| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"oneblackline" |
| Date: |
03 Mar 2006 05:19:27 AM |
| Object: |
Acorns were good until bread was found |
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
.
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 07:24:00 AM |
|
|
"oneblackline" <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:qcOjy7H9xYCEFweh@xx.x...
Why is it important?
It makes all the difference.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "oneblackline" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 06:47:16 AM |
|
|
In message <ndnh02hqc3k32dekl4omoiifjrk8qp1ne6@4ax.com>, Sir Frederick
<mmcneill@fuzzysys.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
I agree with your comment and wish to carry it further.
IMO all qualia are forms of religious experience.
IMO there are two categories of qualia : 1. external sensor driven
hallucinations
(including such as sight, sounds, odors, tastes and touches;
2. internal sensor and state driven hallucinations
(such as pain, muscle tension, joint angle, awareness, self, relaxation, etc.)
These qualia as religious experience perform sacred tasks
such as personification, sense of meaning, consciousness, etc.)
Succinctly put, and a clear outline for my mind.
Maybe science must be too precise for man to find spiritual value in
these things, or in another way, to transcend one's arbitrary human
components by the limits set by the primary sensory experience.
Does the sum of these parts guarantee that each one can find the
religious experience, while acting in a particular way - as a whole
thing, something which science can or cannot do?
Socialization of these common religious experiences may promote
a formal religion, though may not.
The common human condition will remain primitive until we come
to a cultural understanding of our common brain functions and stop
the medieval deceit we now practice.
Would you not agree that we have every avenue available to us, but it is
not likely to change...
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "AZ Nomad" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 01:18:01 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
Not any more, unless pat ***** answers are what you're looking for.
The problem is that when you're operating in the realm of the irrational,
as religion operates, there is no behavior so bizzare, so nasty, so assinine
that it can't be rationalized.
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There
is no baby. There's just a steaming pile of horse ***** with no
positive attributes whatsoever.
.
|
|
|
| User: "oneblackline" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 02:01:19 PM |
|
|
In message <slrne0h5kt.pn6.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ
Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
Not any more, unless pat ***** answers are what you're looking for.
The problem is that when you're operating in the realm of the irrational,
as religion operates, there is no behavior so bizzare, so nasty, so assinine
that it can't be rationalized.
I said "non-rational" and "religious experience", not "irrational" and
"religion". Like how the word "secular" replaces "faithless".
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There
is no baby. There's just a steaming pile of horse ***** with no
positive attributes whatsoever.
I challenge you to think otherwise for the sake of reason.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 02:18:23 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:01:19 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <slrne0h5kt.pn6.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ
Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
Not any more, unless pat ***** answers are what you're looking for.
The problem is that when you're operating in the realm of the irrational,
as religion operates, there is no behavior so bizzare, so nasty, so assinine
that it can't be rationalized.
I said "non-rational" and "religious experience", not "irrational" and
"religion". Like how the word "secular" replaces "faithless".
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There
is no baby. There's just a steaming pile of horse ***** with no
positive attributes whatsoever.
I challenge you to think otherwise for the sake of reason.
I challenge you to think Santa Claus really has a magic toy factory
and flying reindeer for the sake of reason.
.
|
|
|
| User: "oneblackline" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 02:22:10 PM |
|
|
In message <829h02tlap6jeq1l9cat5e2g6ru66j7g7j@4ax.com>, Christopher A.
Lee <calee@optonline.net> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:01:19 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <slrne0h5kt.pn6.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ
Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
Not any more, unless pat ***** answers are what you're looking for.
The problem is that when you're operating in the realm of the irrational,
as religion operates, there is no behavior so bizzare, so nasty, so assinine
that it can't be rationalized.
I said "non-rational" and "religious experience", not "irrational" and
"religion". Like how the word "secular" replaces "faithless".
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There
is no baby. There's just a steaming pile of horse ***** with no
positive attributes whatsoever.
I challenge you to think otherwise for the sake of reason.
I challenge you to think Santa Claus really has a magic toy factory
and flying reindeer for the sake of reason.
You've missed the point as well.. haven't you.
