.optusnet.com.au>,
Meteorite Debris <epicurus1@*THE_ANTI-SPAM_SHIELD*optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

Fundys are keen to cite examples in nature as splendid pieces of
engineering. The aeronautical properties of bird wings, the cardiac
system, the respiratory system, the balance between photosynthesis and
respiration processes without which life suffocates, as the work of an
intelligent designer.

There are many examples of poor "design" or design, which if
replicated by a human designer would see him looking for other work.
The eye with a built in blind spot, a spine jerry rigged from a 4
legged version, a dangerous birthing procedure, an appendix that only
causes illness and many more.

But can you imagine the process of design succession by an
"intelligent" designer of any human made products and product
improvement. Those parts of earlier design with residual features.
Humans just don't design in the "intelligent" way that fundys are
asking us to believe. Imagine a modern telephone that came with a
wheel onto which a rotary dial could be fixed. This is the sort of
thing seen in nature. Vestigial eyes for blind animals who live
permanently in dark caves. Why design a place where eyes could go for
an animal when the "intelligent" designer know that place a place
never be needed. The fundy would have us believe that the cave dweller
was designed as a finished product unrelated to, or adapted from,
anything else. When an improved product does not need a component used
in the earlier version it is simply left out. Designers do not
incorporate redundant components in reduced form.

It becomes more absurd when you consider how a product is assembled.
If you compare it with the pregnancy process. Imagine a radio which at
the start of a production line has inserted into it a place into which
vacuum tubes can be fixed and these are then taken out half through
the production line. What human would design such an irrational
assembly process? Or a calculator built first with cogs and wheels
which are withdrawn halfway through the assembly process before the
silicon chip is added. But this sort of assembly is what is seen in
nature.

IDers take what amount to good analogies with design to advance their
case and ignore problematical counter examples. But the ID analogy is
just that - an analogy. A weak one that breaks down when looked at too
closely. But IDers have rarified the analogy and confused pattern
recognition tendency of the mind with reality.

The whole ID argument boils down to this. If science can't explain
something in a few simple words to the satisfaction of the ID person, it
must be due to a supernatural being. It is an argument born out of
extreme ignorance. It is also just thinly disguised creationism.
As if there weren't enough examples of unintelligent design, I would add
autoimmune deseases, where a person's immune system goes haywire and
attacks his/her own body. Lupus is an example. Who would design a
machine that had the capacity to destroy itself for no good reason?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, bit in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.
User: "W.Syme"

Title: Re: Absurdities of "intelligent" design 17 Feb 2004 12:33:06 AM
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:43:06 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>
wrote:

It is also just thinly disguised creationism.

Of course. "Intelligent design" is a eufemism for "goddidit". You
won't hear any intelligent design nuts going on about Allah or Zeus or
(insert non-xtian god here) being the intelligent designer, right?
--
==I am an atheist==
.
User: "Woden"

Title: Re: Absurdities of "intelligent" design 17 Feb 2004 09:09:52 AM
W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in
news:73a89db1544533c0d5071aba3b113d60@news.teranews.com:

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:43:06 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>
wrote:

It is also just thinly disguised creationism.


Of course. "Intelligent design" is a eufemism for "goddidit". You
won't hear any intelligent design nuts going on about Allah or Zeus or
(insert non-xtian god here) being the intelligent designer, right?


I think that there are a few nutjobs out there saying that
extraterrestrial aliens were the "designer". Of course, they are too
stupid to realize that this doesn't answer the question of where did
those "designers" come from.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political institution for the control of
people's thoughts, lives, and actions; based on
ancient myths and superstitions perpetrated through
generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Absurdities of "intelligent" design 17 Feb 2004 11:52:03 PM
In article <Xns9492680E94FDAwodencharternet@216.168.3.44>,
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote:

W.Syme <W.Syme.killspam@hotpop.com> wrote in
news:73a89db1544533c0d5071aba3b113d60@news.teranews.com:

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:43:06 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpresremove.com>
wrote:

It is also just thinly disguised creationism.


Of course. "Intelligent design" is a eufemism for "goddidit". You
won't hear any intelligent design nuts going on about Allah or Zeus or
(insert non-xtian god here) being the intelligent designer, right?



I think that there are a few nutjobs out there saying that
extraterrestrial aliens were the "designer". Of course, they are too
stupid to realize that this doesn't answer the question of where did
those "designers" come from.

And who or what designed them.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Men become civilized not in their willingness to believe, bit in
proportion to their readiness to doubt." - H. L. Mencken
.



User: "towelie"

Title: Re: Absurdities of "intelligent" design 17 Feb 2004 12:53:59 AM
TV's johac wrote:

The whole ID argument boils down to this. If science can't explain
something in a few simple words to the satisfaction of the ID person,
it must be due to a supernatural being. It is an argument born out of
extreme ignorance. It is also just thinly disguised creationism.

And, in most cases, the ID person's intellect is so underdeveloped, that
explaining even a simple concept is nearly impossible.

As if there weren't enough examples of unintelligent design, I would
add autoimmune deseases, where a person's immune system goes haywire
and attacks his/her own body. Lupus is an example. Who would design a
machine that had the capacity to destroy itself for no good reason?

--
Don't waste your touch, you won't feel anything
Or were you sent to save me?
I've thought too much
You won't find anything worthy of redeeming
AFI - The Leaving Song Pt. II
aa #2133
apatriot #19
.


User: "Marc Satterwhite"

Title: Re: Absurdities of "intelligent" design 18 Feb 2004 08:56:15 AM
Meteorite Debris wrote:

Fundys are keen to cite examples in nature as splendid pieces of
engineering. The aeronautical properties of bird wings, the cardiac
system, the respiratory system, the balance between photosynthesis and
respiration processes without which life suffocates, as the work of an
intelligent designer.

There are many examples of poor "design" or design, which if
replicated by a human designer would see him looking for other work.
The eye with a built in blind spot, a spine jerry rigged from a 4
legged version, a dangerous birthing procedure, an appendix that only
causes illness and many more.

But can you imagine the process of design succession by an
"intelligent" designer of any human made products and product
improvement. Those parts of earlier design with residual features.
Humans just don't design in the "intelligent" way that fundys are
asking us to believe. Imagine a modern telephone that came with a
wheel onto which a rotary dial could be fixed. This is the sort of
thing seen in nature. Vestigial eyes for blind animals who live
permanently in dark caves. Why design a place where eyes could go for
an animal when the "intelligent" designer know that place a place
never be needed. The fundy would have us believe that the cave dweller
was designed as a finished product unrelated to, or adapted from,
anything else. When an improved product does not need a component used
in the earlier version it is simply left out. Designers do not
incorporate redundant components in reduced form.

It becomes more absurd when you consider how a product is assembled.
If you compare it with the pregnancy process. Imagine a radio which at
the start of a production line has inserted into it a place into which
vacuum tubes can be fixed and these are then taken out half through
the production line. What human would design such an irrational
assembly process? Or a calculator built first with cogs and wheels
which are withdrawn halfway through the assembly process before the
silicon chip is added. But this sort of assembly is what is seen in
nature.

IDers take what amount to good analogies with design to advance their
case and ignore problematical counter examples. But the ID analogy is
just that - an analogy. A weak one that breaks down when looked at too
closely. But IDers have rarified the analogy and confused pattern
recognition tendency of the mind with reality.

-

For a really interesting and subversive take on ID, see:
http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/designer_organisms.htm
A quote:
Complex Things That Could Only Have Been Designed
"By irreducibly grotesque I mean a single system made
for the purpose of death and maiming composed of several
well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic
function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes
the system to effectively cease functioning."
- Bakel Mehe, Getleighd University Biochemist
He cites several of the more bizarre and cruel biological
adaptations.
Best, Marc
.
User: "Meteorite Debris"

Title: Re: Absurdities of "intelligent" design 18 Feb 2004 05:19:30 PM
On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:56:15 -0500 the ET form known as Marc
Satterwhite<mtsatt01@athena.louisville.edu> sent a radio signal across
the vast expanse of deep space -._.--._.--._.--._.--._.--._.