.
|
|
|
| User: "AZ Nomad" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 02:30:51 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:22:10 +0000, oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <829h02tlap6jeq1l9cat5e2g6ru66j7g7j@4ax.com>, Christopher A.
Lee <calee@optonline.net> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:01:19 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <slrne0h5kt.pn6.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ
Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
Not any more, unless pat ***** answers are what you're looking for.
The problem is that when you're operating in the realm of the irrational,
as religion operates, there is no behavior so bizzare, so nasty, so assinine
that it can't be rationalized.
I said "non-rational" and "religious experience", not "irrational" and
"religion". Like how the word "secular" replaces "faithless".
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There
is no baby. There's just a steaming pile of horse ***** with no
positive attributes whatsoever.
I challenge you to think otherwise for the sake of reason.
I challenge you to think Santa Claus really has a magic toy factory
and flying reindeer for the sake of reason.
You've missed the point as well.. haven't you.
Actually it is you who has entirely missed the point.
You can't think irrationally for the sake of reason; your request is
insane.
.
|
|
|
| User: "oneblackline" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 02:40:28 PM |
|
|
In message <slrne0h9th.tk2.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ
Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:22:10 +0000, oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <829h02tlap6jeq1l9cat5e2g6ru66j7g7j@4ax.com>, Christopher A.
Lee <calee@optonline.net> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:01:19 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <slrne0h5kt.pn6.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ
Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
Not any more, unless pat ***** answers are what you're looking for.
The problem is that when you're operating in the realm of the irrational,
as religion operates, there is no behavior so bizzare, so nasty, so
assinine
that it can't be rationalized.
I said "non-rational" and "religious experience", not "irrational" and
"religion". Like how the word "secular" replaces "faithless".
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There
is no baby. There's just a steaming pile of horse ***** with no
positive attributes whatsoever.
I challenge you to think otherwise for the sake of reason.
I challenge you to think Santa Claus really has a magic toy factory
and flying reindeer for the sake of reason.
You've missed the point as well.. haven't you.
Actually it is you who has entirely missed the point.
You can't think irrationally for the sake of reason; your request is
insane.
"...no positive attributes whatsoever" seems like a wild generalization
on the verge of the irrational, rather than the non-rational which I'm
attempting to get at.
I'm not sure an example will prove the non-rational, except to disprove
the irrational, which I'm not arguing for.
Give an example if you wish, but I'm more or less finished on this
thread.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 02:54:12 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:30:51 GMT, AZ Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:22:10 +0000, oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <829h02tlap6jeq1l9cat5e2g6ru66j7g7j@4ax.com>, Christopher A.
Lee <calee@optonline.net> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:01:19 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <slrne0h5kt.pn6.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ
Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
Not any more, unless pat ***** answers are what you're looking for.
The problem is that when you're operating in the realm of the irrational,
as religion operates, there is no behavior so bizzare, so nasty, so assinine
that it can't be rationalized.
I said "non-rational" and "religious experience", not "irrational" and
"religion". Like how the word "secular" replaces "faithless".
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There
is no baby. There's just a steaming pile of horse ***** with no
positive attributes whatsoever.
I challenge you to think otherwise for the sake of reason.
I challenge you to think Santa Claus really has a magic toy factory
and flying reindeer for the sake of reason.
You've missed the point as well.. haven't you.
Actually it is you who has entirely missed the point.
You can't think irrationally for the sake of reason; your request is
insane.
No more so than yours.
Think about it.
There's no difference to the person you're demanding do that.
And you know it.
What does that make you?
.
|
|
|
| User: "oneblackline" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 02:58:45 PM |
|
|
In message <15bh029v26a1ivf7555pp4lj4od0938sv2@4ax.com>, Christopher A.
Lee <calee@optonline.net> writes
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:30:51 GMT, AZ Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:22:10 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <829h02tlap6jeq1l9cat5e2g6ru66j7g7j@4ax.com>, Christopher A.
Lee <calee@optonline.net> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 20:01:19 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
In message <slrne0h5kt.pn6.aznomad@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ
Nomad <aznomad@PmunOgeBOX.com> writes
On Fri, 3 Mar 2006 11:19:27 +0000, oneblackline
<oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
Not any more, unless pat ***** answers are what you're looking for.