Meteorite Debris wrote:

Fundys are keen to cite examples in nature as splendid pieces of
engineering. The aeronautical properties of bird wings, the cardiac
system, the respiratory system, the balance between photosynthesis and
respiration processes without which life suffocates, as the work of an
intelligent designer.

There are many examples of poor "design" or design, which if
replicated by a human designer would see him looking for other work.
The eye with a built in blind spot, a spine jerry rigged from a 4
legged version, a dangerous birthing procedure, an appendix that only
causes illness and many more.



But can you imagine the process of design succession by an
"intelligent" designer of any human made products and product
improvement. Those parts of earlier design with residual features.
Humans just don't design in the "intelligent" way that fundys are
asking us to believe. Imagine a modern telephone that came with a
wheel onto which a rotary dial could be fixed. This is the sort of
thing seen in nature. Vestigial eyes for blind animals who live
permanently in dark caves. Why design a place where eyes could go for
an animal when the "intelligent" designer know that place a place
never be needed. The fundy would have us believe that the cave dweller
was designed as a finished product unrelated to, or adapted from,
anything else. When an improved product does not need a component used
in the earlier version it is simply left out. Designers do not
incorporate redundant components in reduced form.

It becomes more absurd when you consider how a product is assembled.
If you compare it with the pregnancy process. Imagine a radio which at
the start of a production line has inserted into it a place into which
vacuum tubes can be fixed and these are then taken out half through
the production line. What human would design such an irrational
assembly process? Or a calculator built first with cogs and wheels
which are withdrawn halfway through the assembly process before the
silicon chip is added. But this sort of assembly is what is seen in
nature.

IDers take what amount to good analogies with design to advance their
case and ignore problematical counter examples. But the ID analogy is
just that - an analogy. A weak one that breaks down when looked at too
closely. But IDers have rarified the analogy and confused pattern
recognition tendency of the mind with reality.

-


For a really interesting and subversive take on ID, see:

http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/designer_organisms.htm

A quote:

Complex Things That Could Only Have Been Designed

"By irreducibly grotesque I mean a single system made
for the purpose of death and maiming composed of several
well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic
function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes
the system to effectively cease functioning."
- Bakel Mehe, Getleighd University Biochemist

He cites several of the more bizarre and cruel biological
adaptations.

Best, Marc

Thanx for the link. Interesting. The homosexual raping xylocaris
maculipennis must have the weirdest way of propagating sperm I have
ever heard of.
--
To reply remove *THE_ANTI-SPAM_SHIELD*
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet -
Evil Atheist Conspiracy
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
Shhh. Be very quiet, I'm hunting automorons. Heh heh.
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever
conceived." - Isaac Asimov
Fingerprint for PGP Keys at key server or go to
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pk1956/
RSA - 71 BA 7C 45 B5 4A 5F EA 72 DB EC 7F 7F A8 70 99
DSS - 9217 21A9 9C3F EB0B E302 AD0E 69C5 0F06 402E 0943
.


User: "W.Syme"

Title: Re: Absurdities of "intelligent" design 16 Feb 2004 05:37:28 PM
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:08:04 +1030, Meteorite Debris
<epicurus1@*THE_ANTI-SPAM_SHIELD*optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Fundys are keen to cite examples in nature as splendid pieces of
engineering. The aeronautical properties of bird wings, the cardiac
system, the respiratory system, the balance between photosynthesis and
respiration processes without which life suffocates, as the work of an

<enter devil's advocate mode>
Weelllll....
Look at computers. Windows XP is very well comparable to humans. There
are file extensions, for instance. They are a relict from the era of
DOS, and the same could be done much better with file headers. Same
goes for floppy disks (which to my amazment are still in most pc's),
NNTP (ha!) and (remembering the days when I actually tried to learn
assembler) the internal structure of a cpu. And probably a million
other examples, just ask your nearest Linux nut.
All these things, relating to "backwards compatability" are very
similar to rudimentary organs.
<leaving devil's advocate mode>
Ahem. Fundies suck!
.


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