The problem is that when you're operating in the realm of the irrational,
as religion operates, there is no behavior so bizzare, so nasty,
assinine
that it can't be rationalized.
I said "non-rational" and "religious experience", not "irrational" and
"religion". Like how the word "secular" replaces "faithless".
This isn't a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There
is no baby. There's just a steaming pile of horse ***** with no
positive attributes whatsoever.
I challenge you to think otherwise for the sake of reason.
I challenge you to think Santa Claus really has a magic toy factory
and flying reindeer for the sake of reason.
You've missed the point as well.. haven't you.
Actually it is you who has entirely missed the point.
You can't think irrationally for the sake of reason; your request is
insane.
No more so than yours.
Think about it.
There's no difference to the person you're demanding do that.
And you know it.
What does that make you?
That makes me think that I've dealt with this before, in my previous
post -- look for it.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ichimusai" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 06:11:31 AM |
|
|
oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> writes:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock
at mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is
the religious community which has the greater foundations for
answering the most important questions posed by the human condition.
Who defines what these questions are?
--
Ichimusai http://ichimusai.org/ AA #769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo: Ichimusai
MSN: Ichimusai1972 AOL: Ichimusai1972 IRC: Ichimusai@IRCNet
To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows
box, you just need to work on it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "oneblackline" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 11:01:46 AM |
|
|
In message <m37j7blocs.fsf@ichimusai.dyndns.org>, Ichimusai
<ichi@ichimusai.org> writes
oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> writes:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock
at mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is
the religious community which has the greater foundations for
answering the most important questions posed by the human condition.
Who defines what these questions are?
Why are you asking me?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 05:03:40 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 03 Mar 2006 13:11:31 +0100, Ichimusai <ichi@ichimusai.org> wrote:
oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> writes:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock
at mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is
the religious community which has the greater foundations for
answering the most important questions posed by the human condition.
Who defines what these questions are?
And who decides, is the answer is valid?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 06:55:55 PM |
|
|
oneblackline <oneblackline@gmail.com> wrote in news:2mOE8vE$YCCEFwen@xx.x:
The non-rational Religious experience arrived as the key to the lock at
mankind's door before scientific investigation, therefore it is the
religious community which has the greater foundations for answering the
most important questions posed by the human condition.
So, religious experience (what ever that means) was the key to the lock.
Too bad it doesn't fit any worthwhile doors. At least we find useful
results behind the doors that science unlocks.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 08:25:28 PM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977BCAE5DEA3Cwodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
So, religious experience (what ever that means) was the key to the lock.
Too bad it doesn't fit any worthwhile doors. At least we find useful
results behind the doors that science unlocks.
I'd agree that science is a useful art, especially vis-a-vis religion.
I'm not sure, however, that it answers "the most important questions posed
by the human condition." On the other hand, I'm not sure there are a fixed
set of questions that the human condition poses!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
03 Mar 2006 10:37:17 PM |
|
|
"gibbs" <gib459@fakedemailaddress.edu> wrote in
news:8OKdnXWppfgGZ5XZ4p2dnA@comcast.com:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977BCAE5DEA3Cwodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
So, religious experience (what ever that means) was the key to the
lock. Too bad it doesn't fit any worthwhile doors. At least we find
useful results behind the doors that science unlocks.
I'd agree that science is a useful art, especially vis-a-vis religion.
I'm not sure, however, that it answers "the most important questions
posed by the human condition." On the other hand, I'm not sure there
are a fixed set of questions that the human condition poses!
But has religion ever answered any of these "most important questions"?
(Although I suspect that what makes these "most important" is purely
subjective anyway.)
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 07:23:03 AM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977BF091F3D58wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
But has religion ever answered any of these "most important questions"?
(Although I suspect that what makes these "most important" is purely
subjective anyway.)
For people who take religion seriously, and those that take science as a
religion, it is answering those questions right now. In particular: what
should I do? who am I? why are we here? where did we come from? what is
to be done by all of us? and so on.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 09:02:41 AM |
|
|
"gibbs" <gib459@fakedemailaddress.edu> wrote in
news:cs6dnZTlDOlfCZTZRVn-gQ@comcast.com:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977BF091F3D58wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
But has religion ever answered any of these "most important
questions"? (Although I suspect that what makes these "most
important" is purely subjective anyway.)
For people who take religion seriously, and those that take science as
a religion, it is answering those questions right now. In particular:
what should I do? who am I? why are we here? where did we come
from? what is to be done by all of us? and so on.
Maybe I should rephase my question. When has religion ever provided any
real answers to these questions? Other than subjective "feel good"
*****?
Just because you can ask these questions, what makes you think that they
are valid and that there are real answers (other than the aforementioned
subjective *****) to them?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 09:23:26 AM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977C667B72EF8wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
Maybe I should rephase my question. When has religion ever provided any
real answers to these questions? Other than subjective "feel good"
*****?
Just because you can ask these questions, what makes you think that they
are valid and that there are real answers (other than the aforementioned
subjective *****) to them?
On the other hand, why can't they be "valid" or real questions? Who can
say? Lots of people take them seriously, ***** or not. And lots of
people have done some serious things after thinking about these questions.
People have done both beautiful and vile things in the name of religion.
In any case, what's wrong with feeling good if it gets you by and you don't
hurt anyone?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 09:53:54 AM |
|
|
"gibbs" <gib459@fakedemailaddress.edu> wrote in
news:JpudndmtfdplLZTZ4p2dnA@comcast.com:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977C667B72EF8wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
Maybe I should rephase my question. When has religion ever provided
any real answers to these questions? Other than subjective "feel
good" *****?
Just because you can ask these questions, what makes you think that
they are valid and that there are real answers (other than the
aforementioned subjective *****) to them?
On the other hand, why can't they be "valid" or real questions? Who
can say? Lots of people take them seriously, ***** or not. And
lots of people have done some serious things after thinking about
these questions. People have done both beautiful and vile things in
the name of religion.
In any case, what's wrong with feeling good if it gets you by and you
don't hurt anyone?
Yeah, what's wrong with any self delusion? Unfortunately, religion has
been a greater force of evil, hatred, wars,... than it has been for
getting people to "get by" and not hurting anyone.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 12:52:58 PM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977C6EFFEB5C2wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
Yeah, what's wrong with any self delusion? Unfortunately, religion has
been a greater force of evil, hatred, wars,... than it has been for
getting people to "get by" and not hurting anyone.
That's debatable. People don't need religion to act in an awful way.
People naturally rally around the totems of the tribe and will attack each
other in its name.
But that there is religion is a fact of life and not something that
humankind is likely to give up any time soon.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 09:44:17 PM |
|
|
"gibbs" <gib459@fakedemailaddress.edu> wrote in
news:BrydnXfyQf7Jf5TZRVn-sQ@comcast.com:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977C6EFFEB5C2wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
Yeah, what's wrong with any self delusion? Unfortunately, religion
has been a greater force of evil, hatred, wars,... than it has been
for getting people to "get by" and not hurting anyone.
That's debatable. People don't need religion to act in an awful way.
People naturally rally around the totems of the tribe and will attack
each other in its name.
But that there is religion is a fact of life and not something that
humankind is likely to give up any time soon.
Unfortunately
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 10:28:18 PM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977CE766A1F88wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
Unfortunately
Yet, religion is respectable if it doesn't justify hurting someone else. No
doubt you know plenty of people who are religious and are quite kind to
other people. They may even be very good to others and inspired to help
others above and beyond what they might otherwise do. Some, like Martin
Luther King, Gandhi, Desmond Tutu, John Paul, Mother Teresa, and so on, go
on to do great things.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 10:59:33 PM |
|
|
"gibbs" <gib459@fakedemailaddress.edu> wrote in
news:J6SdnTXaHKB69ZfZnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977CE766A1F88wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
Unfortunately
Yet, religion is respectable if it doesn't justify hurting someone
else. No doubt you know plenty of people who are religious and are
quite kind to other people. They may even be very good to others and
inspired to help others above and beyond what they might otherwise do.
Some, like Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Desmond Tutu, John Paul,
Mother Teresa, and so on, go on to do great things.
Respectable?
People can be "good" to others and help others without religion. So that
hardly qualifies as a reason to continue with the evils that religious
deception and delusion bring along.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
05 Mar 2006 07:41:13 AM |
|
|
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977D11C9B65wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
People can be "good" to others and help others without religion. So that
hardly qualifies as a reason to continue with the evils that religious
deception and delusion bring along.
I certainly agree that people can be good to others without religion, though
I doubt that eradicating religion would fundamentally change people. There
would still be evils, deception, and delusion, perhaps along the line of
nationalism, tribalism, or whatever people want to use to separate
themselves from others.
We don't need a world without religion as much as we need a world where
tolerance and democracy are widely held virtues.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
05 Mar 2006 05:27:40 PM |
|
|
"gibbs" <gib459@fakedemailaddress.edu> wrote in
news:BtadnWKhVrUad5fZnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977D11C9B65wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
People can be "good" to others and help others without religion. So
that hardly qualifies as a reason to continue with the evils that
religious deception and delusion bring along.
I certainly agree that people can be good to others without religion,
though I doubt that eradicating religion would fundamentally change
people. There would still be evils, deception, and delusion, perhaps
along the line of nationalism, tribalism, or whatever people want to
use to separate themselves from others.
We don't need a world without religion as much as we need a world
where tolerance and democracy are widely held virtues.
Which aren't religious fundamentals in any religion that I am familiar
with.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
05 Mar 2006 08:48:12 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006 08:41:13 -0500, "gibbs"
<gib459@fakedemailaddress.edu> wrote:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977D11C9B65wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
People can be "good" to others and help others without religion. So that
hardly qualifies as a reason to continue with the evils that religious
deception and delusion bring along.
I certainly agree that people can be good to others without religion, though
I doubt that eradicating religion would fundamentally change people. There
would still be evils, deception, and delusion, perhaps along the line of
nationalism, tribalism, or whatever people want to use to separate
themselves from others.
We don't need a world without religion as much as we need a world where
tolerance and democracy are widely held virtues.
Most people are passive tolerant. Live and let live.
However they don't put up with slander or the imposition of somebody
else's religion by fair means of foul.
Evangelicals and fundamentalists can't live and let live. People react
to that, even mainstream Christians of various denominations.
Part of the problem is that evangelical fundamentalism includes "the
great commission" to tell everybody about it even if they're not
interested, and gives them derogatory "reasons" why they get rejected
that amount to slanderous falsehoods.
They even accuse those who react negatively, especially to the
"reasons" of being intolerant and anti-Christian - when it's simply
the natural human reaction to their own intolerance of beliefs other
than their own.
.
|
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
05 Mar 2006 09:46:30 AM |
|
|
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:j1ul02hb1drmhpmgqgqi75b8homf3r8f92@4ax.com...
Evangelicals and fundamentalists can't live and let live.
Ignore them, they're idiots if they do that.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 07:45:21 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 08:23:03 -0500, "gibbs"
<gib459@fakedemailaddress.edu> wrote:
"Woden" <woden@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns977BF091F3D58wodencharternet@69.28.186.121...
But has religion ever answered any of these "most important questions"?
(Although I suspect that what makes these "most important" is purely
subjective anyway.)
For people who take religion seriously, and those that take science as a
religion, it is answering those questions right now. In particular: what
should I do? who am I? why are we here? where did we come from? what is
to be done by all of us? and so on.
Nobody "takes science as a religion", moron.
And why do you imagine your metaphysical questions have any relevance
outside your religion?
.
|
|
|
| User: "gibbs" |
|
| Title: Re: Acorns were good until bread was found |
04 Mar 2006 08:57:22 AM |
|
|
"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ld6j02t2b06jd7vm2f5jpvjqskmemkiqve@4ax.com...
Nobody "takes science as a religion", moron.
And why do you imagine your metaphysical questions have any relevance
outside your religion?
First, nice day to you, too. Second, there are people who push "scientism"
beyond just being a reductionist philosophy to a religious point of view.
As I know people who look at science as a basis for their religious ideas
(they also happen to be Unitarian Universalists, as I am, which a wise open
religion that includes nonbelievers, skeptics, and others), your comment
"nobody 'takes science as a religion'" is false.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
